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[faust]

Welcome to Battlestar Galactica Legacy Mafia!

Mod: faust

This is a closed game for 14 players. It is designed as the first installment in a series of four games, where ideally the same player set would play each game. Please consider whether you would be ready to play in the subsequent games when you sign up.

Players:
1. Jack Rudd - Cylon-aligned Leoben Conoy, survived
2. SpaceAnemone - Human-aligned Felix Gaeta, incapacitated N5
3. WestCoastDidds - Human-aligned Kara "Starbuck" Thrace, incapacitated N5
4. MiX - Human-aligend Gaius Baltar, endgamed
5. EFHW - Human-aligned Anastasia "Dee" Dualla, incapacitated N5
6. scolapasta - Cylon-aligned Number Five, survived
7. LaLight - Human-aligend Karl "Helo" Agathon, incapacitated N4
8. Dylan32 - Cylon-aligned Caprica Six, survived
9. A Drowned Kernel - Self-aligned Lee Adama, sent to the brig D5
10. Swowl - Human-aligned Sharon "Boomer" Valerii, incapacitated N3
11. Robz888 - Human-aligned Callandra Henderson, sent to the brig D4, killed postgame
12. ashersky - Human-aligned Galen Tyrol, endgamed
13. Awaclus - Human-aligned Billy Keikeya, incapacitated N2
14. mathdude - Human-aligned Laura Roslin, incapacitated D1

Spectators tagged: infangthief
Substitutes/waiting list: jotheonah, gkrieg13, Galzria

Day starts: Day 1 | Day 2 | Day 3 | Day 4 | Day 5 | Game end | Postgame modifications

General rules

Changes to the usual rule sets are marked in olive.

The Golden Rule:

Please remember that this is a game and your main objective is to have fun!  Be considerate of each other, don’t get personal, and enjoy the game. Please read The Civility Pledge before signing up for any mafia game on this site.  If you have not /pledged there, you cannot play. Excessive personal attacks or uncivil behavior may be dealt with by modifiers or modkills.

1. General Gameplay and Etiquette:

1. You may not quote information (either real or fabricated) from any game-related source other than the thread you are posting in. This means no quotes from PMs and no quotes from QTs in the main thread or in another QT. Paraphrasing is acceptable. If you are unsure whether a post is legal, please ask the moderator before posting.
2. There is to be NO personal communication outside of the forum postings and the QTs specifically designed for this purpose.
3. As a general rule you should aim for one post every 12 hours, minimum, to keep the game moving.

2. Voting, Deadlines, and Player Death:

1. Day phases will last 7 days, Night lasts at least 48 hours. Night action deadline is 36 hours after night start.
2. A simple majority (rounded up) of all living members must agree on one person for an exile to occur prior to deadline.
3. Once you have reached a simple majority no further unvoting will change someone’s fate. Further votes will also be ignored.
4. Once a player is exiled, the game enters twilight until the mod locks the thread; all players including the one who was exiled may continue to post during twilight.
5. If the deadline is hit without a player reaching the majority of votes, there will be no exile.
6. Please submit votes as: Vote: PlayerName.  Votes in another format may or may not be counted. This is up to the mod's discretion. Obvious abbreviations or nicknames will be counted so long as they are unambiguous.
7. Please submit vote revocations Unvote. Unvotes are not necessary before changing votes.
8. You may Vote: No Exile - a simple majority of these vote types are required to send the game to Night phase without an exile.
10. Any time you are dead (either via exile or night kill) you may no longer post in the game or in shared Quicktopics. This means that you do not even get a “Bah” post. The dead in this game are silent.
11. If the thread is locked, you may not post.  Threads can be locked for various reasons, but no matter what the reason, you may not post.  The mod may forget to lock the thread, but if they say it is locked, it is still locked.

3. Miscellaneous/Mechanics:

1. Bold, olive text is reserved for the mod.  No invisible/small text is allowed, nor is cryptography.
2. If you have an issue/problem with the game, please discuss this in your role QT.  Do not post issues/complaints in the game thread.
3. The Mods may make mistakes - please point out any mistakes gently.  Mistakes will be corrected where possible, but sometimes mistakes are made that cannot be reversed.  These will stand as final to be commiserated over after the game.
4. Please bold all requests to the Mods so that they don’t get missed.
5. Prods of missing players may be issued after 24 hours of no activity.  A prodded player has 24 hours to respond or risks replacement.  A player who has been prodded 2 times is subject to replacement under rule 3.9 without further notice. Players with announced VLA are exempt from this rule the first time it happens.
6. If you anticipate being unavailable for more than a 48-hour period please post a notice to that effect in the thread.  Treat this game as a commitment.  Be considerate – don’t leave us hanging. Players who fail to post for 48 hours without an announcement risk being subject to replacement and/or being modkilled without further notice.
7. Please do not discuss ongoing games, it can unintentionally affect the other game. Do not discuss this game in any thread that is not directly related to it.
8. Rule violations will be dealt with according to their severity, which may include modkill(s) if needed.
9. Players who discover they are too busy to play in a game or want to leave the game for civility issues are not allowed to officially /out in the thread.  A request to /out must only be done via a post in the role QT. Please do not use this as a manipulation technique.  (Note players may continue to threaten to /out or imply that they might as long as it does not include an official request). Requests to /out are final once submitted. There will be no /outing and then /inning back into the game so make sure that when you /out you have thought it through and really want to do it. Players that can't be replaced will simply be mod-killed. Whether your request to /out will lead to replacement or a modkill is up to the mod's discretion.

[faust]

Legacy Rules

Scoring.
Players get points in each consecutive game. Winning a game awards 5 points as town. Other factions' benefits may differ. Another way to score points are character arcs, see below. The player(s) with the highest score when the game ends will be considered the overall winner(s). Scores are generally secret.

Turning points.
Certain powers, or game states, trigger turning points. If an individual player has a power that triggers a turning point, they will know. Turning points based on game states are public knowledge. In general, it will not be clear what effects a given turning point has until it is reached.

Character arcs.
Each charcter has a unique character arc, which is a goal they want to achieve for additional points. To prevent players playing against their win condition in any given game, these will usually only be obtainable when the player won a game. Character arc success is usually checked at the end of the game. If successful, the character may become unplayable or get a new arc. Completing a character arc counts as a turning point.

Flavor, death and exile.
Since the idea is to play the same character over multiple games, elimination from the game will not usually be flavored as dying. Instead, exiled players are sent to the brig and player that are killed by other means are incapacitated. It may be possible by certain abilities to permanently remove characters from the campaign.

Character persistence.
Every player may keep the character that they played from one game to the next, unless they have been eliminated from the game. Role and alignment will change from one game to the next, the character arc remains intact. Alternatively, they may choose another character, which will be chosen from the pool of available characters. A player may receive a character that has previously been played by someone else this way.

Game end.
All players communally pick one permanent rule change to affect future games. The winning players may select one additional rule change. Individual players may be able to make choices for their characters. The President may execute one character that was sent to the brig. That character will die and be removed from the campaign. Doing so triggers a turning point.

[faust]

Season 1 Rules

General gameplay

The game alternates between Day phase and Night phase. The Day phase lasts 7 days, the Night phase lasts 48 hours. Any Night actions need to be submitted at least 36 hours after Night start.

The Day phase ends either when the 7 days have passed, or when an exile has been reached. If there was no exile prior to the deadline, then the game will move the Night without exile. An exile is reached when a majority of living players votes for the same player. Whenever a new phase begins, all players should carefully check the game thread as well as any QT they have access to before posting anywhere.

When a player leaves the game through exile or killing action, their flavor name and alignment will be revealed. Additionally, the types of powers they possess at the time of death are revealed. You can see these in italics in your powers.

Game-specific classifications

All players are either human or Cylon. By default, players are unaware of their species. This is not the same as alignment.

Additionally, all players are classified as either civilian or military. Players are aware of their own status at all times. This is also not the same as alignment.

In general, these classification are inspired by the flavor of the series, though liberties have been taken. Flavor knowledge is not required to play, but may enhance the experience.

Town is flavored as human-aligned this game. The town win condition is

You win when all threats to the human population have been eliminated, or nothing can stop that from happening. You earn 5 points from winning.

The Presidency

There are two special distributable roles in the game: the President and Vice President. They have the following role powers.

President

Executive order. At the start of each Day, draw three cards from the Executive Order deck. You must pick one of them to enact within the first 72 hours of the Day. If you miss this deadline, a random order will be enacted. Orders are executed instantaneously when you submit the order. If the Day ends before you submit an order, there will be no order executed that Day.

Pick Vice President. When you obtain this role, and every even Night after it, you have 36 hours to select another player. That player will receive the role of Vice President.

Colonial One. You have a QT with your Vice President, open at all times.

Vice President.

Next in line. When the President is removed from the game, you obtain their power.

Colonial One. You have a QT with the President, open at all times.

It is public knowledge who holds the office of President and Vice President. If at any time, both roles are unassigned, trigger a turning point. The Presidency is a civilian office. If at any time, a member of the military obtains the role of President, they have a choice to let go of all their role powers. If they do not, trigger a turning point.

The contents of the Executive Order deck are public knowledge. At game start, they are as follows:

Civilian jurisdiction Today, an exile will occur even if the game ends without a majority on a player. At the end of this day, the exile is the player with the most civilian votes rather than the player with the most votes.	Curfew For any action a player takes the following Night, they will take one fewer vote to exile on the Day after.	Military police force Any military player gains the power: "You may target one other player tonight, to learn which players they targeted that night." tonight only. Military players' actions cannot be detected tonight.
Presidential pardon At the end of the Day, the President may choose to pardon the exiled player. If they do, the exiled player does not flip and is not sent to the brig. They have 12 hours to make the decision, during which the thread remains open.	Isolate Colonial One Any action targeting the President tonight will fail.	Prioritize Choose either military or civilians. The chosen group's actions cannot be blocked or redirected tonight, and break through one layer of protection. Players from the other group may only perform one action tonight.
Mandate testing Pick another player. The next Cylon test available will be performed on that player, if they are still alive by that time.

Whenever you would draw from the Executive Order deck and there are less than 3 cards left, shuffle all cards into the deck.

Turning Points

There are some events the trigger turning points which are publicly known. They are as follows:

• Day 2 begins
• the roles of both President and Vice President are unassigned
• a member of the military becomes President and refuses to give up their role powers
• the President or Vice President are sent to the brig
• the President is incapacitated at Night
• the game ends Night 5 or earlier

[faust]

I reserved spots for all who previously expressed interest, but please reconfirm your signup here. I think the game will probably not start until Conference Call Mafia is close to wrapping up.

[SpaceAnemone]

Very /in :-)

[scolapasta]

report/ing for duty

A couple of questions: will any of the cylons know they're cylons? or will they all be unaware at the start? (and will "species" stay consistent for characters across games?

[LaLight]

confirm/ing!

I have no idea about flavor though

[MiX]

/in

I see the president's also playing Battlestar Galactica.

Do the players know when someone swaps characters between games?

[Jack Rudd]

/in

[Awaclus]

I'm tentatively /interested but if it's starting very soon, I might have to drop out before it does.

[faust]

I'm tentatively /interested but if it's starting very soon, I might have to drop out before it does.

I'm pretty sure that it won't start for another 2 weeks .

[WestCoastDidds]

Yeah hooray! Still /in!

[mathdude]

Out D-1 my first game (exiled by my own town mates!). Time to try again.
/in

[faust]

A couple of questions: will any of the cylons know they're cylons? or will they all be unaware at the start? (and will "species" stay consistent for characters across games?

Good questions! Unfortunately not of the sort that I will answer 

Do the players know when someone swaps characters between games?

It will not be public knowledge, but in rare cases it might be possible for one player to gain control of a character that another player gave up.

[jotheonah]

/in, assuming familiarity with BSG is not a pre-requisite.

[mathdude]

Whenever a new phase begins, all players should carefully check the game thread as well as any QT they have access to before posting anywhere.

Will this reminder be posted in-thread as well, with each new phase?  (I'm not used to going to check QT in Mafia games - just getting started on this forum here, and I'm used to using private messages on the forum only for communication).

confirm/ing!

I have no idea about flavor though

I know nothing about the flavour either.

/in, assuming familiarity with BSG is not a pre-requisite.

Hoping for the same!

Also, the set-up looks a bit confusing to me.  There are a lot of extra layers.  But I will assume it runs somewhat similar to a regular mafia game, just with some extra interactions and complexity.  I'll read the details a couple more times before game starts, and probably post some questions, but I'm sure I'll pick it up as we go.

[faust]

/in, assuming familiarity with BSG is not a pre-requisite.

With the reserved spots, and the new sign-ups, there is currently no space left  But if someone doesn't confirm, I will give you that slot.

[faust]

Also, the set-up looks a bit confusing to me.  There are a lot of extra layers.  But I will assume it runs somewhat similar to a regular mafia game, just with some extra interactions and complexity.  I'll read the details a couple more times before game starts, and probably post some questions, but I'm sure I'll pick it up as we go.

The setup is certainly complicated. RMM stands for "Role Madness Mafia" around here; i.e. games where basically everyone gets a special role. The basic structure is as in a regular mafia game, but there is a lot more going on. Also this is the first installment in a series of 4 games. I would give preference to the players who feel up to sticking around for the whole series.

[infangthief]

I can't do 1 game, let alone 4, but /speccy please.

[mathdude]

Also, the set-up looks a bit confusing to me.  There are a lot of extra layers.  But I will assume it runs somewhat similar to a regular mafia game, just with some extra interactions and complexity.  I'll read the details a couple more times before game starts, and probably post some questions, but I'm sure I'll pick it up as we go.

The setup is certainly complicated. RMM stands for "Role Madness Mafia" around here; i.e. games where basically everyone gets a special role. The basic structure is as in a regular mafia game, but there is a lot more going on. Also this is the first installment in a series of 4 games. I would give preference to the players who feel up to sticking around for the whole series.

Oh I'm in for the series. No worries there.

[EFHW]

/still in. Thanks for saving my spot!

[A Drowned Kernel]

/in

[gkrieg13]

/sub or in if someone doesn’t respond.

[Dylan32]

Still in

[Galzria]

Might as well /sub if needed. No intention to play rn but if somebody is needed over the 4 series, I can help out.

[ashersky]

/tag

[faust]

/tag

Should I count this as a confirmation?

[ashersky]

/tag

Should I count this as a confirmation?

Ha!  Yes.  I thought I missed out for some reason.

[Swowl]

still /in

[Swowl]

Would it be possible for there to be a sort of swap of characters that happens between two players in the game over the course of the games?
And if it is, would the player that originally had the character in question know additional information about the player that picked up their previous character?

[scolapasta]

Does () around my name in the first post mean I haven't checked in? Because I checked in several posts above.

[faust]

Does () around my name in the first post mean I haven't checked in? Because I checked in several posts above.

Sorry, missed that!

[faust]

I would aim to have this game start around March 15. Does that work for everyone?

[WestCoastDidds]

3.15 is good for me!

[Robz888]

Still in!

[faust]

Would it be possible for there to be a sort of swap of characters that happens between two players in the game over the course of the games?
And if it is, would the player that originally had the character in question know additional information about the player that picked up their previous character?

It may be possible. The character arcs would usually remain the same, so that would be information available to the original player. Role information and alignment will change between games usually.

I think there will be a bonus to incentivize keeping a character.

[Awaclus]

I would aim to have this game start around March 15. Does that work for everyone?

Works for me.

[Jack Rudd]

Sounds good to me.

[LaLight]

works for me!

[A Drowned Kernel]

Will player's scores be public knowledge?

[A Drowned Kernel]

Nevermind, just read the part where it says scores are generally secret. Good to know

The 15th is fine by me

[Swowl]

Good with the schedule over here!

[mathdude]

The day after Pi-Day... got it.  Sounds good.
*reminds self to get some pie next weekend*

[EFHW]

Fine with me. Ides of March, very appropriate.

[faust]

Alright! PMs are out! The game will likely start tomorrow if everyone checks in on time.

Happy Pi Day!

[Jack Rudd]

So say we all.

[faust]

THREAD LOCKED!

[faust]

If oyu have not yet done so, please confirm that you have received your role QT by posting there or in any QT you have access to. Players who fail to do so within 48 hours will be subject to replacement.

[faust]

The devastating attack on the colonies only days past, Battlestar Galactica leads what is likely to be the last remnants of humanity through space. The Cylon attackers have lost you - for now. This fragile security is not going to last. To make matters worse, you learned that Cylons can now appear as humans. Are they already among you? The fleet is oscillating between paranoia, grief and despair.

Suvivor count: 47,973

mathdude is the President of the Colonies!

Day 1 begins! Thread unlocked!

Vote Count 1.0

Not Voting (14): Jack Rudd, SpaceAnemone, WestCoastDidds, MiX, EFHW, scolapasta, LaLight, Dylan32, A Drowned Kernel, Swowl, Robz888, ashersky, Awaclus, mathdude

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to exile. Day 1 ends March 23, 2021, 03:30:00 am.

[MiX]

Hi everyone! Swowl's back to being a player, and this game has been deemed interesting enough for Awaclus to join, this is going to be fun!

Vote: scola for winning as scum, I forgot what I learned from that game as it's been a while, but let's relearn it.

Jack Rudd, I don't think I've played with you yet...in fact you haven't played mafia in f.ds at all? I've seen you around in the forum though.

Oh, that means you haven't pledged! You should check that out. How much have you played? How much do you know about mafia? Have you read past f.ds games?

And math's president, how exciting! I have a plan with regards to the president, but I want to wait a bit before I say it.

[ashersky]

You know the military/civilian thing?  Anyone notice anything strange about that?

[ashersky]

You know the military/civilian thing?  Anyone notice anything strange about that?

Never mind.  I see the setup post was updated recently.

[MiX]

You know the military/civilian thing?  Anyone notice anything strange about that?

Never mind.  I see the setup post was updated recently.

Which part were you referring to that was updated?

[A Drowned Kernel]

Hello all

Swowl and lalight are getting day one passes from me

[LaLight]

Hi everyone! Swowl's back to being a player, and this game has been deemed interesting enough for Awaclus to join, this is going to be fun!

Vote: scola for winning as scum, I forgot what I learned from that game as it's been a while, but let's relearn it.

Jack Rudd, I don't think I've played with you yet...in fact you haven't played mafia in f.ds at all? I've seen you around in the forum though.

Oh, that means you haven't pledged! You should check that out. How much have you played? How much do you know about mafia? Have you read past f.ds games?

And math's president, how exciting! I have a plan with regards to the president, but I want to wait a bit before I say it.

iirc Jack was playing a lot in the old days. Or was it Codenames? Anyway I remember them very fondly

Also cool to be back. Also also I can't vote and can't be voted, here's something to discuss if you want

[LaLight]

vote: MiX

Request vote count

[MiX]

vote: MiX

Request vote count

Vote: LaLight

Yeah that sounds like something we should know upfront.

[Jack Rudd]

I've played a lot of Codenames; haven't really played Mafia. I think I followed the first game ever played on this forum, in which theory made the memorable quote "this crow is delicious".

[Dylan32]

Vote: LaLight for making my usual opening vote more useless than normal.

[LaLight]

Vote: LaLight for making my usual opening vote more useless than normal.

i really chuckled in this

[MiX]

Vote: LaLight for making my usual opening vote more useless than normal.

Vote: Dy... oh I need to wait for the VC first. I presume you mean more useful?

I've played a lot of Codenames; haven't really played Mafia. I think I followed the first game ever played on this forum, in which theory made the memorable quote "this crow is delicious".

That checks out with why I thought you had played...at all. Well, I'll just let others that know you more introduce you to the game.

Vote: LaLight for making my usual opening vote more useless than normal.

i really chuckled in this

You get a daypass for this. Not that my read on you matters today (or the daypass), but since it's anti-town to read you today, might as well put you as town.

[Dylan32]

Vote: LaLight for making my usual opening vote more useless than normal.

Vote: Dy... oh I need to wait for the VC first. I presume you mean more useful?
--snip--

No, I mean... well, yes, I guess this actually does have more  technical value than it does normally, since I don't normally try to get info from it the same way Galz asks you why you aren't scum every game.

To that point, since he's not here, why aren't you scum this game?

[MiX]

Vote: LaLight for making my usual opening vote more useless than normal.

Vote: Dy... oh I need to wait for the VC first. I presume you mean more useful?
--snip--

No, I mean... well, yes, I guess this actually does have more  technical value than it does normally, since I don't normally try to get info from it the same way Galz asks you why you aren't scum every game.

To that point, since he's not here, why aren't you scum this game?

Even if I am, you should believe I'm not, it helps my win condition. Because I didn't get a scum role.

Back at you: why are you interacting with me, knowing I will be active throughout this day (as I do all D1s) instead of someone else?

[EFHW]

Oh, this started! It's already been read 544 times! I'll catch up tonight.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Vote: LaLight for making my usual opening vote more useless than normal.

Vote: Dy... oh I need to wait for the VC first. I presume you mean more useful?

vote: dylan

There, I got you

[faust]

Vote Count 1.1

scolapasta (1): MiX
Dylan32 (1): A Drowned Kernel

Not Voting (12): Jack Rudd, SpaceAnemone, WestCoastDidds, EFHW, scolapasta, LaLight, Dylan32, Swowl, Robz888, ashersky, Awaclus, mathdude

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to exile. Day 1 ends March 23, 2021, 03:30:00 am.

[MiX]

Vote: Dylan

Checks out. How come it takes 8 to exile though?

[Jack Rudd]

Simple majority, innit. 7 is exactly half, and you need more than that.

[MiX]

Simple majority, innit. 7 is exactly half, and you need more than that.

Well, considering LL can't vote, we only really have 13 people that can vote. If there's 5 players that aren't town aligned (and if LL's town), which is possible, we'd need every town player to vote for scum to exile them. This mainly tells me there's more vote shenanigans going on this game, as otherwise it would be perfectly fine for faust to confirm something's going on by making it 7 to exile.

[Swowl]

Posting in a game in regular font and black textttttttttt!

Vote: LaLight - I just want to see if it goes to Pasta again or another random person.

Also, I doubt the 8 to exile is a mistake. That is kind of the base rule yeah? Mechanics of the game really wouldn't have a reason to change simply majority rule.

[Robz888]

Wait, why can't LL vote?

[LaLight]

Wait, why can't LL vote?

well, because it's part of my role

[LaLight]

of course there's something more intricate at play than just me unable to vote and that's why it's not simply 7 to exile. I would guess some more voting powers exist

[LaLight]

oh, and also I think I need to mention that I know less than nothing about the flavor, so I am very careful not to claim some more parts about non-voting shenanigans I think play no role overall, but might be indicative of something.

[Robz888]

Okay. Well all else being equal, losing someone who's vote doesn't count seems not so bad.

Vote: LL

[Swowl]

Okay. Well all else being equal, losing someone who's vote doesn't count seems not so bad.

Vote: LL

lol you get that it is not gonna vote for LL right?

[LaLight]

Okay. Well all else being equal, losing someone who's vote doesn't count seems not so bad.

Vote: LL

have you even read the thread?

[LaLight]

i hate that when Robz does this he's probably town. Get it together!

[MiX]

oh, and also I think I need to mention that I know less than nothing about the flavor, so I am very careful not to claim some more parts about non-voting shenanigans I think play no role overall, but might be indicative of something.

I would recommend everyone to see this wiki, and I'm personally looking at the board game to learn more: if you have Tabletop Simulator, you can look at it there (that's how I found Dominion). Flavor is definitely important this game, so learning it is pro-town.

[Awaclus]

Hi everyone! I had e-mail notifications enabled for this thread but for some reason it didn't send me any e-mails.

[Awaclus]

Oh, it did actually send me one for the day start. I just missed it because the thread was still named Night 0 and I mistook it for the same notification for those posts yesterday that I had already seen.

[SpaceAnemone]

Hi everyone! I had e-mail notifications enabled for this thread but for some reason it didn't send me any e-mails.

My excuse is just that I had a busy day.

Also, are you scum in this game?

[Awaclus]

Hi everyone! I had e-mail notifications enabled for this thread but for some reason it didn't send me any e-mails.

My excuse is just that I had a busy day.

Also, are you scum in this game?

No. Are you?

[SpaceAnemone]

Hi everyone! I had e-mail notifications enabled for this thread but for some reason it didn't send me any e-mails.

My excuse is just that I had a busy day.

Also, are you scum in this game?

No. Are you?

Nope! Glad we sorted that out though :-)

[SpaceAnemone]

Posting in a game in regular font and black textttttttttt!

Vote: LaLight - I just want to see if it goes to Pasta again or another random person.

