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Author Topic: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play  (Read 18716 times)

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mathdude

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Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« on: April 03, 2021, 12:34:12 am »
+3

Weekly Design Contest #110: (This stays in play)

Design a card that stays in "play".  It should stay in play for the remainder of the game, and have a continued active benefit/reason while doing so.

The two main official examples are: Hireling and Champion, as they explicitly state "(This stays in play)".  Hireling gives you an extra card to start each turn.  Champion is a very powerful card (unlimited actions and permanent protection from attacks) but is hard to get as it's at the end of a Traveler line.

Another borderline example, which I would accept, is Prince.  It uses the "set aside" mechanic, which generally would not be acceptable for this contest (such as Crypt which is only set aside for a limited time and Island which gives no active, ongoing benefit but just passively takes it and another card out of your deck).  Prince does not stay in "play", but is effectively doing the same thing as the cards above - giving you an active, ongoing benefit at the start of each turn for the rest of the game (assuming you remember to do it every turn!)

Reserve cards also don't count.  They are effectively "set aside" too, and the only official card intended to stay there is Distant Lands, which is similar to Island.  Other Reserve cards don't intend to stay on the Tavern Mat for the rest of the game, since they offer a benefit once they are called.

I expect most (if not all) cards will be Duration cards to achieve this contest's goal (unless you can come up with a clever, well-designed card like Prince).  If you want your card to be the final one in a Traveler line (like Champion), I recommend you post the full line of cards - only the final one will be judged, but its interactions with the rest of the line will likely be important to understanding its design.

Criteria for judging your cards

Interaction and fun: The card should look like it will be fun to play with.  It should interact well with existing cards, mechanics, and strategies (use only official mechanics - not additional fan mechanics).  It should be fun to play with 2 players or with 4 (or even 6).

Balance: I will not be playtesting submitted cards, but will use my judgement as to how balanced they seem.  The price and functioning of the card should not have any obvious problems.  Minor text corrections being required (to be in line with official wording) is not a problem, and there can be edge cases which break your card or the game (that's normal with new/unique designs), but it should make sense to play with the vast majority of official cards.

Text length: Cards should be elegant and easy to understand.  They do not need to be "simple", but they do need to be clear and not require lengthy additional rules to explain how they work.  (In this case, Prince would not score as well as something like Hireling).

Submission and deadline

The newest/submitted version of your card should be clearly indicated in your original submission post (with any earlier submissions clearly indicated as no longer current). When you update your submission, please also make a new post stating that you are updating your submission (this is helpful for the next 6 days, but it is mandatory within the final 24 hours of the contest).

I intend to give a 24 hours warning around noon on Friday, April 9th (and will post current submissions at that time), with the contest closing at noon on Saturday, April 10th.
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pubby

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2021, 02:22:17 am »
+10


It's a Haven/Save effect each turn, written in a slightly non-conventional way because all the alternative wordings sucked.
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Aquila

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2021, 06:24:57 am »
+3

Quote
Lithograph - Action Duration, $5 cost.
Gain 3 Silvers.
At the start of each of your turns for the rest of the game, you may trash a Silver from your hand for +2 Cards, +1 Buy and + $2.
(This stays in play.)
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mandioca15

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2021, 08:15:51 am »
+4

Magnate (Action-Duration, $5)

At the start of each of your turns, if you have no Debt tokens, +2 Cards, +1 Buy and take two Debt tokens.
(This remains in play.)


A perma-Wharf that only functions if you can keep on top of your Debt.

(See reply #82 for latest version of this card).
« Last Edit: April 07, 2021, 02:40:27 pm by mandioca15 »
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faust

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2021, 08:28:15 am »
+3

Magnate (Action-Duration, $5)

At the start of each of your turns, if you have no Debt tokens, +2 Cards, +1 Buy and take two Debt tokens.
(This remains in play.)

A perma-Wharf that only functions if you can keep on top of your Debt.
Is it intentional that you only ever want to play one of these? Because it seems in that case it would make more sense as a Project.
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Shael

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2021, 10:14:54 am »
+2

I really like the idea of this Weekly Contest.
This is my submission:

I don't know if "courtyard of miracle" is an international reference so if nobody have it and if it's problematic, I could change the name.
Don't hesitate to notice me if you have a problem with the cost, I think $4 is too strong but I've hesitate to put it at $6 (or, why not, ad debs cost)
After consultation of the discord's #variant; the card have been changed. It now cost $4 and give +1Action when you play it in order to avoid colision.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2021, 02:10:57 am by Shael »
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mxdata

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2021, 11:29:51 am »
0

I really like the idea of this Weekly Contest.
This is my submission:

I don't know if "courtyard of miracle" is an international reference so if nobody have it and if it's problematic, I could change the name.
Don't hesitate to notice me if you have a problem with the cost, I think $4 is too strong but I've hesitate to put it at $6 (or, why not, ad debs cost)

I don't know the reference, but I don't think that's an issue, it's a  cool-sounding name anyways.  My only concern is that in most games I'm not sure why you'd ever *want* to buy this.  I can certainly think of some card combos that would benefit from this, but it seems like most of the time this would just end up self-junking.  You usually want to get rid of Coppers, not gain them
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Shael

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2021, 11:45:35 am »
0

I really like the idea of this Weekly Contest.
This is my submission:

I don't know if "courtyard of miracle" is an international reference so if nobody have it and if it's problematic, I could change the name.
Don't hesitate to notice me if you have a problem with the cost, I think $4 is too strong but I've hesitate to put it at $6 (or, why not, ad debs cost)

I don't know the reference, but I don't think that's an issue, it's a  cool-sounding name anyways.  My only concern is that in most games I'm not sure why you'd ever *want* to buy this.  I can certainly think of some card combos that would benefit from this, but it seems like most of the time this would just end up self-junking.  You usually want to get rid of Coppers, not gain them
This is one of the return I had on discord; we notice a synergy with counting house, gardens, Duke, guildhall, maybe tower,
all cards that give things for trashing treasure (moneylender/ Spice merchant) or force you to trash (trade route; junk dealer; rats; Cathedral)
The main probelm was here:
Tha card bring you to a deck density of 1 so you have around $6 per turn (where you can esaly buy more of them).
With at least 3 of these, it's a Province each turn. When we saw cards like Duke or Garden that are played because they make value with junk; it was hard to say if it's a bad plan or not...

Btw, the card's name could sound good but don't have the reference reduce the card's flavour to nearly nothing: Why something called a "courtyard of miracle" give you Copper?
« Last Edit: April 03, 2021, 11:49:51 am by Shael »
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grep

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2021, 11:55:48 am »
+5




Harlequin
$5 - Action - Duration
At start of each of your turns for the rest of the game:
You may discard your hand for +4 Cards.
(This stays in play)

Endless mulligan, to counter bad luck and hand reducing attacks, or just to collect the on discard effects such as Tunnel. Second Harlequin is not as powerful as the first one, but still has some value.
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mxdata

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2021, 01:04:53 pm »
+1


Quote
Archbishop
Action-Duration
$6
At the start of each of your turns for the rest of the game, if you have not trashed a card that turn, you may trash a card from your hand.
-
While this is in play, when you trash a card, +1VP
(This stays in play)
EDIT: Modified this, see below for new version
Allows you to trash for benefit at the start of each of your turns.  The benefit doesn't scale, though, it's a fixed 1 VP per Archbishop in play.  Also, even if you have multiple Archbishops in play, you can still only trash one card.  I put that restriction on there because otherwise it would be broken with multiple Archbishops.  It would be especially broken with Changeling, since Changeling would make it really easy to gain copies once you bought the first one.  Without that restriction you could end up with a situation where you have 5 Archbishops in play and the most sensible strategy would be to simply trash your starting hand every turn for +25 VP (5 cards * 5 VP each) until you've trashed everything, then spend the rest of the game buying a Copper each turn to trash on the next for +5VP!  Or worse, if you had extra buys, you could buy multiple Coppers.  Imagine a "golden deck" consisting of 2 Markets and 3 Coppers.  Trash the 3 Coppers for 15 VP, then play the two Markets, buy 3 Coppers and repeat the next turn.  Truly awful!  I had also considered instead putting "other than with this" on the while-in-play clause, but then that would restrict the trashing for benefit to kingdoms that have at least one other trasher.  So, this way you can still get +1VP per Archbishop in play by trashing a card at the start of your turn even if there are no other trashers.  But you can't go crazy and trash a bunch of cards each turn without some other trashers

The cost is something I kept going back and forth on.  It's basically an improved Cathedral - the trashing is optional so you're never forced to trash a good card, and you get VP out of it, although you do have to wait for the card to get shuffled and drawn.  Does it seem balanced at $6?



Okay, new version.  Now it still gives you +1VP for trashing, but only for the first card trashed each turn, and only for cards costing $2 or more (so no trashing Coppers or Curses for benefit).  You can still trash multiple cards if you have multiple Archbishops in play, but you only benefit from one trashed card.  I also specified "each turn" so that if you trash on another person's turn, such as via a trashing attack, or with their play of Bishop, you still get the VP.  But, if you trash multiple cards on a single turn, you don't get the VP for each one.  So, it no longer goes crazy with things like Fortress.  You can certainly trash Fortress at the start of your turn, and if you have multiple Archbishops in play, you could get several VP, but it's limited, you can't keep trashing the same Fortress over and over (well, I mean, you *could*, but you wouldn't get any benefit after the first one)
« Last Edit: April 03, 2021, 05:43:01 pm by mxdata »
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mxdata

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2021, 01:14:56 pm »
0

I really like the idea of this Weekly Contest.
This is my submission:

I don't know if "courtyard of miracle" is an international reference so if nobody have it and if it's problematic, I could change the name.
Don't hesitate to notice me if you have a problem with the cost, I think $4 is too strong but I've hesitate to put it at $6 (or, why not, ad debs cost)

I don't know the reference, but I don't think that's an issue, it's a  cool-sounding name anyways.  My only concern is that in most games I'm not sure why you'd ever *want* to buy this.  I can certainly think of some card combos that would benefit from this, but it seems like most of the time this would just end up self-junking.  You usually want to get rid of Coppers, not gain them
This is one of the return I had on discord; we notice a synergy with counting house, gardens, Duke, guildhall, maybe tower,
all cards that give things for trashing treasure (moneylender/ Spice merchant) or force you to trash (trade route; junk dealer; rats; Cathedral)
The main probelm was here:
Tha card bring you to a deck density of 1 so you have around $6 per turn (where you can esaly buy more of them).
With at least 3 of these, it's a Province each turn. When we saw cards like Duke or Garden that are played because they make value with junk; it was hard to say if it's a bad plan or not...

Btw, the card's name could sound good but don't have the reference reduce the card's flavour to nearly nothing: Why something called a "courtyard of miracle" give you Copper?

Hmm ... that's a good point.  Each one in play effectively reduces the amount of money you need to get to buy a Province by 1, so the self-junking wouldn't be so bad.  And there are some specific combos that would be really strong with it.  Monastery + Tombs + this would be really good, and just Monastery in general can deal with the junking if you're going for a more engine-based strategy.  So I'll admit I underestimated it
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Shael

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2021, 01:21:12 pm »
+1


Quote
Archbishop
Action-Duration
$6
At the start of each of your turns for the rest of the game, if you have not trashed a card that turn, you may trash a card from your hand.
-
While this is in play, when you trash a card, +1VP
(This stays in play)
Allows you to trash for benefit at the start of each of your turns.  The benefit doesn't scale, though, it's a fixed 1 VP per Archbishop in play.  Also, even if you have multiple Archbishops in play, you can still only trash one card.  I put that restriction on there because otherwise it would be broken with multiple Archbishops.  It would be especially broken with Changeling, since Changeling would make it really easy to gain copies once you bought the first one.  Without that restriction you could end up with a situation where you have 5 Archbishops in play and the most sensible strategy would be to simply trash your starting hand every turn for +25 VP (5 cards * 5 VP each) until you've trashed everything, then spend the rest of the game buying a Copper each turn to trash on the next for +5VP!  Or worse, if you had extra buys, you could buy multiple Coppers.  Imagine a "golden deck" consisting of 2 Markets and 3 Coppers.  Trash the 3 Coppers for 15 VP, then play the two Markets, buy 3 Coppers and repeat the next turn.  Truly awful!  I had also considered instead putting "other than with this" on the while-in-play clause, but then that would restrict the trashing for benefit to kingdoms that have at least one other trasher.  So, this way you can still get +1VP per Archbishop in play by trashing a card at the start of your turn even if there are no other trashers.  But you can't go crazy and trash a bunch of cards each turn without some other trashers

The cost is something I kept going back and forth on.  It's basically an improved Cathedral - the trashing is optional so you're never forced to trash a good card, and you get VP out of it, although you do have to wait for the card to get shuffled and drawn.  Does it seem balanced at $6?
I'll probably say it seem too strong at $6 because trashing and +1vp each turn seem stronger than hierling's +1 cards.
A way to balance could be: make the vp conditional
for example: "when you trash a card that cost $3 or more: +1vp" the 3 is juts here for the example.  This change can also allow you to get rid of the "one trash per turn" condition if the amount of require $ is hight enough.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2021, 01:22:14 pm by Shael »
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faust

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #12 on: April 03, 2021, 01:30:26 pm »
+4


Quote
Mummer's Farce
Night/Duration - $5

+5 Villagers
+5 Coffers
At the start of each of your turns for the rest of the game, lose a Villager or Coffers.
(This stays in play.)
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mxdata

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #13 on: April 03, 2021, 01:30:37 pm »
0


Quote
Archbishop
Action-Duration
$6
At the start of each of your turns for the rest of the game, if you have not trashed a card that turn, you may trash a card from your hand.
-
While this is in play, when you trash a card, +1VP
(This stays in play)
Allows you to trash for benefit at the start of each of your turns.  The benefit doesn't scale, though, it's a fixed 1 VP per Archbishop in play.  Also, even if you have multiple Archbishops in play, you can still only trash one card.  I put that restriction on there because otherwise it would be broken with multiple Archbishops.  It would be especially broken with Changeling, since Changeling would make it really easy to gain copies once you bought the first one.  Without that restriction you could end up with a situation where you have 5 Archbishops in play and the most sensible strategy would be to simply trash your starting hand every turn for +25 VP (5 cards * 5 VP each) until you've trashed everything, then spend the rest of the game buying a Copper each turn to trash on the next for +5VP!  Or worse, if you had extra buys, you could buy multiple Coppers.  Imagine a "golden deck" consisting of 2 Markets and 3 Coppers.  Trash the 3 Coppers for 15 VP, then play the two Markets, buy 3 Coppers and repeat the next turn.  Truly awful!  I had also considered instead putting "other than with this" on the while-in-play clause, but then that would restrict the trashing for benefit to kingdoms that have at least one other trasher.  So, this way you can still get +1VP per Archbishop in play by trashing a card at the start of your turn even if there are no other trashers.  But you can't go crazy and trash a bunch of cards each turn without some other trashers

The cost is something I kept going back and forth on.  It's basically an improved Cathedral - the trashing is optional so you're never forced to trash a good card, and you get VP out of it, although you do have to wait for the card to get shuffled and drawn.  Does it seem balanced at $6?
I'll probably say it seem too strong at $6 because trashing and +1vp each turn seem stronger than hierling's +1 cards.
A way to balance could be: make the vp conditional
for example: "when you trash a card that cost $3 or more: +1vp" the 3 is juts here for the example.  This change can also allow you to get rid of the "one trash per turn" condition if the amount of require $ is hight enough.

