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[KrIcE91]

With the addition of Menagerie, I have noticed that a certain type of card plays differently—the reaction card. This might be a bug report and less of a question about how the game works. Bottom line up front, some reaction cards do not activate on draw even if their condition/rule is met on the online client. Is this a client bug or should the cards be reworded?

With the addition of menagerie, there are reaction cards that allow you to draw cards, which can allow you to chain cards that continue to allow you to draw cards. For example, sheepdog on gaining a card can be played to draw a sheepdog and repeat, just as black cat with curses. This is possible in earlier editions as well with Caravan Guard.

Ignoring menagerie reactions and caravan guard, I noticed that other reaction cards do not operate the same. For example, if your opponent plays an attack card that forces you to draw a card (I discovered this with Margrave on the board) and you draw a reaction card (for me it was horse traders), you are not given the option to do the reaction portion of horse traders.

“when another player plays an attack card…” of horse traders should be met even if the attack card forced you to draw a card, but it isn’t. I believe this is a bug (or am asking for guidance) because the language of black cat or sheepdog are virtually similar “when another player gains a Victory Card,” (black cat) or “when you gain a card,”.

I had this experience happen with Margrave and horse traders…I haven’t looked at all the cards and tested other possibilities, but I did a quick glance to see if this was replicable with other attack cards and reaction cards.

I imagine Diplomat, Horse Traders, Beggar, and Secret Chamber should all operate as black cat/sheepdog does if the opponent’s previous action is sufficient. Am I reading something wrong?

Additionally, I believe if an opponent plays Soothsayer, I gain a curse, and I draw watchtower that I should be able to use the reaction portion of watchtower on the gained curse. For the same reasons as sheepdog/black cat, the “when you gain a card” is still met even though you later drew the card.

I am just a nerd that fell in love with this game and I am the rules gatekeeper for my friend group when we play with the actual cards. Would appreciate understanding how this is intended.

[Jack Rudd]

So what we have is a "window of timing" thing here. Reactions have to React during the window of timing for the Reaction. For Moat, Secret Chamber, Horse Traders and Caravan Guard, the window is "when an opponent plays an Attack card". The order of effects is:

Opponent plays Attack card
You react with reactions whose window is "when an opponent plays an Attack card"
Attack card's effects then get resolved

Once the Attack card's effects start getting resolved, it is too late to reveal Reactions that react to "when an opponent plays an Attack card", even if the effects of the Attack card include your drawing cards.

[GendoIkari]

Note the word "first" written on Horse Traders and Moat. "you may first reveal this from your hand"; "you may first set this aside from your hand". The "first" there means that you have to do use the card before the attack card resolves. Once your opponent starts following the instructions on the attack card, it is too late.

Long before Menagerie was released, this same question was often asked about Minion or Pirate Ship; if you could wait to see which choice your opponent was making before revealing your Moat. But the answer is no; you need to reveal your Moat before they choose their option for Minion or Pirate Ship.

First edition of Moat and Horse Traders did not have the word "First" but they still worked the same way. Second edition added "first" for clarity.

[Jeebus]

Also note that Reactions react to different things. Sheepdog, Black Cat and Watchtower react to gaining a card. So if this makes you draw another card, you're still in the "gain a card" window and can keep reacting with these cards.

Caravan Guard, Diplomat, Horse Traders, Beggar and Secret Chamber react to an Attack being played. If e.g. Dipolmat makes you draw another one of these Reaction cards, you can still use it. But once all that is done, the "attacking" player starts actually resolving the Attack card, and then you can't use those Reactions anymore. Margrave could make you draw a Diplomat, but it's too late.

So when you gain a Curse from Soothsayer, you can't react with Diplomat, Horse Traders or any of those cards anympore; but you ARE gaining a card, so you can react with Watchtower; and you can react with Sheepdog, which might draw you another Sheepdog, or a Watchtower, etc.