Vote: LaLight for science!:-)

Also, hello Swowl, nice to see you in black text! And hello LL, too!

[Jack Rudd]

Vote: LaLight

[MiX]

Vote: LaLight

[Awaclus]

Nope! Glad we sorted that out though :-)

What a coincidence!

[Awaclus]

Vote: LaLight

[mathdude]

vote: ash

Also, guess I'll be going to the wiki shortly to learn more about flavour.

[Swowl]

For safety, cuz i think that’s like 6.

Unvote

[Dylan32]

Wait, I had voted for LL pre-vc, but it didn't show up at all, where MiX's was deflected onto scola.

Was my early vote on LL supposed to be redirected to a person or have no effect?

[MiX]

Wait, I had voted for LL pre-vc, but it didn't show up at all, where MiX's was deflected onto scola.

Was my early vote on LL supposed to be redirected to a person or have no effect?

I expected nothing more from Robz, but I thought you would read page 2 (or 1): I started the game by voting for scola.

[Dylan32]

If my vote is included, we hit 7 votes for LL just before Swowl's unvote...

[A Drowned Kernel]

Wait, I had voted for LL pre-vc, but it didn't show up at all, where MiX's was deflected onto scola.

Was my early vote on LL supposed to be redirected to a person or have no effect?

I would assume that it was because mix was voting scola before he voted LL, so his vote never changed

[Dylan32]

Wait, I had voted for LL pre-vc, but it didn't show up at all, where MiX's was deflected onto scola.

Was my early vote on LL supposed to be redirected to a person or have no effect?

I would assume that it was because mix was voting scola before he voted LL, so his vote never changed

Oh right. Vacation brain disassociated you from that vote. So that makes sense. I'm much less worried than I just was lol

[Dylan32]

Quote fail, meant to quote MiX's reply where he said that

[A Drowned Kernel]

Quote fail, meant to quote MiX's reply where he said that

You don't want to talk to me? :(

[EFHW]

Lots of friendly opening posts . I had to reread the setup; verified for myself that mathdude is not IC. Should read the wiki next since I don't know the flavor.

vote: Robz for Robz Voting Stage

[scolapasta]

Howdy all. First game since my first (and only) scum game. This'll be interesting.

It's funny seeing all those who don't know the flavor, as my main reason for wanting to be a part of this game is the flavor! So say we all!

So who else knows it? I'm sure it will come into play. Here are a few things I can imagine: I'm fairly sure I know what character Lalight is. And so his non voting or "votability" should be temporary... I suspect he'll join us on Day 2 or 3.

Also, after the initial miniseries, the first episode (SHOW SPOILERS) is called 33. Besides being one my my favorite hours of TV, the plot revolves around the Cylons finding and attacking the Human fleet. Human ships would defend then "jump" away; only to have the cycle repeat again every 33 minutes.

So do we think something like that might happen Day 1? (I'm really not sure how it would play out in an online mafia game, but something that might repeat cyclicly?)

Also, does anyone understand this from the rules:

All players are either human or Cylon. By default, players are unaware of their species. This is not the same as alignment.

Does being Human-aligned not imply being Human then?

[scolapasta]

Season 1 Rules

General gameplay

The game alternates between Day phase and Night phase. The Day phase lasts 7 days, the Night phase lasts 48 hours. Any Night actions need to be submitted at least 36 hours after Night start.

The Day phase ends either when the 7 days have passed, or when an exile has been reached. If there was no exile prior to the deadline, then the game will move the Night without exile. An exile is reached when a majority of living players votes for the same player. Whenever a new phase begins, all players should carefully check the game thread as well as any QT they have access to before posting anywhere.

When a player leaves the game through exile or killing action, their flavor name and alignment will be revealed. Additionally, the types of powers they possess at the time of death are revealed. You can see these in italics in your powers.

Game-specific classifications

All players are either human or Cylon. By default, players are unaware of their species. This is not the same as alignment.

Additionally, all players are classified as either civilian or military. Players are aware of their own status at all times. This is also not the same as alignment.

In general, these classification are inspired by the flavor of the series, though liberties have been taken. Flavor knowledge is not required to play, but may enhance the experience.

Town is flavored as human-aligned this game. The town win condition is

You win when all threats to the human population have been eliminated, or nothing can stop that from happening. You earn 5 points from winning.

The Presidency

There are two special distributable roles in the game: the President and Vice President. They have the following role powers.

President

Executive order. At the start of each Day, draw three cards from the Executive Order deck. You must pick one of them to enact within the first 72 hours of the Day. If you miss this deadline, a random order will be enacted. Orders are executed instantaneously when you submit the order. If the Day ends before you submit an order, there will be no order executed that Day.

Pick Vice President. When you obtain this role, and every even Night after it, you have 36 hours to select another player. That player will receive the role of Vice President.

Colonial One. You have a QT with your Vice President, open at all times.

Vice President.

Next in line. When the President is removed from the game, you obtain their power.

Colonial One. You have a QT with the President, open at all times.

It is public knowledge who holds the office of President and Vice President. If at any time, both roles are unassigned, trigger a turning point. The Presidency is a civilian office. If at any time, a member of the military obtains the role of President, they have a choice to let go of all their role powers. If they do not, trigger a turning point.

The contents of the Executive Order deck are public knowledge. At game start, they are as follows:

Civilian jurisdiction Today, an exile will occur even if the game ends without a majority on a player. At the end of this day, the exile is the player with the most civilian votes rather than the player with the most votes.	Curfew The following Day, all players take one vote fewer to exile for each Action they took the previous Night.	Military police force Any military player gains the power: "You may target one other player tonight, to learn which players they targeted that night." tonight only. Military players' actions cannot be detected tonight.
Presidential pardon At the end of the Day, the President may choose to pardon the exiled player. If they do, the exiled player does not flip and is not sent to the brig. They have 12 hours to make the decision, during which the thread remains open.	Isolate Colonial One Any action targeting the President tonight will fail.	Prioritize Choose either military or civilians. The chosen group's actions cannot be blocked or redirected tonight, and break through one layer of protection. Players from the other group may only perform one action tonight.

Whenever you would draw from the Executive Order deck and there are less than 3 cards left, shuffle all cards into the deck.

Turning Points

There are some events the trigger turning points which are publicly known. They are as follows:

• Day 2 begins
• the roles of both President and Vice President are unassigned
• a member of the military becomes President and refuses to give up their role powers
• the President or Vice President are sent to the brig
• the President is incapacitated at Night
• the game ends Night 5 or earlier

[scolapasta]

Whoops! That was an accidental repost of the whole rules - sorry about that! I was using that to snag the quote for my previous post and accidentally clicked "Post".

@faust, feel free to delete that one, if you'd like.

[scolapasta]

I'm fairly sure I know what character Lalight is. And so his non voting or "votability" should be temporary... I suspect he'll join us on Day 2 or 3.

OK, so my facepalm quoting of the entire rules had a serendipitous result - I reread all the turning points at the end, and "Day 2 begins" is one of them. So I'm more convinces that's when Lalight will join us.

[Swowl]

Also, does anyone understand this from the rules:

All players are either human or Cylon. By default, players are unaware of their species. This is not the same as alignment.

Does being Human-aligned not imply being Human then?

It does explicitly state in the set up that being human is *not* the same as alignment. Though I did initially share your confusion before going back and checking.

All players are either human or Cylon. By default, players are unaware of their species. This is not the same as alignment.

[scolapasta]

Also, does anyone understand this from the rules:

All players are either human or Cylon. By default, players are unaware of their species. This is not the same as alignment.

Does being Human-aligned not imply being Human then?

It does explicitly state in the set up that being human is *not* the same as alignment. Though I did initially share your confusion before going back and checking.

All players are either human or Cylon. By default, players are unaware of their species. This is not the same as alignment.

Right, when I first had read that, I had understood it. But had though / assumed alignment would be completely different "theme" then. So it's hurting my brain a little.

[Swowl]

who do you think LL's char is?

[ashersky]

So I will just say what I was talking about earlier, because why not?

Along with human/cylon, we also have civilian/military as aspects of our game selves that are completely separate from alignment (per the setup post).  We also have flavor names.

Imagine getting a pm that says "You are a hobbit.  Your flavor name is Gandalf." in a Hobbit game.

That's the type of situation I need help reconciling.

[Swowl]

So I will just say what I was talking about earlier, because why not?

Along with human/cylon, we also have civilian/military as aspects of our game selves that are completely separate from alignment (per the setup post).  We also have flavor names.

Imagine getting a pm that says "You are a hobbit.  Your flavor name is Gandalf." in a Hobbit game.

That's the type of situation I need help reconciling.

Yeah I have been talking that point over with myself a little bit actually.
Not sure what to make of it.

[faust]

Vote Count 1.2

Dylan32 (2): A Drowned Kernel, MiX
ashersky (1): mathdude
Robz888 (1): EFHW

Not Voting (10): Jack Rudd, SpaceAnemone, WestCoastDidds, scolapasta, LaLight, Dylan32, Swowl, Robz888, ashersky, Awaclus

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to exile. Day 1 ends March 23, 2021, 03:30:00 am.

Was my early vote on LL supposed to be redirected to a person or have no effect?

No comment.

[faust]

MiX has been selected as Vice President!

The following Executive Order has been signed:

Curfew
The following Day, all players take one vote fewer to exile for each Action they took the previous Night.

[Swowl]

why mix math?

[Swowl]

also, not for sure, but I think we can assume it is "your vote stays where it was" if you vote for LL.

[Swowl]

also also @ Math - why pick curfew? what were your other options?

[MiX]

As much as I agree to be Vice President (in fact, that was what I was going to suggest with regards to the president), I would've loved to have been briefed on what executive orders math was allowed to pick between in the QT...that's kinda why that QT exists in the first place. But I won't complain much. The reasons I wanted to be Vice President are now confidential, I guess.

Vote Count 1.2

Dylan32 (2): A Drowned Kernel, Dylan32
ashersky (1): mathdude
Robz888 (1): EFHW

Not Voting (10): Jack Rudd, SpaceAnemone, WestCoastDidds, scolapasta, LaLight, Dylan32, Swowl, Robz888, ashersky, Awaclus

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to exile. Day 1 ends March 23, 2021, 03:30:00 am.

Was my early vote on LL supposed to be redirected to a person or have no effect?

No comment.

You have Dylan voting for himself, instead of me voting for Dylan

who do you think LL's char is?

I also know LL's character. I don't think it's pro-town to say it, although everyone should know it if they know the flavor, although admittedly it's not easy to find that information.

[faust]

You have Dylan voting for himself, instead of me voting for Dylan

Thanks; it's fixed now.

[MiX]

So I will just say what I was talking about earlier, because why not?

Along with human/cylon, we also have civilian/military as aspects of our game selves that are completely separate from alignment (per the setup post).  We also have flavor names.

Imagine getting a pm that says "You are a hobbit.  Your flavor name is Gandalf." in a Hobbit game.

That's the type of situation I need help reconciling.

It's most likely going to be obvious if you're a civilian/military knowing your character, and characters are not separate from alignment in the first game of legacy. That doesn't mean civilian/military aren't separate from alignment.

Does that clarify anything at all?

also, not for sure, but I think we can assume it is "your vote stays where it was" if you vote for LL.

Yeah, we can talk about more interesting things now, like Dylan being the scummiest so far and you being town. Who would you vote for, if you could (to include LL)?

Also, does anyone understand this from the rules:

All players are either human or Cylon. By default, players are unaware of their species. This is not the same as alignment.

Does being Human-aligned not imply being Human then?

It does explicitly state in the set up that being human is *not* the same as alignment. Though I did initially share your confusion before going back and checking.

All players are either human or Cylon. By default, players are unaware of their species. This is not the same as alignment.

You can probably be a human and be cylon-aligned, and you can probably be a cylon and be human-aligned. The mere fact we don't know if we're human or cylon says that they're separate from alignment, although there's at least 1 cylon-aligned cylon, so being a cylon should be scummy.

[A Drowned Kernel]

who do you think LL's char is?

Who is this addressed to? And why do you think it's a good idea to discuss it?

[MiX]

I'm fairly sure I know what character Lalight is.

who do you think LL's char is?

Who is this addressed to? And why do you think it's a good idea to discuss it?

Swowl's most likely talking to scola. If you don't know the flavor, it's possible that you can think knowing LL's character is mechanical, so that question is only natural.

[A Drowned Kernel]

There's plenty of basis in the show for characters who are cylons but are on the side of the humans (it should also probably be emphasized for people who don't know the flavor that there are a number of characters who are cylons but aren't aware of the fact) and at least one character who is human but is on the side of the cylons

[A Drowned Kernel]

I'm fairly sure I know what character Lalight is.

who do you think LL's char is?

Who is this addressed to? And why do you think it's a good idea to discuss it?

Swowl's most likely talking to scola. If you don't know the flavor, it's possible that you can think knowing LL's character is mechanical, so that question is only natural.

I'm pretty familiar with the flavor, and 95% sure I know LL's character. I just don't see the benefit of putting it out there

[mathdude]

why mix math?

MiX seems to know what's going on. With me not knowing flavour, I figured it could help me get started in this complex game. It really was a shot in the dark on the first day.

also also @ Math - why pick curfew? what were your other options?

I'll hold off on saying much about that until I know whether there are advantages or disadvantages to doing it. I will say I think other option(s) may be more useful later.

[SpaceAnemone]

I also know LL's character. I don't think it's pro-town to say it, although everyone should know it if they know the flavor, although admittedly it's not easy to find that information.

The fact that you admit it's not easy to find the information, imply it's game-useful, and then refuse just to provide it when it's already obvious to those who know the show/game actually seems anti-town to me :-P Our alignments are independent of whether we have background knowledge, and I assume that more people are human-aligned than not, so you're probably disproportionately denying town possibly-useful info.

Anyway, to clarify for anyone not familiar with the source, there's a pilot character, Helo (Karl Agathon), who spends the beginning of the series stranded on earth, away from the rest of the human fleet. In the board game, Helo has to sit out the first round of the game, which maybe looks a bit like LL not being able to interact with the voting for now.

PPE 3: Apparently I disagree with people on whether to say! I just really don't like excluding anyone from the finer points of the game just because they're not familiar with the flavour, and I especially don't like it when it's framed as "go away and do lots of hard homework to learn it because I'm not going to tell".

[A Drowned Kernel]

It's more that I think it's a bad idea to reveal information about LL's role for no reason in case that information is of benefit to scum

[MiX]

I also know LL's character. I don't think it's pro-town to say it, although everyone should know it if they know the flavor, although admittedly it's not easy to find that information.

The fact that you admit it's not easy to find the information, imply it's game-useful, and then refuse just to provide it when it's already obvious to those who know the show/game actually seems anti-town to me :-P Our alignments are independent of whether we have background knowledge, and I assume that more people are human-aligned than not, so you're probably disproportionately denying town possibly-useful info.

Anyway, to clarify for anyone not familiar with the source, there's a pilot character, Helo (Karl Agathon), who spends the beginning of the series stranded on earth, away from the rest of the human fleet. In the board game, Helo has to sit out the first round of the game, which maybe looks a bit like LL not being able to interact with the voting for now.

PPE 3: Apparently I disagree with people on whether to say! I just really don't like excluding anyone from the finer points of the game just because they're not familiar with the flavour, and I especially don't like it when it's framed as "go away and do lots of hard homework to learn it because I'm not going to tell".

It shouldn't be helpful for town to know LL's character, but it definitely is helpful for scum. Not that I disagree with saying who LL is, I'm just not making that decision myself, as any one person can do it.

That is also who I think LL is, especially having played the board game (and having recently looked at everything in it, research is fun). That is also most likely D2's turning point.

You should do homework anyway! I couldn't possibly say everything that is relevant, because I'm sure it would be helpful for everyone to know their character intimately (after all, you're going to be spending quite a while with them!), and this helpfulness is pro-town (and pro-themselves, but making sure everyone knows their character ends up being pro-town).

[EFHW]

Normally I would agree with Space, but in this case, the question would have been hard to Google ("BG char who can't vote") so there was some benefit in not telling, in case all the scum don't know the flavor.  Not sure how likely that is.

[scolapasta]

I wasn't sure if revealing the actual identity was more pro-town or anti-town, so didn't immediately reveal. But I think the discussion was pro-town, so I'm happy with that.

(and now that it's out there, yeah LaLight is lalikely LaHelo).

I mean it sounds like knowing his character name doesn't actually tell us species or alignment. Maybe tells us if it's civilian or military?

Mix, Are you civilian or military? Does no turning point mean you're civilian then? Or is your (possible) renouncing not powers not public knowledge?

[MiX]

I wasn't sure if revealing the actual identity was more pro-town or anti-town, so didn't immediately reveal. But I think the discussion was pro-town, so I'm happy with that.

(and now that it's out there, yeah LaLight is lalikely LaHelo).

I mean it sounds like knowing his character name doesn't actually tell us species or alignment. Maybe tells us if it's civilian or military?

Mix, Are you civilian or military? Does no turning point mean you're civilian then? Or is your (possible) renouncing not powers not public knowledge?

I am not the president yet, so there's no turning point. I don't think it's pro-town to reveal if I'm civilian or military.

Do you have any reads? This is definitely a game where knowing the flavor is very fun, as we'll play with it more, but catching scum should also be fun, right? That reminds me;

Vote: Awaclus

[A Drowned Kernel]

I wasn't sure if revealing the actual identity was more pro-town or anti-town, so didn't immediately reveal. But I think the discussion was pro-town, so I'm happy with that.

(and now that it's out there, yeah LaLight is lalikely LaHelo).

I mean it sounds like knowing his character name doesn't actually tell us species or alignment. Maybe tells us if it's civilian or military?

Mix, Are you civilian or military? Does no turning point mean you're civilian then? Or is your (possible) renouncing not powers not public knowledge?

I am not the president yet, so there's no turning point. I don't think it's pro-town to reveal if I'm civilian or military.

Do you have any reads? This is definitely a game where knowing the flavor is very fun, as we'll play with it more, but catching scum should also be fun, right? That reminds me;

Vote: Awaclus

I think it's definitely anti-town to reveal it

[Robz888]

Uh, sorry I missed the detail that we also cannot vote for LL.

I'm pretty familiar with the flavor but if there's an obvious reason why Helo would fit, it doesn't occur to me. Oh, is it it just because he's not with the fleet yet? Okay, sure.

FWIW I was assigned one of my absolute least favorite characters.

[Awaclus]

I wasn't sure if revealing the actual identity was more pro-town or anti-town, so didn't immediately reveal. But I think the discussion was pro-town, so I'm happy with that.

(and now that it's out there, yeah LaLight is lalikely LaHelo).

I mean it sounds like knowing his character name doesn't actually tell us species or alignment. Maybe tells us if it's civilian or military?

Mix, Are you civilian or military? Does no turning point mean you're civilian then? Or is your (possible) renouncing not powers not public knowledge?

I am not the president yet, so there's no turning point. I don't think it's pro-town to reveal if I'm civilian or military.

Do you have any reads? This is definitely a game where knowing the flavor is very fun, as we'll play with it more, but catching scum should also be fun, right? That reminds me;

Vote: Awaclus

I think it's definitely anti-town to reveal it

I think it's definitely anti-town to vote for me.

[Awaclus]

FWIW I was assigned one of my absolute least favorite characters.

I don't care about any of the characters, we can switch if you want!

[LaLight]

Anyway, to clarify for anyone not familiar with the source, there's a pilot character, Helo (Karl Agathon), who spends the beginning of the series stranded on earth, away from the rest of the human fleet. In the board game, Helo has to sit out the first round of the game, which maybe looks a bit like LL not being able to interact with the voting for now.

I will neither confirm nor deny this.

[LaLight]

I also think we should not discuss military/civilian and cylon/human thing. There's something to form reads on.

For example I think makes too much sense to be town, Robz is making too little sense to be scum, I don't know mathdude and their meta (hi!) which I would like to know

anyway, I don't want the conversion shifting from Mafia to Flavor talking if this makes sense

god i missed this game

[LaLight]

I also think we should not discuss military/civilian and cylon/human thing. There's something to form reads on.

For example I think MiX makes too much sense to be town, Robz is making too little sense to be scum, I don't know mathdude and their meta (hi!) which I would like to know

anyway, I don't want the conversion shifting from Mafia to Flavor talking if this makes sense

god i missed this game

EBWOP

[Robz888]

I also think we should not discuss military/civilian and cylon/human thing. There's something to form reads on.

For example I think makes too much sense to be town, Robz is making too little sense to be scum, I don't know mathdude and their meta (hi!) which I would like to know

anyway, I don't want the conversion shifting from Mafia to Flavor talking if this makes sense

god i missed this game

We probably can't talk about mathdude's meta, since the dude has only been in one game and it's not over yet.

[scolapasta]

I wasn't sure if revealing the actual identity was more pro-town or anti-town, so didn't immediately reveal. But I think the discussion was pro-town, so I'm happy with that.

(and now that it's out there, yeah LaLight is lalikely LaHelo).

I mean it sounds like knowing his character name doesn't actually tell us species or alignment. Maybe tells us if it's civilian or military?

Mix, Are you civilian or military? Does no turning point mean you're civilian then? Or is your (possible) renouncing not powers not public knowledge?

I am not the president yet, so there's no turning point. I don't think it's pro-town to reveal if I'm civilian or military.

Do you have any reads? This is definitely a game where knowing the flavor is very fun, as we'll play with it more, but catching scum should also be fun, right? That reminds me;

Vote: Awaclus

Ah, that was a misreading of the rules on my part... Agree better not to reveal yet (I was only asking in the context of my misreading).

Though from a non game / philosophical point of view, it feels wrong to be against revealing the military? How is having a secret military pro the people?

"There's a reason you separate military and the police. One fights the enemies of the state, the other serves and protects the people. When the military becomes both, then the enemies of the state tend to become the people."

[scolapasta]

Re:reads

it's a busy week for me, so mostly just trying to keep up to date with posts.

My one scum game I was scum with Robz and space, and neither seems to be posting (yet?) like they did that game. So maybe slight lean town on those two?

Also, where is WCD?? (I'm guessing also busy week)

[Awaclus]

Though from a non game / philosophical point of view, it feels wrong to be against revealing the military? How is having a secret military pro the people?

It's pro the people because the enemies of the state have a harder time knowing who to get rid of if they don't know who's in the military.

[MiX]

I also think we should not discuss military/civilian and cylon/human thing. There's something to form reads on.

For example I think MiX makes too much sense to be town, Robz is making too little sense to be scum, I don't know mathdude and their meta (hi!) which I would like to know

anyway, I don't want the conversion shifting from Mafia to Flavor talking if this makes sense

god i missed this game

EBWOP

You can run a wagon at me now to get it over with, it happens like every game anyway. I agree with your read on Robz, however.

Though from a non game / philosophical point of view, it feels wrong to be against revealing the military? How is having a secret military pro the people?

It's pro the people because the enemies of the state have a harder time knowing who to get rid of if they don't know who's in the military.

This is absolutely true.

Who's scum, Awaclus? It's not you, it's not Space...who is it then?

[Robz888]

It seems like this has been explained a thousand times already, but in case it isn't clear: In Battlestar Galactica, there are humans who are human-aligned and Cylons who are Cylon-aligned, but there are also quite a few Cylons who are human-aligned (like, half the cylons by the end of the show!) and at least one human who is for a long time Cylon-aligned.

[Swowl]

Yeah, we can talk about more interesting things now, like Dylan being the scummiest so far and you being town. Who would you vote for, if you could (to include LL)?

I do not really have a preference on where to put my vote. I have a list of people I don't want to vote for, and LL is on that list at this point.

[Awaclus]

This is absolutely true.

Who's scum, Awaclus? It's not you, it's not Space...who is it then?

I don't know, I'm not in the scum team.

[LaLight]

I also think we should not discuss military/civilian and cylon/human thing. There's something to form reads on.

For example I think makes too much sense to be town, Robz is making too little sense to be scum, I don't know mathdude and their meta (hi!) which I would like to know

anyway, I don't want the conversion shifting from Mafia to Flavor talking if this makes sense

god i missed this game

We probably can't talk about mathdude's meta, since the dude has only been in one game and it's not over yet.

ah ok

[scolapasta]

Yeah, we can talk about more interesting things now, like Dylan being the scummiest so far and you being town. Who would you vote for, if you could (to include LL)?

I do not really have a preference on where to put my vote. I have a list of people I don't want to vote for, and LL is on that list at this point.

Is he just on that list because it'd be a wasted vote? Or you have more of a read on him?

[Swowl]

I have a small amount of absolutely non-concrete anything information that gives LL a day 1 pass for me.

