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Author Topic: Weekly Design Contest #116: Make me *less* special  (Read 12816 times)

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segura

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #116: Make me *less* special
« Reply #50 on: May 26, 2021, 01:57:10 pm »
0

Carnival
Event -

+1 Buy
+1 Coffers

When you buy this you may overpay for it. For each you overpaid +1 Coffers



I withdrew my previous entry and I am submitting this instead.
The unique mechanic I am using is from Pageant which allows you to convert unspent money into coffers, but I am doing it as an event instead of a project. You can convert any number of coins but you always get back 1 fewer coffers.
This is far too good. You can simply save all but one of your Coins when you don't hit $8 in the endgame, no need to go for Duchies at all.
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Jupaoqq

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #116: Make me *less* special
« Reply #51 on: May 26, 2021, 02:15:27 pm »
+4



Gourmet - Treasure - $7*
+3 Coffers
+1 buy
-
You can't buy this if you have Coffers.


Uses Grand Market's you can't buy if you have...
« Last Edit: May 26, 2021, 02:17:03 pm by Jupaoqq »
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xyz123

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #116: Make me *less* special
« Reply #52 on: May 26, 2021, 02:28:03 pm »
0

Carnival
Event -

+1 Buy
+1 Coffers

When you buy this you may overpay for it. For each you overpaid +1 Coffers



I withdrew my previous entry and I am submitting this instead.
The unique mechanic I am using is from Pageant which allows you to convert unspent money into coffers, but I am doing it as an event instead of a project. You can convert any number of coins but you always get back 1 fewer coffers.
This is far too good. You can simply save all but one of your Coins when you don't hit $8 in the endgame, no need to go for Duchies at all.

That also applies if you have bought Pageant. Or does having to buy Pageant justify that ability?
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segura

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #116: Make me *less* special
« Reply #53 on: May 26, 2021, 02:59:51 pm »
+2

Carnival
Event -

+1 Buy
+1 Coffers

When you buy this you may overpay for it. For each you overpaid +1 Coffers



I withdrew my previous entry and I am submitting this instead.
The unique mechanic I am using is from Pageant which allows you to convert unspent money into coffers, but I am doing it as an event instead of a project. You can convert any number of coins but you always get back 1 fewer coffers.
This is far too good. You can simply save all but one of your Coins when you don't hit $8 in the endgame, no need to go for Duchies at all.

That also applies if you have bought Pageant. Or does having to buy Pageant justify that ability?
HuH? Pageants saves ONE Coin. Your card saves ALL BUT ONE Coin. That is beyond crazy. If you hit anything below $8 in the endgame, you will never ever buy Duchy but simply save for a Province (or two) next turn.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #116: Make me *less* special
« Reply #54 on: May 26, 2021, 03:24:02 pm »
+2

Carnival
Event -

+1 Buy
+1 Coffers

When you buy this you may overpay for it. For each you overpaid +1 Coffers



I withdrew my previous entry and I am submitting this instead.
The unique mechanic I am using is from Pageant which allows you to convert unspent money into coffers, but I am doing it as an event instead of a project. You can convert any number of coins but you always get back 1 fewer coffers.
This is far too good. You can simply save all but one of your Coins when you don't hit $8 in the endgame, no need to go for Duchies at all.

That also applies if you have bought Pageant. Or does having to buy Pageant justify that ability?
HuH? Pageants saves ONE Coin. Your card saves ALL BUT ONE Coin. That is beyond crazy. If you hit anything below $8 in the endgame, you will never ever buy Duchy but simply save for a Province (or two) next turn.

Yeah. I believe Pageant originally let you convert all your leftover coins into Coffers. I showed that was crazy pretty quickly. After maybe buying a Silver or two, you just save all your money and only buy Provinces. No need to build a deck at all. It's very fast.

Possibly your version that makes you pay $1 for the privilege of saving the rest is less crazy, but I'm not optimistic.
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xyz123

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #116: Make me *less* special
« Reply #55 on: May 26, 2021, 03:40:13 pm »
0

Ok. Fair points. Completely mis-remembered Pageant. Thanks for the feedback.

