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Author Topic: Weekly Design Contest #112: Steal the Show  (Read 14371 times)

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Xen3k

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #112: Steal the Show
« Reply #25 on: April 20, 2021, 09:47:16 pm »
0

NOT AN ENTRY



Quote
Bodysnatcher - $4
Night - Attack - Reaction - Fate
+1 Coffers
Take a Boon. Receive it now or at the start of your next turn.
----
After another player plays a non-Duration Action card, you may trash this from your hand, to trash that card. Then, gain to your hand an Action card from the trash.

A one shot Reaction that steals an Action card. Otherwise, it is a slow Night card that gives you a Coffer and a Boon. It may be overpriced, but I was worried about making a card that can steal any cost of Action card too cheap. It will have an interesting effect on boards that have very appealing expensive Action cards as stealing one would be a pretty big swing. I appreciate any feedback or criticism.

Edit: Changed the below line text to not use the exchange wording.

Old Version
« Last Edit: April 20, 2021, 10:48:49 pm by Xen3k »
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mxdata

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #112: Steal the Show
« Reply #26 on: April 20, 2021, 09:58:14 pm »
0



Quote
Bodysnatcher - $4
Night - Attack - Reaction - Fate
+1 Coffers
Take a Boon. Receive it now or at the start of your next turn.
----
After another player plays a non-Duration Action card, you may reveal this from your hand, to trash that card. Then, if it is in the trash, exchange this for it.

A one shot Reaction that steals an Action card. Otherwise, it is a slow Night card that gives you a Coffer and a Boon. It may be overpriced, but I was worried about making a card that can steal any cost of Action card too cheap. It will have an interesting effect on boards that have very appealing expensive Action cards as stealing one would be a pretty big swing. I appreciate any feedback or criticism.

I'm not sure the "exchange" keyword really works in that context, since you're not gaining the card from the Supply, but rather, from the trash, so to get that intended effect, you might need to say "Return this to its pile to gain the trashed card".  You also probably don't need the "if it is in the trash" part.  Even if you tried to use it on a Fortress, the only case where the "if it is in the trash" part would fail, it still wouldn't be able to gain it, since it wouldn't be where it expected to find it (in fact, at that point, it wouldn't even be in play any more, it would be in your opponent's hand again)

Also, I'm not convinced you really need the above-the-line part.  This could work as a pure reaction (well, Reaction - Attack, but only those two types)

However, overall, the card seems pretty good to me
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Xen3k

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #112: Steal the Show
« Reply #27 on: April 20, 2021, 10:08:22 pm »
0



Quote
Bodysnatcher - $4
Night - Attack - Reaction - Fate
+1 Coffers
Take a Boon. Receive it now or at the start of your next turn.
----
After another player plays a non-Duration Action card, you may reveal this from your hand, to trash that card. Then, if it is in the trash, exchange this for it.

A one shot Reaction that steals an Action card. Otherwise, it is a slow Night card that gives you a Coffer and a Boon. It may be overpriced, but I was worried about making a card that can steal any cost of Action card too cheap. It will have an interesting effect on boards that have very appealing expensive Action cards as stealing one would be a pretty big swing. I appreciate any feedback or criticism.

I'm not sure the "exchange" keyword really works in that context, since you're not gaining the card from the Supply, but rather, from the trash, so to get that intended effect, you might need to say "Return this to its pile to gain the trashed card".  You also probably don't need the "if it is in the trash" part.  Even if you tried to use it on a Fortress, the only case where the "if it is in the trash" part would fail, it still wouldn't be able to gain it, since it wouldn't be where it expected to find it (in fact, at that point, it wouldn't even be in play any more, it would be in your opponent's hand again)

Also, I'm not convinced you really need the above-the-line part.  This could work as a pure reaction (well, Reaction - Attack, but only those two types)

However, overall, the card seems pretty good to me

Yeah, I was not too sure about using the "exchange" effect, but the intended results would have the Bodysnatcher in the Trash and the card you reacted to and trashed in your hand. I will try and work on the wording some more.

