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Author Topic: Weekly Design Contest 123: Duration? Are You Sure?  (Read 4463 times)

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AJL828

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Weekly Design Contest 123: Duration? Are You Sure?
« on: July 27, 2021, 11:27:54 am »
+11

First we had a contest on Durations that stayed in play forever. Then we had a contest on durations that stayed in play for more than 2 turns, but not forever. What's the logical follow-up to this?
Oh, I know...

Weekly Design Contest 123: Duration? Are You Sure?

Your task: Design a Kingdom Duration card that gives the player a choice of whether to keep it out an extra turn or not.

Official cards that do this include: Barge, Cargo Ship, Gear, and Secret Cave.

Other official cards (such as Haven) technically can stay out for only 1 turn, but this isn't really by choice when it happens. A card like Haven would not qualify for this week's contest.

Submission Deadline: I will close submissions on Tuesday Aug 3, at 9 PM EST, then judging will be posted about 24 hours or so after that.

Don't hesitate to ask if you have any questions! If I feel something doesn't qualify I'll make sure to let you know in advance!
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anordinaryman

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Re: Weekly Design Contest 123: Duration? Are You Sure?
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2021, 02:15:19 pm »
+6



Quote
Skipper | Action - Duration | $5
You may play an Action card from your hand.
Choose one: play it again, or set it aside and play it at the start of your next turn.
-
This is gained to your deck (instead of your Discard pile)

It doesn't stay in play if you choose to Throne Room this turn. I'm considering getting rid of the top-deck gain as that can be powerful, but I think it's fun and not too powerful.

This runs into all the issues with "play it again" (instead of twice) but I think that's the best way to do this card. I'm open to different opinions and any feedback.

Thanks!

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segura

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Re: Weekly Design Contest 123: Duration? Are You Sure?
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2021, 02:30:18 pm »
0

DXV tested this very delayed Throne Room for Seaside and considered it incredibly weak.
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Gubump

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Re: Weekly Design Contest 123: Duration? Are You Sure?
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2021, 03:00:55 pm »
+2

DXV tested this very delayed Throne Room for Seaside and considered it incredibly weak.

It wasn't a choice between regular Throne Room and delayed Throne Room, though. This has to cost due to being strictly better than Throne Room. Although I agree that it may be too weak for (and thus unpriceable).
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Re: Weekly Design Contest 123: Duration? Are You Sure?
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2021, 03:08:58 pm »
+2

DXV tested this very delayed Throne Room for Seaside and considered it incredibly weak.

It wasn't a choice between regular Throne Room and delayed Throne Room, though. This has to cost due to being strictly better than Throne Room. Although I agree that it may be too weak for (and thus unpriceable).
I don't think it's too weak. Crown sees plenty of play and this is arguably a better Throne Room+ effect.
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segura

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Re: Weekly Design Contest 123: Duration? Are You Sure?
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2021, 03:20:54 pm »
0

DXV tested this very delayed Throne Room for Seaside and considered it incredibly weak.

It wasn't a choice between regular Throne Room and delayed Throne Room, though. This has to cost due to being strictly better than Throne Room. Although I agree that it may be too weak for (and thus unpriceable).
Sure, it is strictly better, that is trivially technically true.
But if the extra option is virtually always far weaker than the main option, you don't do this very $4.1 card.

People would a card for $4 that reads "+1 Card +2 Actions, If you got precisely 7 cards in play, +1 Coin" just because they need a village just like they would buy Skipper just becase they need a Throne. Doesn't mean that either card is balanced.
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X-tra

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Re: Weekly Design Contest 123: Duration? Are You Sure?
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2021, 03:48:09 pm »
+2



Regardless of the power level (I too think it is on the weaker side; although the gain on top of your deck is nice), this should say "This is gained onto your deck", to mirror the wording of Nomad Camp.

