Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: 1 ... 12 13 [14] 15 16 ... 50  All

Author Topic: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia  (Read 98132 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Swowl

  • Pawn
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1
  • Shuffle iT Username: Swowl
  • Snow.Owl.Duh.
    • View Profile
Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #325 on: August 26, 2021, 01:27:35 am »

I will accept no exile before I vote for either Didds or Glooble.

strange, as you find me skummy and yet I did not jump on either of those wagons.
Logged
Jesus how did i fuck that up
real good. That’s how
Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
Skum: 7 wins, 7 losses (1 MVP)
3-Party: 4 wins, 1 loss

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11809
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (´。• ω •。`)
    • View Profile
    • Birds of Necama
Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #326 on: August 26, 2021, 01:54:43 am »

Nexile is objectively bad. Even though people have night powers, it's reasonable to expect that scum has more powerful night powers because otherwise the game would be heavily town-favored. And so, ideally, we want to minimize the number of nights we have.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's Creative Commons albums for free

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11809
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (´。• ω •。`)
    • View Profile
    • Birds of Necama
Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #327 on: August 26, 2021, 02:09:51 am »

Also I'm going back to vote: e.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's Creative Commons albums for free

faust

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3376
  • Shuffle iT Username: faust
    • View Profile
Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #328 on: August 26, 2021, 02:22:12 am »

Nexile is objectively bad. Even though people have night powers, it's reasonable to expect that scum has more powerful night powers because otherwise the game would be heavily town-favored. And so, ideally, we want to minimize the number of nights we have.
That argument is taking a couple of leaps. The game would not be town-favored just because town have "better" powers. There could be more scum to make up for it. In fact, the scum-to-town ratio in RMMs is usually higher specifically because town's powers are better than in a normal game compared to scum's. So you can stop making claims about "objectivity".
Logged
You say the ocean's rising, like I give a shit
You say the whole world's ending, honey it already did

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11809
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (´。• ω •。`)
    • View Profile
    • Birds of Necama
Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #329 on: August 26, 2021, 02:28:47 am »

Nexile is objectively bad. Even though people have night powers, it's reasonable to expect that scum has more powerful night powers because otherwise the game would be heavily town-favored. And so, ideally, we want to minimize the number of nights we have.
That argument is taking a couple of leaps. The game would not be town-favored just because town have "better" powers. There could be more scum to make up for it. In fact, the scum-to-town ratio in RMMs is usually higher specifically because town's powers are better than in a normal game compared to scum's. So you can stop making claims about "objectivity".

Then why don't we just automatically nexile every day and win with our superior night powers instead?
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's Creative Commons albums for free

faust

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3376
  • Shuffle iT Username: faust
    • View Profile
Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #330 on: August 26, 2021, 02:41:38 am »

Nexile is objectively bad. Even though people have night powers, it's reasonable to expect that scum has more powerful night powers because otherwise the game would be heavily town-favored. And so, ideally, we want to minimize the number of nights we have.
That argument is taking a couple of leaps. The game would not be town-favored just because town have "better" powers. There could be more scum to make up for it. In fact, the scum-to-town ratio in RMMs is usually higher specifically because town's powers are better than in a normal game compared to scum's. So you can stop making claims about "objectivity".

Then why don't we just automatically nexile every day and win with our superior night powers instead?
I guess it's within flavor to put up a strawman?
Logged
You say the ocean's rising, like I give a shit
You say the whole world's ending, honey it already did

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11809
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (´。• ω •。`)
    • View Profile
    • Birds of Necama
Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #331 on: August 26, 2021, 02:46:06 am »

Nexile is objectively bad. Even though people have night powers, it's reasonable to expect that scum has more powerful night powers because otherwise the game would be heavily town-favored. And so, ideally, we want to minimize the number of nights we have.
That argument is taking a couple of leaps. The game would not be town-favored just because town have "better" powers. There could be more scum to make up for it. In fact, the scum-to-town ratio in RMMs is usually higher specifically because town's powers are better than in a normal game compared to scum's. So you can stop making claims about "objectivity".

Then why don't we just automatically nexile every day and win with our superior night powers instead?
I guess it's within flavor to put up a strawman?

If nexiling every day is obviously a bad idea (which it is), then it seems equally obvious that nexiling is bad in general.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's Creative Commons albums for free

faust

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3376
  • Shuffle iT Username: faust
    • View Profile
Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #332 on: August 26, 2021, 02:47:35 am »

Nexile is objectively bad. Even though people have night powers, it's reasonable to expect that scum has more powerful night powers because otherwise the game would be heavily town-favored. And so, ideally, we want to minimize the number of nights we have.
That argument is taking a couple of leaps. The game would not be town-favored just because town have "better" powers. There could be more scum to make up for it. In fact, the scum-to-town ratio in RMMs is usually higher specifically because town's powers are better than in a normal game compared to scum's. So you can stop making claims about "objectivity".

