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[ashersky]

Why would ADK support him at every point? Are you saying they are scum, too?

Any number of reasons.  Here are a few:

--ADK is survivor, MiX is mafia and they've already colluded.
--ADK and MiX are the same non-town faction.
--ADK has been duped by MiX (unlikely).
--ADK sees MiX as his ticket to ensuring a faction wins with him alive, either by helping town win or helping town destroy itself.
--ADK suspects MiX is mafia and sees he has been somewhat effective as destroying town's chances, so he's just waiting to win with mafia while playing along with MiX's act and letting MiX think he's convinced.

[ashersky]

Anyway, the important bits:

ADK is a player who is NOT ALIGNED WITH HUMANS.  He does not deny thing point.  He can win with humans, but can just as easily (or perhaps more easily), win with cylons, or others.  There's no reason to count him in the human column.

If mafia get to the point where they can just win with ADK, one mafia can claim, then threaten the NK if he doesn't join them.  And ADK, if he plays to win, which everyone should, will just join them.

ANYONE who says they would rather lose as 3rd party than win as 3rd party with mafia is either lying or should not be allowed to play a game where everyone should be trying to win.

So, ADK is a clear and present danger to town's chances of winning.  There is no argument that can be made against that.  He can make emotional pleas that he prefers to win with town.  There are plenty of things people prefer, but that doesn't change what we do when push comes to shove.

[ashersky]

MiX has made a number of indescribably unbelievable claims and has done nothing to help town win.  He seems to be trying to help ADK win?  He definitely is trying to help himself.

The only person who seems to believe every single word that is typed by MiX is the only player who has confirmed himself as non-town.  Whatever MiX is saying clearly works for him.

The most flabbergasting thing about all of this is MiX could end up being town anyway, regardless of how anti-town he's being.  But, as with Robz, just letting it go helps no one.

When I do clearly anti-town things for my own gain, I expect to get exiled.  I most often do, except when I don't, and then everyone gets upset when I win as mafia or SK and act like they knew the whole time I was bad, even when my alignment was green.  If that was the case, you should have exiled me.  And that is exactly the case with MiX.

[ashersky]

Added bonus of exiling ADK: we ensure he doesn't win, even if town loses.  For anyone who enjoys sour grapes, keep that in mind.

[MiX]

ADK and MiX, I'd like to hear how your alliance developed.  Please paraphrase the conversation in as much detail as possible.

They said "I wanted to be VP so I could claim to you that I am third-party" and then they claimed their alignment and powers. Then I said "cool, that is exactly what my personal goal needed, let's be friends".

Then we talked a lot about a bunch of stuff, which gave ADK an increasingly stronger townread on me.

I'm not sure what else is there. We talked about reads enough that I have theirs and they have mine, and we've talked about power directions to the point where it feels like we are one.

MiX has made a number of indescribably unbelievable claims and has done nothing to help town win.  He seems to be trying to help ADK win?  He definitely is trying to help himself.

The only person who seems to believe every single word that is typed by MiX is the only player who has confirmed himself as non-town.  Whatever MiX is saying clearly works for him.

The most flabbergasting thing about all of this is MiX could end up being town anyway, regardless of how anti-town he's being.  But, as with Robz, just letting it go helps no one.

When I do clearly anti-town things for my own gain, I expect to get exiled.  I most often do, except when I don't, and then everyone gets upset when I win as mafia or SK and act like they knew the whole time I was bad, even when my alignment was green.  If that was the case, you should have exiled me.  And that is exactly the case with MiX.

They're only unbelievable if you don't believe them. I have tried to help town win over and over again, that has been all I've been doing this entire game.

From public information, I can't actually see a reason not to kill ADK. But I'd rather not leave it to chance, and exile Dylan, who is scum.

You can't just exile me as we're in XiLo if ADK is third-party.

Added bonus of exiling ADK: we ensure he doesn't win, even if town loses.  For anyone who enjoys sour grapes, keep that in mind.

ADK has been more town than us. They deserve to win.

[faust]

Vote Count 5.3

Dylan32 (2): MiX, A Drowned Kernel
A Drowned Kernel (1): scolapasta
MiX (1): Dylan32

Not Voting (5): Jack Rudd, SpaceAnemone, WestCoastDidds, EFHW, ashersky

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to exile. Day 5 lasts until April 30, 2021, 04:30:00 am.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Anyway, the important bits:

ADK is a player who is NOT ALIGNED WITH HUMANS.  He does not deny thing point.  He can win with humans, but can just as easily (or perhaps more easily), win with cylons, or others.  There's no reason to count him in the human column.