Oh, that's a good suggestion!  So you can still use it to get rid of junk like Coppers and Estates (and Curses if there's any Cursers in the game), but you wouldn't be getting the VP for those.  Fortress would still make a really strong combo even with that restriction, but that's one specific card combination
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silverspawn

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #14 on: April 03, 2021, 01:56:24 pm »
0

Mummer's Farce
Night/Duration - $5

+5 Villagers
+5 Coffers
At the start of each of your turns for the rest of the game, lose a Villager or Coffers.
(This stays in play.)

Very cool.

... but it should be 'Village or Coffer' (singular), right?

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #15 on: April 03, 2021, 02:07:31 pm »
+2

Mummer's Farce
Night/Duration - $5

+5 Villagers
+5 Coffers
At the start of each of your turns for the rest of the game, lose a Villager or Coffers.
(This stays in play.)

Very cool.

... but it should be 'Village or Coffer' (singular), right?
Well, Candelstick Maker says +1 Coffers. It's only used in plural form from what I know, similar to Ruins.
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Shael

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #16 on: April 03, 2021, 02:26:45 pm »
0

Mummer's Farce
Night/Duration - $5

+5 Villagers
+5 Coffers
At the start of each of your turns for the rest of the game, lose a Villager or Coffers.
(This stays in play.)

Very cool.

... but it should be 'Village or Coffer' (singular), right?
It should be "one Villager or one Coffers"
Coffers is never singular (ex on candlestick maker). oops; already spoted
« Last Edit: April 03, 2021, 02:27:52 pm by Shael »
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #17 on: April 03, 2021, 02:39:34 pm »
0


Perhaps it could only work on victory cards, or something to that extent. That would make it different from Cathedral, would reduce the amount of VP it could gain, and would make it less swingy by means of being cheaper.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #18 on: April 03, 2021, 02:43:27 pm »
+2

Retracted from Submission

My Submission:


 
Notes

Goods is a non-Supply card that comes in a pile of 30 copies.

Goods interacts with cards that have the Vendor type, like Fruiterer. This connection allows designing different Vendor cards and justifies the large number of Goods (if that would ever be printed).

A player’s Fruiterer can gain Goods for free as long as they haven’t any Goods in play yet.

If a player has more than 4 Goods in play, their Fruiterer can only receive each of the 4 options once per play. The sole purpose of excess Goods is to have more of them in play than the other players, which gives them a Horse, if that is the case.

“Patience is bitter, but its fruit is sweet.” - Aristotle

"Sometimes, fruits are bitter." - gambit05
Goods
– Action – Duration

Quote

When you play a Vendor,
 choose a different option for
          each Goods you have in play:         
 +1 Card; +1 Action;
+1 Coffers; +1 Buy.

(This stays in play. This is
not in the Supply.)


Fruiterer
– Action - Vendor

Quote

+1 Action
You may gain a Goods.
If you did and you have
 Goods in play, take .

             If you have more Goods             
 in play than any other
player, gain a Horse.


« Last Edit: April 05, 2021, 10:21:27 am by gambit05 »
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Shael

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #19 on: April 03, 2021, 04:31:13 pm »
0

Do you know if we can participate more than once per Contest?
Because this one is verry inspiring...
« Last Edit: April 03, 2021, 04:32:26 pm by Shael »
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #20 on: April 03, 2021, 05:25:29 pm »
0

Do you know if we can participate more than once per Contest?
Because this one is verry inspiring...

Only one entry per contest.  But if you have other ideas, you can always make a separate post in the variants and fan cards forum
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #21 on: April 03, 2021, 05:42:54 pm »
+2

I'll probably say it seem too strong at $6 because trashing and +1vp each turn seem stronger than hierling's +1 cards.
A way to balance could be: make the vp conditional
for example: "when you trash a card that cost $3 or more: +1vp" the 3 is juts here for the example.  This change can also allow you to get rid of the "one trash per turn" condition if the amount of require $ is hight enough.

Oh, that's a good suggestion!  So you can still use it to get rid of junk like Coppers and Estates (and Curses if there's any Cursers in the game), but you wouldn't be getting the VP for those.  Fortress would still make a really strong combo even with that restriction, but that's one specific card combination

Okay, so here's the new version (I've edited the original post to include this)



Now it still gives you +1VP for trashing, but only for the first card trashed each turn, and only for cards costing $2 or more (so no trashing Coppers or Curses for benefit).  You can still trash multiple cards if you have multiple Archbishops in play, but you only benefit from one trashed card.  I also specified "each turn" so that if you trash on another person's turn, such as via a trashing attack, or with their play of Bishop, you still get the VP.  But, if you trash multiple cards on a single turn, you don't get the VP for each one.  So, it no longer goes crazy with things like Fortress.  You can certainly trash Fortress at the start of your turn, and if you have multiple Archbishops in play, you could get several VP, but it's limited, you can't keep trashing the same Fortress over and over (well, I mean, you *could*, but you wouldn't get any benefit after the first one)
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spheremonk

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #22 on: April 03, 2021, 07:21:26 pm »
+2




FAQ: Once played, Secret Stash stays in play for the rest of the game. The turn you play it, you take the top three cards of your deck (shuffling if necessary) and put them under Secret Stash. At the start of each subsequent turn you will trade a card from your hand for one under Secret Stash (this is mandatory). You will do this by setting aside a card from your hand; putting a card from under Secret Stash into your hand; and then putting the set-aside card under Secret Stash. This is done in this manner so that you cannot exchange a card for itself. You may look at the cards under Secret Stash whenever you like, but other players cannot. If you play multiple Secret Stashes (or one Secret Stash multiple times, for example, via Throne Room), you will set aside multiple batches of three cards – each batch will be kept separate and, at the start of each turn, you may decide in what order to resolve them. At the end of the game, include the cards under Secret Stash in your deck when scoring.
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gambit05

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #23 on: April 04, 2021, 01:50:59 am »
0




FAQ: Once played, Secret Stash stays in play for the rest of the game. The turn you play it, you take the top three cards of your deck (shuffling if necessary) and put them under Secret Stash. At the start of each subsequent turn you will trade a card from your hand for one under Secret Stash (this is mandatory). You will do this by setting aside a card from your hand; putting a card from under Secret Stash into your hand; and then putting the set-aside card under Secret Stash. This is done in this manner so that you cannot exchange a card for itself. You may look at the cards under Secret Stash whenever you like, but other players cannot. If you play multiple Secret Stashes (or one Secret Stash multiple times, for example, via Throne Room), you will set aside multiple batches of three cards – each batch will be kept separate and, at the start of each turn, you may decide in what order to resolve them. At the end of the game, include the cards under Secret Stash in your deck when scoring.

I wonder if it is possible to describe the lengthy process much shorter by using a new keyword, "replace", i.e.: "At the start of each turn: Replace one of them with a card from your hand". To me that looks unambiguous and doesn't allow any unwanted triggers as far as I can see it. It would look quite nice and simple. Anyway, nice idea.
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mandioca15

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #24 on: April 04, 2021, 07:18:52 am »
0

Magnate (Action-Duration, $5)

At the start of each of your turns, if you have no Debt tokens, +2 Cards, +1 Buy and take two Debt tokens.
(This remains in play.)

A perma-Wharf that only functions if you can keep on top of your Debt.
Is it intentional that you only ever want to play one of these? Because it seems in that case it would make more sense as a Project.

Would it work better if it always gave you the draw, buy and Debt tokens, regardless of if you have Debt?
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #25 on: April 04, 2021, 10:22:14 am »
+2

Alchemical Factory
$6
Action - Duration
At the start of your turn, you may trash a card from your hand. If you do, you may gain a differently-named card to your hand, costing up to $1 more than it.
(This stays in play)

Trashing coppers is a potential use, but probably not the best one. Overpowered with Fortress, but that’s true of many trash-for-benefit cards and this is costly enough that you won’t get the super fast pile-outs seen with Upgrade-Fortress. The "differently-named card" wording prevents Province--> Province like with Transmogrify.

Update: changed "different" to "differently-named." Thanks, mxdata!
« Last Edit: April 04, 2021, 03:50:40 pm by JW »
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faust

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #26 on: April 04, 2021, 11:18:59 am »
0

Magnate (Action-Duration, $5)

At the start of each of your turns, if you have no Debt tokens, +2 Cards, +1 Buy and take two Debt tokens.
(This remains in play.)

A perma-Wharf that only functions if you can keep on top of your Debt.
Is it intentional that you only ever want to play one of these? Because it seems in that case it would make more sense as a Project.

Would it work better if it always gave you the draw, buy and Debt tokens, regardless of if you have Debt?
Maybe? I think I like the balance with it only giving draw if you have no Debt, so it's not too bonkers with no-buy engines. But it would be good if they could still be stacked. Not sure there's a good wording for it. A somewhat awkward solution would be

"At the start of each of your turns, if you have no Debt tokens, +2 Cards, +1 Buy and put two Debt tokens on this. At the start of your Buy phase, take the Debt from here."
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mxdata

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #27 on: April 04, 2021, 11:19:55 am »
+1

Alchemical Factory
$6
Action - Duration
At the start of your turn, you may trash a card from your hand. If you do, you may gain a different card to your hand, costing up to $1 more than it.
(This stays in play)

Trashing coppers is a potential use, but probably not the best one. Overpowered with Fortress, but that’s true of many trash-for-benefit cards and this is costly enough that you won’t get the super fast pile-outs seen with Upgrade-Fortress. The "different card" wording prevents Province--> Province like with Transmogrify.

"Differently-named" is the usual wording for that
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #28 on: April 04, 2021, 02:31:14 pm »
+3


Quote
Salt Mine • $5 • Action - Duration
At the start of your turn, trash the top card of your deck. You may gain a copy of the trashed card.

(This stays in play)

Salt the Earth or just general deck-cleaning. Get a bunch to do a 3pile.

EDIT: dropped the "to your hand" portion
« Last Edit: April 05, 2021, 12:27:52 pm by spineflu »
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #29 on: April 04, 2021, 04:10:59 pm »
+3


Quote
Salt Mine • $5 • Action - Duration
At the start of your turn, trash the top card of your deck. You may gain a copy of the trashed card to your hand.

(This stays in play)

Salt the Earth or just general deck-cleaning. Get a bunch to do a 3pile.
Isn't this for the most part better than Hireling? Granted, it sucks when piles start to run out but in the early game it's a Hireling+ for $5.
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fika monster

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #30 on: April 04, 2021, 04:43:43 pm »
0

This card is no longer my submission: there's a bit too many problems with it, and its not that exciting



Haven and Sacrafice had a baby, and it became this!

Edit: Wording changes per Shaels and Annie administrator suggestion


Edit 2: Wording changes to make it clearer.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2021, 09:29:53 am by fika monster »
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mathdude

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #31 on: April 04, 2021, 05:39:55 pm »
0


It's a Haven/Save effect each turn, written in a slightly non-conventional way because all the alternative wordings sucked.

Just to clarify, this is effectively to put an unused Action or Treasure card from your hand into your next hand?

So, do you still draw 5 cards at the end of turn and end up with 6? Or do you draw until you have 5?
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grep

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #32 on: April 04, 2021, 05:51:03 pm »
+3



Haven and Sacrafice had a baby, and it became this!

Edit: Wording changes per Shaels and Annie administrator suggestion

"If that card" - which card, the one set under Chamber or the one taken out? Regardless, for accountability that card should be revealed to the other players.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2021, 05:55:01 pm by grep »
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pubby

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #33 on: April 04, 2021, 06:59:06 pm »
+1

Just to clarify, this is effectively to put an unused Action or Treasure card from your hand into your next hand?

So, do you still draw 5 cards at the end of turn and end up with 6? Or do you draw until you have 5?
Yeah you'd have 6 cards the next turn. You can also use it to keep victory cards out of your deck.
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Xen3k

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #34 on: April 04, 2021, 07:22:07 pm »
+1



Quote
Kinsman - $4
Action - Duration
At the start of each of your turns for the rest of the game, you may discard a card for +1 Card. If you discard a copy of this, choose one: +1 Action; or +1 Coffers; or gain a Horse.
(This stays in play)

A permanent sifter that is better if you have additional copies to discard to it. Not sure about the price, but $4 seems reasonable.
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mxdata

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #35 on: April 04, 2021, 07:52:24 pm »
0

Just to clarify, this is effectively to put an unused Action or Treasure card from your hand into your next hand?

So, do you still draw 5 cards at the end of turn and end up with 6? Or do you draw until you have 5?
Yeah you'd have 6 cards the next turn. You can also use it to keep victory cards out of your deck.
Would also work really well with cards that you want to line up with other cards, like Treasure Map with another Treasure Map
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mxdata

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #36 on: April 04, 2021, 07:55:38 pm »
+1



Quote
Kinsman - $4
Action - Duration
At the start of each of your turns for the rest of the game, you may discard a card for +1 Card. If you discard a copy of this, choose one: +1 Action; or +1 Coffers; or gain a Horse.
(This stays in play)

A permanent sifter that is better if you have additional copies to discard to it. Not sure about the price, but $4 seems reasonable.

Sounds like a fair price to me.  It would be useful to have, especially once you start greening, but not too terribly strong.  Though, I think it would usually be more advantageous to play extra copies rather than discarding extra copies to it
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Xen3k

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #37 on: April 04, 2021, 08:09:23 pm »
0



Quote
Kinsman - $4
Action - Duration
At the start of each of your turns for the rest of the game, you may discard a card for +1 Card. If you discard a copy of this, choose one: +1 Action; or +1 Coffers; or gain a Horse.
(This stays in play)

A permanent sifter that is better if you have additional copies to discard to it. Not sure about the price, but $4 seems reasonable.

Sounds like a fair price to me.  It would be useful to have, especially once you start greening, but not too terribly strong.  Though, I think it would usually be more advantageous to play extra copies rather than discarding extra copies to it

That is a fair criticism. I was unsure of the rewards for discarding a Kinsman were good enough. Do you think a buff is warranted? Would  +2 Actions, +2 Coffers, or +2 Horses be too good?
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #38 on: April 04, 2021, 08:12:23 pm »
0


Quote
Salt Mine • $5 • Action - Duration
At the start of your turn, trash the top card of your deck. You may gain a copy of the trashed card to your hand.

(This stays in play)

Salt the Earth or just general deck-cleaning. Get a bunch to do a 3pile.
Isn't this for the most part better than Hireling? Granted, it sucks when piles start to run out but in the early game it's a Hireling+ for $5.

Not when it hits green (and inadvertently thins the provinces). Or when it hits junk. It's also different in Necromancer games. Think I should drop the "to your hand" part?
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The Alchemist

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #39 on: April 04, 2021, 11:19:46 pm »
+2


Quote
Salt Mine • $5 • Action - Duration
At the start of your turn, trash the top card of your deck. You may gain a copy of the trashed card to your hand.

(This stays in play)

Salt the Earth or just general deck-cleaning. Get a bunch to do a 3pile.

Isn't this for the most part better than Hireling? Granted, it sucks when piles start to run out but in the early game it's a Hireling+ for $5.

Not when it hits green (and inadvertently thins the provinces). Or when it hits junk. It's also different in Necromancer games. Think I should drop the "to your hand" part?

