Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5  All

Author Topic: Weekly Design Contest #115: Don't Count On It  (Read 10392 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

mathdude

  • Conspirator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 214
  • Respect: +226
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest #115: Don't Count On It
« Reply #75 on: May 20, 2021, 06:41:19 pm »
0

Here's a gainer that can get you $5 cards, either into your hand or onto your deck, depending on when you play it.


Seems like you'd rarely want to play it at night, if you can avoid it, since the earlier it's played, the more options you have.  By the time you get to your Night phase, there's a good chance that you'll have already played any cards you'd want to gain with it, at least after the first few plays of this.  On the other hand, if you can play it early in your Action phase, it becomes basically a stronger Artisan.  This would work great with things like Way of the Turtle or Scheme
I agree, but things don't always work out as planned. So maybe this is drawn "dead", but you can still gain a $5 card for next turn. Or if it would be your final action for your turn and you'd rather pick up a $5 Action for next turn instead of a Silver to hand now.

I was comparing mainly to Vampire for the $5 gain. But comparing to Artisan, maybe it does need to cost $6?
Logged
he/him

mxdata

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1086
  • Respect: +1214
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest #115: Don't Count On It
« Reply #76 on: May 20, 2021, 06:47:12 pm »
0

Here's a gainer that can get you $5 cards, either into your hand or onto your deck, depending on when you play it.


Seems like you'd rarely want to play it at night, if you can avoid it, since the earlier it's played, the more options you have.  By the time you get to your Night phase, there's a good chance that you'll have already played any cards you'd want to gain with it, at least after the first few plays of this.  On the other hand, if you can play it early in your Action phase, it becomes basically a stronger Artisan.  This would work great with things like Way of the Turtle or Scheme
I agree, but things don't always work out as planned. So maybe this is drawn "dead", but you can still gain a $5 card for next turn. Or if it would be your final action for your turn and you'd rather pick up a $5 Action for next turn instead of a Silver to hand now.

I was comparing mainly to Vampire for the $5 gain. But comparing to Artisan, maybe it does need to cost $6?

No, I think it's probably fine at $5. I think that restriction to cards you don't have in play probably weakens it enough relative to Artisan to justify the $5 cost.  It's certainly stronger if you get to play it at the start of your turn, but if you don't draw it until you've already played a few strong cards, it becomes weaker than Artisan
« Last Edit: May 20, 2021, 06:48:31 pm by mxdata »
Logged
They/them

Timinou

  • Witch
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 486
  • Respect: +628
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest #115: Don't Count On It
« Reply #77 on: May 20, 2021, 07:02:50 pm »
0

This Event really likes Highway. Drop 3 of them and you can turn your Coppers into Silvers (and mix in a Workshop to start gaining discounted cards).

Yes, with enough cost reduction, you could swap out Coppers (or potentially any card, but that requires more setup) for expensive stuff.     

I don't know if that's broken, as it would depend on what cards are available.  I mean if there are good $2-cost cantrips in the Kingdom, I think you would happily swap out your Coppers for them with just two Highways in play. 

Quote
It also lets you get your hands on a Lost City or Cursed Village without the on-gain penalty (this would be especially attractive if you could use a $5 with +Buy, like Market or Contraband, for the swap).

That's true; exchanging instead of returning and then gaining does avoid on-gain penalties; at the same time, it also prevents you from getting on-gain bonuses (e.g. with Silk Merchant or Lackeys).  The card could have made players return cards to the supply and then gain the other cards, but it took less text to say "exchange" and I figured that's already a keyword that players are already accustomed to.
Logged

emtzalex

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 670
  • Respect: +1179
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest #115: Don't Count On It
« Reply #78 on: May 20, 2021, 10:50:32 pm »
+1

This Event really likes Highway. Drop 3 of them and you can turn your Coppers into Silvers (and mix in a Workshop to start gaining discounted cards).

Yes, with enough cost reduction, you could swap out Coppers (or potentially any card, but that requires more setup) for expensive stuff.     

I don't know if that's broken, as it would depend on what cards are available.  I mean if there are good $2-cost cantrips in the Kingdom, I think you would happily swap out your Coppers for them with just two Highways in play. 

I don't think it's broken. With 3 Highways you can do far crazier things than swapping some Coppers for Silvers (like setting aside King's Court with Prince and playing it every turn for the rest of the game).

