Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: 1 ... 87 88 [89]  All

Author Topic: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)  (Read 101610 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Swowl

  • Pawn
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1
  • Shuffle iT Username: Swowl
  • Snow.Owl.Duh.
    • View Profile
Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
« Reply #2200 on: October 21, 2021, 11:10:31 pm »

Welp, that sure went sideways for our team. Oh well, scum with Swowl and Math was still loads of fun.

As you can see in the scum QT, Swowl never intended to fakeclaim cop or do any kind of breadcrumb. It was my intention to fakeclaim an innocent result on Mathdude. I breadcrumbed it a few times when I was arguing with MiX about his changed read on Math.

But when we went into D3, there was a guilty result on me, and then faust made his argument that Swowl was IC for breadcrumbing a result on EFHW,  I thought we just need to roll with this. So by claiming VT, I was attempting to pass the PR claim over to Swowl. Of course Swowl was seeing (correctly) that there was no room for another 1-shot cop, and I was seeing it incorrectly that there was still room. So if I had known that, I probably would have went ahead and claimed 1-shot cop because I was in a 1v1 anyway.

Yeah I mean it was obv never actually meant to be a crumb, so that was frustrating lol. Then I tried to leverage it when faust brought it up and that was frustrating because it didn't pan out after the claim. And then I got in my own head and thought someone was fake claiming VT and was gonna set me up or something. Problem was claiming full cop was the only option for cop, and there would just literally no reason for me to be alive the next day if I did.

So yeah. I played not great and also just frustration on ever corner, but it was still a fun game.
Logged
Jesus how did i fuck that up
real good. Thatís how
Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
Skum: 7 wins, 7 losses (1 MVP)
3-Party: 4 wins, 1 loss

faust

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3209
  • Shuffle iT Username: faust
    • View Profile
Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
« Reply #2201 on: October 22, 2021, 04:00:09 am »

I'm curious, if it was not a crumb, then what was that EFHW read about?
Logged
The quiet comprehending of the ending of it all

faust

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3209
  • Shuffle iT Username: faust
    • View Profile
Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
« Reply #2202 on: October 22, 2021, 04:05:26 am »

I'm going to be honest, I'm so glad town won so that being gimped by my interpretation of the EE roll didn't cost them... Turns out all you need is a 1-shot cop to turn the tide lol

Agreed that town missed a PR because of the EE roll. They should have had another 1-shot cop or 1-shot doc.

But I do think it actually cost us, as scum, even worse. We expected T or TT based on our roles. So we figured 4 or 5 PRs (something like full cop is equivalent to 2). When only 3 came up in massclaim (ECM), I expected a hidden UB, that e was full cop, or someone else who lied. Because of that, I pushed for it, said more than I otherwise would have, and got caught partly because of things I said - and that was my mistake. That's also why I had to ask for setup clarification publicly, to start justifying why I said the things I did and setup how and when I would add my fake-claim (from the moment iguana didn't claim cop, I started planning the claim that I ended up making too late).

Overall, still a good game. I just wish e had actually been a full cop... then ECCMTT would have made sense.

Yeah, the benefit of having say extra Cop shots is an increased likelihood of getting a guilty result. The fact that we got one from our only shot means that we really weren't hurt by it.
I don't agree. Cop results are still valuable even if they're innocent results. Having another IC in this game would have done a lot for us. (Obviously there's Godfather, so innocent results are slightly worse, but still good.)

But I also think it's hard to play when your information doesn't match the public information and you can't talk about it. I'm not sure who was worse off there.
Logged
The quiet comprehending of the ending of it all

MiX

  • Navigator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 77
  • Shuffle iT Username: MiX
  • It's me.
    • View Profile
Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
« Reply #2203 on: October 22, 2021, 04:12:42 am »

I'm curious, if it was not a crumb, then what was that EFHW read about?

Scum being scum?

