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Shael

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Witchcraft - A dominion Fan Expansion
« on: April 24, 2021, 09:28:01 am »
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ęManaĽÖ
Few years ago, it will be ignored but now, in the modern era, this only word impress emperors, bring hope to miserable and make the wisest going insane. Your Governors find some on your kingdomís frontier and youíve send riders though your realm in order to take as much as possible. After all, mana belong to the one who take it right?
But, now youíve brought some on your capital and your best scientists try to discover its secret, you have other problems. For a few days, strange things happened in your dominion: peasants heard abnormal noises in the woods, strangers came from everywhere, gathers in clearings and, worst of all, vine start having a strange tasteÖ
And there is this old foolish woman youíve save last day from some marauders that claim to be able to lift entire castles from the groundsÖ with a little bit of time and money for her and her ęfriendsĽ, obviouslyÖ

Welcome to Witchcraft!
Be prepare to discover the greatest secrets in the darkest libraries and the true essence of magic. This expansion have to main theme: Exile and Potion (and sometimes Exiled Potion). There is also some other mini-theme: Interaction, Victory cards and Treasure.

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Disclaimer:
Some of the card arenít perfectly worded; some of my message will not be worded too, if you you want to show me where Iíll wonít take it personally (On the contrary, I would prefer to correct a mistake as soon as possible).
Some of these cards arenít mine and some of them have been changed. The only card Iíve create is those with my pseudo on it. I donít consider myself as the owner of the other cards, including the remaked ones. (You can still made feedback on them, I just clarified that everything here isn't my work)

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Special Rules and clarification.
There isnít any new type of cards, tokens or other special keyword in this expansion but there is still some additional rules when you play with it and I strongly advice you to juge the card with these in mind:

1) If you randomise your kingdom and if it contain only one P-cost cards; replace the last non P-cost card from he kingdom with a random P-cost card.

2) If you play with Potions; add the Floating Island pile with the other base card. There are no other special rules about them. Floating island, like Colonies, isnít a kingdom card but, as opposed to the Colonies, it will not end the game at the end of it pile.

3) If you draw a P-cost Event or Project in a kingdom that donít contain any Potions, replace them with an other landscapes (or replace the last 2 piles in the kingdom with 2 p-cost piles and add the Floating Island).

The Number of cards in the Potion pile donít change but if you play-test this expansion; donít hesitate to return any thought to me; especially concerning this point. In the base game, buying a lot of potion isn't verry useful, but if everyone start to Exile a lot of them, maybe a too small number of them can create a first-player advantage in 5 or 6 player game.

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The cards:

About a common gťnťralisation in the following analysis
In a lot of commentaries Iíll say that potion in a cost ęworthĽ 2.5 coins. Obviously that isnít true but itís an approximation that I made in order to test a cardís balance. Indeed, even if a potion cost beweena  silver and a gold, it donít exactly worth 2.5 coins for few reasons:
- You canít pay potion before your first shuffle.
- You usualy have only one Potion between your first shuffle and second shuffle.
- You need to invest exclusively on potion in order to buy P-cost cards (you can't just pay 2.5 coins).
- You need to have the potion in your hand when you want to buy a P-cost card (the timing is important).
- A card that cost 2 Potions need to collide two 4-cost cards in order to buy it. ( mechanic similar to treasure map)
So Iím conscious about how 2.5 coins is a simplification of the reality but Iíll make it when all the precedent condition are me or if I have previously explained them. (At least Iíll try to do so)

I'll post between 3 and 5 card per day, mainly because it's easyer to proceed like this for me.

