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[pubby]

Weekly Design Contest #107: Coppers and Estates

Design a card(s) or landscape that names Copper and/or Estate in its text.

Examples of valid entries: Moneylender, Baron, Banquet, Shepherd/Pasture, and Fountain.

Deadline: March 12

[mandioca15]

Manor (Action, $5)

+3 Cards

You may trash an Estate from your hand. If you did, choose one: +1 Action, or +1 Buy.

[Timinou]

If we are designing cards that mention Estates, should we be paying attention to how the card would play in games with Shelters?

[spineflu]

Marquis • $5 • Action - Attack - Duration
+1 Buy
On your next turn, +1 Buy and Copper produces an extra $1. Until then, when any player (including you) buys a card, they first gain a Copper to the top of their deck.

Coppersmith and Swamp Hag combination. So named because most aristocratic titles care about one of the base cards - Duke + Duchess care about Duchy, Baron: Estate, Count: Copper, Governor: Silver (Gold), and so on.

[fika monster]

Marquis • $5 • Action - Attack - Duration
+1 Buy
On your next turn, +1 Buy and Copper produces an extra $1. Until then, when any player (including you) buys a card, they first gain a Copper to the top of their deck.

Coppersmith and Swamp Hag combination. So named because most aristocratic titles care about one of the base cards - Duke + Duchess care about Duchy, Baron: Estate, Count: Copper, Governor: Silver (Gold), and so on.

Doesnt this run into the Sea hag problem: The other player could end up with 5 coppers for their next hand?

[spineflu]

Marquis • $5 • Action - Attack - Duration
+1 Buy
On your next turn, +1 Buy and Copper produces an extra $1. Until then, when any player (including you) buys a card, they first gain a Copper to the top of their deck.

Coppersmith and Swamp Hag combination. So named because most aristocratic titles care about one of the base cards - Duke + Duchess care about Duchy, Baron: Estate, Count: Copper, Governor: Silver (Gold), and so on.

Doesnt this run into the Sea hag problem: The other player could end up with 5 coppers for their next hand?

Kind of, but there's two reasons it dodges that - first, the other player controls how hard they get hit by it. Second, a $5 hand of coppers is not a pin - in fact, it's enough to buy your own Marquis and go for your own Coppersmith strategy.

[grep]

Provisions
Treasure - $4
+1 Buy
Choose one:
Gain a Copper into your hand for each Treasure card in play,
or trash any number of Coppers from your hand for $1 each.

The Apothecary's best friend. Encourages insane exponential growth and depletion of the Copper supply, or could be simply used to trash initial Coppers.

[gambit05]

My submission:

Tinker $3 - Action +1 Card +1 Action           Gain a Copper to your hand.          ------------------------- When you buy this, trash all Coppers you have in play.

[silverspawn]

(Updated)

[spineflu]

How's this play with Inheritance?

[emtzalex]

CONCESSION -- $7
PROJECT
During your turns, Estates are also Treasures with:
" $1 "
"You may return a Copper from your hand to the Supply for +$2; if you don't, gain a Copper to your hand."

[pubby]

If we are designing cards that mention Estates, should we be paying attention to how the card would play in games with Shelters?

I won't penalize a card if it's not very good with Shelters.

[spheremonk]

As worded, unless I’m missing something, this card doesn’t achieve its purpose. As a general principle of Dominion, a player may choose an option they can’t do. So any time I have no Coppers, I would choose “discard 2 Coppers” and discard nothing. But, if I had Coppers, since the card has no accountability build in, I would still choose “discard 2 Coppers,” claim I had none, and discard nothing. As a result, I always get +5 cards and discard none.

If I understand your intention correctly, the easiest way to achieve it is probably to delete everything above the line except “+5 Cards,” and replace it with the following: “Discard 2 Coppers. If you didn’t, discard 5 cards.” (Or, if you prefer, for greater clarity: “You may discard 2 Coppers. If you didn’t, discard 5 cards. ”)

I hope this is helpful.

[emtzalex]

But, if I had Coppers, since the card has no accountability build in, I would still choose “discard 2 Coppers,” claim I had none, and discard nothing. As a result, I always get +5 cards and discard none.

That's not quite right. Given that this is terminal drawing, unless you used a village this will be the end of your Action phase, so your Buy phase would start thereafter. You would either have to play those Coppers, revealing that you cheated, or hide them in your hand, which would eliminate any benefit of not discarding them.

If I understand your intention correctly, the easiest way to achieve it is probably to delete everything above the line except “+5 Cards,” and replace it with the following: “Discard 2 Coppers. If you didn’t, discard 5 cards.” (Or, if you prefer, for greater clarity: “You may discard 2 Coppers. If you didn’t, discard 5 cards. ”)

I agree with your overall point, but these two phrasings matter in an important way. If you have 2 Coppers and 4 Victory cards (in addition to other Treasure), under the first wording you would be required to discard the Coppers, while under the 2nd wording you could discard 1 Copper and 4 Victory cards. That would be even more important if one or more of those Victory cards was a Tunnel.

