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Author Topic: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play  (Read 1555 times)

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JW

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #25 on: April 04, 2021, 10:22:14 am »
+2

Alchemical Factory
$6
Action - Duration
At the start of your turn, you may trash a card from your hand. If you do, you may gain a differently-named card to your hand, costing up to $1 more than it.
(This stays in play)

Trashing coppers is a potential use, but probably not the best one. Overpowered with Fortress, but that’s true of many trash-for-benefit cards and this is costly enough that you won’t get the super fast pile-outs seen with Upgrade-Fortress. The "differently-named card" wording prevents Province--> Province like with Transmogrify.

Update: changed "different" to "differently-named." Thanks, mxdata!
« Last Edit: April 04, 2021, 03:50:40 pm by JW »
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faust

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #26 on: April 04, 2021, 11:18:59 am »
0

Magnate (Action-Duration, $5)

At the start of each of your turns, if you have no Debt tokens, +2 Cards, +1 Buy and take two Debt tokens.
(This remains in play.)

A perma-Wharf that only functions if you can keep on top of your Debt.
Is it intentional that you only ever want to play one of these? Because it seems in that case it would make more sense as a Project.

Would it work better if it always gave you the draw, buy and Debt tokens, regardless of if you have Debt?
Maybe? I think I like the balance with it only giving draw if you have no Debt, so it's not too bonkers with no-buy engines. But it would be good if they could still be stacked. Not sure there's a good wording for it. A somewhat awkward solution would be

"At the start of each of your turns, if you have no Debt tokens, +2 Cards, +1 Buy and put two Debt tokens on this. At the start of your Buy phase, take the Debt from here."
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

mxdata

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #27 on: April 04, 2021, 11:19:55 am »
+1

Alchemical Factory
$6
Action - Duration
At the start of your turn, you may trash a card from your hand. If you do, you may gain a different card to your hand, costing up to $1 more than it.
(This stays in play)

Trashing coppers is a potential use, but probably not the best one. Overpowered with Fortress, but that’s true of many trash-for-benefit cards and this is costly enough that you won’t get the super fast pile-outs seen with Upgrade-Fortress. The "different card" wording prevents Province--> Province like with Transmogrify.

"Differently-named" is the usual wording for that
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #28 on: April 04, 2021, 02:31:14 pm »
+3


Quote
Salt Mine • $5 • Action - Duration
At the start of your turn, trash the top card of your deck. You may gain a copy of the trashed card.

(This stays in play)

Salt the Earth or just general deck-cleaning. Get a bunch to do a 3pile.

EDIT: dropped the "to your hand" portion
« Last Edit: April 05, 2021, 12:27:52 pm by spineflu »
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faust

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #29 on: April 04, 2021, 04:10:59 pm »
+3


Quote
Salt Mine • $5 • Action - Duration
At the start of your turn, trash the top card of your deck. You may gain a copy of the trashed card to your hand.

(This stays in play)

Salt the Earth or just general deck-cleaning. Get a bunch to do a 3pile.
Isn't this for the most part better than Hireling? Granted, it sucks when piles start to run out but in the early game it's a Hireling+ for $5.
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

fika monster

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #30 on: April 04, 2021, 04:43:43 pm »
0

This card is no longer my submission: there's a bit too many problems with it, and its not that exciting



Haven and Sacrafice had a baby, and it became this!

Edit: Wording changes per Shaels and Annie administrator suggestion


Edit 2: Wording changes to make it clearer.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2021, 09:29:53 am by fika monster »
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mathdude

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #31 on: April 04, 2021, 05:39:55 pm »
0


It's a Haven/Save effect each turn, written in a slightly non-conventional way because all the alternative wordings sucked.

Just to clarify, this is effectively to put an unused Action or Treasure card from your hand into your next hand?

So, do you still draw 5 cards at the end of turn and end up with 6? Or do you draw until you have 5?
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grep

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #32 on: April 04, 2021, 05:51:03 pm »
+3



Haven and Sacrafice had a baby, and it became this!

Edit: Wording changes per Shaels and Annie administrator suggestion

"If that card" - which card, the one set under Chamber or the one taken out? Regardless, for accountability that card should be revealed to the other players.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2021, 05:55:01 pm by grep »
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pubby

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #33 on: April 04, 2021, 06:59:06 pm »
+1

Just to clarify, this is effectively to put an unused Action or Treasure card from your hand into your next hand?

