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Author Topic: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play  (Read 1554 times)

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mathdude

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Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« on: April 03, 2021, 12:34:12 am »
+3

Weekly Design Contest #110: (This stays in play)

Design a card that stays in "play".  It should stay in play for the remainder of the game, and have a continued active benefit/reason while doing so.

The two main official examples are: Hireling and Champion, as they explicitly state "(This stays in play)".  Hireling gives you an extra card to start each turn.  Champion is a very powerful card (unlimited actions and permanent protection from attacks) but is hard to get as it's at the end of a Traveler line.

Another borderline example, which I would accept, is Prince.  It uses the "set aside" mechanic, which generally would not be acceptable for this contest (such as Crypt which is only set aside for a limited time and Island which gives no active, ongoing benefit but just passively takes it and another card out of your deck).  Prince does not stay in "play", but is effectively doing the same thing as the cards above - giving you an active, ongoing benefit at the start of each turn for the rest of the game (assuming you remember to do it every turn!)

Reserve cards also don't count.  They are effectively "set aside" too, and the only official card intended to stay there is Distant Lands, which is similar to Island.  Other Reserve cards don't intend to stay on the Tavern Mat for the rest of the game, since they offer a benefit once they are called.

I expect most (if not all) cards will be Duration cards to achieve this contest's goal (unless you can come up with a clever, well-designed card like Prince).  If you want your card to be the final one in a Traveler line (like Champion), I recommend you post the full line of cards - only the final one will be judged, but its interactions with the rest of the line will likely be important to understanding its design.

Criteria for judging your cards

Interaction and fun: The card should look like it will be fun to play with.  It should interact well with existing cards, mechanics, and strategies (use only official mechanics - not additional fan mechanics).  It should be fun to play with 2 players or with 4 (or even 6).

Balance: I will not be playtesting submitted cards, but will use my judgement as to how balanced they seem.  The price and functioning of the card should not have any obvious problems.  Minor text corrections being required (to be in line with official wording) is not a problem, and there can be edge cases which break your card or the game (that's normal with new/unique designs), but it should make sense to play with the vast majority of official cards.

Text length: Cards should be elegant and easy to understand.  They do not need to be "simple", but they do need to be clear and not require lengthy additional rules to explain how they work.  (In this case, Prince would not score as well as something like Hireling).

Submission and deadline

The newest/submitted version of your card should be clearly indicated in your original submission post (with any earlier submissions clearly indicated as no longer current). When you update your submission, please also make a new post stating that you are updating your submission (this is helpful for the next 6 days, but it is mandatory within the final 24 hours of the contest).

I intend to give a 24 hours warning around noon on Friday, April 9th (and will post current submissions at that time), with the contest closing at noon on Saturday, April 10th.
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pubby

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2021, 02:22:17 am »
+10


It's a Haven/Save effect each turn, written in a slightly non-conventional way because all the alternative wordings sucked.
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Aquila

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2021, 06:24:57 am »
+3

Quote
Lithograph - Action Duration, $5 cost.
Gain 3 Silvers.
At the start of each of your turns for the rest of the game, you may trash a Silver from your hand for +2 Cards, +1 Buy and + $2.
(This stays in play.)
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mandioca15

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2021, 08:15:51 am »
+4

Magnate (Action-Duration, $5)

At the start of each of your turns, if you have no Debt tokens, +2 Cards, +1 Buy and take two Debt tokens.
(This remains in play.)


A perma-Wharf that only functions if you can keep on top of your Debt.

(See reply #82 for latest version of this card).
« Last Edit: April 07, 2021, 02:40:27 pm by mandioca15 »
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faust

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2021, 08:28:15 am »
+3

Magnate (Action-Duration, $5)

At the start of each of your turns, if you have no Debt tokens, +2 Cards, +1 Buy and take two Debt tokens.
(This remains in play.)