I still think basic idea of an event that converts unspent coin to coffers is a valid one, but obviously the exchange rate needs to be moved towards making coffers more expensive I will have another think.
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gambit05

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #116: Make me *less* special
« Reply #56 on: May 26, 2021, 03:42:36 pm »
0

Ok. Fair points. Completely mis-remembered Pageant. Thanks for the feedback.

I still think basic idea of an event that converts unspent coin to coffers is a valid one, but obviously the exchange rate needs to be moved towards making coffers more expensive I will have another think.

What about something like: "When you buy a card this turn costing $4 or more, you may overpay for it..."
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gambit05

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #116: Make me *less* special
« Reply #57 on: May 26, 2021, 03:46:40 pm »
+1



Gourmet - Treasure - $7*
+3 Coffers
+1 buy
-
You can't buy this if you have Coffers.


Uses Grand Market's you can't buy if you have...

Do I understand it correctly that you can use Coffers for buying Gourmet?
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fika monster

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #116: Make me *less* special
« Reply #58 on: May 26, 2021, 04:34:23 pm »
+2



Gourmet - Treasure - $7*
+3 Coffers
+1 buy
-
You can't buy this if you have Coffers.


Uses Grand Market's you can't buy if you have...

Easy fix: Have it be "you cant buy this if you started your Buy phase with coffers". This way, the spirit of the limitation remains, but you cant just spend them before buying this.
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Jupaoqq

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #116: Make me *less* special
« Reply #59 on: May 26, 2021, 04:52:40 pm »
0



Gourmet - Treasure - $7*
+3 Coffers
+1 buy
-
You can't buy this if you have Coffers.


Uses Grand Market's you can't buy if you have...

Do I understand it correctly that you can use Coffers for buying Gourmet?

You can not use coffers to buy gourmet, it costs $7.
You may not buy this if you currently have any coffers, including coffers from other gourmets you played during your buy phase.
At the start of your buy phase, you may convert all your coffers to $ to buy this (and other things).
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Gubump

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #116: Make me *less* special
« Reply #60 on: May 26, 2021, 05:00:28 pm »
+1

You can not use coffers to buy gourmet, it costs $7.
At the start of your buy phase, you may convert all your coffers to $ to buy this (and other things).

So that would be yes, not a no...
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emtzalex

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #116: Make me *less* special
« Reply #61 on: May 26, 2021, 05:04:29 pm »
0



Gourmet - Treasure - $7*
+3 Coffers
+1 buy
-
You can't buy this if you have Coffers.


Uses Grand Market's you can't buy if you have...

Do I understand it correctly that you can use Coffers for buying Gourmet?

You can not use coffers to buy gourmet, it costs $7.
You may not buy this if you currently have any coffers, including coffers from other gourmets you played during your buy phase.
At the start of your buy phase, you may convert all your coffers to $ to buy this (and other things).

No, this is not correct. Coffers can be removed any time "During you Buy phase, before you buy anything," including after you have played Treasures. Thus, a player could play Gourmet, cash out their Coffers (and any acquired previously) and buy another Gourmet (provided they had at least $4 more, either from those Coffers or from other sources).
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Jupaoqq

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #116: Make me *less* special
« Reply #62 on: May 26, 2021, 05:11:12 pm »
0



Gourmet - Treasure - $7*
+3 Coffers
+1 buy
-
You can't buy this if you have Coffers.


Uses Grand Market's you can't buy if you have...

Do I understand it correctly that you can use Coffers for buying Gourmet?

You can not use coffers to buy gourmet, it costs $7.
You may not buy this if you currently have any coffers, including coffers from other gourmets you played during your buy phase.
At the start of your buy phase, you may convert all your coffers to $ to buy this (and other things).

No, this is not correct. Coffers can be removed any time "During you Buy phase, before you buy anything," including after you have played Treasures. Thus, a player could play Gourmet, cash out their Coffers (and any acquired previously) and buy another Gourmet (provided they had at least $4 more, either from those Coffers or from other sources).