[spheremonk]

That's not quite right. Given that this is terminal drawing, unless you used a village this will be the end of your Action phase, so your Buy phase would start thereafter. You would either have to play those Coppers, revealing that you cheated, or hide them in your hand, which would eliminate any benefit of not discarding them.

No. Having more than one Action in a turn is not an edge case. Trust me: I’ve seen it happen. All these crazy cards with “Village” in their names . . . 
In any case, what’s your argument? You only get to cheat sometimes, so it’s cool?

I agree with your overall point, but these two phrasings matter in an important way. If you have 2 Coppers and 4 Victory cards (in addition to other Treasure), under the first wording you would be required to discard the Coppers, while under the 2nd wording you could discard 1 Copper and 4 Victory cards. That would be even more important if one or more of those Victory cards was a Tunnel.

So use the second wording. It's clear, it works, and it mirrors what was likely intended.

[emtzalex]

But, if I had Coppers, since the card has no accountability build in, I would still choose “discard 2 Coppers,” claim I had none, and discard nothing. As a result, I always get +5 cards and discard none.

That's not quite right. Given that this is terminal drawing, unless you used a village this will be the end of your Action phase, so your Buy phase would start thereafter. You would either have to play those Coppers, revealing that you cheated, or hide them in your hand, which would eliminate any benefit of not discarding them.

That's not quite right. Given that this is terminal drawing, unless you used a village this will be the end of your Action phase, so your Buy phase would start thereafter. You would either have to play those Coppers, revealing that you cheated, or hide them in your hand, which would eliminate any benefit of not discarding them.

No. Having more than one Action in a turn is not an edge case. Trust me: I’ve seen it happen. All these crazy cards with “Village” in their names . . . 
In any case, what’s your argument? You only get to cheat sometimes, so it’s cool? Just no.

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/always

[Aquila]

Vagabond - Action Attack Duration, $4 cost.
At the start of your next turn, +2 Cards. Until then, when another player trashes a card other than a Copper, they gain a Copper.
-
When you gain this, you may set it aside. If you do, play it.
Heirloom: Begging Bowl

Begging Bowl - Treasure Heirloom, $1 cost.
$1
You may let each other player trash a card from their hand for + $1.

Begging Bowl is using a new but hopefully simple term, 'let'. You may give each other player the option to trash a card from their hand, and no matter how many do trash, you get + $1.

[silverspawn]

As worded, unless I’m missing something, this card doesn’t achieve its purpose. As a general principle of Dominion, a player may choose an option they can’t do. So any time I have no Coppers, I would choose “discard 2 Coppers” and discard nothing. But, if I had Coppers, since the card has no accountability build in, I would still choose “discard 2 Coppers,” claim I had none, and discard nothing. As a result, I always get +5 cards and discard none.

You're right of course. I had a correct wording initially but then decided to 'improve' it to make it feel more natural.

Updated version (also edited the post):

[silverspawn]

How's this play with Inheritance?

Since both cards say 'also', you get both effects. Accountant happens first since it tiggers at the start of the game.

So, if I inherit a Steward and play Estate, I get a Copper to my hand, then I play Steward (and can trash it if I want to).

[fika monster]

At first its an Lab, Then its a smithy but with a lot of Estates in your deck.

Edit:
Formatting fixed, added action as type, and added the setup to the card



Edit 2: Removed setup, it was unnecessary.

[majiponi]

Green Shelter
cost $3 - Action
You may exile an Estate from your hand.
+1 Card per an Estate on your Exile mat.

[spineflu]

Games using picnic has two Extra Estates per player in the supply

At first it,s an Lab, Then its a smithy but with a lot of Estates in your deck.

I'd probably put that in a Setup: clause

[Xen3k]

Cat Burglar - $4
Night
Each other player reveals an Estate or Copper from their hand, or reveals a hand with none.
If a Copper was revealed, gain a Spoils, otherwise +1 Coffers.
If an Estate was revealed, +1 Villager, otherwise +1 Card at the end of this turn.

A non-attack card that still interacts with other players. Not entirely sure what it's power level is, but went with $4 for its cost b/c of Marauder.

[Timinou]

Codger
$4 - Action
Exile a Copper from your hand to gain a card costing up to $1 per Copper on your Exile mat.  Otherwise, reveal a hand with no Coppers and Exile a Copper from the Supply.
-
Setup: Each player Exiles 2 Coppers from the Supply.

Codger is a Displace variant that only works with Coppers.  It starts off slow (you can only gain a $3 cost or cheaper card the first time you play it), but it can theoretically gain Colonies with enough plays and assuming you still have at least one Copper in your deck.  There is synergy with Sanctuary, but there will still be the trade-off between putting Coppers onto your Exile mat and ensuring there is still enough food for Codger to gain cards. 