Then why don't we just automatically nexile every day and win with our superior night powers instead?
I guess it's within flavor to put up a strawman?

If nexiling every day is obviously a bad idea (which it is), then it seems equally obvious that nexiling is bad in general.
If exiling e in every game is obviously a bad idea (which it is), then it seems equally obvious that exiling e is bad in general.
Logged
You say the ocean's rising, like I give a shit
You say the whole world's ending, honey it already did

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11809
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (´。• ω •。`)
    • View Profile
    • Birds of Necama
Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #333 on: August 26, 2021, 02:58:15 am »

If exiling e in every game is obviously a bad idea (which it is), then it seems equally obvious that exiling e is bad in general.

Exiling e in every game is not obviously a bad idea. It's possible that he's scum in every game.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's Creative Commons albums for free

faust

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3376
  • Shuffle iT Username: faust
    • View Profile
Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #334 on: August 26, 2021, 03:30:53 am »

Exchanges like these make me wonder if I'm too charitable with Awaclus.
Logged
You say the ocean's rising, like I give a shit
You say the whole world's ending, honey it already did

Galzria

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 956
  • Since 2012
    • View Profile
Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #335 on: August 26, 2021, 03:43:28 am »

Except Awaclus is right.
Logged
Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

faust

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3376
  • Shuffle iT Username: faust
    • View Profile
Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #336 on: August 26, 2021, 03:47:29 am »

I'm really not trying to convince anyone to no exile. It's just that if the choice is exile someone I townread or no exile, then I will choose no exile in this game.

If you want to make sure we get an exile, you could of course join me on a scummy player rather than, like Galzria, leave a pointless vote on a wagon that is never going to succeed because the IC (rightly) opposes it.
Logged
You say the ocean's rising, like I give a shit
You say the whole world's ending, honey it already did

faust

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3376
  • Shuffle iT Username: faust
    • View Profile
Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #337 on: August 26, 2021, 03:49:18 am »

I mean, at least I am open about thinking no exile being an option. Galzria claims to be opposed to it while doing his best to make sure that's what happens.
Logged
You say the ocean's rising, like I give a shit
You say the whole world's ending, honey it already did

faust

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3376
  • Shuffle iT Username: faust
    • View Profile
Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #338 on: August 26, 2021, 03:50:24 am »

Vote: Galzria

I've talked myself into a rage vote.
Logged
You say the ocean's rising, like I give a shit
You say the whole world's ending, honey it already did

Galzria

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 956
  • Since 2012
    • View Profile
Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #339 on: August 26, 2021, 03:51:35 am »

Good thing the IC doesn’t dictate who we exile. It’s crazy, but it’s almost like they have less knowledge than literally anybody in the game.
Logged
Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

Galzria

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 956
  • Since 2012
    • View Profile
Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #340 on: August 26, 2021, 03:52:52 am »

Well I'm not gonna stop you from exiling Didds. But she is town.

Vote: Glooble

Vote Count 1.3.MiX

WestCoastDidds (4): Galzria, iguanaiguana, Glooble, EFHW
Glooble (3): WestCoastDidds, Dylan32, MiX
Swowl (2): faust, Awaclus
2.71828.... (1): Swowl
iguanaiguana (1): pubby
EFHW (1): 2.71828....

Not voting (1): mathdude

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to exile. Day 1 ends at 7 pm on Thursday, forum time (in 26 hours).

Look! No IC on the leasing wagon! Impossible! That can’t happen! No way no how!
Logged
Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

faust

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3376
  • Shuffle iT Username: faust
    • View Profile
Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #341 on: August 26, 2021, 03:56:05 am »

Good thing the IC doesn’t dictate who we exile. It’s crazy, but it’s almost like they have less knowledge than literally anybody in the game.
I for example have the knowledge that it's almost impossible to get a town-controlled wagon on Didds to succeed if MiX and me oppose it. Which means the only way a Didds exile is going to happen is because scum wants it to happen.
Logged
You say the ocean's rising, like I give a shit
You say the whole world's ending, honey it already did

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11809
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (´。• ω •。`)
    • View Profile
    • Birds of Necama
Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #342 on: August 26, 2021, 04:00:51 am »

Good thing the IC doesn’t dictate who we exile. It’s crazy, but it’s almost like they have less knowledge than literally anybody in the game.
I for example have the knowledge that it's almost impossible to get a town-controlled wagon on Didds to succeed if MiX and me oppose it. Which means the only way a Didds exile is going to happen is because scum wants it to happen.

