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Author Topic: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia  (Read 98158 times)

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Galzria

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #275 on: August 25, 2021, 02:03:57 pm »

On WCD. Happy with WCD. Would also vote:

Dylan, EFHW, Glooble, e, pubby

Would have to stretch to get to:

Mathdude, iguana

Probably not interested in:

faust, Awaclus, Swowl
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Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

WestCoastDidds

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #276 on: August 25, 2021, 02:05:13 pm »

I'm never useful day 1. I usually can't develop scumreads this early. I voted for pubby in the hopes of starting a pubby wagon not because I necessarily thought he was scum, but because I thought he might be scum and it might provide useful interactions. I also had a reason for thinking he was a teensy bit more likely to be scum than others who already had votes on them, and I wam not interested in sharing that reason atm.


Prior to you moving your vote to pubby for "reasons" he had the following posts:

1. "vote iguanaiguana"
2. "I don't think we are in kansas anymore"

what possible read could you get out of that?

Ok, now this? This is actually rolefishing.

I don't follow. How is that rolefishing?
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Swowl

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #277 on: August 25, 2021, 02:06:34 pm »

I'm never useful day 1. I usually can't develop scumreads this early. I voted for pubby in the hopes of starting a pubby wagon not because I necessarily thought he was scum, but because I thought he might be scum and it might provide useful interactions. I also had a reason for thinking he was a teensy bit more likely to be scum than others who already had votes on them, and I wam not interested in sharing that reason atm.


Prior to you moving your vote to pubby for "reasons" he had the following posts:

1. "vote iguanaiguana"
2. "I don't think we are in kansas anymore"

what possible read could you get out of that?

Ok, now this? This is actually rolefishing.

no it isn't.
1. because it was not intended to be.
2. because if your reasons had anything to do with your role in a relevant sense at the heck all... you 100% would not say "this is role fishing".
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #278 on: August 25, 2021, 02:11:03 pm »

The reasons were admittedly very flimsy, but its not pro-town to keep pushing me for them.

*breathe in breathe out*

fine. not going to gain anything out of this anyways.

to your point, whatever reasons you could possibly have cannot possibly carry any weight, so I will stop.

Wanna make it clear I am stopping NOT because it is not pro town to push you one this... completely 100% disagree with that.
I find it very odd that you would feel the need to say "I have reasons I don't want to share" and then down the road be like "oh they are so flimsy". I feel like you would normally open with "I have a gut read" or just a simply answer at first saying the reasons were a stretch or something.

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Glooble

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #279 on: August 25, 2021, 02:21:26 pm »

The reasons were admittedly very flimsy, but its not pro-town to keep pushing me for them.

*breathe in breathe out*

fine. not going to gain anything out of this anyways.

to your point, whatever reasons you could possibly have cannot possibly carry any weight, so I will stop.

Wanna make it clear I am stopping NOT because it is not pro town to push you one this... completely 100% disagree with that.
I find it very odd that you would feel the need to say "I have reasons I don't want to share" and then down the road be like "oh they are so flimsy". I feel like you would normally open with "I have a gut read" or just a simply answer at first saying the reasons were a stretch or something.

I think it's pretty obvious that if a person says they have reasons and there is no extant public information to possibly explain those reasons, then the reasons must be based on information that is not public, and therefore to continue asking for them is rolefishing.
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I think town!Glooble pointing to something as a scum tell and then shortly thereafter doing that thing is a lot more likely than scum!Glooble doing that.

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Swowl

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #280 on: August 25, 2021, 02:25:46 pm »

The reasons were admittedly very flimsy, but its not pro-town to keep pushing me for them.

*breathe in breathe out*

fine. not going to gain anything out of this anyways.

to your point, whatever reasons you could possibly have cannot possibly carry any weight, so I will stop.

