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[WestCoastDidds]

MiX, would you care to share your thoughts on EFHW. Or at least your thoughts about my thoughts on EFHW. I am willing to switch, but I don't want to be capricious.

[Dylan32]

Pubby iso.

vote: iguanaiguana

RVS? Or in response to Iguana's one post?

Iguana!!!

Man, I know that I’ve missed a few games now, but what’s the last one you were in??

Looking at my own post history... I last played a game in September of 2018.

My goal this run around is to be a bit less of a jerk.

Vote: Lalight.

Having an IC leads to really good PoE that he is scum.

*flavor joke after vote count*

Ok, time for an embarassing post.

Lalight is not playing

I just realized this... right now. I think when I cast my first vote, I had just scanned the players and saw LL's name. Then for some reason Joth decided to make my vote for his comod count in the vote totals... which validated my feelings of LL playing this game. Today I looked to try to figure out why he hadn't posted yet... and ... yeah... Lol, I failed.

In other words you felt obligated to vote for someone in your opening post and didn't care who. Scummy much?

So I don't know if pubby's initial vote was because he caught that LL wasn't in the game and already thought it, or if the vote was RVS and he was able to use this to justify it.

I've been somewhat suspicious of glooble. Their first few posts were terse and seemed like they were just going through the motions. Then they jump into an argument with faust, acting defensively when the actual topic of discussion didn't require it.

But for now I'm fine with parking my vote on iguana. Swowl I read as town.

FoS on Glooble for going through the motions, but reading Glooble doesn't actually give me that impression. One thing I did see was that Glooble's 3rd or so post was a vote on pubby for the sake of building some wagons, so the Glooble FoS is actually kind of OMGUS.

This shouldn’t be a choice between Glooble and me.

Yeah it's awful. I would vote for both of you if I could 

Glooble is a really bad vote. I'm at work so kinda busy today. Yes I knew Didds, I maybe didn't play with her quite as much as the others

What makes him a really bad vote? This is d1. Our decisions can't be *that* informed.

At what point do I claim, given that once my role is revealed we will need time to find an alternate wagon?

You just hinted you have an important role, no? That's almost as bad as a full claim.

And here in posts #318 GID is already complete. Literally those are the 3 people he interacts with here. This is also pubby's last post before the deadline.

Then he leads off with the first post of D2:

Scum team is Glooble, Iguana, Didds. Didds is the most obvious one.

There was some panic in the scum team early on with wagons around Glooble and Didds. They rallied to save each other, then hopped on the first alternative wagons. This is why all three voted late.

Vote: Didds

I doubt I'll be active much tomorrow BTW.

The next post defends the case, and the final post considers replacing iguana with faust in the theory due to some partnery looking comments. That is pubby's whole game.

ppe 5

[MiX]

MiX, would you care to share your thoughts on EFHW. Or at least your thoughts about my thoughts on EFHW. I am willing to switch, but I don't want to be capricious.

I think no one has looked at EFHW, and I can't find scum, so it would make sense that I haven't looked at scum yet, which would make EFHW scum. Also they can easily flip today if town is truly scumreading them.

[Dylan32]

There's just not a lot there, but that little amount of content, he sure started a lot of conversations between other people. So I don't think that would be the worst exile, and I am still leaning scum there, but there's just not a lot of content there to judge, and while I still think pubby could be scum, I could also see the low-activity town narrative there too.

[Dylan32]

There's just not a lot there, but that little amount of content, he sure started a lot of conversations between other people. So I don't think that would be the worst exile, and I am still leaning scum there, but there's just not a lot of content there to judge, and while I still think pubby could be scum, I could also see the low-activity town narrative there too.

To be clear, this was meant to follow off of my pubby iso, not the other convo that is happening.

[WestCoastDidds]

MiX, would you care to share your thoughts on EFHW. Or at least your thoughts about my thoughts on EFHW. I am willing to switch, but I don't want to be capricious.

I think no one has looked at EFHW, and I can't find scum, so it would make sense that I haven't looked at scum yet, which would make EFHW scum. Also they can easily flip today if town is truly scumreading them.