A perma-Wharf that only functions if you can keep on top of your Debt.
Is it intentional that you only ever want to play one of these? Because it seems in that case it would make more sense as a Project.
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Shael

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2021, 10:14:54 am »
+2

I really like the idea of this Weekly Contest.
This is my submission:

I don't know if "courtyard of miracle" is an international reference so if nobody have it and if it's problematic, I could change the name.
Don't hesitate to notice me if you have a problem with the cost, I think $4 is too strong but I've hesitate to put it at $6 (or, why not, ad debs cost)
After consultation of the discord's #variant; the card have been changed. It now cost $4 and give +1Action when you play it in order to avoid colision.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2021, 01:13:48 pm by Shael »
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mxdata

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2021, 11:29:51 am »
0

I really like the idea of this Weekly Contest.
This is my submission:

I don't know if "courtyard of miracle" is an international reference so if nobody have it and if it's problematic, I could change the name.
Don't hesitate to notice me if you have a problem with the cost, I think $4 is too strong but I've hesitate to put it at $6 (or, why not, ad debs cost)

I don't know the reference, but I don't think that's an issue, it's a  cool-sounding name anyways.  My only concern is that in most games I'm not sure why you'd ever *want* to buy this.  I can certainly think of some card combos that would benefit from this, but it seems like most of the time this would just end up self-junking.  You usually want to get rid of Coppers, not gain them
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Shael

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2021, 11:45:35 am »
0

I really like the idea of this Weekly Contest.
This is my submission:

I don't know if "courtyard of miracle" is an international reference so if nobody have it and if it's problematic, I could change the name.
Don't hesitate to notice me if you have a problem with the cost, I think $4 is too strong but I've hesitate to put it at $6 (or, why not, ad debs cost)

I don't know the reference, but I don't think that's an issue, it's a  cool-sounding name anyways.  My only concern is that in most games I'm not sure why you'd ever *want* to buy this.  I can certainly think of some card combos that would benefit from this, but it seems like most of the time this would just end up self-junking.  You usually want to get rid of Coppers, not gain them
This is one of the return I had on discord; we notice a synergy with counting house, gardens, Duke, guildhall, maybe tower,
all cards that give things for trashing treasure (moneylender/ Spice merchant) or force you to trash (trade route; junk dealer; rats; Cathedral)
The main probelm was here:
Tha card bring you to a deck density of 1 so you have around $6 per turn (where you can esaly buy more of them).
With at least 3 of these, it's a Province each turn. When we saw cards like Duke or Garden that are played because they make value with junk; it was hard to say if it's a bad plan or not...

Btw, the card's name could sound good but don't have the reference reduce the card's flavour to nearly nothing: Why something called a "courtyard of miracle" give you Copper?
« Last Edit: April 03, 2021, 11:49:51 am by Shael »
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grep

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2021, 11:55:48 am »
+5




Harlequin
$5 - Action - Duration
At start of each of your turns for the rest of the game:
You may discard your hand for +4 Cards.
(This stays in play)

Endless mulligan, to counter bad luck and hand reducing attacks, or just to collect the on discard effects such as Tunnel. Second Harlequin is not as powerful as the first one, but still has some value.
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mxdata

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2021, 01:04:53 pm »
+1


Quote
Archbishop
Action-Duration
$6
At the start of each of your turns for the rest of the game, if you have not trashed a card that turn, you may trash a card from your hand.
-
While this is in play, when you trash a card, +1VP
(This stays in play)
EDIT: Modified this, see below for new version
Allows you to trash for benefit at the start of each of your turns.  The benefit doesn't scale, though, it's a fixed 1 VP per Archbishop in play.  Also, even if you have multiple Archbishops in play, you can still only trash one card.  I put that restriction on there because otherwise it would be broken with multiple Archbishops.  It would be especially broken with Changeling, since Changeling would make it really easy to gain copies once you bought the first one.  Without that restriction you could end up with a situation where you have 5 Archbishops in play and the most sensible strategy would be to simply trash your starting hand every turn for +25 VP (5 cards * 5 VP each) until you've trashed everything, then spend the rest of the game buying a Copper each turn to trash on the next for +5VP!  Or worse, if you had extra buys, you could buy multiple Coppers.  Imagine a "golden deck" consisting of 2 Markets and 3 Coppers.  Trash the 3 Coppers for 15 VP, then play the two Markets, buy 3 Coppers and repeat the next turn.  Truly awful!  I had also considered instead putting "other than with this" on the while-in-play clause, but then that would restrict the trashing for benefit to kingdoms that have at least one other trasher.  So, this way you can still get +1VP per Archbishop in play by trashing a card at the start of your turn even if there are no other trashers.  But you can't go crazy and trash a bunch of cards each turn without some other trashers

