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Author Topic: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia  (Read 44805 times)

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WestCoastDidds

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #750 on: September 02, 2021, 09:04:30 am »

Iím rereading this morning, mostly with an eye toward EFHW, Dylan, and Swowl.

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jotheonah

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #751 on: September 02, 2021, 10:01:00 am »


Using a Crystal Ball, Glinda has set up a three-way conference call between Dorothy & friends, the Munchkins, and the Emerald City.

"First the Lollipop Guild leader, then my Doorman! The Witches are getting too bold!" bellows Oz.

"Agreed!" squeaks the Mayor. "We may have gotten it wrong with the Lion, but that's OK, his bubble will probably float back here eventually. In the meantime we've got to find the real witches! I suggest we choose someone to exile by the end of the day!"

"Oh my," says Dorothy. "People form angry mobs so quickly here!"


Vote Count 2.4

Dylan32 (3): WestCoastDidds, iguanaiguana, Swowl
Glooble (2): Galzria, Dylan32
pubby (2): EFHW, Glooble
WestCoastDidds (1): pubby
EFHW (1): MiX
Swowl (1): faust

Not voting (4): mathdude

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to exile. Day 2 ends Thursday, September 2 at 10:00 pm forum time. That's in about 12 hours.
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EFHW

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #752 on: September 02, 2021, 10:36:44 am »

Vote: Glooble

My case was a bust. What's yours?
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iguanaiguana

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #753 on: September 02, 2021, 12:21:20 pm »

Less than 10 to deadline. Looks like we're shaping up to have a nice EoD scramble again!

I will vote for pubby, Dylan, or Galzria. I am on staying on Dylan right now because it seemed like throughout the day we had the most support there.
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Point iguana. Not that points really matter with a result, but still.
Igu is town or trying the hardest he ever has as scum.

iguanaiguana

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #754 on: September 02, 2021, 12:22:31 pm »

I'm happy to talk through my reasons about anything with anyone. Just ask. My cards are on the table.
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Point iguana. Not that points really matter with a result, but still.
Igu is town or trying the hardest he ever has as scum.

Glooble

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #755 on: September 02, 2021, 12:42:11 pm »

vote: Dylan because let's try and avoid the scramble or at least make it happen sooner.
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I think town!Glooble pointing to something as a scum tell and then shortly thereafter doing that thing is a lot more likely than scum!Glooble doing that.

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MiX

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #756 on: September 02, 2021, 12:50:08 pm »

Does everyone actually think scum!Dylan would be caught like this? He hasn't even done anything scummy. Is everyone else that townie that Dylan has to be scum by process of elimination?

I challenge the people that seems untouchable now: faust and Didds. And EFHW, partially.
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WestCoastDidds

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #757 on: September 02, 2021, 12:53:12 pm »

Does everyone actually think scum!Dylan would be caught like this? He hasn't even done anything scummy. Is everyone else that townie that Dylan has to be scum by process of elimination?

I challenge the people that seems untouchable now: faust and Didds. And EFHW, partially.

Not quite following... What is the challenge?
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iguanaiguana

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #758 on: September 02, 2021, 01:06:06 pm »

Does everyone actually think scum!Dylan would be caught like this? He hasn't even done anything scummy. Is everyone else that townie that Dylan has to be scum by process of elimination?

I challenge the people that seems untouchable now: faust and Didds. And EFHW, partially.

faust is VLA and can't defend himself, and has done nothing particularly scummy that I've seen much like you claim for Dylan. I wrote in my QT (paraphrase) that if faust is still around on D4, just policy exile because I've lost a lot of games by trusting him too long. So -- I promise -- I won't just continue to blindly trust faust but I will give him a D2 pass.

Didds-wait, do you really think Didds is scum? Weren't you defending her just recently? I can't even keep up, man. Show me what's suspicious and I'll respond.

EFHW - I honestly just found the way she processed pubby's GID case and my response to it very townie. Before that, I didn't have a townread on her. That PoE actually really helped me get to wanting to vote Galz/Dylan/pubby today.
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Point iguana. Not that points really matter with a result, but still.
Igu is town or trying the hardest he ever has as scum.

