Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6  All

Author Topic: Weekly Design Contest #113: Power Up!  (Read 16380 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

DunnoItAll

  • Thief
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 97
  • Respect: +127
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest #113: Power Up!
« Reply #50 on: April 30, 2021, 12:52:20 pm »
+1



Cool card, but it doesn't fit the contest, which requires that it be something that affects all players equally in most cases.  This refers to your own Exile mat, meaning each player's Horsemaster would have a different strength, depending on how many Horses are in their own Exile mat

Yep, good point.  Will fix.
Logged

gambit05

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 584
  • Respect: +495
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest #113: Power Up!
« Reply #51 on: April 30, 2021, 01:05:14 pm »
+3


My Submission:

   
Hunter
$3* – Action

Quote

+2 Cards
+1 Card per empty Supply pile.

     You may trash this to gain a card     
costing up to $1 more than it.

---------------------------

This costs $1 more per
empty Supply pile.


Logged

anordinaryman

  • Duke
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 363
  • Respect: +502
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest #113: Power Up!
« Reply #52 on: April 30, 2021, 01:15:07 pm »
0

Submission



Quote
Study | Action | $2
+2 Cards
If this is the first time you played a Study this turn, +1 Buy
If the Study supply pile is empty, +1 Action
I think this is going to be problematic. There are 2 ways that Study can be activated: Either you are steadily buying Studies, which means you probably have a way to generate a bunch of actions - and then the benefit doesn't do a whole lot, so it was probably not worth it to go for Studies in the first place.

The other scenario is dumping a lot of Studies into your deck in a single turn. If this is feasible, then the player who does it probably gets a game-deciding advantage, and that doesn't sound like a lot of fun.

Thanks for your feedback. I actually disagree with both scenarios.

Scenario 1: you claim that you have a bunch of actions so Studies aren't worth it. This simply isn't true. When building an engine you like to build your draw up first and then add payload (okay it's not that linear but it's a basic trend). When Studies function as draw early on, when the pile is empty you now have actions leftover to play your terminal payload. It works great in this case! In addition, every deck appreciates reliability, and non-terminal Studies are very reliable!

Scenario 2: This one is a little more compelling, but if you have a way to gain say 6+ of studies in one turn, you're likely doing well enough that you don't actually need the Studies that much. In the case you grab multiple, like 3, well, there's still opportunity for people to grab more and it's not decisive. In a game with +buys and stone masons, everyone probably wants to rush studies, such that no one will have the chance to gain a strong majority of them. I like to think of this like other cheap important splits, like fools gold.
Logged

Wolflover

  • Herbalist
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5
  • Respect: +5
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest #113: Power Up!
« Reply #53 on: April 30, 2021, 02:18:51 pm »
0

Removed for now
« Last Edit: April 30, 2021, 05:01:15 pm by Wolflover »
Logged

segura

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1529
  • Respect: +1423
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest #113: Power Up!
« Reply #54 on: April 30, 2021, 02:37:47 pm »
0

Does this count as fitting this weeks challenge?


Decision making concerning Projects revolves around IF and WHEN to buy it. Stuff with green like Road Network and Crop Rotation has the focus on when, timing is tricky with those.
Your card makes the timing utterly trivial. You will never buy it early (which can make sense with the two aforementioned Projects) and always (it is a more flexible, automatic Prince and usually stronger than Citadel) buy it when one pile is empty respectively about to empty.

How is edit 2?
I really liked the second version. Sure, in some Kingdoms Buys are easy to come by early and at 5/2 without any decent 2 this is also automatic. But more often than not, it provides agonizing decisions.

Version 2 is miles better than the current/original version which flips from worthless to stronger than the most powerful official Project once a pile empties. That is simply too much of a power shift. No other official card does this. With Prince or Citadel you gotta think, they are not automatic and I guess everybody here bought them when it was wrong (Prince is trickier than Citadel). This is not the case with your card, it is so powerful that you absolutely have to buy the Project once a pile is empty (unless it is really later in the game and Duchy or an $6 Alt-VP is superior).
« Last Edit: April 30, 2021, 02:38:48 pm by segura »
Logged

Gubump

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1532
  • Shuffle iT Username: Gubump
  • Respect: +1677
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest #113: Power Up!
« Reply #55 on: April 30, 2021, 02:38:21 pm »
+2

Market Dealer $3 Action
+1 card +1 coin
If you have 4 or more cards in play +1 card per card over 4.