Yes I do believe this is (almost) strictly better than hireling. It's virtually: "+1 Card and either trash the drawn card or a copy of the drawn card from the supply". So, excluding times when the pile for the drawn card is empty, it's always a hireling+. This needs to be more than 6 if it gains to hand. I'd say drop the to your hand part.
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anordinaryman

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #40 on: April 05, 2021, 12:08:18 am »
+8


Quote
Voyage | Night - Duration | $4
If this is the first time you played a Voyage this turn, and the previous turn wasn't yours, then take an extra turn after this one. At the start of each of your turns for the rest of the game: gain a Copper.
(This stays in play.)
-
This is gained to your hand (instead of your discard pile)

Each one you gain ends up junking your deck more and more. Maybe you can handle a copper a turn, especially towards the end of the game. Not too many decks can handle gaining 5 coppers each turn.

Trash in play essentially a multi-use seize the day and I'm okay with that.


I updated the card. The previous version did not prevent playing multiple in a turn to get more than 2 turns in a row. Here is the original version:


Quote

Voyage | Night - Duration | $4
If the previous turn wasn't yours, then take an extra turn after this one. At the start of each of your turns for the rest of the game: gain a Copper.
(This stays in play.)
-
This is gained to your hand (instead of your discard pile)

« Last Edit: April 05, 2021, 01:42:37 pm by anordinaryman »
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mxdata

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #41 on: April 05, 2021, 01:27:45 am »
+2


Quote
Voyage | Night - Duration | $4
If the previous turn wasn't yours, then take an extra turn after this one. At the start of each of your turns for the rest of the game: gain a Copper.
(This stays in play.)
-
This is gained to your hand (instead of your discard pile)

Each one you gain ends up junking your deck more and more. Maybe you can handle a copper a turn, especially towards the end of the game. Not too many decks can handle gaining 5 coppers each turn.

Trash in play essentially a multi-use seize the day and I'm okay with that.

I'd probably never buy this in a kingdom without good trashing.  With good trashing, on the other hand, it could be worth it.  Watchtower would make a good combo with this.  It would definitely be an interesting card to play with!  A nice challenge to decide if it's worth it in a given kingdom

EDIT: I just noticed it's gained to hand.  So it would definitely be worthwhile near the end, especially if you don't think you're likely to hit a reshuffle before the game ends
« Last Edit: April 05, 2021, 01:31:00 am by mxdata »
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pubby

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #42 on: April 05, 2021, 01:59:48 am »
+3


Sweet design..

This is a pedantic point, but you likely want "Once per turn" on it. Otherwise you can activate multiple on the same turn, and take several turns after.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #43 on: April 05, 2021, 03:22:26 am »
+1


Quote
Voyage | Night - Duration | $4
If the previous turn wasn't yours, then take an extra turn after this one. At the start of each of your turns for the rest of the game: gain a Copper.
(This stays in play.)
-
This is gained to your hand (instead of your discard pile)

Each one you gain ends up junking your deck more and more. Maybe you can handle a copper a turn, especially towards the end of the game. Not too many decks can handle gaining 5 coppers each turn.

Trash in play essentially a multi-use seize the day and I'm okay with that.

I feel like it could cost more.  You probably won’t be buying this early in the game anyway.  Late in the game, the junking probably isn’t too detrimental and this would almost be like Seize the Day without the once per game limitation.
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The Alchemist

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Orrery
« Reply #44 on: April 05, 2021, 04:33:52 am »
0

Orrery:



Orrery lets you move cards from your discard to hand to deck, opposite the normal flow, the rotation between the 3 parts of your deck mimicking the celestial dance. Similar to Star Chart, lets you set up your hands with a bit of reverse-sifting, and can clear a bit of junk from your remaining deck. Two or more in play and you can effectively choose any card from your entire deck you want in your hand to start your turn with. Cards must be done in the order written, so starting a turn without any discard results in needing to topdeck a card, if you only have one Orrery in play. With 6 in play any hand of 5 you wish can be yours.

Discarding from your deck works just like discarding from hand, you may look through your deck and pick a card from it to put onto the discard pile, but you cannot change the order of the cards in any way. They are simply put back in the order they were. "Put a card from your deck to your discard pile" was a wording I was seriously considering, but I feel "discard a card from your deck" is understandable enough, and it is shorter after all. After all Orreries (and any other start of turn cards) have been resolved, then you shuffle the deck once (since back-to-back shuffles instructed by multiple cards is effectively the same as just one shuffle). With the errata, you are no longer required to look through your discard to pick a card from it, but I decided just to leave it in for more clarity.

Let me know what you think!
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segura

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #45 on: April 05, 2021, 04:42:12 am »
0



This is an old one.

It uses the Season mechanic to scale well. First I wanted to do this as an Event but you gotta track the Debt anyway. Furthermore an Event or a hand-gaining Night or a "play this when you gain it" (an idea I briefly considered) are too automatic in the endgame, you simply go for them if you cannot hit $8 in one of the latest turns in order to reach it next turn.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #46 on: April 05, 2021, 06:16:50 am »
+1


Quote
Voyage | Night - Duration | $4
If the previous turn wasn't yours, then take an extra turn after this one. At the start of each of your turns for the rest of the game: gain a Copper.
(This stays in play.)
-
This is gained to your hand (instead of your discard pile)

Each one you gain ends up junking your deck more and more. Maybe you can handle a copper a turn, especially towards the end of the game. Not too many decks can handle gaining 5 coppers each turn.

Trash in play essentially a multi-use seize the day and I'm okay with that.

Voyage/Gardens would likely be a very strong combo, sounds fun... :D

BTW, is Voyage discarded when the Copper pile is empty?
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mathdude

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #47 on: April 05, 2021, 08:18:46 am »
+1



This is an old one.

It uses the Season mechanic to scale well. First I wanted to do this as an Event but you gotta track the Debt anyway. Furthermore an Event or a hand-gaining Night or a "play this when you gain it" (an idea I briefly considered) are too automatic in the endgame, you simply go for them if you cannot hit $8 in one of the latest turns in order to reach it next turn.

I know it wasn't very clear in the original contest post, but...

Interaction and fun: The card should look like it will be fun to play with.  It should interact well with existing cards, mechanics, and strategies (use only official mechanics - not additional fan mechanics).  It should be fun to play with 2 players or with 4 (or even 6).

Please feel free to submit a different entry.  This one will not be considered.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #48 on: April 05, 2021, 08:43:14 am »
0

My Submission:


 
Notes

Goods is a non-Supply card that comes in a pile of 30 copies.

Goods interacts with cards that have the Vendor type, like Fruiterer. This connection allows designing different Vendor cards and justifies the large number of Goods (if that would ever be printed).

A player’s Fruiterer can gain Goods for free as long as they haven’t any Goods in play yet.

If a player has more than 4 Goods in play, their Fruiterer can only receive each of the 4 options once per play. The sole purpose of excess Goods is to have more of them in play than the other players, which gives them a Horse, if that is the case.


“Patience is bitter, but its fruit is sweet.” - Aristotle
Goods
– Action – Duration

Quote

When you play a Vendor,
 choose a different option for
          each Goods you have in play:         
 +1 Card; +1 Action;
+1 Coffers; +1 Buy.

(This stays in play. This is
not in the Supply.)


Fruiterer
– Action - Vendor

Quote

+1 Action
You may gain a Goods.
If you did and you have
 Goods in play, take .

             If you have more Goods             
 in play than any other
player, gain a Horse.


Since seeing this post 2 days ago, I have wavered back and forth a few times as to whether this uses existing mechanics or fan mechanics.  It parallels Looters (which I would call a specific new mechanic because it has a separate Type with new, specific rules that were added), but also parallels cards which use Horses (a 30-card non-supply pile, and these cards would not be a new mechanic because no extra rules are needed - if a card says it can gain a Horse, then Horses are put on the table, just like other non-supply piles like Spirits in Nocturne, or Hermit/Madman interaction).

Even typing this out, I have flipped back and forth a few times.  I started writing this thinking I would disqualify the entry since it parallels Looters too closely (having the new Type).  But then I realized you could just drop the "Vendor" Type, and have Goods work just like "Horses".  But then the Goods card specifically requires the new Type... I'm so confused about where I land on this!

Let's put it this way... as currently designed, I will say the submission is not valid.  But for the purposes of this contest, if you consider that Goods is not a generic non-supply pile that can interact with many other (not yet designed) Vendor cards, but instead consider it is specifically tied with Fruiterer, you would make the following changes - remove the Vendor type from Fruiterer, and change Goods to say "when you play a Fruiterer" (instead of "play a Vendor"), then it can be acceptable.  Fair enough?
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gambit05

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #49 on: April 05, 2021, 10:15:25 am »
0

Since seeing this post 2 days ago, I have wavered back and forth a few times as to whether this uses existing mechanics or fan mechanics.  It parallels Looters (which I would call a specific new mechanic because it has a separate Type with new, specific rules that were added), but also parallels cards which use Horses (a 30-card non-supply pile, and these cards would not be a new mechanic because no extra rules are needed - if a card says it can gain a Horse, then Horses are put on the table, just like other non-supply piles like Spirits in Nocturne, or Hermit/Madman interaction).

Even typing this out, I have flipped back and forth a few times.  I started writing this thinking I would disqualify the entry since it parallels Looters too closely (having the new Type).  But then I realized you could just drop the "Vendor" Type, and have Goods work just like "Horses".  But then the Goods card specifically requires the new Type... I'm so confused about where I land on this!

Let's put it this way... as currently designed, I will say the submission is not valid.  But for the purposes of this contest, if you consider that Goods is not a generic non-supply pile that can interact with many other (not yet designed) Vendor cards, but instead consider it is specifically tied with Fruiterer, you would make the following changes - remove the Vendor type from Fruiterer, and change Goods to say "when you play a Fruiterer" (instead of "play a Vendor"), then it can be acceptable.  Fair enough?

I started exactly with what you suggested. However, after that I thought about the pile size of Goods and concluded that it has to be larger for 4+ player games. Then I thought it looks like bad design to have a huge pile just for a single Kingdom card. So, I introduced the Vendor type to keep it open for use of other Kingdom cards (that I'll likely never design).

Since the cards do not seem to excite many people anyway, I retract them from submission.

Fair enough!
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #50 on: April 05, 2021, 12:55:55 pm »
0


Quote
Salt Mine • $5 • Action - Duration
At the start of your turn, trash the top card of your deck. You may gain a copy of the trashed card to your hand.

(This stays in play)

Salt the Earth or just general deck-cleaning. Get a bunch to do a 3pile.

Isn't this for the most part better than Hireling? Granted, it sucks when piles start to run out but in the early game it's a Hireling+ for $5.

Not when it hits green (and inadvertently thins the provinces). Or when it hits junk. It's also different in Necromancer games. Think I should drop the "to your hand" part?

Yes I do believe this is (almost) strictly better than hireling. It's virtually: "+1 Card and either trash the drawn card or a copy of the drawn card from the supply". So, excluding times when the pile for the drawn card is empty, it's always a hireling+. This needs to be more than 6 if it gains to hand. I'd say drop the to your hand part.

yeah, i removed that. submission updated upthread.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #51 on: April 05, 2021, 01:24:58 pm »
0

That is a fair criticism. I was unsure of the rewards for discarding a Kinsman were good enough. Do you think a buff is warranted? Would  +2 Actions, +2 Coffers, or +2 Horses be too good?

As-is, discarding a Kinsman with another Kinsman is a Village, Baker, or delayed lab, and you sort of need two 4$s to do that. But one of the 4$s plays itself every turn, so you only really need like one and a half 4$s. That's not bad. I think buying Kinsmen with the goal of discarding Kinsmen is already reasonable. If you up it to +2 Coffers, it gets bonkers.

You could make it cost 5$ and give +2 Coffers. In that case, it would be all about discarding them with each other. It depends on whether you want that to be the best way to use them.

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #52 on: April 05, 2021, 01:36:28 pm »
+8



I didn't manage to get the tool to write 'this stays in play' in italics. I assume it's supposed to happen automatically, but it didn't. :)
« Last Edit: April 05, 2021, 01:54:58 pm by silverspawn »
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #53 on: April 05, 2021, 01:38:00 pm »
+2



I didn't manage to get the tool to write 'this stays in play' in italics. I assume it's supposed to happen automatically, but it didn't.
gotta put a
Code: [Select]
[i] in front of it
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anordinaryman

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #54 on: April 05, 2021, 01:39:36 pm »
+1

Card Update

Quote
Voyage | Night - Duration | $4
If this is the first time you played a Voyage this turn, and the previous turn wasn't yours, then take an extra turn after this one. At the start of each of your turns for the rest of the game: gain a Copper.
(This stays in play.)
-
This is gained to your hand (instead of your discard pile)

This card is now non-lethal: This now prevents you from gaining and playing all 10 Voyages in one turn, which would ultimately kill the other player of boredom. Thank you pubby for your help.


Sweet design..

This is a pedantic point, but you likely want "Once per turn" on it. Otherwise you can activate multiple on the same turn, and take several turns after.

Thank you! That's an excellent point!


Quote
Voyage | Night - Duration | $4
If the previous turn wasn't yours, then take an extra turn after this one. At the start of each of your turns for the rest of the game: gain a Copper.
(This stays in play.)
-
This is gained to your hand (instead of your discard pile)

Each one you gain ends up junking your deck more and more. Maybe you can handle a copper a turn, especially towards the end of the game. Not too many decks can handle gaining 5 coppers each turn.

Trash in play essentially a multi-use seize the day and I'm okay with that.

Voyage/Gardens would likely be a very strong combo, sounds fun... :D

BTW, is Voyage discarded when the Copper pile is empty?

Is Hireling discarded when your deck+discard is empty at start of turn? It's possible you could gain cards such that Hireling may draw you a card later. Therefore, Hireling stays in play. This would follow the same rules. Through ambassador, it's possible that in the future Coppers could get added to the supply, so it makes sense Voyage would stay in play, even when Coppers are empty.


Quote
Voyage | Night - Duration | $4
If the previous turn wasn't yours, then take an extra turn after this one. At the start of each of your turns for the rest of the game: gain a Copper.
(This stays in play.)
-
This is gained to your hand (instead of your discard pile)

Each one you gain ends up junking your deck more and more. Maybe you can handle a copper a turn, especially towards the end of the game. Not too many decks can handle gaining 5 coppers each turn.

Trash in play essentially a multi-use seize the day and I'm okay with that.

I feel like it could cost more.  You probably won’t be buying this early in the game anyway.  Late in the game, the junking probably isn’t too detrimental and this would almost be like Seize the Day without the once per game limitation.

Thanks for your feedback. I agree it could cost more. It can also cost 4 and isn't broken as such. I think enabling buying it earlier at 4 is more interesting because buying it earlier makes the drawback a lot bigger. This was specifically priced the same as Seize the Day for that comparison -- often you only want to buy Voyager once. At $4 it competes with Seize the day, and sometimes you can make a use of those extra coppers. Often it's strictly worse than Seize the Day though. I think $4 works for this, and I do like giving $4-cost gainers the ability to gain it. Donald X has previously stated that he likes to make card as cheap as they can be to still work with other cards. I think $4 works perfectly fine here.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2021, 01:43:57 pm by anordinaryman »
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DunnoItAll

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #55 on: April 05, 2021, 01:58:43 pm »
+1

My entry is the Snoop. A cross between Spy and City Gate. Better than Spy because it's permanent and better than City Gate because it has potential to stack.