Thanks, that part is incorrect, but you still can't spend say 3 coffers and $4 on this, you can however convert 3 coffers before your buy phase start, now you have $7 and can buy this.
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Gubump

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #116: Make me *less* special
« Reply #63 on: May 26, 2021, 05:15:08 pm »
0



Gourmet - Treasure - $7*
+3 Coffers
+1 buy
-
You can't buy this if you have Coffers.


Uses Grand Market's you can't buy if you have...

Do I understand it correctly that you can use Coffers for buying Gourmet?

You can not use coffers to buy gourmet, it costs $7.
You may not buy this if you currently have any coffers, including coffers from other gourmets you played during your buy phase.
At the start of your buy phase, you may convert all your coffers to $ to buy this (and other things).

No, this is not correct. Coffers can be removed any time "During you Buy phase, before you buy anything," including after you have played Treasures. Thus, a player could play Gourmet, cash out their Coffers (and any acquired previously) and buy another Gourmet (provided they had at least $4 more, either from those Coffers or from other sources).

Thanks, that part is incorrect, but you still can't spend say 3 coffers and $4 on this, you can however convert 3 coffers before your buy phase start, now you have $7 and can buy this.

You can't convert Coffers before your Buy phase starts.
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Jupaoqq

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #116: Make me *less* special
« Reply #64 on: May 26, 2021, 05:19:05 pm »
0



Gourmet - Treasure - $7*
+3 Coffers
+1 buy
-
You can't buy this if you have Coffers.


Uses Grand Market's you can't buy if you have...

Do I understand it correctly that you can use Coffers for buying Gourmet?

You can not use coffers to buy gourmet, it costs $7.
You may not buy this if you currently have any coffers, including coffers from other gourmets you played during your buy phase.
At the start of your buy phase, you may convert all your coffers to $ to buy this (and other things).

No, this is not correct. Coffers can be removed any time "During you Buy phase, before you buy anything," including after you have played Treasures. Thus, a player could play Gourmet, cash out their Coffers (and any acquired previously) and buy another Gourmet (provided they had at least $4 more, either from those Coffers or from other sources).

Thanks, that part is incorrect, but you still can't spend say 3 coffers and $4 on this, you can however convert 3 coffers before your buy phase start, now you have $7 and can buy this.

You can't convert Coffers before your Buy phase starts.

At the start of your buy phase, I meant
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Gubump

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #116: Make me *less* special
« Reply #65 on: May 26, 2021, 05:22:23 pm »
+3



Gourmet - Treasure - $7*
+3 Coffers
+1 buy
-
You can't buy this if you have Coffers.


Uses Grand Market's you can't buy if you have...

Do I understand it correctly that you can use Coffers for buying Gourmet?

You can not use coffers to buy gourmet, it costs $7.
You may not buy this if you currently have any coffers, including coffers from other gourmets you played during your buy phase.
At the start of your buy phase, you may convert all your coffers to $ to buy this (and other things).

No, this is not correct. Coffers can be removed any time "During you Buy phase, before you buy anything," including after you have played Treasures. Thus, a player could play Gourmet, cash out their Coffers (and any acquired previously) and buy another Gourmet (provided they had at least $4 more, either from those Coffers or from other sources).

Thanks, that part is incorrect, but you still can't spend say 3 coffers and $4 on this, you can however convert 3 coffers before your buy phase start, now you have $7 and can buy this.

If you think that "converting 3 Coffers to $ so you have $7" means something different from "spending 3 Coffers and $4", you're being way overly pedantic even for f.ds standards. That's like correcting someone who says "spending a Villager to play an Action" by saying "um, actually, what you mean is you're spending a Villager to get +1 Action, and then spending that Action to play an Action card." Sure, you're technically correct, but you know what we meant.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2021, 05:26:35 pm by Gubump »
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LastFootnote

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #116: Make me *less* special
« Reply #66 on: May 26, 2021, 06:03:45 pm »
+2

Basically, the Buy restriction is toothless and the card is too strong.