I'm pretty sure this doesn't qualify.
  • The activation should be irreversible in most cases and not based on transient conditions.
  • All copies of the card should be activated for all players once the specific trigger is met.

This fits neither of those qualifications. This uses a transient, player-specific condition similar to Conspirator, which was specifically listed as an example of something that doesn't qualify.
Logged
All of my fan card mockups are credited to Shard of Honor and his Dominion Card Image Generator (the new fork).
If you're having font issues with the generator, click this link and click on the button to request temporary access to the demo server that loads the font.

Wolflover

  • Herbalist
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5
  • Respect: +5
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest #113: Power Up!
« Reply #56 on: April 30, 2021, 05:00:44 pm »
0

Market Dealer $3 Action
+1 card +1 coin
If you have 4 or more cards in play +1 card per card over 4.

I'm pretty sure this doesn't qualify.
  • The activation should be irreversible in most cases and not based on transient conditions.
  • All copies of the card should be activated for all players once the specific trigger is met.

This fits neither of those qualifications. This uses a transient, player-specific condition similar to Conspirator, which was specifically listed as an example of something that doesn't qualify.
Yup, you are right. Will take off
Logged

JW

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 968
  • Shuffle iT Username: JW
  • Respect: +1781
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest #113: Power Up!
« Reply #57 on: April 30, 2021, 07:05:34 pm »
+1

Forest Witch

Action - Attack
+, +1 Buy.
Take a Villager from the Forest Witch Supply pile. If you can’t, +1 Villager and each other player gains a curse.
Setup: Put two Villagers per player on the Forest Witch Supply pile.

This is inspired by Coven. Cursers are less dominating if they don’t junk your deck right away. The symmetry of when it starts handing out curses means that it needs a reason why it should get bought by the first player to do so. But I also don’t want it to be an auto-buy.

Flavor: I think of the Witch in Into the Woods stealing the baby Rapunzel. “Forest” also fits with the not-so-missed Woodcutter.

Updates: None so far.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2021, 07:03:31 pm by JW »
Logged

scolapasta

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 578
  • Respect: +734
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest #113: Power Up!
« Reply #58 on: April 30, 2021, 09:46:43 pm »
+2


My Submission:

   
Hunter
$3* – Action

Quote

+2 Cards
+1 Card per empty Supply pile.

     You may trash this to gain a card     
costing up to $1 more than it.

---------------------------

This costs $1 more per
empty Supply pile.


I do like the idea of these cards that "power up" costing more based on the power up, like Community and Hunter as I think it makes an interesting decision on when to buy - getting them early when they might be weak, but at a discount, for their later powered up state. So you've got my vote there.

But I might suggest trying to avoid being strictly better than any of the official cards during any of the "ages" of the card;  i.e. In Hunter's case, with one empty supply pile, it is is "strictly better" than Smithy.
Logged
Feel free to join us at scolapasta's cards for discussion on any of my custom cards.

Gubump

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1532
  • Shuffle iT Username: Gubump
  • Respect: +1677
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest #113: Power Up!
« Reply #59 on: April 30, 2021, 10:29:18 pm »
+5


My Submission:

   
Hunter
$3* – Action

Quote

+2 Cards
+1 Card per empty Supply pile.

     You may trash this to gain a card     
costing up to $1 more than it.

---------------------------

This costs $1 more per
empty Supply pile.


I do like the idea of these cards that "power up" costing more based on the power up, like Community and Hunter as I think it makes an interesting decision on when to buy - getting them early when they might be weak, but at a discount, for their later powered up state. So you've got my vote there.

But I might suggest trying to avoid being strictly better than any of the official cards during any of the "ages" of the card;  i.e. In Hunter's case, with one empty supply pile, it is is "strictly better" than Smithy.

You mean like how City is strictly better than both Laboratory and Lost City when Supply piles are empty?
Logged
All of my fan card mockups are credited to Shard of Honor and his Dominion Card Image Generator (the new fork).
If you're having font issues with the generator, click this link and click on the button to request temporary access to the demo server that loads the font.

Xen3k

  • Tactician
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 413
  • Respect: +581
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest #113: Power Up!
« Reply #60 on: April 30, 2021, 11:10:38 pm »
+1



Quote
Barter Town - $5
Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
Trash a card from your hand to pick a type it has. For each differently named card of that type in the trash, +1 Card. Then, discard that many cards.