If mafia get to the point where they can just win with ADK, one mafia can claim, then threaten the NK if he doesn't join them.  And ADK, if he plays to win, which everyone should, will just join them.

ANYONE who says they would rather lose as 3rd party than win as 3rd party with mafia is either lying or should not be allowed to play a game where everyone should be trying to win.

So, ADK is a clear and present danger to town's chances of winning.  There is no argument that can be made against that.  He can make emotional pleas that he prefers to win with town.  There are plenty of things people prefer, but that doesn't change what we do when push comes to shove.

I get where you're coming from here, but there's something I've mentioned before that's relevant: I don't have to be alive in order to win, so scum can't make me collaborate just by threatening to kill me

[WestCoastDidds]

He supposedly has a power where the mod just gives him random, extremely game-changing information on a nightly basis, without having to do anything.

Like, what?  That is terrible game design.  Faust is not a terrible game designer.  Like, is there a deus ex machina in the tv show that is equally terrible and annoying and he had to include it in the game?

If I had claimed that I had a passive power which provides me with mod information to support any argument or post I want to make, would you believe me?

Why would ADK support him at every point? Are you saying they are scum, too?

Didds, I guess ADK told you they were blocking you in the viper qt? Anything else you can about that?

We need to finish the massclaim.

PPE ash

It was a message from faust in the QT...there was some flavor from faust about ADK yelling at us, and then it said that everyone else in qt couldn’t do actions tonight. I assumed it was for the next night because I didn’t pay attention to when it was posted until ADK clarified.

There was almost no talk in the qt last night. LL couldn’t post. I asked one question, ADK answered, then I did some POE stuff for myself, and that was it.

[scolapasta]

I have not yet caught up on anything from overnight, but I wanted to quickly post and say I'll be unavailable for most of the day.

[EFHW]

Shouldn't we finish the massclaim?

[MiX]

Shouldn't we finish the massclaim?

Who are we waiting on?

[EFHW]

Shouldn't we finish the massclaim?

Who are we waiting on?

We claimed flavor, but did we claim power roles? I did, but I don't feel like I know anyone else's.

[SpaceAnemone]

@Space, Why are you assuming scum!Dylan even had a question?

I wasn't, but if scum!Dylan was making up the existence of a question, why would he offer to use that to cop someone for us? Robz's name was one of the first to come up, and we know he's town, so why wouldn't lying scum do something that's easier for scum to steer for their own scummy uses than asking for town input? If town recommends using the cop shot on someone who's town, Dylan either has to put himself in a 1-v-1, or to create an almost-IC. Instead, scum!Dylan could just have faked the result of a cop shot on scum (if that was his aim?), rather than faked asking for advice on a cop shot.

The only explanations I can think of feel really weak, like maybe scum wanted to get town's reads on everyone, or maybe there really was a one-bit question, but scum were the ones who were given it and just wanted to use the thread's creativity to work out the optimal use. Otherwise, I could do with some more-likely-sounding suggestions for what Dylan was up to with the question if he's really scum.

[MiX]

@Space, Why are you assuming scum!Dylan even had a question?

I wasn't, but if scum!Dylan was making up the existence of a question, why would he offer to use that to cop someone for us? Robz's name was one of the first to come up, and we know he's town, so why wouldn't lying scum do something that's easier for scum to steer for their own scummy uses than asking for town input? If town recommends using the cop shot on someone who's town, Dylan either has to put himself in a 1-v-1, or to create an almost-IC. Instead, scum!Dylan could just have faked the result of a cop shot on scum (if that was his aim?), rather than faked asking for advice on a cop shot.

The only explanations I can think of feel really weak, like maybe scum wanted to get town's reads on everyone, or maybe there really was a one-bit question, but scum were the ones who were given it and just wanted to use the thread's creativity to work out the optimal use. Otherwise, I could do with some more-likely-sounding suggestions for what Dylan was up to with the question if he's really scum.

The question he made is basically incapable of outing him: at worst he's in a direct conflict in XiLo. And who's the one that suggested it?

But from a town!Space perspective, I also don't understand. It doesn't seem like a good fakeclaim anyway, and it's pretty far from what the flavor claim would typically be able to do. Overall the claims surrounding Dylan are weird.

[ashersky]

Let's compare two random things...

