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[MiX]

Vote: EFHW

What were your targets? What have you learned?

[Robz888]

I don't actually think it helps anything for me to elaborate further.

[MiX]

I don't actually think it helps anything for me to elaborate further.

Can I take this as a confession of not acting totally and completely in favor of humans?

Someone that knows the flavor put a quote that says sorta what I'm (trying to) say, if one exists.

[SpaceAnemone]

Regarding testing me, I don't see the point today, but would becwilling tomorrow assuming my continued survival.

The point today would be to see whether the test comes up as I set it, or if something else is going on. It's not super-useful information on its own, like knowing if there might be a third controller out there, or maybe some kind of scum interference messing with the results. There really doesn't seem to be any down-side to using the test: there's no indication that it's shot-limited by anything other than the survival of the people who're setting it up, and both people who've been tested so far haven't reported any ill effects.

I'm kind of puzzled by EFHW's unwillingness to go for it, hence feeling like it's something to push a little. If nobody else wants to push that, though, does anyone mind if I go for it myself, just so we don't completely waste the opportunity to use it and see what happens?

[MiX]

Regarding testing me, I don't see the point today, but would becwilling tomorrow assuming my continued survival.

The point today would be to see whether the test comes up as I set it, or if something else is going on. It's not super-useful information on its own, like knowing if there might be a third controller out there, or maybe some kind of scum interference messing with the results. There really doesn't seem to be any down-side to using the test: there's no indication that it's shot-limited by anything other than the survival of the people who're setting it up, and both people who've been tested so far haven't reported any ill effects.

I'm kind of puzzled by EFHW's unwillingness to go for it, hence feeling like it's something to push a little. If nobody else wants to push that, though, does anyone mind if I go for it myself, just so we don't completely waste the opportunity to use it and see what happens?

Yes, I mind, the person in charge of testing shouldn't be the one tested. Since I could (somehow) be lying about my involvement, it should be someone that isn't either of us.

Also, you should probably say what you picked before we test, I don't remember if you did.

Honestly it doesn't matter, but I think it would be better to not do it at all than do it in a way that is questionable.

[Dylan32]

So here is the result from my claim, phrased carefully to communicate exactly what I asked and the answer without quoting anything.

There is an odd number of cylon-aligned players in {MiX, Space, LaLight, Jack, Didds}.

[SpaceAnemone]

does anyone mind if I go for it myself, just so we don't completely waste the opportunity to use it and see what happens?

Yes, I mind, the person in charge of testing shouldn't be the one tested.

Why not? Once we've set it up, it's a public resource and anyone can submit. I think if I refuse to be tested, I'd be setting a double standard: maybe the test will suggest I'm a cylon and have suspicion levels raised, but everyone who's tested faces that same risk, so there's nothing special about being the one who calibrates it.

My "if nobody minds" was more geared towards finding out if anyone (maybe Ash?) had some desire to take the test instead, if we're establishing that EFHW is refusing. I don't think I have a lot of respect for a suggestion that I should be banned from taking the test on principle if nobody else wants to do so and I do.

Also, you should probably say what you picked before we test, I don't remember if you did.

Oh, I thought I'd said that I'll reveal that only after we run the test. Given that we don't expect the test result to be useful except in revealing if it's been tampered with, and since town has to take my word for it ether way, I think there's no more information given out if I say so before or after, is there? If that's the case, I'd prefer to be the one interpreting whether a possible difference between what I say and what we observe is due to me lying or something else messing with the power :-)

Honestly it doesn't matter, but I think it would be better to not do it at all than do it in a way that is questionable.

It was questionable both nights so far, in that we have never hit the one-human-one-cylon setting, unless you lied about what you set it to. I think if there's a risk of RBs or similar out there who could mess with our ability, it will always be a little bit questionable. I just want to see now whether we see quirks that might make us more or less trusting of future results.

PPE 1: exciting result!

[Dylan32]

At this point, if we want to vote from in the set, I would vote Jack. If outside, I would go Robz.