Junk Dealer variant. Can act as a super sifter if the trash is set up properly. Everyone with a Barter Town benefits from a full trash. Feedback appreciated.

Edit: Thinking of giving it a +Buy, because it feels like it may need it. Not sure.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2021, 11:27:40 pm by Xen3k »
Logged

scolapasta

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 578
  • Respect: +734
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest #113: Power Up!
« Reply #61 on: May 01, 2021, 12:11:59 am »
+1


My Submission:

   
Hunter
$3* – Action

Quote

+2 Cards
+1 Card per empty Supply pile.

     You may trash this to gain a card     
costing up to $1 more than it.

---------------------------

This costs $1 more per
empty Supply pile.


I do like the idea of these cards that "power up" costing more based on the power up, like Community and Hunter as I think it makes an interesting decision on when to buy - getting them early when they might be weak, but at a discount, for their later powered up state. So you've got my vote there.

But I might suggest trying to avoid being strictly better than any of the official cards during any of the "ages" of the card;  i.e. In Hunter's case, with one empty supply pile, it is is "strictly better" than Smithy.

You mean like how City is strictly better than both Laboratory and Lost City when Supply piles are empty?

Sure, good point. There is a difference though. When supply piles are empty, City is (effectively) strictly worse at the same cost. So strategically you need to decide whether to buy the card early at a premium or wait until it's powered up.

In the case of Hunter (and Community), if you get the card early, it's at a discount, instead.

Put another way, City is strictly worse, then strictly better. Changing costs cards should try to be balanced (and therefore not strictly better or worse) at all "ages". (at least, in my opinion)
« Last Edit: May 01, 2021, 01:01:03 am by scolapasta »
Logged
Feel free to join us at scolapasta's cards for discussion on any of my custom cards.

segura

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1529
  • Respect: +1423
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest #113: Power Up!
« Reply #62 on: May 01, 2021, 01:08:14 am »
+1

So you point is that the card is strong at its price if no pile ever empties (except for the last turn). I think that is ridiculous, it is an obvious $2 power-wise. If you go heavy on the Improve option, you limit the supposed late game craziness of the card as you just got rid of it.
Logged

segura

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1529
  • Respect: +1423
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest #113: Power Up!
« Reply #63 on: May 01, 2021, 01:21:25 am »
+1



Quote
Barter Town - $5
Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
Trash a card from your hand to pick a type it has. For each differently named card of that type in the trash, +1 Card. Then, discard that many cards.

Junk Dealer variant. Can act as a super sifter if the trash is set up properly. Everyone with a Barter Town benefits from a full trash. Feedback appreciated.

Edit: Thinking of giving it a +Buy, because it feels like it may need it. Not sure.
This is a cantrip trasher with a Fugitive on top (and the potential to be stronger, Forum or more). Fugitive is stronger than Junk Dealer‘s Peddler, although the relative value of sifting as opposed to economy decreases with good trashing in the Kingdom.
So I think it is fine.
Logged

The Alchemist

  • Golem
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 175
  • Respect: +214
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest #113: Power Up!
« Reply #64 on: May 01, 2021, 04:54:55 am »
+3



Theatre "plays the part" of whatever cards are missing from the supply, be it draw cards, villages, or extra buys. If your kingdom is missing draw, this is a lab for $5, missing +actions, this is a village at $3, lost city for $6, market square for $3, etc. The more the supply lacks, the stronger, and more expensive, this card is. Meaning on boards with draw, actions, and buys, you can buy this as a cantrip for $2, empty the respective piles, and then this card effectively becomes the card you just emptied.

I rolled 50 sample kingdoms to get a quick feel for the number of conditions that one would expect Theatre to have met at the start of the game in any given kingdom. In 22 boards, none of the three conditions were met (there were draw, village, and +buy cards in the supply). In 20, one was met. In 7, two were met. And in only 1 were there no cards with +2 cards, +2 actions, or +1 buy. This means that in a plurality of games, this starts out as a cantrip, with room to get stronger as supplies empty. On average this card costs ~$3.5 at the start of the game.

This card is one taken from my Industrialization expansion, found here, I hope that is acceptable as to the fan card contest rules.
Logged

gambit05

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 584
  • Respect: +495
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest #113: Power Up!
« Reply #65 on: May 01, 2021, 05:12:26 am »
0


My Submission:

   
Hunter
$3* – Action

Quote

+2 Cards
+1 Card per empty Supply pile.