Originally, it was simply look at the top card and put it back or discard it. This stacks only when you discard. As soon as you choose to put it back, your next Snoop is looking at the same card again. The idea of giving the chance to put the card on the bottom of your deck is to let you look at the next card down without discarding the looked at card. Maybe you could even go back and get it with a Pearl Diver!



updated to add "for the rest of the game"
« Last Edit: April 06, 2021, 06:21:12 am by DunnoItAll »
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Lackar

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #56 on: April 05, 2021, 04:32:39 pm »
0

Here is my submission


Feedback welcome

Updated entry
« Last Edit: April 09, 2021, 10:16:11 am by Lackar »
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mxdata

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #57 on: April 05, 2021, 05:14:19 pm »
0

Here is my submission

Feedback welcome

Seems a bit weak.  Especially if there's other trashing in the kingdom.  In the long run, it would end up flooding your deck with Silvers and Coppers (the Coppers self-limiting, granted).  It would also work poorly with discard attacks.  Discard attacks would make it almost a guaranteed Copper-gainer, since you're probably not going to want to keep 2 Coppers in hand after discarding down.  And even in a kingdom with no trashing and no discard attacks, you'd never want to buy more than one of these (2 in play would nearly guarantee that you gain a Copper, unless you started with a hand that had 4 Coppers), so I'd think that, even in those kingdoms where it would work, it would be better suited as a Project
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #58 on: April 05, 2021, 07:30:34 pm »
0

Here is my submission

Feedback welcome
I assume the +card, action, buy are for the turn you play it, then the rest is each turn for the rest of the game. Check Hireling or Champion for wording to make it more clear.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #59 on: April 05, 2021, 07:40:03 pm »
0

Gentleman
cost $5 - Action - Attack - Duration
At the start of each of your turns for the rest of the game: gain a Silver to your hand, and each other player gains a Copper to their hand.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #60 on: April 05, 2021, 08:56:18 pm »
+1

Here is my submission

Feedback welcome

I think this does need to say "At the start of each of your turns for the rest of the game" like hireling. As it is written, (if it didn't have the parenthetical) then the copper effect would never activate. A duration card only stays out for as long as the effect on the card instructs it to, and the turn you play it, the start of turn has already passed.
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mxdata

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #61 on: April 05, 2021, 10:58:06 pm »
0

Gentleman
cost $5 - Action - Attack - Duration
At the start of each of your turns for the rest of the game: gain a Silver to your hand, and each other player gains a Copper to their hand.

Gaining to hand for both effects would make this work really weird in multiplayer.  Imagine four players each with just one 1 Gentleman in play (including yourself), and assuming no discard attacks - you'd start each turn with a total of 9 cards in hand, including 3 Coppers and a Silver, effectively starting each turn with +$5!  Maybe drop the "to their hand" part for the Copper?  Or limiting it with "Each other player with 5 or fewer cards in their hand ..."?
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Timinou

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #62 on: April 05, 2021, 11:41:16 pm »
+2

EDIT: Revised text



Quote from: Elvenworks
$5 - Night-Duration
For the rest of the game, if you have no Treasures in play at the start of your Night phase, +1VP and gain a card costing up to $4.
(This stays in play.)

Elvenworks is basically like Alms with alt-VP.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2021, 08:57:47 am by Timinou »
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mathdude

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #63 on: April 06, 2021, 12:42:56 am »
0



Quote from: Elvenworks
$5 - Night-Duration
If you have no Treasures in play, +1VP and gain a card costing up to $4.
(This stays in play.)

Elvenworks is basically like Alms with alt-VP.

It stays in play.  But what occurs each turn?  What does it check for, and when?  Start of turn?  Start of Night Phase?
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Timinou

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #64 on: April 06, 2021, 12:49:00 am »
0



Quote from: Elvenworks
$5 - Night-Duration
If you have no Treasures in play, +1VP and gain a card costing up to $4.
(This stays in play.)

Elvenworks is basically like Alms with alt-VP.

It stays in play.  But what occurs each turn?  What does it check for, and when?  Start of turn?  Start of Night Phase?

It activates during the Night phase.  I'll clarify that in the card text.
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Lackar

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #65 on: April 06, 2021, 11:24:08 am »
+2

Here is my submission

Feedback welcome

I think this does need to say "At the start of each of your turns for the rest of the game" like hireling. As it is written, (if it didn't have the parenthetical) then the copper effect would never activate. A duration card only stays out for as long as the effect on the card instructs it to, and the turn you play it, the start of turn has already passed.
How does this look?

+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
At the start of each of your turns for the rest of the game, you may trash 2 Coppers to gain a Silver or trash 2 silvers to gain a gold to your hand
(This stays in Play)
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gambit05

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #66 on: April 06, 2021, 03:53:03 pm »
+2


My Submission:


Poet
$5 – Action – Duration
Quote

At the start of Clean-up
of each of your turns for
              the rest of the game: Exile               
a card from your hand. If
you can’t, gain a Curse.

(This stays in play.)


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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #67 on: April 06, 2021, 05:09:01 pm »
+3

My submission:


Quote from: Almoner
ALMONER -- $4
ACTION - DURATION - VICTORY
At the start of each of your turns for the rest
of the game, trash a card from your hand.
(This stays in play.)

Worth 1VP plus 1VP per Almoner
you have in play.

Works like Cathedral (although not quite as good, because it doesn't take effect until you've drawn and played it). It costs more because it doubles as Alt-VP. With one in play, it's 2VP for $4, which is not terrible, but not great. If you can time things correctly and play a second one just as the game ends, they go up to 3VP each, and you've been buying Duchies at $4. That timing could be a risky proposition, as you risk both getting snipped on one hand and taking multiple turns late in the game where you have to trash 2 cards on the other. There may even be an odd Kingdom were you would want two of these in play for an extended period of time, but that would usually be pretty rough.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #68 on: April 07, 2021, 04:42:42 am »
+2



I didn't manage to get the tool to write 'this stays in play' in italics. I assume it's supposed to happen automatically, but it didn't. :)

Stupid question, but does this mean that if i, say, have drawn my entire deck and then gain a silver to discard and then draw a card, that i get +1 Coffers? And that one could do this multiple times?
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #69 on: April 07, 2021, 05:29:56 am »
0



Haven and Sacrafice had a baby, and it became this!

Edit: Wording changes per Shaels and Annie administrator suggestion


Edit 2: Wording changes to make it clearer.


Thinking of c hanging my Submission this week, people don't seem that interested in this one
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #70 on: April 07, 2021, 05:54:10 am »
+1



Haven and Sacrafice had a baby, and it became this!

Edit: Wording changes per Shaels and Annie administrator suggestion


Edit 2: Wording changes to make it clearer.


Thinking of c hanging my Submission this week, people don't seem that interested in this one

Are you aware that exchanging by default means that the exchanged card is put to the discard pile (and the other one usually back to its pile)? Also, it is not clear to me which of the 2 exchanged cards gives the bonus. Aside of that, quite a lot of text (or at least a lot of lines).
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #71 on: April 07, 2021, 06:07:23 am »
+1



Haven and Sacrafice had a baby, and it became this!

Edit: Wording changes per Shaels and Annie administrator suggestion


Edit 2: Wording changes to make it clearer.


Thinking of c hanging my Submission this week, people don't seem that interested in this one

Are you aware that exchanging by default means that the exchanged card is put to the discard pile (and the other one usually back to its pile)? Also, it is not clear to me which of the 2 exchanged cards gives the bonus. Aside of that, quite a lot of text (or at least a lot of lines).

Its supposed to be that the card you put under Chamber is the one that gives a bonus . i don't really understand the first point you mnade
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gambit05

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #72 on: April 07, 2021, 06:17:46 am »
+1


Are you aware that exchanging by default means that the exchanged card is put to the discard pile (and the other one usually back to its pile)? Also, it is not clear to me which of the 2 exchanged cards gives the bonus. Aside of that, quite a lot of text (or at least a lot of lines).

Its supposed to be that the card you put under Chamber is the one that gives a bonus . i don't really understand the first point you mnade

Here are the rules about exchange from the wiki.

So, if you follow the official rules, using the term exchange, the card from hand would go back to its pile and the other one would go to the discard pile, or maybe the other way around, I am not sure, as in your case you "exchange" 2 cards that both already belong to the player. Anyway, is that your intention, or if not what is it?

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Shael

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #73 on: April 07, 2021, 06:29:25 am »
0

Here is my submission

Feedback welcome
I think it need to say "for the rest of the game".
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #74 on: April 07, 2021, 06:35:34 am »
+3

Malaise
Action/Duration - $3
Gain a card from the Trash.
For the rest of the game, at the start of each of your turns, trash an Action card from the supply. (This stays in play)
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #75 on: April 07, 2021, 08:26:24 am »
+1



I didn't manage to get the tool to write 'this stays in play' in italics. I assume it's supposed to happen automatically, but it didn't. :)

Stupid question, but does this mean that if i, say, have drawn my entire deck and then gain a silver to discard and then draw a card, that i get +1 Coffers? And that one could do this multiple times?

yup

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #76 on: April 07, 2021, 09:28:45 am »
+1


Are you aware that exchanging by default means that the exchanged card is put to the discard pile (and the other one usually back to its pile)? Also, it is not clear to me which of the 2 exchanged cards gives the bonus. Aside of that, quite a lot of text (or at least a lot of lines).

Its supposed to be that the card you put under Chamber is the one that gives a bonus . i don't really understand the first point you mnade

Here are the rules about exchange from the wiki.

So, if you follow the official rules, using the term exchange, the card from hand would go back to its pile and the other one would go to the discard pile, or maybe the other way around, I am not sure, as in your case you "exchange" 2 cards that both already belong to the player. Anyway, is that your intention, or if not what is it?

Ummm. I don't know and I'm confused right now. sorry.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #77 on: April 07, 2021, 09:46:57 am »
0


Are you aware that exchanging by default means that the exchanged card is put to the discard pile (and the other one usually back to its pile)? Also, it is not clear to me which of the 2 exchanged cards gives the bonus. Aside of that, quite a lot of text (or at least a lot of lines).

Its supposed to be that the card you put under Chamber is the one that gives a bonus . i don't really understand the first point you mnade

Here are the rules about exchange from the wiki.

So, if you follow the official rules, using the term exchange, the card from hand would go back to its pile and the other one would go to the discard pile, or maybe the other way around, I am not sure, as in your case you "exchange" 2 cards that both already belong to the player. Anyway, is that your intention, or if not what is it?

Ummm. I don't know and I'm confused right now. sorry.

Too much fika?

My guess is that you want to replace the set-aside card with one from your hand. A few days ago I commented on another card with a long text and a similar "exchange" mechanic and suggested to introduce the keyword "replace", which can be explained in an accompanying note. It would make it much simpler and less wordy. I haven't heard back from the other user, so don't know what happened there (too lazy to look back right now).

If you do not want to use "replace", you should avoid "exchange" as that describes a different mechanic. So you could word it like:

…put it into your hand and set aside a different* card from your hand face up (on this**). If it is…

* If it is your intention that it has to be different.
** When the card is face up, it doesn't make sense to hide it under the Chamber. Better is on it (see Cargo Ship).

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Lackar

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #78 on: April 07, 2021, 10:05:31 am »
0

Here is my submission

Feedback welcome
I think it need to say "for the rest of the game".

Updated original entry now does
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
At the start of each of your turns for the rest of the game, you may trash 2 Coppers to gain a Silver or trash 2 silvers to gain a gold. These are gained to your hand
(This stays in Play)
« Last Edit: April 07, 2021, 02:15:36 pm by Lackar »
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grep

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #79 on: April 07, 2021, 11:50:18 am »
0

Updated original entry now does
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
At the start of each of your turns for the rest of the game, you may trash 2 Coppers to gain a Silver or trash 2 silvers to gain a gold to your hand
(This stays in Play)
Is the Silver going to the hand as well? It is not obvious from the text.
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Lackar

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #80 on: April 07, 2021, 02:16:10 pm »
0

Updated original entry now does
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
At the start of each of your turns for the rest of the game, you may trash 2 Coppers to gain a Silver or trash 2 silvers to gain a gold to your hand
(This stays in Play)
Is the Silver going to the hand as well? It is not obvious from the text.

to your hand for both.
Changed the text above.
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segura

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #81 on: April 07, 2021, 02:31:17 pm »
+1

Malaise
Action/Duration - $3
Gain a card from the Trash.
For the rest of the game, at the start of each of your turns, trash an Action card from the supply. (This stays in play)
This looks like a weird auto-three-pile, Lurker, Feast thingy.
Three-pile is obvious, Lurker because there are positive externalities, Feast because it is a one shot that is cheaper than Feast yet slightly better (except for the first copy that is played).
If it were not for the crazy fast piling this would be an interesting card.
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mandioca15

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #82 on: April 07, 2021, 02:39:04 pm »
0

Magnate (Action-Duration, $5)

At the start of each of your turns, if you have no Debt tokens, +2 Cards, +1 Buy and take two Debt tokens.
(This remains in play.)

A perma-Wharf that only functions if you can keep on top of your Debt.
Is it intentional that you only ever want to play one of these? Because it seems in that case it would make more sense as a Project.

Would it work better if it always gave you the draw, buy and Debt tokens, regardless of if you have Debt?
Maybe? I think I like the balance with it only giving draw if you have no Debt, so it's not too bonkers with no-buy engines. But it would be good if they could still be stacked. Not sure there's a good wording for it. A somewhat awkward solution would be

"At the start of each of your turns, if you have no Debt tokens, +2 Cards, +1 Buy and put two Debt tokens on this. At the start of your Buy phase, take the Debt from here."

Thanks for the suggestion! I will amend my entry to the following:

Magnate (Action-Duration, $5)

At the start of each of your turns, if you have no Debt tokens, +2 Cards, +1 Buy and set aside two Debt tokens. At the start of your Buy phase, take all Debt tokens set aside by this.
(This remains in play.)
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emtzalex

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #83 on: April 07, 2021, 03:55:05 pm »
+1

Here is my submission

Feedback welcome
I think it need to say "for the rest of the game".

Updated original entry now does
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
At the start of each of your turns for the rest of the game, you may trash 2 Coppers to gain a Silver or trash 2 silvers to gain a gold. These are gained to your hand
(This stays in Play)

Very cool idea for a submission. Per your request, here is some feedback, both technical/copy editing and substantive:

The card type (at the bottom) should be "Action - Duration" not just Action.

The phrase "This stays in play" should have a period at the end, inside of the parentheses, and the P in play should be lower case (see Hireling).

In the text ("trash 2 silvers to gain a gold"), the words "silvers" and "gold" should be capitalized. Also, it needs to specify that the 2 Coppers or 2 Silvers are being trashed from your hand (see Mine, Moneylender).

I think the last sentence ("These are gained to your hand") is a bit ambiguous, and the total text would not be longer if you added "to your hand" after both "gain a Silver" and "gain a Gold". If you are going to leave it as is, it needs a period.

Substantively, I think the card might be too powerful. The Copper to Silver swap is a no-brainer, and accomplishes something that's an incredibly important thing to do (getting rid of your Coppers) any cost to any turn. Usually, the turn on which you trash an item is somehow lessened by the trashing. The Silver-to-Gold has some cost, since the value goes from $2 to $3, but given that it is an option every time you have two Silvers in hand for the rest of the game, it's still an incredibly useful tool.

