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Author Topic: Fan Card Mechanics Week 14: 'Tis the Season  (Read 2916 times)

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mathdude

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Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 14: 'Tis the Season
« Reply #50 on: July 09, 2021, 11:03:05 am »
0



Quote from: Encounter
$4 - Night
In Spring: Gain a card costing up to $4.
In Summer: Exile a card from the Supply costing up to $5.
In Autumn: Gain a gold.
In Winter: Look at the top 6 cards of your deck. Discard any number and put the rest back in any order.
-
This is gained to your hand
(instead of to your discard pile)

This submission uses the original 12-turn season (starting with 3 spring turns).  The gain to hand helps accommodate it.  I wanted it to be a Night card, but also match the cycle through the seasons - starting growth in the Spring, continued growth in the Summer (but it doesn't always grow the way you intended in poor weather, like if you can't gain another of that card to get the one out of Exile), cashing in when you sell crops in the Autumn, and cleaning out the field in Winter.

I'm not overly tied to the name/image of the card, but it's all I've got for now.  Maybe you had a strange encounter at night that helped you with your crops!  (I had initially called it Crop Circles, but  that tied in to the theme of what the card does even less).

Edit: the Summer should be "from the Supply" for the Exile. I'm on mobile at the moment and can't update the picture.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2021, 05:05:20 pm by mathdude »
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emtzalex

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Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 14: 'Tis the Season
« Reply #51 on: July 09, 2021, 11:21:56 am »
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Quote from: Encounter
In Summer: Exile a card costing up to $5.

From where?
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Thanks to Shard of Honor for his Extended Version of the Dominion Card Image Generator, which I use to mock up my fan cards, and to Violet CLM, who made the original.

The Alchemist

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Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 14: 'Tis the Season
« Reply #52 on: July 09, 2021, 01:00:09 pm »
0



Quote from: Encounter
In Summer: Exile a card costing up to $5.

From where?

Anywhere. Abduct your opponent's duchies right out of their hands and swipe them to your exile.
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The Alchemist

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Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 14: 'Tis the Season
« Reply #53 on: July 09, 2021, 01:06:38 pm »
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If NoMoreFun intends to use the ordinary 20 turn season (he has not posted that he wants to deviate from the standard) the Winter nerf is likely not necessary.

You make some good points. Let's go ahead and modify the rules then, for a 12-turn "year". If anyone wants to go with the original 20-turn or a different number like 16, they can do that too, just specify that that's the intention

Assumed by this we were making 12 turns the default, and opt-in to 20 turns. I personally don't like "Winter is past when the game would usually end by anyway, so its fine if the bonuses are overpowered" solution. I agree winter should be the strongest bonus, but a double lab at $5 is a bit excessive.
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mathdude

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Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 14: 'Tis the Season
« Reply #54 on: July 09, 2021, 05:05:54 pm »
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Quote from: Encounter
In Summer: Exile a card costing up to $5.

From where?

From Supply. I've updated, except not the card image.
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exfret

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Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 14: 'Tis the Season
« Reply #55 on: July 09, 2021, 11:23:59 pm »
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This uses The Alchemist's version of Seasons, where we start in winter. To explain the debt cost, I was afraid of weird interactions possibly with cost reducers, but there are no debt cost reducers so it's good. Also, I'm doing a debt-based expansion, so debt cost seemed fun.

Since most games end before turn 15, this is usually at most a +1 card/+4 Action card with an average of about 2 actions across the game. Even in slog games that last, like, 30 turns, sure you'll have that one turn with 10 actions, but that doesn't do much so it doesn't really become oppressive. Now, if it gave cards instead of actions that would be something... but it doesn't. In fact, the main drawback seems to be the fact that even if it gives a lot of actions you need to still rely on drawing it (where with something like Port, drawing is more reliable), so I feel like it's pretty balanced.

Hope it looks interesting, too!