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Special Cards



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Floating Island

Posted the: 24 April 2021

Owner: Shael

Floating Island is a base card so itís never on the kingdom but always in the supply when you play with potion (like Colony and Platinum). So, when you play with this, Potion can buy a total of three cards: two on he kingdom and this one. Assuming that potion worth 2.5 (approximation) itís 5vp for 6.5 so itís a ration of approximatively 0.8 vp/coins (province is at 0.75). Obviously itís balanced by the fact that it take more space in your deck for the same amour of point and you need a Potion to get one. Letís hope it will be enough to push potions a little bitÖ

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Kingdom Cards



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Aqua Vitae

Posted the: 24 April 2021

Owner: eHalcyon (changed effect, cost & illustation)

The original version was more expensive but also consider by those who play test it as an overpowered auto-buy so I needed to fix it if I wanted to include it in the set. (It originally give +1$ to all the Potions and Coppers and stack when you play multiple of them)
Now, Itís still a peddler variant but you need to play the cards if you want to gain some coins so a card canít get multiple buff and each Aqua Vitae can only give up to 2 coins. Itís a huge nerf but the cost have been decrease too. It combo with cards that like when treasure are played during action phase like draw-to-X or Tactician for example. Itís not what make you buy a Potion but itís potentially a correct source of coins and a support for a potion-oriented strategy in my opinion.





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Arboretum

Posted the: 24 April 2021

Owner: Shael

A simple vanilla bonus card; itís a peddler+Laboratory but the coin and the action can be save for later. I donít have a lot to say for this one except that is a strong payload for a classic engine deck. If you miss to buy your province at only 1$ you can just buy this to make you deck more flexible an increase your economy.



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Barrels

Posted the: 24 April 2021

Owner: Shael

It's a pure reserve card: You buy it and you Exile some other cards in one of your future turn. Then, you can continue to buy some barrel to use his effect more than once: with two Barrel you may always exile one with an other and each time you do it, you draw a card and you may exile one more card. A pure reserve was something I would try to make since a lot of time and I think it's a good way to start this concept.



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Posted the: 24 April 2021

Owner: Shael

An attack that junk your opponent, especially if they donít use Potion. But, in order to attack them, you have to Exile one of your own Potion so you could continue to buy Potions, or hope that someone will also use Cauldron or just take it for a terminal draw that attack the first times you play it.



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Cipher

Posted the: 25 April 2021

Owner: Kru5h (cost change)

Itís one of my favorite card: I love the idea of pllay a card again. Itís an other terminal draw but it have two special ability: you can sift one card onto your deck or in your discard pile and you may play it one more time. If you have a lot of action or if the 3 card youíve draw are really good and you whant to keep all of them, you can just top deck a card and Cipher again.

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Citadel Have been remove from this set. It will maybe be reintroduce later in an other form.
Posted the: 25 April 2021; removed the 27 April. The owner was: Shael (rip).
Original though: Itís just Lost City; but you opponents get nothing and it have an alternate cost. Itís one of my first P-cost card and I donít have a lot to say about it: itís a good tool for engine, like a lot of P-cost card in the original game.



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Curio

Posted the: 25 April 2021

Owner: Shael

My first idea was an expansion that rely on interaction between player so this is one of the first card in the set. As you see, the set have change but this card not. Itís a trasher that give VP but if your opponent try to attack you, you play if for free and draw 2 card. Because itís a treasure, you can play any number of them during you turn but if you havenít any card to trash in your hand youíll get nothing.



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Decoration

Posted the: 25 April 2021

Owner: Shael

The idea of a Treasure-Command sound fun so I came up with this. There is two cards like this one in the set but the two are played very differently. I think the idea with this card is to buy some in order to Exile exile your Copper and then, manage to buy a least one with an interesting treasure in play. With potion or other treasure in the kingdom, you may even choose which one to play depending of what you need.



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Enchanted Wood

Posted the: 25 April 2021

Owner: McGarnacle (illustration change)

This card that arenít mine and I havenít change anything about the effect. If the idea of making a card that is balanced at nearly any reasonable cost sound interesting but dificult. And the idea of making it cost random amount is even better in my opinion. Iím not a great fan of random (especially pre-random) but here it donít affect the balance of the card. You can play 2 or 3 game in a row with enchanted wood and it different at each game. In therm of strategy, beware to donít buy too much of the because your opponent could just end the pile buy buying / trashing them in order to reduce the importance of your own card.



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Essence

Owner: Shael

Posted the: 26 April 2021
Essence is like a Cantrip that do 3 things: you sift 1 card, you may save an action for later and same with a coin. It just make your deck less swingy; it give you more more control on your cards, your economy and your actions. At least, itís a cantrip, at most, it could be way more interesting.