[EFHW]

I have a small amount of absolutely non-concrete anything information that gives LL a day 1 pass for me.

You don't really have a choice, since you can't vote for him today.

[Swowl]

I have a small amount of absolutely non-concrete anything information that gives LL a day 1 pass for me.

You don't really have a choice, since you can't vote for him today.

I mean, fair enough. I was more responding to the additional information part.

[SpaceAnemone]

Uh, sorry I missed the detail that we also cannot vote for LL.

I'm pretty familiar with the flavor but if there's an obvious reason why Helo would fit, it doesn't occur to me. Oh, is it it just because he's not with the fleet yet? Okay, sure.

FWIW I was assigned one of my absolute least favorite characters.

Have you played the board game? All the characters in that have a specific weakness/drawback, and Helo's is that he's entirely absent for the first round of the game, which can feel like a really long time when you're playing.

[SpaceAnemone]

Normally I would agree with Space, but in this case, the question would have been hard to Google ("BG char who can't vote") so there was some benefit in not telling, in case all the scum don't know the flavor.  Not sure how likely that is.

If this is so, then I assert that it's anti-town for whomever said they could guess the role from meta to have said so in-thread. Once it's out there, and especially once MiX has pointed out that it's findable merely by "homework", then it just seems petty not to share.

The people saying "I know what you mean but I'm not going to tell" are merely taunting and penalising people who're unfamiliar with the show by requiring them to read several hours more stuff than the rest of us to get to the same level of engagement with the game. I think we can afford to be more respectful of each other's available play time, and also of the amount of time and effort faust has undoubtedly put into this setup so that it's really unlikely to be broken by just a little bit of BSG knowledge.

[SpaceAnemone]

"There's a reason you separate military and the police. One fights the enemies of the state, the other serves and protects the people. When the military becomes both, then the enemies of the state tend to become the people."

Tempted to give a d1 pass just for getting in a thematic BSG quote :-)

[MiX]

Normally I would agree with Space, but in this case, the question would have been hard to Google ("BG char who can't vote") so there was some benefit in not telling, in case all the scum don't know the flavor.  Not sure how likely that is.

If this is so, then I assert that it's anti-town for whomever said they could guess the role from meta to have said so in-thread. Once it's out there, and especially once MiX has pointed out that it's findable merely by "homework", then it just seems petty not to share.

The people saying "I know what you mean but I'm not going to tell" are merely taunting and penalising people who're unfamiliar with the show by requiring them to read several hours more stuff than the rest of us to get to the same level of engagement with the game. I think we can afford to be more respectful of each other's available play time, and also of the amount of time and effort faust has undoubtedly put into this setup so that it's really unlikely to be broken by just a little bit of BSG knowledge.

Luckily for everyone, that has nothing to do with it being pro or anti town. I agree it's more welcoming to give the answer, as it is more helpful to stimulate people to look up the answer themselves. Hopefully we got the best out of both worlds here.

"There's a reason you separate military and the police. One fights the enemies of the state, the other serves and protects the people. When the military becomes both, then the enemies of the state tend to become the people."

Tempted to give a d1 pass just for getting in a thematic BSG quote :-)

Sadly I believe that is scummy coming from scola. Do you think that's a reasonable take?

[LaLight]

Normally I would agree with Space, but in this case, the question would have been hard to Google ("BG char who can't vote") so there was some benefit in not telling, in case all the scum don't know the flavor.  Not sure how likely that is.

If this is so, then I assert that it's anti-town for whomever said they could guess the role from meta to have said so in-thread. Once it's out there, and especially once MiX has pointed out that it's findable merely by "homework", then it just seems petty not to share.

The people saying "I know what you mean but I'm not going to tell" are merely taunting and penalising people who're unfamiliar with the show by requiring them to read several hours more stuff than the rest of us to get to the same level of engagement with the game. I think we can afford to be more respectful of each other's available play time, and also of the amount of time and effort faust has undoubtedly put into this setup so that it's really unlikely to be broken by just a little bit of BSG knowledge.

I agree and vote: ADK (it's not a vote it's how I would vote)

[scolapasta]

I have a small amount of absolutely non-concrete anything information that gives LL a day 1 pass for me.

You don't really have a choice, since you can't vote for him today.

Yeah this was basically my point.

[scolapasta]

Normally I would agree with Space, but in this case, the question would have been hard to Google ("BG char who can't vote") so there was some benefit in not telling, in case all the scum don't know the flavor.  Not sure how likely that is.

If this is so, then I assert that it's anti-town for whomever said they could guess the role from meta to have said so in-thread. Once it's out there, and especially once MiX has pointed out that it's findable merely by "homework", then it just seems petty not to share.

The people saying "I know what you mean but I'm not going to tell" are merely taunting and penalising people who're unfamiliar with the show by requiring them to read several hours more stuff than the rest of us to get to the same level of engagement with the game. I think we can afford to be more respectful of each other's available play time, and also of the amount of time and effort faust has undoubtedly put into this setup so that it's really unlikely to be broken by just a little bit of BSG knowledge.

I was the one who first said I could guess the role from the flavor; my intention was to reveal it (I agree, no point in not sharing it), but I did want to at least spur some conversation first. Which it did, so yay for me?

[scolapasta]

"There's a reason you separate military and the police. One fights the enemies of the state, the other serves and protects the people. When the military becomes both, then the enemies of the state tend to become the people."

Tempted to give a d1 pass just for getting in a thematic BSG quote :-)

Sadly I believe that is scummy coming from scola. Do you think that's a reasonable take?

Scummy just for quoting (my favorite quote) from the show? Weird.

And why "sadly"?

[MiX]

"There's a reason you separate military and the police. One fights the enemies of the state, the other serves and protects the people. When the military becomes both, then the enemies of the state tend to become the people."

Tempted to give a d1 pass just for getting in a thematic BSG quote :-)

Sadly I believe that is scummy coming from scola. Do you think that's a reasonable take?

Scummy just for quoting (my favorite quote) from the show? Weird.

And why "sadly"?

I think scum!you is more likely to do non-game actions than town!you. Not sure I can explain it better than that.

Sadly because it's a bad thing to scumread for, as it's just...fun to do, and because I'm currently townreading you.

I have a small amount of absolutely non-concrete anything information that gives LL a day 1 pass for me.

You don't really have a choice, since you can't vote for him today.

Yeah this was basically my point.

Just because we can't vote for LL doesn't mean we can't have a read on him. Although it would be nice to have reads on other people!

[A Drowned Kernel]

Normally I would agree with Space, but in this case, the question would have been hard to Google ("BG char who can't vote") so there was some benefit in not telling, in case all the scum don't know the flavor.  Not sure how likely that is.

If this is so, then I assert that it's anti-town for whomever said they could guess the role from meta to have said so in-thread. Once it's out there, and especially once MiX has pointed out that it's findable merely by "homework", then it just seems petty not to share.

The people saying "I know what you mean but I'm not going to tell" are merely taunting and penalising people who're unfamiliar with the show by requiring them to read several hours more stuff than the rest of us to get to the same level of engagement with the game. I think we can afford to be more respectful of each other's available play time, and also of the amount of time and effort faust has undoubtedly put into this setup so that it's really unlikely to be broken by just a little bit of BSG knowledge.

I was not trying to taunt anyone, I was trying to stop information from being revealed that I really didn't think should be revealed

[mathdude]

So let me get the big idea straight...

We are all either human or cylon but as far as I can tell, none of us currently knows which even we are ourselves, let alone others. But this doesn't seem to matter, at least not yet.

We are all either civilian or military. As president, I'm civilian. This distinction wil likely have effects on the game (e.g. if I'm exiled and incoming VP is military, it triggers a turning point). But this isn't the typical mafia game alignments of mafia or town.

Then we are either town-aligned or cylon-aligned... different than the first point above. This is the actual mafia-town distinction we are used to. We all are either human-aligned, or pretending that we are human-aligned, as per usual mafia games.

Also, we each have a character, with a character arc that can affect things. Whether they have abilities or other goals in mind, this adds complexity.

On top of that, I also have a role of president with additional effects (such as choosing from the deck). And MiX is VP. But those seem to be the only extra roles (at least right now).

Can someone either confirm or correct me that these are the basic things I need to pull out of game intro, as compared to a normal game.

[A Drowned Kernel]

So let me get the big idea straight...

We are all either human or cylon but as far as I can tell, none of us currently knows which even we are ourselves, let alone others. But this doesn't seem to matter, at least not yet.

We are all either civilian or military. As president, I'm civilian. This distinction wil likely have effects on the game (e.g. if I'm exiled and incoming VP is military, it triggers a turning point). But this isn't the typical mafia game alignments of mafia or town.

Then we are either town-aligned or cylon-aligned... different than the first point above. This is the actual mafia-town distinction we are used to. We all are either human-aligned, or pretending that we are human-aligned, as per usual mafia games.

Also, we each have a character, with a character arc that can affect things. Whether they have abilities or other goals in mind, this adds complexity.

On top of that, I also have a role of president with additional effects (such as choosing from the deck). And MiX is VP. But those seem to be the only extra roles (at least right now).

Can someone either confirm or correct me that these are the basic things I need to pull out of game intro, as compared to a normal game.

That all seems about correct, except I don't know if certain if everyone does not know if they're a cylon

[MiX]

So let me get the big idea straight...

We are all either human or cylon but as far as I can tell, none of us currently knows which even we are ourselves, let alone others. But this doesn't seem to matter, at least not yet.

We are all either civilian or military. As president, I'm civilian. This distinction wil likely have effects on the game (e.g. if I'm exiled and incoming VP is military, it triggers a turning point). But this isn't the typical mafia game alignments of mafia or town.

Then we are either town-aligned or cylon-aligned... different than the first point above. This is the actual mafia-town distinction we are used to. We all are either human-aligned, or pretending that we are human-aligned, as per usual mafia games.

Also, we each have a character, with a character arc that can affect things. Whether they have abilities or other goals in mind, this adds complexity.

On top of that, I also have a role of president with additional effects (such as choosing from the deck). And MiX is VP. But those seem to be the only extra roles (at least right now).

Can someone either confirm or correct me that these are the basic things I need to pull out of game intro, as compared to a normal game.

As compared to a "normal" game, there is also the fact that this is Role Madness; so expect everyone to have a bunch of powers. But I think everything you said is correct.

There can also be non-human-aligned non-cylon-aligned players, as third parties. Or not, but these are pretty common in RMMs.

[WestCoastDidds]

Holy smokes! I’ve been out of town and totally spaced on time.

Hi hi hi hi hi!

[A Drowned Kernel]

out of town

Scumslip!

[WestCoastDidds]

out of town

Scumslip!

Ha! It was my first post-vaccine trip to see our kid in college. Spring break! Here is what I know.... I am not yet at ease around groups of people. That is going to take awhile.

I’m caught up now. Quick takes:

Thanks, Space, for reminding me about Helo. I haven’t played the game (should we?) but I watched the series early in the pandemic after I finished Voyager and Picard. I don’t like the half the people know things, either. It does feel like taunting to me, even if it’s not mean spirited. But I know I’m a tender heart.

Hi Swowl! I’ve missed playing with you! Scola! I’ve missed you, too! Mathdude! Thanks for coming back! Awaclus! Jack! My codenames homies! It’s good to see you! MiX, Space, EFHW, Ash, Dylan, Robz...long time, no see. xoxo

LaLight! Hi friend! ADK! Hooray!

So, I’ve seen the show but it’s been awhile. I’ll need to refresh, I think.

[ashersky]

Also, I think we should vote for the players who have confirmed that "cylon-aligned" is the mafia alignment, given that isn't public information and I had no clue.

[ashersky]

That is MiX, Robz, and mathdude, btw.

Makes sense a mafia president would choose a mafia VP and Hated.

[ashersky]

Also, also, everyone focused on the wrong part of my question (human/cylon).   I guess my analogy was closer to that.

Imagine you are playing a WWII-themed game.  Your receive "It is 1944.  You are a civilian.  Your flavor name is General MacArthur."  How do you reconcile that?

[ashersky]

Also, MiX being a mafia partner is literally only one of very few reasons to ever choose MiX to be VP.  (Masons would be another, off the top of my head).

vote: MiX

[MiX]

Also, I think we should vote for the players who have confirmed that "cylon-aligned" is the mafia alignment, given that isn't public information and I had no clue.

It seems only natural, knowing the town alignment flavor name.

Would this include yourself?

That is MiX, Robz, and mathdude, btw.

Makes sense a mafia president would choose a mafia VP and Hated.

Not really...wouldn't scum use it to find out about town people's roles? Sounds like a great way to make a fakeclaim.

Also, also, everyone focused on the wrong part of my question (human/cylon).   I guess my analogy was closer to that.

Imagine you are playing a WWII-themed game.  Your receive "It is 1944.  You are a civilian.  Your flavor name is General MacArthur."  How do you reconcile that?

I have answered this: I believe that civilian/military are strongly related to the character. But they aren't necessarily related to alignment (or to the species, of course).

Also, MiX being a mafia partner is literally only one of very few reasons to ever choose MiX to be VP.  (Masons would be another, off the top of my head).

vote: MiX

It's literally one of the reasons, yes. I am also literally my alignment, and math also literally picked me. Do you scumread math, and if so, why?

[A Drowned Kernel]

Also, also, everyone focused on the wrong part of my question (human/cylon).   I guess my analogy was closer to that.

Imagine you are playing a WWII-themed game.  Your receive "It is 1944.  You are a civilian.  Your flavor name is General MacArthur."  How do you reconcile that?

If I was playing a WWII themed game were some players were civilians and some were military and that fact was independent of alignment, I would assume MacArthur was military. If I received that PM, I guess I would assume that either the GM was doing something very odd with the flavor or the game was bastard

The confusion that I think needs to be cleared up with the "human/cylon" thing is that the terms are being used in this game to refer to two aspects of people's roles, their alignment and their "species". A player's species could be Cylon but their alignment could be human and vice-versa. If you want to go back to the WWII analogy, imagine a game where players have alignments of Allies and Axis as well as "nationalities" that are independent. So you could have a character that was "German" but whose alignment was "Allies"

[EFHW]

Also, I think we should vote for the players who have confirmed that "cylon-aligned" is the mafia alignment, given that isn't public information and I had no clue.

I assumed that was the opposite of humsn-aligned and wouldn't be surprised if others did too.

[ashersky]

Also, also, everyone focused on the wrong part of my question (human/cylon).   I guess my analogy was closer to that.

Imagine you are playing a WWII-themed game.  Your receive "It is 1944.  You are a civilian.  Your flavor name is General MacArthur."  How do you reconcile that?

If I was playing a WWII themed game were some players were civilians and some were military and that fact was independent of alignment, I would assume MacArthur was military. If I received that PM, I guess I would assume that either the GM was doing something very odd with the flavor or the game was bastard

The confusion that I think needs to be cleared up with the "human/cylon" thing is that the terms are being used in this game to refer to two aspects of people's roles, their alignment and their "species". A player's species could be Cylon but their alignment could be human and vice-versa. If you want to go back to the WWII analogy, imagine a game where players have alignments of Allies and Axis as well as "nationalities" that are independent. So you could have a character that was "German" but whose alignment was "Allies"

Bolding the issue.

There are stuff related to our roles.  There is human OR cylon, irrespective of alignment.  There is military OR civilian, irrespective of alignment.  And there is a flavor name.

Do all three of these need to match?  As explained by others, since plenty of Cylons don't know they are Cylons in the show, no issues there.  But man, it's hard to be in the military and not know it.

I just googled "BSG wiki" and clicked the first link, then scrolled to the first character that appeared, which was Kara Thrace.  Per the wiki, Kara was a Viper pilot (whatever that is) in the Colonial Fleet.  That would make Kara Thrace a member of the military.

If a player's PM assigned them both Kara and "civilian," what does that mean?  What does it say about the setup?  What does it mean for how we understand claims?

[ashersky]

Also, I think we should vote for the players who have confirmed that "cylon-aligned" is the mafia alignment, given that isn't public information and I had no clue.

I assumed that was the opposite of humsn-aligned and wouldn't be surprised if others did too.

I assume nothing.  Things are complicated enough.  Until things are mod-confirmed, seems best to assume anything is possible.  Couldn't it just as easily be "Caprica-aligned" or "One True God-aligned" (based on the same wiki I found and clicking on Cylons)?

Seeming too sure it is "Cylon-aligned" is a mafia tell.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Also, also, everyone focused on the wrong part of my question (human/cylon).   I guess my analogy was closer to that.

Imagine you are playing a WWII-themed game.  Your receive "It is 1944.  You are a civilian.  Your flavor name is General MacArthur."  How do you reconcile that?

If I was playing a WWII themed game were some players were civilians and some were military and that fact was independent of alignment, I would assume MacArthur was military. If I received that PM, I guess I would assume that either the GM was doing something very odd with the flavor or the game was bastard

The confusion that I think needs to be cleared up with the "human/cylon" thing is that the terms are being used in this game to refer to two aspects of people's roles, their alignment and their "species". A player's species could be Cylon but their alignment could be human and vice-versa. If you want to go back to the WWII analogy, imagine a game where players have alignments of Allies and Axis as well as "nationalities" that are independent. So you could have a character that was "German" but whose alignment was "Allies"

Bolding the issue.

There are stuff related to our roles.  There is human OR cylon, irrespective of alignment.  There is military OR civilian, irrespective of alignment.  And there is a flavor name.

Do all three of these need to match?  As explained by others, since plenty of Cylons don't know they are Cylons in the show, no issues there.  But man, it's hard to be in the military and not know it.

I just googled "BSG wiki" and clicked the first link, then scrolled to the first character that appeared, which was Kara Thrace.  Per the wiki, Kara was a Viper pilot (whatever that is) in the Colonial Fleet.  That would make Kara Thrace a member of the military.

If a player's PM assigned them both Kara and "civilian," what does that mean?  What does it say about the setup?  What does it mean for how we understand claims?

Is this just a hypothetical? If so, I would say we should cross that bridge when we come to it

[ashersky]

Safe to assume it isn't, given how much I'm asking about it.

[Awaclus]

Safe to assume it isn't, given how much I'm asking about it.

I assume nothing. Things are complicated enough.

[ashersky]

Safe to assume it isn't, given how much I'm asking about it.

I assume nothing. Things are complicated enough.

Touche!

I am making an explicit point that it is not hypothetical.

[LaLight]

So let me get the big idea straight...

We are all either human or cylon but as far as I can tell, none of us currently knows which even we are ourselves, let alone others. But this doesn't seem to matter, at least not yet.

We are all either civilian or military. As president, I'm civilian. This distinction wil likely have effects on the game (e.g. if I'm exiled and incoming VP is military, it triggers a turning point). But this isn't the typical mafia game alignments of mafia or town.

Then we are either town-aligned or cylon-aligned... different than the first point above. This is the actual mafia-town distinction we are used to. We all are either human-aligned, or pretending that we are human-aligned, as per usual mafia games.

Also, we each have a character, with a character arc that can affect things. Whether they have abilities or other goals in mind, this adds complexity.

On top of that, I also have a role of president with additional effects (such as choosing from the deck). And MiX is VP. But those seem to be the only extra roles (at least right now).

Can someone either confirm or correct me that these are the basic things I need to pull out of game intro, as compared to a normal game.

i had no idea scum is called "cylon-aligned" vote: mathdude

[LaLight]

Also, I think we should vote for the players who have confirmed that "cylon-aligned" is the mafia alignment, given that isn't public information and I had no clue.

yup

[LaLight]

Also, also, everyone focused on the wrong part of my question (human/cylon).   I guess my analogy was closer to that.

Imagine you are playing a WWII-themed game.  Your receive "It is 1944.  You are a civilian.  Your flavor name is General MacArthur."  How do you reconcile that?

If I was playing a WWII themed game were some players were civilians and some were military and that fact was independent of alignment, I would assume MacArthur was military. If I received that PM, I guess I would assume that either the GM was doing something very odd with the flavor or the game was bastard

The confusion that I think needs to be cleared up with the "human/cylon" thing is that the terms are being used in this game to refer to two aspects of people's roles, their alignment and their "species". A player's species could be Cylon but their alignment could be human and vice-versa. If you want to go back to the WWII analogy, imagine a game where players have alignments of Allies and Axis as well as "nationalities" that are independent. So you could have a character that was "German" but whose alignment was "Allies"

Bolding the issue.

There are stuff related to our roles.  There is human OR cylon, irrespective of alignment.  There is military OR civilian, irrespective of alignment.  And there is a flavor name.

Do all three of these need to match?  As explained by others, since plenty of Cylons don't know they are Cylons in the show, no issues there.  But man, it's hard to be in the military and not know it.

I just googled "BSG wiki" and clicked the first link, then scrolled to the first character that appeared, which was Kara Thrace.  Per the wiki, Kara was a Viper pilot (whatever that is) in the Colonial Fleet.  That would make Kara Thrace a member of the military.

If a player's PM assigned them both Kara and "civilian," what does that mean?  What does it say about the setup?  What does it mean for how we understand claims?

imo 1) military/civilian is just a part of a flavor name that gives additional functions
2) in future games a military person can retire and a civilian may enter military for all we know

that's why it's here

[Swowl]

That is MiX, Robz, and mathdude, btw.
*snip*

Interesting. I was giving this no credit at first, but I assume these are what you were talking about:

You can probably be a human and be cylon-aligned, and you can probably be a cylon and be human-aligned. The mere fact we don't know if we're human or cylon says that they're separate from alignment, although there's at least 1 cylon-aligned cylon, so being a cylon should be scummy.

Then we are either town-aligned or cylon-aligned... different than the first point above. This is the actual mafia-town distinction we are used to. We all are either human-aligned, or pretending that we are human-aligned, as per usual mafia games.

It seems like this has been explained a thousand times already, but in case it isn't clear: In Battlestar Galactica, there are humans who are human-aligned and Cylons who are Cylon-aligned, but there are also quite a few Cylons who are human-aligned (like, half the cylons by the end of the show!) and at least one human who is for a long time Cylon-aligned.

So, you do not know if you are human or Cylon. So your theory here is it is skummy that they referred to "Cylon-aligned" in comparison to "human aligned" when all we know is there is "human-aligned"?
If so, I get what you are saying, but my issue would be:

1. Mix/Robz doesn't fuck that up.
2. Mathdude said they didn't know the flavor... and I agree with you on the suspicion of Mix/Math... but with mix off the table it is kind of a reach, as I am more inclined to just chalk it up to Math reading the wiki and seeing the cylons are the bad guys.

I get the suspicion I guess, but I guess my question is - Do you really think you caught 3 skum right here all making the same mistake?

[ashersky]

imo 1) military/civilian is just a part of a flavor name that gives additional functions
2) in future games a military person can retire and a civilian may enter military for all we know

that's why it's here

These are true statements, but that's why I worry about the inconsistency of application.

I am taking civilian in this game to mean "not a member of the military" and military to mean "member of the military."

There is a clear difference between a member of the military and a civilian (in general terms).  Someone who retires then becomes a veteran and a civilian again.  If such actions are possible over the arc of this series of games, then a player's military/civilian status should change along with the flavor character.

I get that civilian/military is a thing for the president/VP mechanic.  If that's the only reason, not making it align with flavor names seems odd, but I guess okay if there's a numerical or other reason for it.

If there are more reasons for civ/mil outside of the president/VP mechanics, like powers that only affect one or the other, can't affect one or the other, etc. etc. etc., again I get it's use.  The confusion comes when you have a flavor name that is clearly one or the other and an assignment of the opposite for the player themselves.

I have yet to figure out a reasons for why that might be done.  To force awkward claims as an additional technical challenge?  "Hey, I'm Sgt. Pepper but I'm actually a civilian, not lying, promise!" sorts of stuff?

What if it is the key to unlocking the secrets of the universe (or at least for catching mafia)?

[ashersky]

That is MiX, Robz, and mathdude, btw.
*snip*

Interesting. I was giving this no credit at first, but I assume these are what you were talking about:

You can probably be a human and be cylon-aligned, and you can probably be a cylon and be human-aligned. The mere fact we don't know if we're human or cylon says that they're separate from alignment, although there's at least 1 cylon-aligned cylon, so being a cylon should be scummy.

Then we are either town-aligned or cylon-aligned... different than the first point above. This is the actual mafia-town distinction we are used to. We all are either human-aligned, or pretending that we are human-aligned, as per usual mafia games.

It seems like this has been explained a thousand times already, but in case it isn't clear: In Battlestar Galactica, there are humans who are human-aligned and Cylons who are Cylon-aligned, but there are also quite a few Cylons who are human-aligned (like, half the cylons by the end of the show!) and at least one human who is for a long time Cylon-aligned.