I'm making it cost one less:

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mxdata

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Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 14: 'Tis the Season
« Reply #56 on: July 10, 2021, 01:56:07 am »
+1

Submissions Closed

I will be providing judgment shortly later today
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mxdata

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Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 14: 'Tis the Season
« Reply #57 on: July 10, 2021, 04:24:26 pm »
+2

Twelve entries, an appropriate number for the theme!
Alright I've tweaked the card a bit:


Now each individual effect is reasonably a $4.5, which is nice because it offers a way to bring those 4 cards into the game where right now they can't be standalone. A mix of cards that could have been. Spring is inspired by Wind's gift, Summer by Fire's gift, Autumn was Earth's gift inspired but now its more Field's gift, and now Winter is Snowy Village inspired.

A nice strong card, and I think fairly-priced. All four of its effects are definitely good cards. My only concern is with the Winter effect. Since you can only get the +3 Actions in about 1/4 of the game, it would be hard to take full advantage of that. If there are other villages in the game, then a lot of the time you'll end up with enough extra Actions anyways, so that those +Actions would be redundant - while if there aren't any other villages, then you have a case where extra Actions are only available in Winter, so you wouldn't want a whole lot of non-terminal Actions anyways.  Still, it's a good card, and the seasonal theme works nicely

Finalist



Quote
Compost ē $4 ē Action - Season
Trash a card from your hand.

In Spring, you may also trash a Copper from your hand.
In Summer, gain a card costing exactly $1 more than it.
In Autumn, gain a card that shares a type with it; if it costs more, trash this.
In Winter, gain a Victory card that costs less than it.

Power remodeler/trasher. Designed with a 4-turn season (16-turn year) in mind, starting with T1/2 being in winter, T3 starting spring.
the autumn one might be a little too bananas. idk.
Tried to color-match one of segura's old season cards, which iirc used asper's original colors.

I think Autumn is definitely overpowered without some limitation. You could turn an Estate into a Province or Colony, or a Copper into a Gold or Platinum, and with Fortress you could gain any Action card. And there are also times when gaining equal- or lower-cost cards would be beneficial too. It would be especially strong in games with Lurker, Graverobber, and Rogue, where you could rescue Compost and/or the card you trashed from the trash - and since you don't have "differently-named", you could just trash a card for another copy of itself, then rescue the original card. The other three seasons, though, are good effects. Works nicely with a 16-turn year too. In Spring you'll be trashing your Estates and Coppers. Summer is essentially a non-Cantrip version of Upgrade. With Spring starting on turn 3, Winter would start on turn 14. At that point, turning Golds into Duchies would often be a good move

The Autumn effect is the only part that I'm really iffy on. Does the fact that it has to trash itself to upgrade a card compensate for the fact that it can upgrade without any cost-limitation? I think in the end I'm going to have to say that the Autumn effect is too strong for this to be a finalist

My Submission:


Quote from: Werebear
WEREBEAR  $5
ACTION - RESERVE - SEASON
+4 Cards
In Fall and Winter, put this on your Tavern mat.

At the start of your turn, in Spring, Summer, or Fall you may call this for +1 Card in Spring or +2 Cards in Summer.
                                                                                               

A take on Werewolf, it does not do anything different at Night, but instead hibernates during Winter.

Interesting use of the Reserve mat here. The on-play effect is strong, the same as Hunting Grounds. Hunting Grounds has an additional when-trash benefit and doesn't send itself to the Reserve mat, so the fact that it costs a little less than Hunting Grounds is justified. The effect of calling is interesting. I suspect most of the time you'd want to call it at the start of Spring rather than wait until Summer. I would drop the ability to call it during Fall. But, overall, a good card

Finalist



Quote
Granary - $4
Victory - Season
1VP
-
When you gain this, if it is...

Spring, trash 3 cards you have in play.
Summer, gain a non-Victory card costing up to $5.
Fall or Winter, +1VP, +1 Coffers.

A victory card that has a variable on-buy effect. Encourages early purchases of what amounts to an Estate. Late game it is pretty much a $3 cost 2VP card, but with trash for benefit cards it could be a good purchase.

