Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5  All

Author Topic: Weekly Design Contest #109: Raise the dead.  (Read 9010 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

faust

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3165
  • Shuffle iT Username: faust
  • Respect: +4624
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest #109: Raise the dead.
« Reply #50 on: March 24, 2021, 09:18:06 am »
+1

I am trying to figure out another card/thing that could use the Zombies, meaning the Necromancer wouldn't be the only thing putting them in play/trash.  It's a lot harder to work with this idea.  Faust's Event attempts to do this.  It looks like a really cool idea (effectively giving you an extra turn with only cards currently in the trash), and that adds extra variety/complexity to the submissions.  But the Event is very complex in the wording.  I'm not sure if it's intentional or not, but any card you gain with that extra turn would not remain yours... it would go back into the trash after the second swap.  Alternatively, the upside to that event is that you could use a Zombie Apprentice and "trash" a Zombie Spy, Zombie Mason, or other card that was in the trash, which means it goes into your hand after the second swap... I'm guessing this is the main intention of the way the Event is worded?
Yeah, it's hard to pull off another thing to do with Zombies. Necromancer is in a way the simplest thing to do and its wording is already fairly complex. It's hard to come up with something else that does not get overly complex. My idea I think is not too wordy on its own but extra turns just add a whole bunch of required wording.

The idea that on the extra turn, to gain is to trash and vice versa is very much intended. You can't gain cards yourself but you could build a trash that is more appealing to use in future turns. Of course your opponent can also make use of it. The event is super weird with Durations, but I found no easy way to prevent that interaction, and it is kind of hilarious.

I have previously toyed with the idea of a card that puts an entire pile's worth of each Zombie in the trash and can somehow gain cards from the trash, but it didn't lead anywhere that was interesting enough to justify the extra components.
Logged
The quiet comprehending of the ending of it all

spineflu

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1342
  • Shuffle iT Username: spineflu
  • Head Empty, Heart Worms, Can't Lose
  • Respect: +1283
    • View Profile
    • my instagram, where i paint things
Re: Weekly Design Contest #109: Raise the dead.
« Reply #51 on: March 24, 2021, 10:39:02 am »
+2

I figured out an entry I like better.

Quote
Wilt $3 Action - Zombie
Trash the top card of each Supply pile.

If this isn't in the trash, trash this.

If it's your Action phase, advance to your Buy phase.

What if Salt The Earth for everything?
Comes with a downside though - it's the last action you play* so you won't get to reap the actions-in-trash benefits until next turn with your necromancers.

*barring returners like Villa/Cavalry

Some notes:
Some very big combos with Tomb and Priest. I considered changing the first line to like, "Put the top card of each supply pile into the trash (this is not trashing)" to avoid them but that seems .... like going out of my way to describe trashing, but avoiding the keyword. Big combos exist, it's not ideal but whatever.
The "if this isn't in the trash, trash this." could just be shortened to "trash this" and let the necromancer's "don't move things" let it ignore it, but i figured spell it out for those who want to Lurker/Graverobber/Rogue yoink this from the trash.


« Last Edit: March 24, 2021, 12:18:51 pm by spineflu »
Logged

Lackar

  • Ambassador
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 34
  • Respect: +16
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest #109: Raise the dead.
« Reply #52 on: March 24, 2021, 10:58:19 am »
0

Followed this contest for a while. Love the option everyone has come up with. Not sure I have the smarts like you all do for coming up with cards and welcome feedback, but will give this a try
Zombie Witch
Cost $5, Action - Zombie
+2 cards
+1 action
Each other player reveals their hand and exiles a curse from their hand, If they can't then they gain a curse.

A combination between Coven and Old Witch

Welcome! Glad to have you here.

As long as you are open to hearing feedback, your ability to design balanced, fun cards will significantly increase over the next few contests/weeks.

The card you have designed looks fun, but it is very overpowering. The"+2 cards, +1 action" is a laboratory already, worth $5. Then you have added the witch/coven mix which each cost $5. That doesn't mean it should cost $10, but at least 6 or 7. However, attacks rarely have +action, so that multiples in the same turn rarely happens. So as a minimum, I'd drop the +action. And then we're getting closer to a balanced card.

But designing Zombies actually adds another trick... they have to be relatively equal in power (I'd guess equivalent to a $3 or maybe $4 card). This is so that someone playing a Necromancer actually needs to make an informed choice as to which Zombie to play. If your card were there, it would almost always be chosen over the other Zombies.