Well, that says you hadn't looked at her so POE. Have you looked at her since then? Or taken a look at what I found?

[MiX]

MiX, would you care to share your thoughts on EFHW. Or at least your thoughts about my thoughts on EFHW. I am willing to switch, but I don't want to be capricious.

I think no one has looked at EFHW, and I can't find scum, so it would make sense that I haven't looked at scum yet, which would make EFHW scum. Also they can easily flip today if town is truly scumreading them.

Well, that says you hadn't looked at her so POE. Have you looked at her since then? Or taken a look at what I found?

I've skimmed your post, will read it after I reread EFHW.

[pubby]

I dunno if I'll be around for the exile, but I'm voting for the GFD group:

Vote: Glooble

[Galzria]

Had a work call. Off now. Back to re-read.

[WestCoastDidds]

I just saw your kickstarter link, pubby. I'm bummed I missed it. I'd totally have backed you!

[iguanaiguana]

Going to work. Won't be available except the hour before deadline which is luckily my lunch hour

[Glooble]

I didn't realize the deadline was so late. My class ends at 8:30, but then I have an unfamiliar bus route to navigate. Still I should be able to get online half an hour before the deadline if not a bit sooner.

[EFHW]

Didds' reading of me is inaccurate. It feels hastily done. I did not have a naked vote on e. The post just previous to the vote explained my thinking. There were not 7 posts on Glooble. Surely you don't object to my making the case in the first place. There were 5 posts after that. One processing the misreading of reasons. Another defending my second point. The third is me ending the case.  Then I had to respond to MiX accusing me of shading Glooble. And finally, I answered MiX's question. Which posts do you find excessive? Also, the "things I noticed" were reasons I would vote Glooble, not the reason I didn't. They became the case I presented today.

I have acknowledged and apologized for my absence EOD1. I got wrapped up in a project and lost track of time. I recognize that town had less flexibility without me there.

Part of my scumhunting D1 was scumreading you for not scumhunting. So how do we make sense of that?

[EFHW]

Actually.

Vote: EFHW

Awaclus was town. I have reasons to not want to exile WCD/faust today that will hopefully resolve themselves over the next few game days. If they are both town, then EFHW is the last person on my wagon. As I don't think pubby is scum, and I doubt all scum were on e (although entirely possible), that leaves EFHW by process of elimination.

This doesn't follow logically. I'm the only one left from your wagon because you are undecided about Didds and faust. So how does that lead to POE that I must be scum? If we discovered they were both town, then your argument would apply, though it stills rests on the assumption that all the scum wouldn't be on e.

[WestCoastDidds]

Didds' reading of me is inaccurate. It feels hastily done. I did not have a naked vote on e. The post just previous to the vote explained my thinking. There were not 7 posts on Glooble. Surely you don't object to my making the case in the first place. There were 5 posts after that. One processing the misreading of reasons. Another defending my second point. The third is me ending the case.  Then I had to respond to MiX accusing me of shading Glooble. And finally, I answered MiX's question. Which posts do you find excessive? Also, the "things I noticed" were reasons I would vote Glooble, not the reason I didn't. They became the case I presented today.

I have acknowledged and apologized for my absence EOD1. I got wrapped up in a project and lost track of time. I recognize that town had less flexibility without me there.

Part of my scumhunting D1 was scumreading you for not scumhunting. So how do we make sense of that?

Not hastily done, but definitely distractedly since I am multitasking during a boring faculty meeting. Thanks for the clarification on the things about Glooble.

PPE: 1

[EFHW]

who brought up the mass claim orginally?

Got it. OK E! also skum points then.

Short days!

@e, what made you think of massclaim, anyway? They are usually disasters for town Day 1.

phishy.

These don't seem contradictory, but Swowl call's e's suggestion to massclaim scummy, but also calls EFHW scummy for asking why e wanted to massclaim. I'm not sure the logic seems entirely compatible, even if it's not contradictory.

logic was/is E! skummy for bringing it up and then EFHW skummy for bringing it back up. which in hindsight, since E! was Town... makes EFHW's stand out a little more.