I don't understand how this is the case. Having to cash in all your Coffers in order to buy another Gourmet seems like a penalty to me. You may have wanted to save some of those.
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xyz123

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #116: Make me *less* special
« Reply #67 on: May 26, 2021, 06:30:44 pm »
0

Carnival
Event -

+1 Buy
+1 Coffers

When you buy this you may overpay for it. For each you overpaid +1 Coffers



I withdrew my previous entry and I am submitting this instead.
The unique mechanic I am using is from Pageant which allows you to convert unspent money into coffers, but I am doing it as an event instead of a project. You can convert any number of coins but you always get back 1 fewer coffers.
This is far too good. You can simply save all but one of your Coins when you don't hit $8 in the endgame, no need to go for Duchies at all.

That also applies if you have bought Pageant. Or does having to buy Pageant justify that ability?
HuH? Pageants saves ONE Coin. Your card saves ALL BUT ONE Coin. That is beyond crazy. If you hit anything below $8 in the endgame, you will never ever buy Duchy but simply save for a Province (or two) next turn.

Yeah. I believe Pageant originally let you convert all your leftover coins into Coffers. I showed that was crazy pretty quickly. After maybe buying a Silver or two, you just save all your money and only buy Provinces. No need to build a deck at all. It's very fast.

Possibly your version that makes you pay $1 for the privilege of saving the rest is less crazy, but I'm not optimistic.

I have edited my original post to remove the overpay option and the + buy. It is now spend 2 coins for 1 coffer. Obviously the option is still potentially there to buy it multiple times, but that will need multiple buys. Even if there are some scenarios where that can be very fast I don't see that as a problem any more as you will need to build a deck to reliably give the +buys to support it.

Thanks again for the feedback. Much appreciated.
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emtzalex

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #116: Make me *less* special
« Reply #68 on: May 26, 2021, 07:37:51 pm »
+1


Gourmet - Treasure - $7*
+3 Coffers
+1 buy
-
You can't buy this if you have Coffers.

Uses Grand Market's you can't buy if you have...
Do I understand it correctly that you can use Coffers for buying Gourmet?
You can not use coffers to buy gourmet, it costs $7.
You may not buy this if you currently have any coffers, including coffers from other gourmets you played during your buy phase.
At the start of your buy phase, you may convert all your coffers to $ to buy this (and other things).
No, this is not correct. Coffers can be removed any time "During you Buy phase, before you buy anything," including after you have played Treasures. Thus, a player could play Gourmet, cash out their Coffers (and any acquired previously) and buy another Gourmet (provided they had at least $4 more, either from those Coffers or from other sources).
Thanks, that part is incorrect, but you still can't spend say 3 coffers and $4 on this, you can however convert 3 coffers before your buy phase start, now you have $7 and can buy this.
At the start of your buy phase, I meant

I think you are still misunderstanding the rule. It is not that you can cash in Coffers at the start of your buy phase. It is that during your Buy phase, you can play Treasure cards and cash in Coffers until the first time you Buy a card anything during the phase. This is true even if you did not have those Treasure cards/Coffers when the Buy phase began.

So, if you play all of your Treasures, then use Scepter (played last) to replay a Torturer, and the cards you draw include other Treasures, you can play those as well (if you drew another Scepter, you could play Torturer a third time, and if you drew more Treasures, play those as well). Similarly, if (starting your Buy phase with no Coffers) you play two Silvers and a Ducat, you could then cash in the Coffers you got from Ducat and buy something costing $5 (or one thing costing $2 and another thing costing $3).

Therefore, (starting your Buy phase with no Coffers) you could play two Silvers and a Gourmet, cash in the 3 Coffers you just gained, and (now that you do not have any Coffers on your mat), buy a Gourmet.

If you think that "converting 3 Coffers to $ so you have $7" means something different from "spending 3 Coffers and $4", you're being way overly pedantic even for f.ds standards. That's like correcting someone who says "spending a Villager to play an Action" by saying "um, actually, what you mean is you're spending a Villager to get +1 Action, and then spending that Action to play an Action card." Sure, you're technically correct, but you know what we meant.

I may be wrong, but I don't think this is a matter of being pedantic, I think it's a continued misunderstanding of the rules (although Jupaoqq can correct me if I am wrong).