(There is also a more esoteric synergy with Fountain if that's important to anyone)       

[emtzalex]

Codger
$4 - Action
Exile a Copper from your hand and if you did, gain a card costing up to $1 per Copper on your Exile mat.  Otherwise, reveal a hand with no Coppers and Exile a Copper from the Supply.
-
Setup: Each player Exiles 2 Coppers from the Supply.

I think you can tighten up this language a bit:

"Exile a Copper from your hand and if you did, to gain a card costing up to $1 per Copper on your Exile mat."

See Beggar, Duplicate, Enhance, Fool's Gold, Haunted Mirror, Hostelry, Improve, Market Square, The Earth's Gift, The Sky's Gift, Tunnel, Urchin, Way of the Butterfly, and Way of the Rat.

[Timinou]

Codger
$4 - Action
Exile a Copper from your hand and if you did, gain a card costing up to $1 per Copper on your Exile mat.  Otherwise, reveal a hand with no Coppers and Exile a Copper from the Supply.
-
Setup: Each player Exiles 2 Coppers from the Supply.

I think you can tighten up this language a bit:

"Exile a Copper from your hand and if you did, to gain a card costing up to $1 per Copper on your Exile mat."

See Beggar, Duplicate, Enhance, Fool's Gold, Haunted Mirror, Hostelry, Improve, Market Square, The Earth's Gift, The Sky's Gift, Tunnel, Urchin, Way of the Butterfly, and Way of the Rat.

Thanks - I've updated the OP with the wording you suggested.

[Gubump]

Codger
$4 - Action
Exile a Copper from your hand and if you did, gain a card costing up to $1 per Copper on your Exile mat.  Otherwise, reveal a hand with no Coppers and Exile a Copper from the Supply.
-
Setup: Each player Exiles 2 Coppers from the Supply.

I think you can tighten up this language a bit:

"Exile a Copper from your hand and if you did, to gain a card costing up to $1 per Copper on your Exile mat."

See Beggar, Duplicate, Enhance, Fool's Gold, Haunted Mirror, Hostelry, Improve, Market Square, The Earth's Gift, The Sky's Gift, Tunnel, Urchin, Way of the Butterfly, and Way of the Rat.

Thanks - I've updated the OP with the wording you suggested.

That wording is only used for optional effects. It isn't used for mandatory effects like Codger; see Pillage, Madman, and Wish.

[BBobb]

Codger
$4 - Action
Exile a Copper from your hand and if you did, gain a card costing up to $1 per Copper on your Exile mat.  Otherwise, reveal a hand with no Coppers and Exile a Copper from the Supply.
-
Setup: Each player Exiles 2 Coppers from the Supply.

I think you can tighten up this language a bit:

"Exile a Copper from your hand and if you did, to gain a card costing up to $1 per Copper on your Exile mat."

See Beggar, Duplicate, Enhance, Fool's Gold, Haunted Mirror, Hostelry, Improve, Market Square, The Earth's Gift, The Sky's Gift, Tunnel, Urchin, Way of the Butterfly, and Way of the Rat.

Thanks - I've updated the OP with the wording you suggested.

That wording is only used for optional effects. It isn't used for mandatory effects like Codger; see Pillage, Madman, and Wish.

I think either way is fine. The new Embargo text is a mandatory trash and uses "to". But anyway here is a list of mandatory self-trashers with either "to" or "if you do/did":
"to": Embargo
"if you do/did" or the similar: Treasure Map, Pillage, Madman, Wish, Magic Lamp

So yeah, you should probably use the "if you did/do" wording.

[emtzalex]

Codger
$4 - Action
Exile a Copper from your hand and if you did, gain a card costing up to $1 per Copper on your Exile mat.  Otherwise, reveal a hand with no Coppers and Exile a Copper from the Supply.
-
Setup: Each player Exiles 2 Coppers from the Supply.

I think you can tighten up this language a bit:

"Exile a Copper from your hand and if you did, to gain a card costing up to $1 per Copper on your Exile mat."

See Beggar, Duplicate, Enhance, Fool's Gold, Haunted Mirror, Hostelry, Improve, Market Square, The Earth's Gift, The Sky's Gift, Tunnel, Urchin, Way of the Butterfly, and Way of the Rat.

Thanks - I've updated the OP with the wording you suggested.

That wording is only used for optional effects. It isn't used for mandatory effects like Codger; see Pillage, Madman, and Wish.

I'm not sure that there's such a clear optional/mandatory divide. Secret Cave is optional, but still uses "If you did..." while Mining Village changed from "If you did..." to "You may trash this for..."