Edited the original post and added a design. Nerfed it hopefully so it isn't too overpowered

+1 Card

Each other player reveals their hand and exiles a curse from their hand, If they can't then they gain a curse.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2021, 11:01:31 am by Lackar »
Logged

mathdude

  • Conspirator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 214
  • Respect: +224
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest #109: Raise the dead.
« Reply #53 on: March 24, 2021, 01:25:52 pm »
+1

This a fun challenge, but I'm finding it hard to come up with a good one.

One of the considerations for me is that adding another Zombie makes Necromancer stronger.  As such, I could have created a weak Zombie so that Necromancer isn't overpowered.  Instead, I'm proposing that as part of setup, players would shuffle the four Zombies and randomly select three to play with.



Quote from: Zombie Knight
$3 - Action - Attack - Zombie
Each other player reveals the top 2 cards of their deck, trashes one of them costing from $3 to $6, and discards the rest.
If a card is trashed by this, trash a Necromancer that you have in play.  If you can't, trash this.

So the trashing attack will usually force you to trash your Necromancer.  The exception would be if you are able to take Zombie Knight out of the trash and play it, in which case Zombie Knight will trash itself.

Interesting, but quite harsh. Wouldn't this be always favored over the other Zombies?

Edit: On a second thought, maybe make it less brutal by narrowing the range to "$3 or $4"? Also, what about in the final part, Exiling instead of trashing the Zombie Knight? This would avoid abusing Zombie Knight when it is out of the trash.

I like the way this card works. It encourages more actions to go in the trash, like 2 of the 3 official Zombies. And if someone can take it out of trash (to prevent others from using it), it has a mechanism to get back in the trash.

I do agree a slight nerf might be appropriate... maybe $3-$5 though.
Logged
he/him

Chappy7

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 522
  • Shuffle iT Username: Chappy7
  • Respect: +603
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest #109: Raise the dead.
« Reply #54 on: March 24, 2021, 03:09:56 pm »
+4

« Last Edit: March 24, 2021, 05:01:06 pm by Chappy7 »
Logged

Chappy7

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 522
  • Shuffle iT Username: Chappy7
  • Respect: +603
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest #109: Raise the dead.
« Reply #55 on: March 24, 2021, 04:49:11 pm »
+2

Zombie Goat
cost $3 - Action - Zombie
After drawing your next hand, trash a card from your hand.

I like the idea.  I like thinking about what the image would look like even more lol
Logged

mxdata

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1037
  • Respect: +1146
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest #109: Raise the dead.
« Reply #56 on: March 24, 2021, 05:07:54 pm »
0

My entry for this week is a wacky one:


Quote
Voodoo Ritual - $4
Event

Once per turn: If the previous turn wasn't yours, take another turn after this one, and after this turn and the next, put your deck and hand into your discard pile, then swap your discard pile with the trash and draw 5 cards.
-
Setup: Put the 3 Zombies into the trash.

EDIT: Dropped price to $4, in line with Mission/Seize the Day

I'm a bit confused here, what do you mean by "swap"?  Because it sounds to me like you're exchanging your entire deck with whatever was in the trash, but that can't be right, because why would you ever want to do that?
Logged
They/them

mxdata

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1037
  • Respect: +1146
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest #109: Raise the dead.
« Reply #57 on: March 24, 2021, 05:09:47 pm »
0

My entry for this week is a wacky one:


Quote
Voodoo Ritual - $4
Event

Once per turn: If the previous turn wasn't yours, take another turn after this one, and after this turn and the next, put your deck and hand into your discard pile, then swap your discard pile with the trash and draw 5 cards.
-
Setup: Put the 3 Zombies into the trash.

EDIT: Dropped price to $4, in line with Mission/Seize the Day

I'm a bit confused here, what do you mean by "swap"?  Because it sounds to me like you're exchanging your entire deck with whatever was in the trash, but that can't be right, because why would you ever want to do that?

Oh, wait, never mind, I get it.  You're doing that twice, so you'll end up getting back your cards after the second swap.  Could be really cool with Knights.  During your Voodoo Ritual turn you use a Knight that was previously in the trash, it ends up trashing itself and your opponent's Knight, and then you get both Knights back after the Voodoo Ritual turn!

EDIT: Also, I just realized, although it's unlikely that you'd want to do this, this could theoretically put a Fortress in the trash - just gain a Fortress during your Voodoo Ritual turn, and afterwards it ends up in the trash!

Anything that trashes from hand - which would automatically include Voodoo Apprentice at the least - would be really strong on your Voodoo Ritual turn, as long as there were good cards in the trash.  Just imagine a game with Swindler leaving Provinces in the trash - if you have anything that lets you trash from hand could essentially act as a Province-Gainer!

