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Author Topic: Weekly Design Contest 122: That Other Way of Drawing  (Read 4458 times)

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Gubump

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Re: Weekly Design Contest 122: That Other Way of Drawing
« Reply #75 on: July 26, 2021, 05:36:38 pm »
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Flywheel (Action)
Trash a card from your hand. Draw until you have 6 cards in hand.
Beautiful. One might argue that this should perhaps cost , as it is a trashing Smithy and this seems on the higher end of those variants. I think I’d leave it as-is for now, and check where it stands after play testing it. It’s an easy adjustment anyway. My take on Flywheel is this: It’s very simple and elegant and, like, I love it. Yay!

Thanks for proposing and judging this fun contest! I think you substantially over-estimate the power of Flywheel. The trashing is mandatory, which dramatically limits its utility as a draw engine because you will generally run out of cards that you want to trash.

I disagree; that applies to all cards with mandatory trashing. Trashing, even when mandatory, is almost universally seen as an upside even for engine-oriented cards that aren't even TfB, like Junk Dealer and Hideout.

I do agree with its price of over pricing it at , but not because of the trashing being mandatory, but because the trashing occurs before the drawing.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2021, 05:38:20 pm by Gubump »
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X-tra

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Re: Weekly Design Contest 122: That Other Way of Drawing
« Reply #76 on: July 26, 2021, 05:46:14 pm »
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I disagree; that applies to all cards with mandatory trashing. Trashing, even when mandatory, is almost universally seen as an upside even for engine-oriented cards that aren't even TfB, like Junk Dealer and Hideout.

I do agree with its price of over pricing it at , but not because of the trashing being mandatory, but because the trashing occurs before the drawing.

You might just be right about this. But trashing enables draw, so it must be built like this. It is probably fine at . In my own words, "I'd leave it as-is". It was just an hypothesis that hinges on the result of a couple of playtesting games. But it's fair to say that even without having played any games with Flywheel, it definitely smells like a .
« Last Edit: July 26, 2021, 05:48:45 pm by X-tra »
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JW

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Re: Weekly Design Contest 122: That Other Way of Drawing
« Reply #77 on: July 26, 2021, 06:54:03 pm »
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I disagree; that applies to all cards with mandatory trashing. Trashing, even when mandatory, is almost universally seen as an upside even for engine-oriented cards that aren't even TfB, like Junk Dealer and Hideout.

I do agree with its price of over pricing it at , but not because of the trashing being mandatory, but because the trashing occurs before the drawing.

As a general matter I don't disagree with you. But "draw to X" doesn't combo well with the much more common +Cards sources of draw (think of a Smithy/Flywheel engine). Sure, if you can build a combined Flywheel / other draw to X engine, it's a great addition. But you can't plan on Flywheel being your only draw because of the mandatory trashing, so you're going to need other draw, and that probably won't be other draw to X because of its rarity. Similarly, if you can't count on having "draw to X" forever, you can't add as many other cards that go particularly well with it (such as non-terminal sources of coins).

Edit: to put it slightly differently, I'm not convinced that Flywheel is better than an Action that read: Trash a card from your hand. +3 Cards. But that action would be a good $5. "Trash a card from your hand. +2 Cards." That card would get bought at $5 (which goes to show how powerful Masquerade is!), but I don't think it would be strong for a trasher.   Remind me to think before posting next time ;D
« Last Edit: July 27, 2021, 01:39:33 am by JW »
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Gubump

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Re: Weekly Design Contest 122: That Other Way of Drawing
« Reply #78 on: July 27, 2021, 12:03:13 am »
+2

I disagree; that applies to all cards with mandatory trashing. Trashing, even when mandatory, is almost universally seen as an upside even for engine-oriented cards that aren't even TfB, like Junk Dealer and Hideout.

I do agree with its price of over pricing it at , but not because of the trashing being mandatory, but because the trashing occurs before the drawing.

Edit: to put it slightly differently, I'm not convinced that Flywheel is better than an Action that read: "Trash a card from your hand. +2 Cards." That card would get bought at $5 (which goes to show how powerful Masquerade is!), but I don't think it would be strong for a trasher.

1. Flywheel draws 3 cards from a default handsize, not 2. You're down to 3 cards in hand before drawing.
2. "Trash a card from your hand. +2 Cards." Is not printable at $5. That compares poorly to Masquerade and is strictly worse than Recruiter.
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majiponi

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Re: Weekly Design Contest 122: That Other Way of Drawing
« Reply #79 on: July 27, 2021, 05:58:28 pm »
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Industrious Guide (Action)
Reveal your hand. Discard all non-Action cards. Draw until you have 6 cards in hand.
Looks tough to use in an engine (you’ll have mostly Action cards) and undesirable in a money-centric strategy (you’ll draw more, at the expense of discarding all of your Treasures). In your engine, this might net in being a +2 or +3 Cards, which, okay. But if you utilize stuff like Native Village, Fishing Village, Necropolis, or Inn, then it looks better. These are the cards to be on the lookout for. Anyway, pretty straightforward card, albeit looks a little difficult to use efficiently, perhaps.

It lets me discard useless cards like Provinces or untrashed Coppers, and cycles my deck to let me play Action cards faster.
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Weekly Design Contest 122: That Other Way of Drawing
« Reply #80 on: July 27, 2021, 07:44:22 pm »
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Thank you for judging


Tidy Town (Action – Attack)
+2 Actions
Each player (including you) discards any number of cards from their hand, then reveals a hand with only Actions and Treasures. Then, draw until you have 4 cards in hand.
What a crazy Attack! This might make someone discard down to 2 cards or less if they have 1 or more green cards in their hand. No Attack in Dominion can leave you with such a small start-of-turn handsize. If your hand is something like “Village, Village, Silver, Silver, Estate”, then normally a Militia would make you discard something like Estate and Silver. Maybe. But here, it goes beyond that and makes you discard an extra Silver. Or might as well toss the 2 Villages at this point. Point is, it can be extra mean if you have Victory cards in hand. This looks appealing in non-trashing boards. The perk you get when you play Tidy Town sounds like it could potentially be a Village, more or less. So that’s my take here. I just fear that the Attack can cut too deep if you’re unlucky enough to have a hand such as the one I described above.

Just to clarify, the attack is "Reveal a hand with only Actions and Treasures" not "only Actions or only Treasures". So a hand of 2 Silvers, 2 Villages and an Estate, the only card that they need to discard is the Estate. The intent of the attack is that they only need to discard the "junk" cards from their hand - not a strong attack but it can be quite irritating if you have sifters or wanted to trash that junk.
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