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Florist

Owner: Fragasnap (cost change)

Posted the: 26 April 2021

Itís not one of my card. I havenít change a lot of thing in this card: I just make it P-cost in order to fit it better in the expansion. When I saw the card I really liked the idea of counting the cards you have in play and gain effect with it. If you play it on the right timing, itís a Peddler and it donít seem to hard to do so in the good engine.



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Forest

Posted the: 26 April 2021

Owner: Shael

The original text was ęWhen you discard it +1 CardĽ. I though it was clear enough but some people thought that you instantly discard the card youíve draw in that code so I have to do this wording, less elegant but clearer. Maybe Iíll use the original wording if everyone agree that card are discarded simultaneously during clean-up but for now, I use the precise one.
In there of strategy; itís a sort of ę cantrip Ľ 3VP in that that, when it take one spot in your hand, it will give you back on your next turn.



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Guilded Sack

Posted the: 26 April 2021

Owner: Shael

Iíve struggle to balance this one but I think itís fine now. Like treasure map; it ask you to make something hard in order to be rewarded. Unlike TM, itís not a one-shot so when you manage to complete the conditions, all of your guilder sack become very strong. Iíve receive some commentary that say itís a maybe little bit weak for now so I really want to playtest it to see his power.



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Hometown

Posted the: 26 April 2021

Owner: nobody

I think nearly everyone already though about this and Iím not an exception. 2$ seem good but Iíve hesitate to put it at 1$ since there isnít a lot of differences between these two cost. I have nothing to say about his balance or potential strategy here; it's just a village.



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Ingredient

Posted the: 27 April 2021

Owner: Shael

Itís between Cauldron and Gilded Sack for the attack part: it exile Treasure and if itís potion it attack. The treasure part however is quite interesting, especially if you get rid of your potion for the attack but you still want to have a potion strategy for your Victory cards, and the +Buy is a good suport to this option.



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Land of Exile

Posted the: 27 April 2021

Owner: Psly (Reaction effect, illustration and cost changed)

This one isnít mine, and like a lot of card Iíve change the image and make it P-cost.
Since the expansion play on Exiling card; I thought this one will fit well here. Originaly, the reaction also worked when you trash a card but it was too op with Province + Trash for benefit so I remove this part; hope it's fair now.



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Magical Land

Posted the: 27 April 2021

Owner: Spheremonk (illustration changed)

Usually; cards that cost 2 potion are too swingy because you don't buy a lot of potions and the oods to colide them are pretty low. However, I think itís quite fine here because you want to buy potions: more you have potion, less itís swingy and more you'll get points. I think the idea of magical land is to make an engine efficient enough to collide two potion nearly every turn in order to buy 2 or 3 Magical land without using the exiling part and then; buy up to 2 more with the highest amount of potion in play to gain a lot of points.
It also combo with some other cards on the expantion and I've tried to make these combo fair: the original game have some verry strong combo and I don't think this is stronger than as some of the most well-known combo in Dominion.



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Medium

Posted the: 27 April 2021

Owner: Alion8me (cost and effect change)

Still not mine even if I've change the cost because the original version was too strong.
Itís a sort of upgraded cantrip: your action is a villager and you draw any card your own. The +1 buy is here because, if you play a medium, your turn will probably be great since you've probably choose a strong card to put in your hand in order to start odr continue a big turn.



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Ore

Posted the: 27 April 2021

Owner: Shael

Itís a silver, in slightly better with a +1Buy and you may ę upgrade Ľ it. I think the ability to turn it in an other treasure is quite nice in this set because there is some interesting special treasure so you can have games where you gain something else than Gold.



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Outrider

Posted the: 28 April 2021

Owner: eHalcyon (illustration changed)

Iíve already talk about the fact that Iíve though about a set that rely on interaction between player. I also say that I'll put cards from other here. This one is both: I really like the bluff part and the number of possibilities on this: itís like a lab but I think that game using this will be really fun.