As for the above the line text, I agree it is not really necessary, but I would like to have the card do something if a player would want to keep it in their deck as a looming threat and not have the optimal play simply to react to the first Action another player plays.
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Gubump

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #112: Steal the Show
« Reply #28 on: April 20, 2021, 10:28:00 pm »
+1



Quote
Bodysnatcher - $4
Night - Attack - Reaction - Fate
+1 Coffers
Take a Boon. Receive it now or at the start of your next turn.
----
After another player plays a non-Duration Action card, you may trash this from your hand, to trash that card. Then, gain to your hand an Action card from the trash.

A one shot Reaction that steals an Action card. Otherwise, it is a slow Night card that gives you a Coffer and a Boon. It may be overpriced, but I was worried about making a card that can steal any cost of Action card too cheap. It will have an interesting effect on boards that have very appealing expensive Action cards as stealing one would be a pretty big swing. I appreciate any feedback or criticism.

Edit: Changed the below line text to not use the exchange wording.

Old Version


This doesn't really work as an Attack type, since cards that care about Attacks care when an Attack is played, and Attack cards attack when played. This attacks when you react with it, not when you play it. It shouldn't have the Attack type for the same reason Ill-Gotten Gains doesn't have the Attack type.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2021, 10:30:03 pm by Gubump »
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Xen3k

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #112: Steal the Show
« Reply #29 on: April 20, 2021, 10:48:00 pm »
+1



Quote
Bodysnatcher - $4
Night - Attack - Reaction - Fate
+1 Coffers
Take a Boon. Receive it now or at the start of your next turn.
----
After another player plays a non-Duration Action card, you may trash this from your hand, to trash that card. Then, gain to your hand an Action card from the trash.

A one shot Reaction that steals an Action card. Otherwise, it is a slow Night card that gives you a Coffer and a Boon. It may be overpriced, but I was worried about making a card that can steal any cost of Action card too cheap. It will have an interesting effect on boards that have very appealing expensive Action cards as stealing one would be a pretty big swing. I appreciate any feedback or criticism.

Edit: Changed the below line text to not use the exchange wording.

Old Version


This doesn't really work as an Attack type, since cards that care about Attacks care when an Attack is played, and Attack cards attack when played. This attacks when you react with it, not when you play it. It shouldn't have the Attack type for the same reason Ill-Gotten Gains doesn't have the Attack type.

Hmm, that is true. I guess my entry is invalid as designed. Very well, I will mark it as such.
Edit: Just noticed that stealing from only one person is also not a valid design, so this goes against that criteria.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2021, 10:49:29 pm by Xen3k »
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mxdata

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #112: Steal the Show
« Reply #30 on: April 20, 2021, 10:50:29 pm »
+1



Quote
Bodysnatcher - $4
Night - Attack - Reaction - Fate
+1 Coffers
Take a Boon. Receive it now or at the start of your next turn.
----
After another player plays a non-Duration Action card, you may trash this from your hand, to trash that card. Then, gain to your hand an Action card from the trash.

A one shot Reaction that steals an Action card. Otherwise, it is a slow Night card that gives you a Coffer and a Boon. It may be overpriced, but I was worried about making a card that can steal any cost of Action card too cheap. It will have an interesting effect on boards that have very appealing expensive Action cards as stealing one would be a pretty big swing. I appreciate any feedback or criticism.

Edit: Changed the below line text to not use the exchange wording.

Old Version


This doesn't really work as an Attack type, since cards that care about Attacks care when an Attack is played, and Attack cards attack when played. This attacks when you react with it, not when you play it. It shouldn't have the Attack type for the same reason Ill-Gotten Gains doesn't have the Attack type.

Oh, that's a good point.  I was thinking of Black Cat, but of course, Black Cat is played as its reaction.  Maybe it could work more like Black Cat then.  Something like:
Quote
+1 Coffers
Take a Boon.  Receive it now or at the start of your next turn.  If it is not your turn, trash this and a non-Duration Action card in play.  Then, gain an Action card to your hand from the trash
-
When another person plays a non-Duration Action card, you may play this from your hand

So, it would still work in a similar manner (except for gaining a Coffers and a Boon with its reaction as well).  The "if it is not your turn" part ensures that the attack part only happens as a reaction
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mxdata

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #112: Steal the Show
« Reply #31 on: April 20, 2021, 10:53:06 pm »
+1

Hmm, that is true. I guess my entry is invalid as designed. Very well, I will mark it as such.
Edit: Just noticed that stealing from only one person is also not a valid design, so this goes against that criteria.