Would I be less scummy if he had flipped scum? I didn't know his alignment, so I would have done the same thing either way.

[Swowl]

Actually.

Vote: EFHW

Awaclus was town. I have reasons to not want to exile WCD/faust today that will hopefully resolve themselves over the next few game days. If they are both town, then EFHW is the last person on my wagon. As I don't think pubby is scum, and I doubt all scum were on e (although entirely possible), that leaves EFHW by process of elimination.

interesting. what do you make of Glooble/II hopping back and forth then?

[Swowl]

who brought up the mass claim orginally?

Got it. OK E! also skum points then.

Short days!

@e, what made you think of massclaim, anyway? They are usually disasters for town Day 1.

phishy.

These don't seem contradictory, but Swowl call's e's suggestion to massclaim scummy, but also calls EFHW scummy for asking why e wanted to massclaim. I'm not sure the logic seems entirely compatible, even if it's not contradictory.

logic was/is E! skummy for bringing it up and then EFHW skummy for bringing it back up. which in hindsight, since E! was Town... makes EFHW's stand out a little more.

Would I be less scummy if he had flipped scum? I didn't know his alignment, so I would have done the same thing either way.

fun question... uhm - yes? Not like "not skummy", but yes, less skummy.  I guess I would think that while it is likely that someone discussing mass claim is skum that not necessarily everyone discussing it has to be skum.

[Galzria]

Putting it out there as to why I'm suspicious of Glooble:



So D1, at it's peak, Glooble's wagon had 3 votes:

Glooble (3): WestCoastDidds, Dylan32, MiX

Shortly before that, MiX asked everybody to chime in on their feelings regarding Glooble. Going to grab those responses as I see them.

I've been somewhat suspicious of glooble. Their first few posts were terse and seemed like they were just going through the motions. Then they jump into an argument with faust, acting defensively when the actual topic of discussion didn't require it.

But for now I'm fine with parking my vote on iguana. Swowl I read as town.

Pubby - suspicious of Glooble

Swowl doesn't find Glooble scummy.

And that's generally it.

So we have, voting Glooble or finding him scummy: MiX, WCD, Dylan, pubby
And we have not finding him scummy: Swowl

Moving on, this next post is an extremely scummy response.

Vote: Glooble

This is a bad way to go today.

What exactly have I been doing today that isn't consistent with my normal day 1 playstyle?

I know it's taboo to talk about what PR related reasons Glooble might've been referring to in the below post, and I know that now he's tried to explain this way multiple times now... but let's be honest - this is early D1 without anything claimed. Hinting at any sort of PR reasoning (especially one that has now been said to be extremely weak and silly) seems... off.

I'm never useful day 1. I usually can't develop scumreads this early. I voted for pubby in the hopes of starting a pubby wagon not because I necessarily thought he was scum, but because I thought he might be scum and it might provide useful interactions. I also had a reason for thinking he was a teensy bit more likely to be scum than others who already had votes on them, and I wam not interested in sharing that reason atm.

After that I highlighted two posts that felt a little off to me in the hopes of spurring discussion. I honestly expected more people to agree with me about faust, but apparently this is an area where I differ from most of the players on this forum so that ended up leading no where. Other than that all I've done is try to defend myself.

This next post by Iguana could be taken to indicate he's in the town-reading bucket on Glooble.

Glooble then quickly joins iguana on WCD:

I'll get on the Didds wagon. It's a better case than any of the other ones I've seen.

vote: WestCoastDidds

This vote by Math actually puts Glooble at 4, I believe, but it's slipped in between VC's so the (4) was never recorded:

Regarding the Glooble, WCD, and Swowl votes, even though they are regulars, I don't really have reads on them (or EFHW) D1... they don't stand out to me much, one way or another. For those 4, I'm not seeing things that I interpret as scummy.

For the moment, I'll have to trust our IC and not vote Didds (don't get used to it, MiX!)

