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Author Topic: Weekly Design Contest #111: Chasing Enlightenment  (Read 4920 times)

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silverspawn

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Weekly Design Contest #111: Chasing Enlightenment
« on: April 11, 2021, 07:35:57 am »
+7

WDC #111: Chasing Enlightenment

For this contest, design a card that cares about a token with a negative effect. Here is an example:



To be more precise:

- Your submission can use this token or any other token. In principle, you can also use existing tokens like Debt or Coffers (but see rules below).
- It has to be a token you can have more than one copy of. It can't be "start with one, do this thing once to get rid of it".
- The card needs to care about the token (edit: or not), and having it must be negative. Swashbuckler wouldn't qualify because there, having Coffers leads to a good thing.
- The effect can be binary or quantiative. E.g., "If you have any tokens, discard 3 cards" or "discard a card per token" are both fine.
- Having players start with a fixed number of tokens is one way to do it, but not required. Any way of obtaining the tokens is fine. There doesn't even need to be a way to get rid of them.
- Submissions can be single cards, WELP, multiple cards like travelers or cards with not-in-the-supply components, or even heirlooms for existing cards or Prizes. Go nuts.

If you want to use pain tokens, here is the symbol with URL https://i.ibb.co/k1Q390C/pain-small.png. You can insert them into the card generator by pasting the URL into the Custom Icon feature and writing in the card text. If you use a different token, it doesn't have to have a symbol; you can just say "XYZ token".

If you edit a submission, edit the original post.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2021, 02:43:17 pm by silverspawn »
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mandioca15

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #111: Chasing Enlightenment
« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2021, 10:02:33 am »
+1

Jetty (Action, $4)

+2 Cards
+2 Actions

Return an Embargo token.
------
When you gain this, take 3 Embargo tokens. You can't buy cards while you have any Embargo tokens.
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Shael

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #111: Chasing Enlightenment
« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2021, 11:12:23 am »
+1

Whut? This shouldn't be in the category Weekly Contest: Fan Card Mechanics ?
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silverspawn

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #111: Chasing Enlightenment
« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2021, 11:16:06 am »
+4

Whut? This shouldn't be in the category Weekly Contest: Fan Card Mechanics ?

I figured it was alright after no-one complained about Snow.  You also don't need a new mechanic; you can use Debt or Coffers.

If I've misjudged the situation and people have a big problem with this theme, I can change it.
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mxdata

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #111: Chasing Enlightenment
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2021, 11:49:23 am »
+4

Whut? This shouldn't be in the category Weekly Contest: Fan Card Mechanics ?

I figured it was alright after no-one complained about Snow.  You also don't need a new mechanic; you can use Debt or Coffers.

If I've misjudged the situation and people have a big problem with this theme, I can change it.

Rule #2 in the original challenge thread says:
Quote
2. When not restricted by the challenge, custom card types and mechanics are allowed, provided that they are explained in the same post as the entry.

So it would seem to me to fit the rules
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Shael

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #111: Chasing Enlightenment
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2021, 11:51:44 am »
+1


I figured it was alright after no-one complained about Snow.  You also don't need a new mechanic; you can use Debt or Coffers.

If I've misjudged the situation and people have a big problem with this theme, I can change it.
I'm not one of the moderator of this topic so I can't ask you to change it; especialy since a participation was already post here. I advice you to check with the organisator if you have any doubt but the "snow" agument seem fine. Maybe the Weekly Contest: Fan Card Mechanics didn't exist at these times and that could explain why it have been accepted.
If I was there when Snow I would have said the same thing.
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mathdude

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #111: Chasing Enlightenment
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2021, 01:33:43 pm »
0

Since the Fan Card Mechanics contest thread has started, these ideas seem to fit better there, rather than here (which has been more about using official mechanics, though not exclusively, as seen by Snow).  But even before that thread started, there was often Fan Mechanics discussed (and sometimes contests about them, from what I've seen).

There's nothing wrong with doing it here.  It just has a bit of overlap, with 2 contests going on at the same time that both deal with Fan Mechanics.  No harm done.

It would be simple enough to frame this contest mainly using existing mechanics - state that it is a contest where you "use debt, or some other new token that you can have multiples, with a negative effect".  The creator here just wanted the emphasis on the ability to make/use a new mechanic, leaving debt as the alternative, secondary option, rather than the primary.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2021, 01:35:40 pm by mathdude »
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emtzalex

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #111: Chasing Enlightenment
« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2021, 02:10:05 pm »
+1

Whut? This shouldn't be in the category Weekly Contest: Fan Card Mechanics ?