Definitely a card you'd buy for the on-gain effect.  Assuming the 12-turn, starting in Spring version, this would make an interesting opening. You could easily trash 3 Coppers right away in the opening. Maybe even 6 Coppers if you buy it on both T1 and T3, but trashing that many Coppers that soon is often a bad move. Buying it in Summer would essentially be the equivalent of an Event costing $4 that said "Gain a non-Victory card costing up to $5 and an Estate" (unless there's trash-for-benefit of course, which would make this more useful than an Estate). I wouldn't say that late game is equivalent to a $3 cost card, since, if you gain it in your buy phase you can't use the Coffers until your next turn (barring Villa or Calvary), but still, 2 VP for $4 wouldn't be a bad buy near the end of the game. And gaining it during your Action phase would let you use that Coffers on the same turn

Finalist

I haven't posted a card in the fan mechanic contests in a while! But that Season idea is very appealing, so I'll take a crack at it. My card is tied with this version of Seasons:



The table show what Season it is for each turn. An average game of Dominion thus ends on the last day of Winter, which is kind of neat. Turn 3, when you have your first deck shuffle and actual cards in it you can use, marks the first day of Spring, to make better use of that Season.

With that being said, here is my card:



This is an interesting take - and also means that if the game extends out to a second "year" (and games longer than 14 turns are by no means uncommon), then it's different in the second Spring vs the first Spring. In the first Spring it's basically a Copper that double curses - a really strong attack! But the fact that the attack only happens in Spring ameliorates that. Double-cursing would be far too strong if it could happen every turn. In Summer it becomes a slightly-overpriced silver, but then in Fall it's a cheap Gold, and in Winter its even stronger. If you get to a second Spring, it becomes a Platinum that double-curses!

This is a tricky one to judge. I think it's also a bit swingy. Spring lasts from T3-T5. This means that a player who bought this in the opening is guaranteed to be able to play it at least once - but there's also a chance of being able to play it a second time, on T5, with a lucky reshuffle. Furthermore, if the game reaches T15 (start of second Spring), then player 1 will have a really strong advantage, if there are no other cursing attacks or moats. Assume that both players opened with Four-Leaf Clover and both played it only once during first spring.  That means there's six Curses left going into T15. Since this is at least as strong as Gold from Fall on, you'll probably have bought up several of these during the game. So, on T15, with Spring starting anew, player 1 is likely to be able to play more than one of these. If they're able to play 3 or more, they'll run out the Curse pile with Platinum-equivalents! Of course, if there are other cursing attacks, then the Curse pile will likely be empty by that point

Overall, I fear this is broken

Going with the original 20 turn year.



Thematically the idea is that the loot diminishes over time with all the Pirates plundering it.
Obviously a controversial card with non-terminal Coffer yield and potentially too strong. You can get the sweet Spring bonus only once but then this is still a powerhouse in Summer. In Fall it is a lousy Ducat and in Winter it does nothing.
One obvious way to nerf it would be to use a 16 turn year.

You could get that Spring bonus twice with a lucky reshuffle on T5, but yes, most of the time you'd only get it once. With the original 20-turn year, it's also pretty uncommon that you'll end up in a second Spring, so you can basically write it off as useless after T15 (well, if this is the only +buy, it might still be useful just for that), but there are plenty of Action cards that become less useful in the late game, so I don't think a Treasure card doing the same thing is bad. I rather like this idea. It kind of reminds me of a reverse Fool's Gold, in that Fool's Gold tends to become more valuable later in the game when it becomes easier to line up multiple copies. An unconditional +1 Buy +3 Coffers at $4 would be massively overpowered, but since you're only going to get that effect once, or twice if you get lucky, that's not a problem. I think this is an interesting card, and well-balanced

Finalist



Like emtzalex's Werebear, this also requires two mats for one card (counting the season tracker as a mat), so that's an interesting bit of extra set-up. The gaining might be fairly weak in a lot of games, since you can typically only accumulate tokens during T3-T6, assuming you're going with the 12-turn year, so it would probably be hard to accumulate enough tokens to make its gaining worthwhile. If the game extends past Winter, it would basically be just a simple +2 Cards - you'd have to go all the way to a second Fall - T19! - to use any tokens accumulated after Winter. Overall, I fear this is a bit weak




EDIT: This (also) uses X-tra's 12-turn version of the season mechanic.