For something like Secret Cave or Pillage, it would be grammatically difficult to use "for" language. Wish, Madman, and Treasure Map are all self-trashing/returning, and have to worry about being played in a way that prevent them from doing so (e.g. with Inheritance or Necromancer, which both use "leaving it there"). This one is different, and has specific instructions for what happens if the mandatory direction does not happen.

[Mahowrath]

Cablemaker - $3
Action

+1 Buy

You may trash a Copper from your hand. If you did, cards cost $1 less this turn.

Tricky Moneylenderish Bridge variant: On the one hand easier to acquire than Bridge, and who doesn't like trashing junk better than $1? On the other hand, this does less than nothing for your economy early game, and needs considerably more work to chain.

[Chappy7]

A terminal card, a weak trasher, a conditionally strong gainer,+ $4 if not used as a gainer. It could be a total dud in a hand with nothing you want to trash and nothing currently in the trash pile, but if you have nothing to trash, then there is probably something in the trash pile, so I'm not worried about that. It could end up basically being "discard a Copper or an Estate for $4" which doesn't compare well to Baron or Moneylender, but the ceiling is quite a bit higher, and it has some flexibility.

[faust]

Commission - $4
Action

Trash up to 3 Coppers from the supply.
Then, if there are fewer cards in the trash than in your deck, gain a card costing up to $5.

[silverspawn]

^more?

[fika monster]

CONCESSION -- $7
PROJECT
During your turns, Estates are also Treasures with:
" $1 "
"You may return a Copper from your hand to the Supply for +$2; if you don't, gain a Copper to your hand."

I feel like the two different texts are somewhat distanced from each others. Also, i dont understand if  both texts are supposed to apply to estates, making them like a sort of Moneylender?

[faust]

^more?

No, it's supposed to be this way around.

[fika monster]

At first it,s an Lab, Then its a smithy but with a lot of Estates in your deck.

wondering on extra feedback on this. Can you play it too many times as a lab? Is it exciting/fun? Should i add more estates per player in the setup or remove the setup entirely?

[fika monster]

Commission - $4
Action

Trash up to 3 Coppers from the supply.
Then, if there are fewer cards in the trash than in your deck, gain a card costing up to $5.

Interesting gainer. In the beginning it can get you really good cards, but as the trash grows larger that becomes harder. it also gives you a sort of opportunity to attack your opponents that may have this card, by trashing more coppers than neccesary. In 4 player games this would become tricky. i like it.

Also it becomes fun it tower games. Probably nuts in Some landmark games

[faust]

At first it,s an Lab, Then its a smithy but with a lot of Estates in your deck.

wondering on extra feedback on this. Can you play it too many times as a lab? Is it exciting/fun? Should i add more estates per player in the setup or remove the setup entirely?

I think it is not too strong as a Lab - Labs are good when you can spam them, and that's not really possible with Picnic. However, what might be too strong is that you are building a VP lead while draining a pile, and not slowing down your building. If there is any chance of a 3-pile ending then Picnic becomes a super important card.

The Estate setup thing is a bit clunky in my eyes. I am not sure whether it is necessary. If all players open with a Picnic, then on average everyone will get 4VP out of that (3VP with 4 players) without the setup clause, and 6VP with. So worst case this right now is a Lab that turns itself into a Province (if you choose to not play it when Estates are gone), which seems fairly powerful.

[silverspawn]

^more?

No, it's supposed to be this way around.

So, the idea is that you trash Coppers from the supply to disable the card for your opponent, provided you have the larger deck?

[infangthief]

^more?

No, it's supposed to be this way around.

So, the idea is that you trash Coppers from the supply to disable the card for your opponent, provided you have the larger deck?

By "deck" here, are we talking about your draw pile, or all cards you own?

[faust]

^more?

No, it's supposed to be this way around.

So, the idea is that you trash Coppers from the supply to disable the card for your opponent, provided you have the larger deck?

By "deck" here, are we talking about your draw pile, or all cards you own?

Draw pile. See e.g. Windfall.

[silverspawn]

I also thought the entire deck. But you're right that your interpretation is consistent with past cards.

[Mahowrath]

Commission - $4
Action

Trash up to 3 Coppers from the supply.
Then, if there are fewer cards in the trash than in your deck, gain a card costing up to $5.

I wonder, would including discard pile in the calculation (as per pstone) help make this less swingy?
As it is, in a 2-player 4-3 mirror I make it ~35% that one player will immediately block the other's commission; and being a $5 gainer it's likely unskippable.

[infangthief]

Homestead - $3
Victory

2VP
----
When you gain this, gain an Estate.

So this only becomes interesting in the endgame, but if you have the buys you can turn your $ into VP at a great rate and empty 2 piles into the bargain.

[X-tra]

Once sent a beta version of this for a contest a good while ago. Liked the idea and made it less "feelsbad". So here's a revised Lease!

(The highroll is very much real here.)