I think combo that is closest to broken would be to use 2 Highways to swap numerous Coppers for Fool's Golds. That's not that many Highways to have, and the FGs are inherently more potent when you get a bunch of them. But even that I don't think is broken as it still requires (a) 3 different Kingdom entries to all be present, and (b) colliding 2 $5 cards (which, in addition to being challenging, probably means a lower concentration of Coppers by the time it happens).

When you start talking about many more Highways, there is a much more potent official combo, which is Highway and Seaway. If you can use Seaway to put the +1 Buy token on your Highway, pile the card (or come close), then play 8 of them, you can empty the Province pile (at least in a 2 player game) without spending a single $.


Quote
It also lets you get your hands on a Lost City or Cursed Village without the on-gain penalty (this would be especially attractive if you could use a $5 with +Buy, like Market or Contraband, for the swap).

That's true; exchanging instead of returning and then gaining does avoid on-gain penalties; at the same time, it also prevents you from getting on-gain bonuses (e.g. with Silk Merchant or Lackeys).  The card could have made players return cards to the supply and then gain the other cards, but it took less text to say "exchange" and I figured that's already a keyword that players are already accustomed to.

I think this has less capacity for overpowering than return and gain. My first thought on this (before I remembered that exchanging did not count as gaining) was that Skulk was ridiculous combined with this, because you could use its +Buy and spend $2 to return the Skulk and gain another Skulk, meaning the on-gain ability effectively became an on-play ability (albeit at the cost of $2). With Lost City or Cursed Village, you still have to buy, then play, another $5 card, and then buy the event that turn. Depending on what's in the Kingdom, the penalty you are avoiding isn't that much more of a disadvantage (especially, in some cases, Cursed Village, which could be a handsize attack that has no effect by the time you're buying cards).
Logged
he/him/his

Thanks to Shard of Honor for his Extended Version of the Dominion Card Image Generator, which I use to mock up my fan cards, and to Violet CLM, who made the original.

The Alchemist

  • Golem
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 175
  • Respect: +211
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest #115: Don't Count On It
« Reply #79 on: May 21, 2021, 12:20:38 am »
0

Here's a gainer that can get you $5 cards, either into your hand or onto your deck, depending on when you play it.


Seems like you'd rarely want to play it at night, if you can avoid it, since the earlier it's played, the more options you have.  By the time you get to your Night phase, there's a good chance that you'll have already played any cards you'd want to gain with it, at least after the first few plays of this.  On the other hand, if you can play it early in your Action phase, it becomes basically a stronger Artisan.  This would work great with things like Way of the Turtle or Scheme

You'd want to play it at night if you don't have the terminal space for it, which is very often. Its terminal in the Action phase, but non-terminal in the Night phase, that's plenty reason enough to often want to play it at night. Also, sometimes setting up for your next turn is a much greater benefit than having a slightly better current turn. A Lab at the start of your next turn is  very often better than a Lab now.
Logged

mxdata

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1086
  • Respect: +1214
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest #115: Don't Count On It
« Reply #80 on: May 21, 2021, 02:06:06 am »
+1

Here's a gainer that can get you $5 cards, either into your hand or onto your deck, depending on when you play it.


Seems like you'd rarely want to play it at night, if you can avoid it, since the earlier it's played, the more options you have.  By the time you get to your Night phase, there's a good chance that you'll have already played any cards you'd want to gain with it, at least after the first few plays of this.  On the other hand, if you can play it early in your Action phase, it becomes basically a stronger Artisan.  This would work great with things like Way of the Turtle or Scheme

You'd want to play it at night if you don't have the terminal space for it, which is very often. Its terminal in the Action phase, but non-terminal in the Night phase, that's plenty reason enough to often want to play it at night. Also, sometimes setting up for your next turn is a much greater benefit than having a slightly better current turn. A Lab at the start of your next turn is  very often better than a Lab now.

True, but you can only get a Lab if you haven't played a Lab already.  By your night phase, there's a good chance you've already played the cards you'd want to gain, especially if you have a strong engine
Logged
They/them

emtzalex

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 670
  • Respect: +1179
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest #115: Don't Count On It
« Reply #81 on: May 21, 2021, 10:59:04 am »
0

Here's a gainer that can get you $5 cards, either into your hand or onto your deck, depending on when you play it.