I'm getting a gut feel that faust is scum, and there's connections between him and both Awaclus and Glooble, so keep an eye, possibly on 2 or all 3 of those.

I'd rather vote faust or go back to e. But to keep another wagon going, for now, I'll
vote: Glooble

faust won't vote Glooble:

I will accept no exile before I vote for either Didds or Glooble.

EFHW "found some things", but doesn't want to exile Glooble:

I reread Glooble. There were some things that I noticed, but I don't want to exile him today.

vote: Galzria.

This post by MiX is an important point - as I know I'm town, e was town, and I would rather exile Glooble between WCD/Glooble right now.

As it stands... I think we probably maybe have a T v T situation with the two exiles with scum voting on both wagons. I don't know but that's my gut feeling right now -.-

That was my sense and why I moved off Glooble

Not the previous half wagons of WCD V Glooble... which also COULD have been T v T. I'm talking about the current wagons of e vs. Galzria.

Just pick the scum out of Didds/Glooble/e/Galzria. Unless you're saying they're all T? In which case, what a day this has been.

-----

This brings us up to the end of the day stuff, and covers most people's opinions. Obviously there has been a lot of talk around Glooble. A lot of scum reads, a lot of won't vote Glooble reads.

The next two posts (along with Dylan jumping in on the conversation) was what really jumped out to me at the end of day yesterday:

I think a lot of time N1 actions are pretty much blind, and the best way for people to direct their actions is based on a flip.  I have historically been a huge advocate of D1 exiles, going so far as to hammer myself as town to ensure an exile went through on D1. (on a side note - town did win and I like to think my self-exile contributed to that)

That is not the situation here.  I think there is enough to go on between Galzria and myself, plus other wagons and opinions on Swowl, Didds, and others to give people enough to make informed N1 action choices.

That and the very high likelihood of a multiple-death night either N1 or sometime in the future

I find it ironic that we've run up two wagons and gotten two claims of roles that either wouldn't hurt town too much to lose or would be convenient fake claims for scum, and it still seems like we are moving away from exiling either of them. Like I get it if we unfortunately hit a doc or a cop or something, but if we weren't going to exile either of e or galz after claiming these roles, were we ever going to exile anyone?

Exactly!

Also, I stil want to see an exile happen. I'd rather it is e as it seems like a very low risk, potential fake claim. But I'd jump to Galz, Didds, or even Swowl to get one.

Obviously e was town, so whatever - but at the time I found it really strange that given all the talk and opinions on Glooble throughout the day, all of a sudden he wasn't on anybody's list when considering other wagons that weren't myself or e.

Looking back at it all and in more detail... It's not as strong a read as I thought it was. But it's where my head was at at the end of the day yesterday. /shrug

[Swowl]

Height of WCD and Glooble wagons were:

WCD (4) - Galzria, iguanaiguana, Glooble, EFHW
Glooble (4): WestCoastDidds, Dylan32, MiX, Mathdude

fast forward.

Vote Count 1.4
2.71828.... (4): Swowl, Awaclus, MiX, Glooble
Galzria (3): faust, 2.71828...., WestCoastDidds
WestCoastDidds (3): Galzria, iguanaiguana, EFHW
Glooble (1): Dylan32
iguanaiguana (1): pubby
faust (1): mathdude

then...

Vote Count 1.4.MiX
2.71828.... (5): Swowl, Awaclus, Glooble, mathdude, Galzria
Galzria (4): faust, 2.71828...., WestCoastDidds, MiX
WestCoastDidds (1): iguanaiguana
Glooble (1): Dylan32
iguanaiguana (1): pubby
Not voting (1): EFHW
--- 7 hours out ---

then...

Vote Count 1.5
2.71828.... (6): Swowl, Awaclus, Glooble, mathdude, Galzria, Dylan32 (L-1)
Galzria (5): faust, 2.71828...., WestCoastDidds, MiX, EFHW (L-2)
Swowl (1): iguanaiguana
iguanaiguana (1): pubby
--- 4 hours out ---

ok last-ish one, stick with me here...