[MiX]

Boring result. How are we going to exile based off it? Well, I think Robz is scum, so getting the first red flip shouldn't matter as much if so.

The scum in that group is Didds. That's followed by Jack, then Space. It doesn't reach LL. But I'm not very confident in these reads.

[MiX]

Boring result. How are we going to exile based off it? Well, I think Robz is scum, so getting the first red flip shouldn't matter as much if so.

The scum in that group is Didds. That's followed by Jack, then Space. It doesn't reach LL. But I'm not very confident in these reads.

Actually, we can be a bit more rigorous with this: with this results, the order of likeliness of people being scum that are involved, for me, are: Didds > Jack > Dylan > Space >> LL >>> MiX

[Dylan32]

So I just went to my QT to ask my question, and I realized that my concern about ADK's win condition for this game was based on misreading things in my QT, so that's not a concern for me at all besides the usual "can this 3rd party win with town?" and I have no personal reason to find out beyond winning this game. There are no special end-states or anything I had mentioned that I am seeking besides just winning. I can't be more specific without direct quoting, but I needed to point this out since I had mentioned being worried about it earlier.

Did you ask the question then? Which one?

At that point I asked but was waiting for an answer. The stuff I misread was from something earlier in the game which had originally made me think using the question about ADK was more helpful for me than it actually would have been, and I'm glad I talked about it instead of just asking since it would have been a waste of the ability.

[MiX]

So I just went to my QT to ask my question, and I realized that my concern about ADK's win condition for this game was based on misreading things in my QT, so that's not a concern for me at all besides the usual "can this 3rd party win with town?" and I have no personal reason to find out beyond winning this game. There are no special end-states or anything I had mentioned that I am seeking besides just winning. I can't be more specific without direct quoting, but I needed to point this out since I had mentioned being worried about it earlier.

Did you ask the question then? Which one?

At that point I asked but was waiting for an answer. The stuff I misread was from something earlier in the game which had originally made me think using the question about ADK was more helpful for me than it actually would have been, and I'm glad I talked about it instead of just asking since it would have been a waste of the ability.

Are you town? I know your character won't ever be "town", but do you have the town win con?

[SpaceAnemone]

So here is the result from my claim, phrased carefully to communicate exactly what I asked and the answer without quoting anything.

There is an odd number of cylon-aligned players in {MiX, Space, LaLight, Jack, Didds}.

Awesome! Thank you for going through with that test :-) If we assume this is true, and that there are 2-3 cylons overall, that almost certainly means exactly 1 from the test group, and then 1-2 from {ADK, Ash, EFHW, Scola, Robz}.

I would propose that we start with a Jack exile, as I suggested earlier. If Jack flips cylon-aligned, that gives us more trust in LL's results, which I think suggest that EFHW is a cylon, though I  would really like some more confirmation on that before proposing that she should be under scrutiny tomorrow. If Jack flips not-cylon-aligned, I guess LL would be my next pick, though of course there's also the obvious choice of flipping Dylan just to be sure.

On the off-chance there's an early rush for deadline since a lot of players are in US timezones, I'll drop a vote now:
Vote: Jack

Also, MiX, I intend to calibrate to "human" tonight, so would you like to do the complement to that so we can finally get this test working? If we have a possible third controller, maybe the best they could do would be to flip a coin in case we're messed up by RBs or worse.

PPE 5

[MiX]

So here is the result from my claim, phrased carefully to communicate exactly what I asked and the answer without quoting anything.

There is an odd number of cylon-aligned players in {MiX, Space, LaLight, Jack, Didds}.

Awesome! Thank you for going through with that test :-) If we assume this is true, and that there are 2-3 cylons overall, that almost certainly means exactly 1 from the test group, and then 1-2 from {ADK, Ash, EFHW, Scola, Robz}.