So, do you still draw 5 cards at the end of turn and end up with 6? Or do you draw until you have 5?
Yeah you'd have 6 cards the next turn. You can also use it to keep victory cards out of your deck.
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Xen3k

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #34 on: April 04, 2021, 07:22:07 pm »
+1



Quote
Kinsman - $4
Action - Duration
At the start of each of your turns for the rest of the game, you may discard a card for +1 Card. If you discard a copy of this, choose one: +1 Action; or +1 Coffers; or gain a Horse.
(This stays in play)

A permanent sifter that is better if you have additional copies to discard to it. Not sure about the price, but $4 seems reasonable.
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mxdata

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #35 on: April 04, 2021, 07:52:24 pm »
0

Just to clarify, this is effectively to put an unused Action or Treasure card from your hand into your next hand?

So, do you still draw 5 cards at the end of turn and end up with 6? Or do you draw until you have 5?
Yeah you'd have 6 cards the next turn. You can also use it to keep victory cards out of your deck.
Would also work really well with cards that you want to line up with other cards, like Treasure Map with another Treasure Map
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mxdata

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #36 on: April 04, 2021, 07:55:38 pm »
+1



Quote
Kinsman - $4
Action - Duration
At the start of each of your turns for the rest of the game, you may discard a card for +1 Card. If you discard a copy of this, choose one: +1 Action; or +1 Coffers; or gain a Horse.
(This stays in play)

A permanent sifter that is better if you have additional copies to discard to it. Not sure about the price, but $4 seems reasonable.

Sounds like a fair price to me.  It would be useful to have, especially once you start greening, but not too terribly strong.  Though, I think it would usually be more advantageous to play extra copies rather than discarding extra copies to it
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Xen3k

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #37 on: April 04, 2021, 08:09:23 pm »
0



Quote
Kinsman - $4
Action - Duration
At the start of each of your turns for the rest of the game, you may discard a card for +1 Card. If you discard a copy of this, choose one: +1 Action; or +1 Coffers; or gain a Horse.
(This stays in play)

A permanent sifter that is better if you have additional copies to discard to it. Not sure about the price, but $4 seems reasonable.

Sounds like a fair price to me.  It would be useful to have, especially once you start greening, but not too terribly strong.  Though, I think it would usually be more advantageous to play extra copies rather than discarding extra copies to it

That is a fair criticism. I was unsure of the rewards for discarding a Kinsman were good enough. Do you think a buff is warranted? Would  +2 Actions, +2 Coffers, or +2 Horses be too good?
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spineflu

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #38 on: April 04, 2021, 08:12:23 pm »
0


Quote
Salt Mine • $5 • Action - Duration
At the start of your turn, trash the top card of your deck. You may gain a copy of the trashed card to your hand.

(This stays in play)

Salt the Earth or just general deck-cleaning. Get a bunch to do a 3pile.
Isn't this for the most part better than Hireling? Granted, it sucks when piles start to run out but in the early game it's a Hireling+ for $5.

Not when it hits green (and inadvertently thins the provinces). Or when it hits junk. It's also different in Necromancer games. Think I should drop the "to your hand" part?

The Alchemist

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #39 on: April 04, 2021, 11:19:46 pm »
+2


Quote
Salt Mine • $5 • Action - Duration
At the start of your turn, trash the top card of your deck. You may gain a copy of the trashed card to your hand.

(This stays in play)

Salt the Earth or just general deck-cleaning. Get a bunch to do a 3pile.

Isn't this for the most part better than Hireling? Granted, it sucks when piles start to run out but in the early game it's a Hireling+ for $5.

Not when it hits green (and inadvertently thins the provinces). Or when it hits junk. It's also different in Necromancer games. Think I should drop the "to your hand" part?

Yes I do believe this is (almost) strictly better than hireling. It's virtually: "+1 Card and either trash the drawn card or a copy of the drawn card from the supply". So, excluding times when the pile for the drawn card is empty, it's always a hireling+. This needs to be more than 6 if it gains to hand. I'd say drop the to your hand part.
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anordinaryman

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #40 on: April 05, 2021, 12:08:18 am »
+8


Quote
Voyage | Night - Duration | $4
If this is the first time you played a Voyage this turn, and the previous turn wasn't yours, then take an extra turn after this one. At the start of each of your turns for the rest of the game: gain a Copper.
(This stays in play.)
-
This is gained to your hand (instead of your discard pile)

Each one you gain ends up junking your deck more and more. Maybe you can handle a copper a turn, especially towards the end of the game. Not too many decks can handle gaining 5 coppers each turn.

Trash in play essentially a multi-use seize the day and I'm okay with that.