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Pillager

Posted the: 28 April 2021

Owner: Shael

An other one from the previous set, like a lot of reaction here. Itís a little bit like Coven but it donít strongly junk you at the end; itís more delayed. Moreover, have a ruin in Exile is way better than have a Curse in Exile but play this outside of your turn is terrifing for your opponents



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Replacement

Posted the: 28 April 2021

Owner: Shael

Itís a small pay-off for your engine that you can buy when you have too many actions: you can play once more at any point in the game by spending one action. Itís just to make them more valuable and avoid the turns where you have a lot of actions and nothing to do with them.
Btw, I really don't like the art of this one but it was so hard to find one that fit here taht I finnaly give up



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Ring

Posted the: 28 April 2021

Owner: Shael

A silver that turn a Treasure to your hand into a sort of Spoil. Itís especialy interesting with Copper since it's a treasure that you whant to get rid of. Iíve made it Exile in order to allow you to take back your treasure witch is something nice if you really need the +3$ and you heve no other way to do it. Itís in the expansion theme, so why not increasing the combo possibilities?



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Shelves

Posted the: 28 April 2021

Owner: Will(iam|ow) (cost and illustration change)

Iíve just introduce a potion in it cost, the original idea was well design and there isn't any broken combo so keep it like this is fine.
Itís a sort of terminal Haven but you may set aside multiple card in order to gain them later at the right time but also get rid of your victory card and keep their points.



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Spectral Witch

Posted the: 29 April 2021

Owner: Shael

The attack part ędowngradeĽ your opponentís ruin into Curse. If they havenít one, they take a ruin so you need to be attacked 2 times to be cursed like other wiches do. The effect is also interesting: you turn a card in your discard pile into a gold so if an other player just play spectral witch in a previous turn, you can get rid of one of the Ruin or the Curse he give you. It's obviously stronger in Big Money since you have a greater discard pile but in engine, you can use gainer or force your deck to shufle in order to don't exchange an good card with a Gold.



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SpellBook

Posted the: 29 April 2021

Owner: Shael

Spellbook give you a Potion. Usualy you don't want a lot of these but here is the twist: it also give you victory point if you have a lot of P-cost card. And it cost a Potion so it already help you to take some points. I think it could be interesting: 8 P-cost cards arenít too hard to get if you really want them. If you manage to get your 12th P-cost card, your spellbook start to be incredibly strong.



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Superintendant

Posted the: 29 April 2021

Owner: Shael

The effect really seem like decoration, but here, you usually donít want to Exile your Card. However, play an action from exile give you more possibilities than just play treasure. I think it's fair at $2 since you have to sacrifice your cards in order to increase the power of the Superintendant. The first time you buy it, you just set the cost of an Action you have in play to $2.  I've hesitate to make most expensive version that also throne the card you play but the set don't have a lot of cheap cards, maybe if it useless during the playtest I'll change it.



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Surplus

Posted the: 29 April 2021

Owner: JackTheBard (Cost and type change)

This is an adaptation from someone elseís card.
You choose 3 cards and the worst one (usually) will have it cost decrease by 3. The idea is obviously to choose 3 card you really want and then use the +Buy to take a maximum amount of them. I think itís good way to gain a lot of cards in the early game or in slog strategy. The other thing is that more you play stock in the same turn, more it become weak: if you choose the 3 best cards, one will reach $0 and you have to choose an other card, probably less interesting than the others, because your opponent can always choose the one that cost $0 and then, your Surplus will became useless.



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Watchpost

Posted the: 29 April 2021

Owner: Jonis2004 (effect and illustration changed)

Watchpost is a cantrip that put your cards in exile if you donít want them. At least, you see it so it could be interesting for some cards (like Wishing well) or to give you information for your next play.
The reaction also allow you to put your card wherever you want in your deck so if you gain some interesting cards, you may put them on top of your deck to draw them faster or together in order to make a combo.

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Landscape

Events



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Annexation

Posted the: 30 April 2021

Owner: Shael

Annexation is like delve for Duchy: but it came with a different cost and a reward. If you choose the Coffers option, it only cost 2$P, so itís slightly "cheaper" than Duchy and it also attack. I think itís a good way to use your Potions on mid-game or during Duchy dancing. The Ruin part make it especially valuable at the beginning but the Duchy gaining is only interesting on late-game so it make the power of the event consitant during the game. I think it could actually have a lot of way to use it depending of the board.