Ah, that's true, it does fail that criterion.  But I think it's still got a lot of potential, just not for this contest
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pubby

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #112: Steal the Show
« Reply #32 on: April 21, 2021, 12:48:47 am »
+1

Does this 2-card max include any non-card entities, like states or markers?
Yep. Please don't design more than 2 components.

Are you sure about the 'has to have the attack type' criterion? You didn't say that you have to steal something valuable, so technically, a card that steals in a non-attack way but attacks in an unrelated manner would pass. This doesn't seem ideal.
I think it's fine.
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Shael

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #112: Steal the Show
« Reply #33 on: April 21, 2021, 02:16:12 am »
+1

Glad that I've already made a card with this type of effect:

Don't hesitate to told me what you think about it.
(Edited)
« Last Edit: April 22, 2021, 04:41:24 pm by Shael »
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mxdata

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #112: Steal the Show
« Reply #34 on: April 21, 2021, 02:44:16 am »
0

Does this 2-card max include any non-card entities, like states or markers?
Yep. Please don't design more than 2 components.

Well, as it turns out that was irrelevant.  I had an idea for a card which would've required both a state and a marker, but it turned out unsatisfactory, and a messy wall of text so I abandoned that idea for the one I've already posted
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mxdata

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #112: Steal the Show
« Reply #35 on: April 21, 2021, 02:54:12 am »
0

Glad that I've already made a card with this type of effect:

maybe it's a litle bit on the weak side; don't hesitate to told me what you think about it.

Would this qualify?  Your opponents are losing cards, but they're also gaining cards, and likewise, you're both gaining and getting rid of cards, so in the end you're just redistributing cards, like Masquerade on steroids

The variable cost is quite an interesting twist
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Aquila

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #112: Steal the Show
« Reply #36 on: April 21, 2021, 03:13:26 am »
+3



Quote
Wrangler - Action Attack, $5 cost.
+2 Cards
Each other player returns a Horse from their hand to its pile (or reveals they can't). Gain 2 Horses if anyone did. Those who did draw a card; those who didn't gain a Curse and a Horse.
Steal Horses, or give them out with Curses to those with none.

Edit: I did a mock-up in the end.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2021, 02:34:10 pm by Aquila »
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Shael

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #112: Steal the Show
« Reply #37 on: April 21, 2021, 03:23:01 am »
+1

Glad that I've already made a card with this type of effect:
...
Don't hesitate to told me what you think about it.

Would this qualify?  Your opponents are losing cards, but they're also gaining cards, and likewise, you're both gaining and getting rid of cards, so in the end you're just redistributing cards, like Masquerade on steroids

The variable cost is quite an interesting twist
I think we can do anything while we follow the rules and give cards to other isn't explicitly forbiden...
More seriously, I understand why you wonder if this really fit here, I personnaly think it's fine but it will probably be interesting to see the opinion of Pubby about this.

For information, I've remake it a litle bit because it was consider as a verry weak card on discord.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2021, 03:38:50 am by Shael »
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Shael

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #112: Steal the Show
« Reply #38 on: April 21, 2021, 03:49:13 am »
0

Quote
Wrangler - Action Attack, $5 cost.
+2 Cards
Each other player returns a Horse from their hand to its pile (or reveals they can't). Gain 2 Horses if anyone did. Those who did draw a card; those who didn't gain a Curse and a Horse.
Steal Horses, or give them out with Curses to those with none.
It's a cool idea; have you any issue about the card generator or you just don't want to make it a card?
I can halp if you want
(I think that don't make it a card probably give you a disadvantage)
« Last Edit: April 21, 2021, 03:50:19 am by Shael »
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silverspawn

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #112: Steal the Show
« Reply #39 on: April 21, 2021, 05:02:19 am »
0

Are you sure about the 'has to have the attack type' criterion? You didn't say that you have to steal something valuable, so technically, a card that steals in a non-attack way but attacks in an unrelated manner would pass. This doesn't seem ideal.
I think it's fine.

Okay, but what's your intention with this rule? My current design is a card that steals without attacking. Are you really encouraging me to come up with a reason to make it an attack to bypass the rule, or would a non-attacking steal be against the spirit of the contest?

fika monster

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #112: Steal the Show
« Reply #40 on: April 21, 2021, 05:42:07 am »
0

new card submission



Edit: Removed the "play the exiled card" thing to make the card read simplier, and i think i clarafied that you exile the trashed cards.