Wanna make it clear I am stopping NOT because it is not pro town to push you one this... completely 100% disagree with that.
I find it very odd that you would feel the need to say "I have reasons I don't want to share" and then down the road be like "oh they are so flimsy". I feel like you would normally open with "I have a gut read" or just a simply answer at first saying the reasons were a stretch or something.

I think it's pretty obvious that if a person says they have reasons and there is no extant public information to possibly explain those reasons, then the reasons must be based on information that is not public, and therefore to continue asking for them is rolefishing.

except it can't be role fishing... because he didn't do anything. it can't be any fishing. there are no fish. I don't even have a freeking pole.
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MiX

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #281 on: August 25, 2021, 02:33:55 pm »

Glooble, if you voted someone on reasons that a person that is reading the thread can only conclude are due to your PR, then scum will always pick up on it, if they want to.

Do you want us to vote pubby out? Because if you do, then that is much more important than the D1 dance. If you simply wanted to push pubby, then voting him does not do that. You need to interact with him and ask him questions.
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Glooble

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #282 on: August 25, 2021, 02:50:30 pm »

Glooble, if you voted someone on reasons that a person that is reading the thread can only conclude are due to your PR, then scum will always pick up on it, if they want to.

Do you want us to vote pubby out? Because if you do, then that is much more important than the D1 dance. If you simply wanted to push pubby, then voting him does not do that. You need to interact with him and ask him questions.

If I wanted pubby exiled, I would still be voting for pubby. It was the very beginning of the game, I wanted a wagon so we'd have more stuff to analyze when we got a flip. I'm sorry I said I had reasons, if I'd known it was going to be the only thing people focused on I wouldn't have.
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I think town!Glooble pointing to something as a scum tell and then shortly thereafter doing that thing is a lot more likely than scum!Glooble doing that.

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MiX

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #283 on: August 25, 2021, 02:54:31 pm »

Ok that's enough role fishing for today.

I kinda wish you had just said "I have mechanical reasons to want to vote pubby" instead of having to read that vote like a normal one and come to the conclusion it wasn't uninformed, like the rest of town's votes.

I'll take this time to chime in on the Didds wagon: Didds is town. Move on.

Vote: faust, but this is a placeholder. EoD is only tomorrow so I don't feel like making a definitive vote yet.
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faust

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #284 on: August 25, 2021, 03:00:23 pm »

I'll take this time to chime in on the Didds wagon: Didds is town. Move on.
Preferably to Swowl.
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iguanaiguana

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #285 on: August 25, 2021, 03:54:14 pm »



Your first point that "If I did" comments are scummy. I disagree. Swowl is one of the two people who read me best. Saying what I would do is based enirely on what I have done.  But that is also a belief thing and I won't say anything to change your mind... but you should also recognize it is a belief thing and not based in any evidence of my scum behavior.
I think it is an overstatement or exaggeration. In this game, no one can ignore each other because we are all trying to analyze one another. So maybe as scum, you make the exaggeration because you can lie, whereas as town you know you are not going to be completely able to ignore him. But as scum you are willing to say "I wouldn't do this as scum" when actually you would because you are lying. OK... this is definitely my weakest point of the three and I admit that. And yes I know I don't know your developed meta as well as some other players.
Quote
-snip-
Your second point is that no exile is scummy.  No, no it is not.
-snip-

Specifically in this RMM I think no exile is a bad thing to advocate for. We know this about the setup: "It will be role madness in that everyone will have a role, but the roles themselves will be mostly uncomplicated and there are no weird novel gimmicks." For that kind of a setup in particular, no exile is bad because we have uncomplicated roles... so the interesting things you claim may happen at night are less likely to happen because this game has been described as basically an RMM lite.

So IMO no exile is bad here and arguing for something bad and then basically only casting one vote and not participating in much scumhunting is scummy.
 