You'd probably also want to avoid playing a Duration card on the same turn that you buy this, since it would end up in the trash after the Voodoo Ritual turn (excepting those that stay out multiple turns)
« Last Edit: March 24, 2021, 05:22:32 pm by mxdata »
Logged
They/them

scolapasta

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 557
  • Respect: +711
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest #109: Raise the dead.
« Reply #58 on: March 24, 2021, 05:14:16 pm »
0

I will admit the "and after this turn and the next" confused me at first, didn't realize it happened twice.

I wonder if something like "both before and after that turn" might be a little clearer.
Logged
Feel free to join us at scolapasta's cards for discussion on any of my custom cards.

silverspawn

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 5102
  • Shuffle iT Username: sty.silver
  • Respect: +2847
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest #109: Raise the dead.
« Reply #59 on: March 24, 2021, 05:26:38 pm »
+4

New Version:



Old Version:

« Last Edit: March 25, 2021, 03:03:57 pm by silverspawn »
Logged

grep

  • Apprentice
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 263
  • Respect: +365
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest #109: Raise the dead.
« Reply #60 on: March 24, 2021, 05:30:44 pm »
+4


Zombie Mechanic
$3 - Action - Zombie
Trash a card costing up to $4 from the Supply. Gain a copy of it.
Logged

silverspawn

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 5102
  • Shuffle iT Username: sty.silver
  • Respect: +2847
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest #109: Raise the dead.
« Reply #61 on: March 24, 2021, 05:37:00 pm »
+2

@Xen3k: does an entry qualify if it only puts 1 or 2 zombies into the trash?

(The problem I see with my entry as-is is that getting Zombie Mason first may be too big of an advantage.)
Logged

mxdata

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1037
  • Respect: +1146
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest #109: Raise the dead.
« Reply #62 on: March 24, 2021, 05:42:39 pm »
+1


Zombie Mechanic
$3 - Action - Zombie
Trash a card costing up to $4 from the Supply. Gain a copy of it.

Cards with when-trash effects would have fun combos with this.  It can gain you two Fortresses, or a Feodum + 3 Silvers, or a Silk Merchant + 2 coffers + 2 villagers.  With cost reduction, get a Catacombs + a second card with a nominal cost up to $4, or a Cultist + draw 3 cards
Logged
They/them

mathdude

  • Conspirator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 214
  • Respect: +224
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest #109: Raise the dead.
« Reply #63 on: March 24, 2021, 06:37:38 pm »
+2

Submission updated:



There will still be interesting (and sometimes overpowering) interactions.  But I think that will be true of most of the submissions (as well as already true of the Necromancer and existing Zombies).  Hopefully what I've got now at least accounts for the majority of cases, as is typical.
Logged
he/him

Xen3k

  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 315
  • Respect: +405
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest #109: Raise the dead.
« Reply #64 on: March 24, 2021, 07:00:56 pm »
0

@Xen3k: does an entry qualify if it only puts 1 or 2 zombies into the trash?

(The problem I see with my entry as-is is that getting Zombie Mason first may be too big of an advantage.)

If you have alternate methods of choosing what Zombies to add to the trash during setup, I'll allow it, but the original 3 will need to be taken into account. The main thing I would shy away from is veering away from the original concept of single copies of Zombies in the trash. I would rather not have a design that puts 20 duplicate zombies into the trash as that kinda goes against the spirit of the design behind Necromancer and the original Zombies. Additionally, if you design a new non-zombie card I will take into account how it would interact with Necromancer if both appear in the same game. To be clear, if Necromancer and the new non-Zombie card do not interact in the best way it will not be disqualified, there are plenty of cards that break others or make others irrelevant.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2021, 07:07:48 pm by Xen3k »
Logged

gambit05

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 584
  • Respect: +494
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest #109: Raise the dead.
« Reply #65 on: March 25, 2021, 07:02:32 am »
+1


I've updated my card (also in the original post):

   
Pet Sematary
$3 Action Zombie

Quote

+$1

You may play an Action
 card from your hand. If
     it has a copy in the trash,     
+1 Card and +1 Action.


Thanks to silverspawn for the comments!

Logged

Wolflover

  • Herbalist
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5
  • Respect: +5
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest #109: Raise the dead.
« Reply #66 on: March 25, 2021, 10:22:41 am »
+4

First timer, decided to give this a try. Here is my submission
« Last Edit: March 25, 2021, 10:35:56 am by Wolflover »
Logged

silverspawn

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 5102
  • Shuffle iT Username: sty.silver
  • Respect: +2847
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest #109: Raise the dead.
« Reply #67 on: March 25, 2021, 03:06:53 pm »
+1

Okay, nevermind putting only Zombie Spy into the trash -- I've decided to change it in a different way. Instead of making others draw if you can't gain a card, it now makes other draw if you do gain a card. Since this makes it much weaker, I reduced the cost to 3$.