Seems like you'd rarely want to play it at night, if you can avoid it, since the earlier it's played, the more options you have.  By the time you get to your Night phase, there's a good chance that you'll have already played any cards you'd want to gain with it, at least after the first few plays of this.  On the other hand, if you can play it early in your Action phase, it becomes basically a stronger Artisan.  This would work great with things like Way of the Turtle or Scheme
I agree, but things don't always work out as planned. So maybe this is drawn "dead", but you can still gain a $5 card for next turn. Or if it would be your final action for your turn and you'd rather pick up a $5 Action for next turn instead of a Silver to hand now.

I was comparing mainly to Vampire for the $5 gain. But comparing to Artisan, maybe it does need to cost $6?

Vampire is an interesting comparison. At first blush I thought this was too powerful, comparing it Artisan and Altar. Vampire's limitation is that you can only play it (at best) every other time it/Bat comes around (and less frequently if you don't want to trash when you get Bat). But, I

One note on wording. For the Action version, I believe it should say "put it into your hand." (See Wishing Well, Patrol, Fortress, Villa).


True, but you can only get a Lab if you haven't played a Lab already.  By your night phase, there's a good chance you've already played the cards you'd want to gain, especially if you have a strong engine

Because of this, I think this card would have strong synergies with (a) one-shot or otherwise disappearing Action cards; and (b) Kingdom Treasure cards. In the first category, Wine Merchant stands out, as does Distant Lands (which you can gain later in the game and feel confident you'll be able to put away). It would also work well with Pillage (which you could play on every turn following the turn you played this as a Night), and even Experiment. In the latter category, there are multiple really solid $5 Treasures (Venture, Counterfeit, Relic, Idol), and you can play this terminally during your Action phase and still use the Treasure you gain to your hand. (I would point out that if you had flipped the phrasing and said "If it's your Night phase...onto your deck. Otherwise...your hand" (which is the construction Werewolf uses) then on your first play of this you could use it to pile out Scepter, playing it during your Action phase to gain the first, then using each Scepter to replay IW and gain another Scepter).


You'd want to play it at night if you don't have the terminal space for it, which is very often. Its terminal in the Action phase, but non-terminal in the Night phase, that's plenty reason enough to often want to play it at night. Also, sometimes setting up for your next turn is a much greater benefit than having a slightly better current turn. A Lab at the start of your next turn is  very often better than a Lab now.

Along these lines (and maybe this is what you are saying), I could imagine that it would frequently be the case that you have an Action to use, but only one, and you want to gain an Action card (even a non-terminal one), you would rather topdeck it than effectively gain it dead to your hand.
Logged
he/him/his

Thanks to Shard of Honor for his Extended Version of the Dominion Card Image Generator, which I use to mock up my fan cards, and to Violet CLM, who made the original.

mxdata

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1086
  • Respect: +1214
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest #115: Don't Count On It
« Reply #82 on: May 21, 2021, 01:32:04 pm »
0

Because of this, I think this card would have strong synergies with (a) one-shot or otherwise disappearing Action cards; and (b) Kingdom Treasure cards. In the first category, Wine Merchant stands out, as does Distant Lands (which you can gain later in the game and feel confident you'll be able to put away). It would also work well with Pillage (which you could play on every turn following the turn you played this as a Night), and even Experiment. In the latter category, there are multiple really solid $5 Treasures (Venture, Counterfeit, Relic, Idol), and you can play this terminally during your Action phase and still use the Treasure you gain to your hand. (I would point out that if you had flipped the phrasing and said "If it's your Night phase...onto your deck. Otherwise...your hand" (which is the construction Werewolf uses) then on your first play of this you could use it to pile out Scepter, playing it during your Action phase to gain the first, then using each Scepter to replay IW and gain another Scepter).

That wouldn't work though, because that Scepter is in play, so it would be unable to gain a second Scepter
Logged
They/them

segura

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 1152
  • Respect: +1017
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest #115: Don't Count On It
« Reply #83 on: May 21, 2021, 01:44:54 pm »
+1

Because of this, I think this card would have strong synergies with (a) one-shot or otherwise disappearing Action cards; and (b) Kingdom Treasure cards. In the first category, Wine Merchant stands out, as does Distant Lands (which you can gain later in the game and feel confident you'll be able to put away). It would also work well with Pillage (which you could play on every turn following the turn you played this as a Night), and even Experiment.
Sure, Wine Merchant and Distant Lands are cards you really want severals off. But we know from Artisan how hard it is to immediately play the hand-gained card, it only works if you played two villages before. Experiment is a good point as this makes the card effectively a Hunting Grounds (you just gotta count the net effects) for $5 .