At the very least, I would suggest getting rid of the Vanilla bonuses (+Card/Action/Buy). If you are getting a bonus for the rest of the game, it is not at all unreasonable to make you use a terminal action on one turn to do it. Plus, they're taking up half the cards space and shrinking your text way down (which is going to get even smaller when you add "from your hand" twice).

Hope that was clear/helpful.
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Lackar

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #84 on: April 08, 2021, 09:51:25 am »
0

Here is my submission

Feedback welcome
I think it need to say "for the rest of the game".

Updated original entry now does
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
At the start of each of your turns for the rest of the game, you may trash 2 Coppers to gain a Silver or trash 2 silvers to gain a gold. These are gained to your hand
(This stays in Play)

Very cool idea for a submission. Per your request, here is some feedback, both technical/copy editing and substantive:

The card type (at the bottom) should be "Action - Duration" not just Action.

The phrase "This stays in play" should have a period at the end, inside of the parentheses, and the P in play should be lower case (see Hireling).

In the text ("trash 2 silvers to gain a gold"), the words "silvers" and "gold" should be capitalized. Also, it needs to specify that the 2 Coppers or 2 Silvers are being trashed from your hand (see Mine, Moneylender).

I think the last sentence ("These are gained to your hand") is a bit ambiguous, and the total text would not be longer if you added "to your hand" after both "gain a Silver" and "gain a Gold". If you are going to leave it as is, it needs a period.

Substantively, I think the card might be too powerful. The Copper to Silver swap is a no-brainer, and accomplishes something that's an incredibly important thing to do (getting rid of your Coppers) any cost to any turn. Usually, the turn on which you trash an item is somehow lessened by the trashing. The Silver-to-Gold has some cost, since the value goes from $2 to $3, but given that it is an option every time you have two Silvers in hand for the rest of the game, it's still an incredibly useful tool.

At the very least, I would suggest getting rid of the Vanilla bonuses (+Card/Action/Buy). If you are getting a bonus for the rest of the game, it is not at all unreasonable to make you use a terminal action on one turn to do it. Plus, they're taking up half the cards space and shrinking your text way down (which is going to get even smaller when you add "from your hand" twice).

Hope that was clear/helpful.

A lot of what you said makes sense and the corrections. Seems what I want to do is going to make too much text on the card. this one kinda does the same purpose
Lets see how this looks



Corrected some spelling
« Last Edit: April 08, 2021, 05:18:12 pm by Lackar »
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fika monster

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #85 on: April 08, 2021, 01:22:26 pm »
+1

New entry, wansnt happy with the earlier entry



A mixture of Prince and captain, with a bit of thinning.

Edit 1:

Wording fixes. (thanks CRLUNDY and S-SMARTS for pointing out loops and such.)


Edit 2: Segura thought it was too strong, so i nerfed collector: now the player to your left chooses what card you play with Collector. You may then trash the card that was played with collector


Edit 3: further nerfs, and increased cost


This is not really related to the card itself, but lately I've been frustrated with my cards for WDC: It feels like they are of bad quality, and that i have trouble getting inspired/make interesting cards, and that people don't think they are interesting. I know this is pretty self-absorbed, but I'm wondering if people think i have some positive influence here? It doesn't have to be big.

I am switching antideppresants, so it may just be mood disturbances from that.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2021, 01:32:50 pm by fika monster »
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silverspawn

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #86 on: April 08, 2021, 02:04:53 pm »
+3

Isn't this strictly stronger than Prince?

mxdata

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #87 on: April 08, 2021, 02:41:53 pm »
+1

New entry, wansnt happy with the earlier entry



A mixture of Prince and captain, with a bit of thinning.

Edit 1:

Wording fixes. (thanks CRLUNDY and S-SMARTS for pointing out loops and such.)


Seems like Prince on steroids.  There's no cost limitation to what it can play, it doesn't require to you to line up cards, you're not locked into the same card every time, *plus* you get to actually play the card you're Collecting on the turn you Collect it, *and* it allows you to get all your Coppers out of your deck (EDIT: I didn't notice that your revision changed it to one card in play, that would limit the Copper-thinning significantly).  Also, the way it's written, there doesn't seem to be anything preventing you from playing the same card with multiple Collectors
« Last Edit: April 08, 2021, 02:43:21 pm by mxdata »
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fika monster

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #88 on: April 08, 2021, 02:44:29 pm »
0

Isn't this strictly stronger than Prince?

Yes, but i think prince is way too weak tbh
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segura

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #89 on: April 08, 2021, 02:52:28 pm »
+2

Isn't this strictly stronger than Prince?

Yes, but i think prince is way too weak tbh
Well, it surely is not as automatic as Citadel (which is a Princed Throne Room) and wrong in a significant faction of Kingdoms. But it is not weak and I think that it is a far better design than some of those expensive Projects.

On a sidenote, do you also think that Hireling is weak? If you compare your card with Hireling it should become obvious that Collector is far too strong.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2021, 02:54:05 pm by segura »
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #90 on: April 08, 2021, 03:08:47 pm »
0

Isn't this strictly stronger than Prince?

Yes, but i think prince is way too weak tbh
Well, it surely is not as automatic as Citadel (which is a Princed Throne Room) and wrong in a significant faction of Kingdoms. But it is not weak and I think that it is a far better design than some of those expensive Projects.

On a sidenote, do you also think that Hireling is weak? If you compare your card with Hireling it should become obvious that Collector is far too strong.

Hmmm. i think hireling is a weak 6, but it would be far to strong as a 5, because then a player that opens 5 would get +1 card for the rest of the game on like turn 4

Ill think about Collectors power level. First thing that comes to mind is adding a Money limit to what can be played
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segura

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #91 on: April 08, 2021, 03:24:08 pm »
+1

Sure, but then it will still be stronger than Prince. Of course you can Exile too much with too many Collectors in play. But if you manage it wisely, the benefit of Exiling stuff and the flexibility this has relative to Prince dominate the „over-Exiling“ downsides.
So you either gotta make it more expensive than $8, which might be a dubious price range, or nerf it further.
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Timinou

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #92 on: April 08, 2021, 04:00:07 pm »
+2

Isn't this strictly stronger than Prince?

Yes, but i think prince is way too weak tbh
Well, it surely is not as automatic as Citadel (which is a Princed Throne Room) and wrong in a significant faction of Kingdoms. But it is not weak and I think that it is a far better design than some of those expensive Projects.

On a sidenote, do you also think that Hireling is weak? If you compare your card with Hireling it should become obvious that Collector is far too strong.

Hmmm. i think hireling is a weak 6, but it would be far to strong as a 5, because then a player that opens 5 would get +1 card for the rest of the game on like turn 4

Ill think about Collectors power level. First thing that comes to mind is adding a Money limit to what can be played

Maybe Exile only in the turn that you gain Collector, rather than at each turn? 

Or alternatively, force it to Exile an Action card during Clean-up so that it doesn't have the additional benefit of thinning Coppers. 
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #93 on: April 09, 2021, 03:58:13 am »
+4

Isn't this strictly stronger than Prince?

Yes, but i think prince is way too weak tbh
Well, it surely is not as automatic as Citadel (which is a Princed Throne Room) and wrong in a significant faction of Kingdoms. But it is not weak and I think that it is a far better design than some of those expensive Projects.

On a sidenote, do you also think that Hireling is weak? If you compare your card with Hireling it should become obvious that Collector is far too strong.
It's worth noting that Citadel is significantly weaker than Princed Throne Room because you usually don't want to use it on terminals. The fact that you are more or less forced to Throne a cantrip when playing Citadel is a major downside (it's still pretty strong though). A Princed Throne Room is Citadel+Barracks.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2021, 03:59:47 am by faust »
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mxdata

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #94 on: April 09, 2021, 05:09:02 am »
0

Here is my submission

Feedback welcome
I think it need to say "for the rest of the game".

Updated original entry now does
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
At the start of each of your turns for the rest of the game, you may trash 2 Coppers to gain a Silver or trash 2 silvers to gain a gold. These are gained to your hand
(This stays in Play)

Very cool idea for a submission. Per your request, here is some feedback, both technical/copy editing and substantive:

The card type (at the bottom) should be "Action - Duration" not just Action.

The phrase "This stays in play" should have a period at the end, inside of the parentheses, and the P in play should be lower case (see Hireling).

In the text ("trash 2 silvers to gain a gold"), the words "silvers" and "gold" should be capitalized. Also, it needs to specify that the 2 Coppers or 2 Silvers are being trashed from your hand (see Mine, Moneylender).

I think the last sentence ("These are gained to your hand") is a bit ambiguous, and the total text would not be longer if you added "to your hand" after both "gain a Silver" and "gain a Gold". If you are going to leave it as is, it needs a period.

Substantively, I think the card might be too powerful. The Copper to Silver swap is a no-brainer, and accomplishes something that's an incredibly important thing to do (getting rid of your Coppers) any cost to any turn. Usually, the turn on which you trash an item is somehow lessened by the trashing. The Silver-to-Gold has some cost, since the value goes from $2 to $3, but given that it is an option every time you have two Silvers in hand for the rest of the game, it's still an incredibly useful tool.

At the very least, I would suggest getting rid of the Vanilla bonuses (+Card/Action/Buy). If you are getting a bonus for the rest of the game, it is not at all unreasonable to make you use a terminal action on one turn to do it. Plus, they're taking up half the cards space and shrinking your text way down (which is going to get even smaller when you add "from your hand" twice).

Hope that was clear/helpful.

A lot of what you said makes sense and the corrections. Seems what I want to do is going to make too much text on the card. this one kinda does the same purpose
Lets see how this looks



Corrected some spelling

Just the first letter in Copper, Silver, and Gold should be capitalized, not the whole word

Also, is it intentional that this new version does not gain to hand?
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Holger

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #95 on: April 09, 2021, 05:47:14 am »
+1

New entry, wansnt happy with the earlier entry



A mixture of Prince and captain, with a bit of thinning.

Edit 1:

Wording fixes. (thanks CRLUNDY and S-SMARTS for pointing out loops and such.)


Edit 2: Segura thought it was too strong, so i nerfed collector: now the player to your left chooses what card you play with Collector. You may then trash the card that was played with collector


This version is still strictly better than Prince by a lot (at least the first copy), unless some other card forces you to Exile cards: You can just keep a single card in Exile, giving the other player no choice. Even without the extra trashing option, this should cost more than Prince.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #96 on: April 09, 2021, 06:51:43 am »
+1

It's too strong, but forcing your opponent to choose the card makes it more interesting. Now it's not just a stronger Prince.

I think the obvious fix is to make your opponent choose what to Exile as well.

mathdude

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #97 on: April 09, 2021, 07:38:04 am »
+3

I've been trying not to chime in much here, since I'm judging (other than to comment when an entry is not valid). But I think I'll add a couple comments.

I like that the community gives feedback on submissions (and I do it too when I'm not judging). Wording changes, either making it more elegant/simple or making it similar to existing standards is very helpful.

And raising an issue with balance, looping, or even cost (specifically when it's strictly greater or worse than an existing card) - those are great for fine-tuning a design. But the constant back-and-forth, telling someone to change just about every part of their card... I feel like now I'll be judging a community submission, not that person's design (also, all those comments clutter up the submissions part of the thread).

 I think it's okay to let the judging address some card issues. Posting ways to improve a card can be done after a contest is complete.

That being said, I will still provide a couple comments/questions about 1 or 2 submissions...

It's too strong, but forcing your opponent to choose the card makes it more interesting. Now it's not just a stronger Prince.

I think the obvious fix is to make your opponent choose what to Exile as well.

I think it's up to the original card designer whether the person playing it or the person to left chooses what to exile, but either could work, depending on the card cost.

Also, I think the card itself still needs some clarity... is the exile happening only on the turn the card is played (then put that paragraph first) or on every turn (then state "at the start of every clean up phase" for it)? Again, I think either could work, depending on cost... but also, this choice may help decide who chooses what to exile.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2021, 07:40:02 am by mathdude »
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gambit05

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #98 on: April 09, 2021, 09:16:21 am »
0

I feel like now I'll be judging a community submission, not that person's design (also, all those comments clutter up the submissions part of the thread).

Although I agree with what you wrote, there is an issue with that anyway. People get totally different levels of help. Some present cards from scratch, some recycle some old ideas, having some feedback already on older versions, and some get a lot of help outside this thread anyway.

I think, we have to live with the fact that users have unequal chances to present a good or excellent card or even win the contest. If the priorities are to produce good cards, improve our design skills, communicate and discuss, and have fun, then everything should be okay; in my opinion at least.
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Lackar

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #99 on: April 09, 2021, 09:42:55 am »
0

Here is my submission

Feedback welcome
I think it need to say "for the rest of the game".

Updated original entry now does
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
At the start of each of your turns for the rest of the game, you may trash 2 Coppers to gain a Silver or trash 2 silvers to gain a gold. These are gained to your hand
(This stays in Play)

Very cool idea for a submission. Per your request, here is some feedback, both technical/copy editing and substantive:

The card type (at the bottom) should be "Action - Duration" not just Action.

The phrase "This stays in play" should have a period at the end, inside of the parentheses, and the P in play should be lower case (see Hireling).

In the text ("trash 2 silvers to gain a gold"), the words "silvers" and "gold" should be capitalized. Also, it needs to specify that the 2 Coppers or 2 Silvers are being trashed from your hand (see Mine, Moneylender).

I think the last sentence ("These are gained to your hand") is a bit ambiguous, and the total text would not be longer if you added "to your hand" after both "gain a Silver" and "gain a Gold". If you are going to leave it as is, it needs a period.

Substantively, I think the card might be too powerful. The Copper to Silver swap is a no-brainer, and accomplishes something that's an incredibly important thing to do (getting rid of your Coppers) any cost to any turn. Usually, the turn on which you trash an item is somehow lessened by the trashing. The Silver-to-Gold has some cost, since the value goes from $2 to $3, but given that it is an option every time you have two Silvers in hand for the rest of the game, it's still an incredibly useful tool.

At the very least, I would suggest getting rid of the Vanilla bonuses (+Card/Action/Buy). If you are getting a bonus for the rest of the game, it is not at all unreasonable to make you use a terminal action on one turn to do it. Plus, they're taking up half the cards space and shrinking your text way down (which is going to get even smaller when you add "from your hand" twice).

Hope that was clear/helpful.

A lot of what you said makes sense and the corrections. Seems what I want to do is going to make too much text on the card. this one kinda does the same purpose
Lets see how this looks



Corrected some spelling

Just the first letter in Copper, Silver, and Gold should be capitalized, not the whole word

Also, is it intentional that this new version does not gain to hand?

Yes as it made the text too long as I had to add it to both Silvers and Gold. It still feels too wordy as it is now.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #100 on: April 09, 2021, 09:53:52 am »
0


Maybe try "start of Clean-up" combined with "in play", e.g.:

"At the start of Clean-up of each of your turns for the rest of the game: You may trash 2 Coppers or 2 Silvers you have in play to gain a Silver or a Gold, respectively."

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Lackar

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #101 on: April 09, 2021, 09:59:45 am »
0

Here is my submission

Feedback welcome
I think it need to say "for the rest of the game".

Updated original entry now does
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
At the start of each of your turns for the rest of the game, you may trash 2 Coppers to gain a Silver or trash 2 silvers to gain a gold. These are gained to your hand
(This stays in Play)

Very cool idea for a submission. Per your request, here is some feedback, both technical/copy editing and substantive:

The card type (at the bottom) should be "Action - Duration" not just Action.