It's obviously now quite different, but at least it shouldn't give a massive advantage to the person who gets Zombie Apprentice in decks without other TfB.
Logged

LibraryAdventurer

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1676
  • Shuffle iT Username: LibraryAdventurer
  • I wish my username had the links like it once did.
  • Respect: +1495
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest #109: Raise the dead.
« Reply #68 on: March 25, 2021, 10:44:55 pm »
+5


Quote
Zombie Infiltrator
$5 Action - Attack
At the start of your next turn, +$3.
Until then, the first time each other player plays an Action card costing at least $3, they play a Zombie from the trash, leaving it there, instead of following the instructions of the Action they played.
-
Setup: Put 3 zombies in the trash.
A zombie-enchantress.

mxdata

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1037
  • Respect: +1146
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest #109: Raise the dead.
« Reply #69 on: March 25, 2021, 10:51:07 pm »
+2


Quote
Zombie Infiltrator
$5 Action - Attack
At the start of your next turn, +$3.
Until then, the first time each other player plays an Action card costing at least $3, they play a Zombie from the trash, leaving it there, instead of following the instructions of the Action they played.
-
Setup: Put 3 zombies in the trash.
A zombie-enchantress.

What if all the Zombies have left the trash?
Logged
They/them

mxdata

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1037
  • Respect: +1146
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest #109: Raise the dead.
« Reply #70 on: March 25, 2021, 11:20:56 pm »
0

First timer, decided to give this a try. Here is my submission


Should that be "$4 or more", or do you really mean for it to only apply to cards costing *exactly* $4?
Logged
They/them

fika monster

  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 308
  • Respect: +291
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest #109: Raise the dead.
« Reply #71 on: March 26, 2021, 04:19:50 am »
+2

This weeks theme is spoooky  :o


A wacky throne room. Probably a lot of problems with it, but i havnt been very inspired this week

edit: Pubby pointed out an obvious looping with itself: added Command type to it


Edit 2:

Math dude pointed out Duration card issues. I decided to make Undead throne be able to play Command cards, except for itself.

Edit 3: Pubby suggested a wording change that i like a lot. thanks pubby!



Also, im Adding another zombie to be used with Undead Throne, to make it work better in 4P games. And also because i want to make a zombie
« Last Edit: March 26, 2021, 04:05:26 pm by fika monster »
Logged

pubby

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 548
  • Respect: +1042
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest #109: Raise the dead.
« Reply #72 on: March 26, 2021, 04:32:45 am »
+2

This weeks theme is spoooky  :o


A wacky throne room. Probably a lot of problems with it, but i havnt been very inspired this week
It infinitely loops rather easily. If you play a throne in the trash, it can play itself repeatedly.
Logged

faust

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3165
  • Shuffle iT Username: faust
  • Respect: +4624
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest #109: Raise the dead.
« Reply #73 on: March 26, 2021, 04:42:32 am »
+2

I will admit the "and after this turn and the next" confused me at first, didn't realize it happened twice.

I wonder if something like "both before and after that turn" might be a little clearer.
I've used the "after this turn" wording because "after this turn" is already a well-defined time in a game of Dominion (through Donate). If it was "before this turn", that would lead to questions about whether when you buy Donate and Voodoo Ritual, you could choose the order of things or not.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2021, 07:50:02 am by faust »
Logged
The quiet comprehending of the ending of it all

mathdude

  • Conspirator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 214
  • Respect: +224
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest #109: Raise the dead.
« Reply #74 on: March 26, 2021, 07:32:23 am »
+1

This weeks theme is spoooky  :o


A wacky throne room. Probably a lot of problems with it, but i havnt been very inspired this week

edit: Pubby pointed out an obvious looping with itself: added Command type to it


Adding the "Command" type was definitely important to avoid infinite loops. But Command cards usually also specify non-Duration if tracking would be an issue. And since your Throne is trashed, it couldn't be left out with the Duration for tracking (like a regular Throne Room) so I think that restriction is needed here too.

But I think there's a bigger problem here... there are 3 Zombies in the trash at the start of game and there are 10 of your Throne. So unless there is other trashing that can put decent Actions or Treasures there, most of the cards in this pile are not useful. You could maybe add to Setup that you put the top card of each Kingdom Pile in the trash (or each Action and Treasure Kingdom Pile to exclude things like Gardens, or Action and Treasure Supply Pile to include Silver and Gold).
Logged
he/him
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5  All
 

Page created in 0.13 seconds with 23 queries.