The cost is something I kept going back and forth on.  It's basically an improved Cathedral - the trashing is optional so you're never forced to trash a good card, and you get VP out of it, although you do have to wait for the card to get shuffled and drawn.  Does it seem balanced at $6?



Okay, new version.  Now it still gives you +1VP for trashing, but only for the first card trashed each turn, and only for cards costing $2 or more (so no trashing Coppers or Curses for benefit).  You can still trash multiple cards if you have multiple Archbishops in play, but you only benefit from one trashed card.  I also specified "each turn" so that if you trash on another person's turn, such as via a trashing attack, or with their play of Bishop, you still get the VP.  But, if you trash multiple cards on a single turn, you don't get the VP for each one.  So, it no longer goes crazy with things like Fortress.  You can certainly trash Fortress at the start of your turn, and if you have multiple Archbishops in play, you could get several VP, but it's limited, you can't keep trashing the same Fortress over and over (well, I mean, you *could*, but you wouldn't get any benefit after the first one)
« Last Edit: April 03, 2021, 05:43:01 pm by mxdata »
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mxdata

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2021, 01:14:56 pm »
0

I really like the idea of this Weekly Contest.
This is my submission:

I don't know if "courtyard of miracle" is an international reference so if nobody have it and if it's problematic, I could change the name.
Don't hesitate to notice me if you have a problem with the cost, I think $4 is too strong but I've hesitate to put it at $6 (or, why not, ad debs cost)

I don't know the reference, but I don't think that's an issue, it's a  cool-sounding name anyways.  My only concern is that in most games I'm not sure why you'd ever *want* to buy this.  I can certainly think of some card combos that would benefit from this, but it seems like most of the time this would just end up self-junking.  You usually want to get rid of Coppers, not gain them
This is one of the return I had on discord; we notice a synergy with counting house, gardens, Duke, guildhall, maybe tower,
all cards that give things for trashing treasure (moneylender/ Spice merchant) or force you to trash (trade route; junk dealer; rats; Cathedral)
The main probelm was here:
Tha card bring you to a deck density of 1 so you have around $6 per turn (where you can esaly buy more of them).
With at least 3 of these, it's a Province each turn. When we saw cards like Duke or Garden that are played because they make value with junk; it was hard to say if it's a bad plan or not...

Btw, the card's name could sound good but don't have the reference reduce the card's flavour to nearly nothing: Why something called a "courtyard of miracle" give you Copper?

Hmm ... that's a good point.  Each one in play effectively reduces the amount of money you need to get to buy a Province by 1, so the self-junking wouldn't be so bad.  And there are some specific combos that would be really strong with it.  Monastery + Tombs + this would be really good, and just Monastery in general can deal with the junking if you're going for a more engine-based strategy.  So I'll admit I underestimated it
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Shael