It should probably exclude Duration cards from being Throned. It gets all weird if you replay it next turn, as it does its Duration effect and it's on-play effect on the same turn, and will do its Duration effect another turn after that. Skipper likewise would stay out an extra turn. Tracking could potentially be a nightmare.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2021, 03:49:51 pm by X-tra »
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Timinou

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Re: Weekly Design Contest 123: Duration? Are You Sure?
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2021, 04:27:46 pm »
0

Revised entry:


Earlier versions:


Novice is a Duration-Draw version of Apprentice.  I added a slight on-gain buff since it otherwise seemed on the weaker side of $5.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2021, 05:11:49 pm by Timinou »
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Re: Weekly Design Contest 123: Duration? Are You Sure?
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2021, 04:45:10 pm »
0

Withdrawing this

Quote
Salvage • $4 • Treasure
Choose one: +$1; or trash a card costing $2 or more from your hand, and at the start of your next turn, +$1 per copy of that card in the trash.

tortured wording on that second clause to work around the possibility of a) counterfeiting this and b) trying to do the trashing from a hand full of coppers, yknow what, if you wanna make tracking a headache for yourself via counterfeit, that's on you. It's phrased in that order rather than the more typical "you may trash a card from your hand, if it cost...otherwise..." because the otherwise it seemed to imply you'd get the +$1 next turn.

Cares about the number of trashed cards in the trash at the start of your 2nd turn, so there may be a tempo-deterrent effect for later players to avoid giving free dollars.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2021, 10:23:22 am by spineflu »
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Gubump

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Re: Weekly Design Contest 123: Duration? Are You Sure?
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2021, 04:47:38 pm »
+2



Novice is a Duration-Draw version of Apprentice.  I added a slight on-gain buff since it otherwise seemed on the weaker side of $5.

1. This could almost certainly stand to be unconditionally non-terminal. As it currently is, it compares really poorly to Research, which costs less. And it would honestly still compare poorly to Apprentice. Being able to play it on-gain is not nearly enough to offset the drawbacks of being Duration draw rather than regular draw.

2. This has difficult-to-track issues. You have to remember what you trashed for an entire round of play. That's why Research sets aside cards, to track how many cards you're supposed to draw next turn. Ofc, this approach would make it a lot weaker (by making you unable to draw the set-aside cards and thus unable to draw deck this turn), to the point of being strictly worse (identical if you take my advice in #1) than Research on-play.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2021, 05:05:05 pm by Gubump »
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emtzalex

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Re: Weekly Design Contest 123: Duration? Are You Sure?
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2021, 05:25:32 pm »
0


Quote
Salvage • $4 • Treasure
Choose one: +$1; or You may trash a card costing $2 or more from your hand, and at the start of your next turn, if this is still in play, +$1 per copy of that card in the trash.

tortured wording on that second clause to work around the possibility of a) counterfeiting this and b) trying to do the trashing from a hand full of coppers, and phrased in that order rather than the more typical "you may trash a card from your hand, if it cost...otherwise..." because the otherwise it seemed to imply you'd get the +$1 next turn.

Cares about the number of trashed cards in the trash at the start of your 2nd turn, so there may be a tempo-deterrent effect for later players to avoid giving free dollars.

I don't think you need "You may" for the second option, as the player can almost always just choose the first. If you keep it, it should not be capitalized.

I also don't know that you need to design around using Counterfeit. If there were any official Treasure-Durations, it would probably be errata'ed to say non-Duration, but for now it works the same as if you Crowned it and then used Bonfire to trash it (alternatively, when using it you could just presume the errata on Counterfeit).
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Re: Weekly Design Contest 123: Duration? Are You Sure?
« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2021, 05:44:34 pm »
+9



The color scheme is not perfect.
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Timinou

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Re: Weekly Design Contest 123: Duration? Are You Sure?
« Reply #12 on: July 27, 2021, 06:36:32 pm »
0



Novice is a Duration-Draw version of Apprentice.  I added a slight on-gain buff since it otherwise seemed on the weaker side of $5.

1. This could almost certainly stand to be unconditionally non-terminal. As it currently is, it compares really poorly to Research, which costs less. And it would honestly still compare poorly to Apprentice. Being able to play it on-gain is not nearly enough to offset the drawbacks of being Duration draw rather than regular draw.

2. This has difficult-to-track issues. You have to remember what you trashed for an entire round of play. That's why Research sets aside cards, to track how many cards you're supposed to draw next turn. Ofc, this approach would make it a lot weaker (by making you unable to draw the set-aside cards and thus unable to draw deck this turn), to the point of being strictly worse (identical if you take my advice in #1) than Research on-play.