Quote
-snip-
Third point.... I am not mischaracterizing Globble's position. How much he was responsible for the extended discussion of massclaiming, on teh other hand, is arguable and a difference in perception.
-snip-

I disagree that it is a matter of perception. It is measurable. Glooble made exactly three posts, one after another, about the massclaim discussion amounting to a total of 198 words and 1084 characters. Faust has 9 posts on the topic, amounting to 326 words and 1870 characters. Glooble's posts are all responses to faust's and are part of his stated intent of tunneling faust to figure out his alignment. faust's posts are more various and interact with me, e, Glooble, and Awaclus.

Based on these measurements, I cast suspicion on your claim that you reread the massclaim discussion, which you say was a waste of time, and concluded that Glooble came off scummiest in the discussion.
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Point iguana. Not that points really matter with a result, but still.
Igu is town or trying the hardest he ever has as scum.

iguanaiguana

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #286 on: August 25, 2021, 04:01:09 pm »

I was reading Swowl as town so I don't understand why faust is pushing Swowl. Swowl is another one who I don't know too well but he's definitely at least Tryhard!Swowl this game so why exile him D1?

I don't understand the basis for MiX thinking WCD is town. MiX if you have a good reason, I'm a very convinceable person who would like to know it. Right now I still think she's scum so I'm not going to just move because you say so.
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Point iguana. Not that points really matter with a result, but still.
Igu is town or trying the hardest he ever has as scum.

faust

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #287 on: August 25, 2021, 04:02:16 pm »

Faust has 9 posts on the topic, amounting to 326 words and 1870 characters.
Can you tell me which posts these are supposed to be?
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #288 on: August 25, 2021, 04:05:04 pm »

I was reading Swowl as town so I don't understand why faust is pushing Swowl. Swowl is another one who I don't know too well but he's definitely at least Tryhard!Swowl this game so why exile him D1?

I don't understand the basis for MiX thinking WCD is town. MiX if you have a good reason, I'm a very convinceable person who would like to know it. Right now I still think she's scum so I'm not going to just move because you say so.

Swowl = DatSwan if it helps iguana. changed the handle a bit back.
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MiX

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #289 on: August 25, 2021, 04:08:21 pm »

Your first point that "If I did" comments are scummy. I disagree. Swowl is one of the two people who read me best. Saying what I would do is based enirely on what I have done.  But that is also a belief thing and I won't say anything to change your mind... but you should also recognize it is a belief thing and not based in any evidence of my scum behavior.

I think it is an overstatement or exaggeration. In this game, no one can ignore each other because we are all trying to analyze one another. So maybe as scum, you make the exaggeration because you can lie, whereas as town you know you are not going to be completely able to ignore him. But as scum you are willing to say "I wouldn't do this as scum" when actually you would because you are lying. OK... this is definitely my weakest point of the three and I admit that. And yes I know I don't know your developed meta as well as some other players.

Do you know Didds at all? Have you played with her before? I can't really go over this point before you answer this question.

Quote
-snip-
Your second point is that no exile is scummy.  No, no it is not.
-snip-

Specifically in this RMM I think no exile is a bad thing to advocate for. We know this about the setup: "It will be role madness in that everyone will have a role, but the roles themselves will be mostly uncomplicated and there are no weird novel gimmicks." For that kind of a setup in particular, no exile is bad because we have uncomplicated roles... so the interesting things you claim may happen at night are less likely to happen because this game has been described as basically an RMM lite.

So IMO no exile is bad here and arguing for something bad and then basically only casting one vote and not participating in much scumhunting is scummy.

Just because it's anti-town to not exile (or better yet, you think it's anti-town to not exile) doesn't mean Didds is more likely to be scum by advocating it. I'd like to see evidence that Didds is barely scumhunting.