     You may trash this to gain a card     
costing up to $1 more than it.

---------------------------

This costs $1 more per
empty Supply pile.


I do like the idea of these cards that "power up" costing more based on the power up, like Community and Hunter as I think it makes an interesting decision on when to buy - getting them early when they might be weak, but at a discount, for their later powered up state. So you've got my vote there.

But I might suggest trying to avoid being strictly better than any of the official cards during any of the "ages" of the card;  i.e. In Hunter's case, with one empty supply pile, it is is "strictly better" than Smithy.

You mean like how City is strictly better than both Laboratory and Lost City when Supply piles are empty?

Sure, good point. There is a difference though. When supply piles are empty, City is (effectively) strictly worse at the same cost. So strategically you need to decide whether to buy the card early at a premium or wait until it's powered up.

In the case of Hunter (and Community), if you get the card early, it's at a discount, instead.

Put another way, City is strictly worse, then strictly better. Changing costs cards should try to be balanced (and therefore not strictly better or worse) at all "ages". (at least, in my opinion)

While Hunter has something in common with City, obviously, there are quite some differences too. Getting Hunter early at a discount is easy to achieve as it is cheap, but if you want to keep it until it becomes powerful, it comes with a huge drawback. Only getting +2 Cards from Hunter for the most part of a game doesn't look like a good deal. Think of Moat in the absence of Attacks for a cost of $3. But hey, Hunter has a one-shot self-remodeling function. As segura has pointed out, this has the inevitable consequence that you cannot call the discount Hunter anymore your own. On the other hand, it brings you one step closer to the desired stage of emptying piles. You just need to buy a Hunter again at some point.

Then you compared a level 2 Hunter with Smithy and argued that it shouldn't be strictly better. I'd say it actually should. Otherwise, it wouldn't be worth to gain Hunter at any stage of a game (as compared to Smithy). Gubump also mentioned City versus Lab and Lost City, and rightly so. A level 2 City has to be better. So, the real question is not whether a level 2 Hunter should be better (or not) than Smithy, but rather, how much better can it be, in order to be balanced. I have no answer to this question (yet). I have designed Hunter from scratch yesterday and after 6 games in a "I play solitaire for 3 players" mode, I came to the conclusion that it is interesting enough to be presented here, and also interesting enough to get more play testing. Then the future will hopefully show whether it will work in a balanced way.

Another comparison I have made is with the Traveller lines. Like an upgraded Hunter, you don't get a Champion early in the game. In some Kingdoms they will be weak (i.e. they do not come to the stage of being effective), whereas in other games, they can be powerhouses (i.e. they quickly become effective).
« Last Edit: May 01, 2021, 06:01:54 am by gambit05 »
Logged

gambit05

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 584
  • Respect: +495
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest #113: Power Up!
« Reply #66 on: May 01, 2021, 05:29:21 am »
0



Theatre "plays the part" of whatever cards are missing from the supply, be it draw cards, villages, or extra buys. If your kingdom is missing draw, this is a lab for $5, missing +actions, this is a village at $3, lost city for $6, market square for $3, etc. The more the supply lacks, the stronger, and more expensive, this card is. Meaning on boards with draw, actions, and buys, you can buy this as a cantrip for $2, empty the respective piles, and then this card effectively becomes the card you just emptied.

I rolled 50 sample kingdoms to get a quick feel for the number of conditions that one would expect Theatre to have met at the start of the game in any given kingdom. In 22 boards, none of the three conditions were met (there were draw, village, and +buy cards in the supply). In 20, one was met. In 7, two were met. And in only 1 were there no cards with +2 cards, +2 actions, or +1 buy. This means that in a plurality of games, this starts out as a cantrip, with room to get stronger as supplies empty. On average this card costs ~$3.5 at the start of the game.

This card is one taken from my Industrialization expansion, found here, I hope that is acceptable as to the fan card contest rules.

I remember this card from when you presented it in your set expansion thread. I like it more than the last time, but I am not sure whether you've changed something.

How do you count optional, conditional and hidden (covered cards in mixed piles) abilities? I think, I have asked the latter part the last time and wasn't happy with your definition that hidden cards are not in the Supply, or something like that.