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Contest

Posted the: 30 April 2021

Owner: ShadowLancer (litle change on the effect)

Itís not my card.
I think Contest is a great idea since it really feel like a race. Since 12$ is a pretty hight cost to reach, I think there isnít any First player advantage here. The way to use this card is also pretty interesting: you can just ignore it and consider that youíll hit 12$ one time in the game to get a decent prize or you can try to get the 12$ as fast as you can in order to take the best prizes.



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Copy

Posted the: 30 April 2021

Owner: Shael

Assuming that a Potion give 2.5, Copy could be pretty interesting depending of which event is under it: Banquet is stil pretty bad, even if it could combo with Aqua Vitae or Apothecary; Bonefire turn your potion on trasher; Enhance change them to non-terminal Upgrage; Expedition is very good too; Ferry is quite interesting since you can change the tokenís pile more than once per game but even with the +1 Buy it will probably never be played a lot of times; same for Plan but if itís probably weaker here; March could do some verry fun stuff as always and transport makes you gain any Action for 2 Potion.



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Fallow

Posted the: 30 April 2021

Owner: Convolucid (illustration, effect and name change)

I think it have a nice synergy with this Exapansionís theme: Potion strategy could be easily be stuck but if they manage to obtain their decent amount of +Buy (thing that Potion strategy already look for) they can just get rid of the token and block the pile that they donít use.



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Invade

Posted the: 30 April 2021

Owner: S_Smart (illustration change)

This is also an adaptation from someone elseís card.
A cool way to end the game swiftly. If you have at least one Duchy in your hand youíll use it. But do you really want to buy Duchy in order to transform them later? Probably not if the kingdom wonít allow you to draw 2 duchy with 5 coins each turn. A more "normal" way to use it seem to just destroy the Province pile or during Duchy dancing.


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Ordeal

Posted the: 1st May 2021

Owner: Shael

I have a card that use the Prize, why not an other one? Now you can open Estate/duchy during your 5/2! Isnít this amazing? (spoiler alert: probably not without trash-for benefit). However, if your engine manage to draw you 4 victory cards while not hurt too hard how many coin you have this turn or if you have an incredibly bad luck, you can still grab these.



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Renovate

Posted the: 1st May 2021

Owner: Unknown (image and effect change)
 
Renovate let you change your treasure for action card. It cost you 2 coins but you immediately play the action so more the action is strong, more renovate is interesting: Silver can make you gain decent action, Potion is better Gold is probably the most interesting. Since you exchange your treasure for cards that have a similar power level, the event will essentially just trigger actionís effect (and have a very interesting synergy with gold gainer).
Or you can just destroy Coppers (itís not very efficient but if you need itÖ).



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Stargazing

Posted the: 1st May 2021

Owner: Shael

Basically itís ę while you have potion, you may tun your Coins into Buy Ľ. Potions like Buy so potions should like this right?

Project



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Clock Tower

Posted the: 1st may 2021

Owner: Jupaoqqq (Illustration and name change)

About interaction between player, this one is pretty interesting. You can buy it to encourage oner player to donít end a pile or buy it just before one end in order to gain some Coffers for your next turns.



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Collection

Posted the: 1st may 2021

Owner: Jupaoqqq (Illustration and name change)

In a normal game, it will be 17 piles in the kingdom. The number grow a lot with potions, colony, ruin and so onÖ More there is piles, more it could be interesting. Itís  pretty decent source of Coffers and potentially a good way to setup a megaturn, or just a good way to accelerate your deck on the early game.




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Fertilizer

Posted the: 2nd may 2021

Owner: Shael

Fertilizer is an alternate version of Pageant but for Actions. Itís interesting if you have a deck that generate a lot of action and if you want to remodel you village later; or if you just want to smooth your deck when you have one potion left and you donít know what to do with it.



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Fountain of Youth

Posted the: 2nd may 2021

Owner: Shael

Especially efficient in tiny decks, fountain of youth allow you to use your best cards more often but also delay your shuffle. It have nice synergy in combo deck but could also find a place in some Alt-vp strategy. For example, it allow you to play 6 turn without shuffle in a deck of 15 cards. However, the effect could be a problem in early game since itís really hard to find the card youíve just bought.




