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Author Topic: Weekly Design Contest 120: The Turn After Next  (Read 12003 times)

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mxdata

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Re: Weekly Design Contest 120: The Turn After Next
« Reply #25 on: July 05, 2021, 03:45:37 pm »
+2


Quote
Rubbish Collector
Action - Duration
$4
"While this is in play, at the start of each of your turns you may trash a card from your hand. Discard this from play at the end of your turn if you did not trash anything with this"

A duration trasher, similar to Cathedral, except that, unlike Cathedral, it is not permanent. Once you've trashed all (or at least most) of your junk, you can simply choose not to trash anything and discard it from play. It would make a strong opening play, like Chapel. It's arguably underpriced for its power (Cathedral is even cheaper, but is impossible to turn off, a rather significant downside in many kingdoms), but since you'd rarely want to buy more than one, I think it's good for the same reason that Chapel being $2 works. Plus, at $4, it ensures that anyone can buy this on one of their first two turns
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Re: Weekly Design Contest 120: The Turn After Next
« Reply #26 on: July 05, 2021, 07:13:03 pm »
+1

Refinery
Night - Duration ($6)
While this is in play, you may trash a card from your hand at the start of your Night Phase. If you do, gain a card costing up to $1 per different card type (Action, Attack, etc) you have in play. If you don’t, discard this from play.

My first ever Night card! I hope you like it!

The two cards of comparison I thought about while coming up with this are Horn of Plenty and Cobbler. The former can gain you higher cost cards a little more easily, but needs to be cycled to each turn to do so. The latter can only gain one card every other turn, but can always gain up to $4 regardless of how your turn went and gains the card to your hand next turn. Plus, they both cost $5.

It’ll (basically) always be able to gain $4s (Action, Treasure, and the two types on Refinery itself), and frequently be able to gain $5s and $6s. It’ll be able to gain Provinces on some boards, but with the trashing requirement I think that’s alright.

This is priced at $6 partially to not have lucky 5/2 opening splits, and partially because this seem extremely strong at $5 to me.

clarification question: You have two refineries in play. You trash one card at the start of your night phase - does that cover both of them?

No, the idea was to trash one card per Refinery you have out if you want to keep them all in play. I see how that’s confusing with the current wording but I don’t know how to adjust it to reflect that...

My suggested wording: "At the start of each of your Night phases that this remains in play, you may trash a card from your hand to gain a card costing up to per different card type (Action, Attack, etc.) you have in play. If you don't, discard this from play."

I think this addresses the issue pretty well. Mind if I update my OG post and use this wording?
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ConMan

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Re: Weekly Design Contest 120: The Turn After Next
« Reply #27 on: July 05, 2021, 07:29:00 pm »
+1

Escort - $4
Action - Duration
+1 Action
Trash a card from your hand. Put a coin token on here for each $ it cost.
At the start of your turn, you may remove one coin token from here to discard your hand and draw 5 cards.


Is this a paid-for Guide? Yep! Could it be done as a mat with tokens as well? Sure it could! Has it been done in a previous WDC? Probably, I've been skimming them for a while now. Is it priced right? Almost certainly not!

Updated wording:
Escort - $4
Action - Duration
+1 Action
Trash a card from your hand. Put a coin token on here for each $ it cost.
At the start of your turn, if there are any coin tokens on here you may remove one to discard your hand and draw 5 cards.
(This stays in play as long as there are coin tokens on it.)
« Last Edit: July 07, 2021, 12:48:38 am by ConMan »
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mathdude

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Re: Weekly Design Contest 120: The Turn After Next
« Reply #28 on: July 05, 2021, 07:37:36 pm »
+1

Escort - $4
Action - Duration
+1 Action
Trash a card from your hand. Put a coin token on here for each $ it cost.
At the start of your turn, you may remove one coin token from here to discard your hand and draw 5 cards.

Is this a paid-for Guide? Yep! Could it be done as a mat with tokens as well? Sure it could! Has it been done in a previous WDC? Probably, I've been skimming them for a while now. Is it priced right? Almost certainly not!