But even before that thread started, there was often Fan Mechanics discussed (and sometimes contests about them, from what I've seen).

Indeed. And in fact, the Weekly Contest: Fan Card Mechanics was inspired by a (fairly recent) Weekly Design Contest:

What would people think of a new weekly contest specifically dedicated to fan card mechanics? (credit to spineflue for starting this "atlas")

Inspired by weekly design content #90*, Steal Ideas!, but in this case every entry would have to use the fan card mechanic chosen by that week's judge.

One sort of unofficial point (at least as I conceive of it) of the Fan Card Mechanic contest is that it's a way to get others to help you develop a mechanic you really like. This was suggested by scolapasta in the original post:

* and the fact that I was mildly disappointed to see no one expand on my Worshippers mechanic...

IMO, if silverspawn had asked us to use their pain tokens in design our submission, that would have looked like the FCM contest. Instead, the pain tokens are just an illustration of one way to meet this week's rule.
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emtzalex

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #111: Chasing Enlightenment
« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2021, 02:33:53 pm »
+1

WDC #111: Chasing Enlightenment
- Your submission can use this token or any other token. In principle, you can also use existing tokens like Debt or Coffers (but see rules below) . . .
- The card needs to care about the token, and having it must be negative. Swashbuckler wouldn't qualify because there, having Coffers leads to a good thing.

I do have a question about the Contest rules. To clarify, is the issue with Swashbuckler:
(a) that the tokens in question (Coffers) are good (i.e. you want to have them because they provide you a benefit);
(b) that the way in which Swashbuckler cares about the tokens is to reward having them; or
(c) both?

Put another way, would a card that cares about Coffers, but in a way that treats having them as negative, qualify? For example, would Pastry Chef (not my submission, apologies for the desert/dessert pun) be acceptable?

NOT MY SUBMISSION:
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silverspawn

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #111: Chasing Enlightenment
« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2021, 03:09:13 pm »
0

I do have a question about the Contest rules. To clarify, is the issue with Swashbuckler:
(a) that the tokens in question (Coffers) are good (i.e. you want to have them because they provide you a benefit);
(b) that the way in which Swashbuckler cares about the tokens is to reward having them; or
(c) both?

(b).

ut another way, would a card that cares about Coffers, but in a way that treats having them as negative, qualify?

Yup.
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scolapasta

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #111: Chasing Enlightenment
« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2021, 03:25:28 pm »
0

Whut? This shouldn't be in the category Weekly Contest: Fan Card Mechanics ?

But even before that thread started, there was often Fan Mechanics discussed (and sometimes contests about them, from what I've seen).

Indeed. And in fact, the Weekly Contest: Fan Card Mechanics was inspired by a (fairly recent) Weekly Design Contest:

What would people think of a new weekly contest specifically dedicated to fan card mechanics? (credit to spineflue for starting this "atlas")

Inspired by weekly design content #90*, Steal Ideas!, but in this case every entry would have to use the fan card mechanic chosen by that week's judge.

One sort of unofficial point (at least as I conceive of it) of the Fan Card Mechanic contest is that it's a way to get others to help you develop a mechanic you really like. This was suggested by scolapasta in the original post:

* and the fact that I was mildly disappointed to see no one expand on my Worshippers mechanic...

IMO, if silverspawn had asked us to use their pain tokens in design our submission, that would have looked like the FCM contest. Instead, the pain tokens are just an illustration of one way to meet this week's rule.

As the person who started the Fan Card Mechanics thread, I will shamelessly (or shamefully?) admit that one of my motivations was to skirt the system and get to choose a theme / judge a contest as I wasn't winning the official weekly contest any time soon.

I also agree with those that say that silverspawn's idea is not specific to a mechanic, but a more general concept that (often) will use fan mechanics. The Pastry Chef example clearly illustrates that. So it seems 100% valid here.
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The Alchemist

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Curses! Tokened again!
« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2021, 11:29:16 pm »
+2

Incantation:


The negative token I have decided to go with is the Curse token, represented by a raven icon. Each Curse token is worth -1 VP. Like VP tokens, they are added to a pool owned by a player and are unlimited. Unlike VP tokens, you can lose as well as gain them, but you cannot go below zero.
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faust

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #111: Chasing Enlightenment
« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2021, 02:31:47 am »
+1

Introducing Blight!

Quote
Corruption - $3
Event

Once per turn: If you have Blight, put one Blight you have on a Victory supply pile. Otherwise, take 2 Blight from here.
-
Setup: Put 8 Blight here.