So, you do not know if you are human or Cylon. So your theory here is it is skummy that they referred to "Cylon-aligned" in comparison to "human aligned" when all we know is there is "human-aligned"?
If so, I get what you are saying, but my issue would be:

1. Mix/Robz doesn't fuck that up.
2. Mathdude said they didn't know the flavor... and I agree with you on the suspicion of Mix/Math... but with mix off the table it is kind of a reach, as I am more inclined to just chalk it up to Math reading the wiki and seeing the cylons are the bad guys.

I get the suspicion I guess, but I guess my question is - Do you really think you caught 3 skum right here all making the same mistake?

In backward order -- of course I caught 3 mafia with one move.  It's me we're talking about here.

MiX's post is absolutely the worst.  How does he know there is "at least 1 cylon-aligned cylon" in the game?  No one, and I mean NO ONE should know that, right?  Even mafia don't know if they are human or cylon, per the rules.  Hence, most likely to make this sort of statement is a player who is intimately aware of some cylon alignment and at least one flavor name within it that is a cylon on the show.

Robz is the least worst of the posts, as it's clearly focused on flavor itself.

[faust]

Vote Count 1.3

Dylan32 (1): A Drowned Kernel
ashersky (1): mathdude
Robz888 (1): EFHW
Awaclus (1): MiX
MiX (1): ashersky

Not Voting (9): Jack Rudd, SpaceAnemone, WestCoastDidds, scolapasta, LaLight, Dylan32, Swowl, Robz888, Awaclus

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to exile. Day 1 ends March 23, 2021, 03:30:00 am.

[mathdude]

That is MiX, Robz, and mathdude, btw.
*snip*

Interesting. I was giving this no credit at first, but I assume these are what you were talking about:

You can probably be a human and be cylon-aligned, and you can probably be a cylon and be human-aligned. The mere fact we don't know if we're human or cylon says that they're separate from alignment, although there's at least 1 cylon-aligned cylon, so being a cylon should be scummy.

Then we are either town-aligned or cylon-aligned... different than the first point above. This is the actual mafia-town distinction we are used to. We all are either human-aligned, or pretending that we are human-aligned, as per usual mafia games.

It seems like this has been explained a thousand times already, but in case it isn't clear: In Battlestar Galactica, there are humans who are human-aligned and Cylons who are Cylon-aligned, but there are also quite a few Cylons who are human-aligned (like, half the cylons by the end of the show!) and at least one human who is for a long time Cylon-aligned.

So, you do not know if you are human or Cylon. So your theory here is it is skummy that they referred to "Cylon-aligned" in comparison to "human aligned" when all we know is there is "human-aligned"?
If so, I get what you are saying, but my issue would be:

1. Mix/Robz doesn't fuck that up.
2. Mathdude said they didn't know the flavor... and I agree with you on the suspicion of Mix/Math... but with mix off the table it is kind of a reach, as I am more inclined to just chalk it up to Math reading the wiki and seeing the cylons are the bad guys.

I get the suspicion I guess, but I guess my question is - Do you really think you caught 3 skum right here all making the same mistake?

In backward order -- of course I caught 3 mafia with one move.  It's me we're talking about here.

MiX's post is absolutely the worst.  How does he know there is "at least 1 cylon-aligned cylon" in the game?  No one, and I mean NO ONE should know that, right?  Even mafia don't know if they are human or cylon, per the rules.  Hence, most likely to make this sort of statement is a player who is intimately aware of some cylon alignment and at least one flavor name within it that is a cylon on the show.

Robz is the least worst of the posts, as it's clearly focused on flavor itself.

I'm just going on the assumption that mafia is cylon-aligned, based on them being opposite species here. Doesn't that make sense?

Are you just upset I voted for you?

[mathdude]

That is MiX, Robz, and mathdude, btw.

Makes sense a mafia president would choose a mafia VP and Hated.

Yes, let's set up a public connection, so I can get a QT with someone I would (presumably, based on standard Mafia) already have a QT with if we were both Mafia. That makes sense. /sarcasm

Upset you weren't picked as VP?

[LaLight]

That is MiX, Robz, and mathdude, btw.

Makes sense a mafia president would choose a mafia VP and Hated.

Yes, let's set up a public connection, so I can get a QT with someone I would (presumably, based on standard Mafia) already have a QT with if we were both Mafia. That makes sense. /sarcasm

Upset you weren't picked as VP?

Well, possibly mafia does not have a day QT, while you and MiX do

[MiX]

That is MiX, Robz, and mathdude, btw.
*snip*

Interesting. I was giving this no credit at first, but I assume these are what you were talking about:

You can probably be a human and be cylon-aligned, and you can probably be a cylon and be human-aligned. The mere fact we don't know if we're human or cylon says that they're separate from alignment, although there's at least 1 cylon-aligned cylon, so being a cylon should be scummy.

Then we are either town-aligned or cylon-aligned... different than the first point above. This is the actual mafia-town distinction we are used to. We all are either human-aligned, or pretending that we are human-aligned, as per usual mafia games.

It seems like this has been explained a thousand times already, but in case it isn't clear: In Battlestar Galactica, there are humans who are human-aligned and Cylons who are Cylon-aligned, but there are also quite a few Cylons who are human-aligned (like, half the cylons by the end of the show!) and at least one human who is for a long time Cylon-aligned.

So, you do not know if you are human or Cylon. So your theory here is it is skummy that they referred to "Cylon-aligned" in comparison to "human aligned" when all we know is there is "human-aligned"?
If so, I get what you are saying, but my issue would be:

1. Mix/Robz doesn't fuck that up.
2. Mathdude said they didn't know the flavor... and I agree with you on the suspicion of Mix/Math... but with mix off the table it is kind of a reach, as I am more inclined to just chalk it up to Math reading the wiki and seeing the cylons are the bad guys.

I get the suspicion I guess, but I guess my question is - Do you really think you caught 3 skum right here all making the same mistake?

In backward order -- of course I caught 3 mafia with one move.  It's me we're talking about here.

MiX's post is absolutely the worst.  How does he know there is "at least 1 cylon-aligned cylon" in the game?  No one, and I mean NO ONE should know that, right?  Even mafia don't know if they are human or cylon, per the rules.  Hence, most likely to make this sort of statement is a player who is intimately aware of some cylon alignment and at least one flavor name within it that is a cylon on the show.

Robz is the least worst of the posts, as it's clearly focused on flavor itself.

When have you ever caught 3 scum with one move?

Yeah no one knows that except a rational mind making rational assumptions. How can you think it's alignment indicative if not even scum knows it? I think you cannot argue with "there's at least 1 human human-aligned player", right? Well, the same goes for 1 cylon cylon-aligned. It doesn't really make sense for none of the cylons to be cylon-aligned.

If it makes sense to call people cylon-aligned in the flavor, then it would be really likely that there's a faction with that name, right? I wouldn't know, however, and I doubt that specific term is used much, as it's kinda clunky.

That is MiX, Robz, and mathdude, btw.

Makes sense a mafia president would choose a mafia VP and Hated.

Yes, let's set up a public connection, so I can get a QT with someone I would (presumably, based on standard Mafia) already have a QT with if we were both Mafia. That makes sense. /sarcasm

Upset you weren't picked as VP?

Well, possibly mafia does not have a day QT, while you and MiX do

I would not put myself on a day QT unless we're the only members of our faction. WIFOM exists, but as ash said, why would scum pick me to be in a QT?

[MiX]

As an aside: math, I'm using the QT to post less important thoughts about the current topic of discussion, so please check it regularly when we're both online (like now).

Safe to assume it isn't, given how much I'm asking about it.

Hmm! I would say that your character is...flexible: it's not obvious that they're civilian or military. But you seem to imply that it would be obvious, in which case I can only answer with confusion.

[MiX]

I'm townreading everyone. Except

Vote: Robz

[A Drowned Kernel]

Even mafia don't know if they are human or cylon, per the rules.

As a nitpick, the rule is:

By default, players are unaware of their species.

"By default" implies that there are likely exceptions

[ashersky]

Even mafia don't know if they are human or cylon, per the rules.

As a nitpick, the rule is:

By default, players are unaware of their species.

"By default" implies that there are likely exceptions

My guess on "by default" is that no one knows until they know.  Like, role powers, etc.

[ashersky]

I'm just going on the assumption that mafia is cylon-aligned, based on them being opposite species here. Doesn't that make sense?

Are you just upset I voted for you?

Are Cylons the opposite species?  Or just another species?  Actually, I thought they were robots or something.  I've not seen the show.

It could make sense, except what if they aren't?  I've given two examples already that I found in under a minute using Google.  There's no requirement that "Cylon-aligned" is a thing, and assuming it does as town is inherently dangerous.  I feel like multiple people have argued that Cylons can be good anyway.  So no, it does not make sense, in the sense that I disagree with you as it does not make sense to me.  It might make sense to you, but I would argue, as I just did, that you are mistaken.

Also, did you vote for me?  I didn't notice, nor do I care.  if you have a second vote, feel free to place that one on me, too.

[ashersky]

That is MiX, Robz, and mathdude, btw.

Makes sense a mafia president would choose a mafia VP and Hated.

Yes, let's set up a public connection, so I can get a QT with someone I would (presumably, based on standard Mafia) already have a QT with if we were both Mafia. That makes sense. /sarcasm

Upset you weren't picked as VP?

Sarcastic confirmation of something is a million times a mafiatell.  Just so you know.

I definitely did not want to be either President or VP.  That said, I would not have picked the card that you picked.

[ashersky]

When have you ever caught 3 scum with one move?

Never, that I know of.

[ashersky]

Yeah no one knows that except a rational mind making rational assumptions. How can you think it's alignment indicative if not even scum knows it? I think you cannot argue with "there's at least 1 human human-aligned player", right? Well, the same goes for 1 cylon cylon-aligned. It doesn't really make sense for none of the cylons to be cylon-aligned.

If it makes sense to call people cylon-aligned in the flavor, then it would be really likely that there's a faction with that name, right? I wouldn't know, however, and I doubt that specific term is used much, as it's kinda clunky.

I can argue with anything you say.  I might not be right, but I can argue.  We don't know if there are any human human-aligned players.  The entire game could be Cylons forced to play this game against each other to see who deserves to be sent on the next mission (does that fit in the flavor?).  So no, I do not accept your assumption.

When has anyone been called "cylon-aligned" in the flavor itself (I may have missed that)?  Like, why would he used "aligned" in the flavor in that way, anyway?  I'm confused on that point.

[ashersky]

Hmm! I would say that your character is...flexible: it's not obvious that they're civilian or military. But you seem to imply that it would be obvious, in which case I can only answer with confusion.

Confusion is also my state of mind at this point, on this point.

It's as clear as "You are Johnny, an infant born one hour ago.  You have never left the hospital, nor can you speak or walk.  You are in the military."

[ashersky]

I realize after reading that Johnny thing that there may be settings in which one is "born into military service," like Ender or something, so my made up analogy wasn't perfect.  Apologies.

[scolapasta]

So, here's the thing -  I think knowing the flavor, it's a decent assumption to make that there is a cylon aligned faction. Were it me, and I posted about it, I would make it clear I was making the assumption. But the first instance of this is MiX, and we all know he posts assumptions as 100% accurate, no chance it's wrong fact. So if the first instance had been anyone else, I would have been a little more suspicious.; for MiX it's mostly NAI.

And then after it's out there in the void? I could see using the term and dropping the "I assume." So I think anyone else who mentioned it is also likely NAI.

I mean at this point, it's all being discussed as fact, when it really still is an assumption, no? Unless anyone's who's actually scum wants to confirm??

[scolapasta]

But I will add, mathdude raises some suspicion for me:

• did seem somewhat defensive and sarcastic about it; and I agree with ash that seems like it could be a tell.
• asked about why would he want a chat with a fellow scum, leaving out the fact that this is a day chat and scum chat is usually a night only thing (at least in my limited experience; that one game I was scum, we had day chat and everyone seemed to treat it like it was a special cookie)
• (least strong) this quote below. Based on my theory above, I would have maybe expected something mentioning the fact that someone had already used the term.

I'm just going on the assumption that mafia is cylon-aligned, based on them being opposite species here. Doesn't that make sense?

But then if he were scum, could Mix also be scum?

Meh, I never know how to read MiX. But Ithink this is all enough for an initial vote for:

Vote: mathdude

[A Drowned Kernel]

I'm just going on the assumption that mafia is cylon-aligned, based on them being opposite species here. Doesn't that make sense?

Are you just upset I voted for you?

Are Cylons the opposite species?  Or just another species?  Actually, I thought they were robots or something.  I've not seen the show.

It could make sense, except what if they aren't?  I've given two examples already that I found in under a minute using Google.  There's no requirement that "Cylon-aligned" is a thing, and assuming it does as town is inherently dangerous.  I feel like multiple people have argued that Cylons can be good anyway.  So no, it does not make sense, in the sense that I disagree with you as it does not make sense to me.  It might make sense to you, but I would argue, as I just did, that you are mistaken.

Also, did you vote for me?  I didn't notice, nor do I care.  if you have a second vote, feel free to place that one on me, too.

They're robots that can disguise themselves as humans, basically. It's been awhile since I've seen the show but I'm pretty sure the two examples you gave would be effectively "Cylon aligned". There are factions within the human society, but the only force in the show that makes sense to be opposed to humanity in general would be the cylons as a group. If the town alignment was something like "the Colonial Government" I would for sure say that scum wasn't necessarily the cylons, but given that town is "human-aligned", scum is probably "cylon-aligned" even if there aren't called precisely that

[A Drowned Kernel]

But I will add, mathdude raises some suspicion for me:

• did seem somewhat defensive and sarcastic about it; and I agree with ash that seems like it could be a tell.
• asked about why would he want a chat with a fellow scum, leaving out the fact that this is a day chat and scum chat is usually a night only thing (at least in my limited experience; that one game I was scum, we had day chat and everyone seemed to treat it like it was a special cookie)
• (least strong) this quote below. Based on my theory above, I would have maybe expected something mentioning the fact that someone had already used the term.

I'm just going on the assumption that mafia is cylon-aligned, based on them being opposite species here. Doesn't that make sense?

But then if he were scum, could Mix also be scum?

Meh, I never know how to read MiX. But Ithink this is all enough for an initial vote for:

Vote: mathdude

vote: scolapasta

I would rather not exile our president day one, especially not knowing whether or not mix is a civilian

[LaLight]

I'm townreading everyone. Except

Vote: Robz

how so? just some time ago you agreed with me on his towniness

[scolapasta]

On the military / civilian thing, I would also have assumed that if someone had a flavor themed military character, they'd be military - at least for this first season. But that's just another assumption, and ash's experience seems to imply it's false. Or he wants us to think it's false.

[Robz888]

Also, I think we should vote for the players who have confirmed that "cylon-aligned" is the mafia alignment, given that isn't public information and I had no clue.

Well, I've watched the show, and "cylon-aligned" is the bad guys. I know that's the mafia alignment in the same way I would know "King Koopa aligned" is the mafia alignment without being specifically told (if this were Mario mafia, for instance).

[Robz888]

Vote: ash for fixating on this.

[MiX]

I'm just going on the assumption that mafia is cylon-aligned, based on them being opposite species here. Doesn't that make sense?

Are you just upset I voted for you?

Are Cylons the opposite species?  Or just another species?  Actually, I thought they were robots or something.  I've not seen the show.

It could make sense, except what if they aren't?  I've given two examples already that I found in under a minute using Google.  There's no requirement that "Cylon-aligned" is a thing, and assuming it does as town is inherently dangerous.  I feel like multiple people have argued that Cylons can be good anyway.  So no, it does not make sense, in the sense that I disagree with you as it does not make sense to me.  It might make sense to you, but I would argue, as I just did, that you are mistaken.

Also, did you vote for me?  I didn't notice, nor do I care.  if you have a second vote, feel free to place that one on me, too.

This is a very reasonable post that I wish you had said before. I have no doubt that "cylon-aligned" (or equivalent) is a threat to humanity this game, but they might not actually be the main scum. That would be...pretty unlikely, but it's not a twist outside faust's wheelhouse.

Hmm! I would say that your character is...flexible: it's not obvious that they're civilian or military. But you seem to imply that it would be obvious, in which case I can only answer with confusion.

Confusion is also my state of mind at this point, on this point.

It's as clear as "You are Johnny, an infant born one hour ago.  You have never left the hospital, nor can you speak or walk.  You are in the military."

I'll have to give this some more thought. Perhaps someone that knows the flavor better can find an example of when this would happen?

It's possible that "military" is simply anyone that would be really weird if they became the president? Then you could have clearly military people be called civilian this game.

So, here's the thing -  I think knowing the flavor, it's a decent assumption to make that there is a cylon aligned faction. Were it me, and I posted about it, I would make it clear I was making the assumption. But the first instance of this is MiX, and we all know he posts assumptions as 100% accurate, no chance it's wrong fact. So if the first instance had been anyone else, I would have been a little more suspicious.; for MiX it's mostly NAI.

And then after it's out there in the void? I could see using the term and dropping the "I assume." So I think anyone else who mentioned it is also likely NAI.

I mean at this point, it's all being discussed as fact, when it really still is an assumption, no? Unless anyone's who's actually scum wants to confirm??

We are all playing under the assumption that there is a main scum faction, right? Do we have to say "I assume" whenever anyone says that there's scum? And why would scum say "I assume" less than town? I disagree that being the first person to say something about the scum faction has to say "I assume", or at the very least that it's scummy. Of course, I'm the one saying this, so it holds little to no value.

But I will add, mathdude raises some suspicion for me:

• did seem somewhat defensive and sarcastic about it; and I agree with ash that seems like it could be a tell.
• asked about why would he want a chat with a fellow scum, leaving out the fact that this is a day chat and scum chat is usually a night only thing (at least in my limited experience; that one game I was scum, we had day chat and everyone seemed to treat it like it was a special cookie)
• (least strong) this quote below. Based on my theory above, I would have maybe expected something mentioning the fact that someone had already used the term.

I'm just going on the assumption that mafia is cylon-aligned, based on them being opposite species here. Doesn't that make sense?

But then if he were scum, could Mix also be scum?

Meh, I never know how to read MiX. But Ithink this is all enough for an initial vote for:

Vote: mathdude

I had the same reaction when I read math's posts, so I think this is towny.

Vote: mathdude

vote: scolapasta

I would rather not exile our president day one, especially not knowing whether or not mix is a civilian

Yes, sure, I agree, but why vote scola?

[MiX]

I'm townreading everyone. Except

Vote: Robz

how so? just some time ago you agreed with me on his towniness

I reread him, and it felt like he did wacky Robz things that look really townie and make you want to give him a day pass...without actually earning it. It feels like entertainment . And I'm townreading...pretty much everyone else.

Vote: ash for fixating on this.

I don't think it's scummy, it's good for everyone to be on the same page in terms of the setup, and ash has brought a valuable perspective to the table, as he always does.

[scolapasta]

I am curious to know what's going on with the mostly absent people (Dylan, Jack, WCD, to a lesser degree maybe EFHW and space). Not enough to suspect / vote for them*, but wanting to hear more from them.

* I don't usually buy into the lurkers being scum idea, at least not early on D1.

[scolapasta]

@mathdude, why did you pick Curfew as the executive order? (if you already explained, apologies, I just quickly reread and didn't find it)

[A Drowned Kernel]

Vote: mathdude

vote: scolapasta

I would rather not exile our president day one, especially not knowing whether or not mix is a civilian

Yes, sure, I agree, but why vote scola?

Why not vote scola? It's a bad and scummy vote

[Jack Rudd]

I'm just not all that familiar with Mafia, and am lurking to pick up ideas.

(I'm not all that talkative in general in social deduction games, whichever side I'm on.)

[WestCoastDidds]

I am curious to know what's going on with the mostly absent people (Dylan, Jack, WCD, to a lesser degree maybe EFHW and space). Not enough to suspect / vote for them*, but wanting to hear more from them.

* I don't usually buy into the lurkers being scum idea, at least not early on D1.

I 100% laughed at "the first instance of this is MiX, and we all know he posts assumptions as 100% accurate, no chance it's wrong fact. So if the first instance had been anyone else, I would have been a little more suspicious.; for MiX it's mostly NAI" because that ish is truth.

I mostly don't have much to say... seems to me like cyclons are probably the baddies since on the show they are the baddies, but it was super interesting to me that Ash pointed out that we don't actually know that.  I am not confused about why my character is civilian or military, but I can see why other would be.  If I was a new (math)dude, I'd probably pick MiX to be my VP because of the QT fun. Mathdude has very little playing time with us so far, but among that he does have, MiX has featured prominently. He knows us, he talks a lot, and he's smart. I think it would be not smart to choose a fellow baddie, though, so I am going to assume they are not both baddies for the time being.

Although its been a couple of days, there hasn't actually been much discussion beyond those points.  Ash has lept us focused on the various alignment questions and I can't figure out why those are important, but then again, I am not confused so maybe I'm just not getting it. I don't like voting until I am am feeling more confident, but if you made me vote right now, it would be for Ash.

[mathdude]

I also think we should not discuss military/civilian and cylon/human thing. There's something to form reads on.

For example I think makes too much sense to be town, Robz is making too little sense to be scum, I don't know mathdude and their meta (hi!) which I would like to know

anyway, I don't want the conversion shifting from Mafia to Flavor talking if this makes sense

god i missed this game

We probably can't talk about mathdude's meta, since the dude has only been in one game and it's not over yet.

It makes it hard for you (and others), since I have no "meta" here... as you said, my only other game isn't over yet.  But it also makes it hard for me.  Later in this post, I'm going to say "this is just who I am", but you guys will have no proof of that, having not seen me play games here before.  So I need to be aware of that as I type... I need to find a balance between who I am, and (as a newer player here) who I'm "supposed to be" to fit in with the general play style on this forum.  At least being a town-aligned civilian, I don't need to pretend to be something I'm not here.

Also, I think we should vote for the players who have confirmed that "cylon-aligned" is the mafia alignment, given that isn't public information and I had no clue.

I assumed that was the opposite of humsn-aligned and wouldn't be surprised if others did too.

I assume nothing.  Things are complicated enough.  Until things are mod-confirmed, seems best to assume anything is possible.  Couldn't it just as easily be "Caprica-aligned" or "One True God-aligned" (based on the same wiki I found and clicking on Cylons)?

Seeming too sure it is "Cylon-aligned" is a mafia tell.

I'm not sure who you're talking about as "seeming too sure".  As far as I can tell, MiX used the term first, I used it second, and Robz used it third.  I don't think anyone is stuck to it.  We all just assumed, based on the information given.  Maybe we're wrong... and that's okay.  Maybe we're right... and that's okay too.

But given all the confusion and tangents this seems to have created, it seems like it might be better to just refer to "human-aligned" as Town, and others as "not Town" or "Mafia"/"scum", or possibly third parties, as has been brought up as well as a possibility.  I was trying to stick with flavour (as I have known nothing about it, and am trying to get more familiar).

i had no idea scum is called "cylon-aligned" vote: mathdude

I don't either.  It was a guess/assumption, or even following the train of thought since MiX did actually mention it first.  Doesn't really matter to me... it's a non-issue.  Voting me totally makes sense though... new here, not knowing general expectations of how/what to post in these Mafia forums, not knowing flavour, and *not being the one who even brought up the term in the first place!* /sarcasm

That is MiX, Robz, and mathdude, btw.

Makes sense a mafia president would choose a mafia VP and Hated.

Yes, let's set up a public connection, so I can get a QT with someone I would (presumably, based on standard Mafia) already have a QT with if we were both Mafia. That makes sense. /sarcasm

Upset you weren't picked as VP?

Well, possibly mafia does not have a day QT, while you and MiX do

This is something I'm still getting used to.  When I used to play Mafia in the past, it never had a "night only chat" for Mafia - there, it was just permanent chat.  So this is new to me, trying to remember that scum may not be able to talk to each other during the day.

But I will add, mathdude raises some suspicion for me:

• did seem somewhat defensive and sarcastic about it; and I agree with ash that seems like it could be a tell.
• asked about why would he want a chat with a fellow scum, leaving out the fact that this is a day chat and scum chat is usually a night only thing (at least in my limited experience; that one game I was scum, we had day chat and everyone seemed to treat it like it was a special cookie)
• (least strong) this quote below. Based on my theory above, I would have maybe expected something mentioning the fact that someone had already used the term.

I'm just going on the assumption that mafia is cylon-aligned, based on them being opposite species here. Doesn't that make sense?

But then if he were scum, could Mix also be scum?