It would be completely different with a mat. The card wouldn't be a duration and would cycle and let you trash junk coppers and curses much easier. By your design, as required by the contest, it stays out of your deck for a while.
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mxdata

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Re: Weekly Design Contest 120: The Turn After Next
« Reply #29 on: July 05, 2021, 08:18:09 pm »
0

Escort - $4
Action - Duration
+1 Action
Trash a card from your hand. Put a coin token on here for each $ it cost.
At the start of your turn, you may remove one coin token from here to discard your hand and draw 5 cards.

Is this a paid-for Guide? Yep! Could it be done as a mat with tokens as well? Sure it could! Has it been done in a previous WDC? Probably, I've been skimming them for a while now. Is it priced right? Almost certainly not!

It would be completely different with a mat. The card wouldn't be a duration and would cycle and let you trash junk coppers and curses much easier. By your design, as required by the contest, it stays out of your deck for a while.

A version using a mat with tokens would also let you accumulate tokens with just one copy of this card. As a card, you can't gain more tokens until you've used up the tokens. If you want to accumulate more tokens, you'd need to buy a second copy
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ConMan

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Re: Weekly Design Contest 120: The Turn After Next
« Reply #30 on: July 05, 2021, 08:51:57 pm »
0

It would be completely different with a mat. The card wouldn't be a duration and would cycle and let you trash junk coppers and curses much easier. By your design, as required by the contest, it stays out of your deck for a while.

A version using a mat with tokens would also let you accumulate tokens with just one copy of this card. As a card, you can't gain more tokens until you've used up the tokens. If you want to accumulate more tokens, you'd need to buy a second copy
Both very true points. I agree that a mat version would play differently (and would additionally open up options for having multiple cards that provided guide tokens or whatever they'd be called), but the fundamental idea would be the same. I'm still happy with this as my entry either way.
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lompeluiten

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Re: Weekly Design Contest 120: The Turn After Next
« Reply #31 on: July 06, 2021, 05:34:19 am »
+1

(open for suggestions for an better name)
Eastern Hireling $5
Action - Duration

+1 Action
Now and on the start of your turn +1 card
-
Any player may pay $2 on their turn to discard this card from play.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2021, 05:45:43 am by lompeluiten »
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Gubump

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Re: Weekly Design Contest 120: The Turn After Next
« Reply #32 on: July 06, 2021, 10:48:03 am »
+1

Refinery
Night - Duration ($6)
While this is in play, you may trash a card from your hand at the start of your Night Phase. If you do, gain a card costing up to $1 per different card type (Action, Attack, etc) you have in play. If you don’t, discard this from play.

My first ever Night card! I hope you like it!

The two cards of comparison I thought about while coming up with this are Horn of Plenty and Cobbler. The former can gain you higher cost cards a little more easily, but needs to be cycled to each turn to do so. The latter can only gain one card every other turn, but can always gain up to $4 regardless of how your turn went and gains the card to your hand next turn. Plus, they both cost $5.

It’ll (basically) always be able to gain $4s (Action, Treasure, and the two types on Refinery itself), and frequently be able to gain $5s and $6s. It’ll be able to gain Provinces on some boards, but with the trashing requirement I think that’s alright.

This is priced at $6 partially to not have lucky 5/2 opening splits, and partially because this seem extremely strong at $5 to me.

clarification question: You have two refineries in play. You trash one card at the start of your night phase - does that cover both of them?

No, the idea was to trash one card per Refinery you have out if you want to keep them all in play. I see how that’s confusing with the current wording but I don’t know how to adjust it to reflect that...

My suggested wording: "At the start of each of your Night phases that this remains in play, you may trash a card from your hand to gain a card costing up to per different card type (Action, Attack, etc.) you have in play. If you don't, discard this from play."

I think this addresses the issue pretty well. Mind if I update my OG post and use this wording?

Of course not, go ahead. You don't need permission to make suggested changes to your card.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2021, 10:52:22 am by Gubump »
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Re: Weekly Design Contest 120: The Turn After Next
« Reply #33 on: July 06, 2021, 10:49:46 am »
+1

Escort - $4
Action - Duration
+1 Action
Trash a card from your hand. Put a coin token on here for each $ it cost.
At the start of your turn, you may remove one coin token from here to discard your hand and draw 5 cards.