The phrase "This stays in play" should have a period at the end, inside of the parentheses, and the P in play should be lower case (see Hireling).

In the text ("trash 2 silvers to gain a gold"), the words "silvers" and "gold" should be capitalized. Also, it needs to specify that the 2 Coppers or 2 Silvers are being trashed from your hand (see Mine, Moneylender).

I think the last sentence ("These are gained to your hand") is a bit ambiguous, and the total text would not be longer if you added "to your hand" after both "gain a Silver" and "gain a Gold". If you are going to leave it as is, it needs a period.

Substantively, I think the card might be too powerful. The Copper to Silver swap is a no-brainer, and accomplishes something that's an incredibly important thing to do (getting rid of your Coppers) any cost to any turn. Usually, the turn on which you trash an item is somehow lessened by the trashing. The Silver-to-Gold has some cost, since the value goes from $2 to $3, but given that it is an option every time you have two Silvers in hand for the rest of the game, it's still an incredibly useful tool.

At the very least, I would suggest getting rid of the Vanilla bonuses (+Card/Action/Buy). If you are getting a bonus for the rest of the game, it is not at all unreasonable to make you use a terminal action on one turn to do it. Plus, they're taking up half the cards space and shrinking your text way down (which is going to get even smaller when you add "from your hand" twice).

Hope that was clear/helpful.

A lot of what you said makes sense and the corrections. Seems what I want to do is going to make too much text on the card. this one kinda does the same purpose
Lets see how this looks



Corrected some spelling

Just the first letter in Copper, Silver, and Gold should be capitalized, not the whole word

Also, is it intentional that this new version does not gain to hand?


Yes as it made the text too long as I had to add it to both Silvers and Gold. It still feels too wordy as it is now.
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Gubump

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #102 on: April 09, 2021, 12:34:42 pm »
+1

New entry, wansnt happy with the earlier entry



A mixture of Prince and captain, with a bit of thinning.

Edit 1:

Wording fixes. (thanks CRLUNDY and S-SMARTS for pointing out loops and such.)


Edit 2: Segura thought it was too strong, so i nerfed collector: now the player to your left chooses what card you play with Collector. You may then trash the card that was played with collector


This version is still strictly better than Prince by a lot (at least the first copy), unless some other card forces you to Exile cards: You can just keep a single card in Exile, giving the other player no choice. Even without the extra trashing option, this should cost more than Prince.

You leave the played card in Exile and have to Exile a card from play every turn. Unless you plan to play just one card per turn, you can't "just keep a single card in Exile, giving the other player no choice."
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #103 on: April 09, 2021, 12:50:24 pm »
+3

23 hour, 10 minute-ish warning

Submissions will be accepted up to the time that I post "Submissions Closed", which will be around (though not before) noon tomorrow.

Submissions so far:



Quote
Lithograph - Action Duration, $5 cost.
Gain 3 Silvers.
At the start of each of your turns for the rest of the game, you may trash a Silver from your hand for +2 Cards, +1 Buy and + $2.
(This stays in play.)

Magnate (Action-Duration, $5)
At the start of each of your turns, if you have no Debt tokens, +2 Cards, +1 Buy and set aside two Debt tokens. At the start of your Buy phase, take all Debt tokens set aside by this.
(This remains in play.)






Harlequin
$5 - Action - Duration
At start of each of your turns for the rest of the game:
You may discard your hand for +4 Cards.
(This stays in play)




Quote
Mummer's Farce
Night/Duration - $5
+5 Villagers
+5 Coffers
At the start of each of your turns for the rest of the game, lose a Villager or Coffers.
(This stays in play.)



Alchemical Factory
$6
Action - Duration
At the start of your turn, you may trash a card from your hand. If you do, you may gain a differently-named card to your hand, costing up to $1 more than it.
(This stays in play)


Quote
Salt Mine • $5 • Action - Duration
At the start of your turn, trash the top card of your deck. You may gain a copy of the trashed card.
(This stays in play)


Quote
Voyage | Night - Duration | $4
If this is the first time you played a Voyage this turn, and the previous turn wasn't yours, then take an extra turn after this one. At the start of each of your turns for the rest of the game: gain a Copper.
(This stays in play.)
-
This is gained to your hand (instead of your discard pile)

Orrery:





Quote
Voyage | Night - Duration | $4
If this is the first time you played a Voyage this turn, and the previous turn wasn't yours, then take an extra turn after this one. At the start of each of your turns for the rest of the game: gain a Copper.
(This stays in play.)
-
This is gained to your hand (instead of your discard pile)





Gentleman
cost $5 - Action - Attack - Duration
At the start of each of your turns for the rest of the game: gain a Silver to your hand, and each other player gains a Copper to their hand.


Quote from: Elvenworks
$5 - Night-Duration
For the rest of the game, if you have no Treasures in play at the start of your Night phase, +1VP and gain a card costing up to $4.
(This stays in play.)


Poet
$5 – Action – Duration
Quote
At the start of Clean-up of each of your turns for the rest of the game: Exile a card from your hand. If you can’t, gain a Curse.
(This stays in play.)

My submission:

Quote from: Almoner
ALMONER -- $4
ACTION - DURATION - VICTORY
At the start of each of your turns for the rest of the game, trash a card from your hand.
(This stays in play.)

Worth 1VP plus 1VP per Almoner
you have in play.

Malaise
Action/Duration - $3
Gain a card from the Trash.
For the rest of the game, at the start of each of your turns, trash an Action card from the supply. (This stays in play)



Please let me know if I missed any submissions.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #104 on: April 09, 2021, 01:33:08 pm »
+1

Updated Collector 1 last time
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #105 on: April 09, 2021, 01:54:28 pm »
+2

I think it's okay to let the judging address some card issues. Posting ways to improve a card can be done after a contest is complete.
Dude, demanding that a discussion shall be silenced or postponed ain't cool.
The point of the contests is not so much the judgement and who wins (that is just the framework) but the general discussion about card ideas. It is great when people take a lot of effort when they judge the cards but it is not like that is the only feedback that is useful for the card designers.

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #106 on: April 09, 2021, 02:06:29 pm »
0

New entry, wansnt happy with the earlier entry



A mixture of Prince and captain, with a bit of thinning.

Edit 1:

Wording fixes. (thanks CRLUNDY and S-SMARTS for pointing out loops and such.)


Edit 2: Segura thought it was too strong, so i nerfed collector: now the player to your left chooses what card you play with Collector. You may then trash the card that was played with collector


This version is still strictly better than Prince by a lot (at least the first copy), unless some other card forces you to Exile cards: You can just keep a single card in Exile, giving the other player no choice. Even without the extra trashing option, this should cost more than Prince.

You leave the played card in Exile and have to Exile a card from play every turn. Unless you plan to play just one card per turn, you can't "just keep a single card in Exile, giving the other player no choice."

Oh, you're right, I  missed the "leaving it there" part. So assuming the Exiling during clean-up is supposed to happen every turn, I retract my above post - this version of Collector is significantly different from Prince in an interesting way, and no longer strictly better.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #107 on: April 09, 2021, 02:11:42 pm »
+1

Updated Collector 1 last time
So with the current version, once you are through the Coppers, the other dude Exiles your best cards and makes you play your worst cards. That makes the card more of a (Double-)Treasury/trasher thing and interesting mini-games can arise, like trashing an Exiled Silver to get at the good stuff.
It should be clear though that the large majority of Exiled cards will be Treasures (a Pearl Diver in Exile can potentially be better for the active player than a Gold!) so the card will behave very differently than the original Prince+ version.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #108 on: April 09, 2021, 03:06:38 pm »
+1



Effectively a + (Princed terminal Silver card) each turn with a small twist.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #109 on: April 09, 2021, 03:50:20 pm »
0

Updated Collector 1 last time
So with the current version, once you are through the Coppers, the other dude Exiles your best cards

You get to choose which cards you Exile. You can still Exile bad Actions even after running through all your Coppers. The player to your left only decides which card you play from Exile, not which card you Exile.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2021, 03:51:21 pm by Gubump »
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #110 on: April 09, 2021, 04:02:28 pm »
0



Effectively a + (Princed terminal Silver card) each turn with a small twist.

Gem Study + Feodum would be quite the combo
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #111 on: April 09, 2021, 06:06:36 pm »
0

Updated Collector 1 last time
So with the current version, once you are through the Coppers, the other dude Exiles your best cards

You get to choose which cards you Exile.
You refer to an old version. In the current version, the other dude chooses.
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emtzalex

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #112 on: April 09, 2021, 07:32:32 pm »
+4


This is not really related to the card itself, but lately I've been frustrated with my cards for WDC: It feels like they are of bad quality, and that i have trouble getting inspired/make interesting cards, and that people don't think they are interesting. I know this is pretty self-absorbed, but I'm wondering if people think i have some positive influence here? It doesn't have to be big.


I think your cards are interesting, and you definitely contribute to the overall discussion. I have sometimes felt similarly frustrations. One of the great things about Dominion is how seemingly simple mechanics can interact in so many different and complex ways. While this makes for a fun game, it makes designing cards much more challenging, because every change you make to fix one issue can create three new ones. It's like trying to put a fitted sheet on a bed that is slightly too large for it.

One thing that I have tried to deal with my frustration is to simplify my card designs. Some of the best and most fun cards in the game just give vanilla bonuses, maybe with one additional line of text. With a relatively simple design, it can be easier to dial a card's effect up and down, as there are not as many moving parts. My card this week started out with a trash-for-benefit effect (and a different name) similar to Sacrifice. It made the text way to small, so I thought, do I really need this. I took that part out, made it cheaper, and tinkered with the other aspect. My current card is very different from where it started, but I like it a lot better.

Also, try to remember that this is all for entertainment, so if any part of it is not enjoyable, try to let that go. Your cards don't need to be perfect, and winning a contest, while fun, is not that important. There's no prize money or professional prestige. If you made the best response to the contest you could, and it's a card you like, that's all that really matters. When people give you feedback, it is worth listening to (since they took the time to give it) and considering. If you can apply it to make your card better, great! If not, or if you disagree with the feedback, thank the person and leave your card the way it is.

We don't all completely agree on what exactly the criteria are. For example, I happen to feel that if a fan card can combine with a single official card or WELP to be busted, then that makes the fan card effectively busted; two colliding is a fairly common occurrence, and that official card was there first (and is official), and the fan card needs to yield to it. I have given this as feedback regarding how a fan card interacts with a specific event, and the card's designer expressed the view that this was unlikely enough a possibility not to be of concern.

And that's totally fine! We each can have our own view, and the person running the contest can make their choice based on their own views/criteria. Because these are fan cards, people can make their own rules, and can even decide to never play that card with that event. It's not going to "mess up" the game for anyone, because they can just not play any fan cards they don't want to use. Again, this is all for fun.

To the extent it brings you enjoyment, I hope you keep designing and posting cards, and sharing feedback. And to the extent it does not, I hope it does not cause you any distress.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #113 on: April 10, 2021, 12:38:36 pm »
0

I think it's okay to let the judging address some card issues. Posting ways to improve a card can be done after a contest is complete.
Dude, demanding that a discussion shall be silenced or postponed ain't cool.
The point of the contests is not so much the judgement and who wins (that is just the framework) but the general discussion about card ideas. It is great when people take a lot of effort when they judge the cards but it is not like that is the only feedback that is useful for the card designers.

I'm sorry if my comments came across as rude.  I did say that comments and corrections are helpful.  I was just trying to say that the repeated back-and-forth about what I would consider are either "minor issues" (or even interpretations of a card) seemed to take away from the thread/contest, rather than add to it.  If my opinions are not shared, then I will keep them to myself on this matter in the future, and I apologize.

(The comment about giving ways to improve the card, being saved until after the contest - that was because based on comments, one or two of the cards seem to have become completely different than the original design seemed to intend).

Also... last chance for updates/submissions.  Let's say deadline is ~21 minutes from now - at 1pm.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #114 on: April 10, 2021, 02:09:08 pm »
+4


This is not really related to the card itself, but lately I've been frustrated with my cards for WDC: It feels like they are of bad quality, and that i have trouble getting inspired/make interesting cards, and that people don't think they are interesting. I know this is pretty self-absorbed, but I'm wondering if people think i have some positive influence here? It doesn't have to be big.

Friendly reminder that almost no-one ever won their first contest with as few tries as you.

Also, I don't think it's rare that seasoned people submit cards that get no upvotes, either. I know it sometimes happens with my submissions, even with the higher effort ones. Maybe especially with the high effort ones.

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #115 on: April 10, 2021, 04:15:12 pm »
+1

I'm working on the judging. Hoping to have them up by tonight.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #116 on: April 10, 2021, 10:32:33 pm »
+5

Here are the submissions and my comments and my own rating - how much I would want to include each card into a game I'm playing (for a fun, balanced game).  I recognize that my preferences are different than others, and others may like what I don't and vice versa, and that's okay.

I have copied the wording out of an image (for any that posted only an image), and have created a card image (for any that submitted text-only), just for consistency.

From pubby:

Quote from: Hitchhiker
$5 Action-Duration
+1 Action
For the rest of the game, discard one less card from your hand during clean-up.
(This stays in play.)

At first, this looked way too strong.  Then, realizing it only saves a card from hand (not from in play), it makes sense.  It would definitely allow you to build a deck with a few more Action cards in it than you would otherwise, since it's easy enough to save one for your next turn (increasing the power of your next hand by adding to it rather than replacing a card from it by topdecking).  As you said, the wording is unconventional, but is much more concise than alternatives - it just requires the clarification that at end-of-turn, you still draw 5 new cards (or 3 for Outpost) instead of drawing up to 5 cards in hand.  Overall, this looks like a fun card to play with.  Most of the time, I don't think there would be a need to buy a 2nd or more - unless you are regularly having too much money without extra Buys.
Rating: 7/10

From Aquila:

Quote from: Lithograph
$5 Action-Duration
Gain 3 Silvers.
At the start of each of your turns for the rest of the game, you may trash a Silver from your hand for +2 Cards, +1 Buy and + $2.
(This stays in play.)

This card looks very difficult to judge.  In some Kingdoms, it would be very powerful.  In others, you would have to hope to match with those Silvers you gained and then it could be a dead card (at least it's set aside!) for the rest of the game.  I like the idea, but I think it's probably too strong (most of the time) to cost $5.  Alternatively, you could also take this idea, remove the "Duration" (and "start of turn"), and have it be a regular non-terminal Action card that gains a single Silver with the optional trash-for-benefit, costing only $4.  I think that would be at least as fun as this Duration card.
Rating: 6/10

From mandioca15:

Quote from: Magnate
$5 Action-Duration
At the start of each of your turns, if you have no Debt tokens, +2 Cards, +1 Buy and set aside two Debt tokens. At the start of your Buy phase, take all Debt tokens set aside by this.
(This stays in play.)