Vote Count 1.MiX
Galzria (5): faust, 2.71828...., WestCoastDidds, EFHW, Awaclus
2.71828.... (4): Swowl, Glooble, mathdude, Dylan32
WestCoastDidds (2): MiX, Galzria
Swowl (1): iguanaiguana
iguanaiguana (1): pubby
7 to exile. 3 hours to deadline.

- Ok so right after this VC a few things happen...
1) E! votes no exile and then leaves for the night.
2) Awaclus has left for the night
3) faust is gone for the night
4) pubby is assumed gone for the night.

So I am gonna act on the assumption that Galzria is town on this one. Obviously, if I am wrong then this is all negated. But I am moderately confident in my read.
If galz is town and we did in fact have TVT wagons here, this created an interesting situation when MiX and Galz moved to WCD and then E! did not move to Galz (instead to nox).

Galz is not going to move to Galz. I know he said he would, but you know... He also claims here.
MiX stated they do not want to lynch E! He said Galz and/or E! but then brings up just exiling Galz after the claim.
WCD is pretty hard set on Galz.
Swowl has clearly stated they are not going for Galz over E!
faust checked out
pubby is gone
awaclus checked out
E checked out.

OK whatever... point is that in a world where it was TVT wagons, this combination of players that are gone and/or not going to move would make skum need to consolidate. And, as faust and Awaclus are both gone and both on Galz... the clear choice would be to go for Galz.

Iguana goes to galz
Glooble moves from E! to Galz - that is an eyebrow raise.

That brings us here...

Vote Count 1.?.MiX
Galzria (6): faust, WestCoastDidds, EFHW, Awaclus, Glooble, iguanaiguana
2.71828.... (3): Swowl, mathdude, Dylan32
iguanaiguana (1): pubby
Glooble (1): Galzria
No exile (2): 2.71828...., MiX

- WCD then does in fact unvote Galz. But just to come back to him later.
- Galz then jumps on E! (bring it to E@4/Galz@5)
- Glooble goes BACK to E!, flipping the 5-4 wagons.

Didds Count
Galzria (4): faust, EFHW, Awaclus, iguanaiguana
2.71828.... (5): Swowl, mathdude, Dylan32, Galz, Glooble
iguanaiguana (1): pubby
No exile/not voting  (3): 2.71828...., MiX, WCD

-II moves to E
- WCD back to Galz
- MiX hammers


TLDR; If galz is town then I think his wagon was saturated at some point. Since E! was town, I think his wagon was saturated at some point. Instead of looking at the campers, we can look at the last minute movers back and forth because they HAD to move based on players alive to get a lynch off if it was TVT based on statements and people that were around. That makes me suspicious of Glooble and II.

PPE 1

[Swowl]

Vote: Glooble

I have to go to work but I will be around.

[Galzria]

Actually.

Vote: EFHW

Awaclus was town. I have reasons to not want to exile WCD/faust today that will hopefully resolve themselves over the next few game days. If they are both town, then EFHW is the last person on my wagon. As I don't think pubby is scum, and I doubt all scum were on e (although entirely possible), that leaves EFHW by process of elimination.

interesting. what do you make of Glooble/II hopping back and forth then?

I don't think it's alignment indicative. Both wagons were town. Scum doesn't care which wagon goes off. It's a mixed bag of points - being around and present and helping the exile go through is generally townie. Exiling town is generally scummy. Exiling is both a pro-town and a pro-scum action.

[MiX]

Someone with more time and patience than me write a wall post about how faust and Didds are partnered. I don't think I can write one today.

[Galzria]

Someone with more time and patience than me write a wall post about how faust and Didds are partnered. I don't think I can write one today.

I don't have the time to do it right now (I'm here until deadline, but will be moving to mobile in 30-45 minutes). However, I acknowledge that such a wall can be written.

[mathdude]

I'm still on the road driving home. Stopping for dinner in 15 minutes. I likely won't have time to read up on 7 pages, but I will skim.

Can someone give me a short summary of the last 3.5 days, current vote count, and deadline? Thanks.