I don't think you need (this is a season card) on the project itself. Technically, it's not even accurate to call it a card, but also, it seems unnecessary to me to reference that at all. I'm not so sure that the project would be useful. Ice Queen is very strong in Winter, but the rest of the year, it becomes a junk card, like a Ruined Village that topdecks itself, and since the gaining is not optional once you buy the project, your deck could end up with lots of these. So, a card that's junk 3/4 of the time and strong the other 1/4 doesn't seem like something I'd want to go for in most games. Although, in games with trash-for-benefit, the $5 cost could be useful, and its auto-topdecking would make it easier to line up with trash-for-benefit cards. But, in most games, I think this would end up being one to avoid

Wrangler
Action/Season - $5
+1 Card
+1 Action
Gain a Horse...
In Summer: to the bottom of your deck
In Autumn: onto your deck
In Winter: to your hand

Rules clarification: In Spring, you Gain a Horse (to your discard pile)

I agree with The Alchemist's comment that it's probably best to explicitly state what happens in Spring. But that wording won't affect the judging. This is definitely a good card. A cantrip Horse-gainer is rather strong. Indeed, just non-terminal Horse gaining in general is - note that none of the official Horse-gainers are unqualified non-terminal - and I like how it works with the season mechanic, with each season bringing the Horse closer to you. In Winter, you have it right away, allowing this to function as a double-lab - or you can save the Horse if you don't need to draw any more cards (or have already drawn your deck), so the added flexibility makes it stronger than a simple +1 Action +3 Cards would be. In Autumn it will often be available on the same turn you play it, but if not, then in your next hand. Summer's is interesting. Gaining to the bottom of your deck is a space not used in any official cards. If you play several of these during a Summer turn (or Throne/KC it), then you'll have a lot of draw lined up for a later turn!

Finalist


I'm in favour of X-tra's 3 turn cycle starting with 2 winters, so that's what this card uses. $4 might be too cheap.

Edit: a better-coloured mock-up.

This is an interesting one. Spring's effect is weaker than Bridge, which adds +$1. Winter is like a Sleigh or Calvary with an extra buy added, and no reaction or on-gain effect. Summer and Autumn's effects are also pretty good for $4. So, overall, I think that this is probably a decent card at $4



This uses The Alchemist's version of Seasons, where we start in winter. To explain the debt cost, I was afraid of weird interactions possibly with cost reducers, but there are no debt cost reducers so it's good. Also, I'm doing a debt-based expansion, so debt cost seemed fun.

Since most games end before turn 15, this is usually at most a +1 card/+4 Action card with an average of about 2 actions across the game. Even in slog games that last, like, 30 turns, sure you'll have that one turn with 10 actions, but that doesn't do much so it doesn't really become oppressive. Now, if it gave cards instead of actions that would be something... but it doesn't. In fact, the main drawback seems to be the fact that even if it gives a lot of actions you need to still rely on drawing it (where with something like Port, drawing is more reliable), so I feel like it's pretty balanced.

Hope it looks interesting, too!

I'm making it cost one less:



So this is basically a free card in the opening. But since it's just a simple cantrip in Spring, and doesn't become a village until Summer, you're probably not going to open with it, unless you have a 5/2 opening with no good $2 cards, making that not a serious issue. It's interesting in that it allows more non-terminal actions to be purchased later in the game, since it automatically becomes a stronger village over time. A simple idea, but very cool. The only part I'm not crazy about is the debt cost, which feels kinda weird, and prevents the use of any gainers for this. The format of the cost icon also looks a bit weird to me, having "0 debt" as the stated cost, but since the variable cost is in debt and not coin, that's probably the best solution. Also, the name is a bit out of place in Dominion, but that's a minor nitpick

Finalist



Quote from: Encounter
$4 - Night
In Spring: Gain a card costing up to $4.
In Summer: Exile a card from the Supply costing up to $5.
In Autumn: Gain a gold.
In Winter: Look at the top 6 cards of your deck. Discard any number and put the rest back in any order.
-
This is gained to your hand
(instead of to your discard pile)

This submission uses the original 12-turn season (starting with 3 spring turns).  The gain to hand helps accommodate it.  I wanted it to be a Night card, but also match the cycle through the seasons - starting growth in the Spring, continued growth in the Summer (but it doesn't always grow the way you intended in poor weather, like if you can't gain another of that card to get the one out of Exile), cashing in when you sell crops in the Autumn, and cleaning out the field in Winter.