One player claimed a power to ask one specific question to the mod to gain information about the setup/game/players/etc.  There are some players questions the validity of this claim.

Another player claimed to receive information about the setup/game/players/etc. on a regular basis directly from the mod for free.  No players except for me are questioning this claim.

I'm done with this game.  Please exile me if there are really no intentions to try to win.

[ashersky]

Vote: ADK

MiX is clearly my top mafia read and the only one that matters.  However, I am still convinced the best way to maintain chances of a town win is to remove ADK first. 

I will only post intermittently from now on to avoid prods unless I see enough other players I consider towny to start playing to win.  My level of frustration here is not worth whatever benefit I may be getting from being more active.

I mean, good game and congratulations to the mafia team.  Can't blame them for being frustrating, that's literally their job.

[ashersky]

I get where you're coming from here, but there's something I've mentioned before that's relevant: I don't have to be alive in order to win, so scum can't make me collaborate just by threatening to kill me

Sorry, one more, didn't post my response to this -- clearly a survivor would be expected to lie about this, no?  I mean, that's "how to survive as a survivor" 101.

[scolapasta]

Let's compare two random things...

One player claimed a power to ask one specific question to the mod to gain information about the setup/game/players/etc.  There are some players questions the validity of this claim.

Another player claimed to receive information about the setup/game/players/etc. on a regular basis directly from the mod for free.  No players except for me are questioning this claim.

I'm done with this game.  Please exile me if there are really no intentions to try to win.

I'm not sure you're the only one who is questioning this - I've asked a bunch of different questions of Mix to try to understand this power and to see if what he says about it is consistent. And I posted this some time earlier:

Is it possible that a Survivor MiX lies about one (or more) of these? I doubt it, but I could see him doing that in order to cover for something he'd rather not share.

• first one does feels a little sketchy in that he learned that after Awaclus basically confirmed this for us when telling us he was given a choice to switch. Second one would be a more risky lie as we could verify (but only
• 2nd one is only verifiable once MiX is brigged or incapacitated so why would he care? That said, he'd have had to come up with it and it does seem a reasonable actual design
• 3rd one could be used to get us down the path of brigging people from that wagon

Your post made me want to go back and reread MiX's N4 claim from the beginning of the day. A few things now stand out:

I should probably talk more so people think I'm town beyond a shadow of a doubt. That includes you, ash!

Interesting way to phrase the first sentence. And that he specifically calls out Ash, who is scum reading MiX.  Maybe it means little, but then add to the fact that MiX's first push was to brig as quickly as possible, even before everyone had a chance to check in. My new take is it wasn't necessarily before *everyone* could check in, but specifically maybe ash? Since his time zone is so different than the rest of us...

So, ADK was right: one of the civilians was scum. This makes me feel really good about him, as he's the one that told me to pick Dylan, and I only learned Dylan was scum because he was my vice-president. This also indicates that ADK was not cylon-aligned as I never learned his alignment when they were vice-president, but that's a stretch: I think my information grew in power in a reasonable proportion, so it might've not made sense to say what alignment ADK was before today.

Wait, wait wait. Why would this indicate ANYTHING about ADK? Your power claim was that you learned random things passively. And you have claimed a learned thing for each night already. So when would you have learned anything about ADK? Why would now learning something about Dylan now correlate to anything you learned on a previous night? This really makes zero sense.


Frankly, I don't think this is your actual power. I still think your jury was from an actual power of yours, so you knew you were not immediately brigged, and you used that as an excuse to "reveal" all of this info.

Whether this is from scum Mix or survivor Mix? I don't know. Could it be town Mix? I guess maybe, but I gotta say my general rule is to doubt the towniness of people who make things up.

I've also learned what character Dylan is, but not directly: the flavor implied Dylan is Caprica Six. So that would be a civilian, which makes what ADK was saying.

So you learned both that Dylan is cylon-aligned and his character? Again that seems like a lot of info, from a passive power.

[scolapasta]

Vote: ADK

MiX is clearly my top mafia read and the only one that matters.  However, I am still convinced the best way to maintain chances of a town win is to remove ADK first. 

I will only post intermittently from now on to avoid prods unless I see enough other players I consider towny to start playing to win.  My level of frustration here is not worth whatever benefit I may be getting from being more active.

I mean, good game and congratulations to the mafia team.  Can't blame them for being frustrating, that's literally their job.