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2021, 01:21:12 pm »
+1


Quote
Archbishop
Action-Duration
$6
At the start of each of your turns for the rest of the game, if you have not trashed a card that turn, you may trash a card from your hand.
-
While this is in play, when you trash a card, +1VP
(This stays in play)
Allows you to trash for benefit at the start of each of your turns.  The benefit doesn't scale, though, it's a fixed 1 VP per Archbishop in play.  Also, even if you have multiple Archbishops in play, you can still only trash one card.  I put that restriction on there because otherwise it would be broken with multiple Archbishops.  It would be especially broken with Changeling, since Changeling would make it really easy to gain copies once you bought the first one.  Without that restriction you could end up with a situation where you have 5 Archbishops in play and the most sensible strategy would be to simply trash your starting hand every turn for +25 VP (5 cards * 5 VP each) until you've trashed everything, then spend the rest of the game buying a Copper each turn to trash on the next for +5VP!  Or worse, if you had extra buys, you could buy multiple Coppers.  Imagine a "golden deck" consisting of 2 Markets and 3 Coppers.  Trash the 3 Coppers for 15 VP, then play the two Markets, buy 3 Coppers and repeat the next turn.  Truly awful!  I had also considered instead putting "other than with this" on the while-in-play clause, but then that would restrict the trashing for benefit to kingdoms that have at least one other trasher.  So, this way you can still get +1VP per Archbishop in play by trashing a card at the start of your turn even if there are no other trashers.  But you can't go crazy and trash a bunch of cards each turn without some other trashers

The cost is something I kept going back and forth on.  It's basically an improved Cathedral - the trashing is optional so you're never forced to trash a good card, and you get VP out of it, although you do have to wait for the card to get shuffled and drawn.  Does it seem balanced at $6?
I'll probably say it seem too strong at $6 because trashing and +1vp each turn seem stronger than hierling's +1 cards.
A way to balance could be: make the vp conditional
for example: "when you trash a card that cost $3 or more: +1vp" the 3 is juts here for the example.  This change can also allow you to get rid of the "one trash per turn" condition if the amount of require $ is hight enough.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2021, 01:22:14 pm by Shael »
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faust

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #12 on: April 03, 2021, 01:30:26 pm »
+4


Quote
Mummer's Farce
Night/Duration - $5

+5 Villagers
+5 Coffers
At the start of each of your turns for the rest of the game, lose a Villager or Coffers.
(This stays in play.)
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

mxdata

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #13 on: April 03, 2021, 01:30:37 pm »
0


Quote
Archbishop
Action-Duration
$6
At the start of each of your turns for the rest of the game, if you have not trashed a card that turn, you may trash a card from your hand.
-
While this is in play, when you trash a card, +1VP
(This stays in play)
Allows you to trash for benefit at the start of each of your turns.  The benefit doesn't scale, though, it's a fixed 1 VP per Archbishop in play.  Also, even if you have multiple Archbishops in play, you can still only trash one card.  I put that restriction on there because otherwise it would be broken with multiple Archbishops.  It would be especially broken with Changeling, since Changeling would make it really easy to gain copies once you bought the first one.  Without that restriction you could end up with a situation where you have 5 Archbishops in play and the most sensible strategy would be to simply trash your starting hand every turn for +25 VP (5 cards * 5 VP each) until you've trashed everything, then spend the rest of the game buying a Copper each turn to trash on the next for +5VP!  Or worse, if you had extra buys, you could buy multiple Coppers.  Imagine a "golden deck" consisting of 2 Markets and 3 Coppers.  Trash the 3 Coppers for 15 VP, then play the two Markets, buy 3 Coppers and repeat the next turn.  Truly awful!  I had also considered instead putting "other than with this" on the while-in-play clause, but then that would restrict the trashing for benefit to kingdoms that have at least one other trasher.  So, this way you can still get +1VP per Archbishop in play by trashing a card at the start of your turn even if there are no other trashers.  But you can't go crazy and trash a bunch of cards each turn without some other trashers

The cost is something I kept going back and forth on.  It's basically an improved Cathedral - the trashing is optional so you're never forced to trash a good card, and you get VP out of it, although you do have to wait for the card to get shuffled and drawn.  Does it seem balanced at $6?
I'll probably say it seem too strong at $6 because trashing and +1vp each turn seem stronger than hierling's +1 cards.
A way to balance could be: make the vp conditional
for example: "when you trash a card that cost $3 or more: +1vp" the 3 is juts here for the example.  This change can also allow you to get rid of the "one trash per turn" condition if the amount of require $ is hight enough.