I'm not overly tied to the name/image of the card, but it's all I've got for now.  Maybe you had a strange encounter at night that helped you with your crops!  (I had initially called it Crop Circles, but  that tied in to the theme of what the card does even less).

Edit: the Summer should be "from the Supply" for the Exile. I'm on mobile at the moment and can't update the picture.

There's one major issue I see here: the fact that you gain this to your hand in Spring would let you instantly pile it out. Then in Summer you could pile out the Duchies, putting them into Exile. Now you only need one more pile to end the game. That seems rather broken. I'd suggest adding "non-Night" to the Spring gaining. I'd also add "non-Victory" to Summer's Exiling, because being able to Exile Duchies seems rather strong for $4. It's a cool idea, but I think that, as it is, it doesn't really work

A lot of good entries in this contest! It was very hard to choose a winner

Winner: Emtzalex's Werebear
First runner-up: Nomorefun's Wrangler
Second runner-up: Segura's Pirate Treasure
Third runner-up: Xen3k's Granary
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The Alchemist

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Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 14: 'Tis the Season
« Reply #58 on: July 11, 2021, 05:13:40 am »
+2

Thanks for judging! I really enjoyed this week's contest, the season mechanic is really interesting, I'd love to see more cards using it! I really enjoy the 12 turn season starting in Winter, I just played a playtest with it and its super cool how a year ends right about when the game does on average. Good entries everyone!
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emtzalex

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Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 14: 'Tis the Season
« Reply #59 on: July 11, 2021, 12:49:51 pm »
+1

Thanks mxdata, for judging and for the win. I will post the next contest shortly.
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Thanks to Shard of Honor for his Extended Version of the Dominion Card Image Generator, which I use to mock up my fan cards, and to Violet CLM, who made the original.

Asper

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Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 14: 'Tis the Season
« Reply #60 on: September 06, 2021, 12:01:22 pm »
+2

The Season mat has 20 spaces, 5 per Season, to reflect the typical phases of a game of Dominion:
  • Spring is the opening
  • Summer is buildup
  • Fall is closing
  • Winter (if it happens) is prolongued endgame.

While three of these can shift, Spring is certainly the one that pushes 5 turns as the standard the most, as this is the lowest number which guarantees that you will see every single one of your opening buys in Spring. Giving Spring only 3 or 4 turns means that you might see some of them randomly miss the Season. This also means that only on-buy and on-gain abilities can care for Spring - at least if you want something that is more than just random happenings.

It's also very relevant for the other Seasons, though. The way we (Co0kieL0rd and I) designed Seasons, one could make an attack that distributes Curses only in Fall, which still works but is too late to hurt players during buildup. We made a Village that you buy during Spring to trash a card, even though nobody needs several Villages early. We made a victory card that rewards you for buying it early, too, and a pile that disappears at the beginning of Fall, a card that you need to open with and play during Spring to max out what it can do, an attack that makes you discard in the middle of the game and topdeck during Spring and Winter, and so on, and so on.

Reducing the turn count ruins this model imo.

NoMoreFun's Wrangler would likely be my pick for winner considering this.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2021, 12:13:34 pm by Asper »
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X-tra

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Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 14: 'Tis the Season
« Reply #61 on: September 06, 2021, 12:30:05 pm »
+1

The Season mat has 20 spaces, 5 per Season, to reflect the typical phases of a game of Dominion:
  • Spring is the opening
  • Summer is buildup
  • Fall is closing
  • Winter (if it happens) is prolongued endgame.

While three of these can shift, Spring is certainly the one that pushes 5 turns as the standard the most, as this is the lowest number which guarantees that you will see every single one of your opening buys in Spring. Giving Spring only 3 or 4 turns means that you might see some of them randomly miss the Season. This also means that only on-buy and on-gain abilities can care for Spring - at least if you want something that is more than just random happenings.