[emtzalex]

CONCESSION -- $7
PROJECT
During your turns, Estates are also Treasures with:
" $1 "
"You may return a Copper from your hand to the Supply for +$2; if you don't, gain a Copper to your hand."

I feel like the two different texts are somewhat distanced from each others. Also, i dont understand if  both texts are supposed to apply to estates, making them like a sort of Moneylender?

Yes, everything in quotation marks is now additional text on Estates, which are Treasure - Victory cards (like Harem) but with text in addition to the $ it gives (like Loan or Counterfeit). I copied the syntax from Inheritance, which this is meant to be a variant of. I put the $1 on it's own line because that is how all Treasures do it (I had to leave a space or else the card image generator rendered it back into a dollar sign).

If you buy the Project, then on your turn Estates become this:


Since Inheritance turns them into Action cards up to $4, I wanted to make them similar to Silver, always giving (or at least netting) $2. These do that by giving $1 outright and generating a second $1 by either: giving you $2 instead of $1 for a Copper in your hand (and getting rid of it) or by giving you another Copper to play. 

The mechanic is similar to Moneylender, but these will never completely rid you of Coppers (unless you stop playing them). I didn't want to do a purely de-Coppering mechanic for a few reasons. First, unlike Moneylender, these are not terminal Actions but Treasures that can be played in unlimited number each turn. It would be too easy to quickly rid your deck of all its Copper (once bought). Also, once that happened, the utility of Estates would go down significantly. One of the things I like about Inheritance is that it can flip the script and make buying estates a good idea. If the 3 Estates you had could quickly get rid of your Copper, you'd have no incentive to buy more. With this, once your initial Copper is gone you want to end up with 2 of these in hand, so you can gain then return the same Copper.

I hope that explained it.

[NiCkLeB474]

Cursed Blacksmith -
Gain a Curse. If you do, +3 Cards, +1 Buy, and +. If you don't, trash this.
-
When you gain this or trash this, gain a Copper.

Under the line text counts, right?

Edit: WHY IS IT SO BIG I'M SORRY

Thank you spineflu!

[spineflu]

gotta add that width=250 attribute on the img tag; i've added it for you, but click modify on your post to see what i did

[NiCkLeB474]

gotta add that width=250 attribute on the img tag; i've added it for you, but click modify on your posr to see what i did

Thank you so much! First time here.

[spheremonk]

Coppers or Estates? Sure, I'll use both. And I'll keep it simple.



I’ve changed the text and price several times, seeking balance. The top has been Coppersmith (too powerful), a non-cantrip Merchant for Copper (not quite powerful enough), and now a non-cantrip double Merchant for Copper. I also considered several +Buy ideas in order to accelerate Estate/Copper gains: unconditional +1 Buy; conditional +1 Buy on first play of Copper (together with the +$1 or +$2); and even Pouch as an Heirloom, which feels thematic.

Regarding price, without trashing or Shelters, Copper Mine is immediately worth 3VP, so $5 didn’t seem great vis-a-vis Duchy. Then again, Duchy doesn’t force you to keep extra dead cards. But Duchy is never worth more than 3VP. So with the Merchant-like boost for Copper, $6 felt ok. I certainly wouldn’t pay more.

[faust]

Commission - $4
Action

Trash up to 3 Coppers from the supply.
Then, if there are fewer cards in the trash than in your deck, gain a card costing up to $5.

I wonder, would including discard pile in the calculation (as per pstone) help make this less swingy?
As it is, in a 2-player 4-3 mirror I make it ~35% that one player will immediately block the other's commission; and being a $5 gainer it's likely unskippable.

I don't think it's terrible. Commission is a $5 gainer but it's conditional. If a player blocks another from using Commission then they are also blocking themselves on future turns and are turning the Commission they have into a worse card. And is that a trade-off worth making if they can't even be sure that the opponent has a Commission in their hand?

I don't want to include more counting as that makes it take longer to resolve.

[NoMoreFun]

Smelter
Action - $5
+2 Cards
+1 Action
You may trash a Copper from your hand. If you didn't, gain a Copper to your hand.

[anordinaryman]

Medallion | Treasure | $4*
$1
The next time you play a Copper this turn, +$2 +1 Buy
-
This costs $1 more per Copper you have in play.

Medallion is a Gold+ if you line it up with a Copper, which is easy when you have lots of Coppers. But if you have lots of Coppers, this is harder to buy ... Coppers don't help you buy this card. This similar to the Grand Market restriction, but actually there are a lot of differences. For example, you can buy a Medallion with Medallion/Silver/Copper. If you play with enough heirlooms, you can even open Medallion. Or if there's Bargain/Demand, etc. There's lots of ways to get treasures in play in your Action phase. Why not buy Cavalry/Villa or use Black Market/Storyteller/etc and get 5 coppers in play, then Displace the now $9 cost Medallion into a Colony?

This is strong for its price in many games and you often won't buy Silver. It's a similar thing to me as Destrier often costing much lower, and you won't often buy Lab.