Is this a paid-for Guide? Yep! Could it be done as a mat with tokens as well? Sure it could! Has it been done in a previous WDC? Probably, I've been skimming them for a while now. Is it priced right? Almost certainly not!

I think this needs "while any remain" for the second part. As worded, it stays in play forever even when you've run out of tokens, as it still gives you the choice every turn even though it's meaningless.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest 120: The Turn After Next
« Reply #34 on: July 06, 2021, 10:59:54 am »
+1

River Guide $5
Action - Duration
Now and at the start of your next two turns, choose one:
+1 Card, +1 Action; +$3; trash a card from your hand.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest 120: The Turn After Next
« Reply #35 on: July 06, 2021, 12:02:05 pm »
+1

River Guide $5
Action - Duration
Now and at the start of your next two turns, choose one:
+1 Card, +1 Action; +$3; trash a card from your hand.
This is way overpowered. Merchant Ship is $2 for 2 turns; this is $3 for 3 turns at the same cost. Granted, Merchant Ship isn't exactly a powerhouse, but River Guide also has all the other stuff to choose from. The Lost City effect is also pretty nuts.
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faust

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Re: Weekly Design Contest 120: The Turn After Next
« Reply #36 on: July 06, 2021, 12:06:17 pm »
+1


Quote
Exhibit - $2
Night/Duration

Set aside a non-Duration card you have in play under each Exhibit you have in play.
While any cards remain set aside under this, at the start of your Buy phase, discard one of them for +$2.
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emtzalex

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Re: Weekly Design Contest 120: The Turn After Next
« Reply #37 on: July 06, 2021, 12:10:06 pm »
+1

River Guide $5
Action - Duration
Now and at the start of your next two turns, choose one:
+1 Card, +1 Action; +$3; trash a card from your hand.
This is way overpowered. Merchant Ship is $2 for 2 turns; this is $3 for 3 turns at the same cost. Granted, Merchant Ship isn't exactly a powerhouse, but River Guide also has all the other stuff to choose from. The Lost City effect is also pretty nuts.

@Doom Shark, did you intend to only be able to pick each of the choices one time (like in the Chamberlain example spineflu posted earlier)? If so, you need some additional language. There are no official cards like this, but that one used "choose one you haven't picked yet:"



If you do have all three choice each time, I agree that the card is way overpowered.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest 120: The Turn After Next
« Reply #38 on: July 06, 2021, 12:22:03 pm »
+3



War Bond
$4 - Action - Duration
+1 Action
Put 1 Coffer onto this for each Action card you have in play (including this). While any remain, at the start of each of your turns, take a Coffer from this.


Upd: Thanks Gubump for the suggestions. Old version:
« Last Edit: July 07, 2021, 11:17:09 am by grep »
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Re: Weekly Design Contest 120: The Turn After Next
« Reply #39 on: July 06, 2021, 12:45:57 pm »
+1

Galley
$6
Action - Duration
Until after you choose to Exile this, at the start of each of your turns, choose one: Exile a card from your hand; or Exile this for +3 Cards.
 
I started with a design almost identical to mxdata’s rubbish collector (shortly before that was posted). Mine was $4, and said "at the start of each of your turns, choose one: trash a card from your hand, or discard this." 
 
However, I made a “permanent trasher” for a previous contest, and one issue that I didn't solve with that previous card is it felt like it should be a project because of the permanent effect once in play and the fact that you generally would buy only one.
 
Thinking about how to avoid that issue, I decided that my card needed an alternate effect that would correspond to being removed from play. I decided that removed from play should be exile rather than discard. The fact that it is exiled and not discarded presents a higher cost to getting it back, and means that without an appropriate gainer you can’t replay it the same turn you used it for the alternate effect. The card exiling itself also provides a particularly strong reason why a player might buy more than one.
 
Once the card exiled itself, it seemed thematic to exile cards from hand as well. Exiling reduces the downside of drawing an early hand of cards that you don't want to exile (but when you still have other junk in your deck). Hopefully the start of turn limitation means that it doesn’t as easily support simple “golden decks” that buy and exile a province each turn. It started at $5, but I was concerned that was too cheap and it was too strong an opener.