Quote
-snip-
Third point.... I am not mischaracterizing Globble's position. How much he was responsible for the extended discussion of massclaiming, on teh other hand, is arguable and a difference in perception.
-snip-

I disagree that it is a matter of perception. It is measurable. Glooble made exactly three posts, one after another, about the massclaim discussion amounting to a total of 198 words and 1084 characters. Faust has 9 posts on the topic, amounting to 326 words and 1870 characters. Glooble's posts are all responses to faust's and are part of his stated intent of tunneling faust to figure out his alignment. faust's posts are more various and interact with me, e, Glooble, and Awaclus.

Based on these measurements, I cast suspicion on your claim that you reread the massclaim discussion, which you say was a waste of time, and concluded that Glooble came off scummiest in the discussion.

I reread the massclaim discussion, which was a waste of time, and concluded that Glooble came off scummiest in the discussion. Granted, I was biased by his previous posts, but still. I am town. It is possible for town to arrive at that conclusion. Franky, it's egotistical to say that it's not, and it's also reductive and not very helpful.

I don't understand the basis for MiX thinking WCD is town. MiX if you have a good reason, I'm a very convinceable person who would like to know it. Right now I still think she's scum so I'm not going to just move because you say so.

Didds has been Didds this game, which means she's town. I have no reason to scumread her yet.

This is a bad answer, but I don't have easy reasons that I can elaborate on, and I'd like for you to see this post before I go reread her.
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MiX

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #290 on: August 25, 2021, 04:10:04 pm »

Faust has 9 posts on the topic, amounting to 326 words and 1870 characters.
Can you tell me which posts these are supposed to be?

I don't think Swowl is scum either but I'm willing to say that one of Didds/Swowl is more likely to be scum than any other 2 of my townreads.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #291 on: August 25, 2021, 04:14:32 pm »

I reread Didds and they're town. Just look at their second post in the game and tell me that was made knowing scum's roles. It wasn't.

WCD, who is scum to you?

I dunno. (And I don’t think anyone else really does either, except scum obvi). There is a pretty long list of folks who I think are towny. Mathdude, Dylan, and Galz are not on that list. And I’m not sure what I think of the current faust/Awaclus discussion.

Didds, can you explain why you thought mathdude and Dylan weren't towny to you at this point?
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #292 on: August 25, 2021, 04:19:41 pm »

Chiming back in on the reasons discussion, naked votes are much less helpful to town than votes with reasons. I know Awaclus disagrees, but how many times do his votes inspire follow up votes from other players? And why is his method so annoying to many of us? If you want the wagon to go through, you really do need to give reasons. faust tends to do naked votes for reactions, so maybe that was the case here. But scum would also do them to see what flies.
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Dylan32

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #293 on: August 25, 2021, 04:23:09 pm »

So I hadn't paid attention to the shorter deadlines, so realizing it's tomorrow, I'll Vote: Glooble for now. I don't have any strong scumreads yet, but there's actually been more good conversations that will be useful for scumhunting after a flip or two than I remember in recent RMM D1s (thanks to the relative lack of human/cylon/military/civilian/forwards-backwards-timeline oriented conversations lol).

Right now I think iguana is town, and Awaclus and faust are somewhat towny. I would be willing to exile basically any one of {Glooble, WCD, Swowl, e, EFHW}.

ppe 2
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #294 on: August 25, 2021, 04:28:51 pm »

Short days!

@e, what made you think of massclaim, anyway? They are usually disasters for town Day 1.

I’ve never seen it actually happen but I can imagine the disastrous scenarios. The one thing different in this game might be that I think our flavor names are unique and there probably isn’t a huge pool of possibly fake names since the WOOz is such a familiar text. I don’t think this reason is good enough to advocate for it, but it does seem different than the games we’ve played that are less tied to flavor.
MiX, is this the post you mean? I'm not getting obv!town from this. In fact, it sounds to me like she is supporting massclaim. The reference to fake names is also something that scum would thinking about more than town. And Didds has gotten pretty good lately at sounding towny when she isn't actually town. I haven't reviewed iguana's case on her in any detail yet, so for now I'm just questioning the conclusions you drew from this post.
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MiX

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #295 on: August 25, 2021, 04:29:51 pm »

Short days!