You’re right.  This would have tracking issues and it doesn’t compare well to Research (setting aside cards can actually be helpful for cycling, so it’s not always a bad thing early in the game).  I’ll have to revamp it.
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emtzalex

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Re: Weekly Design Contest 123: Duration? Are You Sure?
« Reply #13 on: July 27, 2021, 07:25:38 pm »
+8

My Submission:


Quote from: Investment
INVESTMENT    $5
TREASURE - DURATION
+1 Buy
Choose one: +$2; or, at the start of your next turn, +1 Buy and +$3.
                                                                                               

It's worth more if you let it mature.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest 123: Duration? Are You Sure?
« Reply #14 on: July 28, 2021, 12:15:26 am »
+4



Here's my entry this week. Sentinel is a cheap Night-Duration sifter/next turn set up card, granting you a double City Gate-like ability (or Secret Chamber reaction, remember that card) either during this Night phase or at the start of your next turn. +Cards at Night is a little awkward sometimes, but you can save your best two leftover cards for next turn (especially nice for dead-drawn Actions) while potentially sifting some junk out of your next hand. Using it at the start of next turn can help prevent duds and activate cards that care about the top of your deck (e.g. Wishing Well, Ironmonger, Chariot Race, etc.). Both options should see usage.

P.S. I was moments away from posting a nearly identical card to emtzalex (mine didn't have the on-play +Buy, but was otherwise the same, including the name!). Great minds I guess.
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Gubump

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Re: Weekly Design Contest 123: Duration? Are You Sure?
« Reply #15 on: July 28, 2021, 12:21:16 am »
+1



Here's my entry this week. Sentinel is a cheap Night-Duration sifter/next turn set up card, granting you a double City Gate-like ability (or Secret Chamber reaction, remember that card) either during this Night phase or at the start of your next turn. +Cards at Night is a little awkward sometimes, but you can save your best two leftover cards for next turn (especially nice for dead-drawn Actions) while potentially sifting some junk out of your next hand. Using it at the start of next turn can help prevent duds and activate cards that care about the top of your deck (e.g. Wishing Well, Ironmonger, Chariot Race, etc.). Both options should see usage.

P.S. I was moments away from posting a nearly identical card to emtzalex (mine didn't have the on-play +Buy, but was otherwise the same, including the name!). Great minds I guess.

Just an FYI, a card with the same name won a recent contest (contest 118, specifically)--in fact, coincidentally, the creator of said card is the current judge--so you may want to change the name.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest 123: Duration? Are You Sure?
« Reply #16 on: July 28, 2021, 12:46:03 am »
0

My Submission:


Just in case you haven't heard about this, the whole setting-aside bit that Innovation and Summon use is unnecessary because of the following errata:

I'm changing the rules for playing a card you can't physically put into play. The new rule is, you can't! Wait: except, Thrones still get to play cards a 2nd time that went into play the first time but then vanished (I would like to kill this, but players are too attached to it). This rule as phrased by Ingix:

"An effect that tries to play a card for the first time can only do so when the card is where the effect expects it to be. If it can play it the first time, subsequent plays will also work.".
(I.e. Stop-Moving now prevents Harbor from being played if it's moved to somewhere it doesn't expect itself to be.)
« Last Edit: July 29, 2021, 01:20:29 am by Gubump »
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Gubump

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Re: Weekly Design Contest 123: Duration? Are You Sure?
« Reply #17 on: July 28, 2021, 01:12:53 am »
0


Quote
Salvage • $4 • Treasure
Choose one: +$1; or You may trash a card costing $2 or more from your hand, and at the start of your next turn, if this is still in play, +$1 per copy of that card in the trash.

tortured wording on that second clause to work around the possibility of a) counterfeiting this and b) trying to do the trashing from a hand full of coppers, and phrased in that order rather than the more typical "you may trash a card from your hand, if it cost...otherwise..." because the otherwise it seemed to imply you'd get the +$1 next turn.

Cares about the number of trashed cards in the trash at the start of your 2nd turn, so there may be a tempo-deterrent effect for later players to avoid giving free dollars.

I don't think you need "You may" for the second option, as the player can almost always just choose the first. If you keep it, it should not be capitalized.

I also don't know that you need to design around using Counterfeit. If there were any official Treasure-Durations, it would probably be errata'ed to say non-Duration, but for now it works the same as if you Crowned it and then used Bonfire to trash it (alternatively, when using it you could just presume the errata on Counterfeit).

I agree with the 2nd point (I also think Procession didn't need the "no longer works on Durations" errata), but I think it's problematic to have an option lack accountability, even if you could always just choose one of the other options. I have the same gripe with Treasurer and Graverobber.
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JW

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Re: Weekly Design Contest 123: Duration? Are You Sure?
« Reply #18 on: July 28, 2021, 01:30:59 am »
0

Tabernacle
$2
Action - Duration
Now, or at the start of your next turn, you may trash a card from your hand for +1 Card.