Updated the wording based on Gubump's and emtzalex's suggestions (which avoids problems with Bonfire or it being played via a card like Overlord). 
« Last Edit: July 06, 2021, 11:33:48 pm by JW »
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faust

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Re: Weekly Design Contest 120: The Turn After Next
« Reply #40 on: July 06, 2021, 01:06:46 pm »
+3

Galley
$6
Action - Duration
At the start of your turn, choose one: exile a card from your hand, or exile this for +3 cards.
 
I started with a design almost identical to mxdata’s rubbish collector (shortly before that was posted). Mine was $4, and said "at the start of each of your turns, choose one: trash a card from your hand, or discard this." 
 
However, I made a “permanent trasher” for a previous contest, and one issue that I didn't solve with that previous card is it felt like it should be a project because of the permanent effect once in play and the fact that you generally would buy only one.
 
Thinking about how to avoid that issue, I decided that my card needed an alternate effect that would correspond to being removed from play. I decided that removed from play should be exile rather than discard. The fact that it is exiled and not discarded presents a higher cost to getting it back, and means that without an appropriate gainer you can’t replay it the same turn you used it for the alternate effect. The card exiling itself also provides a particularly strong reason why a player might buy more than one.
 
Once the card exiled itself, it seemed thematic to exile cards from hand as well. Exiling reduces the downside of drawing an early hand of cards that you don't want to exile (but when you still have other junk in your deck). Hopefully the start of turn limitation means that it doesn’t as easily support simple “golden decks” that buy and exile a province each turn. It started at $5, but I was concerned that was too cheap and it was too strong an opener.
There are wording issues here. First of all, it says "at the start of your turn" which would usually just refer to the turn that this is played, so this would do nothing. That should be "at the start of each of your turns for the rest of the game". However, then it would still be active once you exiled it. So this needs to be fixed up in some way.
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Gubump

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Re: Weekly Design Contest 120: The Turn After Next
« Reply #41 on: July 06, 2021, 01:34:17 pm »
+2



War bond
$4 - Action - Duration
+1 Action
Put 1 Coffer onto this for each Action card in play (including this). At the start of your subsequent turns, take a Coffer from this. If none left, discard this.


1. Is this intentionally counting other player's Duration cards?
2. There's already a precedent for this kind of effect; Crypt uses "while any remain", so this should be "while any remain, at the start of each of your turns, take a Coffer from this."

Galley
$6
Action - Duration
At the start of your turn, choose one: exile a card from your hand, or exile this for +3 cards.
 
I started with a design almost identical to mxdata’s rubbish collector (shortly before that was posted). Mine was $4, and said "at the start of each of your turns, choose one: trash a card from your hand, or discard this." 
 
However, I made a “permanent trasher” for a previous contest, and one issue that I didn't solve with that previous card is it felt like it should be a project because of the permanent effect once in play and the fact that you generally would buy only one.
 
Thinking about how to avoid that issue, I decided that my card needed an alternate effect that would correspond to being removed from play. I decided that removed from play should be exile rather than discard. The fact that it is exiled and not discarded presents a higher cost to getting it back, and means that without an appropriate gainer you can’t replay it the same turn you used it for the alternate effect. The card exiling itself also provides a particularly strong reason why a player might buy more than one.
 
Once the card exiled itself, it seemed thematic to exile cards from hand as well. Exiling reduces the downside of drawing an early hand of cards that you don't want to exile (but when you still have other junk in your deck). Hopefully the start of turn limitation means that it doesn’t as easily support simple “golden decks” that buy and exile a province each turn. It started at $5, but I was concerned that was too cheap and it was too strong an opener.
There are wording issues here. First of all, it says "at the start of your turn" which would usually just refer to the turn that this is played, so this would do nothing. That should be "at the start of each of your turns for the rest of the game". However, then it would still be active once you exiled it. So this needs to be fixed up in some way.

To elaborate on faust's comment: A common mistake I've seen in fan cards is creators assuming that Duration cards that make themselves leave play stop their effect once they leave play. This is not true; you can Bonfire a Hireling and still get +1 Card every turn even though that Hireling is no longer in play. So as worded, Galley's effect will still keep proccing every turn.

My suggested wording to fix this problem: "At the start of each of your turns that this remains in play, choose one: Exile a card from your hand; or Exile this for +3 Cards."