Quote
In the latter category, there are multiple really solid $5 Treasures (Venture, Counterfeit, Relic, Idol), and you can play this terminally during your Action phase and still use the Treasure you gain to your hand. (I would point out that if you had flipped the phrasing and said "If it's your Night phase...onto your deck. Otherwise...your hand" (which is the construction Werewolf uses) then on your first play of this you could use it to pile out Scepter, playing it during your Action phase to gain the first, then using each Scepter to replay IW and gain another Scepter).
Sure, this is neat, but in general you want to gain engine pieces with gainers. It is quite likely that you played your villages, Smithies and Labs before you played Inventor's Workshop and there are only so many stop cards that your deck wants.

Handgaining is only strong if terminal space is not scarce but this gainer is worse at gaining splitters than nearly all other gainers so its handgaining is not as strong as it looks at the first glance.
Logged

naitchman

  • Conspirator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 242
  • Respect: +259
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest #115: Don't Count On It
« Reply #84 on: May 21, 2021, 04:12:44 pm »
+1



Started pretty simple, then realized it needed some fluff. "Non-Duration", "On their turn", etc.

Still. Go on. Play your Militia. Do it. I'm eagerly waiting  :) . Something as naÔve as playing a Village is helpful. Gives you a hand of 6 cards. Then trashing a card from your hand on your next turn becomes even more appealing. Imagine your opponent playing a King's Court first on their turn, lol. Their turn? Your turn now.

Isn't this disqualified because it says "first time"?
Logged

LastFootnote

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7467
  • Shuffle iT Username: LastFootnote
  • Respect: +10648
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest #115: Don't Count On It
« Reply #85 on: May 21, 2021, 05:07:37 pm »
+1

Isn't this disqualified because it says "first time"?

Yes, it was already disqualified for that reason.
Logged

The Alchemist

  • Golem
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 175
  • Respect: +211
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest #115: Don't Count On It
« Reply #86 on: May 21, 2021, 07:35:41 pm »
+3

I would like to change my submission to this:



Part Cardinal, part Monastery, part Hermit, Excommunicate is a great way to quickly banish away large swaths of your deck in the dead of night, but be careful, sometimes you can accidentally exile the baby with the bathwater. Being played in the Night phase, the Actions and Treasures you play will be safe from its indiscriminate removal, however the same can't be said of any dead actions in your hand or cards gained in that turn. This can be a great boon by shuffling away your greens before you can even see them, but for any actions or treasures you're going to need to buy them again to discard them from Exile on a turn you don't play Excommunicate, otherwise back into exile they go!

(Although this is replacing my previous submission Harbor, I would still like feedback on that card if anyone would be so keen as to do so)
Logged

mxdata

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1086
  • Respect: +1214
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest #115: Don't Count On It
« Reply #87 on: May 21, 2021, 08:51:36 pm »
+4

I would like to change my submission to this:



Part Cardinal, part Monastery, part Hermit, Excommunicate is a great way to quickly banish away large swaths of your deck in the dead of night, but be careful, sometimes you can accidentally exile the baby with the bathwater. Being played in the Night phase, the Actions and Treasures you play will be safe from its indiscriminate removal, however the same can't be said of any dead actions in your hand or cards gained in that turn. This can be a great boon by shuffling away your greens before you can even see them, but for any actions or treasures you're going to need to buy them again to discard them from Exile on a turn you don't play Excommunicate, otherwise back into exile they go!

(Although this is replacing my previous submission Harbor, I would still like feedback on that card if anyone would be so keen as to do so)

This + any deck-drawing engine would make an instant golden deck.  Draw your deck, play all your cards, buy some Victory cards, and instantly Exile them.  Heck, you don't even need to draw your whole deck, you just need to trigger a reshuffle during your turn, to ensure that only the cards you bought that turn are Exiled
Logged
They/them

mxdata

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1086
  • Respect: +1214
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest #115: Don't Count On It
« Reply #88 on: May 21, 2021, 09:04:05 pm »
0



Simple card to send to exile any greens you don't want clogging your deck, but don't worry, any actions or treasures that might have gone along for the ride can be shipped back at a later date.