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Lot

Posted the: 2nd may 2021

Owner: Jupaoqqq (Illustration change)

Exchanging a 5-cost card for a gold isnít very good a a 2-cost action for a Silver is just slightly better. But itís very useful in Big money or if you want to gain a lot of vp. Indeed, all victory card (except Colony) have a treasure that cost exactly $1 more than it, it could also allow you to just exile any card from your hand if there isn ít any treasure that cost exactly $1 more than it. Lot also allow you to just get rid of some cards from your deck each turn.



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Naval Domination

Posted the: 2nd may 2021

Owner: Shael

Iím actually sad that only one card use the Embargo token so I made a card that allow you to put an embargo token on any pile with the condition that you have already buy at least one card about of this pile, itís especially powerful on Victory card because you donít really care about discarding them. However it also protect you against his own effect so you can put a lot of tokens in the Province pile and continue to grab them. The principal downside is probably that other player could just spend $5 and buy to protect themselves from the Domination but make them pay sometimes on a moment where they donít really want to spend money could still be an advantage.

Landmarks



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Crumbling terrain

Posted the: 2nd may 2021

Owner: ThetaSigma12 (Illustration change)

In general; I like cards that push an other way to pay dominion. And landmarks are the type of card-shaped-thing that could do it in the most efficient way since they change the way of playing dominion. Thatís what Crumbling terrain do, sorta. The most efficient strategy in the kingdom have now one main flaw: if you buy to many time the same card; someone with a different strategy could just finish the pile and make you loose a lot of point. Same for the Province; in game using this, theyíll probably worth 5vp instead of 6.



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Lost Manor

Posted the: 3rd may 2021

Owner: Shael
Lost manor was originally design to give an sort of counter-attack effect to duchy: A lot of attack make you discard cards from your hand and sometimes ask for trashing some. With this effect; youíre encourage to buy duchy once the other player start to take hand size attack or if you play with sifter.



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Prophecy

Posted the: 3rd may 2021

Owner: Shael

The main problem i have with this card is it could freeze the game; especially when there isnít any +Buy. In the other hand; it make the game far more strategic because ending a pile could give you so many vp that youíll probably never leave a pile that could easily be empty during his turn. I really want to play test this one because itís probably the most flawed cards of all the expansion (but it could make some very interesting game and deep tactical choice).




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Shared border

Posted the: 3rd may 2021

Owner: Shael

Itís simple: you buy a province, I discard a Duchy to gain 2vp. So itís interesting to buy duchy right? Sure but since we all start with 3 Estate maybe youíll give 2vp to the other player while doing so. And if everyone take all of these card and not the province; Duchy will not be so valuable and there was no real point to buy them. Itís a type of card that I really like because if a strategy s too strong, you can buy a certain card to take advantage of it: if buying duchy is too strong, buy Estate. If buying Estate is too strong (lol), buy Province ectÖ

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Iíve made two other cards for this expansion:
An alternate version of stargazing (because both art were good so Iíll let people choose their favorite). And an sort of Black market event (since black market is a promo concept, it feel normal that ĎExotic findí is in ęotherĽ).



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Special Thanks

Peoples in the dominion's discord for pointing the different problems in my cards and helping me about balance and review.
All the people here that made any kind of return: I can't do anything without feedback.
So please if you saw this, make feedback; I really need them.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2022, 11:24:56 am by Shael »
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§ Post here your favorite fan-cards § The Archive § Witchcraft, a Potion & Exile themed Expansion § Not so Soon §                                          

segura

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Re: Witchcraft - A dominion Fan Expansion
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2021, 10:38:44 am »
+2

Arboretum is too cheap, too expensive and too strong at the same time. This seems weird at first glance, but the card is a Villager-Lab plus Baker. That is a combination of two $5s and then some.
Compare it to Grand Market which is a $5 plus a $4.

But a price of $7 is arguably too high for a pure vanilla card. Sure, there is nothing inherently mechanically wrong with it but if you take a look at Grand Market it becomes obvious. Grand Market without the Buy restriction could be a $7 or $8 or $9 but at $7 it is too cheap for what it does and at $8 it directly competes with Province. People would still buy it for $8 but the twist of the official card leads to far more interesting play (you gotta thin or sift, once you did you can get the GMs relatively cheap at $6).