P.S.: Spineflu, maybe you should add this "there is no rule saying that Durations just stop proccing if they leave play, you need special wording for that" detail to the OP?
« Last Edit: July 06, 2021, 01:38:06 pm by Gubump »
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Re: Weekly Design Contest 120: The Turn After Next
« Reply #42 on: July 06, 2021, 01:39:29 pm »
0

My suggested wording, @JW: "At the start of each of your turns that this remains in play, choose one: Exile a card from your hand; or Exile this for +3 Cards."
I thought about this, but it is unfortunately self-referential. When you decide whether to discard this during cleanup, you need to ask "will this do something next turn?", and if not, discard it. But now it does something if it stays in play and doesn't do anything if it doesn't stay in play, so you can make the argument that it should be discarded at the end of the turn.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest 120: The Turn After Next
« Reply #43 on: July 06, 2021, 01:43:37 pm »
0

My suggested wording, @JW: "At the start of each of your turns that this remains in play, choose one: Exile a card from your hand; or Exile this for +3 Cards."
I thought about this, but it is unfortunately self-referential. When you decide whether to discard this during cleanup, you need to ask "will this do something next turn?", and if not, discard it. But now it does something if it stays in play and doesn't do anything if it doesn't stay in play, so you can make the argument that it should be discarded at the end of the turn.

What about Gubump's wording, plus "(This is not discarded during clean-up)"?
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Re: Weekly Design Contest 120: The Turn After Next
« Reply #44 on: July 06, 2021, 02:34:35 pm »
+1

My suggested wording, @JW: "At the start of each of your turns that this remains in play, choose one: Exile a card from your hand; or Exile this for +3 Cards."
I thought about this, but it is unfortunately self-referential. When you decide whether to discard this during cleanup, you need to ask "will this do something next turn?", and if not, discard it. But now it does something if it stays in play and doesn't do anything if it doesn't stay in play, so you can make the argument that it should be discarded at the end of the turn.

What about Gubump's wording, plus "(This is not discarded during clean-up)"?

One issue with this is that words in parentheses generally clarify the rules, they don't modify them (meaning the card would function the same with or without them). I don't think that is what is happening here, at least not clearly.

I would suggest something different. I think the closest official example is Crypt, which is the only duration that does not remain in effect (and therefore, barring rare cases of trashing, in play) for either a fixed number of turns or the rest of the game. The duration effect of that card says "While any remain, at the start of each of your turns, put one of them into your hand." We can generalize this to "[Condition], [timing], [effect]." Here, the Condition is really "until you Exile this" or "until you choose the second option. The timing is the same, and your text for the effect is already fine (except that Exile and Cards should be capitalized, and the choices should be separated by a semicolon). Thus, I would word it as follows:

Quote from: Galley
Until after you Exile this, at the start of each of your turns, choose one: Exile a card from your hand; or Exile this for +3 Cards.

The only issue with this is that if you Trash it with Bonfire, you would be stuck Exiling a card for the rest of the game. Given that that would be entirely a player's choice, I do not see that as a huge problem. It does become a problem if another player uses Possession and then trashes it with Bonfire, forcing you to keep Exiling (unless you played it again and then Exiled it, or Exiled it from your hand, although that creates tracking issues if you have multiple copies).

You might solve that by saying:

Quote from: Galley
Until after you Exile or trash this, at the start of each of your turns, choose one: Exile a card from your hand; or Exile this for +3 Cards.

I'm not sure if you need to add that for such a fringe case, although it doesn't really add that much verbiage.  Another solution could be to use another card for tracking to avoid any self-reference. That might look like this:

Quote from: Galley
Gain a Silver. Set it aside. While it remains set aside, at the start of each of your turns, choose one: Exile a card from your hand; or discard the set aside Silver and Exile this for +3 Cards.