Open to feedback.

[anordinaryman]

Cablemaker - $3
Action

+1 Buy

You may trash a Copper from your hand. If you did, cards cost $1 less this turn.

Tricky Moneylenderish Bridge variant: On the one hand easier to acquire than Bridge, and who doesn't like trashing junk better than $1? On the other hand, this does less than nothing for your economy early game, and needs considerably more work to chain.

I think this is a great idea, but I think it should cost $4. $3 is too strong for this. It's miles above trade route, which, we know is a weak $3, but seeing these two at the same price feels wrong to me. If you use the two buys this card is trash a copper for +$2 +1 Buy which then makes it comparable to Money Lender which is $4. So seeing this and Money Lender at the same price point feels right.
If you compare it to Bridge though, well, Bridge is better at the Payload game, but Cablemaker is not necessarily weaker. Trashing Coppers is great. So, again, this feels like it fits in the realm of $4s.

Coppers or Estates? Sure, I'll use both. And I'll keep it simple.



I’ve changed the text and price several times, seeking balance. The top has been Coppersmith (too powerful), a non-cantrip Merchant for Copper (not quite powerful enough), and now a non-cantrip double Merchant for Copper. I also considered several +Buy ideas in order to accelerate Estate/Copper gains: unconditional +1 Buy; conditional +1 Buy on first play of Copper (together with the +$1 or +$2); and even Pouch as an Heirloom, which feels thematic.

Regarding price, without trashing or Shelters, Copper Mine is immediately worth 3VP, so $5 didn’t seem great vis-a-vis Duchy. Then again, Duchy doesn’t force you to keep extra dead cards. But Duchy is never worth more than 3VP. So with the Merchant-like boost for Copper, $6 felt ok. I certainly wouldn’t pay more.

It's hard to calculate this without lots of playtesting, but it certainly feels too strong from a VP perspective. It's pretty easy to ramp this up to a cheaper Province (buy 3 estates... done!). Considering the lengths I go to to get a Duke up to the same value, (have to buy 6 duchies... a lot harder) this feels way to strong to just go for. Consider making it 2 per each 3 sets of copper-estate you have, or perhaps adding another item to the set, or perhaps halving it.

[mxdata]

Medallion | Treasure | $4*
$1
The next time you play a Copper this turn, +$2 +1 Buy
-
This costs $1 more per Copper you have in play.

Medallion is a Gold+ if you line it up with a Copper, which is easy when you have lots of Coppers. But if you have lots of Coppers, this is harder to buy ... Coppers don't help you buy this card. This similar to the Grand Market restriction, but actually there are a lot of differences. For example, you can buy a Medallion with Medallion/Silver/Copper. If you play with enough heirlooms, you can even open Medallion. Or if there's Bargain/Demand, etc. There's lots of ways to get treasures in play in your Action phase. Why not buy Cavalry/Villa or use Black Market/Storyteller/etc and get 5 coppers in play, then Displace the now $9 cost Medallion into a Colony?

This is strong for its price in many games and you often won't buy Silver. It's a similar thing to me as Destrier often costing much lower, and you won't often buy Lab.

Open to feedback.

Seems a bit strong to me.  In a lot of games, this would be superior to Gold.  Maybe something to prevent it from stacking?  A kind of opposite Fool's Gold, maybe?  "If this is the first Medallion played this turn, +$2 +1 buy the next time you play a Copper", so that additional Medallions are only worth $1

[Mahowrath]

Cablemaker - $3
Action

+1 Buy

You may trash a Copper from your hand. If you did, cards cost $1 less this turn.

I think this is a great idea, but I think it should cost $4. $3 is too strong for this. It's miles above trade route, which, we know is a weak $3, but seeing these two at the same price feels wrong to me. If you use the two buys this card is trash a copper for +$2 +1 Buy which then makes it comparable to Money Lender which is $4. So seeing this and Money Lender at the same price point feels right.
If you compare it to Bridge though, well, Bridge is better at the Payload game, but Cablemaker is not necessarily weaker. Trashing Coppers is great. So, again, this feels like it fits in the realm of $4s.

Thanks for the feedback, and glad you like it. I'm happy to hear this actually; I was worried this might get overlooked at $3 for its poor payload.

I think you're right that this could exist at $4, but I'm not convinced it's too strong for $3. Early game, this is likely to thin and to gain you two $2s if there are good ones. To compare with the cards you've brought up: TR's ability to trash non-Copper seems roughly equivalent to also gaining a peddler, so not sure it's miles better, and Moneylender's ability to thin & hit $5 feels generally stronger. The Copper trashing is a really bad dependency if trying to play for Bridge megaturn, the big benefit of cost reduction, so happy to think of Bridge as a stronger card in a different field.