Blight tokens make the land go bad! (you might recognize the symbol from another game) Victory cards are worth 1 VP less per Blight token on their pile, to a minimum of 0. On the flip side, all Victory cards you have are worth 1 VP less per Blight you have, to a minimum of 0.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2021, 04:35:15 am by faust »
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #111: Chasing Enlightenment
« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2021, 04:22:56 am »
+2

Fickle Festival
Action - $5
+$2
+2 Villagers
This turn, at the start of Clean Up, if you have 4 or more Villagers, or spent a Villager this turn and have Actions remaining, the player to your left gains this
« Last Edit: April 12, 2021, 04:38:17 am by NoMoreFun »
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faust

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #111: Chasing Enlightenment
« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2021, 04:32:52 am »
+2

Fickle Festival
Action/Victory - $5
+$2
+2 Villagers
This turn, at the start of Clean Up, if you have 4 or more Villagers, or spent a Villager this turn and have Actions remaining, the player to your left gains this
How is this a Victory card?
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #111: Chasing Enlightenment
« Reply #15 on: April 12, 2021, 04:39:06 am »
+1

Fickle Festival
Action/Victory - $5
+$2
+2 Villagers
This turn, at the start of Clean Up, if you have 4 or more Villagers, or spent a Villager this turn and have Actions remaining, the player to your left gains this
How is this a Victory card?

I typed it up at first as a card that gave you negative VP for Villagers, then decided against (as you can arbitrarily spend villagers)
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fika monster

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #111: Chasing Enlightenment
« Reply #16 on: April 12, 2021, 01:59:23 pm »
0

Question for silverspawn: does a card like this count for the contest? my expectation is that the answer is no, since this gives a bad effect when you gain it, that goes away after two turns, rather than having a bad effect for having a token when played

Not my submission for now


(raven symbol is a token that, at the end of your turn, you reduce by one (but not less then 0), and you choose between gaining a curse, two coppers, or revealing your hand to the player on the left, and they discard a card from it.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2021, 02:05:19 pm by fika monster »
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silverspawn

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #111: Chasing Enlightenment
« Reply #17 on: April 12, 2021, 02:42:29 pm »
+1

Question for silverspawn: does a card like this count for the contest? my expectation is that the answer is no, since this gives a bad effect when you gain it, that goes away after two turns, rather than having a bad effect for having a token when played

Your reading of the rules is correct. However, there have been several submissions so far that don't meet the 'the card needs to care about the token' part of the rules. I couldn't bring myself to disqualify the first entry, and once I allowed that, I had to be consistent and allow it for everyone. So now, the rules are basically 'the card has to interact with a negative token', which your card does.

So yes, it's now allowed. And I won't subtract any points from cards like this since it's entirely on me that I didn't say anything after the first submission. Any negative token effect is good to go.
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mxdata

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #111: Chasing Enlightenment
« Reply #18 on: April 12, 2021, 02:57:26 pm »
0



My entry is an heirloom which is connected to a split pile (the rule I'll adopt if you have more than 7 Heirlooms is that you'll use all the Heirlooms, no Coppers, and 3 Estates or Shelters - thus you could start with more than 10 cards in that situation, yes it would make for weird openings, but having that many Heirlooms is going to make your opening weird anyways).  The heirloom is a kind of combination of Cursed Gold and Pouch.  When you discard it from play, you receive one curse token (represented by the skull icon) per card bought.  A curse token is simply -1VP at the end of the game.  So, it's similar to Cursed Gold in that it costs you Victory Points, although unlike Cursed Gold it doesn't junk your deck, since it's a token rather than a card.  On the other hand, you can easily gain multiple tokens, and cannot trash tokens (although you can lose them).  You can also avoid gaining the tokens if you buy an Event or Project, or use it to pay off debt.  You can also avoid the tokens if you can avoid discarding it from play, such as with Crypt or Herbalist.  This went through several different versions.  My first version used debt tokens, but that felt too boring.  Then I experimented with various other kinds of tokens, but I couldn't settle on one that was balanced and seemed like it would be fun to play.  In the end, I went with the old curse token idea.  Note that it *is* possible to get curse tokens for cards you bought before you even played this, if you bought cards during your Action phase with Black Market, or had two Buy phases with Villa or Cavalry.  So, you'll want to be quite careful playing this.  The idea behind the name is inspired by Ill-Gotten Gains and Cursed Gold, the idea being that you've acquired this money in some underhanded manner, and you'll end up paying for that