I would propose that we start with a Jack exile, as I suggested earlier. If Jack flips cylon-aligned, that gives us more trust in LL's results, which I think suggest that EFHW is a cylon, though I  would really like some more confirmation on that before proposing that she should be under scrutiny tomorrow. If Jack flips not-cylon-aligned, I guess LL would be my next pick, though of course there's also the obvious choice of flipping Dylan just to be sure.

On the off-chance there's an early rush for deadline since a lot of players are in US timezones, I'll drop a vote now:
Vote: Jack

Also, MiX, I intend to calibrate to "human" tonight, so would you like to do the complement to that so we can finally get this test working? If we have a possible third controller, maybe the best they could do would be to flip a coin in case we're messed up by RBs or worse.

PPE 5

Yes, I was planning to do cylon anyway based on your N2 action.

I don't think we should do anything other than exile Robz: I'm fairly certain he just claimed scum, and there's no way we can exile anyone else. I think you will most likely miss deadline, so please leave a vote on Robz.

[MiX]

Vote Count 4.5

Robz888 (4): Jack Rudd, A Drowned Kernel, MiX, scolapasta
A Drowned Kernel (1): Robz888
EFHW (2): LaLight, WestCoastDidds
WestCoastDidds (1): EFHW

Not Voting (3): Dylan32, ashersky, SpaceAnemone

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to exile. Day 4 ends April 21, 2021, 08:30:00 am. This is in roughly 29 hours.

Look at the VC: we're not getting 6 votes on scum!Jack. There's no way that happens.

[ashersky]

So here is the result from my claim, phrased carefully to communicate exactly what I asked and the answer without quoting anything.

There is an odd number of cylon-aligned players in {MiX, Space, LaLight, Jack, Didds}.

Awesome! Thank you for going through with that test :-) If we assume this is true, and that there are 2-3 cylons overall, that almost certainly means exactly 1 from the test group, and then 1-2 from {ADK, Ash, EFHW, Scola, Robz}.

Mafia!space reducing the possibility for their group.

[ashersky]

The result just means 1, 3, or 5 of the players in that group are cylon-aligned.  Nothing more, nothing less.

For any given player in that group who is not cylon-aligned, they know the actual answer is 1 or 3.

Had ADK been included in the group, you could have definitively taken 5 off the table (probably, assuming we believe him).

At this point, MiX and Space are incredibly strong cylon-aligned reads, so 3 seems most likely to me.  That seems unlikely, but what can I say?  The info isn't the best.

[ashersky]

Also, everyone assuming exactly 3 cylon-aligned, or most likely it's three, or whatever, just stop.

14 players opens up a lot of space.  With third parties and RMM interactions, I'd put the minimum at 4 and maximum at 6.5 non-town players.  How many of those are Cylon-aligned?  Can't know what unless you are cylon-aligned, and maybe not even then.

Using these assumptions only serves to obfuscate.

[MiX]

Hi ash!

Will you be around for deadline? If not, can you please put a vote on Robz?

[WestCoastDidds]

Boring result. How are we going to exile based off it? Well, I think Robz is scum, so getting the first red flip shouldn't matter as much if so.

The scum in that group is Didds. That's followed by Jack, then Space. It doesn't reach LL. But I'm not very confident in these reads.

You are completely wrong about me. I only care that town wins, but if being wrong about me is going to keep you derailed from that goal, please figure it out.

[WestCoastDidds]

I’m going to vote for Robz before I go to bed in about an hour. Since ash is around this is essentially E-1, so fair warning

[EFHW]

I don't think Robz is scum. vote: Jack

[EFHW]

At this point, if we want to vote from in the set, I would vote Jack. If outside, I would go Robz.

I think we should definitely vote from the set.

[EFHW]

At this point, if we want to vote from in the set, I would vote Jack. If outside, I would go Robz.

I think we should definitely vote from the set.

Though with Dylan being null, I guess it doesn't matter.  I don't see how Space can be so confident there is exactly one in the test group. I feel like Dylan's question was essentially wasted.

[ashersky]

We're like 10 hours away?  I'll be back before that.