Oh, that's a good suggestion!  So you can still use it to get rid of junk like Coppers and Estates (and Curses if there's any Cursers in the game), but you wouldn't be getting the VP for those.  Fortress would still make a really strong combo even with that restriction, but that's one specific card combination
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silverspawn

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #14 on: April 03, 2021, 01:56:24 pm »
0

Mummer's Farce
Night/Duration - $5

+5 Villagers
+5 Coffers
At the start of each of your turns for the rest of the game, lose a Villager or Coffers.
(This stays in play.)

Very cool.

... but it should be 'Village or Coffer' (singular), right?
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faust

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #15 on: April 03, 2021, 02:07:31 pm »
+2

Mummer's Farce
Night/Duration - $5

+5 Villagers
+5 Coffers
At the start of each of your turns for the rest of the game, lose a Villager or Coffers.
(This stays in play.)

Very cool.

... but it should be 'Village or Coffer' (singular), right?
Well, Candelstick Maker says +1 Coffers. It's only used in plural form from what I know, similar to Ruins.
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Shael

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #16 on: April 03, 2021, 02:26:45 pm »
0

Mummer's Farce
Night/Duration - $5

+5 Villagers
+5 Coffers
At the start of each of your turns for the rest of the game, lose a Villager or Coffers.
(This stays in play.)

Very cool.

... but it should be 'Village or Coffer' (singular), right?
It should be "one Villager or one Coffers"
Coffers is never singular (ex on candlestick maker). oops; already spoted
« Last Edit: April 03, 2021, 02:27:52 pm by Shael »
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pubby

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #17 on: April 03, 2021, 02:39:34 pm »
0


Perhaps it could only work on victory cards, or something to that extent. That would make it different from Cathedral, would reduce the amount of VP it could gain, and would make it less swingy by means of being cheaper.
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gambit05

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #18 on: April 03, 2021, 02:43:27 pm »
+2

Retracted from Submission

My Submission:


 
Notes

Goods is a non-Supply card that comes in a pile of 30 copies.

Goods interacts with cards that have the Vendor type, like Fruiterer. This connection allows designing different Vendor cards and justifies the large number of Goods (if that would ever be printed).

A player’s Fruiterer can gain Goods for free as long as they haven’t any Goods in play yet.

If a player has more than 4 Goods in play, their Fruiterer can only receive each of the 4 options once per play. The sole purpose of excess Goods is to have more of them in play than the other players, which gives them a Horse, if that is the case.

“Patience is bitter, but its fruit is sweet.” - Aristotle

"Sometimes, fruits are bitter." - gambit05
Goods
– Action – Duration

Quote

When you play a Vendor,
 choose a different option for
          each Goods you have in play:         
 +1 Card; +1 Action;
+1 Coffers; +1 Buy.

(This stays in play. This is
not in the Supply.)


Fruiterer
– Action - Vendor

Quote

+1 Action
You may gain a Goods.
If you did and you have
 Goods in play, take .

             If you have more Goods             
 in play than any other
player, gain a Horse.


« Last Edit: April 05, 2021, 10:21:27 am by gambit05 »
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Shael

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #19 on: April 03, 2021, 04:31:13 pm »
0

Do you know if we can participate more than once per Contest?
Because this one is verry inspiring...
« Last Edit: April 03, 2021, 04:32:26 pm by Shael »
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #20 on: April 03, 2021, 05:25:29 pm »
0

Do you know if we can participate more than once per Contest?
Because this one is verry inspiring...