Logged

gambit05

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 584
  • Respect: +495
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest #113: Power Up!
« Reply #67 on: May 01, 2021, 09:28:27 am »
0


Quote
Refurbish - $4
Action

Trash a card from your hand. Gain a card costing up to $1 plus $1 per Refurbish in the trash more than it.

A simple Remodel variant that can get quite powerful.

EDIT: Changed the wording. It is still a little bit confusing, but I couldn't find a better way to put it.

I am not an Expert of English language, but for me the following looks less confusing:

"Gain a card costing up to $1 more plus up to $1 more per Refurbish in the trash."

Not sure whether the second "up to" is required.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2021, 09:31:34 am by gambit05 »
Logged

silverspawn

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 5300
  • Shuffle iT Username: sty.silver
  • Respect: +3188
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest #113: Power Up!
« Reply #68 on: May 01, 2021, 09:39:54 am »
0

The second 'up to' is certainly not required. The problem with your phrasing is that you say 'costs up to [...] more plus [...]', i.e., you finish saying 'up to 1$ more' and then modify that later. faust's wording is more correct in that it says 'up to [...] more'. it depends on whether you value awkwardness vs. imprecision. I agree that faust's phrasing is very awkward.

A much better phrasing would be 'up to X more than it, where X is one plus the number of Refurbish in the trash', but sadly dominion cards don't use X phrasings.

gambit05

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 584
  • Respect: +495
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest #113: Power Up!
« Reply #69 on: May 01, 2021, 10:01:59 am »
+1

The second 'up to' is certainly not required. The problem with your phrasing is that you say 'costs up to [...] more plus [...]', i.e., you finish saying 'up to 1$ more' and then modify that later. faust's wording is more correct in that it says 'up to [...] more'. it depends on whether you value awkwardness vs. imprecision. I agree that faust's phrasing is very awkward.

A much better phrasing would be 'up to X more than it, where X is one plus the number of Refurbish in the trash', but sadly dominion cards don't use X phrasings.

Tricky!

Butcher's wording is:

"...costing up to the cost of the trashed card plus $1 per token removed."

So, in analogy, it could be:

"...costing up to $1 more than the cost of the trashed card plus $1 per Refurbish in the trash."

or simplified:

"...costing up to $1 more than it plus $1 per Refurbish in the trash."

Edit: or:

"...costing up to $1 more per Refurbish in the trash plus $1."

Still a bit odd, but I think less awkward than faust's wording.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2021, 10:12:38 am by gambit05 »
Logged

DunnoItAll

  • Thief
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 97
  • Respect: +127
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest #113: Power Up!
« Reply #70 on: May 01, 2021, 11:13:16 am »
+3

Logged

segura

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1529
  • Respect: +1423
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest #113: Power Up!
« Reply #71 on: May 01, 2021, 12:08:34 pm »
0

I love this card but it is significantly stronger in 2P than in 3P.
Logged

fika monster

  • Witch
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 463
  • 27 year old swedish guy. PFP by haps
  • Respect: +459
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest #113: Power Up!
« Reply #72 on: May 01, 2021, 12:59:13 pm »
0

I love this card but it is significantly stronger in 2P than in 3P.

why?
Logged
Swedish guy, Furry hipster otter

Gubump

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1532
  • Shuffle iT Username: Gubump
  • Respect: +1677
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest #113: Power Up!
« Reply #73 on: May 01, 2021, 01:42:39 pm »
+1

I love this card but it is significantly stronger in 2P than in 3P.

why?

Because the Ruins run out faster in 2P, because there's less of them in the pile and Reconstruction depletes the pile at the same rate regardless of player count.

However, I disagree and think it's equally balanced regardless of player count. City and Animal Fair don't do anything to help empty piles, and piles run out faster with higher player counts. Likewise, the fact that there are more players potentially using Reconstruction helps offset the bigger Ruins pile.
Logged
All of my fan card mockups are credited to Shard of Honor and his Dominion Card Image Generator (the new fork).
If you're having font issues with the generator, click this link and click on the button to request temporary access to the demo server that loads the font.

silverspawn

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 5300
  • Shuffle iT Username: sty.silver
  • Respect: +3188
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest #113: Power Up!
« Reply #74 on: May 01, 2021, 01:45:50 pm »
0

honestly there is no reason why you would ever want this card even in 2p, unless there are other cards depleting Ruins. having to play it 5 times before it works is too high a price for the payoff
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6  All
 

Page created in 0.066 seconds with 21 queries.