If we have 3 scum, we can have all scum and 3 townies opposed to a Didds exile and it can still go through as long as everyone else is on board.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's Creative Commons albums for free

faust

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3376
  • Shuffle iT Username: faust
    • View Profile
Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #343 on: August 26, 2021, 04:03:46 am »

Exiling e in every game is not obviously a bad idea. It's possible that he's scum in every game.
If we have 3 scum, we can have all scum and 3 townies opposed to a Didds exile and it can still go through as long as everyone else is on board.
You're trying really hard to hold on to those minuscule-likelihood scenarios aren't you?
Logged
You say the ocean's rising, like I give a shit
You say the whole world's ending, honey it already did

faust

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3376
  • Shuffle iT Username: faust
    • View Profile
Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #344 on: August 26, 2021, 04:05:22 am »

TIL that miniscule (the spelling I had in my head) is apparently wrong.
Logged
You say the ocean's rising, like I give a shit
You say the whole world's ending, honey it already did

Galzria

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 956
  • Since 2012
    • View Profile
Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #345 on: August 26, 2021, 04:07:26 am »

Good thing the IC doesn’t dictate who we exile. It’s crazy, but it’s almost like they have less knowledge than literally anybody in the game.
I for example have the knowledge that it's almost impossible to get a town-controlled wagon on Didds to succeed if MiX and me oppose it. Which means the only way a Didds exile is going to happen is because scum wants it to happen.

That’s such a nonsense argument as it applies to anyone in the game - and isn’t even a good argument at that.

13 players, you and MiX made up 2. That leaves 11. It takes 7 to exile. Doubt there’s more than 4 scum. So even if you’re town, town all get on a wagon together without you and MiX to get an exile through.

If the exile is on town, yes, you’re right, there’s probably scum aboard that wagon. That’s how we do analysis in future days. And if the exile is on scum, well guess what, we still get to do analysis of where the votes came from and when!

See, that’s how this game is played. Not by some dictator deciding who we get to exile and when.
Logged
Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11809
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (´。• ω •。`)
    • View Profile
    • Birds of Necama
Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #346 on: August 26, 2021, 04:12:48 am »

Exiling e in every game is not obviously a bad idea. It's possible that he's scum in every game.
If we have 3 scum, we can have all scum and 3 townies opposed to a Didds exile and it can still go through as long as everyone else is on board.
You're trying really hard to hold on to those minuscule-likelihood scenarios aren't you?

How is it a minuscule-likelihood scenario? There's always going to be either exactly 7 townies or at least 1 scum on the wagon on D1, and the other townies will be off the wagon and their opinions won't make a difference, and neither will their IC status or lack thereof.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's Creative Commons albums for free

Galzria

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 956
  • Since 2012
    • View Profile
Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #347 on: August 26, 2021, 04:18:28 am »

I'm really not trying to convince anyone to no exile. It's just that if the choice is exile someone I townread or no exile, then I will choose no exile in this game.

If you want to make sure we get an exile, you could of course join me on a scummy player rather than, like Galzria, leave a pointless vote on a wagon that is never going to succeed because the IC (rightly) opposes it.

You can fairly say “I oppose WCD’s exile and will not take part in it happening.”

You cannot fairly say “Because I oppose it and so does the IC, anybody that chooses to pursue it is wasting everybody’s time with pointless votes.”

There are more than enough people, hell likely more than enough TOWN, to get an exile through that you happen to disagree with. Your disagreement doesn’t make their reads pointless or invalid.
Logged
Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

faust

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3376
  • Shuffle iT Username: faust
    • View Profile
Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #348 on: August 26, 2021, 04:26:43 am »

Exiling e in every game is not obviously a bad idea. It's possible that he's scum in every game.
If we have 3 scum, we can have all scum and 3 townies opposed to a Didds exile and it can still go through as long as everyone else is on board.
You're trying really hard to hold on to those minuscule-likelihood scenarios aren't you?

How is it a minuscule-likelihood scenario? There's always going to be either exactly 7 townies or at least 1 scum on the wagon on D1, and the other townies will be off the wagon and their opinions won't make a difference, and neither will their IC status or lack thereof.
It's not that different from other games; I think you should always be wary of wagons that your townreads oppose unless you have a good reason to think otherwise. Here, everyone knows that MiX is town, and from Galzria's previously posted readslist I would think that he townreads me as well. That should make him at least think twice about supporting that wagon.

Also given MiX's stated preference, assuming Didds was scum, it is easier for her teammates to not feel compelled to bus, so I think it is particularly unlikely for that wagon to succeed - usually, even correct exiles on scum have other scum on the wagon.
Logged
You say the ocean's rising, like I give a shit
You say the whole world's ending, honey it already did

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11809
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (´。• ω •。`)
    • View Profile
    • Birds of Necama
Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #349 on: August 26, 2021, 04:33:50 am »

It's not that different from other games; I think you should always be wary of wagons that your townreads oppose unless you have a good reason to think otherwise.

Your townreads, sure. But the IC, unlike your townreads, has less information than anyone else, which is why your own reads are by default better than theirs unless there's a good reason to think otherwise.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's Creative Commons albums for free
Pages: 1 ... 12 13 [14] 15 16 ... 50  All
 

Page created in 0.074 seconds with 22 queries.