It's also very relevant for the other Seasons, though. The way we (Co0kieL0rd and I) designed Seasons, one could make an attack that distributes Curses only in Fall, which still works but is too late to hurt players during buildup. We made a Village that you buy during Spring to trash a card, even though nobody needs several Villages early. We made a victory card that rewards you for buying it early, too, and a pile that disappears at the beginning of Fall, a card that you need to open with and play during Spring to max out what it can do, an attack that makes you discard in the middle of the game and topdeck during Spring and Winter, and so on, and so on.

Reducing the turn count ruins this model imo.

NoMoreFun's Wrangler would likely be my pick for winner considering this.

This makes sense; cards made by Co0kieL0rd and you followed the design of the 5-turn per season wheel. Because of that, changing the wheel turn would strangle the intricate design of these Season cards.

However, thatís not to say that other hypothetical cards couldnít be made following a different type of wheel, such as the 3-turn per season one. I think as long as itís stated before, then cards can be properly judged according to which wheel they use. The premise of the Season mechanic is, after all, very much kept at heart.

As for me, personally, I do prefer and advocate for a 3 turn per Season wheel. The Alchemist made a beautiful rendition of it on the first page of this thread. I like it better not only mechanically, but also thematically. For the theme, the most flavourful aspect, we have:
  • A total of 12 spaces on the wheel, which is a perfect imitation of the Gregorian calendar.
  • 3 turns per season, which is like 3 months per season in real life. Pretty accurate once again.
  • The wheel starts in the middle of winter, just like the first month, January, starts in the middle of winter. The game starts at the beginning of a new year!
The matches are so well timed Ė my goopy brain couldnít be happier!
Now, mechanically speaking, I think it too fills a nice niche:
  • Winter is for the first 2 turns. This is kind of funny, as your 2 opening buys fill that winter gap. As if the harshness of winter is the start of it all, and itís slow for you and your opponents to get your kingdom going in these blizzard storms.
  • Spring ends on turn 5, just like it does with the 5 turn wheel. So turn 3, 4 and 5 is spring, which is exactly your first shuffle. You will see your 2 opening buys in Spring. Maybe youíll even see them a second time with a nice turn 5 shuffle.
  • Winter ends on turn 14, which is exactly the average number of turns in your typical Dominion game. With rushes probably ending in Fall, and slogs going for a second turn of the wheel. This is a good way to see how you fare in your game too. Going for a second Spring tells your group that oops, the game was played too slow.
  • The game is also spliced in a nice way. Spring is for you to hit and to see your first two purchases. Summer is to build and get deck control. Fall is to build toward how youíre going to score, such as adding economy to your deck. Winter is to score, pile, and/or end the game. This isnít always true for all games, but I think itís a pretty good baseline.
Anyway, all in all, both systems work. If you design cards for either of them, then it needs to keep the length of the wheel/seasons in mind. I donít think one can simply port a card from one system to the other, as there are fundamentals that are lost otherwise. For instance, the card I submitted for this contest actually would work way worse if it used the regular wheel with 20 spaces on it.
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Asper

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Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 14: 'Tis the Season
« Reply #62 on: September 06, 2021, 12:47:57 pm »
+1

I will say that thematic games are something I very much enjoy, but Dominion never was such a game, at least not for me. It's nice if it works out, but as far as I'm concerned one shouldn't aim to let that get in design's way.

Mechanically, shorter Seasons mean you are more likely to see Seasons return, meaning that e.g. Winter cards become both opening and endgame cards. I consider it very hard to design cards with this split-up design space. There's a reason your contest winner is a circulating effect that just uses the Seasons as a way to delay itself, and could almost shift every ability one Season back or forth without losing how it works in essence.

I will admit that having the first two turns be Winter does improve the system, but it still means that you can't do opening on-gain abilities that aren't also endgame abilities, and vice versa. I suppose you can mostly emulate the original system other than that, but as I said, I don't see why one would want to lose on-gains. Rewarding players for opening with certain cards was a big thing in original Seasons.

And regarding 14 turns as the typical game length, should I presume you mostly play 1v1?
« Last Edit: September 06, 2021, 01:22:10 pm by Asper »
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Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 14: 'Tis the Season
« Reply #63 on: September 06, 2021, 01:16:50 pm »
+1

I will say that thematic games are something I very much enjoy, but Dominion never was such a game. It's nice if it works out, but as far as I'm concerned Dominion is designed in a way where one shouldn't aim to let that get in design's way.

