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Author Topic: Credit Card  (Read 1493 times)

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exfret

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Credit Card
« on: June 30, 2021, 01:41:05 am »
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These are some cards I've been refining. The basic idea is a card that gives you the ability to buy things with debt cost (for a debt-based expansion I'm working on). Thoughts?
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mxdata

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Re: Credit Card
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2021, 02:35:17 am »
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I don’t like it. The cost is weird (you want it to be cheap but ungainable via Workshops and Remodels or what is the idea?), you need at least one copy to prevent one dude from running away with eternal debt but then it is basically just a Copper/Silver.

Good Credit only lets you buy cards with no debt cost while having debt - you'd still need to pay off debt before you can buy something with debt in its cost, so if there's good debt-cost cards in the game, then you'd still want to pay off your debt, while in games without other debt-cost cards, it becomes rather useless.  Plus, since you still have to pay off your debt before buying debt-cost cards, it usually won't let you accumulate that much debt anyways.  The major exception being in games with Capital.  If Capital is in the game, then you definitely will want to contest the artifact - if you ignore Credit Card and let your opponent keep Good Credit, then Capital becomes effectively a double-gold with +buy and no downside for your opponent.  Mountain Pass would be another situation where you would definitely not want to let your opponent hold Good Credit uncontested
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exfret

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Re: Credit Card
« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2021, 05:14:55 am »
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Basically, except for a few edge cases like Capital, this functions as a payload card that can be a copper, silver, or gold depending on how much you're willing to ignore the debt and risk Good Credit being taken away. That being said, maybe this isn't particularly compelling. I think I'll stick this idea on the backburner for when I have enough design experience to make it work.
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exfret

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Re: Credit Card
« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2021, 02:47:47 pm »
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I don’t like it. The cost is weird (you want it to be cheap but ungainable via Workshops and Remodels or what is the idea?), you need at least one copy to prevent one dude from running away with eternal debt but then it is basically just a Copper/Silver.

Good Credit only lets you buy cards with no debt cost while having debt - you'd still need to pay off debt before you can buy something with debt in its cost, so if there's good debt-cost cards in the game, then you'd still want to pay off your debt, while in games without other debt-cost cards, it becomes rather useless
This is wrong. The card is a Gold in Kingdoms without any cards that cost Debt as long as it is uncontested.
Sure, contesting it lately implies that the player who ran away with it now has to pay back a huge pile of Debt but I nonetheless think that you want a copy of this early on in most situations. Which is precisely what I don’t like about it. All players are likely forced to go for at least one copy and this is then a bad card in your deck.

That sounds accurate. Maybe I should have Good Credit be a State that goes away when you start the second phase of your Buy phase with more debt than coin or something, so that it's not necessary for other players to go out of their way for it.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Credit Card
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2021, 02:52:11 am »
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I don’t like it. The cost is weird (you want it to be cheap but ungainable via Workshops and Remodels or what is the idea?), you need at least one copy to prevent one dude from running away with eternal debt but then it is basically just a Copper/Silver.

Good Credit only lets you buy cards with no debt cost while having debt - you'd still need to pay off debt before you can buy something with debt in its cost, so if there's good debt-cost cards in the game, then you'd still want to pay off your debt, while in games without other debt-cost cards, it becomes rather useless
This is wrong. The card is a Gold in Kingdoms without any cards that cost Debt as long as it is uncontested.
Sure, contesting it lately implies that the player who ran away with it now has to pay back a huge pile of Debt but I nonetheless think that you want a copy of this early on in most situations. Which is precisely what I don’t like about it. All players are likely forced to go for at least one copy and this is then a bad card in your deck.

I'm not clear on how you run away with it. Each copy gives you a debt when you buy it and another debt when you play it; and if you want to buy another one, you have to pay off the debt. I guess you get to turn them all into Gold eventually, but not until after you have bought as many as you want; they're basically either Silvers or Coppers until then.
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Holger

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Re: Credit Card
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2021, 08:49:43 am »
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I don’t like it. The cost is weird (you want it to be cheap but ungainable via Workshops and Remodels or what is the idea?), you need at least one copy to prevent one dude from running away with eternal debt but then it is basically just a Copper/Silver.

Good Credit only lets you buy cards with no debt cost while having debt - you'd still need to pay off debt before you can buy something with debt in its cost, so if there's good debt-cost cards in the game, then you'd still want to pay off your debt, while in games without other debt-cost cards, it becomes rather useless
This is wrong. The card is a Gold in Kingdoms without any cards that cost Debt as long as it is uncontested.
Sure, contesting it lately implies that the player who ran away with it now has to pay back a huge pile of Debt but I nonetheless think that you want a copy of this early on in most situations. Which is precisely what I don’t like about it. All players are likely forced to go for at least one copy and this is then a bad card in your deck.

I'm not clear on how you run away with it. Each copy gives you a debt when you buy it and another debt when you play it; and if you want to buy another one, you have to pay off the debt. I guess you get to turn them all into Gold eventually, but not until after you have bought as many as you want; they're basically either Silvers or Coppers until then.

Agreed. They only turn into Golds once you stop buying more, and there's always the huge threat of another player retroactively turning all your Credit Cards into Silvers (kind of). Depending on the kingdom, buying Credit Cards first may be worth it for the tempo effect of only having to pay back the debt much later, but it doesn't seem like a must-buy to me.

E.g. buying Skulks in any kingdom with a decent trasher is a much safer way to gain lots of cheap Golds early.
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