I updated the card. The previous version did not prevent playing multiple in a turn to get more than 2 turns in a row. Here is the original version:


Quote

Voyage | Night - Duration | $4
If the previous turn wasn't yours, then take an extra turn after this one. At the start of each of your turns for the rest of the game: gain a Copper.
(This stays in play.)
-
This is gained to your hand (instead of your discard pile)

« Last Edit: April 05, 2021, 01:42:37 pm by anordinaryman »
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mxdata

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #41 on: April 05, 2021, 01:27:45 am »
+2


Quote
Voyage | Night - Duration | $4
If the previous turn wasn't yours, then take an extra turn after this one. At the start of each of your turns for the rest of the game: gain a Copper.
(This stays in play.)
-
This is gained to your hand (instead of your discard pile)

Each one you gain ends up junking your deck more and more. Maybe you can handle a copper a turn, especially towards the end of the game. Not too many decks can handle gaining 5 coppers each turn.

Trash in play essentially a multi-use seize the day and I'm okay with that.

I'd probably never buy this in a kingdom without good trashing.  With good trashing, on the other hand, it could be worth it.  Watchtower would make a good combo with this.  It would definitely be an interesting card to play with!  A nice challenge to decide if it's worth it in a given kingdom

EDIT: I just noticed it's gained to hand.  So it would definitely be worthwhile near the end, especially if you don't think you're likely to hit a reshuffle before the game ends
« Last Edit: April 05, 2021, 01:31:00 am by mxdata »
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pubby

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #42 on: April 05, 2021, 01:59:48 am »
+3


Sweet design..

This is a pedantic point, but you likely want "Once per turn" on it. Otherwise you can activate multiple on the same turn, and take several turns after.
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Timinou

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #43 on: April 05, 2021, 03:22:26 am »
+1


Quote
Voyage | Night - Duration | $4
If the previous turn wasn't yours, then take an extra turn after this one. At the start of each of your turns for the rest of the game: gain a Copper.
(This stays in play.)
-
This is gained to your hand (instead of your discard pile)

Each one you gain ends up junking your deck more and more. Maybe you can handle a copper a turn, especially towards the end of the game. Not too many decks can handle gaining 5 coppers each turn.

Trash in play essentially a multi-use seize the day and I'm okay with that.

I feel like it could cost more.  You probably won’t be buying this early in the game anyway.  Late in the game, the junking probably isn’t too detrimental and this would almost be like Seize the Day without the once per game limitation.
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The Alchemist

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Orrery
« Reply #44 on: April 05, 2021, 04:33:52 am »
0

Orrery:



Orrery lets you move cards from your discard to hand to deck, opposite the normal flow, the rotation between the 3 parts of your deck mimicking the celestial dance. Similar to Star Chart, lets you set up your hands with a bit of reverse-sifting, and can clear a bit of junk from your remaining deck. Two or more in play and you can effectively choose any card from your entire deck you want in your hand to start your turn with. Cards must be done in the order written, so starting a turn without any discard results in needing to topdeck a card, if you only have one Orrery in play. With 6 in play any hand of 5 you wish can be yours.

Discarding from your deck works just like discarding from hand, you may look through your deck and pick a card from it to put onto the discard pile, but you cannot change the order of the cards in any way. They are simply put back in the order they were. "Put a card from your deck to your discard pile" was a wording I was seriously considering, but I feel "discard a card from your deck" is understandable enough, and it is shorter after all. After all Orreries (and any other start of turn cards) have been resolved, then you shuffle the deck once (since back-to-back shuffles instructed by multiple cards is effectively the same as just one shuffle). With the errata, you are no longer required to look through your discard to pick a card from it, but I decided just to leave it in for more clarity.

Let me know what you think!
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segura

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #45 on: April 05, 2021, 04:42:12 am »
0



This is an old one.

It uses the Season mechanic to scale well. First I wanted to do this as an Event but you gotta track the Debt anyway. Furthermore an Event or a hand-gaining Night or a "play this when you gain it" (an idea I briefly considered) are too automatic in the endgame, you simply go for them if you cannot hit $8 in one of the latest turns in order to reach it next turn.
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Holger

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #46 on: April 05, 2021, 06:16:50 am »
+1


Quote
Voyage | Night - Duration | $4
If the previous turn wasn't yours, then take an extra turn after this one. At the start of each of your turns for the rest of the game: gain a Copper.
(This stays in play.)
-
This is gained to your hand (instead of your discard pile)

Each one you gain ends up junking your deck more and more. Maybe you can handle a copper a turn, especially towards the end of the game. Not too many decks can handle gaining 5 coppers each turn.

Trash in play essentially a multi-use seize the day and I'm okay with that.

Voyage/Gardens would likely be a very strong combo, sounds fun... :D

BTW, is Voyage discarded when the Copper pile is empty?
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mathdude

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #47 on: April 05, 2021, 08:18:46 am »
+1



This is an old one.