Earlier in the day, I was considering a Dylan or MiX vote today with a vote tomorrow on the other if the flip was civilian. I leaned Dylan, but I could vote MiX today, Dylan tomorrow if that's wrong.

But that said, I voted ADK and still am happy there, along the same lines of what you say above. I also think it's a good test to see what MiX will do. From an earlier exchange:

Since my biggest concern with voting or Dylan is that if he is town and there is a 4 scum team that wins the game with that, is there harm in maybe brigging ADK today like space suggests instead? If he is part of the 4 person scum team, great, and if he's not, then we haven't hurt any town (I am not at all convinced by ADK or MiC's oh you can trust us, we want town to win)

It's probably safe, I personally just want the game to be over as fast as possible for my personal goal. I also don't want to gamble on scum being able to take advantage of ADK being dead. Of course, I guess from every other town's perspective you don't want to gamble on me being town...

[scolapasta]

I get where you're coming from here, but there's something I've mentioned before that's relevant: I don't have to be alive in order to win, so scum can't make me collaborate just by threatening to kill me

Sorry, one more, didn't post my response to this -- clearly a survivor would be expected to lie about this, no?  I mean, that's "how to survive as a survivor" 101.

Channeling my inner LaLight (RIP), this is an AMAZING point.

Is there any kind of double or team survivor role? (i.e. could they both be survivors?)

[A Drowned Kernel]

vote: ADK

Probably the best odds I'm gonna get

[faust]

Day 5 Final Vote Count

Dylan32 (1): MiX
A Drowned Kernel (3): scolapasta, ashersky, A Drowned Kernel
MiX (1): Dylan32

Not Voting (3): Jack Rudd, SpaceAnemone, WestCoastDidds, EFHW

With 9 alive, it took 5 to exile.

[faust]

The crisis in the government has deepened, as now the civilian leaders were accusing one another of secretly working for the Cylons. Any semblance of proper governance seems eroded now. Amidst all this chaos, the commander's son himself stepped forward and confessed he had been defying orders. It seems that humanity just can't catch a break...

A Drowned Kernel has been sent to the brig! They were Lee Adama, and they were self-aligned. They had the following powers:

• 1-shot, Day, miscellaneous
• manipulative
• miscellaneous, passive
• 1-shot, blocking

The following executive order is in effect tonight:

Isolate Colonial One
Any action targeting the President tonight will fail.

Night 5 begins now and lasts at least 48 hours. Night actions are due by April 26, 2021, 07:00:00 pm.

Thread locked!

[faust]

That night, they attacked in force. The resources on Galactica were already stretched thin. The Cylon fleet jumped into view just as inside Galactica, bombs detonated. Our Viper pilots fought back as best they could, but it was nowhere near enough. With such an overwhelming enemy presence, the President quickly determined that humanity did not stand a chance in the fight.

We all expected to be wiped out by Cylon bombs; it did not come to this. Instead, they accepted our surrender. A short time after, an announcement was broadcast among the fleet.

"People of the Twelve Colonies! We did not come here seeking further destruction. We believe that it is possible for Cylons and humans to coexist peacefully, and we want to prove it. This is not the end, but it can be a new beginning. We have come to take you home."

Suvivor count: 34,865

EFHW has been incapacitated! They were Anastasia "Dee" Dualla, and they were human-aligned. They had the following powers:

• miscellaneous, Day
• 1-shot, investigative
• 2-shot, manipulative

SpaceAnemone has been incapacitated! They were Felix Gaeta, and they were human-aligend. They had the following powers:

• investigative
• 1-shot, killing

WestCoastDidds has been incapacitated! They were Kara Thrace, and they were human-aligned. They had the following powers:

• miscellaneous, passive
• protective, killing
• 1-shot, miscellaneous

MiX and ashersky have been endgamed! The scum team of Dylan32, Jack Rudd and scolapasta wins! A Drowned Kernel wins as well!

Season 1 has concluded! Everyone may post in this thread again.

This is the link to the speccy: https://www.quicktopic.com/53/H/p4csSuAPbwLz

[faust]

The following card is removed form the executive order deck:

Mandate testing
Pick another player. The next Cylon test available will be performed on that player, if they are still alive by that time.

Turning point triggered: The game ends Night 5 or sooner.

Everything happened so quickly.. we have barely had time to mourn what we have lost.

The following card is shuffled into the executive order deck:

Vigil
Tonight, all players who control the same character they did the previous game may use an active power they had in that game instead of their current powers. Powers with limited shots may only be used if the shots have not yet been used up.