In a way, this is like Wine Merchant - you need to have $2 leftover on some turn in order to be able to use it again.  It would be great to be able to activate it every turn.  But that would require a coin density in your deck of at least 1.0 in order to break even (the 2 cards you draw pay the 2 debt) - and obviously that's a waste of money to buy this card for that.  But the benefit of the card is for spike turns - one great turn (start with +2 cards), then on a future turn with less money, pay off the debt to set it up again.  Getting 2 or 3 of these in play would be huge, and because of that I think it probably needs to be pushed up to $6.  But otherwise, I think this would be a lot of fun to play with.
Rating: 7/10

From Shael:

Quote from: Courtyard of Miracles
$4 Action-Duration
+1 Action
At the start of each of your turns for the rest of the game, you may gain a Copper to your hand.
(This stays in play)

This would be a great card to buy and play multiples.  I think the changes you've made make it too strong.  With a 4/3 split, I'd buy Silver and this just about every time.  Then buy a couple more until I have 4 or 5 of them.  I think by turn 8 or 9 most games, you'd have at least 4 in play which will guarantee a Province almost every turn.  Either removing the +Action or (more likely) putting the cost back to $5 is probably needed.  I like the concept of self-junking for benefit though.  It really adds to the strategic element of the game.
Rating: 6/10

From grep:

Quote from: Harlequin
$5 Action-Duration
At start of each of your turns for the rest of the game:
You may discard your hand for +4 Cards.
(This stays in play)

This is just one part of Minion - it's missing the Attack portion, and it doesn't give you an option for +$2 instead... but it does give you the mulligan option every single turn.  I think this card could land anywhere from $4 to $6 without feeling out of place.  Obviously the cheaper it is, the more likely someone would be to buy a second.  The concept makes sense and would fit in the game, but it also doesn't "wow" me.
Rating: 5/10

From xmdata:

Quote from: Archbishop
$6 Action-Duration
At the start of each of your turns for the rest of the game: you may trash a card from your hand.

While this is in play, the first time you trash a card costing $2 or more each turn, +1VP
(This stays in play.)

I like that the trash-for-benefit isn't too strong.  It can trash Copper/Curse without benefit.  It can trash Estates without losing the VP.  Or it can trash early game Action cards that aren't needed anymore (such as weaker terminals).  Trashing anything else for that +1VP probably isn't worth it, as it weakens your hand that turn.  But it also feels like it would be available too late at $6 most of the time (terminal Action card with no benefit the turn it's played) - plus, I'd probably rather buy Gold than this at my first $6 most of the time.  And if there are any other trashing cards available, I likely wouldn't buy this at all.  I think your initial submission was too strong, but now this is too weak.  It serves too niche of a market in its current form.
Rating: 5/10

From faust:

Quote from: Mummer's Farce
$5 Night-Duration
+5 Villagers
+5 Coffers
At the start of each of your turns for the rest of the game, lose a Villager or Coffers.
(This stays in play.)

Immediately, this card is only worth 4 Villagers and 5 Coffers or vice versa, since start of turn happens before you can use either.  The +Villagers is only helpful when you have Action cards that need them.  But I could see using up those 5 Coffers in the next 1 or 2 turns after playing the card (buy a Gold, a really strong Action card, or multiples if you have +Buy your next turn).  The problem is, by the time you need some of the Villagers, they will likely be gone (maybe you'll be able to use 1 or 2 of them).  And to make it worse, any other cards in the game that give +Villagers or +Coffers are significantly weakened by buying Mummer's Farce.  Also, trying to buy a 2nd one makes matters worse as your stockpiles deplete even faster.  The +5 Coffers is great.  But I feel that the "Farce" in the name is too accurate.
Rating: 4/10

From spheremonk:

Quote from: Secret Stash
$6 Action-Duration
Place the top 3 cards of your deck face down under this.  At the start of each turn: set aside a card from your hand face down; put a card from under this into your hand; put the set aside card under this.
(This stays in play.)

This looks like a great way to either balance out your hands, or intentionally create spikes from one hand to another.  If you have too much money, set aside a Gold.  If you have too little, set aside a Victory card and pull out money you've saved.  If you have 2 terminal Action cards, set one aside.  If you have no Action cards in hand yet, pull one out that you had set aside.  It would be nice to just store Victory cards away in this, but that's what Island is for.  And at $6, this has so much more potential.  Plus, towards the end of the game, you can definitely start putting green cards under this.  It would be great to have multiples too - like having multiple Crypts in play.  Even better, Throne Room one of these (the Throne Room gets set aside with it for tracking, but then that $4 card is as valuable as this $6 card).  The only complaint I might have is that the wording is a little awkward, but I think it has to be, to ensure you can't just keep your hand the same - to force the trade of cards.
Rating: 8/10

From JW:

Quote from: Alchemical Factory
$6 Action-Duration
At the start of your turn, you may trash a card from your hand. If you do, you may gain a differently-named card to your hand, costing up to $1 more than it.
(This stays in play)

This card is very, very strong.  Compare it to Upgrade.  Upgrade is a cantrip, same as this card (both leave you the same number of cards in hand before trashing).  Upgrade forces a trash, whereas this leaves it optional.  Upgrade gains the card normally (to discard pile) but this gains it to hand.  Upgrade must gain a card costing exactly $1 more, but this card is "up to $1 more", which would allow you to turn a $5 Action card into a Duchy near the end of the game - something Upgrade can't do.  Finally, Upgrade only works each time you get through your deck to play it, whereas Alchemical Factory works every single turn after you play it.  As is, this card probably needs to cost at least $8.  Otherwise, you need to take out a bunch of the options (force a trash, or gain costing exactly $1 more, or don't gain to hand, or even don't make the gain optional - trashing a Curse or Copper would get you back a Copper if it stays "up to $1 more").  It would be nice to have a card like this available, but it needs a few modifications for balance.
Rating: 4/10

From spineflu:

Quote from: Salt Mine
$5 Action-Duration
At the start of your turn, trash the top card of your deck. You may gain a copy of the trashed card.
(This stays in play)

This is effectively the same as "Reveal the top card of your deck.  Discard it or trash it." other than the fact that your version works towards a 3-pile ending of the game.  It feels very weak, but if it were $4 I think it would feel quite strong (being able to regularly open with it).  I wonder about either doing the top 2 cards of your deck, or adding an option to put it back onto your deck instead of just trash/discard (maybe have the "gain a copy" be to the top of your deck"?)  I do agree that "to your hand" was too powerful though.  In general, blind trashing doesn't seem like a great idea.  There is one Zombie that lets you do that, but it actually seems better than this card (other than the fact that you can't do it every turn). 
Rating: 5/10

From anordinaryman:

Quote from: Voyage
$4 Night-Duration
If this is the first time you played a Voyage this turn, and the previous turn wasn't yours, then take an extra turn after this one. At the start of each of your turns for the rest of the game: gain a Copper.
(This stays in play.)

This is gained to your hand (instead of your discard pile)

I don't think I'm a fan of this card.  It's a single-shot extra turn (likely on the same turn you buy it, unless for some reason you'd rather save it for later).  Mid-game it's a way to turn a $4 hand into the possibility of a $5 or $6 hand.  Towards the end of the game, it's a chance to turn a $4 into a Duchy or hopefully a Province.  But as soon as you play it, you better hope you don't have many shuffles left in the game.
Rating: 3/10

From The Alchemist:

Quote from: Orrery
$4 Action-Duration
At the start of each of your turns for the rest of the game: Look through your deck and discard pile.  Put a card from your discard pile into your hand, a card from your hand onto your deck, then discard a card from your deck.  After all start-of-turn effects, shuffle your deck.
(This stays in play.)

I feel that this is way too strong at $4.  Even with 1, once you discard a strong card from play (Gold, Goons, whatever), it comes back into your hand every turn.  And with 2, as you mentioned, you can take any card out of your deck, put it into your discard, then into your hand.  It either needs a much higher cost (at least $6, possibly more), or it needs some serious nerfing (though this would be hard to add, since there is already a lot of text).  I also don't really like that it messes with the normal movement of cards so much - a small amount make sense (e.g. Harbinger), but not this much.
Rating: 3/10

From silverspawn:

Quote from: Tax Collector
$4 Action-Duration
For the rest of the game, when you shuffle your deck, +1 Coffers.
(This stays in play.)

I love the simplicity of this card.  Its effect is not overpowering (which is needed from a $4 permanent Duration card), but it does seem appropriate - and tied to the name very well too.  It will affect your strategy slightly, as you will want to be able to get through your deck faster (more draw, or more trashing, or both).  There's a good balance that would be needed.
Rating: 9/10

From DunnoItAll:

Quote from: Snoop
$4 Action-Duration
For the rest of the game, at the start of each of your turns, look at the top card of your deck and either discard it or put it on the top or the bottom of your deck.
(This stays in play.)

I like the additional option to bottom-deck the card you look at.  Even not in a Kingdom with Pearl Diver, it is a great additional option which isn't too complex but adds to the depth of the card.  I also like how they can stack together (something to definitely consider at $4 cost), but only if you're not top-decking the card you look at.  The real question is - how many of these would you buy at $4.  You could definitely get a few if there are not other strong $3 or $4 cards in the Kingdom.
Rating: 8/10

From Lackar:

Quote from: Caravan City
$5 Action-Duration
At the start of each of your turns for the rest of the game, you may trash 2 Coppers from your hand to gain a Silver or trash 2 Silvers from your hand to gain a Gold.
(This stays in Play)

This has some similarities to Trading Post.  Trading Post gains the silver to hand (from trashing 2 cards, usually Estates and Coppers, not just Coppers), but this card is permanent, optionally acts on every turn, and doesn't take up an Action.  The second option concerns me - yes, trading Silvers for Gold can be helpful, but you're giving up $4 buying power this turn to do it and have to wait a full shuffle to see the benefit.  It would be nice if that Gold could be gained to hand or topdecked, though having the Silver gained to hand was probably too powerful (the initial version of the card).  Maybe both gained cards could go to top of deck instead of discard pile?  I'm not sure.  I actually think I liked the initial concept better though - trashing 2 for a Silver to hand and if you didn't you gain a Copper.  I guess if the Copper is gained to hand, then stacking 3 of these cards would guarantee you a Silver to hand every turn (which seems reasonable for 3 cards costing $5).
Rating: 6/10

From majiponi:

Quote from: Gentleman
$5 Action-Attack-Duration
At the start of each of your turns for the rest of the game: gain a Silver to your hand, and each other player gains a Copper to their hand.
(This stays in play.)

This is like some previous submissions, gaining money to hand.  But I think this one balances it fairly well, even combining an effective Attack with it (which temporarily helps others, then later hurts them).  It's like playing a Council Room (which lets others draw a card), giving them +$1 this turn and even stacking with multiples (from the same or different players), unless a handsize attack hits.  One potential problem is especially in games with more players, it will cause the game to end fairly quickly.  Normally, Attacks slow the game down, but this one would likely speed it up - giving everyone more money on current turns.  I do think the gaining of Silver to hand should be optional (and the Attacking conditional on gaining the Silver) though.  This would actually work really well with Caravan City (previous submission above).  One potential problem is tracking who is affected by which Gentleman cards when Moat, Lighthouse, or Champion are in play (since whoever is affected is determined at the time it's played but that remains true the full time it's in play... for the rest of the game).
Rating: 7/10

From Timinou:

Quote from: Elvenworks
$5 Night-Duration
For the rest of the game, if you have no Treasures in play at the start of your Night phase, +1VP and gain a card costing up to $4.
(This stays in play.)

This takes the concept of Devil's Workshop one step further - rather than just not buying a card this turn to gain a Gold, you now have the option every turn to gain both 1VP and a card (albeit only a $4 card).  I think it makes more sense to "gain a card costing less than this" so when cost-reduction is available, you can't gain other copies of Elvenworks with it.  And I think you used the wrong VP logo (should be the token).  But otherwise, I think this card fits perfectly with the Nocturne set.  Great design.
Rating: 9/10

From gambit05:

Quote from: Poet
$5 Action–Duration
At the start of Clean-up of each of your turns for the rest of the game: Exile a card from your hand. If you can’t, gain a Curse.
(This stays in play.)

This card requires perfect timing to pull it off.  Ideally, you are Exiling all your Victory cards as they come in (and possibly Coppers if you haven't trashed them all yet), but you can't get one (or more) of these into play too early, or else you junk yourself.  This is clever.  And sometimes, you may end up taking that Curse anyway, as you need all your cards to buy that Province.  Other times, you may give up buying a Gold, just because you'd rather Exile a Copper than take a Curse.  This could be quite fun to play around with - and dangerous.
Rating: 8/10

From emtzalex:

Quote from: Almoner
$4 Action-Duration-Victory
At the start of each of your turns for the rest of the game, trash a card from your hand.
(This stays in play.)

Worth 1VP plus 1VP per Almoner you have in play.

Where Poet (previous submission, above) required good timing, I think this one is even more deadly if timed just wrong.  It's use is combined between the two parts (trashing and VP), but if you try to take too much advantage of the VP, then you wreck your deck/hand.  And like Distant Lands, this card isn't much use until it's played (though not quite as bad, because you could buy a whole bunch, then just put 2 or maybe 3 into play right at the end of the game, and it could be quite good if timed right).  I like the VP-play with this, but I'm not sure I like the trashing (though I'm not sure how to balance the VP play without it).
Rating: 7/10

From NoMoreFun:

Quote from: Malaise
$3 Action-Duration
Gain a card from the Trash.
For the rest of the game, at the start of each of your turns, trash an Action card from the supply.
(This stays in play)

I might be missing something, but this card seems to not work.  You gain a card from the trash once (on play), but you trash a card every turn from the Supply.  This is helpful if you want to quickly get to a 3-pile ending.  But just putting a card into play that helps with that, without doing much else, doesn't seem like a great design.  I recognize that you've got the cheapest costing card design out of ~20 here, but I don't think it works.
Rating: 3/10

From fika monster:

Quote from: Collector
$7 Action-Duration
For the rest of the game:
At the beginning of each of your turns, the player to the left chooses a non-Duration Action or Treasure card you have in Exile: Play it, leaving it there.  You may trash that card.
At the start of Clean-up, the player to the left chooses a card you would discard from play this turn.  Exile it.
(This card stays in play)

The most recent update to this card broke it.  I think it was fine at $6 cost, with the person playing it choosing which card to Exile from play.  You have some strength and some weaknesses.  You could always put strong cards into Exile, but then you have nothing left in your deck to play.  Or you could put a weak card into Exile (keeping good ones in your deck) but then you have a very weak start to your next turn.  By letting the person to your left, choose both what you Exile and what you play the next turn - that just means they put in a Copper or a weak Action card.  Although, now that I type that, it's not the end of the world to have that - and maybe comparable to the Hireling anyway?  And by trashing each card that is used in Exile, you still have the option to play a single good Action or a single Gold one turn to make sure it's available in Exile for use at least one turn.  If I thought about this one a bit more, maybe I'd like some of the final changes a bit more.  But I don't like it much at the moment.
Rating: 5/10

From X-tra:

Quote from: Gem Study
$6 Action-Duration
For the rest of the game, at the start of each of your trns, gain a Silver to your hand and at the start of each of your Clean-ups, trash a Treasure you have in play.
(This stays in play.)