It uses the Season mechanic to scale well. First I wanted to do this as an Event but you gotta track the Debt anyway. Furthermore an Event or a hand-gaining Night or a "play this when you gain it" (an idea I briefly considered) are too automatic in the endgame, you simply go for them if you cannot hit $8 in one of the latest turns in order to reach it next turn.

I know it wasn't very clear in the original contest post, but...

Interaction and fun: The card should look like it will be fun to play with.  It should interact well with existing cards, mechanics, and strategies (use only official mechanics - not additional fan mechanics).  It should be fun to play with 2 players or with 4 (or even 6).

Please feel free to submit a different entry.  This one will not be considered.
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mathdude

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #48 on: April 05, 2021, 08:43:14 am »
0

My Submission:


 
Notes

Goods is a non-Supply card that comes in a pile of 30 copies.

Goods interacts with cards that have the Vendor type, like Fruiterer. This connection allows designing different Vendor cards and justifies the large number of Goods (if that would ever be printed).

A player’s Fruiterer can gain Goods for free as long as they haven’t any Goods in play yet.

If a player has more than 4 Goods in play, their Fruiterer can only receive each of the 4 options once per play. The sole purpose of excess Goods is to have more of them in play than the other players, which gives them a Horse, if that is the case.


“Patience is bitter, but its fruit is sweet.” - Aristotle
Goods
– Action – Duration

Quote

When you play a Vendor,
 choose a different option for
          each Goods you have in play:         
 +1 Card; +1 Action;
+1 Coffers; +1 Buy.

(This stays in play. This is
not in the Supply.)


Fruiterer
– Action - Vendor

Quote

+1 Action
You may gain a Goods.
If you did and you have
 Goods in play, take .

             If you have more Goods             
 in play than any other
player, gain a Horse.


Since seeing this post 2 days ago, I have wavered back and forth a few times as to whether this uses existing mechanics or fan mechanics.  It parallels Looters (which I would call a specific new mechanic because it has a separate Type with new, specific rules that were added), but also parallels cards which use Horses (a 30-card non-supply pile, and these cards would not be a new mechanic because no extra rules are needed - if a card says it can gain a Horse, then Horses are put on the table, just like other non-supply piles like Spirits in Nocturne, or Hermit/Madman interaction).

Even typing this out, I have flipped back and forth a few times.  I started writing this thinking I would disqualify the entry since it parallels Looters too closely (having the new Type).  But then I realized you could just drop the "Vendor" Type, and have Goods work just like "Horses".  But then the Goods card specifically requires the new Type... I'm so confused about where I land on this!

Let's put it this way... as currently designed, I will say the submission is not valid.  But for the purposes of this contest, if you consider that Goods is not a generic non-supply pile that can interact with many other (not yet designed) Vendor cards, but instead consider it is specifically tied with Fruiterer, you would make the following changes - remove the Vendor type from Fruiterer, and change Goods to say "when you play a Fruiterer" (instead of "play a Vendor"), then it can be acceptable.  Fair enough?
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gambit05

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #49 on: April 05, 2021, 10:15:25 am »
0

Since seeing this post 2 days ago, I have wavered back and forth a few times as to whether this uses existing mechanics or fan mechanics.  It parallels Looters (which I would call a specific new mechanic because it has a separate Type with new, specific rules that were added), but also parallels cards which use Horses (a 30-card non-supply pile, and these cards would not be a new mechanic because no extra rules are needed - if a card says it can gain a Horse, then Horses are put on the table, just like other non-supply piles like Spirits in Nocturne, or Hermit/Madman interaction).

Even typing this out, I have flipped back and forth a few times.  I started writing this thinking I would disqualify the entry since it parallels Looters too closely (having the new Type).  But then I realized you could just drop the "Vendor" Type, and have Goods work just like "Horses".  But then the Goods card specifically requires the new Type... I'm so confused about where I land on this!

Let's put it this way... as currently designed, I will say the submission is not valid.  But for the purposes of this contest, if you consider that Goods is not a generic non-supply pile that can interact with many other (not yet designed) Vendor cards, but instead consider it is specifically tied with Fruiterer, you would make the following changes - remove the Vendor type from Fruiterer, and change Goods to say "when you play a Fruiterer" (instead of "play a Vendor"), then it can be acceptable.  Fair enough?

I started exactly with what you suggested. However, after that I thought about the pile size of Goods and concluded that it has to be larger for 4+ player games. Then I thought it looks like bad design to have a huge pile just for a single Kingdom card. So, I introduced the Vendor type to keep it open for use of other Kingdom cards (that I'll likely never design).

Since the cards do not seem to excite many people anyway, I retract them from submission.

Fair enough!
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