The first card in the split pile is Banker, an Action - Night - Duration card.  If played during your Action phase, it's similar in effect to Counterfeit, with the obvious exception of requiring an Action.  Early in the game, you'll probably use it like a Moneylender variant most of the time - trashing a Copper for a net +$3 +1 Buy.  However, if you play it during your Night phase (or during your Buy phase, e.g. with Scepter or Capitalism), then it functions like a Crypt variant, only setting aside one card, but playing that card immediately at the start of your turn.  This has an obvious synergy with Fraudulent Profits, since it allows you to avoid discarding it on the first play.  However, since you can't avoid playing it on the second turn, unless you have a second Banker, or something like a Crypt, you'll still end up getting the Curse token(s), you'll just have gotten to play it on two turns and only got tokens on the second.  It would make a strong combo with Capitalism, and it would also work great with Quarry if you have any Workshop variants.  Idol would work nicely too, since a lot of boons work better when received in your Action phase than your Buy phase.  It cannot trash Fraudulent Profits, or any other Heirloom.  Initially, I had it as just "a Treasure card other than Fraudulent Profits", for the same reason that Pooka has "other than Cursed Gold", namely, that I didn't want it to be able to trash its own Heirloom.  But then I thought "Why not make it any Heirloom?"  It saved space on the card, and also makes the Heirloom type useful.  The difference, of course, would only be practical in games with at least one other Heirloom.  This one went through a lot of changes.  At one point it was a Duration peddler variant with a below-the-line effect "At the start of clean-up, set aside a Treasure card you have in play (on this) and play it at the start of your next turn".  The below-the-line effect is almost the same as the current version's Night/Buy phase play, but the above-the-line part felt uninspiring.  That version was not part of a split pile.  At another point, I had it as an Action-Duration card with an above-the-line part that was the Action phase part of the current card, and a below-the-line effect that was the same as the Duration peddler version.  But then I realized that was way overpowered - letting you do both effects on the same turn is too strong.  And the easiest way to ensure that you could only do one or the other was to do the Werewolf thing and have it be playable in either the Night or the Action phase, doing different things in each phase

Coin Collector is the second card in the split pile (as an aside, I'm not sure if the Heirloom keyword should be on both cards of the split pile or only the first, there's no split piles that have any kind of set-up instructions on them, so there's no precedent.  Both cards are associated with the Heirloom, but on the other hand, you could argue you only need the set-up instruction on the card you actually see during set-up).  It is designed to synergize with Banker, letting you retrieve cards it trashed - making Banker far more powerful since you can use Banker on Golds or Platina without losing them.  The wording on this one changed quite a bit.  I wanted to make sure that you couldn't play a Treasure card three times in one turn with the Banker-Coin Collector combo, which would be easy to do with strong draw if it were simply gained to your discard pile when you play it.  Initially, I made it a Duration card with "set it aside (on this).  At the start of your next turn, play it", but then I thought that might make it too strong, especially if multiple Coin Collectors were played.  So, then I decided on this wording.  As per the FAQ for Faithful Hound, "end of turn" means after you draw your cards for your next turn, which means that the gained card can potentially miss the shuffle.  As a final benefit, Coin Collector allows you to get rid of curse tokens at the cost of minor self-junking in the form of Copper-gaining.  However, unless your opponent managed to get all the Bankers, you're assured of a way to trash those Coppers, making the junking only temporary.  I went back and forth on the cost, and I'm still not sure if this is a good cost.  On the one hand, the only other official card that can gain any Treasure from the trash (or, indeed, can gain any Treasure without self-trashing or as part of a Traveller line) is Treasurer, which, on the one hand, is stronger in gaining the Treasure directly to hand, plus giving you +$3.  On the other hand, Treasurer's gaining is weaker in that, in most games with it, you'll end up with Coppers being the only Treasures in the trash, whereas Coin Collector has Banker to ensure that good Treasures can end up in the trash.  There's also Soothsayer which costs $5 and can gain Golds, plus cursing other players (albeit with the slight amelioration of letting them draw an extra card), whereas this one can certainly gain Gold if a Gold has been trashed (or even a Platinum) but doesn't curse.  So, I think $4 is probably a fair price over all

EDIT: Withdrawing this submission

New entry:


Quote
Disappearing Village
Action
$3
+1 Card
+3 Actions
-1 Action per Snow (you can't go below 0 Actions)
Take 1 Snow, then you may discard any number of Action cards, revealed, to lose 1 Snow per card discarded
The Snow token (the name inspired by Snowy Village), represented with a snowflake icon, reduces the number of Actions given to you by Disappearing Village, almost like an anti-Villager, but only affecting this card (although if this were part of an expansion, there'd probably be at least a few other cards that used it).  The first time you play this, you get +3 Actions, but if you let your Snow tokens build up, it becomes increasingly less useful, netting negative Actions if you have 4 or more Snow tokens (but, as with Poor House and coins, the total Action count can never go negative).  You can get rid of your Snow tokens by discarding Action cards.  The name is a reference to how its village effect gradually disappears if you don't do anything about the tokens
« Last Edit: April 13, 2021, 12:13:25 am by mxdata »
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Mahowrath

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #111: Chasing Enlightenment
« Reply #19 on: April 12, 2021, 05:16:42 pm »
+3

Accepting your initial challenge:



Quote
Chainsmith - $4
Action - Duration - Reaction

+3 Cards
+1

At the start of your next turn, you may discard any number of cards, to remove that many
-
At the start of your turn, if you have no , you may play this from your hand

Duration draw; weaker than Smithy if you choose to ignore the .
When played by reaction, is a nice non-terminal duration draw/sifter. Playing more than one a turn this way is tricky, but in fact possible, if you are able to interleave the reactions with resolving last turn's Chainsmiths (hence the name).
« Last Edit: April 12, 2021, 05:18:25 pm by Mahowrath »
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emtzalex

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #111: Chasing Enlightenment
« Reply #20 on: April 12, 2021, 05:26:23 pm »
+2



My entry is an heirloom which is connected to a split pile . . . The first card in the split pile is Banker . . . Coin Collector is the second card in the split pile . . .  I went back and forth on the cost . . . I think $4 is probably a fair price over all.

The official rules for split piles say that you "always put the cheaper card on top," during set up. You could, of course, vary from those rules, but you might want to think carefully about doing so. There is a reason they exist. By the time 5 $5 cards have been purchased (if that ever happens), players will rarely be at a point in the game where buying $4 Action cards makes sense. 
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The Alchemist

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #111: Chasing Enlightenment
« Reply #21 on: April 12, 2021, 05:38:00 pm »
0

If it's within the rules for me to ask SilverSpawn directly, I actually had two different versions of my submission I was going back and forth on, and was wondering if I could ask which you prefered?



These two cards are not meant to coexist, just two different implementations of my Curse token idea that takes them in very different directions.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #111: Chasing Enlightenment
« Reply #22 on: April 12, 2021, 05:41:21 pm »
+1


Quote
Coronation $5 Action
+2 Cards
+1 Buy
You may take +1 Heir; If you do, play an Action card from your hand twice, then trash this.

What are Heirs? Each Heir you have reduces the number of points of your highest scoring victory card by 1. So in Colony games, colonies are worth 9vp if you have one heir; If you run the Castles pile, the King's Castle will be worth 1 less. If it's a regular province game, and you get eight heirs, those provinces are worth 0vp.

I'm picturing a coin token mat for this.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2021, 05:45:23 pm by spineflu »
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silverspawn

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #111: Chasing Enlightenment
« Reply #23 on: April 12, 2021, 06:07:52 pm »
+1

I actually had two different versions of my submission I was going back and forth on, and was wondering if I could ask which you prefered?

Generally, I think it's not a good idea if I answer questions like these since information about what I like provides a unique advantage in the contest. However, in this case, I'd say the second one is against the rules as the token is positive. I mean, it is still a Curse token, but it's not hard to always end the game with 0, so they're almost always going to be something you want to have. In the worst case, you'd have to get an Estate to your hand. So for this contest, if it's between the two, you have to choose the first one.

(Also

SilverSpawn

not a big deal but please don't. The name is lowercase on purpose and the double uppercase version is particularly yuck.)
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mxdata

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #111: Chasing Enlightenment
« Reply #24 on: April 12, 2021, 06:50:47 pm »
0



My entry is an heirloom which is connected to a split pile . . . The first card in the split pile is Banker . . . Coin Collector is the second card in the split pile . . .  I went back and forth on the cost . . . I think $4 is probably a fair price over all.

The official rules for split piles say that you "always put the cheaper card on top," during set up. You could, of course, vary from those rules, but you might want to think carefully about doing so. There is a reason they exist. By the time 5 $5 cards have been purchased (if that ever happens), players will rarely be at a point in the game where buying $4 Action cards makes sense.

I didn't realize that was an official rule, but that is a good point.  Originally, the second one was more expensive, but then I weakened it, and lowered the price, and didn't think about the fact that that now made the top one more expensive.  I'll give this some more thought and revise my submission
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