« Last Edit: April 22, 2021, 04:21:27 am by fika monster »
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Timinou

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #112: Steal the Show
« Reply #41 on: April 21, 2021, 07:06:35 am »
0

new card submission



Could playing a Night card during your Action phase have any unintended consequences? 
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Timinou

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #112: Steal the Show
« Reply #42 on: April 21, 2021, 07:18:13 am »
+1

Glad that I've already made a card with this type of effect:

Don't hesitate to told me what you think about it.
(Edited)

Passing two cards can be harsh and it could be particularly brutal if played after a handsize attack.
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mathdude

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #112: Steal the Show
« Reply #43 on: April 21, 2021, 09:19:49 am »
+3

Glad that I've already made a card with this type of effect:

Don't hesitate to told me what you think about it.
(Edited)

With the similarities to Masquerade, using the Pass mechanic, I don't know if this would actually be an Attack card.  I guess where Masquerade (if an Attack) could be almost useless/redundant if people use a Moat, this card does make sense to protect against with a Moat, so maybe it's okay.

Would this qualify?  Your opponents are losing cards, but they're also gaining cards, and likewise, you're both gaining and getting rid of cards, so in the end you're just redistributing cards, like Masquerade on steroids

The variable cost is quite an interesting twist

I know I'm not judging.  But it seems to me that even if your/their cards are all "replaced", there is still the concept of "steal" and "gain" here.

Passing two cards can be harsh and it could be particularly brutal if played after a handsize attack.

I agree.  There probably needs to be a restriction on who it affects - maybe "Each other player with 4 or more cards..."?  You could put it at 5, but Legionary already sets a precedent for a player's cards temporarily going down to 2, so I think 4 is okay.

My own additional comment... I think this card borders on a political attack.  Yes, it's attacking everyone.  But the option to give one person 2 Curses and a different person 2 Coppers does allow for directed attacks.  Any time that cards allow for a non-random effect that can harm/hurt a single player, it specifically deals with the person to the Left (or Right), rather than allowing a choice.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2021, 09:28:45 am by mathdude »
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mathdude

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #112: Steal the Show
« Reply #44 on: April 21, 2021, 09:25:53 am »
0

Quote
Wrangler - Action Attack, $5 cost.
+2 Cards
Each other player returns a Horse from their hand to its pile (or reveals they can't). Gain 2 Horses if anyone did. Those who did draw a card; those who didn't gain a Curse and a Horse.
Steal Horses, or give them out with Curses to those with none.

Based on the "rules":
- Other players must lose something that persists across multiple turns and you must gain something that persists across multiple turns. You do not have to gain the exact thing they lost - Bandit and Pirate Ship are OK, but Jester is not.

I don't think your card meets the criteria that you "must gain something".  If no one returns a Horse, then you do not gain anything.

And if we want to get really technical, the Horse that others lose, and the 2 Horses that you could gain - they aren't actually something that "persists across multiple turns", so like the -$1 coin token or Coffers, I guess Horses would be "discouraged" in this contest.
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gambit05

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #112: Steal the Show
« Reply #45 on: April 21, 2021, 09:45:50 am »
+2


I don't think your card meets the criteria that you "must gain something".  If no one returns a Horse, then you do not gain anything.

If this is true, then Thief wouldn't be eligible either, although it was shown in the original post, just below the title.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2021, 09:55:31 am by gambit05 »
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mathdude

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #112: Steal the Show
« Reply #46 on: April 21, 2021, 10:41:13 am »
+1

new card submission



"Exile one copy of any trashed cards" needs clarification.  Are you Exiling the actual card from the Trash?  Are you Exiling a copy of it from the Supply (if there are any left)?  Is the "one copy" meant to say that if there are 3 Estates you only get 1?  Or is "one copy" meant to help clarify my earlier question, that it's actually a copy from the Supply rather than the actual card from the Trash - in which case, you should probably say "a copy"?

I think +2 Cards, and a forced trash for all other players (which, granted, may sometimes help them, but later in the game may also be quite harmful) with the option to Exile is probably already strong enough for $4.  I don't think it needs to let you play the Exiled card (let alone twice!)  That option for playing the card makes it very swingy and situational.