(I think Silver fits thematically; the Gallery gains you Silvers like the Masterpieces it displays). The obviously adds an entirely new element of gaining you a Silver. If the gaining gets monkied with, the Silver won't be set aside (under the stop moving rule), and the duration effect will fail, but I don't think that's a problem, since it will (I believe), always be the choice of that player. At $6, I don't think Silver gaining will be particularly strong, but given the card's powerful Exiling I don't think it hurts to much either. If Gallery gets trashed by Bonfire, the player still has the option to discard that Silver and end the effect. All that being said, this does add quite a bit more text, a whole new element/moving part, and complexity, all of which are probably needless because option (b) probably works fine (unless you want to add the element of gaining the Silver).
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Re: Weekly Design Contest 120: The Turn After Next
« Reply #45 on: July 06, 2021, 02:49:43 pm »
0

Thus, I would word it as follows:

Quote from: Galley
Until after you Exile this, at the start of each of your turns, choose one: Exile a card from your hand; or Exile this for +3 Cards.

The only issue with this is that if you Trash it with Bonfire, you would be stuck Exiling a card for the rest of the game. Given that that would be entirely a player's choice, I do not see that as a huge problem. It does become a problem if another player uses Possession and then trashes it with Bonfire, forcing you to keep Exiling (unless you played it again and then Exiled it, or Exiled it from your hand, although that creates tracking issues if you have multiple copies).

Thanks, I went with this wording! The fact that no one would have a reason to Bonfire their own Galley means that it would be very rare to have Possession + Bonfire such that it becomes an issue.  I also hope that when Bonfire is reprinted it will get "non-Duration" errata to limit rules edge-cases.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest 120: The Turn After Next
« Reply #46 on: July 06, 2021, 03:16:28 pm »
+1

Excellent entries this week so far. Im not submitting anything, but i just wanted to say this.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest 120: The Turn After Next
« Reply #47 on: July 06, 2021, 03:51:17 pm »
+1

Thus, I would word it as follows:

Quote from: Galley
Until after you Exile this, at the start of each of your turns, choose one: Exile a card from your hand; or Exile this for +3 Cards.

The only issue with this is that if you Trash it with Bonfire, you would be stuck Exiling a card for the rest of the game. Given that that would be entirely a player's choice, I do not see that as a huge problem. It does become a problem if another player uses Possession and then trashes it with Bonfire, forcing you to keep Exiling (unless you played it again and then Exiled it, or Exiled it from your hand, although that creates tracking issues if you have multiple copies).

Thanks, I went with this wording! The fact that no one would have a reason to Bonfire their own Galley means that it would be very rare to have Possession + Bonfire such that it becomes an issue.  I also hope that when Bonfire is reprinted it will get "non-Duration" errata to limit rules edge-cases.

This wording also breaks Command cards, though. If you Overlord a Galley (via cost reduction), the Overlord will be a Galley in-play forever. Based on previous comments, I'd suggest "until after you choose not to, at the start of each of your turns, you may Exile a card from your hand. If you didn't, Exile this for +3 Cards."

Also, opponents DO have a reason to Bonfire their own Galley. They can choose the latter option even if it's impossible; you can always choose impossible options. Removing Galley from play via means other than Exiling or it never entering play to begin with (such as by a Command card) effectively makes Exiling every turn optional without losing the ability as soon as you choose not to. You wouldn't actually be stuck Exiling every turn, as you can simply choose to Exile the Galley and fail.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2021, 04:01:28 pm by Gubump »
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Re: Weekly Design Contest 120: The Turn After Next
« Reply #48 on: July 06, 2021, 04:25:45 pm »
+3

This wording also breaks Command cards, though. If you Overlord a Galley (via cost reduction), the Overlord will be a Galley in-play forever. Based on previous comments, I'd suggest "until after you choose not to, at the start of each of your turns, you may Exile a card from your hand. If you didn't, Exile this for +3 Cards."

What about "Until after you choose to Exile this, at the start of each of your turns, choose one: Exile a card from your hand; or Exile this for +3 Cards."
 
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Re: Weekly Design Contest 120: The Turn After Next
« Reply #49 on: July 06, 2021, 04:35:52 pm »
0

This wording also breaks Command cards, though. If you Overlord a Galley (via cost reduction), the Overlord will be a Galley in-play forever. Based on previous comments, I'd suggest "until after you choose not to, at the start of each of your turns, you may Exile a card from your hand. If you didn't, Exile this for +3 Cards."

What about "Until after you choose to Exile this, at the start of each of your turns, choose one: Exile a card from your hand; or Exile this for +3 Cards."

Best wording yet.
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