Dylan32

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #759 on: September 02, 2021, 01:17:50 pm »

I was about to write a scum-to-chum list, but I feel like my brain is just sorting high-info to low-info flips, which is nice if there's overlap on the high-info/scum categories, but maybe this is just because I'm up way too late to be thinking.

I think my scum categoty would include Glooble, pubby, faust.
Town is IC, iguana (just realized I didn't address GPD, which--while wrong--at least seemed like there was some real scumhunting in there), maybe Galz based moreso on some stuff today.
I still have no idea how to read EFHW. Like, we've been in quite a few games together, and yet in my mind you always just kind of seem the same and I haven't picked out any differences in how you play either side. Of course some of that might be that most of the games I've played recently I've not been town, so I haven't actually had to try to read you very often, so this is different. Mentally swowl and mathdude just are off my radar right now. I know they've done things, but I'm just drawing a blank trying to think of specifics here. If there was a point to be made about wagon positioning D1 on e, I guess maybe mathdude could have been scum on there. I don't think I would want to exile Didds today, because as has been said, they're on the easier side to read later in the game; but not just for the negative side, like, they're pretty good at scumhunting late game too if memory serves. In one of the last non-bsg games where I was scum and it was Didds, EFHW, scum!joth, and scum!me and I forget the last townie, I was really afraid of Didds going into the last day because you seemed to have my number the last couple game days and I really worried about you being able to convince EFHW and whoever the other person was (sorry if you are here and I can't remember you!!) that it was actually me.

Vote: Glooble

Can you talk about

I think my scum categoty would include Glooble, pubby, faust.

This instead?

Also how can you say GPD's wrong when you have GPF.

This is also the best time to say that I can't believe pubby didn't go for the DIG terminology instead, and that I townread him for it.

Well, GPD includes me, therefore it is wrong. And I donít know that both GP are scum together, Iíve just found them more scum than others.
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Forum Mafia Record - Wins: 14 - NM9, M97, RMM41, M99, M102, M104, M119, M126, RMM56, M133, M134, RMM58, RMM59, RMM61, RMM60; Losses 15 - RMM37, M89, M94, M95, M96, M100, RMM47 M109, M110, M120, M127, M129, M131, M132, M136; MVPs: 1 - NM9

Dylan32

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #760 on: September 02, 2021, 01:22:20 pm »

Vote: pubby

Letís consolidate there instead.
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Forum Mafia Record - Wins: 14 - NM9, M97, RMM41, M99, M102, M104, M119, M126, RMM56, M133, M134, RMM58, RMM59, RMM61, RMM60; Losses 15 - RMM37, M89, M94, M95, M96, M100, RMM47 M109, M110, M120, M127, M129, M131, M132, M136; MVPs: 1 - NM9

Dylan32

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #761 on: September 02, 2021, 01:28:57 pm »

Swowlís recent butchering of my post is like really scummy, misrepresenting stuff on the leading wagon to try to make sure the misexile  goes through. Like mix said, my choice between the two at X-2 came down to my read, and then after e claimed it shifted to Galz really quickly so he claimed, and after both claims I decided not to move because of the reasons I said.
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Forum Mafia Record - Wins: 14 - NM9, M97, RMM41, M99, M102, M104, M119, M126, RMM56, M133, M134, RMM58, RMM59, RMM61, RMM60; Losses 15 - RMM37, M89, M94, M95, M96, M100, RMM47 M109, M110, M120, M127, M129, M131, M132, M136; MVPs: 1 - NM9

WestCoastDidds

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #762 on: September 02, 2021, 01:30:47 pm »

Vote: pubby

Letís consolidate there instead.

What is the reason for pubby?
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WestCoastDidds

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #763 on: September 02, 2021, 01:31:33 pm »

Working on my rereads...

Swowl first.