@e, what made you think of massclaim, anyway? They are usually disasters for town Day 1.

I’ve never seen it actually happen but I can imagine the disastrous scenarios. The one thing different in this game might be that I think our flavor names are unique and there probably isn’t a huge pool of possibly fake names since the WOOz is such a familiar text. I don’t think this reason is good enough to advocate for it, but it does seem different than the games we’ve played that are less tied to flavor.
MiX, is this the post you mean? I'm not getting obv!town from this. In fact, it sounds to me like she is supporting massclaim. The reference to fake names is also something that scum would thinking about more than town. And Didds has gotten pretty good lately at sounding towny when she isn't actually town. I haven't reviewed iguana's case on her in any detail yet, so for now I'm just questioning the conclusions you drew from this post.

Yes, it was.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #296 on: August 25, 2021, 04:50:02 pm »

I reread iguana's case, and partially agree with it. I also find "I wouldn't do this as scum" arguments scummy. But I've been present at the discussions with Shraeye about D1 no exile, and her points are very consistent with his. So NAI there. Iguana quoted part of this post:

 
Geez, Swowl. I ❤️ you so much. We are peacocks!

So I was saying hey and I missed you, and I voted because I hadn’t voted for anyone and Joth had just announced the five day days. But I was never gonna exile you D1.

I think it is super weird that Galz decided to characterize the lack of  behavior that I don’t usually exhibit was scummy. And he said I was doing it to look like I was engaging in the game, but he’s actually done something far more hollow than he accused me of. It’s weird.

To your questions, MiX…. I’ve had a hard time getting into things in the last 24 hours because Glooble and faust essenatilly turned an off hand comment by e about massclaiming into a pretty deep tangent that mimic the kind of set-up talk that makes me glaze over. When I cast back, I think Glooble comes from scummier than faust in that exchange.

I will vote: Glooble for now

This does ring some medium level scumbells for me. "Can't get into the game" and "Glooble comes off scummier in the exchange" and blaming that discussion for her lack of posting all feel like someone with a weak investment in scumhunting.

vote: Didds. I would go back to e. Also would vote Galz or faust. Need to reread Glooble.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #297 on: August 25, 2021, 04:51:22 pm »

I forgot mathdude. I would also vote for him.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #298 on: August 25, 2021, 04:58:43 pm »

Well I'm not gonna stop you from exiling Didds. But she is town.

Vote: Glooble

Vote Count 1.3.MiX

WestCoastDidds (4): Galzria, iguanaiguana, Glooble, EFHW
Glooble (3): WestCoastDidds, Dylan32, MiX
Swowl (2): faust, Awaclus
2.71828.... (1): Swowl
iguanaiguana (1): pubby
EFHW (1): 2.71828....

Not voting (1): mathdude

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WestCoastDidds

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #299 on: August 25, 2021, 05:11:20 pm »

I reread Didds and they're town. Just look at their second post in the game and tell me that was made knowing scum's roles. It wasn't.

WCD, who is scum to you?

I dunno. (And I don’t think anyone else really does either, except scum obvi). There is a pretty long list of folks who I think are towny. Mathdude, Dylan, and Galz are not on that list. And I’m not sure what I think of the current faust/Awaclus discussion.

Didds, can you explain why you thought mathdude and Dylan weren't towny to you at this point?

So, the other person who reads me well besides Swowl is MiX.

I don’t have a reason they weren’t towny, really. Mathdude hasn’t done much and I’m still getting to know him so null. I’m still salty with Dylan for leading to my loss last game, so I’m going gonna have a hard time finding him towny at all. And you didn’t ask but, Galz is obvious. He wastes are times with his now predictable attacks on me. I didnt and don’t think they scummy…just not towny.
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classic Diddsian meddling
I never got to read what Didds said, but whatever she's saying, she's right.
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