Meh, I never know how to read MiX. But Ithink this is all enough for an initial vote for:

Vote: mathdude

Defensive... yes, responses can often be seen that way.  Sarcastic... you bet.  That's who I am.  Get used to it.  I'm not going to stop just because you say it's a possible tell.  If anything, if I were scum, I'd probably be much more muted and cautious, trying not to attract attention.  As town-aligned, I'm me.  I'm speaking freely, and I'll poke and prod people, trying to get responses.

And the day-chat issue... as mentioned above, I'm not used to this concept.  Read what I posted earlier, and it should be pretty clear.

Are you just upset I voted for you?

Also, did you vote for me?  I didn't notice, nor do I care.  if you have a second vote, feel free to place that one on me, too.

It would be nice to have a second vote.  But I don't.  Also, you probably did notice since it was in the VC just a few posts before yours.  And that's not like something you'd miss.

--snip--
 /sarcasm

Upset you weren't picked as VP?

Sarcastic confirmation of something is a million times a mafiatell.  Just so you know.

I definitely did not want to be either President or VP.  That said, I would not have picked the card that you picked.

A million times a mafiatell.  Thanks for the information.  Too bad.  I'll "cave" on some things (a.k.a. learn to adapt to the expectations of games on this forum)... but I'm not giving up my sarcasm.

Don't worry, you weren't really in the running for VP.  It may have been useful to have a separate QT with you to try to figure you out... but what would we say there that we won't say in here anyway?

@mathdude, why did you pick Curfew as the executive order? (if you already explained, apologies, I just quickly reread and didn't find it)

Ash wouldn't have picked the one I did... no surprise, we seem to be very different players.  I did sort of answer (slash not answer) why I picked what I did.  Basically, I said that the other two options seemed to be better suited for use on a later day, and I wasn't planning to say much more yet as I wasn't sure what the implications of saying more would be.

I will add to that a little now.  At the time, I assumed that each executive order card was one-and-done.  Use it, it's gone.  Next night/day, use another, then it's gone... etc.  It has been confirmed to me via QT that this is not the case.  Enacted orders are not removed from the deck.  So maybe I would have chosen differently if I had known that first.

Also, as was evident by MiX's post right after he was announced as VP and the Order was announced... I made both decisions at the same time, rather than waiting for a VP's input on which order to enact.  I wasn't sure exactly on timelines, and didn't want the order to be chosen randomly (if I hadn't submitted an order in time).  Looking back, I definitely should have done it differently, but I can't change it now.  Assuming I'm around still tomorrow, I'll be more "careful" with my choice.  I don't think it's a bad choice for today, but maybe one of the other ones would have been better (now knowing that it will still be available again in the future, rather than eliminated).

Here are my initial responses, so anyone looking into this doesn't have to go find them:

why mix math?

MiX seems to know what's going on. With me not knowing flavour, I figured it could help me get started in this complex game. It really was a shot in the dark on the first day.

also also @ Math - why pick curfew? what were your other options?

I'll hold off on saying much about that until I know whether there are advantages or disadvantages to doing it. I will say I think other option(s) may be more useful later.

I'm just going on the assumption that mafia is cylon-aligned, based on them being opposite species here. Doesn't that make sense?

Are Cylons the opposite species?  Or just another species?  Actually, I thought they were robots or something.  I've not seen the show.

Semantics?  You really like to nitpick, don't you.  If I am ever scum in the future where you're playing too, I'm really going to have to be careful with what I say.

Vote: ash for fixating on this.

I agree... and that would be why my vote is staying there for now!

On the military / civilian thing, I would also have assumed that if someone had a flavor themed military character, they'd be military - at least for this first season. But that's just another assumption, and ash's experience seems to imply it's false. Or he wants us to think it's false.

This "first season" comment makes sense to me.  But I don't know how you guys run RMM games here, and I don't know how faust runs games, so anything is possible.  However, based on the small amount I know of ash's meta, I would strongly lean towards your final comment... ash wants us to think it's false.  Why?  Maybe just because it's ash?  Maybe because ash is scum.  No idea yet.

I'm just not all that familiar with Mafia, and am lurking to pick up ideas.

(I'm not all that talkative in general in social deduction games, whichever side I'm on.)

Welcome... we seem to be in similar boats, learning things here.  I would recommend you join the conversation here though.  It's the best way to get your feet wet (and potentially be analyzed to pieces).  But that's part of the game.

[Awaclus]

Vote: ADK

[mathdude]

If I was a new (math)dude, I'd probably pick MiX to be my VP because of the QT fun. Mathdude has very little playing time with us so far, but among that he does have, MiX has featured prominently. He knows us, he talks a lot, and he's smart.

This seems to be pretty accurate. My choice of VP is to hopefully help me get into the game (including learning flavour). It's not like I could read you guys very well today. It's day 1 and I'm new. I just have to hope MiX is Town, and probably have to hope they are civilian too.

Maybe by my next pick, I'll be able to use my reads instead of random luck.

[WestCoastDidds]

Yeah, I completely get why you'd choose him and I think you chose well.

[scolapasta]

I mostly don't have much to say... seems to me like cyclons are probably the baddies since on the show they are the baddies, but it was super interesting to me that Ash pointed out that we don't actually know that.  I am not confused about why my character is civilian or military, but I can see why other would be.  If I was a new (math)dude, I'd probably pick MiX to be my VP because of the QT fun. Mathdude has very little playing time with us so far, but among that he does have, MiX has featured prominently. He knows us, he talks a lot, and he's smart. I think it would be not smart to choose a fellow baddie, though, so I am going to assume they are not both baddies for the time being.

I think I'm on board with the "not both baddies" idea. If mathdude were scum, I think it's more likely that he'd pick a townie to be his VP. And picking MiX, who is vocal would be a good pick then.

...

There's a lot to process in this post.

A few observations:
• there's a lot of, you don'y know me but this is how I'd play as town, so if I'm doing it I'm likely town. All of which may be true, but there's really no way to confirm.

• Same with, things like "in mafia games I've played, there's always been day chat." Again not confirmable, but very convenient.

• I'm not sure how deeply others read the rules; but I usually try to check them carefully. And especially, had I been president, I would've paid special attention to those rules, and it's fairly clear 36 hours for VP; 72 hours for exec order. i.e. plenty of time to first do one, chat some with MiX (I mean why else pick MiX for VP if you don't expect to be able to chat him with him during the 2nd 36 hours). So the "I wasn't sure exactly on timelines, and didn't want the order to be chosen randomly" seems sketch.

• Similarly the "It has been confirmed to me via QT that this is not the case. [about orders not being and one done]". that' also clearly spelled out in the rules: "Whenever you would draw from the Executive Order deck and there are less than 3 cards left, shuffle all cards into the deck."

So, are all these things indicative of mathdude's scuminess? Maybe, maybe not. But a lot of it is a very convenient way to defend things that at first blush, are at least suspect.

I also would rather not brig a townie president D1, but a scum pres? definitely. And at this point, there are no other votes on mathdude, anyway, so I don't see much of a risk if this getting rushed.

[mathdude]

...

There's a lot to process in this post.

A few observations:
• there's a lot of, you don'y know me but this is how I'd play as town, so if I'm doing it I'm likely town. All of which may be true, but there's really no way to confirm.

• Same with, things like "in mafia games I've played, there's always been day chat." Again not confirmable, but very convenient.

• I'm not sure how deeply others read the rules; but I usually try to check them carefully. And especially, had I been president, I would've paid special attention to those rules, and it's fairly clear 36 hours for VP; 72 hours for exec order. i.e. plenty of time to first do one, chat some with MiX (I mean why else pick MiX for VP if you don't expect to be able to chat him with him during the 2nd 36 hours). So the "I wasn't sure exactly on timelines, and didn't want the order to be chosen randomly" seems sketch.

• Similarly the "It has been confirmed to me via QT that this is not the case. [about orders not being and one done]". that' also clearly spelled out in the rules: "Whenever you would draw from the Executive Order deck and there are less than 3 cards left, shuffle all cards into the deck."

So, are all these things indicative of mathdude's scuminess? Maybe, maybe not. But a lot of it is a very convenient way to defend things that at first blush, are at least suspect.

I also would rather not brig a townie president D1, but a scum pres? definitely. And at this point, there are no other votes on mathdude, anyway, so I don't see much of a risk if this getting rushed.

I'll fully acknowledge, there is a lot of "convenient" things in that post.  I'm just stating it as it is.  You can't confirm how I play.  You can't confirm that scum's "daychat is a luxury" is news to me.  That does sound convenient.  In fact, if I were in your shoes, my posts would be exactly what I'd be looking at in more detail right now.   Maybe that's my problem here though... I say a lot, but it's not in line with what "you guys" all expect, so it puts a lot of scrutiny on me.

As for the rules... they may look clear, but I didn't think they were.  Picking VP within 36 hours was not the same instruction I was given in QT (I was told end of day 1, implying that I almost had to get the Executive Order in first, since it had now a closer deadline).  Regardless, yes, I should not have sent in my Executive Order and picked VP at the same time.  I just didn't think MiX would change my mind about Executive Order - I had looked at them, and decided.  (Of course, now knowing what I do, MiX could have helped me clarify that a used up Order isn't gone for the rest of the game).  I messed up there... I admit it.  Also, in QTs (again, I recognize not verifiable), I was not given a deadline for submitting, and I wasn't sure what the "start" of the 72 hours was (nor was I given a distinct "end" or deadline) - time of QT, time of post in thread about us having roles, or even back to the beginning of the game.  So I just sent it in.

Now about the Executive Order deck...

Whenever you would draw from the Executive Order deck and there are less than 3 cards left, shuffle all cards into the deck.

I figured if used cards go back in play, with there being 6 cards, it would be "draw 3 day 1, pick one, discard all 3... draw the other 3 day 2, pick one, discard all 3... shuffle deck, do it again".  So day 2 and day 4 and possibly day 6, I will already know what I will potentially be drawing the day before.  This didn't seem right.  And therefore, the wording used in the quote seemed odd to me, to describe this.

Instead, I figured this meant "draw 3, use up one, there are now 5 left... draw 3, use up one, there are now 4 left... draw 3, use up one, there are now 3 left... draw 3, use up one, there are now 2 left... at this point, that quoted statement triggers and all get shuffled back into the deck to get back to 6".  But this shuffle wouldn't happen until day 5, which seems awfully late in the game for something like that to happen, so I wasn't going to count on those "used up" cards being back in play.  I was treating them as being permanently gone, in case we don't make it that far.  So the 2 I didn't use, I was hoping we would come back to on day 2 or 3 or maybe 4.

Moral of the story... ask faust more questions!

[EFHW]

I'm here.  Very bad at playing two games at once. Currently townreading ADK and scola.

[Robz888]

We should not exile mathdude today. We should not exile mathdude today. We should not exile mathdude today.

[Swowl]

I definitely did not want to be either President or VP.  That said, I would not have picked the card that you picked.

Are you saying that given every potential draw of cards, there is no way you pick the one that Math did?

That is MiX, Robz, and mathdude, btw.
Makes sense a mafia president would choose a mafia VP and Hated.

Yes, let's set up a public connection, so I can get a QT with someone I would (presumably, based on standard Mafia) already have a QT with if we were both Mafia. That makes sense. /sarcasm
Upset you weren't picked as VP?

Well, possibly mafia does not have a day QT, while you and MiX do

Also, the obvious point to be made that choosing mafia as mafia ensures to an extent that mafia stays in control of the decisions made regarding the executive order card mechanic. Not putting a ton of merit into that right now, but it should be mentioned.

I'm townreading everyone. Except
Vote: Robz

Why?

Sarcastic confirmation of something is a million times a mafiatell.  Just so you know.
I definitely did not want to be either President or VP.  That said, I would not have picked the card that you picked.

100% disagree. Mix, Awaclus, faust, myself... and I am sure I am missing others, would be skum 100% of the games we play by that logic.

It's as clear as "You are Johnny, an infant born one hour ago.  You have never left the hospital, nor can you speak or walk.  You are in the military."

You are Steven Hawkins in a Doctor Who episode. And he's a commando. Solved.

I would rather not exile our president day one, especially not knowing whether or not mix is a civilian

Math aside.... the focus should very much be more on whether MiX is town or skum rather than "if they are civilian".

Vote: ash for fixating on this.

Moderately skummy vote because you know ash.

I think I'm on board with the "not both baddies" idea. If mathdude were scum, I think it's more likely that he'd pick a townie to be his VP. And picking MiX, who is vocal would be a good pick then.

You don't think the value of having a Mafia teed up for the card powers would be worth mafia picking mafia?

We should not exile mathdude today. We should not exile mathdude today. We should not exile mathdude today.

Why?Why?Why?

[Swowl]

Vote: Pasta

[ashersky]

Multi-quotes are a pain from a single quote, so...

I am not good enough at math to know what every potential draw is, but I would rank it 6th out of 6.  Based on that, I think it never gets chosen.

I don't know what a Stephen Hawkins is.  What is Dr. Who?  Is that a Seuss book?  Like a sequel to Horton Hears a Who?

[SpaceAnemone]

I am curious to know what's going on with the mostly absent people (Dylan, Jack, WCD, to a lesser degree maybe EFHW and space). Not enough to suspect / vote for them*, but wanting to hear more from them.

* I don't usually buy into the lurkers being scum idea, at least not early on D1.

I'm here, just somehow chronically short of time in spite of living alone and being more than a year into lockdown. I have maybe an hour a day I can spend on games across the site right now, and  I'm a very slow reader, so merely keeping up takes a fair chunk of time.

Some thought's on Ash's big confusion over character alignment drive: you have characters like Baltar, who are human but seem to be aligned with the main Cylon faction in parts of the series, though I'd argue he's always generally self-preservation-aligned and just not a team player. Then you have Lee Adama, who switches from being a military hot-shot to a civilian leader over the course of the show, so I'd guess that's something faust might play with. The board game has a concept of a president and also an admiral, with different lines of succession for each. The basic version of the game has a military-class Lee Adama/Apollo, but one of the expansions offers an alternative civilian leader Lee as well.

[faust]

Vote Count 1.4

ashersky (2): mathdude, Robz888
Robz888 (2): EFHW, MiX
MiX (1): ashersky
mathdude (1): scolapasta
scolapasta (2): A Drowned Kernel, Swowl
A Drowned Kernel (1): Awaclus

Not Voting (5): Jack Rudd, SpaceAnemone, WestCoastDidds, LaLight, Dylan32

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to exile. Day 1 ends March 23, 2021, 03:30:00 am.

[A Drowned Kernel]

What strikes me about math's pick is that it likely has no effect right now, assuming no night zero actions, which makes a certain amount of sense for day one when you have next to no info

[WestCoastDidds]

We should not exile mathdude today. We should not exile mathdude today. We should not exile mathdude today.

Agree

[scolapasta]

Vote: Pasta

That seemed out of the blue... I mean I get that I may get votes because I'm making a case against the president, sure, but I would've assumed to have seem "more of a case" in your last post then.

To answer your question to me - I just think scum picking scum for VP seems overly suspicious. Whereas picking a civilian would allow a scum pres to ingratiate themselves with the VP.

[scolapasta]

What strikes me about math's pick is that it likely has no effect right now, assuming no night zero actions, which makes a certain amount of sense for day one when you have next to no info

Independent of night zero actions, it would have no immediate effect since it's "the following day". So this is an interesting point - i.e. if the other options had been like Civilian jurisdiction and Presidential pardon.

[EFHW]

What strikes me about math's pick is that it likely has no effect right now, assuming no night zero actions, which makes a certain amount of sense for day one when you have next to no info

But it is very pro-scum. Tomorrow, anyone who took an action will know they are hated. If they get a wagon on them, they may need to reveal that they took an action to avoid being accidentally exiled. It's mitigated somewhat by this being RMM, but it will help scum in hunting the active PRs. Or by inhibiting town actions tonight.

[MiX]

What strikes me about math's pick is that it likely has no effect right now, assuming no night zero actions, which makes a certain amount of sense for day one when you have next to no info

But it is very pro-scum. Tomorrow, anyone who took an action will know they are hated. If they get a wagon on them, they may need to reveal that they took an action to avoid being accidentally exiled. It's mitigated somewhat by this being RMM, but it will help scum in hunting the active PRs. Or by inhibiting town actions tonight.

Why does scum wamt to hunt active PRs?

[EFHW]

What strikes me about math's pick is that it likely has no effect right now, assuming no night zero actions, which makes a certain amount of sense for day one when you have next to no info

But it is very pro-scum. Tomorrow, anyone who took an action will know they are hated. If they get a wagon on them, they may need to reveal that they took an action to avoid being accidentally exiled. It's mitigated somewhat by this being RMM, but it will help scum in hunting the active PRs. Or by inhibiting town actions tonight.

Why does scum wamt to hunt active PRs?

Town PR's tend to be bad for scum. Is that in debate?

[MiX]

What strikes me about math's pick is that it likely has no effect right now, assuming no night zero actions, which makes a certain amount of sense for day one when you have next to no info

But it is very pro-scum. Tomorrow, anyone who took an action will know they are hated. If they get a wagon on them, they may need to reveal that they took an action to avoid being accidentally exiled. It's mitigated somewhat by this being RMM, but it will help scum in hunting the active PRs. Or by inhibiting town actions tonight.

Why does scum wamt to hunt active PRs?

Town PR's tend to be bad for scum. Is that in debate?

I'm not seeing the correlation between taking Actions at night and being a PR scum want to prioritize.

We should not exile mathdude today. We should not exile mathdude today. We should not exile mathdude today.

We should not exile mathdude today.

Vote: Pasta

I had already given Swowl like 2 day passes, I guess he gets the third one. Not only do I think this vote is townie, I also agree with it, scola's on my radar now.

I am not good enough at math to know what every potential draw is, but I would rank it 6th out of 6.  Based on that, I think it never gets chosen.

I can definitely see it be the worst for town, and I would've recommended against it knowing the other 2 options.

[A Drowned Kernel]

What strikes me about math's pick is that it likely has no effect right now, assuming no night zero actions, which makes a certain amount of sense for day one when you have next to no info

Independent of night zero actions, it would have no immediate effect since it's "the following day". So this is an interesting point - i.e. if the other options had been like Civilian jurisdiction and Presidential pardon.

I misunderstood it and thought it took effect today. Well, that changes things. I still don't want to exile math, though

[scolapasta]

What strikes me about math's pick is that it likely has no effect right now, assuming no night zero actions, which makes a certain amount of sense for day one when you have next to no info

Independent of night zero actions, it would have no immediate effect since it's "the following day". So this is an interesting point - i.e. if the other options had been like Civilian jurisdiction and Presidential pardon.

I misunderstood it and thought it took effect today. Well, that changes things. I still don't want to exile math, though

Who do you think is scummy, then?

Re: math; I am fairly ambivalent - on the one hand, a lot of the things he has done / said feel suspicious enough to me and I am wary of leaving a scum president in power; on the other hand, they add up in a way that makes me have doubt that scum!dude would play it that way. And his posts, while convenient, have an air of sincerity.

Trouble is, no one else seems especially scummy to me. Maybe that's just a D1 thing, though. I'm not sure if I've said this yet this game, but I hate D1s!

[scolapasta]

To all those who are saying we should not exile mathdude, is it just because he's president? or are there other reasons?

[WestCoastDidds]

To all those who are saying we should not exile mathdude, is it just because he's president? or are there other reasons?

One of my reasons... This is his second game. He was exiled day one of his first game and flipped town (that game is ongoing so I won’t say anything beyond that). I find that kind of welcome not awesome.

I also don’t think we are ever going to have any sense of what is scummy or not for him if we don’t actually get to see him play. I don’t think he has done anything scummy, but that is especially true if we remember that we have NO IDEA of how he behaves as scum.

I am much, mouth more wary of those who think they know his well enough to vote for him...

[Swowl]

Vote Count 1.4

ashersky (2): mathdude, Robz888
Robz888 (1): EFHW
MiX (1): ashersky
Robz888 (1): MiX
mathdude (1): scolapasta
scolapasta (2): A Drowned Kernel, Swowl
A Drowned Kernel (1): Awaclus

Not Voting (5): Jack Rudd, SpaceAnemone, WestCoastDidds, LaLight, Dylan32

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to exile. Day 1 ends March 23, 2021, 03:30:00 am.

Robz has split personality disorder in this VC

[Swowl]

What strikes me about math's pick is that it likely has no effect right now, assuming no night zero actions, which makes a certain amount of sense for day one when you have next to no info

But it is very pro-scum. Tomorrow, anyone who took an action will know they are hated. If they get a wagon on them, they may need to reveal that they took an action to avoid being accidentally exiled. It's mitigated somewhat by this being RMM, but it will help scum in hunting the active PRs. Or by inhibiting town actions tonight.

Why does scum wamt to hunt active PRs?

other than the obv here - the scenario listed by EFHW is less of a "hunt" and more of a "info gain". Which, in a set up like this, is probably more valuable for skum.
They can close their eyes and shoot this game and will likely hit a PR (or GTD to hit a PR whichever it is), so knowing who has active PRs is not valuable that much (agreeing with you)... however, knowing exactly what said Active PR can do in specificity, that would be quite valuable.

[Swowl]

@ mix - just to clarify, you are aware like 100% of what the other potential orders were? or you are aware like, Mathdude told you what choice they had?

[MiX]

@ mix - just to clarify, you are aware like 100% of what the other potential orders were? or you are aware like, Mathdude told you what choice they had?

He told me.

What strikes me about math's pick is that it likely has no effect right now, assuming no night zero actions, which makes a certain amount of sense for day one when you have next to no info

But it is very pro-scum. Tomorrow, anyone who took an action will know they are hated. If they get a wagon on them, they may need to reveal that they took an action to avoid being accidentally exiled. It's mitigated somewhat by this being RMM, but it will help scum in hunting the active PRs. Or by inhibiting town actions tonight.

Why does scum wamt to hunt active PRs?

other than the obv here - the scenario listed by EFHW is less of a "hunt" and more of a "info gain". Which, in a set up like this, is probably more valuable for skum.
They can close their eyes and shoot this game and will likely hit a PR (or GTD to hit a PR whichever it is), so knowing who has active PRs is not valuable that much (agreeing with you)... however, knowing exactly what said Active PR can do in specificity, that would be quite valuable.

Keyword being what: if you just say how many "actions" you took last night or something, scum can't really use that to their advantage.

[mathdude]

I'm here.  Very bad at playing two games at once. Currently townreading ADK and scola.

Reasons are helpful!  I have almost no read on ADK, since I don't feel they've said much of substance yet (compared to some of the more active players).  And I'm going to guess you see me as scummy too, since that's probably why you're "townreading scola" - you agree with what they are saying?  And by the opposite token, scola is currently on my watch list because I know I'm town and scola (along with ash) are on the "vote mathdude" train.  I'm not saying that makes them scummy... I admit they have some valid points (from a Town perspective), and I've been trying to address them (and I'll address more of them below).  But from my perspective, I know they're wrong to vote for me, so that puts them as either uninformed Town, or else scum who wants me gone.

And in reality, if MiX is scum, it would make sense for scum to want me gone so they can gain power of the presidency.  I'm not saying I think MiX is scum at this point... I just don't know yet.

I am not good enough at math to know what every potential draw is, but I would rank it 6th out of 6.  Based on that, I think it never gets chosen.

Go back to my not realizing that orders go right back into the deck.  As I explained earlier, I thought the description of the Executive Order Cards was that if I used it day-1, it wouldn't be back again until day 5 or 6.  At that point, knowing that I likely wouldn't have any decent reads on anyone today, wouldn't it make sense to pick the worst one?  That way on days 2, 3, and 4, the "good" cards would be available for use, when I would hopefully have better reads on people?

What strikes me about math's pick is that it likely has no effect right now, assuming no night zero actions, which makes a certain amount of sense for day one when you have next to no info

The "night zero" has been addressed by others (it affects "the following day").  But just copying to note the agreeance with what I was trying to say above - day one, I have next to no info.

--snip--
I just think scum picking scum for VP seems overly suspicious. Whereas picking a civilian would allow a scum pres to ingratiate themselves with the VP.

Picking a Civilian/Town player is obviously the goal.  I have no idea who is what at the moment (nor do I have any powers that help me with that, unfortunately!).  So it was a pure shot in the dark.  But I have explained my pick earlier, so I won't get into it again here.

What strikes me about math's pick is that it likely has no effect right now, assuming no night zero actions, which makes a certain amount of sense for day one when you have next to no info

Independent of night zero actions, it would have no immediate effect since it's "the following day". So this is an interesting point - i.e. if the other options had been like Civilian jurisdiction and Presidential pardon.