I'm going to be honest, I'm so glad town won so that being gimped by my interpretation of the EE roll didn't cost them... Turns out all you need is a 1-shot cop to turn the tide lol

Agreed that town missed a PR because of the EE roll. They should have had another 1-shot cop or 1-shot doc.

But I do think it actually cost us, as scum, even worse. We expected T or TT based on our roles. So we figured 4 or 5 PRs (something like full cop is equivalent to 2). When only 3 came up in massclaim (ECM), I expected a hidden UB, that e was full cop, or someone else who lied. Because of that, I pushed for it, said more than I otherwise would have, and got caught partly because of things I said - and that was my mistake. That's also why I had to ask for setup clarification publicly, to start justifying why I said the things I did and setup how and when I would add my fake-claim (from the moment iguana didn't claim cop, I started planning the claim that I ended up making too late).

Overall, still a good game. I just wish e had actually been a full cop... then ECCMTT would have made sense.

Yeah, the benefit of having say extra Cop shots is an increased likelihood of getting a guilty result. The fact that we got one from our only shot means that we really weren't hurt by it.
I don't agree. Cop results are still valuable even if they're innocent results. Having another IC in this game would have done a lot for us. (Obviously there's Godfather, so innocent results are slightly worse, but still good.)

But I also think it's hard to play when your information doesn't match the public information and you can't talk about it. I'm not sure who was worse off there.

An extra PR would've been bad for scum, but an IC or full cop would've been fine, which would amount to be better...

Overall I think it cancels each other out.
Logged

faust

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3209
  • Shuffle iT Username: faust
    • View Profile
Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
« Reply #2204 on: October 22, 2021, 04:18:11 am »

I think this highlights some issues with the setup. The way Dylan interpreted the setup was clearly unbalanced, but it's not like the intended interpretation was balanced either. 2 1-shot Docs are clearly a lot worse than 2 1-shot Cops.

This, and the Masons don't work. When town gets more PRs, the idea is that scum gets more powers to counter them. But there is no counter to Masons.
Logged
The quiet comprehending of the ending of it all

Jimmmmm

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1762
  • Shuffle iT Username: Jimmmmm
    • View Profile
Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
« Reply #2205 on: October 22, 2021, 04:19:41 am »

I don't agree. Cop results are still valuable even if they're innocent results. Having another IC in this game would have done a lot for us. (Obviously there's Godfather, so innocent results are slightly worse, but still good.)

I feel like because there's a Godfather (who happened to be exiled last), innocent result are often not worth that much. I guess it makes them more likely to be Town because there's only 1 scum they can be, but without a Godfather flip they don't create ICs.
Logged

Jimmmmm

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1762
  • Shuffle iT Username: Jimmmmm
    • View Profile
Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
« Reply #2206 on: October 22, 2021, 04:28:23 am »

I think this highlights some issues with the setup. The way Dylan interpreted the setup was clearly unbalanced, but it's not like the intended interpretation was balanced either. 2 1-shot Docs are clearly a lot worse than 2 1-shot Cops.

There's clearly a fair bit of intended balance variance in the setup. Eg between TT and T Town gets an extra PR and scum gets nothing. I guess it comes down to your personal balance variance thresholds. Maybe it would be better if E was full Doctor OR 1-Shot Cop.
Logged

Jimmmmm

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1762
  • Shuffle iT Username: Jimmmmm
    • View Profile
Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
« Reply #2207 on: October 22, 2021, 04:32:10 am »

Unrelated thought: I think with Doctors (particularly 1-Shot), it's better early on to be at an even number to give them a chance to bring us back up to odd. Which means the no-exile was particularly bad, in theory at least.
Logged

faust

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3209
  • Shuffle iT Username: faust
    • View Profile
Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
« Reply #2208 on: October 22, 2021, 04:37:19 am »

I think this highlights some issues with the setup. The way Dylan interpreted the setup was clearly unbalanced, but it's not like the intended interpretation was balanced either. 2 1-shot Docs are clearly a lot worse than 2 1-shot Cops.