Basically, the Buy restriction is toothless and the card is too strong.

I don't understand how this is the case. Having to cash in all your Coffers in order to buy another Gourmet seems like a penalty to me. You may have wanted to save some of those.

I would say that the Buy restriction is substantially less significant than the one on Grand Market. Most notably, while in most cases the first Grand Market is the hardest to buy because of the restrictions, here, the first Gourmet you buy will, in most cases, be completely unaffected by the Buy restriction. I could see where, in Colonies games or (even more so), a Kingdom with Dominate, you might want to both be piling up Coffers and buying more of these for a blockbuster purchase (and there could be other circumstances where you are trying to set up a megaturn and want keep buying these and building up Coffers for the same reason).

Outside those circumstances, the context in which forcing you to empty your Coffers would be most burdensome would be where some of the $ you gain goes to waste. That risk is substantially mitigated by the fact that this card has a +Buy (although not entirely, since you might be trying to buy another Gourmet on a different turn from when you played the last one, and also if your Treasure + Coffers hits $9, there may not be any $2 cards you want). It is similarly mitigated by the fact that this costs $1 less than a Province, so if you overshoot by one you can buy a Province instead (with, of course, the risk of greening too early).

On the other hand, I think Gourmet would not be nearly as overpowered at $7 without a restriction as Grand Market would be at $6, so the on-Buy penalty should be at least somewhat less onerous (but maybe not this light).
« Last Edit: May 26, 2021, 07:40:25 pm by emtzalex »
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mxdata

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #116: Make me *less* special
« Reply #69 on: May 26, 2021, 09:48:07 pm »
0

Basically, the Buy restriction is toothless and the card is too strong.

I don't understand how this is the case. Having to cash in all your Coffers in order to buy another Gourmet seems like a penalty to me. You may have wanted to save some of those.

Yeah, having to cash in all your Coffers may sometimes be a fairly harsh penalty, depending on the kingdom - especially if you have cards like Baker that let you accumulate a good number of Coffers, and no other +buy
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Xen3k

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #116: Make me *less* special
« Reply #70 on: May 26, 2021, 10:44:33 pm »
+2



Quote
Smithing Camp - 4 Debt
Action - Night
+2 Actions
You may discard your hand to gain a card to your hand costing up to $1 per card discarded. If you gain a Victory card, trash this.

Unique elements: 4 Debt cost and Action/Night card type. I am not too sure about this design, but have been having trouble getting inspiration. I am not sure if the wording on the gain effect is appropriate with the use of the term "in coins"? Additionally, I had the goal of making an Action/Night card that did not reference those phases but still be meaningfully different when played in either phase. I hope that was achieved, but I am not sure. Feedback is appreciated.

Edit 1: Slight buff, the discard is not mandatory and the gain is better. Changed the wording a bit. Still is awkward to read. Not sure if there is a better way to word it.

Edit 2: Quick update to wording at the suggestion of emtalax. This looks much better. Artificer is the reference I needed. Thanks to Timinou as well.

Old Version

« Last Edit: May 27, 2021, 12:48:25 pm by Xen3k »
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Gubump

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #116: Make me *less* special
« Reply #71 on: May 27, 2021, 01:09:30 am »
+1

I am not sure if the wording on the gain effect is appropriate with the use of the term "in coins"?

Official cards use the phrasing "in ."
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #116: Make me *less* special
« Reply #72 on: May 27, 2021, 04:14:24 am »
+1

two card ideas: Not sure what to go with right now. Would appreciate feedback/thoughts.

Aristocrat

Unique's: Costs 8 like prince, draws 5 cards like RBS, Can be gained via a victory card gain like duchess
A massive drawer, but while RBS discards coppers and punishes a poorly thinned deck, this one topdecks any revealed Victory cards and topdecks them. One one hand, this is bad and you would like this to not happen. on another, you might want to go for its "gain a province" effect that happens as a "consultation prize" if you happen to kill your next turn with 5 revealed victory cards or more.