D1, his posts mostly concern how he and I play togther, reading and rereading Glooble, voting and advocating for e, calling people who vote for him scummy because they can't point to what is scummy about him, and talking with Galz about whether or not to shoot. D2 he is less available, votes around a bit and ends up on Dylan because of the order of Dylan's claims about his vote.

This is, to me, his most scummy post:
Let's all vote Swowl

I do not believe I have ever been looked at so much without literally a single reason ever being stated as to why I am skummy.
No defense on this one. Pure offense.
You are skummy for it, faust is skummy for it, and whoever the other person was (Dylan i think) is skummy for it.

My assessment: probably scum, although the Dylan argument is not entirely bad.

Dylan next
He only has 6 posts in D1 until the run up at the end of the day. Says hi and MiX is the best IC (agree), engages about Glooble a bit with faust and then votes for Glooble, then votes for 2 (L-1) because he seems scummier than Glaz, and his last post is that we can't verify if e is the hider by letting him live. Would rather lose the hider than the vig.

This post seems to be pushing an exile even if its town.
I find it ironic that we've run up two wagons and gotten two claims of roles that either wouldn't hurt town too much to lose or would be convenient fake claims for scum, and it still seems like we are moving away from exiling either of them. Like I get it if we unfortunately hit a doc or a cop or something, but if we weren't going to exile either of e or galz after claiming these roles, were we ever going to exile anyone?

There is one towny moment when at the EoD, Galz asks if he would go back to Glooble and Dylan asks "how many more claims do we want to have today" which is a fair point. But then he says, ironically, he would go back to voting for Glooble. +.5. He ends the day advocating for e, but willing to switch to Galzy.

D2, gone for the start of the day. Opens with iguna reads as town, and pubby is mistaken but not scummy in his GID argument. Defneds himself against what he calls a Glooble tunnel. This is where he makes the arguments related to timing of the claims and his logic that Swowl points out. Acknowldges he hasn't been present, but that when he is scum he works harder at faux scum hunting. Then his reread, which probably is more for him than for us. Makes an argument about why a vig is protective.

Has Glooble, pubby, and faust on his scum list. But I see no reason for faust and pubby at all.

My assessment: Not very scummy. Maybe town. Nothing is really scummy, but its not helpful. He doesn't move the game forward at all, which is a bit out of character although he usually does that more/better later on.

EFHW next...

In the meantime Vote: Swowl

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Glooble

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #764 on: September 02, 2021, 01:47:13 pm »

Didds, that quote also stuck out at me when I re-read Dylan. Seemed townie I think. And there's just not that much meat on the bones as far as the case is concerned. I'm townreading faust and Didds right now, willing to join them on this wagon.

vote: Swowl
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I think town!Glooble pointing to something as a scum tell and then shortly thereafter doing that thing is a lot more likely than scum!Glooble doing that.

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Dylan32

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #765 on: September 02, 2021, 01:48:10 pm »

Didds, in my reread I literally called out at least one post of Faustís as scummy, so thatís why he is on that list. But honestly now that Iíve slept and Iím thinking about it, with pubby, I didnít really think the GID theory was scummy, but then by the end of my reread I had a scumread on them, and I donít really know why. Iíll iso to see if that actually holds up.
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Forum Mafia Record - Wins: 14 - NM9, M97, RMM41, M99, M102, M104, M119, M126, RMM56, M133, M134, RMM58, RMM59, RMM61, RMM60; Losses 15 - RMM37, M89, M94, M95, M96, M100, RMM47 M109, M110, M120, M127, M129, M131, M132, M136; MVPs: 1 - NM9

Galzria

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #766 on: September 02, 2021, 01:48:42 pm »

Here until deadline. Catching up on what I missed from yesterday, as well as looking over the things I wanted to get to.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

WestCoastDidds

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #767 on: September 02, 2021, 01:50:52 pm »

EFHW

She tends to ask a lot of questions, and that is true of D1, although the questions are not terribly incisive. Posts a naked vote for e and then later chides faust for naked votes. Votes for me for a bit and then rereads Glooble. Says there are "some things that she noticed" as a reason for not wanting to exile Glooble, and votes for Galz. And then...huh, that was her last post in D1. I hadn't realized that she hadn't participated in any part of the e discussion.