Interesting idea.  It's most useful late in the game when you're greening.  It would be of little use early in the game, when you're mostly gaining cards you don't *want* in Exile.  Its $2 cost is interesting in that aspect - a cheap card that you typically want to wait to buy, similar in that aspect to Black Cat

And speaking of Black Cat, it would be interesting with that card.  If your opponent plays a Black Cat while you have this out, then those Curses go straight to your Exile mat instead of into your discard pile
Logged
They/them

bootymancer

  • Herbalist
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8
  • Respect: +12
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest #115: Don't Count On It
« Reply #89 on: May 21, 2021, 09:35:50 pm »
0

My submission:


Quote
Way of the Opossum: Way-Night

Set aside any number of cards from your hand face up. Then, shuffle this and all cards set aside this way into your deck.

Those unplayed cards aren't dead - they are 'playing opossum'
Logged

mxdata

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1086
  • Respect: +1214
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest #115: Don't Count On It
« Reply #90 on: May 21, 2021, 10:28:03 pm »
+3

My submission:


Quote
Way of the Opossum: Way-Night

Set aside any number of cards from your hand face up. Then, shuffle this and all cards set aside this way into your deck.

Those unplayed cards aren't dead - they are 'playing opossum'

"Night - Way" doesn't work by the rules of Ways.  A Way can be used only when an Action card itself can be played (which is usually during your Action phase, but things like Crown played during your Buy phase, or a Reaction played on another person's turn can still be played with a Way), but it can't change when an Action card can be played
Logged
They/them

anordinaryman

  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 305
  • Respect: +371
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest #115: Don't Count On It
« Reply #91 on: May 22, 2021, 12:28:53 am »
+1

Updated entry



Quote
Legate | Action | $4
Gain and then play a non-Command Action card. Each other player may set aside a copy of that card from the Supply to gain that card at the end of their next turn.

Fixed the ambiguity of where the card is set aside from that LastFootnote pointed out (thanks again!). Also the card is now more succinctly phrased. Huzzah!
Logged

NoMoreFun

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1875
  • Respect: +1806
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest #115: Don't Count On It
« Reply #92 on: May 22, 2021, 12:32:54 am »
+2

I would like to change my submission to this:



Part Cardinal, part Monastery, part Hermit, Excommunicate is a great way to quickly banish away large swaths of your deck in the dead of night, but be careful, sometimes you can accidentally exile the baby with the bathwater. Being played in the Night phase, the Actions and Treasures you play will be safe from its indiscriminate removal, however the same can't be said of any dead actions in your hand or cards gained in that turn. This can be a great boon by shuffling away your greens before you can even see them, but for any actions or treasures you're going to need to buy them again to discard them from Exile on a turn you don't play Excommunicate, otherwise back into exile they go!

(Although this is replacing my previous submission Harbor, I would still like feedback on that card if anyone would be so keen as to do so)

This + any deck-drawing engine would make an instant golden deck.  Draw your deck, play all your cards, buy some Victory cards, and instantly Exile them.  Heck, you don't even need to draw your whole deck, you just need to trigger a reshuffle during your turn, to ensure that only the cards you bought that turn are Exiled

To slow it down, perhaps it should Exile itself too.
Logged

bootymancer

  • Herbalist
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8
  • Respect: +12
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest #115: Don't Count On It
« Reply #93 on: May 22, 2021, 03:20:12 am »
+3

"Night - Way" doesn't work by the rules of Ways.  A Way can be used only when an Action card itself can be played (which is usually during your Action phase, but things like Crown played during your Buy phase, or a Reaction played on another person's turn can still be played with a Way), but it can't change when an Action card can be played

Ah, good point! I misunderstood. I see now that 'Way-Night' is not really possible without some explicit text which would just over-complicate things. Here's the updated submission:


Quote
Way of the Opossum: Way

Set aside any number of cards from your hand face up. Then, shuffle this and all cards set aside this way into your deck.