Funny thing... those actually were the other choices.  At first, I wasn't sure if it was a good idea to disclose what my choices were or not.  And going forward, if I'm still president, I likely won't disclose everything (only what I think is beneficial to Town... and maybe also to Civilians if that distinction seems to help me and/or Town).  But given what I've said so far about my understanding of this game and this role, I think it makes sense to admit these were the 3 choices... these two plus the Curfew I actually chose.

Again, go back to the fact that I wanted to keep the "good ones" to be useable on days 2, 3, and 4.  But Presidential Pardon didn't make sense for me today... I likely won't have any read good enough to "unexile" someone who got voted out, but that I think is Town today.  Hopefully in the future this may be an option.

And Civilian Jurisdiction... in hindsight, this may have been a better option, allowing me to get a better idea of who is likely Civilian, for picking a future VP.  As I chose not to use this one, I focused more on the first part of it - that a vote will go through even without a majority.  And expecting to get a majority on day-1 (based on the 1 other game I've seen), I didn't think it was necessary to use up this card (again, my misinterpretation) on day 1.  Not knowing if or how many Vig-type powers are in play (being RMM, I expect there might be), I know day votes are one of the main opportunities to get rid or scum.  So if there is a day stalling in the future, I wanted to be able to use this card in the future to force an exile (and one with civilian influence).

But knowing what I do now about that deck, I likely should have chosen Civilian Jurisdiction.

But it is very pro-scum. Tomorrow, anyone who took an action will know they are hated. If they get a wagon on them, they may need to reveal that they took an action to avoid being accidentally exiled. It's mitigated somewhat by this being RMM, but it will help scum in hunting the active PRs. Or by inhibiting town actions tonight.

I would actually go the other way.  I have no idea what to expect with this setup.  But if I had to guess about power roles, how many scum there are, etc... I would guess similar number of scum to a normal game (likely around 3), but to give everyone extra powers/roles, adding extra town powers to most/all players likely means scum needs that many more powers to keep balance.  It's quite possible scum have more night actions per person than Town has, on average.  And that would make them much more vulnerable tomorrow than Town.  Until determined otherwise, I'd guess most Town have about 1 Action they can take at night, where as some scum I'd expect to have 2 (or more?)... again, these are absolutely shots in the dark about setup, having never played RMM here before.  This is based on past experience (not verifiable), and if I were setting up such a game (I have hosted many games in the past, in person and on forums).

Imagine tomorrow where we now know night Actions can put you in danger... where each Town has 1 possible action, and each scum has 2.  Town will probably still use theirs since it's expected (given the Curfew) that there is this danger.  Scum will have to seriously consider using their powers to their maximum ability, since they will either have to hope to not be an exile target tomorrow, or they will have to claim using 2+ night actions to keep protected.

I could be completely wrong about some or all of this.  This is just where my thoughts have been at.

Why does scum wamt to hunt active PRs?

I wish I was online when this was posted.  My immediate response would have been "can't tell if trolling or if seriously asking the question".  Of course, that doesn't have as much effect now that people have responded.

But seriously, of course scum wants to hunt active Town PRs.  But don't we expect almost every Town now to be some sort of PR in RMM games?

To all those who are saying we should not exile mathdude, is it just because he's president? or are there other reasons?

One of my reasons... This is his second game. He was exiled day one of his first game and flipped town (that game is ongoing so I won’t say anything beyond that). I find that kind of welcome not awesome.

I also don’t think we are ever going to have any sense of what is scummy or not for him if we don’t actually get to see him play. I don’t think he has done anything scummy, but that is especially true if we remember that we have NO IDEA of how he behaves as scum.

I am much, mouth more wary of those who think they know his well enough to vote for him...

I said this in my other/first/only game here (don't worry, not going to talk about it at all... it's still ongoing), and I'll say it again...

I don't want to rely on "I'm new here" to stay alive.  If I'm scummy, I deserve to be voted out.  But I think what I've posted should make it clear that I have done everything I have done with the best of intentions.  I won't take it personally, and I won't leave just from being voted out.  I'll be back for more games.

But at the same time... if I am voted out, it will only strengthen my case of "this is who I am, this is how I play... this is my meta".  I'm Town here.  I'm also Civilian (sort of required by being president!)  So if I flip today... tonight... tomorrow... whenever, you will see that.

I appreciate the sentiment.  And yes, seeing me play more now will only help you in future games against me (and likely with me too).  But let's play this game.

So I have found no reason to take my vote off ash yet.  Still the most scummy to me.

I told MiX.

But now I've told you all.

He told me.

Exactly.

[mathdude]

EBWOP... that last bit of my post really messed up.  This is what it was supposed to look like:

--snip--
So I have found no reason to take my vote off ash yet.  Still the most scummy to me.

@ mix - just to clarify, you are aware like 100% of what the other potential orders were? or you are aware like, Mathdude told you what choice they had?

I told MiX.

But now I've told you all.

He told me.

Exactly.

[Swowl]

@ mix - just to clarify, you are aware like 100% of what the other potential orders were? or you are aware like, Mathdude told you what choice they had?

He told me.

What strikes me about math's pick is that it likely has no effect right now, assuming no night zero actions, which makes a certain amount of sense for day one when you have next to no info

But it is very pro-scum. Tomorrow, anyone who took an action will know they are hated. If they get a wagon on them, they may need to reveal that they took an action to avoid being accidentally exiled. It's mitigated somewhat by this being RMM, but it will help scum in hunting the active PRs. Or by inhibiting town actions tonight.

Why does scum wamt to hunt active PRs?

other than the obv here - the scenario listed by EFHW is less of a "hunt" and more of a "info gain". Which, in a set up like this, is probably more valuable for skum.
They can close their eyes and shoot this game and will likely hit a PR (or GTD to hit a PR whichever it is), so knowing who has active PRs is not valuable that much (agreeing with you)... however, knowing exactly what said Active PR can do in specificity, that would be quite valuable.

Keyword being what: if you just say how many "actions" you took last night or something, scum can't really use that to their advantage.

1. interesting
2. ok yeah that is a fair point.

[MiX]

Vote: math for making a decision that he could've consulted with me first before doing it that I disagree with...twice. If you don't want my help, then I don't want you alive. I can just be the president if the QT's not useful for you.

[MiX]

Vote: Robz, probably should've said that privately. Still.

To be fair to math I was incredibly tempted to also say that scola guessed the other 2 orders perfectly.

[Robz888]

Vote: math for making a decision that he could've consulted with me first before doing it that I disagree with...twice. If you don't want my help, then I don't want you alive. I can just be the president if the QT's not useful for you.

This sounds evil!

Vote: MiX

[SpaceAnemone]

So if there is a day stalling in the future, I wanted to be able to use this card in the future to force an exile (and one with civilian influence).

Are you aware that probably the majority the "good" characters in the show are military, rather than civilian? Of the civilian ones I can think of in the board game, other than the president herself (who's sympathetic on the whole), I can basically only think of a shady ex-con politician, a very manipulative political aide who murders someone for personal reasons, a weird lawyer, and the wife of one of the senior military officers on BSG, who was a bad influence on him and ultimately fed info to the cylons. I'd think that a lot of these people could have personal goals that aren't necessarily great for the rest of town.

Huh, I assume giving out spoilers for the show isn't something I need to try too hard to avoid, right?

[SpaceAnemone]

Vote: math for making a decision that he could've consulted with me first before doing it that I disagree with...twice. If you don't want my help, then I don't want you alive. I can just be the president if the QT's not useful for you.

Vote: MiX for taking it upon himself to dictate to the president.

Don't get me wrong, I actually agree that consulting is good, but I definitely don't like that you hint, even in jest, that exiling the president to stage a coup is a proportionate response to a newish player making mistakes his own way.

[MiX]

Vote: math for making a decision that he could've consulted with me first before doing it that I disagree with...twice. If you don't want my help, then I don't want you alive. I can just be the president if the QT's not useful for you.

Vote: MiX for taking it upon himself to dictate to the president.

Don't get me wrong, I actually agree that consulting is good, but I definitely don't like that you hint, even in jest, that exiling the president to stage a coup is a proportionate response to a newish player making mistakes his own way.

Awesome. Talk to me when you find it scummy.

[LaLight]

reading along, finding it a bit hard to participate. maybe it's a no voting thing, but i feel like i am really waiting for D2 to happen.

[WestCoastDidds]

reading along, finding it a bit hard to participate. maybe it's a no voting thing, but i feel like i am really waiting for D2 to happen.

Sadz. Although that's what Space said the board game is like, too!

[mathdude]

So if there is a day stalling in the future, I wanted to be able to use this card in the future to force an exile (and one with civilian influence).

Are you aware that probably the majority the "good" characters in the show are military, rather than civilian? Of the civilian ones I can think of in the board game, other than the president herself (who's sympathetic on the whole), I can basically only think of a shady ex-con politician, a very manipulative political aide who murders someone for personal reasons, a weird lawyer, and the wife of one of the senior military officers on BSG, who was a bad influence on him and ultimately fed info to the cylons. I'd think that a lot of these people could have personal goals that aren't necessarily great for the rest of town.

Huh, I assume giving out spoilers for the show isn't something I need to try too hard to avoid, right?

I am not aware of that. Thanks for the info. I hope to read up on more of the flavour this weekend... it was a busy week.

Also, since signups said knowledge of flavour could be helpful but not required (or something like that, if I remember correctly),I think you're safe yo give out show spoilers for people like me who don't know much.

[EFHW]

I'm not townreading scola or AKD for their opinions, but for their straightforward posts.

[EFHW]

Scum absolutely want to know where the active powers are, so they can block/redirect/nk. I don't if they have those specific powers besides the nk, but they usually have something along those lines.

Math's idea that scum would be taking more actions is interesting and makes this order not so bad if true.

[Robz888]

Vote: math for making a decision that he could've consulted with me first before doing it that I disagree with...twice. If you don't want my help, then I don't want you alive. I can just be the president if the QT's not useful for you.

Vote: MiX for taking it upon himself to dictate to the president.

Don't get me wrong, I actually agree that consulting is good, but I definitely don't like that you hint, even in jest, that exiling the president to stage a coup is a proportionate response to a newish player making mistakes his own way.

Agree

[ashersky]

I feel like we can easily just agree not to vote people to E-2 or whatever and avoid the whole claiming actions thing, no?  Going against that agreement can just be a badge of mafia-ness.

I mean, if someone has 5 night actions, good for them.  Hopefully they are limited shot, and they don't want to use them all up at once.

I think of Curfew as a "make everyone Hated, some worse than others" untargeted power of the President.  It disproportionately hurts town, I think, because mafia in theory should be able to spread the actions they take around the group to limit the actions/player ratio.

Perhaps it makes them think about using personal vs. faction powers, if such a dilemma exists.  Depends on design; I've used the few to no personal powers and just let the whole team choose from a list thing before, and so could faust.

Curfew obviously is a "built for RMM" type power, since VTs don't care about it in a normal game.  If you measure strength by "how many votes does it remove overall for exiling" then it is clearly a stronger mafia power than town power just due to sheer numbers of players.

I guess another wording for this could be "Curfew: Add the following text to every power in the game: If you use this power tonight, you will take one less vote to exile tomorrow."

We're sure that the card "expires" after today?  The wording can be applied every day, you know.

Anyway, sorry for the stream of consciousness explanation of my thinking on Curfew.  Choosing it is on average (to me) a thing that benefits mafia more than town, so choosing it awards mafia points.

[Swowl]

We're sure that the card "expires" after today?  The wording can be applied every day, you know.

that is actually an extremely good point. The wording does not specify it at all.

[Swowl]

I feel like we can easily just agree not to vote people to E-2 or whatever and avoid the whole claiming actions thing, no?  Going against that agreement can just be a badge of mafia-ness.

Should that not be E-3? or is the ash hammer turned off?

[Swowl]

Vote: math for making a decision that he could've consulted with me first before doing it that I disagree with...twice. If you don't want my help, then I don't want you alive. I can just be the president if the QT's not useful for you.

Vote: MiX for taking it upon himself to dictate to the president.

Don't get me wrong, I actually agree that consulting is good, but I definitely don't like that you hint, even in jest, that exiling the president to stage a coup is a proportionate response to a newish player making mistakes his own way.

1. Totally agree with the concept that Mix voting there is bad.
2. Mix did, I believe, insta change that vote. I get that the implications are still there, but just saying it to be clear.
3. Math does not seem like a new player to me. To this site, obviously. However, it is a game. So either you are reading them as "wet behind the ears" which I do not think is true, or just new to FDS. If it is just new to FDS, this is silly. They have proven to be a reasonable person and a good player, they are not going to leave simply based on game state choices... which is a good thing.... I hate when passes are given out to new players. They have the same amount likelihood of being skum as anyone else. As it happens, Math is not on my lynch list today, so I am not promoting a math lynch , I am just saying right now that I am giving absolutely zero credibility to anyone that gives the reason "bc Math is a new player". *Math - no offense, you seem cool and all*
4.

Don't get me wrong, I actually agree that consulting is good, but I definitely don't like that you hint, even in jest, that exiling the president to stage a coup is a proportionate response to a newish player making mistakes his own way.

--- unlike you (joke-ish)

[Swowl]

@MiX - you went from quote "lynching math today is bad" to quote "vote: math"... I know you switched to robz... but that is a big swing. How did that happen?

[faust]

Robz has split personality disorder in this VC

Thanks, it's fixed now.

[faust]

Vote Count 1.5

ashersky (1): mathdude
Robz888 (2): EFHW, MiX
MiX (3): ashersky, Robz888, SpaceAnemone
mathdude (1): scolapasta
scolapasta (2): A Drowned Kernel, Swowl
A Drowned Kernel (1): Awaclus

Not Voting (4): Jack Rudd, WestCoastDidds, LaLight, Dylan32

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to exile. Day 1 ends March 23, 2021, 03:30:00 am.

[faust]

Note that I updated the wording for Curfew as it was somewhat ambiguous. The text now reads:

Curfew
For any action a player takes the following Night, they will take one fewer vote to exile on the Day after.

This does not mean any functional difference.

[EFHW]

unvote from RVS.

[MiX]

We're sure that the card "expires" after today?  The wording can be applied every day, you know.

that is actually an extremely good point. The wording does not specify it at all.

Curfew
The following Day, all players take one vote fewer to exile for each Action they took the previous Night.

Yes it does.

@MiX - you went from quote "lynching math today is bad" to quote "vote: math"... I know you switched to robz... but that is a big swing. How did that happen?

I really want to not exile math today. However, I can see him be scum. Given I'm townreading almost everyone, a little thing such as "saying what orders were available" swung me to voting him. Then I dialed back to Robz, because Robz is scum.

Vote: math for making a decision that he could've consulted with me first before doing it that I disagree with...twice. If you don't want my help, then I don't want you alive. I can just be the president if the QT's not useful for you.

Vote: MiX for taking it upon himself to dictate to the president.

Don't get me wrong, I actually agree that consulting is good, but I definitely don't like that you hint, even in jest, that exiling the president to stage a coup is a proportionate response to a newish player making mistakes his own way.

Agree

This is so lazy I cannot see a town!Robz make this post. You agree with what? Space put down a personal thought, do you also dislike that "I hinted that exiling the president to stage a coup is a proportionate response to a newish player making mistakes his own way"? Great, but why even make this post then, this isn't even about the game.

[ashersky]

Curfew
The following Day, all players take one vote fewer to exile for each Action they took the previous Night.

Yes it does.

No, it really doesn't.  As written, it can mean "the day after a player takes an action, they take one fewer vote to exile for each action they took."  It is applicable forever, because every time you read it, it doesn't refer to fixed points in time.  If "previous night" is Night 4, then the "following day" is Day 5.  It doesn't set a limit on when it triggers, just talks about days following nights in which actions are taken.

Note that I updated the wording for Curfew as it was somewhat ambiguous. The text now reads:

Curfew
For any action a player takes the following Night, they will take one fewer vote to exile on the Day after.

This does not mean any functional difference.

The new wording places the action of the Curfew card in the night following the playing of the Curfew card.  That is, if you read it on D1, it explicitly refers to N1 (the following night).  If you read it on D3, it refers to N3, and so on.  It doesn't do it perfectly, in my opinion, only because it is not super explicit, but I believe it is safely in the realm of "just accept it" now.

(An alternate wording based on my understanding: "For any action a player takes during the Night following the playing of this card, they will take one fewer vote to exile on the Day after.")

[MiX]

Curfew
The following Day, all players take one vote fewer to exile for each Action they took the previous Night.

Yes it does.

No, it really doesn't.  As written, it can mean "the day after a player takes an action, they take one fewer vote to exile for each action they took."  It is applicable forever, because every time you read it, it doesn't refer to fixed points in time.  If "previous night" is Night 4, then the "following day" is Day 5.  It doesn't set a limit on when it triggers, just talks about days following nights in which actions are taken.

"The following day" refers to the day after the order was chosen, the same way "the following night" refers to the night after the order was chosen for the new wording. Why is one clearer than the other?

More importantly, why am I arguing semantics?

[Jack Rudd]

Because you're on the Dominion Strategy Forum, and arguing semantics is what we do here.

[MiX]

Because you're on the Dominion Strategy Forum, and arguing semantics is what we do here.

If that was the question that makes you climb out of hiding, I'll take it!

Do you have any thoughts on what's happening on the thread? Anything at all would be helpful.

[Jack Rudd]

No thoughts on what's happening on the thread, lots of background knowledge on Battlestar Galactica. Should that be at all helpful.

[MiX]

No thoughts on what's happening on the thread, lots of background knowledge on Battlestar Galactica. Should that be at all helpful.

Okay, why shouldn't we exile you today? You can be scum as much as anyone else, and you don't seem to be playing the game. So why have you around at all?

[scolapasta]

Is it just me or is this the slowest start to a game? I know I haven't been in too many with y'all but usually D1 is page after page (and for example overnight - I usually have to catch up to at least a few pages worth of posts).

this morning, there were just a few posts and they were basically all about a rewording of a rule that was pretty clear in the first place, even more clear now, and yet resulted in a meaningless discussion.

I'm finding it very hard to get any scum reads on anyone but maybe that what scum wants? Imagine a game with no posts at all and the D1 exile would basically be random.

I've been ready to move on from my mathdude* vote for a while, but don't feel I have anyone to move on to...

* while I still think some of the decisions he made were questionable, his answers seemed sincere enough (time will tell if they were sincere or convenient), and without any better evidence, I would also prefer not to brig our president nor a newer player to this forum. That and do we really want MiX as president??

So c'mon people, post!

[Awaclus]

So c'mon people, post!

Vote: scolapasta, as requested!

[scolapasta]

No thoughts on what's happening on the thread, lots of background knowledge on Battlestar Galactica. Should that be at all helpful.

Okay, why shouldn't we exile you today? You can be scum as much as anyone else, and you don't seem to be playing the game. So why have you around at all?

Surprised this was accompanied with a vote.  Here, I'll do it for you:

Vote: Jack Rudd

[Jack Rudd]

Oh, I can do that one. Vote: Scolapasta

[scolapasta]

So c'mon people, post!

Vote: scolapasta, as requested!

Oh, I can do that one. Vote: Scolapasta

Ha! Well at least I managed to get some people to post. But voting without stating at least some reason? C'mon!

[Awaclus]

So c'mon people, post!

Vote: scolapasta, as requested!

Oh, I can do that one. Vote: Scolapasta

Ha! Well at least I managed to get some people to post. But voting without stating at least some reason? C'mon!

Is there a reason why I shouldn't vote for you?

[WestCoastDidds]

I agree, Scola, on how odd today has been. Deadline is super early (like 3am) on Monday night/Tuesday morning so it’s getting on in hours.

My best guesses for scum, right now, are ADK and Jack Rudd.
In my next scummiest are MiX and Rob.

[scolapasta]

So c'mon people, post!

Vote: scolapasta, as requested!

Oh, I can do that one. Vote: Scolapasta

Ha! Well at least I managed to get some people to post. But voting without stating at least some reason? C'mon!

Is there a reason why I shouldn't vote for you?

It feels to me in this game, you should need reasons to vote for rather than reasons not to vote for. Otherwise, I could volley the question back to you: are there reasons you're not voting for MiX? or WCD? or Jack? etc. etc.

But it always frustrates me when someone answers a question with a question. (what are you avoiding?) So I'll give it my best shot - I seem to be one of the few people here actually trying to find scum. I get that my case against mathdude was weak, which is why I moved away from it. (though I'd like to point out, I was the only vote at all on mathdude, so there has never been any danger of brigging our president.

My current vote on Jack was really just a way to see if it inspired something more meaty from him. Alas, all it did was get another vote on my direction.

Maybe now at least you'll try to give me an answer?

[scolapasta]

I would be curious to see a count of who's posted and how many times... I feel like several players have posted so much less than seems to be there norm - Robz, Swowl, Dylan, space (though in space's case they usually post less frequently but more meaty)... Even MiX is doesn't quite seem his normally MiX-imp-ish self!

[Jack Rudd]

I'm just trying to learn the ropes by reading. And I've currently not got a clue what the meta is around here.

[scolapasta]

I'm just trying to learn the ropes by reading. And I've currently not got a clue what the meta is around here.

So why vote for me?

[Awaclus]

Maybe now at least you'll try to give me an answer?

I'm voting for you because I want you to be one vote closer to exile than you would be without my vote.

[Jack Rudd]

I'm just trying to learn the ropes by reading. And I've currently not got a clue what the meta is around here.

So why vote for me?

Because you voted for me. 

[mathdude]

Time for some other possible points of discussion... see if we can liven this thing up a bit.

What do you guys think of turning points?  I've heard from MiX (in our QT), but I'm looking for other opinions.  Will they be helpful?  Harmful?  Some of each?  They will obviously add variety, but I'm not sure whether I/we should be aiming for them/some or not.  Obviously, some are inevitable (Day 2 begins... at least that sounds inevitable, except for that flavour-idea someone mentioned about jumping every 33 minutes - could that repeat day 1 multiple times?).  Some of the triggers for turning points mentioned in game intro are not ideal for me personally (President sent to brig, president incapacitated at night, Military becomes president), but if some of those might help Town, then great.

For example, I have a night action that will trigger a turning point.  The action may help me or hurt me (it's sort of unclear, and flavour-wise, it looks like it could do either) but may also do nothing.  Plus, with Curfew in effect, I'm inclined not to use it.

Another point of discussion... our species, which we don't know.  Does that play into things?  Or is alignment all that will really matter?  And how about civilian/military?  I've assumed civilian is a good thing (since I am, and since getting a military president can trigger a turning point).  But now I've also heard that the majority of the "good" guys (flavour-wise) are military?  Where does this all fit in?  Is it a battle between those two factions as well, or is Scum/Town (Town-aligned/non-Town-aligned) all that matters?

I had initially seen that I was president, and thought that gave me Innocent Child status... boy am I wrong.  It means I'm civilian, and I don't even know if that's helpful.  It doesn't even confirm that I'm Town.  Flavour-wise, at least in Season 1, from what I've read, it should be obvious that I'm Town (human-aligned).

And to make this presidency even more awkward... I've got this VP-problem!  (Don't worry MiX, I don't mean that you're a problem... or are you?)  Again, I assumed this was a good thing.  At first, being able to bounce ideas off someone outside of the thread.  But I have no idea if I can trust my VP.  And they can't (or won't want to) try to gain my trust too much either, since I'm not conf-Town, so it's almost a burden, not a benefit.  So do I not say anything in QT with VP?  Do I take my bets that I picked well this first time, and pick the same person when I get to pick a new one (night 2... every even night) instead of potentially gambling and opening up conversation with another person who might not be safe?

Basically, I'm not sure where to go with things here.  Hopefully this prompts some discussions!

[SpaceAnemone]

space (though in space's case they usually post less frequently but more meaty)... Even MiX is doesn't quite seem his normally MiX-imp-ish self!

Haha, I'd love to oblige, but I haven't done the setup for my vote counter for this game yet, and it's already coming up for 1am, so no post/word counts till tomorrow, unless someone else wants to code something up :-)

Believe it or not, I've been absorbed for most of the evening playing the BSG board game with some friends on TTS. It was meant to be the second half of a game we started last weekend, but one of the players called time after ~4 hours, so we're going to have to schedule a third session :-o

I agree that it's quite stally, but I think MiX is still being quite vocal enough. Am I the only one who thinks that much more from the same sets of people will just contribute more to the stall, rather than making anything move forward, because lots of posts about very little info just drowns out anything interesting and new that people say?

PPE 2: Excited for interesting new things now...

[MiX]

I would be curious to see a count of who's posted and how many times... I feel like several players have posted so much less than seems to be there norm - Robz, Swowl, Dylan, space (though in space's case they usually post less frequently but more meaty)... Even MiX is doesn't quite seem his normally MiX-imp-ish self!