D2, challenges pubby theory, challenges my read on mathdude. Her scummiest folks are pubby, mathdude, and  she's going to reread Glooble. There are then 7 posts concerning Glooble's reasosn (or not) for his early pubby vote.

My assessment: probably scum There is almost no scumhunting going on in D1, and today she has been active engaged about what she sees as a contradiction in Glooble's explanation. No one other than MiX took up that subject, so the length of the discussion is notable. This could be an attempt to manufacture content without getting into hot water and that had the potential to reveal something incriminating. If she is scum and Glooble is town, that is a good play for her. She is not going after him hard so it stays below the radar, which is something that EFHW would have in her wheelhouse of awesome.

PPE 3
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WestCoastDidds

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #768 on: September 02, 2021, 01:53:40 pm »

Didds, in my reread I literally called out at least one post of Faustís as scummy, so thatís why he is on that list. But honestly now that Iíve slept and Iím thinking about it, with pubby, I didnít really think the GID theory was scummy, but then by the end of my reread I had a scumread on them, and I donít really know why. Iíll iso to see if that actually holds up.

I didn't ISO faust, so this is just impressions, but he mostly seems towny right now but also pretty VLA. I think I agree with Galz that a faust exile right now is a shot in the dark but a faust around later is a dangerous faust indeed
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Galzria

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #769 on: September 02, 2021, 01:56:26 pm »

Quick question:

Is it known that there is exactly a 3 member scum team?

I've read a lot of 3-person teams being called today by a select few .... and it's seemed scummy to me. If I'm scum and have two teammates, then I know that "town!me" would be hunting for "3 scum"... but as far as I'm aware that isn't actually stated to be true. Most likely? Maybe. But I don't think that I would have ever jumped straight to that presumption.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

WestCoastDidds

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #770 on: September 02, 2021, 02:00:14 pm »

So, after ISOing those Dylan, Swowl, and EFHW my friend to foe list looks like this:

MiX
faust
iguana
mathdude

Glooble
Galzy
Dylan
pubby

EFHW
Swowl

One thing I am thinking about, though, is who would kill Awaclus. My guess is that this was a faust suggestion, but could have also been EFHW, iguana, or Galz. I am not sure Swowl advocates for an Awaclus NK. That is all just musings from my head, though, but it does complicate my list.
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MiX

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #771 on: September 02, 2021, 02:00:31 pm »

Quick question:

Is it known that there is exactly a 3 member scum team?

I've read a lot of 3-person teams being called today by a select few .... and it's seemed scummy to me. If I'm scum and have two teammates, then I know that "town!me" would be hunting for "3 scum"... but as far as I'm aware that isn't actually stated to be true. Most likely? Maybe. But I don't think that I would have ever jumped straight to that presumption.

It's NAI to most people. I can see it be scum indicative of pubby, but not anyone else, really.
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WestCoastDidds

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #772 on: September 02, 2021, 02:01:23 pm »

I'm going to get some work done for a bit now, but I will be back.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #773 on: September 02, 2021, 02:03:38 pm »

Swowlís recent butchering of my post is like really scummy, misrepresenting stuff on the leading wagon to try to make sure the misexile  goes through. Like mix said, my choice between the two at X-2 came down to my read, and then after e claimed it shifted to Galz really quickly so he claimed, and after both claims I decided not to move because of the reasons I said.

Unvote

Not skummy, misinterpreted. It was late, I got pumped thought I found a slip. m to the b
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Jesus how did i fuck that up
real good. Thatís how
Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
Skum: 7 wins, 7 losses (1 MVP)
3-Party: 4 wins, 1 loss

Galzria

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #774 on: September 02, 2021, 02:10:00 pm »

These next few posts will likely not have a strong narrative to them. I'm putting together the things that led me to my Glooble vote, but I'm also going to be commenting on anything that stands out to me.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20
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