There's clearly a fair bit of intended balance variance in the setup. Eg between TT and T Town gets an extra PR and scum gets nothing. I guess it comes down to your personal balance variance thresholds. Maybe it would be better if E was full Doctor OR 1-Shot Cop.
But that sort of defeats the purpose of the E category; I think the main reason for including it was to make the game less solvable, so you couldn't say e.g. "we know a 1-shot Doc flipped, so there must also be a full Doc".

I think variance is fine, clearly I'm fine with this setup or I would not have played. That doesn't mean there aren't improvements to be made. (I'm also biased because I did my own take on a setup like this.)
Logged
The quiet comprehending of the ending of it all

Jimmmmm

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1762
  • Shuffle iT Username: Jimmmmm
    • View Profile
Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
« Reply #2209 on: October 22, 2021, 04:41:18 am »

I just realised that Swowl himself was the scum he was arguing caused the no-exile (with some help from MiX of course).
Logged

faust

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3209
  • Shuffle iT Username: faust
    • View Profile
Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
« Reply #2210 on: October 22, 2021, 04:42:54 am »

Unrelated thought: I think with Doctors (particularly 1-Shot), it's better early on to be at an even number to give them a chance to bring us back up to odd. Which means the no-exile was particularly bad, in theory at least.
In general, I'd agree. In this setup, it seems pretty hard for a Doctor to successfully prevent a kill. And of course, there's no guarantee that a Doctor exists in the first place.
Logged
The quiet comprehending of the ending of it all

Dylan32

  • Young Witch
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 132
  • Shuffle iT Username: Dylan32
    • View Profile
Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
« Reply #2211 on: October 22, 2021, 04:46:45 am »

I think this highlights some issues with the setup. The way Dylan interpreted the setup was clearly unbalanced, but it's not like the intended interpretation was balanced either. 2 1-shot Docs are clearly a lot worse than 2 1-shot Cops.

This, and the Masons don't work. When town gets more PRs, the idea is that scum gets more powers to counter them. But there is no counter to Masons.

So I clearly didn't think through the lack of town PRs in terms of my interpretation of EE, but I do remember having a moment where I thought to myself, "Man scum has a lot of firepower that really isn't going to be of much use at all with these rolls."
Logged
Forum Mafia Record - Wins: 14 - NM9, M97, RMM41, M99, M102, M104, M119, M126, RMM56, M133, M134, RMM58, RMM59, RMM61, RMM60; Losses 15 - RMM37, M89, M94, M95, M96, M100, RMM47 M109, M110, M120, M127, M129, M131, M132, M136; MVPs: 1 - NM9

Jimmmmm

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1762
  • Shuffle iT Username: Jimmmmm
    • View Profile
Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
« Reply #2212 on: October 22, 2021, 04:55:20 am »

Unrelated thought: I think with Doctors (particularly 1-Shot), it's better early on to be at an even number to give them a chance to bring us back up to odd. Which means the no-exile was particularly bad, in theory at least.
In general, I'd agree. In this setup, it seems pretty hard for a Doctor to successfully prevent a kill. And of course, there's no guarantee that a Doctor exists in the first place.

It's hard because of the Strongman? Yeah I guess Doctors are pretty weak here in general, but I feel like they're basically useless if we're odd. Of course there are no guarantees, but I think the extra difficulty exiling with an even number is well worth the chance of a Doctor giving us an extra exile.

Maybe the possibility of Trackers would strengthen Doctors a bit.
Logged

MiX

  • Navigator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 77
  • Shuffle iT Username: MiX
  • It's me.
    • View Profile
Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
« Reply #2213 on: October 22, 2021, 05:30:09 am »

Unrelated thought: I think with Doctors (particularly 1-Shot), it's better early on to be at an even number to give them a chance to bring us back up to odd. Which means the no-exile was particularly bad, in theory at least.