This is mcmc's job! But fine, I'll do it...

Jack Rudd - 9
SpaceAnemone - 11
WestCoastDidds - 8
MiX - 35
EFHW - 11
scolapasta - 28
LaLight - 19
Dylan32 - 6
A Drowned Kernel - 20
Swowl - 23
Robz888 - 10
ashersky - 23
Awaclus - 14
mathdude - 12

PPE: I don't think we should talk about turning points publicly and for the last time, please talk to me before revealing things in the thread I swear to god.

[MiX]

That's PPE 2, I just saw space's post and updated the post count without changing the PPE count

I did that post count by hand, so it may be off.

[WestCoastDidds]

MiX, I love seeing someone who irritates you with more frequency than I do!

[Awaclus]

Another point of discussion... our species, which we don't know.  Does that play into things?  Or is alignment all that will really matter?  And how about civilian/military?  I've assumed civilian is a good thing (since I am, and since getting a military president can trigger a turning point).  But now I've also heard that the majority of the "good" guys (flavour-wise) are military?  Where does this all fit in?  Is it a battle between those two factions as well, or is Scum/Town (Town-aligned/non-Town-aligned) all that matters?

I don't know anything about the flavor, but I think it's pretty clear that our species does play into things somehow, otherwise it would not be in the game. The same is true for civilian/military. It might affect abilities, e.g. a player could have an ability that targets a player and does different things depending on the target's species. Civilian and military affect the president at least, but there could also be abilities that care about it. It is not necessarily a good thing or a bad thing, and it probably doesn't suggest anything about your alignment. There is no battle between civilians and military, or humans and Cylons, only town and scum — we win when all threats to town have been eliminated regardless of anything else that might be going on.

[MiX]

MiX, I love seeing someone who irritates you with more frequency than I do!

Well, I know you by now, whereas math's new here, so that's not a fair comparison

Another point of discussion... our species, which we don't know.  Does that play into things?  Or is alignment all that will really matter?  And how about civilian/military?  I've assumed civilian is a good thing (since I am, and since getting a military president can trigger a turning point).  But now I've also heard that the majority of the "good" guys (flavour-wise) are military?  Where does this all fit in?  Is it a battle between those two factions as well, or is Scum/Town (Town-aligned/non-Town-aligned) all that matters?

I don't know anything about the flavor, but I think it's pretty clear that our species does play into things somehow, otherwise it would not be in the game. The same is true for civilian/military. It might affect abilities, e.g. a player could have an ability that targets a player and does different things depending on the target's species. Civilian and military affect the president at least, but there could also be abilities that care about it. It is not necessarily a good thing or a bad thing, and it probably doesn't suggest anything about your alignment. There is no battle between civilians and military, or humans and Cylons, only town and scum — we win when all threats to town have been eliminated regardless of anything else that might be going on.

Awaclus gets a day pass for today and tomorrow from me. I haven't seen this much truth distilled into one post...ever, probably.

[scolapasta]

MiX, I love seeing someone who irritates you with more frequency than I do!

Well, I know you by now, whereas math's new here, so that's not a fair comparison

Another point of discussion... our species, which we don't know.  Does that play into things?  Or is alignment all that will really matter?  And how about civilian/military?  I've assumed civilian is a good thing (since I am, and since getting a military president can trigger a turning point).  But now I've also heard that the majority of the "good" guys (flavour-wise) are military?  Where does this all fit in?  Is it a battle between those two factions as well, or is Scum/Town (Town-aligned/non-Town-aligned) all that matters?

I don't know anything about the flavor, but I think it's pretty clear that our species does play into things somehow, otherwise it would not be in the game. The same is true for civilian/military. It might affect abilities, e.g. a player could have an ability that targets a player and does different things depending on the target's species. Civilian and military affect the president at least, but there could also be abilities that care about it. It is not necessarily a good thing or a bad thing, and it probably doesn't suggest anything about your alignment. There is no battle between civilians and military, or humans and Cylons, only town and scum — we win when all threats to town have been eliminated regardless of anything else that might be going on.

Awaclus gets a day pass for today and tomorrow from me. I haven't seen this much truth distilled into one post...ever, probably.

This seems like a bad reason for a "day pass". I mean it is concise so 👍 for that, but it's just clarifying things that seemed fairly clear to those with experience in these RMM games.

(also, thanks for the post counts - they confirmed some of the things my intuition was telling me)

[MiX]

This seems like a bad reason for a "day pass". I mean it is concise so 👍 for that, but it's just clarifying things that seemed fairly clear to those with experience in these RMM games.

(also, thanks for the post counts - they confirmed some of the things my intuition was telling me)

Yeah, yeah it is concise, and I have a funny feeling we're going to need someone that is good at clarifying things this game. The post also reads slightly townie to me, but probably not for a good reason.

What does the post count tell you?

[EFHW]

mathdude: For example, I have a night action that will trigger a turning point.  The action may help me or hurt me (it's sort of unclear, and flavour-wise, it looks like it could do either) but may also do nothing

I'm curious about math saying "me" here, instead of "town".

[SpaceAnemone]

Great post, Mathdude. I really appreciate the conversation hooks!

What do you guys think of turning points?

The concept of "turning point" isn't in the series or the game, so I assume it's a mechanism faust has invented or pulled from elsewhere to make the game mechanics operate well. I suspect turning points occur at all the instances where the overarching BSG mechanic from faust interacts with the Mafia game: between turning points, we can assume that everyone's motivations are constant, but the turning points might shake things up a bit, probably in unforeseeable ways. The rules say that turning points based on game states are general knowledge, but I guess that also suggests that some players may trigger them privately, so we might not all know when some motivations might get updated.

I'm not sure whether I/we should be aiming for them/some or not.

If you feel comfortable with the status quo and have more to lose than to gain, I assume it's better to focus on your wincon above all else, since faust said that players shouldn't ever be required to play against their wincon.

For example, I have a night action that will trigger a turning point.  The action may help me or hurt me (it's sort of unclear, and flavour-wise, it looks like it could do either) but may also do nothing.

I feel like faust would probably not require story arc knowledge in order to work out whether a post-turning-point game will be a plus or a minus in a particularly game-changing way, because he did say that flavour knowledge isn't necessary to play.

Another point of discussion... our species, which we don't know.  Does that play into things?  Or is alignment all that will really matter?  And how about civilian/military?  I've assumed civilian is a good thing (since I am, and since getting a military president can trigger a turning point).  But now I've also heard that the majority of the "good" guys (flavour-wise) are military?  Where does this all fit in?  Is it a battle between those two factions as well, or is Scum/Town (Town-aligned/non-Town-aligned) all that matters?

I would say your personal goal and faction wincon are the two things that really matter, and we've been told they shouldn't conflict. The show is set on a military battle star that ends up having a fleet of civilian ships around it that it has to protect, so the military are initially heroes. The series does play with the problem of overreaching military policing citizens, but they do that mostly by introducing a second base star with an abusive but effective leader (Admiral Helena Cain), who is eventually killed off. That's not to say that there aren't times where the civilian government and military command don't agree, but ultimately the leader of the military (Admiral Bill Adama) and the President (Laura Roslin) end up together. Oh, and the super-problematic other civilian I forgot to mention before is Gaius Baltar, the incredibly sleazy self-interested scientific genius who's involved in unwittingly letting the Cylons into a back door in Caprica's defence mainframe prior to the big attack that wipes out the colonies, then cheats his way off-planet, offers up his intellectual services on Galactica, and proceeds to do lots of dubious stuff, like having an imaginary cylon in his head all the time, building up an entire cult of personality that sees him become president for a time, and also escaping to the Cylon fleet to collaborate with them when he's in hot water in the human fleet. One of my friends who used to like playing Balter in the BSG game absolutely didn't want to any more after seeing the show!

Basically, every character in BSG has built-in flaws, and nobody is entirely sympathetic. I wonder if the ones each viewer finds most sympathetic are really just a reflection of what their own biases are, except that most people agree that Starbuck (Kara Thrace) is objectively the best :-) I'm sure Ashersky or Awaclus will find a way to disagree with that statement, though!

PPE everything since my last post.

[mathdude]

PPE: I don't think we should talk about turning points publicly and for the last time, please talk to me before revealing things in the thread I swear to god.

I get what you're saying.  And I'm making my own choice.  You're seeming awfully controlling, and as you can see in my earlier post, I'm saying that you don't seem to be able to trust me and I can't trust you.  So I'm not sure how helpful our QT is for me without that trust.  If I were scum, I'd ask in a scum QT (now if there's daychat, or start of night otherwise) to get trusted opinions.  I don't have that.  So I'm asking publicly here to get some opinions.  I'm not saying "reveal everything you know" - that does sound scummy.  I'm just looking for some opinions and advice.

Between the brief mention/thought of a coup/mutiny attempt by you, these controlling posts, and the lack of anything useful you've said in QT, I don't trust you.  Period.  I've shared a bit in QT, and it's been met with "I'll tell you more on day 2".  That sounds scummy to me... not in an OMGUS way, but in a "I'll take over your spot as president when you die tonight, then I don't have to tell you anything" type of way.

So for now, I trust this public chat more than anything you say in private.  I'd vote for ash or MiX at this point.  Leaving it on ash for now.

PPE 2 or 3... I'll look at the few posts and reply again shortly

[EFHW]

I like mathdude's reasponse here. @MiX, what is your rationale for why math should be consulting with you?

[MiX]

mathdude: For example, I have a night action that will trigger a turning point.  The action may help me or hurt me (it's sort of unclear, and flavour-wise, it looks like it could do either) but may also do nothing

I'm curious about math saying "me" here, instead of "town".

It's a townslip. Don't ask me why I think that.

I like mathdude's reasponse here. @MiX, what is your rationale for why math should be consulting with you?

Why not? It's a free opportunity to know my answer before the thread's. Besides, I'm there to help him make decisions, it's why the QT exists in the first place.

[Swowl]

mathdude: For example, I have a night action that will trigger a turning point.  The action may help me or hurt me (it's sort of unclear, and flavour-wise, it looks like it could do either) but may also do nothing

I'm curious about math saying "me" here, instead of "town".

It's a townslip. Don't ask me why I think that.

Why do you think that?

[mathdude]

mathdude: For example, I have a night action that will trigger a turning point.  The action may help me or hurt me (it's sort of unclear, and flavour-wise, it looks like it could do either) but may also do nothing

I'm curious about math saying "me" here, instead of "town".

This was an intentional choice.  I had initially typed "The action may help me or Town, or it may hurt me or Town".  But as I re-read before posting, I decided there isn't really anything about it town-related.  It's specifically related to my character, and possibly has some relation to my character arc, but I don't know yet (my character arc/goal currently makes no sense to me, so I'm actually assuming a/multiple turning point(s) may be needed for it to make sense).

I would say your personal goal and faction wincon are the two things that really matter, and we've been told they shouldn't conflict. The show is set on a military battle star that ends up having a fleet of civilian ships around it that it has to protect, so the military are initially heroes. The series does play with the problem of overreaching military policing citizens, but they do that mostly by introducing a second base star with an abusive but effective leader (Admiral Helena Cain), who is eventually killed off. That's not to say that there aren't times where the civilian government and military command don't agree, but ultimately the leader of the military (Admiral Bill Adama) and the President (Laura Roslin) end up together. Oh, and the super-problematic other civilian I forgot to mention before is Gaius Baltar, the incredibly sleazy self-interested scientific genius who's involved in unwittingly letting the Cylons into a back door in Caprica's defence mainframe prior to the big attack that wipes out the colonies, then cheats his way off-planet, offers up his intellectual services on Galactica, and proceeds to do lots of dubious stuff, like having an imaginary cylon in his head all the time, building up an entire cult of personality that sees him become president for a time, and also escaping to the Cylon fleet to collaborate with them when he's in hot water in the human fleet. One of my friends who used to like playing Balter in the BSG game absolutely didn't want to any more after seeing the show!

Thanks.  This helps.  I noticed some of those flavour things when I was reading up yesterday and today, so it's good to see confirmation of some stuff.

[EFHW]

mathdude: For example, I have a night action that will trigger a turning point.  The action may help me or hurt me (it's sort of unclear, and flavour-wise, it looks like it could do either) but may also do nothing

I'm curious about math saying "me" here, instead of "town".

It's a townslip. Don't ask me why I think that.

I like mathdude's reasponse here. @MiX, what is your rationale for why math should be consulting with you?

Why not? It's a free opportunity to know my answer before the thread's. Besides, I'm there to help him make decisions, it's why the QT exists in the first place.

Your reactions seem a lot stronger than this.

[mathdude]

Why not? It's a free opportunity to know my answer before the thread's. Besides, I'm there to help him make decisions, it's why the QT exists in the first place.

It is.  And I started there.  I'm doing what's best for me, my character, my character arc, and Town.  I'll still post in QT, but I'm not sharing anything there that I also won't share here... at least at this moment.

Don't ask me why I think that.

Why do you think that?

I would have expected this out of ash.  If it wasn't about me, I would have said the same thing.  Good to see there are others out there thinking the same way!

[MiX]

This is stupid. I offer a masonry, I try to protect you, and this is how you repay me? Why do I bother.

Dayvig: math

This is way more amusing anyway.

[mathdude]

This is stupid. I offer a masonry, I try to protect you, and this is how you repay me? Why do I bother.

Dayvig: math

This is way more amusing anyway.

"offer a masonry"?  I saw no such thing.

I'm going to guess "dayvig" is actually a power or something, and this could be the end of me.  Might as well get some final thoughts out before I flip if that's where it's going.

Personal goals seem to be playing some effect here with MiX, which obviously don't align with me or Town.  And he's ready to take advantage of the Presidency, even if it outs him, for some reason.  He has said he's strongly townreading me, yet kills me?  What's up with that?

If I am gone... I'll see you all in speccy later, and/or in another game.  Maybe I'll get past day 1 one of these games!

[scolapasta]

This is stupid. I offer a masonry, I try to protect you, and this is how you repay me? Why do I bother.

Dayvig: math

This is way more amusing anyway.

"offer a masonry"?  I saw no such thing.

I'm going to guess "dayvig" is actually a power or something, and this could be the end of me.  Might as well get some final thoughts out before I flip if that's where it's going.

Personal goals seem to be playing some effect here with MiX, which obviously don't align with me or Town.  And he's ready to take advantage of the Presidency, even if it outs him, for some reason.  He has said he's strongly townreading me, yet kills me?  What's up with that?

If I am gone... I'll see you all in speccy later, and/or in another game.  Maybe I'll get past day 1 one of these games!

I wouldn't pack your bags too soon - knowing MiX he's just bluffing here to get a reaction.

[mathdude]

Well, it got a reaction.

[MiX]

Well, it got a reaction.

And by this response you'd know that I told math it was a bluff after he made that post.

Sorry everyone, I just can't help it. Besides, wouldn't it be cool if I had a gun to threaten the president with as the vice-president? Sadly I don't have one today.

[ashersky]

But it always frustrates me when someone answers a question with a question.

But what if you are on Jeopardy?

[WestCoastDidds]

I find mathdude’s response to MiX entirely in line with how others of us have responded to MiX in the past. He IS controlling and bossy, so that read is dead on. Aggravating MiX is a badge of honor. It’s super towny of math to respond this way, I think.

[Awaclus]

Has the command for an actual dayvig ever been "dayvig"?

[ashersky]

Another point of discussion... our species, which we don't know.  Does that play into things?  Or is alignment all that will really matter?  And how about civilian/military?  I've assumed civilian is a good thing (since I am, and since getting a military president can trigger a turning point).  But now I've also heard that the majority of the "good" guys (flavour-wise) are military?  Where does this all fit in?  Is it a battle between those two factions as well, or is Scum/Town (Town-aligned/non-Town-aligned) all that matters?

I don't know anything about the flavor, but I think it's pretty clear that our species does play into things somehow, otherwise it would not be in the game. The same is true for civilian/military. It might affect abilities, e.g. a player could have an ability that targets a player and does different things depending on the target's species. Civilian and military affect the president at least, but there could also be abilities that care about it. It is not necessarily a good thing or a bad thing, and it probably doesn't suggest anything about your alignment. There is no battle between civilians and military, or humans and Cylons, only town and scum — we win when all threats to town have been eliminated regardless of anything else that might be going on.

Someone hacked Awaclus' account.  This is not Awaclus typing.  (Queue he's been taken over by a Cylon joke.)

[ashersky]

Has the command for an actual dayvig ever been "dayvig"?

Not that I know of.

[ashersky]

This was an intentional choice.  I had initially typed "The action may help me or Town, or it may hurt me or Town".  But as I re-read before posting, I decided there isn't really anything about it town-related.  It's specifically related to my character, and possibly has some relation to my character arc, but I don't know yet (my character arc/goal currently makes no sense to me, so I'm actually assuming a/multiple turning point(s) may be needed for it to make sense).

Also, putting an "or" between yourself and Town would at least slightly seem to suggest you are separate entities.  Seems like a bad thing to do.

[mathdude]

This was an intentional choice.  I had initially typed "The action may help me or Town, or it may hurt me or Town".  But as I re-read before posting, I decided there isn't really anything about it town-related.  It's specifically related to my character, and possibly has some relation to my character arc, but I don't know yet (my character arc/goal currently makes no sense to me, so I'm actually assuming a/multiple turning point(s) may be needed for it to make sense).

Also, putting an "or" between yourself and Town would at least slightly seem to suggest you are separate entities.  Seems like a bad thing to do.

I can see how you read it that way.  Obviously, not the way I had written it.  Look to the rest of the post, saying "I have no idea what the night action does"... by that token, "it may help me"... "it may hurt me"... "it may help Town"... *OR* (in reality AND/OR) "it may hurt Town".  That's where that "or" comes from.

[Awaclus]

Someone hacked Awaclus' account.  This is not Awaclus typing.  (Queue he's been taken over by a Cylon joke.)

Why? It is me typing.

[ashersky]

Someone hacked Awaclus' account.  This is not Awaclus typing.  (Queue he's been taken over by a Cylon joke.)

Why? It is me typing.

As others have noted, it just didn't sound like you.  Longer than normal, full of useful information.  NAI, though.

Also, even if you have been taken over by a Cylon, it'd be "you" typing, right?

[ashersky]

Completely off-topic, but I'm working on something dealing with balanced scorecards, which is abbreviated BSC.  Keep thinking it is BSG due to this game.

[scolapasta]

But it always frustrates me when someone answers a question with a question.

But what if you are on Jeopardy?

In Jeopardy, they answer statements with a question.

[scolapasta]

I find mathdude’s response to MiX entirely in line with how others of us have responded to MiX in the past. He IS controlling and bossy, so that read is dead on. Aggravating MiX is a badge of honor. It’s super towny of math to respond this way, I think.

I agree. I also think if mathdude/MiX were scum/town, this would've played out differently. If I stick with my original discounting of scum / scum there, I'm even more inclined to think townie thought for mathdude. town / scum is still possible. (and there still is some chance that scum / scum orchestrated all this in the daychat in order to present mathdude with the opportunity to have this reaction. I doubt it?, but I don't want to ignore the possibility either)

[Awaclus]

As others have noted, it just didn't sound like you.

Nobody else has noted that.

[faust]

Vote Count 1.6

ashersky (1): mathdude
Robz888 (1): MiX
MiX (3): ashersky, Robz888, SpaceAnemone
scolapasta (4): A Drowned Kernel, Swowl, Awaclus, Jack Rudd
Jack Rudd (1): scolapasta

Not Voting (4): WestCoastDidds, LaLight, Dylan32, EFHW

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to exile. Day 1 ends March 23, 2021, 03:30:00 am. This is in about 2 days.

[A Drowned Kernel]

So I know it's a little hypocritical of me to be calling out someone else for lurking (I always get lost in these big RMM games) but Dylan has made zero posts in 5 IRL days

prod request: Dylan

People I don't want to exile: math, mix, ash, swowl, lalight (yes I know I can't). Pretty much anyone else is fair game

Also, I was thinking about the curfew, and there is a plan possible there, but I don't know how good it is. Basically if everyone just doesn't do any night actions, then if there's a nightkill tonight, we can just auto-exile scum tomorrow by putting everyone at L-1 in succession, right?

[SpaceAnemone]

Also, I was thinking about the curfew, and there is a plan possible there, but I don't know how good it is. Basically if everyone just doesn't do any night actions, then if there's a nightkill tonight, we can just auto-exile scum tomorrow by putting everyone at L-1 in succession, right?

I like that idea, though presumably scum could no-kill and then we're in perpetual d1 with respect to the amount of investigative information available, which seems like a nightmare scenario for anyone who plays like me, where vote analysis and evidence are key :-P Do we have enough "reads" players to carry the game for town there?

Aside from that, though, I think there are just too many cats to herd at this stage of the game for it to be feasible. I'm sure we can all imagine a player who'd absolutely swear that they were correct to use their power in spite of such a plan if they thought it was strong, and not care that it messes up a town-wide plan. We've also got players who're surprisingly willing to self-vote if hammers become available, playing to meta as much as to their wincons. So I  think it might be risky.

Lastly, compulsive actions are definitely a thing in regular mafia, so I see no reason not to assume we may have townies with compulsive powers here. With so little known so far about how faust's particular game mechanics are realised, I think it's probably too early to go around demanding that everyone owns up to whether they have a compulsive action ahead of N1, which we'd probably have to do in order to stop scum using that excuse as a reason not to run them to E-1.

[MiX]

As others have noted, it just didn't sound like you.

Nobody else has noted that.

I noted that is sounded exactly like Awaclus. Maybe ash thought I meant it the other way around?

Also, I was thinking about the curfew, and there is a plan possible there, but I don't know how good it is. Basically if everyone just doesn't do any night actions, then if there's a nightkill tonight, we can just auto-exile scum tomorrow by putting everyone at L-1 in succession, right?

What if we have to do night actions?

PPE: Yeah I completely agree with Space here. Well except the perpetual D1 part, it would only happen once.

[SpaceAnemone]

prod request: Dylan

I believe Dylan has a VLA in effect up until today-ish, though it's not actually posted on the VLA board.

[faust]

prod request: Dylan

Prod sent.

[WestCoastDidds]

I have a super busy tomorrow, and although I should be around in the evening, I have some fear of having the day get away from me.

vote: Jack Rudd  I had him and ADK on my scummiest list earlier and ADK has slipped a bit into the next-scummiest area as of late leaving Jack at the top of my list alone. 

[LaLight]

I am all against Jack Rudd exile. ADK is a good exile, as well as Robz, I guess

[LaLight]

if I could, I'd vote ADK rn

[scolapasta]

I am all against Jack Rudd exile. ADK is a good exile, as well as Robz, I guess

Why against Jack Rudd? I get the only argument for really is lack of content.

[LaLight]

I am all against Jack Rudd exile. ADK is a good exile, as well as Robz, I guess

Why against Jack Rudd? I get the only argument for really is lack of content.

because they're new and smart. D1 is hard for a new players, because there's not a lot to go off of and I would give them a pass to see if maybe later when we have more info, they would shine.

[Robz888]

I too am against a Jack Rudd exile. We should really not exile newbies on Day 1 without an extraordinarily compelling reason.

[SpaceAnemone]

I too am against a Jack Rudd exile. We should really not exile newbies on Day 1 without an extraordinarily compelling reason.

I agree with this a lot.

I have a super busy tomorrow, and although I should be around in the evening, I have some fear of having the day get away from me.

vote: Jack Rudd  I had him and ADK on my scummiest list earlier and ADK has slipped a bit into the next-scummiest area as of late leaving Jack at the top of my list alone.

I feel like Didds is one of the biggest community-builders we have here, so I find it really odd that she apparently doesn't share the sentiment.

[WestCoastDidds]

Oh! I have played a fair amount of codenames with Jack so I wasn't thinking of him as new, but I see now that is an oversight. I met him about the same time I met scolapasta, so I think of having played with both them for about the same amount of time so I wasn't thinking of him as new, just as deliberately lurking. I definitely do not want to alienate anyone from our community!

I will move to my next scummiest person as my just in case I don't get back to this tomorrow evening placeholder.
vote: ADK

[WestCoastDidds]

if I could, I'd vote ADK rn

I got you, boo!

[EFHW]

if I could, I'd vote ADK rn

I got you, boo!

I don't get it. There's nothing in the last 50 posts to indicate why people would be anti-ADK.

[mathdude]

I haven't played with ADK or scolapasta before, so I'm not sure what to think of them yet.  But if it will possibly generate more discussion, let's make this a 3-way race for now.  Obviously we need to get to a 2-way race soon, and then actually pick 1 to exile.  But let's see what happens when we start building wagons on 3.