So yeah, that cards needs a twist of some kind to be worthwhile.

Same with Citadel. It obviously cannot cost $4P because the digging of Golem is stronger than drawing (this is controversial, Golem frequently digs for nothing). It can cost $3 but I have a hunch that it is then slightly better than Alchemist. Again, the card is mechanically totally sound but slightly too strong and missing some kind of twist to make it interesting and different enough from the Lost City and Lab variants that Alchemy features.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2021, 10:41:00 am by segura »
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Shael

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Re: Witchcraft - A dominion Fan Expansion
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2021, 03:13:20 pm »
0

Arboretum is too cheap, too expensive and too strong at the same time. This seems weird at first glance, but the card is a Villager-Lab plus Baker. That is a combination of two $5s and then some.
Compare it to Grand Market which is a $5 plus a $4.

But a price of $7 is arguably too high for a pure vanilla card. Sure, there is nothing inherently mechanically wrong with it but if you take a look at Grand Market it becomes obvious. Grand Market without the Buy restriction could be a $7 or $8 or $9 but at $7 it is too cheap for what it does and at $8 it directly competes with Province. People would still buy it for $8 but the twist of the official card leads to far more interesting play (you gotta thin or sift, once you did you can get the GMs relatively cheap at $6).

So yeah, that cards needs a twist of some kind to be worthwhile.

ok, so, first, thank you for your return. I'll analyse these problems one by one.
So the first issue seem to be about Arboretum. I'll discuss about it with the discord members. If you want to see wich conversation we had you can see it Here (the discution is on two part, it continue a litle bit after Locks). I'll make more return once the discution is finished.

So, the result of the discution was mainly that the card seem to worth it cost. It could be a mistake to buy some in a board with a lack of +Buy since it could give you more than you espect but it will be bought once, rarely 2 on other non-specific games.
Your remark allow me to clear my thought about the card and while I thoug it was an auto-buy that you'll spam in a lot of kingdom, this learn me that it could sometimes be a great mistakes and you just want a small amoun of them just to smoot your deck.
About the idea of add it a litle twist, I think it's not a solution that I could consider for the reason that the card was origianly think to be a pure vanilla card, like Village or Laboratory (there is only 2 card like this in the expantion). Even if I can understand that some people don't consider that minimalism isn't a quality (or sometimes something to avoid). i'll anyway won't change something else than the numbers on it and it seemed to be good.
I'll process the Citadel Later, probably tomorow (it's 23:31 for me now).
« Last Edit: April 25, 2021, 05:31:36 pm by Shael »
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segura

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Re: Witchcraft - A dominion Fan Expansion
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2021, 02:13:46 am »
+1

Mechanical soundness is easy to evaluate, especially with pure vanillas. But you seem to have missed the issue of high cost / high power cards that I tried to point out. There is a reason that all the official $7s+ (except for Platinum) do something non-vanilla-ish.
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Shael

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Re: Witchcraft - A dominion Fan Expansion
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2021, 01:07:48 pm »
0

Mechanical soundness is easy to evaluate, especially with pure vanillas. But you seem to have missed the issue of high cost / high power cards that I tried to point out. There is a reason that all the official $7s+ (except for Platinum) do something non-vanilla-ish.
I think I've understand where we disagree: for me the vanilla bonus are just a "graphic" feature so since ther is no cards that literraly play on "vanilla bonuses" I consider that there is no difference between Arboretum and a 7-cost "Draw two card. Gain a coin token and a villager token", because vanilla bonuses is just a trick to gain card space and make them clearer.
If you consider that there isn't any simple 7-cost cards in the game, KC and Expand are two example of official simple 7-cost cards (with the platinium that you already call before).