No exile is always bad, but it's much worse in an odd start game.

I still stand by math only flipping scum D1 if scum wanted him to, given Swowl was the deciding vote :P
Logged

Jimmmmm

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1762
  • Shuffle iT Username: Jimmmmm
    • View Profile
Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
« Reply #2214 on: October 22, 2021, 05:47:40 am »

No exile is always bad, but it's much worse in an odd start game.

You're right of course; 13 is far better than 12. But I'm suggesting that 12 is a fair bit better than 11 because of the chance that we'll still be 11 on Day 2 (or etc down the line).
Logged

MiX

  • Navigator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 77
  • Shuffle iT Username: MiX
  • It's me.
    • View Profile
Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
« Reply #2215 on: October 22, 2021, 06:17:24 am »

No exile is always bad, but it's much worse in an odd start game.

You're right of course; 13 is far better than 12. But I'm suggesting that 12 is a fair bit better than 11 because of the chance that we'll still be 11 on Day 2 (or etc down the line).

Yeah, and that's one of my favorite things about this setup: a correct doc's great, and vigs can shoot once with little downside.
Logged

Jimmmmm

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1762
  • Shuffle iT Username: Jimmmmm
    • View Profile
Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
« Reply #2216 on: October 22, 2021, 06:29:10 am »

Yeah, that's a point as well. Even is great for Docs and Vigs.
Logged

EFHW

  • Navigator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 79
  • Shuffle iT Username: EFHW
  • EFHW="ee-foo". Really, how else would you say it?
    • View Profile
Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
« Reply #2217 on: October 22, 2021, 08:25:29 am »

Thanks for the game Dylan!
Logged

Jimmmmm

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1762
  • Shuffle iT Username: Jimmmmm
    • View Profile
Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
« Reply #2218 on: October 22, 2021, 08:31:09 am »

EFHW! Despite the fact that it wrong, and I don't think I would do what you were arguing as scum, I really liked your case on me. I thought it was easily the best Day 1 case and was a bit surprised you didn't push it further.
Logged

EFHW

  • Navigator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 79
  • Shuffle iT Username: EFHW
  • EFHW="ee-foo". Really, how else would you say it?
    • View Profile
Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
« Reply #2219 on: October 22, 2021, 09:02:11 am »

EFHW! Despite the fact that it wrong, and I don't think I would do what you were arguing as scum, I really liked your case on me. I thought it was easily the best Day 1 case and was a bit surprised you didn't push it further.

Thanks Jimmmmm! Once town had decided you were town, I had to wait for more indications, though I didn't think I would get any, either way. And I didn't, of course!
Logged

Swowl

  • Pawn
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1
  • Shuffle iT Username: Swowl
  • Snow.Owl.Duh.
    • View Profile
Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
« Reply #2220 on: October 22, 2021, 03:09:33 pm »

I'm curious, if it was not a crumb, then what was that EFHW read about?

I was behind on day 1 because VLA, when I came back at night I isoed out players and ended up thinking "yeah Idk what I was thinking, I would not ever push EFHW here as town"
Logged
Jesus how did i fuck that up
real good. Thatís how
Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
Skum: 7 wins, 7 losses (1 MVP)
3-Party: 4 wins, 1 loss

gkrieg13

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 509
  • Shuffle iT Username: gkrieg
    • View Profile
Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
« Reply #2221 on: October 22, 2021, 03:11:05 pm »

Good game!
Logged

WestCoastDidds

  • Ambassador
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 33
  • Shuffle iT Username: WestCoastDidds
  • Didds, ya'll
    • View Profile
Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
« Reply #2222 on: November 25, 2021, 10:18:50 am »

Happy Thanksgiving everyone!! I miss you all!
Logged
classic Diddsian meddling
I never got to read what Didds said, but whatever she's saying, she's right.
Pages: 1 ... 87 88 [89]  All
 

Page created in 0.152 seconds with 20 queries.