Medallion | Treasure | $4*
$1
The next time you play a Copper this turn, +$2 +1 Buy
-
This costs $1 more per Copper you have in play.

I like this card. It seems like a ripe target to remodel into, but having a stronger Gold that synergises and antisynergises with Copper is fun.
If you didn't want a bunch of these to fire off on the same Copper; something like "play a Copper, if you do" would do it.

I don't think it's terrible. Commission is a $5 gainer but it's conditional. If a player blocks another from using Commission then they are also blocking themselves on future turns and are turning the Commission they have into a worse card. And is that a trade-off worth making if they can't even be sure that the opponent has a Commission in their hand?

I don't want to include more counting as that makes it take longer to resolve.

Up to you of course, and no one's saying it's terrible. I do think the trade-off of trashing 2 Coppers is always worth making T3 if you haven't seen your opponent's yet, as the disadvantage is roughly symmetric, and the upside of having an extra $5 over your opponent is often decisive. I can see that the additional counting might be a pain though.

[emtzalex]

Medallion | Treasure | $4*
$1
The next time you play a Copper this turn, +$2 +1 Buy
-
This costs $1 more per Copper you have in play.

Medallion is a Gold+ if you line it up with a Copper, which is easy when you have lots of Coppers. But if you have lots of Coppers, this is harder to buy ... Coppers don't help you buy this card. This similar to the Grand Market restriction, but actually there are a lot of differences. For example, you can buy a Medallion with Medallion/Silver/Copper. If you play with enough heirlooms, you can even open Medallion. Or if there's Bargain/Demand, etc. There's lots of ways to get treasures in play in your Action phase. Why not buy Cavalry/Villa or use Black Market/Storyteller/etc and get 5 coppers in play, then Displace the now $9 cost Medallion into a Colony?

This is strong for its price in many games and you often won't buy Silver. It's a similar thing to me as Destrier often costing much lower, and you won't often buy Lab.

Open to feedback.

This does seem a bit too strong. I don't think the price effect is nearly as restrictive in practice as the one on Grand Market. First, you can buy this with two Silvers, and since you can open Silver - Silver ~5/6 of the time, getting this early might come down to the luck of the post-first shuffle draw. Then, as you said, buying more gets even easier. More than that, there are numerous Action cards that would allow you to gain a Medallion outright (Workshop, Ironworks, Armory, Engineer, Inventor, Groom, Artisan, Cobbler, Vampire, Sculptor, etc.) or to trash an Estate to gain it (Remodel, Replace, Butcher, etc.) (or, with Displace, to Exile an Estate to gain this). Then there is Alms, which allows you to open Medallion - Medallion. However, Bargain and Demand are not really helpful in gaining this, as they would require you not to play any Coppers to use them.

There is probably a way to do this. Maybe set the base price at $5 or $6, and then have it cost +$1 for each Copper you have in play and -$1 for each other Treasure you have in play. That still lets you buy it Silver - Silver, but at least makes it harder to get with gainers or remodelers.

[pubby]

Last call for entries. If you're changing an existing entry, post a comment below so I see it.

[anordinaryman]

Modifying entry

Thanks for the feedback everyone.

Medallion | Treasure | $4*
$1
You may play a Copper from your hand. If you do, +$2 +1 Buy
-
This costs $1 more per Copper you have in play.

Each Medallion is now only a gold+ if you have another copper to pair with it, making it considerably harder to activate multiple of them in one turn. Otherwise, without enough coppers, they ironically become coppers themselves.

[pubby]

JUDGEMENT DAY

Marquis (spineflu) - A interesting card that can really twist games around it, though I fear it can force games into unpleasant strategies. When compared to Swamp Hag and Coppersmith, I think I would prefer those two over this one, though this is certainly an alright, playable card.

Provisions (grep) - Obstensibly this is Coppersmith 2.0 - just play at least 2 and you can double your Coppers then trash them. It sounds a lot of fun, but I do worry how quickly this drains the copper pile. It leads to scenarios where one person gets more use out it than the others, and then the card becomes useless with an empty pile. Cool card though.

Tinker (gambit05) - IMO this does Mint's bottom text better than Mint does it. It sounds like a game-warping effect, but not in a broken way. If you open with Tinker, you're still not in a great position to hit $5 afterwards, and so there's an interesting decision in when you should buy this. The top is a nice Peddler variant too. Overall, a well-designed card.

Accountant (silverspawn) - I think you're close to something great, but not quite there. The top text reminds me of Embassy. Seems decent in Money strats, and OK, albeit annoying to play, in engines. The bottom text has some interesting interactions. It lets you open $5 always, and helps certain strategies like Gardens. But I don't think it synergizes as well with the top text as it should, and so the card feels disjointed.

Concession (emtzalex) - I really like the idea of a project that turns Estates into money or trashers, but I'm not convinced doing both at the same time is ideal. I would prefer a simpler take on this, I think, but it's definitely playable as is.