Flippant City

Uniques: only card to care about even or Odd number of cards in play (like Idol)
This happened to become quite similar to Dilemma, an earlier WDC card I made. THis one is instead based on timing then on if you have a surplus of actions: Drawing one Flippant city is pointless in itself, but if you manage to get several of them, you can get a massive turn.

Coffee House

'Uniques: UUUUUHHH... Its the only card that makes you draw fewer cards next turn like outpost? Please tell me if this is Illegall for this weeks WDC
Oh hey, a city for 3$! nice! Wait... you draw one less card next turn? that sucks! I guess its like coffee... Energy now, but a crash later!

On most boards you would at most want two or 3 of these: Attack heavy boards like militia or discard cards like it this would be appealing. Obvious synergies with draw to X, Guide, Outpost, And mission.


Instead of giving feedback, I have two questions:

1) Don't you think it is a bit of an overkill to present 3 different cards in a single contest?

It gets a bit frustrating to comment on your cards since you often change them faster than one can think about them. Please don't misunderstand me here. The least thing I want is to discourage you from designing and presenting your cards, but less is sometimes more.

2) With question 1 in mind, I would like to ask you: Which of these is your favourite card and why?
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spineflu

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #116: Make me *less* special
« Reply #73 on: May 27, 2021, 09:20:54 am »
+1


Quote
Shipyard $3 Action
For each token on the Trade Route mat, choose a different option: +1 Card; +1 Action; +1 Buy; +$1; +1 Villager; or +1 Coffers.
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Setup: Add a Coin token to each Victory Supply pile; move that token to the Trade Route mat when a card is gained from the pile.

The de-uniquifying factor is the (re)use of the Trade Route mat.
When used with Trade Route, you put two coins on each victory pile (that is, you follow both of their instructions).
As always, you do as much as you can - if there are more than six tokens on the trade route mat, it's just a super-market, you don't get to double dip.
If there are no tokens on the trade route mat, this card doesn't do anything. Gotta set it up.

I kind of wanted to make the price scale based on the TR mat, but that set up clause is brutal, and the card didn't need to be any longer.

Revising my entry:

Quote
Shipyards $4 Action
For each token on the Trade Route mat, +1 Card.
If there are 3 or fewer tokens on the Trade Route mat, +1 Action.
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Setup: Add a Coin token to each Treasure Supply pile; move that token to the Trade Route mat when a card is gained from the pile.

note the changed set up that uses Treasure supply piles rather than Victory supply piles. Will still interact beneficially with original trade route but with fewer questions about whether to move one or two tokens.

Timinou

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #116: Make me *less* special
« Reply #74 on: May 27, 2021, 10:17:24 am »
+1



Quote
Smithing Camp - 4 Debt
Action - Night
+2 Actions
Discard your hand. Gain to your hand a card costing less in coins than the number of cards discarded. If you gain a Victory card, trash this.

Unique elements: 4 Debt cost and Action/Night card type. I am not too sure about this design, but have been having trouble getting inspiration. I am not sure if the wording on the gain effect is appropriate with the use of the term "in coins"? Additionally, I had the goal of making an Action/Night card that did not reference those phases but still be meaningfully different when played in either phase. I hope that was achieved, but I am not sure. Feedback is appreciated.

I like the concept, but Smithing Camp seems weak overall.  You can play cards like Scholar when you have few or no other cards in hand to pretty good effect, but with Smithing Camp you won't want to play it in such situations, otherwise you could end up junking your deck.  Moreover, you won't usually want to play it when you have good cards in hand as that will kill your turn for not much payoff.  The exception could be Kingdoms with draw-to-X cards (e.g. play Smithing Camp to gain a Watchtower), but even then I don't think it is an exceptionally strong combo.  Even in the Night phase, this isn't going to be a particularly good gainer - you need to have five cards left in hand for it to be able to gain a $4-cost card. 

I think it needs to be buffed (e.g. make discarding your hand optional, so that you can play this as a Necropolis in your Action phase and not gain any cards, and/or let it gain a card costing up to a cost in coins equal to, rather than less than, the number of cards you discarded).
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