Original:
Untitled Trashing Project
$3
Action - Duration
Now, or at the start of your next turn, trash a card from your hand for +1 Card.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2021, 06:06:01 pm by JW »
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mandioca15

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Re: Weekly Design Contest 123: Duration? Are You Sure?
« Reply #19 on: July 28, 2021, 02:40:55 am »
+1

Capstan (Action-Duration, $4)

+1 Card
+1 Action
Discard any number of cards. At the start of your next turn, draw that many cards.

Effectively, this is a mini-Tactician, without the buys.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest 123: Duration? Are You Sure?
« Reply #20 on: July 28, 2021, 03:03:41 am »
+1



Rules clarification: The card stays in play until the next time any player plays an Action, which might be on your turn, another player's turn, your next turn, the turn after that, etc. Once a player plays an Action, you gain a copy of it (if you can). Then you discard it from play during that turn's clean up phase (as it has completed all of its effects).
« Last Edit: July 28, 2021, 06:49:12 am by NoMoreFun »
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Re: Weekly Design Contest 123: Duration? Are You Sure?
« Reply #21 on: July 28, 2021, 04:23:02 am »
0

DXV tested this very delayed Throne Room for Seaside and considered it incredibly weak.

Its gained onto your deck which is a pretty big difference i think. I think being a bit weak is ok
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Re: Weekly Design Contest 123: Duration? Are You Sure?
« Reply #22 on: July 28, 2021, 04:42:36 am »
+1

Refit
Action - Duration $5

Choose one: Trash a card from your hand and gain a card costing up to $2 more than it; or at the start of your next turn trash a card from your hand and gain a card costing up to $3 more than it.


Notes
- There currently isn't a duration card that is a member of the remodel family. That is where I have decided to go with this week's competition.
- Choosing to trash on your next turn is riskier as you often will not know what cards will be in your hand. To compensate for this the rewards have to be higher if you choose to do this.
- I decided to go for a card that is a choice of Remodel now or Expand at the start of your next turn. As this is strictly better than Remodel is has to cost more than $4.
- I think there could be some interesting synergies with cards that allow you to know what is in your next hand or set up your next hand.
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Timinou

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Re: Weekly Design Contest 123: Duration? Are You Sure?
« Reply #23 on: July 28, 2021, 07:14:22 am »
0



Rules clarification: The card stays in play until the next time any player plays an Action, which might be on your turn, another player's turn, your next turn, the turn after that, etc. Once a player plays an Action, you gain a copy of it (if you can). Then you discard it from play during that turn's clean up phase (as it has completed all of its effects).

What happens when the next Action card played is a non-supply card?
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spineflu

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Re: Weekly Design Contest 123: Duration? Are You Sure?
« Reply #24 on: July 28, 2021, 07:25:43 am »
0



Rules clarification: The card stays in play until the next time any player plays an Action, which might be on your turn, another player's turn, your next turn, the turn after that, etc. Once a player plays an Action, you gain a copy of it (if you can). Then you discard it from play during that turn's clean up phase (as it has completed all of its effects).

What happens when the next Action card played is a non-supply card?
As phrased, this would try (and fail) to gain a copy of it, and get discarded that turn.




Quote
Salvage • $4 • Treasure
Choose one: +$1; or You may trash a card costing $2 or more from your hand, and at the start of your next turn, if this is still in play, +$1 per copy of that card in the trash.

tortured wording on that second clause to work around the possibility of a) counterfeiting this and b) trying to do the trashing from a hand full of coppers, and phrased in that order rather than the more typical "you may trash a card from your hand, if it cost...otherwise..." because the otherwise it seemed to imply you'd get the +$1 next turn.

Cares about the number of trashed cards in the trash at the start of your 2nd turn, so there may be a tempo-deterrent effect for later players to avoid giving free dollars.

I don't think you need "You may" for the second option, as the player can almost always just choose the first. If you keep it, it should not be capitalized.

I also don't know that you need to design around using Counterfeit. If there were any official Treasure-Durations, it would probably be errata'ed to say non-Duration, but for now it works the same as if you Crowned it and then used Bonfire to trash it (alternatively, when using it you could just presume the errata on Counterfeit).

I mean, yeah, but neither assertion is really hurting the card.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2021, 08:54:44 am by spineflu »
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