Vagabond/Begging Bowl (Aquila) - Great synergy and very unique effects. I can see these being weak on many boards, but when combined with other attacks, they can be very nasty. I like these two a lot, though perhaps Vagabond should cost $3. That makes the opening more symmetrical.

Picnic (fika monster) - I like everything about this card except the Smithy part. I don't see any reason the card needs to downgrade itself, as putting tons of estates into your deck is a big enough downside. IMO the card would be better as: "+2 Cards, +1 Action. Exile an Estate from the Supply. If you can't, Discard all Estates from Exile."

Green Shelter (majiponi) - Reminds me of Miser, but for Estates. I like it a lot! Seems like a fun, different card, that's simple to understand. My only suggestion would be to draw before the exiling occurs. I think that balances its power better while also reducing the chance that it whiffs.

Cat Burglar (Xen3k) - This card does a bit of everything, but because of that it's hard to say it fits into any particular strategy - a detriment IMO. I think a good comparison is with Tribute. It's fine, playable, and decently designed, but the game doesn't NEED it, so to say.

Codger (Timinou) - This one also reminds me of Miser, but it's too strong though. Miser is interesting because it's a very slow build, but this one starts off decent from the start and quickly turns crazy, gaining value to your deck while also thinning it, without using a Buy. Perhaps without the bottom text, or starting with only 1 Copper Exiled, it would be balanced.

Cablemaker (Mahowrath) - A lovely, simple card. I think the price and powerlevel are perfect. The text could be re-written using "for" (see Moneylender's latest revision).

Vulture (Chappy7) - It just seems bad power-wise when compared to Baron / Moneylender, and the effect is very roundabout. Obviously there are boards where you can make it work (perhaps a Rebuild game), but they seem few and far between.

Commission (faust) - I'm having trouble seeing how this is supposed to work. Seems like it's often random if you get to use it, and I hate how the one player can be locked out of this while another benefits. That's just too big of swing for me to be comfortable with.

Homestead (infangthief) - Nice simplicity, and seems OK power-wise, but it won't have enough impact on enough boards. Just needs a little something else to be viable.

Lease (X-tra) - Another simple card, and one that seems extremely viable to open with. Compared to Moneylender and Baron though, I think I prefer those two cards more.

Cursed Blacksmith (NiCkLeB474) - Dominion could certainly use more effects like this - a huge benefit that hobbles you over time. It seems playable in Money, but I wish it had more use in Engines and Slogs too, which could be accomplished by making it more playable after the curses run. My recommendation would be: "+3 Cards, +1 Buy. Gain a Curse. If you did, +$3." Still, it's a neat submission.

Copper Mine (spheremonk) - Love the bottom text. It seems like a fun alt VP to go for. The top text, however, is kinda mehhh. I'm not a fan of Merchant's wording, so I'm also not a fan of this one, especially because of how unnecessary the condition seems in a deck full of Copper. Just a simple "+$2" would work, no?

Smelter (NoMoreFun) - A fine effect, but not at $5 - it's strictly better than Lab on 99% of boards. Because you gain the Copper to your hand, it's trivial to trash it by playing Smelter immediately after, so I'm not convinced the gaining part does anything interesting without other synergies.

Medallion (anordinaryman) - The edit definitely was an improvement. This card is similar to Gold, but has just enough twists to make it interesting. With that said, I feel like it doesn't add as much to the game as I'd like. I suspect it'd mostly see play when you can gain it with say a workshop, not buy it. It's easiest to get a lot of them that way.

RESULTS


Runner-Ups:
4th - Vagabond/Begging Bowl (Aquila)
3rd - Tinker (gambit05)
2nd - Green Shelter (majiponi)

Winner:
Cablemaker (Mahowrath)

Cablemaker took two beloved effects and combined them in a way that IMO was more interesting than Bridge or Moneylender individually. The card was both simple, and balanced, and although not exactly powerful, could have an effect on every kingdom it was in. There were lots of great entries this week - some more creative and unique - but I felt that Cablemaker was the most ready to be in an actual game. Congrats, Mahowrath!

[mandioca15]

You've missed out my entry (the first reply in this thread, no less).

[Mahowrath]

Many thanks pubby! Also a big fan of Green Shelter, Tinker and Vagabond/Begging Bowl. New thread for next contest to follow shortly.

[pubby]

You've missed out my entry (the first reply in this thread, no less).

Oops, I'm very sorry. I did review it in my head already I just forgot to write it out. This was one of the better cards IMO, but it didn't make the standings.

Manor (mandioca15) - I like the simplicity. It's an excellent card to open with, but after a few shuffles it's as mundane as Smithy. I wish it remained interesting later in the game, perhaps by giving it +2 Buy instead of +1 so that you could always spend 1 of the buys on more Estates. Certainly a nice, playable card, but it lacks the deeper tactics other TfB cards have.