As with similar attacks, this can get very powerful in multi-player games (e.g. Pirate Ship more likely to succeed, Thief getting more cards), but that's part of the game.  But imagine someone having to choose between trashing a Silver or Duchy near the end of the game?  They either give you $4 this turn, or a swing of 6 points (they trash 3 points, you Exile 3 points).  If you do want to allow playing the Exiled card, I think once is plenty, and even then may require the card to go up to $5 instead of $4.

On another note - with Emulators (such as Command-type), they generally do not allow the play of Duration cards, for tracking issues.  I think that would be wise to include here, if you keep the option to play the Exiled card.  Especially tracking if Duration cards can be played twice would become troublesome if more than one were played (in 3+ player games), as the Throne Room (or variant) is usually set aside with it, but you can't easily do this with multiple cards.

Could playing a Night card during your Action phase have any unintended consequences? 

Aside from the fact that I don't think this card needs to even Play cards that were Exiled, yes, I think there could be some consequences.  Looking through the official Night cards - if we remove the ability to play Duration cards, I think that fixes some of the issues.  Here are my comments on how they are all effected:
  • Guardian - not too bad, but just need to remember that even when in Exile, is it played or just in Exile?
  • Monastery - in most cases, this would serve no purpose when played at this time
  • Changeling - this will usually not allow you to gain a copy of a Treasure anymore by playing it this way, but that's the way it is
  • Ghost Town, Cobbler, Den of Sin, Ghost - the only concern is tracking that these have been played, but remains in Exile instead of in Play
  • Night Watchman - this card may actually be stronger by allowing it to be played with Spoiled Heir
  • Devil's Workshop - this card is definitely stronger, as it will usually allow you to gain a Gold, then later you can still Buy a card this turn (normally, you have to choose not to Buy a card in order to gain the Gold)
  • Exorcist, Bat - functionally, I don't think these card are much different if played now in the Action phase instead of the Night phase, unless Fortress is in the Kingdom
  • Crypt - this card is practically useless when played in your Action phase, unless Storyteller or Black Market are in the Kingdom and even then it's weak
  • Vampire - in general, this probably doesn't affect much, unless you can still draw cards and have a near-empty Deck, then drawing the card you just gained with Vampire can be quite powerful, as well as possibly being able to draw your newly Exchanged Bat and getting it back to a Vampire the same turn
  • Werewolf - would you get a choice between playing the Action-ability or the Night-ability, since you can play either Type with Spoiled Heir, or would it default to only getting the +3 Cards since it is technically the Action phase?
  • Raider - this would force other players to Discard one of the Action cards you have in play, rather than potentially having an option to discard only a Copper if you would have played one of those (alternatively, it also doesn't give you the option of only playing Silver and Gold and hoping people have to discard one of those or a Raider)
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mathdude

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #112: Steal the Show
« Reply #47 on: April 21, 2021, 10:41:37 am »
0


I don't think your card meets the criteria that you "must gain something".  If no one returns a Horse, then you do not gain anything.

If this is true, then Thief wouldn't be eligible either, although it was shown in the original post, just below the title.

Fair enough!
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segura

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #112: Steal the Show
« Reply #48 on: April 21, 2021, 12:00:47 pm »
0

Glad that I've already made a card with this type of effect:

Don't hesitate to told me what you think about it.
(Edited)
I don’t get the point of the variable cost. Is this really stronger in 3P?
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anordinaryman

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #112: Steal the Show
« Reply #49 on: April 21, 2021, 02:00:34 pm »
+2

EDIT: This is NO LONGER my submission. Posting my new submission as a new post.



Quote
Sack | Action - Attack | $4
Each other player reveals the top 2 cards of their deck, trashes one of them costing from $3 to $6, and discards the rest. If a card was trashed this way, trash this and choose a card trashed by this to gain a horse per $1 it costs.

Trashing attacks need to be self-limiting in my opinion, so it self trashes like a Knight. When it pops it gives out a bunch of Horses (at least 4, since Sack counts as one of the cards trashed by this. Sometimes you'll hit a Gold and get to gain 6 horses.) Sometimes it misses though and nothing happens. This isn't super strong, which is how I like my trashing attacks. Compare this to Sir Martin, Sir Vander, Pillage, and Stampede and the price point looks right to me.

Open to feedback.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2021, 02:21:21 pm by anordinaryman »
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