Another interesting way to put a Silver into your hand each turn - just trash it at the end of your turn (though it's even better than that at first, when you can trash Coppers while you still have them).  Unfortunately, I think this card is way too powerful at its cost.  You could quite easily end up with 2 or 3 of them in play and basically guarantee buying a Province every turn.  There needs to be some drawback.
Rating: 4/10

From Xen3k:

Quote from: Kinsman
$4 Action-Duration
At the start of each of your turns for the rest of the game, you may discard a card for +1 Card. If you discard a copy of this, choose one: +1 Action; or +1 Coffers; or gain a Horse.
(This stays in play)

I like the simple sifting effect of this card.  As someone else mentioned already, I think you would almost always want to play the next copy of it rather than discard for an additional benefit.  It looks like a good card, but nothing unique or amazing stands out to me.
Rating: 7/10

Honourable Mention:
Secret Stash by spheremonk
Snoop by DunnoItAll
Poet by gambit05

Runner Up:
Elvenworks by Timinou

And the Winner is...
Tax Collector by silverspawn

Congratulations.  And thanks to all for the entries.  It was hard work, but a lot of fun, to judge them.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2021, 01:20:28 pm by mathdude »
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Xen3k

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #117 on: April 10, 2021, 11:26:39 pm »
0

Congrats to Silverspawn!

However, I am pretty sure mine was missed. It was Kinsman.
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emtzalex

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #118 on: April 11, 2021, 02:25:43 am »
+2

From Timinou:


I think you used the wrong VP logo (should be the token).

Just for the record, Timinou used the correct logo for giving VP tokens (I have messed this up in the past so locked it down for myself). For example:
 
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #119 on: April 11, 2021, 04:37:00 am »
0

Aw

Anyway, i agree with the judging of my card: Its a mess lol
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Lackar

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #120 on: April 11, 2021, 09:45:51 am »
+1

Great judging. I also agree, My card name doesn't match, wording was too long for my original concept. I would like to thank you all for the corrections of spelling and design. I feel you are all helping me design better cards even tho this is only my 2nd entry. Hope I can keep coming up with ideas.
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faust

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #121 on: April 11, 2021, 12:00:03 pm »
0

From faust:

Quote from: Mummer's Farce
$5 Night-Duration
+5 Villagers
+5 Coffers
At the start of each of your turns for the rest of the game, lose a Villager or Coffers.
(This stays in play.)

Immediately, this card is only worth 4 Villagers and 5 Coffers or vice versa, since start of turn happens before you can use either.  The +Villagers is only helpful when you have Action cards that need them.  But I could see using up those 5 Coffers in the next 1 or 2 turns after playing the card (buy a Gold, a really strong Action card, or multiples if you have +Buy your next turn).  The problem is, by the time you need some of the Villagers, they will likely be gone (maybe you'll be able to use 1 or 2 of them).  And to make it worse, any other cards in the game that give +Villagers or +Coffers are significantly weakened by buying Mummer's Farce.  Also, trying to buy a 2nd one makes matters worse as your stockpiles deplete even faster.  The +5 Coffers is great.  But I feel that the "Farce" in the name is too accurate.
Rating: 4/10
While this seems a fair evaluation of the power level of the card (I think it's a bit stronger than given credit for, compared to Acting Troupe) - I am confused about what exactly the criticism is.
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mathdude

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #122 on: April 11, 2021, 01:18:16 pm »
+2

Congrats to Silverspawn!

However, I am pretty sure mine was missed. It was Kinsman.

You are right, I completely missed it.  I remember reading it (and the discussion about it) as it was posted, but somehow skipped it in the judging.  I've just added it now (it scored 7/10).

I think you used the wrong VP logo (should be the token).

Just for the record, Timinou used the correct logo for giving VP tokens (I have messed this up in the past so locked it down for myself). For example:
 


You are correct.  I retract my statement!

Aw

Anyway, i agree with the judging of my card: Its a mess lol

The card had a good, unique idea, and I liked that.  But between all the suggestions and changes, it got confusing... for me, likely for you, and maybe for others too.  I'm not sure if it would end up working well (i.e. balanced and fun) in a real game or not, but it would be worth trying, once you sort out a few more parts of it... if you want to.

From faust:

Quote from: Mummer's Farce
$5 Night-Duration
+5 Villagers
+5 Coffers
At the start of each of your turns for the rest of the game, lose a Villager or Coffers.
(This stays in play.)

Immediately, this card is only worth 4 Villagers and 5 Coffers or vice versa, since start of turn happens before you can use either.  The +Villagers is only helpful when you have Action cards that need them.  But I could see using up those 5 Coffers in the next 1 or 2 turns after playing the card (buy a Gold, a really strong Action card, or multiples if you have +Buy your next turn).  The problem is, by the time you need some of the Villagers, they will likely be gone (maybe you'll be able to use 1 or 2 of them).  And to make it worse, any other cards in the game that give +Villagers or +Coffers are significantly weakened by buying Mummer's Farce.  Also, trying to buy a 2nd one makes matters worse as your stockpiles deplete even faster.  The +5 Coffers is great.  But I feel that the "Farce" in the name is too accurate.
Rating: 4/10
While this seems a fair evaluation of the power level of the card (I think it's a bit stronger than given credit for, compared to Acting Troupe) - I am confused about what exactly the criticism is.

I will admit that Renaissance is one of only 2 expansions I'm very unfamiliar with (Alchemy is the other), so I didn't have the reference of how it relates to Acting Troupe.  It's my own gut feel for the card, and the way I play may be different than other people (though I do tend to adapt fairly well to different Kingdoms, I believe).  But I feel the +Villagers are mainly placeholders which disappear quickly (and it gets worse if you try to buy a 2nd of these cards).  The +Coffers feel almost too strong (a really big buy possible next turn), but the +Villagers are too weak.  I guess I tend to prefer cards in my games where it's actually helpful (not harmful) to buy more than one of the same card, so I wasn't too fond of this card.
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Shael

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #123 on: April 11, 2021, 04:22:54 pm »
0

From The Alchemist:
Quote from: Orrery
$4 Action-Duration
At the start of each of your turns for the rest of the game: Look through your deck and discard pile.  Put a card from your discard pile into your hand, a card from your hand onto your deck, then discard a card from your deck.  After all start-of-turn effects, shuffle your deck.
(This stays in play.)

I feel that this is way too strong at $4.  Even with 1, once you discard a strong card from play (Gold, Goons, whatever), it comes back into your hand every turn.  And with 2, as you mentioned, you can take any card out of your deck, put it into your discard, then into your hand.  It either needs a much higher cost (at least $6, possibly more), or it needs some serious nerfing (though this would be hard to add, since there is already a lot of text).  I also don't really like that it messes with the normal movement of cards so much - a small amount make sense (e.g. Harbinger), but not this much.
Rating: 3/10

From silverspawn:
Quote from: Tax Collector
$4 Action-Duration
For the rest of the game, when you shuffle your deck, +1 Coffers.
(This stays in play.)

I love the simplicity of this card.  Its effect is not overpowering (which is needed from a $4 permanent Duration card), but it does seem appropriate - and tied to the name very well too.  It will affect your strategy slightly, as you will want to be able to get through your deck faster (more draw, or more trashing, or both).  There's a good balance that would be needed.
Rating: 9/10

I know that the winner is already decided and I don't want to constest the ranking but I just whant to point that...
Orrery is too strong where tax collector is ok ?
I mean, Orrery have default, obviously, but this one...
« Last Edit: April 11, 2021, 04:28:06 pm by Shael »
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mathdude

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #124 on: April 11, 2021, 08:02:24 pm »
0

Yes, I believe Orrery is way too strong at $4, as it gives you huge control over your hand and deck... and does it every turn.

Tax Collector triggers only when you shuffle, which typically happens less and less frequently as the game goes on and even so only gives you +1 Coffers. Sure, you could get 2 (or even 3 or 5) in play... but at the cost of not buying other stuff, to get a couple extra Coffers every few turns.
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anordinaryman

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #125 on: April 11, 2021, 10:51:49 pm »
+3


I know that the winner is already decided and I don't want to constest the ranking but I just whant to point that...
Orrery is too strong where tax collector is ok ?
I mean, Orrery have default, obviously, but this one...

It's just one person's opinion. My card also got ranked 3/10 but my submission is currently the most up-voted post in the forum this week. Clearly mathdude didn't see what those other people did, and I'm perfectly fine with that. There's many Donald X designed cards that is a hit or a miss depending on each individual. It just happens. I'm just happy to come up with an idea that appeals to me.

I don't think Orrery is crazy strong. My biggest criticism is it slows the game down so much. Every turn I look through all the cards I have? Then I have to shuffle every turn before I even start my turn?
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Shael

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #126 on: April 12, 2021, 05:09:31 am »
+1

Yes, I believe Orrery is way too strong at $4, as it gives you huge control over your hand and deck... and does it every turn.

Tax Collector triggers only when you shuffle, which typically happens less and less frequently as the game goes on and even so only gives you +1 Coffers. Sure, you could get 2 (or even 3 or 5) in play... but at the cost of not buying other stuff, to get a couple extra Coffers every few turns.
In a good engine, you usualy shufle each turn. If you play with sifter, discard for benefit or gainer it goes to multiple coffers per turn. You don't have to buy multiple tax collector and wast too much buy on it; only one is enougth to be a great source of money. And it's way stronger than Orrery.
This was the general discord though about these two cards and I agree with them.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2021, 05:23:23 am by Shael »
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #127 on: April 12, 2021, 05:28:39 am »
0

Wouldn't Orrery decrease your handsize if your discard pile is empty at the start of your turn?

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #128 on: April 14, 2021, 05:25:56 am »
0

Wouldn't Orrery decrease your handsize if your discard pile is empty at the start of your turn?
Yes, it decrase it.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #129 on: April 14, 2021, 05:34:33 am »
0

In that case, I also doubt that it's too strong. But I don't get the connection to Tax Collector. The cards don't seem to me to be similar. One does deck improvement, the other does payoff.

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #130 on: April 14, 2021, 03:04:39 pm »
0

In that case, I also doubt that it's too strong. But I don't get the connection to Tax Collector. The cards don't seem to me to be similar. One does deck improvement, the other does payoff.
The remark wasn't on their similarities; it's just than tax collector, presented as a model of balance, is way stronger than Orrery, consider as too strong.
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pubby

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #131 on: April 14, 2021, 08:53:10 pm »
+2

Tax Collector is a better Baker on most boards, but becomes crazy degenerate with certain enablers like Oasis or Mill. I love the card - it sounds fun - but it's not balanced.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #132 on: April 15, 2021, 02:38:51 am »
+2

Re: Tax Collector... several years ago, there was a big debate over whether or not it counted as shuffling if you had only zero or one card that was being shuffled. There is no official card that ever cares about this distinction. Donald did eventually rule that you can shuffle one card; but he didn't rule on the question of shuffling zero cards.

Here is the thread: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=15358.msg601263#msg601263

For what it's worth, MTG does state in the rules that things that trigger when you shuffle still trigger if you only have zero or one card.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2021, 12:49:07 pm by GendoIkari »
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #133 on: April 15, 2021, 01:42:12 pm »
0

I assumed without questioning it that you shuffle with one card but not with zero

GendoIkari

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #134 on: April 15, 2021, 02:50:12 pm »
+1

I assumed without questioning it that you shuffle with one card but not with zero

That's certainly one of the 3 possible interpretations; though according to this poll the least-common one. Granted, the poll is not unbiased and happened after much discussion around this had already taken place.

Of course, the power level of Tax Collector varies greatly depending on which interpretation you use. If 0 cards counts as shuffling, then man is it insanely overpowered. Every single card-drawing card gets a +1 Coffer tacked on if you've drawn your deck.

Also a weird thing... if 0 cards counts as shuffling, then Smithy works very differently under first edition rules compared to second edition rules. In second edition rules, when you play Smithy with an empty deck, you would first shuffle your discard pile, and then draw 3 cards (failing to draw any), for 1 shuffle. In original rules, you would "shuffle" each time you go to draw 1 of the cards for Smithy, getting 3 shuffles in total.

Now I'm conflicted... although I think lots of people may assume that "when you shuffle" triggers when you shuffle an empty pile, I don't feel like anyone would have ever assumed that playing a Smithy while your deck is empty would count as shuffling 3 times.

*Edit* And I think I know why. In MTG, you only ever shuffle your library when an effect specifically instructs you to "shuffle your library". Because an effect tells you to do that, people don't think it's all that weird when the rules clarify that even if you have 0 cards in your library, it still counts as having shuffled your library when you're instructed to do so. But in Dominion, shuffling happens automatically whenever your draw pile is empty and you need cards. If your discard pile is also empty, people don't think in terms of "now my draw pile is empty, so I will attempt to shuffle my discard pile". Rather they simply think "oh, because my discard pile is empty, the normal rule that says to make a new draw pile doesn't apply in this situation". So it's not so much a question of "does it count as shuffling if it is only 0 cards" as much as it is "do you still even bother making a new draw pile if your discard pile is also empty".

*Edit again* I think the simple fix is to say that yes, it still counts as shuffling if you only have 0 cards to shuffle, BUT the rule about what to do when your draw pile is empty / doesn't have enough cards to do what you need is modified to say "if your discard pile has any cards in it, shuffle your discard pile and put it on the bottom of your draw pile".
« Last Edit: April 15, 2021, 03:19:50 pm by GendoIkari »
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silverspawn

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #135 on: April 15, 2021, 03:36:36 pm »
+1



Now it doesn't matter if you shuffle a deck of 0 cards or not.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2021, 05:05:21 pm by silverspawn »
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silverspawn

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #136 on: April 15, 2021, 03:39:50 pm »
+1

I assumed without questioning it that you shuffle with one card but not with zero

That's certainly one of the 3 possible interpretations; though according to this poll the least-common one. Granted, the poll is not unbiased and happened after much discussion around this had already taken place.

I'm usually in the 'things also happen at 0' camp; for example, I expected you to be able to overpay for 0$ before learning that you can't. I think the reason why this is different is that I view shuffling as 'the process by which the cards from your discard pile go back to your draw pile' and if you have no cards, then this process doesn't take place, whereas if you have one card, it does take place. But I readily concede that this is entirely arbitrary.

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #137 on: April 15, 2021, 03:52:22 pm »
0



Now it doesn't matter if you shuffle a deck of 0 cards or not.

Technically, per the rulebook, you shuffle your discard pile and then place it under your deck (except for a case like Inn).
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #138 on: April 15, 2021, 05:05:08 pm »
0

Technically, per the rulebook, you shuffle your discard pile and then place it under your deck (except for a case like Inn).

Thanks. I keep forgetting that your deck is not your deck but just your draw pile. What do you think of the updated version?

mxdata

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #139 on: April 16, 2021, 12:43:41 am »
0

Technically, per the rulebook, you shuffle your discard pile and then place it under your deck (except for a case like Inn).

Thanks. I keep forgetting that your deck is not your deck but just your draw pile. What do you think of the updated version?

Maybe for maximum clarity "When you shuffle one or more cards ..." to make it clear that 0 cards do not trigger the ability, but 1 card does.  It's probably important to state that, since, as shown in that linked thread, different people have different intuitions about it.  Me, I would interpret shuffle to require two or more cards (indeed, before this, I would never have even thought that there *could* be another interpretation, so it would never be something I would even think was in question to reference an FAQ), and thus, without that clarification, would've played it wrong in a case where there's only one card, while others consider 0 cards to be shuffleable and would thus misinterpret it in the opposite direction
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silverspawn

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #140 on: April 16, 2021, 05:28:13 am »
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How is 'one or more' different from 'at least one'?

mxdata

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #110: This stays in play
« Reply #141 on: April 16, 2021, 07:37:32 pm »
+1

How is 'one or more' different from 'at least one'?

It's not.  "At least one" would work just as well as "one or more"

EDIT: Oh, I see now why you're asking.  I missed the updated version
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