Dropping 'Night' altogether still allows Way of the Opossum to keep much of its original functionality, albeit at the proper cost of an action (and a little bit of flavor).
Logged

The Alchemist

  • Golem
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 175
  • Respect: +211
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest #115: Don't Count On It
« Reply #94 on: May 22, 2021, 07:27:59 am »
0



This + any deck-drawing engine would make an instant golden deck.  Draw your deck, play all your cards, buy some Victory cards, and instantly Exile them.  Heck, you don't even need to draw your whole deck, you just need to trigger a reshuffle during your turn, to ensure that only the cards you bought that turn are Exiled

Many Exiling cards can already create a Golden deck, this is no exception. Sanctuary and 3 golds is golden. Remember exiling a single card on gain is roughly equivalent to drawing a card then exiling it (if you can draw your whole deck). And sanctuary gives a +buy, so it can easily make a 2 province golden deck on its own with a little draw, where this can't. I believe this is about as strong as sanctuary, since it is a much riskier thinner than sanctuary cause of the self-cardinalling effect early on while you're trying to thin.
Logged

segura

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 1152
  • Respect: +1017
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest #115: Don't Count On It
« Reply #95 on: May 22, 2021, 07:51:39 am »
+1

I think the problem is that this is early on something like a Chapel and later on something like a Bounty Hunter.
Logged

Shael

  • Thief
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 97
  • Respect: +50
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest #115: Don't Count On It
« Reply #96 on: May 22, 2021, 12:40:45 pm »
0

I would like to change my submission to this:

Part Cardinal, part Monastery, part Hermit, Excommunicate is a great way to quickly banish away large swaths of your deck in the dead of night, but be careful, sometimes you can accidentally exile the baby with the bathwater. Being played in the Night phase, the Actions and Treasures you play will be safe from its indiscriminate removal, however the same can't be said of any dead actions in your hand or cards gained in that turn. This can be a great boon by shuffling away your greens before you can even see them, but for any actions or treasures you're going to need to buy them again to discard them from Exile on a turn you don't play Excommunicate, otherwise back into exile they go!

(Although this is replacing my previous submission Harbor, I would still like feedback on that card if anyone would be so keen as to do so)

This + any deck-drawing engine would make an instant golden deck.  Draw your deck, play all your cards, buy some Victory cards, and instantly Exile them.  Heck, you don't even need to draw your whole deck, you just need to trigger a reshuffle during your turn, to ensure that only the cards you bought that turn are Exiled
I think golden deck is only a problem if this is the only way to win a game. Like every potential combo GD have to be monitor carefully; however, the principle of making a golden deck isn't something that make a card alowable or not. the only point is "are they OP / too easy to setup with this card"
Like a lot of strategy, it will have board where these types of deck are just dominant, but it's already the same with a lot of card. The only things we have to care about is: are they too usual and are they too easy to setup?

in a  certain way, I think my preocupation is more comparable as segura's one:
I think the problem is that this is early on something like a Chapel and later on something like a Bounty Hunter.
the fact that it make a golden deck could just be the tree that hide the forest (idk if this expresion exist in english btw)
« Last Edit: May 22, 2021, 12:51:32 pm by Shael »
Logged
§ Post here your favorite fan-cards § The Archive § Witchcraft, a Potion & Exile themed Expansion § Not so Soon §                                          

LastFootnote

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7467
  • Shuffle iT Username: LastFootnote
  • Respect: +10648
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest #115: Don't Count On It
« Reply #97 on: May 22, 2021, 08:08:44 pm »
+4

Submissions are closed. See you on the other side.
Logged

The Alchemist

  • Golem
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 175
  • Respect: +211
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest #115: Don't Count On It
« Reply #98 on: May 23, 2021, 06:13:55 am »
+1

If its not too late, I'd like to rescind my second submission. If you could judge Harbor instead, that would be preferred. Though if its too late no worries.
Logged

LastFootnote

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7467
  • Shuffle iT Username: LastFootnote
  • Respect: +10648
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest #115: Don't Count On It
« Reply #99 on: May 23, 2021, 09:35:54 pm »
+8

Iím really impressed with the quality of entries, especially considering the stringent limitations for this contest. Thanks to everybody who participated! Here are the entries in alphabetical order:

Abandoned Stone by majiponi
Itís interesting to think about more cards like Champion and Hireling, and that sort of card is tough to balance. Sadly, I think Abandoned Stone is too complex. I think thereís some merit to the premise though. Being able to fish a card (or cards) out of your discard pile each turn seems like an interesting effect. Thereís got to be a simpler way to do it, though.

Alchemical Factory by JW
I like this concept a lot. For $6, I think it should probably gain a differently named card costing as much or less. As it is, I think Alchemical Factory should be cheaper. I think there are times youíd use the effect, but would you use it often enough to be worth buying Alchemical Factory? I honestly donít know. Cool idea, though.