Only one entry per contest.  But if you have other ideas, you can always make a separate post in the variants and fan cards forum
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mxdata

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #21 on: April 03, 2021, 05:42:54 pm »
+2

I'll probably say it seem too strong at $6 because trashing and +1vp each turn seem stronger than hierling's +1 cards.
A way to balance could be: make the vp conditional
for example: "when you trash a card that cost $3 or more: +1vp" the 3 is juts here for the example.  This change can also allow you to get rid of the "one trash per turn" condition if the amount of require $ is hight enough.

Oh, that's a good suggestion!  So you can still use it to get rid of junk like Coppers and Estates (and Curses if there's any Cursers in the game), but you wouldn't be getting the VP for those.  Fortress would still make a really strong combo even with that restriction, but that's one specific card combination

Okay, so here's the new version (I've edited the original post to include this)



Now it still gives you +1VP for trashing, but only for the first card trashed each turn, and only for cards costing $2 or more (so no trashing Coppers or Curses for benefit).  You can still trash multiple cards if you have multiple Archbishops in play, but you only benefit from one trashed card.  I also specified "each turn" so that if you trash on another person's turn, such as via a trashing attack, or with their play of Bishop, you still get the VP.  But, if you trash multiple cards on a single turn, you don't get the VP for each one.  So, it no longer goes crazy with things like Fortress.  You can certainly trash Fortress at the start of your turn, and if you have multiple Archbishops in play, you could get several VP, but it's limited, you can't keep trashing the same Fortress over and over (well, I mean, you *could*, but you wouldn't get any benefit after the first one)
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #22 on: April 03, 2021, 07:21:26 pm »
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FAQ: Once played, Secret Stash stays in play for the rest of the game. The turn you play it, you take the top three cards of your deck (shuffling if necessary) and put them under Secret Stash. At the start of each subsequent turn you will trade a card from your hand for one under Secret Stash (this is mandatory). You will do this by setting aside a card from your hand; putting a card from under Secret Stash into your hand; and then putting the set-aside card under Secret Stash. This is done in this manner so that you cannot exchange a card for itself. You may look at the cards under Secret Stash whenever you like, but other players cannot. If you play multiple Secret Stashes (or one Secret Stash multiple times, for example, via Throne Room), you will set aside multiple batches of three cards – each batch will be kept separate and, at the start of each turn, you may decide in what order to resolve them. At the end of the game, include the cards under Secret Stash in your deck when scoring.
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gambit05

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #23 on: April 04, 2021, 01:50:59 am »
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FAQ: Once played, Secret Stash stays in play for the rest of the game. The turn you play it, you take the top three cards of your deck (shuffling if necessary) and put them under Secret Stash. At the start of each subsequent turn you will trade a card from your hand for one under Secret Stash (this is mandatory). You will do this by setting aside a card from your hand; putting a card from under Secret Stash into your hand; and then putting the set-aside card under Secret Stash. This is done in this manner so that you cannot exchange a card for itself. You may look at the cards under Secret Stash whenever you like, but other players cannot. If you play multiple Secret Stashes (or one Secret Stash multiple times, for example, via Throne Room), you will set aside multiple batches of three cards – each batch will be kept separate and, at the start of each turn, you may decide in what order to resolve them. At the end of the game, include the cards under Secret Stash in your deck when scoring.

I wonder if it is possible to describe the lengthy process much shorter by using a new keyword, "replace", i.e.: "At the start of each turn: Replace one of them with a card from your hand". To me that looks unambiguous and doesn't allow any unwanted triggers as far as I can see it. It would look quite nice and simple. Anyway, nice idea.
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mandioca15

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #24 on: April 04, 2021, 07:18:52 am »
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Magnate (Action-Duration, $5)

At the start of each of your turns, if you have no Debt tokens, +2 Cards, +1 Buy and take two Debt tokens.
(This remains in play.)

A perma-Wharf that only functions if you can keep on top of your Debt.
Is it intentional that you only ever want to play one of these? Because it seems in that case it would make more sense as a Project.

Would it work better if it always gave you the draw, buy and Debt tokens, regardless of if you have Debt?
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