However, there is a reason why pure vanilla cards are rare and DVX already talk about it:
Quote
Okay the vanilla card problem is this: vanilla cards limit what other cards you can make, without having two similar cards such that one is too obviously better than the other. [...]
this is why I try to make vanilla cards where there isn't already a lot of cards (in extremly hight/low cost or with P-cost)

Same with Citadel. It obviously cannot cost $4P because the digging of Golem is stronger than drawing (this is controversial, Golem frequently digs for nothing). It can cost $3 but I have a hunch that it is then slightly better than Alchemist. Again, the card is mechanically totally sound but slightly too strong and missing some kind of twist to make it interesting and different enough from the Lost City and Lab variants that Alchemy features.

And this is where we can talk about Citadel:
In fact; my though about Alchemist comparaison is quite clear: 'Alchemist vs Citadel debate' is nearly the same as a theorical 'lost city vs laboartory debate'.
The quesion is: why this debate don't exist?
And the answer seem simple to me: both cards don't do the same thing and none of them are strictly better than the other. We compare a cantrip with a village and it's not relevant. Each cards meet different needs: Alchemist give you a prety stable hansize and you prefer it in a deck with one or two terminal card or when you already bought a village while Citadel give you actions and fit well in a more traditional engine; withe a lot of terminal and village. (even if there is board where both cards could probably fit in the same deck)
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segura

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Re: Witchcraft - A dominion Fan Expansion
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2021, 04:06:24 am »
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And this is where we can talk about Citadel:
In fact; my though about Alchemist comparaison is quite clear: 'Alchemist vs Citadel debate' is nearly the same as a theorical 'lost city vs laboartory debate'.
The quesion is: why this debate don't exist?
And the answer seem simple to me: both cards don't do the same thing and none of them are strictly better than the other.
There is no vanilla Lost City for a very good reason: that card is a powerhouse so it needs some twist. Golem, Lost City and Herald are all variants of that hypothetical vanilla.
You could argue that having a Potion cost is enough of a twist but I disagree. That your card is likely slightly stronger than Alchemist is a secondary issue.
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Shael

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Re: Witchcraft - A dominion Fan Expansion
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2021, 06:11:52 am »
0

And this is where we can talk about Citadel:
In fact; my though about Alchemist comparaison is quite clear: 'Alchemist vs Citadel debate' is nearly the same as a theorical 'lost city vs laboartory debate'.
The quesion is: why this debate don't exist?
And the answer seem simple to me: both cards don't do the same thing and none of them are strictly better than the other.
There is no vanilla Lost City for a very good reason: that card is a powerhouse so it needs some twist. Golem, Lost City and Herald are all variants of that hypothetical vanilla.
You could argue that having a Potion cost is enough of a twist but I disagree. That your card is likely slightly stronger than Alchemist is a secondary issue.
Since I'm not as sure about the power of this card; I've post our discution on discord (here). In subtance; the card was consider as closer than alchemist that I though...
So, for now, I remove it from here; maybe I'll implement it in an other way. I can't promise you that I'll won't put an other vanilla effect on it in order to keep it simplicity but it's maybe hopeless so for now; this card is remove from the set.
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Re: Witchcraft - A dominion Fan Expansion
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2021, 07:04:16 am »
+1

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Shael

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Re: Witchcraft - A dominion Fan Expansion
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2021, 06:11:10 pm »
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Me upon seeing this thread
Ho no... The meme technic! He will gain so much respect! HaaAaAA!
(that was actualy funny)
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Shael

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Re: Witchcraft - A dominion Fan Expansion
« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2021, 05:48:42 am »
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So, now, all the Kingdom cards are done; I've post the expansion on discord and our discution bringed some change on the card:
- Superintendent on-Buy effect will now be an on-gain effect
- Decoration on-Buy effect will now be an on-gain effect (it's the same)
Both of this corrections take place for the following reason:
Quote
General rule of thumb is that you should use on-gain over on-buy unless you have to use on-buy for some reason
Since it don't change the balance of the card to deeply, I have no reason to don't accept it: this rules seem to avoid confusion by standardizing the cards effect.
- Ring cost a coin less but cost one Potion more. The card was far more powerfull than counterfeit and having both at the same cost isn't a good thing.
- Medium was consider as too strong for it cost so it will be raise by one coin. It now cost $3P.
The changes will take place in few minutes. The cards are already corrected, I still need to implement them.
For those who want to see our discution: Click here
« Last Edit: May 02, 2021, 01:29:12 pm by Shael »
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