Border Crossing by scolapasta
Now this is one elegant card. Itís hard to judge whether $4 is a good cost for it. The main thing Iím thinking is: itís so cheap that if people get a bunch, the piles are going to go very quickly. So Iíd almost suggest charging more and giving a vanilla bonus but whoops, obviously that wonít fly in this contest. So I canít hold that against it. Making the gain optional for other players would remove some of its functionality, but that functionality probably shouldnít be on a card without the Attack type. Also itís pretty nuts with e.g. City Quarter. Anyway Iím criticizing it a lot, but I really like this card.

Conglomerate by spineflu
Another ďstays in playĒ entry here. I like how simple it looks, but I think it interacts strangely with shuffles. The way the rules of Dominion currently work, if you need to do something with X cards on your deck, and you have fewer than X cards in your deck AND have cards in your discard pile, you shuffle your discard pile and put it under your deck. Because Conglomerate can discard a card right after you shuffle, it can prompt you to immediately shuffle again! So Iíd probably remove the discard option. I recognize thatís a nerf (canít get past your payload without exiling it), but I think itís necessary. I guess you could put the card on the bottom of your deck instead of discarding it, if you wanted to keep that option. Anyway, cool card.

Courtyard of Miracles by Shael
Yet another ďstays in playĒ card. Iím a big fan of effects that gain a Copper to your hand. At first I was thinking, this should trigger at the start of each of your Buy phases instead, since youíd have a better idea then of whether youíd need an extra $1 that turn. But since it triggers at the start of turn, it combos with Cellar and other cards that want a large hand size. I donít think it should give an option between the two times, so I guess itís fine as-is. BUT, people have made a valid point that once you get 3 or 4 of these in play, you can basically just get a Province every turn. I think for that reason, this would work better as a Project.

Farrier by Chappy7
Whoooooa, no! Thatís too many Horses, my friend. Horses are slow to resolve, is one big thing. Livery already gains too many Horses, and this is worse. It wonít be hard to make a deck that gains at least 6 Horses every turn by revealing a Gold with this, and thatís without villages and more expensive Actions/Treasures (like Platinum).

Gold Smithy by Xen3k
Hey, I think I used this art for testing an official card that I called Jeweler! It was the one time I used a different name than Donald X.ís version of the card, which he called Stonecutter. Man, thatís too close to ďStonemasonĒ I thought, but also I just couldnít find any good ďStonecutterĒ art. Anyway. This uses a pretty tortured wording in order to not use numbers, I think. It should probably say ďIf you drew more than 4 cardsĒ or whatever. But I think in general itís just a little too complex. Itís got a bunch of clauses to try to even out its power level, but as a result the card has too many concepts and itís hard to remember what all it does.

Grand Feast by emtzalex
Well, hmmm. Itís a cute idea but I get this feeling it wouldnít play so great in practice. Thatís a lot of cards to draw and discard, and Iím guessing it would take a while, depending on how many cards you started with. This gets a lot of points for elegant wording, but I think probably the ability is too clunky.

Harbor by The Alchemist
This is a very interesting one. In general, the ability to exile incoming Victory cards is crazy strong. Stronger than Sanctuary even, since you donít have to draw the Victory cards at all. There was actually a Reserve outtake in Adventures that was cut for this very reason. I like the ability to play an Action card from Exile (or to put a Treasure into your hand), but Iím guessing thatís all dwarfed by the Victory card exiling. Probably you mostly get this right before greening and then just go nuts gaining Victory cards. Maybe Iím wrong about that, but either way this card seems incredibly strong for $2.

Horse Race by 4est
I like how thematic this is, but Iím guessing it does gain too many Horses. Though being a Duration at least means you can only play it every other turn, so that helps. However, one big thing about Horses is that you never (other than Conspirator) have to keep track of how many youíve played. The Duration effect of Horse Race throws that right out the window. Now having untrackable +Actions isnít a deal breaker by itself, but itís a strike against the card. Anyway I do like the concept and I think the flavor ties it all together nicely, despite my complaints.

Inventorís Workshop by mathdude.
Sorry, this is immediately disqualified because your username makes my think of math, which goes against the spirit of the contest. Iím kidding, of course. But seriously, this should probably say ďup to $5Ē if it werenít an entry for this contest. Also Iím guessing itís extremly strong. I know people often mostly consider the case when youíre drawing your deck, but even in engines, thereís a lot of game where that isnít happening. If you get this as your first $5, your deck is often going to ramp up ridiculously quickly. And then at the end you can spend Actions on it to gain Duchies. Or hey, if youíre ending the game this turn, you donít care if the Duchies go onto your deck!