I actually agree about how theme should not be put forth to the detriment of gameplay. This isnít just true to Dominion, but to all games in general. I think this design philosophy is very important. For instance, I tend to design cards without name and art, and then I slap some flavour to tie everything together (this isnít always true, I sometimes succumb to flavourful ideasÖ Iím only human too, hehe). This is how Donald X. does it too I reckon.

That being said, if the theme can align with the gameplay and the two can coexist without one hindering the other, then bam! Thatís a nice bonus and now both ideas benefit from one another. I believe this can be the case here.


I will admit that having the first two turns be Winter does improve the system, but it still means that you can't do opening on-gain abilities that aren't also endgame abilities, and vice versa. I suppose you can mostly emulate the original system other than that, but as I said, I don't see why one would want to lose on-gains solely for *theme*.

I donít think it canít do it, but I will concede that it is a harder goal to achieve indeed. A card could, for instance, do something very neat when gained during Winter, and stay mostly idle on-play until winter comes around again (turn 12 onward). The design space is not completely negated here.
But while some design doors shut themselves with this new wheel, others open. For instance, winter will come around more often in the shorter wheel, which means Season cards using it can exploit that better. Likewise, shorter seasons means more season changes. Cards that care about the number of time seasons have changed in a given game can do stuff with that. There are more ideas out there, probably.


And regarding 14 turns as the typical game length, should I presume you mostly play 1v1?

Online, I mostly do 2-player games, yes. In real life with the physical game, I vastly prefer 3-player games (and I prefer playing in real life overall). I donít play 4-player games or above anymore.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2021, 01:41:43 pm by X-tra »
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Asper

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Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 14: 'Tis the Season
« Reply #64 on: September 06, 2021, 01:23:18 pm »
+2

The reason why I asked for your typical player count was because games with more players tend to have scarcer engine parts and you are more likely to get hit by attacks, which would lead me to say that the average is more around 15 to 16 turns. While this may not seem like much of a difference, it shifts the beginning of Winter into the endgame (instead of its end), meaning that when you buy cards that are best later, you also make the estimation of whether the game will live long enough to use them to full effect (i.e. you can make a card cheap in Spring but great in Winter). This also gets lost here.

Either way, I apologize for complaining so much, I just didn't want to leave the impression 5 turn Seasons had been made on a whim. I think this is where the Seasons mechanic works the best and offers the most design space.

That said, thank you for using our mechanic in this contest :)
« Last Edit: September 06, 2021, 01:28:41 pm by Asper »
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X-tra

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Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 14: 'Tis the Season
« Reply #65 on: September 06, 2021, 01:34:27 pm »
+2

The reason why I asked for your typical player count was because games with more players tend to have scarcer engine parts and you are more likely to get hit by attacks, which would lead me to say that the average is more around 15 to 16 turns. While this may not seem like much of a difference, it shifts the beginning of Winter into the endgame (instead of its end), meaning that when you buy cards that are best later, you also make the estimation of whether the game will live long enough to use them to full effect (i.e. you can make a game cheap in Spring but great in Winter). This also gets lost here.

Either way, I apologize for complaining so much, I just didn't want to leave the impression 5 turn Seasons had been made on a whim. I think this is where the Seasons mechanic works the best and offers the most design space.

That said, thank you for using our mechanic in this contest :)

I never had the impression that this cool game mechanic was made on a whim. This is one of the most well-known fan mechanic out there in the Dominion community. I even have it on Tabletop Simulator, downloaded from the Steam Workshop before Rio Grande pulled the plug. It mostly comes down to a personal preference of mine. Me liking the shorter wheel better is just a reflection of what I prefer in Dominion, it's not to take a jab at the Season game mechanic at all!

Plus, the cards you guys have made, like I said, were designed with the bigger wheel in mind, and indeed stuff would cease working as intended if it used a different one. So all in all, the thing I was fundamentally trying to point at with my initial wall of text is: Cards should be made and should try to work within the bounds of the gameplay mechanics they use. Cards trying to go for the shorter wheel need to keep it in mind - and vice-versa.
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