Jasmine by mandioca15
This also seems very strong to me. You wonít always collide it with e.g. Gold, but once you do itís extremely powerful, whether youíre building or greening. Itís nice that it always gives you at least a $3 card, but I think itís too strong overall. I do like the concept, but I wonder if thereís a way to tone it down a bit.

Legate by anordinaryman
A cool concept for sure. Gain and play an Action card. I think probably Iíd just have the other player gain a copy of the card and balance it around that, rather than having them set it aside. But maybe that makes Legate too weak at any cost, I donít know. Regardless, I think this probably empties piles very quickly, especially because itís effectively non-terminal. And if there arenít enough copies of a card to go around, missing out on a copy with Legate soundsóon averageóway worse than missing out on cards Messenger is distributing.

Metamorphose by Timinou
This is a good concept and seems well-balanced, but itís just a bit too wordy. I would suggest limiting it to one card and giving it +1 Buy. Of course that still leaves it cramped. It could cost $1 and be once-per-turn, I guess. Anyway itís a good idea.

Overlook by gambit05
This is clever. I like that you get another chance to activate the ability in case there are no Actions in your discard pile when you play it. Itís possible you wonít have any in your discard pile then either, but hey, sometimes thatís on you. Iíd consider lowering the cost to $2. In many ways itís like a cantrip. The one downside to it is that you have to decide which way to use it before looking through your discard pile, but I sure wouldnít complicate it to fix that issue.

Portcullis by faust
Hmm, sort of a Tactican-like effect, but can also exile your Victory cards. I think I like it. I mean if youíve drawn your deck itís like a super-Sanctuary, but also you canít play Treasures that turn. Neat. And also in games with other exile effects, it may shunt all your exiled Coppers back into your hand.

Recycle by mxdata
Combos aside, I think this is pretty weak for a $5 card. I like these sorts of flexible effects, but itís expensive for an effect that only downgrades your cards. Unless thereís something Iím missing, Iíd try this at $2 first.

Scribe by fika monster
Hmm. Great with cards you want to discard anyway, like Victory cards. When discarding other cards, the extra flexibility is probably not usually worth it. But then you have the bottom half, which seems pretty strong. It works when discarding it from anywhere, including your hand or from in play. But thatís not going to be super clear to a lot of players. All in all, I think Scribe is trying to do too many things at once. Usually Reaction cards have very terse on-play effects, and for good reason.

Socialite by NoMoreFun
So part of me thought, man this is sort of a way to weasel around numbers, since youíll usually draw to 6 cards in hand. But actually I really like the fact that it interacts with things that modify othersí hand size. Itís a little twist, but it doesnít make the card super complex. Itís just interesting enough. Two thumbs up.

Strategem by xyz123
So this is sort of a card version of Delay or Way of the Turtle, but instead of using up a buy or an action, it takes up a card in your hand (except when you first gain it, when it does use up a buy and $2). I like it a lot, but I bet itís weak even at $2. But when not in the context of this contest, Iíd love to see this with a bonus of some sort. Although hey, maybe Iím wrong and itís not weak at $2. It is a village of sorts.

Tinker by Aquila
A on-demand mini-Forge of sorts. Itís an interesting idea. I guess in some ways itís similar to Salvager, allowing you to use the $ from the cost of a card and apply it to gaining another card. Itís hard to believe it has to cost $6, but maybe Iím just not thinking through all the possibilities.

Way of the Opossum by bootymancer
Sort of a mega-Way of the Frog, but without the +Action. I think probably itís pretty niche, but maybe thatís fine for a Way. Itís different enough from Frog to co-exist, but it still doesnít jump out at me as particularly exciting. Way of the Frog is already one of the more marginal Ways, in my experience.



These are some really tough calls. I wish Iíd had time to test the top contenders in order to make a more informed choice. As it is Iíll use the time-honored tradtional guesswork, the best way to judge Dominion cards.

Honorable Mentions: Alchemical Factory by JW, Courtyard of Miracles by Shael, Legate by anordinaryman, Overlook by gambit05, Socialite by NoMoreFun, and Strategem by xyz123

Runner Up: Portcullis by faust

Winner: Border Crossing by scolapasta
Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5  All
 

Page created in 0.105 seconds with 21 queries.