Vote: ADK

So I believe that's multiple votes now on ADK, MiX, and scolapasta.  Anyone want to defend any of them?  Or jump on one of those wagons?

PPE... like this!

if I could, I'd vote ADK rn

I got you, boo!

I don't get it. There's nothing in the last 50 posts to indicate why people would be anti-ADK.

[EFHW]

I agree, Scola, on how odd today has been. Deadline is super early (like 3am) on Monday night/Tuesday morning so it’s getting on in hours.

My best guesses for scum, right now, are ADK and Jack Rudd.
In my next scummiest are MiX and Rob.

Going back another 50, there is this from Didds, her only game related post on that page.

I'm doing a page at a time because I'm on my phone, but it's not a bad way get a feel for things.

[EFHW]

Vote: ADK

Here's another unexplained vote. I'm probably not going to get an answer,  but Awaclus, could you share your reasoning with us?

[EFHW]

It's more that I think it's a bad idea to reveal information about LL's role for no reason in case that information is of benefit to scum

I think might have bern the opinion that offended LL, at least.

[A Drowned Kernel]

if I could, I'd vote ADK rn

I got you, boo!

I don't get it. There's nothing in the last 50 posts to indicate why people would be anti-ADK.

I think it's because I'm generally an easy exile

[EFHW]

I think we should do a lurker exile. Based on 288/289, with Dylan vla, that points to
vote: Didds. Fits with the arbitrary ADK vote, as well.

[A Drowned Kernel]

I think we should do a lurker exile. Based on 288/289, with Dylan vla, that points to
vote: Didds. Fits with the arbitrary ADK vote, as well.

Not to play servings devil's advocate for my own exile but why am I not a lurker exile?

[MiX]

I haven't played with ADK or scolapasta before, so I'm not sure what to think of them yet.  But if it will possibly generate more discussion, let's make this a 3-way race for now.  Obviously we need to get to a 2-way race soon, and then actually pick 1 to exile.  But let's see what happens when we start building wagons on 3.

Vote: ADK

So I believe that's multiple votes now on ADK, MiX, and scolapasta.  Anyone want to defend any of them?  Or jump on one of those wagons?

PPE... like this!

if I could, I'd vote ADK rn

I got you, boo!

I don't get it. There's nothing in the last 50 posts to indicate why people would be anti-ADK.

Yes I would like to defend all of them, I think ADK and scola are very townie, and I'm a bad exile (I'm also town).

if I could, I'd vote ADK rn

I got you, boo!

I don't get it. There's nothing in the last 50 posts to indicate why people would be anti-ADK.

I think it's because I'm generally an easy exile

Only when you're town.

I think we should do a lurker exile. Based on 288/289, with Dylan vla, that points to
vote: Didds. Fits with the arbitrary ADK vote, as well.

Eh, that sounds unfun. I can see Didds be scum here, but from experience I would not try to read Didds day 1. I guess giving Didds a daypass every game isn't ideal, but...I still think it's good

[WestCoastDidds]

ADK doesn't normally lay so low. One of the hallmarks of ADK play is early RVS and then pressure for everyone else to vote, followed by a bunch of questions.  None of that has happened in this game. Additionally, I was late to realizing this game has started. When I finished my initial (late) read, ADK was my top scumread because they were in favor of keeping LLs role information secret, whereas Space was in favor of sharing flavor information that about half the people had and half did not.  I agreed with Space on that so found ADK a bit scummy and then they have haven't done much to change that.

That said, I have a TERRIBLE record of misexiling ADK so I am not taking my sense too seriously because of how often that sense has led me astray. But that is where I am right now.

[MiX]

ADK doesn't normally lay so low. One of the hallmarks of ADK play is early RVS and then pressure for everyone else to vote, followed by a bunch of questions.  None of that has happened in this game. Additionally, I was late to realizing this game has started. When I finished my initial (late) read, ADK was my top scumread because they were in favor of keeping LLs role information secret, whereas Space was in favor of sharing flavor information that about half the people had and half did not.  I agreed with Space on that so found ADK a bit scummy and then they have haven't done much to change that.

That said, I have a TERRIBLE record of misexiling ADK so I am not taking my sense too seriously because of how often that sense has led me astray. But that is where I am right now.

As someone that typically townreads everyone that agrees with them, why do you think ADK being in favor of keeping LL's role a secret is scummy? Would town!ADK not do that?

[scolapasta]

Also, I was thinking about the curfew, and there is a plan possible there, but I don't know how good it is. Basically if everyone just doesn't do any night actions, then if there's a nightkill tonight, we can just auto-exile scum tomorrow by putting everyone at L-1 in succession, right?

I like that idea, though presumably scum could no-kill and then we're in perpetual d1 with respect to the amount of investigative information available, which seems like a nightmare scenario for anyone who plays like me, where vote analysis and evidence are key :-P Do we have enough "reads" players to carry the game for town there?

Aside from that, though, I think there are just too many cats to herd at this stage of the game for it to be feasible. I'm sure we can all imagine a player who'd absolutely swear that they were correct to use their power in spite of such a plan if they thought it was strong, and not care that it messes up a town-wide plan. We've also got players who're surprisingly willing to self-vote if hammers become available, playing to meta as much as to their wincons. So I  think it might be risky.

Lastly, compulsive actions are definitely a thing in regular mafia, so I see no reason not to assume we may have townies with compulsive powers here. With so little known so far about how faust's particular game mechanics are realised, I think it's probably too early to go around demanding that everyone owns up to whether they have a compulsive action ahead of N1, which we'd probably have to do in order to stop scum using that excuse as a reason not to run them to E-1.

At first when I read this plan, I liked it, but you (and others) have brought up good arguements against.

Though I don't fully get the perpetual d1 aspect, as we *would* have the results of the first day brigging and that seems like it could be valuable.

[scolapasta]

I haven't played with ADK or scolapasta before, so I'm not sure what to think of them yet.  But if it will possibly generate more discussion, let's make this a 3-way race for now.  Obviously we need to get to a 2-way race soon, and then actually pick 1 to exile.  But let's see what happens when we start building wagons on 3.

Vote: ADK

So I believe that's multiple votes now on ADK, MiX, and scolapasta.  Anyone want to defend any of them?  Or jump on one of those wagons?

PPE... like this!

if I could, I'd vote ADK rn

I got you, boo!

I don't get it. There's nothing in the last 50 posts to indicate why people would be anti-ADK.

Yes I would like to defend all of them, I think ADK and scola are very townie, and I'm a bad exile (I'm also town).

if I could, I'd vote ADK rn

I got you, boo!

I don't get it. There's nothing in the last 50 posts to indicate why people would be anti-ADK.

I think it's because I'm generally an easy exile

Only when you're town.

I think we should do a lurker exile. Based on 288/289, with Dylan vla, that points to
vote: Didds. Fits with the arbitrary ADK vote, as well.

Eh, that sounds unfun. I can see Didds be scum here, but from experience I would not try to read Didds day 1. I guess giving Didds a daypass every game isn't ideal, but...I still think it's good

Then who?

[MiX]

Robz.

[scolapasta]

ADK doesn't normally lay so low. One of the hallmarks of ADK play is early RVS and then pressure for everyone else to vote, followed by a bunch of questions.  None of that has happened in this game. Additionally, I was late to realizing this game has started. When I finished my initial (late) read, ADK was my top scumread because they were in favor of keeping LLs role information secret, whereas Space was in favor of sharing flavor information that about half the people had and half did not.  I agreed with Space on that so found ADK a bit scummy and then they have haven't done much to change that.

That said, I have a TERRIBLE record of misexiling ADK so I am not taking my sense too seriously because of how often that sense has led me astray. But that is where I am right now.

As someone that typically townreads everyone that agrees with them, why do you think ADK being in favor of keeping LL's role a secret is scummy? Would town!ADK not do that?

I can answer this one - I meant to post back them, but never got it it - become scum only needs 1 person to know the background and can share in their QT. Town needs everyone to know it. SO if scum does know, hiding it is pro scum, while it's only possibly pro town if no scum knows.

[scolapasta]

Robz.

OK. I'll have to go back and reread but my general inclination was to have him on my suspicious list.

For now:

Unvote

My goal in voting Jack was really just to get him to stop just lurking, but it didn't have that effect. I agree with the sentimnt to grant hime a d1 pass unless there's something especially egregious.

[MiX]

ADK doesn't normally lay so low. One of the hallmarks of ADK play is early RVS and then pressure for everyone else to vote, followed by a bunch of questions.  None of that has happened in this game. Additionally, I was late to realizing this game has started. When I finished my initial (late) read, ADK was my top scumread because they were in favor of keeping LLs role information secret, whereas Space was in favor of sharing flavor information that about half the people had and half did not.  I agreed with Space on that so found ADK a bit scummy and then they have haven't done much to change that.

That said, I have a TERRIBLE record of misexiling ADK so I am not taking my sense too seriously because of how often that sense has led me astray. But that is where I am right now.

As someone that typically townreads everyone that agrees with them, why do you think ADK being in favor of keeping LL's role a secret is scummy? Would town!ADK not do that?

I can answer this one - I meant to post back them, but never got it it - become scum only needs 1 person to know the background and can share in their QT. Town needs everyone to know it. SO if scum does know, hiding it is pro scum, while it's only possibly pro town if no scum knows.

Okay, I understand why it's anti-town, but why is it scummy?

[WestCoastDidds]

ADK doesn't normally lay so low. One of the hallmarks of ADK play is early RVS and then pressure for everyone else to vote, followed by a bunch of questions.  None of that has happened in this game. Additionally, I was late to realizing this game has started. When I finished my initial (late) read, ADK was my top scumread because they were in favor of keeping LLs role information secret, whereas Space was in favor of sharing flavor information that about half the people had and half did not.  I agreed with Space on that so found ADK a bit scummy and then they have haven't done much to change that.

That said, I have a TERRIBLE record of misexiling ADK so I am not taking my sense too seriously because of how often that sense has led me astray. But that is where I am right now.

As someone that typically townreads everyone that agrees with them, why do you think ADK being in favor of keeping LL's role a secret is scummy? Would town!ADK not do that?

I think ADK generally likes to have as little revealed as possible.  This was a unique scenario because it was separating out flavor knowledge, not game knowledge. I believe ADK when they said that they did not intend to taunt anyone, though.

[scolapasta]

ADK doesn't normally lay so low. One of the hallmarks of ADK play is early RVS and then pressure for everyone else to vote, followed by a bunch of questions.  None of that has happened in this game. Additionally, I was late to realizing this game has started. When I finished my initial (late) read, ADK was my top scumread because they were in favor of keeping LLs role information secret, whereas Space was in favor of sharing flavor information that about half the people had and half did not.  I agreed with Space on that so found ADK a bit scummy and then they have haven't done much to change that.

That said, I have a TERRIBLE record of misexiling ADK so I am not taking my sense too seriously because of how often that sense has led me astray. But that is where I am right now.

As someone that typically townreads everyone that agrees with them, why do you think ADK being in favor of keeping LL's role a secret is scummy? Would town!ADK not do that?

I can answer this one - I meant to post back them, but never got it it - become scum only needs 1 person to know the background and can share in their QT. Town needs everyone to know it. SO if scum does know, hiding it is pro scum, while it's only possibly pro town if no scum knows.

Okay, I understand why it's anti-town, but why is it scummy?

Good point. Maybe I just haven't played enough games, I equate anti-town with scummy. I guess there can be third parties, but I'm ok with brigging them as well, if it avoids brigging a fellow townie.

[WestCoastDidds]

I think we should do a lurker exile. Based on 288/289, with Dylan vla, that points to
vote: Didds. Fits with the arbitrary ADK vote, as well.

Huh... at present, I have:
Jack Rudd - 9
SpaceAnemone - 15
WestCoastDidds - 15
MiX - 47
EFHW - 19
scolapasta - 36
LaLight - 22
Dylan32 - 6
A Drowned Kernel - 23
Swowl - 24
Robz888 - 11
ashersky - 29
Awaclus - 18
mathdude - 19

But this could be mistaken. I appreciate when Space does the post and word counts, because one line posts are much different than longer ones.

[WestCoastDidds]

Okay, I understand why it's anti-town, but why is it scummy?

Good point. Maybe I just haven't played enough games, I equate anti-town with scummy. I guess there can be third parties, but I'm ok with brigging them as well, if it avoids brigging a fellow townie.

I think for all intents and purposes, especially early on, they are the same thing.

[Jack Rudd]

Fair enough, scola.

Unvote

[Awaclus]

Good point. Maybe I just haven't played enough games, I equate anti-town with scummy. I guess there can be third parties, but I'm ok with brigging them as well, if it avoids brigging a fellow townie.

"Scum" generally includes third parties. MiX's point is that townies can act in an anti-town way (which is technically true, but not really something that needs to be taken into consideration a lot).

[A Drowned Kernel]

Good point. Maybe I just haven't played enough games, I equate anti-town with scummy. I guess there can be third parties, but I'm ok with brigging them as well, if it avoids brigging a fellow townie.

"Scum" generally includes third parties. MiX's point is that townies can act in an anti-town way (which is technically true, but not really something that needs to be taken into consideration a lot).

I would say it's something that needs to be taken into consideration all the time but I think that's a fundamental difference in our playstyles

[MiX]

Good point. Maybe I just haven't played enough games, I equate anti-town with scummy. I guess there can be third parties, but I'm ok with brigging them as well, if it avoids brigging a fellow townie.

"Scum" generally includes third parties. MiX's point is that townies can act in an anti-town way (which is technically true, but not really something that needs to be taken into consideration a lot).

I would say it's something that needs to be taken into consideration all the time but I think that's a fundamental difference in our playstyles

This, completely, 100% percent.

So I guess people want to see a Robz case eventually, right? When's deadline?

[mathdude]

Well, this party didn't gain too much traction, and the vote definitely hasn't prompted anything.

I haven't played with ADK or scolapasta before, so I'm not sure what to think of them yet.  But if it will possibly generate more discussion, let's make this a 3-way race for now.  Obviously we need to get to a 2-way race soon, and then actually pick 1 to exile.  But let's see what happens when we start building wagons on 3.

Vote: ADK

So I believe that's multiple votes now on ADK, MiX, and scolapasta.  Anyone want to defend any of them?  Or jump on one of those wagons?

PPE... like this!

if I could, I'd vote ADK rn

I got you, boo!

I don't get it. There's nothing in the last 50 posts to indicate why people would be anti-ADK.

So now, in light of this:

I think we should do a lurker exile. Based on 288/289, with Dylan vla, that points to
vote: Didds. Fits with the arbitrary ADK vote, as well.

Huh... at present, I have:
Jack Rudd - 9
SpaceAnemone - 15
WestCoastDidds - 15
MiX - 47
EFHW - 19
scolapasta - 36
LaLight - 22
Dylan32 - 6
A Drowned Kernel - 23
Swowl - 24
Robz888 - 11
ashersky - 29
Awaclus - 18
mathdude - 19

But this could be mistaken. I appreciate when Space does the post and word counts, because one line posts are much different than longer ones.

now I feel a better place to generate something useful is...
vote: Robz

[SpaceAnemone]

ADK doesn't normally lay so low. One of the hallmarks of ADK play is early RVS and then pressure for everyone else to vote, followed by a bunch of questions.  None of that has happened in this game. Additionally, I was late to realizing this game has started. When I finished my initial (late) read, ADK was my top scumread because they were in favor of keeping LLs role information secret, whereas Space was in favor of sharing flavor information that about half the people had and half did not.  I agreed with Space on that so found ADK a bit scummy and then they have haven't done much to change that.

That said, I have a TERRIBLE record of misexiling ADK so I am not taking my sense too seriously because of how often that sense has led me astray. But that is where I am right now.

As someone that typically townreads everyone that agrees with them, why do you think ADK being in favor of keeping LL's role a secret is scummy? Would town!ADK not do that?

I can answer this one - I meant to post back them, but never got it it - become scum only needs 1 person to know the background and can share in their QT. Town needs everyone to know it. SO if scum does know, hiding it is pro scum, while it's only possibly pro town if no scum knows.

Hah! That explanation took me some effort to get my head around, because I was looking at things opposite way round, but yes, I agree with you! Hiding the identity of LL's role can't possibly be pro-town unless it's assumed that none of the scumteam already knows it and shares with others. I would see it as being "possibly useful" to all of town, and only having a penalty in the less-likely situation where none of the scums already knows and can therefore share with their team.  If we assume that half the people know flavour, then for a 2-person mafia team not to have one of those people, it's a 1/4 chance, or for a 3-person mafia team it's down to 1/8.

Anyway, ADK's disapproval of me revealing info didn't seem to be accompanied by a scum-read particularly, though they were still saying they thought it was anti-town. I'm not sure where that leaves me reading them. Didd's case had more to it, but I'm not sure I'm really feeling it. ADK's play has actually been really variable across the game-day: they started out quite nit-picky and rules-heavy, but later made an error on how the Curfew card works and went all lurky. Is that sort behaviour pattern something people would expect scum to follow sometimes? I'm not really sure.

[scolapasta]

I'm surprised to see Swowl at > 20 posts on those lists. I can't recall a particular conversation he's been an active part of.

I feel I'd put him in the same bucket I have Robz - usually posts a lot on other games, but mostly absent this game. Dylan too, but he's got the VLA (will he back back before deadline??)

[scolapasta]

So I guess people want to see a Robz case eventually, right? When's deadline?

Tuesday 3:30a Forum Time, so 30 hours 30 minutes from now. (not quite the "33" from the show, but similar enough!)

(And yes I waited until 9pm to be able to post this. )

[EFHW]

vote: Robz

[Swowl]

I'm surprised to see Swowl at > 20 posts on those lists. I can't recall a particular conversation he's been an active part of.

I feel I'd put him in the same bucket I have Robz - usually posts a lot on other games, but mostly absent this game. Dylan too, but he's got the VLA (will he back back before deadline??)

And I don't have any one liners... or not many at least. Dunno why you think I have been not around, I feel like I have been playing my A game thus far.

I am however, catching up on like 3.5 pages of posts now... be back shortly.

[mathdude]

vote: Robz

Care to add anything to that?  Or is that your contribution?

[A Drowned Kernel]

I'm actually starting to feel vote: EFHW

White-knighting me was a little odd and jumping on the robz wagon feels opportunistic

[Awaclus]

This seems interesting. Vote: EFHW

[EFHW]

vote: Robz

Care to add anything to that?  Or is that your contribution?

New data shows he is the biggest lurker.

[EFHW]

I'm actually starting to feel vote: EFHW

White-knighting me was a little odd and jumping on the robz wagon feels opportunistic

I wasn't white knighting you, I was addressing an apparent movement to generate momentum for your wagon in the absence of any case.

[EFHW]

This seems interesting. Vote: EFHW

I would still like to hear your response to my question about your ADK vote.

[MiX]

This seems interesting. Vote: EFHW

Is Robz your scum buddy?

[Swowl]

Also, I was thinking about the curfew, and there is a plan possible there, but I don't know how good it is. Basically if everyone just doesn't do any night actions, then if there's a nightkill tonight, we can just auto-exile scum tomorrow by putting everyone at L-1 in succession, right?

Pretty sure this was covered - but, to be sure. While it is a good idea in theory... it is never working Night 1. It may not even be able to work later down the road... but it is a cool idea. Should be dog eared for potential use.

[Swowl]

if I could, I'd vote ADK rn

I am going to politely insist on your reasoning behind that. You can tell me later though if you want.

[Swowl]

Robz.

why? you don't adhere to the LAL concept generally.

[MiX]

Robz.

why? you don't adhere to the LAL concept generally.

I've been saying exile Robz for most of this day. He seems to just be agreeing to things and not actually doing town!Robz things. A more consistent reason will have to be given when I'm not falling asleep.

[Dylan32]

Hey everybody. Sorry for my extended absence to start this game. I'm back from a week of travel, mostly rested and ready to go. I'm going to start catching up now. I may not do my normal react to everything type of post I've done in other games since 15 pages is a lot, but I'm here and should be active the rest of the way out! Let the reading begin...

[Swowl]

vote: Robz

Care to add anything to that?  Or is that your contribution?

New data shows he is the biggest lurker.

It is Robz on Day 1. It would be skummy if he was posting a lot. The fact they are lurking should tell you absolutely nothing... if anything it should tell you he is acting towny.

Anyone have a reason for voting Robz that isn't "lurking"?
PPE - Mix response noted. will wait for that rise and shine reasoning.

[Awaclus]

This seems interesting. Vote: EFHW

Is Robz your scum buddy?

Good question! No.

This seems interesting. Vote: EFHW

I would still like to hear your response to my question about your ADK vote.

I know.

[Robz888]

Yeah I realize I’m not providing much. Day 1 is bad. We should exile soon and get it over with.

[LaLight]

if I could, I'd vote ADK rn

I am going to politely insist on your reasoning behind that. You can tell me later though if you want.

sorry, but I am not really into explaining as of now. also Didds is high on my scum!radar now and this I can explain, but probably half a day later, swamped now

[Dylan32]

Ok, I got distracted but got halfway through the game trying to go slow and keep who did what straight in my head, but it's bedtime now (aka a couple hours ago).  As of now (through roughly page 10) I don't want to exile math, scola, or ash, and to a lesser extent MiX.

[faust]

Vote Count 1.7

Robz888 (3): MiX, mathdude, EFHW
MiX (3): ashersky, Robz888, SpaceAnemone
scolapasta (1): Swowl
A Drowned Kernel (1): WestCoastDidds
EFHW (2): A Drowned Kernel, Awaclus

Not Voting (4): LaLight, Dylan32, scolapasta, Jack Rudd

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to exile. Day 1 ends March 23, 2021, 03:30:00 am. This is in a bit over a day.

[ashersky]

Robz not caring about D1 is neutral to town Robz.  Move on.

[ashersky]

I think of the remaining possibilities, MiX is still my top choice.

If I had to switch, I could also vote MiX.  In a pinch, you could also convince me that MiX would be an okay D1 exile.

[ashersky]

The "no one take actions and we go for E-1 for everyone if there's an NK" plan is towny, even if it wouldn't work for some reason.  Town points to that player (ADK?).

Also, I'd definitely do it if it was agreed upon.

[MiX]

Robz not caring about D1 is neutral to town Robz.  Move on.

Okay, yes. You are right. You are also town.

Unvote

The "no one take actions and we go for E-1 for everyone if there's an NK" plan is towny, even if it wouldn't work for some reason.  Town points to that player (ADK?).

Also, I'd definitely do it if it was agreed upon.

It was ADK.

[MiX]

Rereading everyone individually. ISO, was it? I think that's what reading people individually was called.

Vote: Space for being the first one I reread by being the first one in the player list (I'm not exiling Jack today), so it's mostly a placeholder.

[MiX]

Jack is not being exiled today. Just no. Null otherwise.

Space is somewhat scummy, although I would be lying if I said I remember why I voted them earlier. Not a big scumread, it's probably just me disagreeing with them.

Didds is really towny.

EFHW is not ringing scum bells all over me, so she's towny. She's also towny independently, but I don't trust my town bells on EFHW. The vote on Robz specifically matches perfectly with what I would assume town!EFHW is thinking, reading her posts.

scola is less towny than they were before, but I don't really want to exile them.

LL is towny, but I didn't reread them today because it doesn't matter at all.

There's obviously no content from Dylan, but the few there is puts him at sliiiiiiightly townier than not. I would still exile him.

ADK is towny, of course, nothing really changed there. He's not 100% town because ADK is a very good player, but otherwise I don't really see him be scum this game.

Swowl towl, I don't need to read every post to know that Swowl cannot be scum this game.

Robz has unfortunately done Robz things, I disagree with basically everything but that's normal, it doesn't make him scummy.

ash is towny, I don't really want to reread them, I'll defend ash unconditionally today.

Awaclus...is not towny. He's scummy. This is where I want my vote to be. I would also want Awaclus alive, but the best scum is a dead scum.

math is town due to QT things and also he revealed he was town when I did that gambit. And also he shouldn't be exiled today regardless. And you wouldn't want me as the president, right? That just sounds wrong on all levels.

Vote: Awaclus is where I'm at. Reads are:

Town: math, ash, Swowl

Towny: Didds, scola, ADK, LL, EFHW

Null: Jack, Dylan, Robz

Scummy: Space

Scum: Awaclus

[MiX]

NAI stuff: that post looks really hard to read. How should I organize it to make it easier to read in the future? Should I make a separate post for the reads list and the vote? Should each person have more detail on my read on them but spread them out over multiple posts? I'm not sure...

[WestCoastDidds]

The "no one take actions and we go for E-1 for everyone if there's an NK" plan is towny, even if it wouldn't work for some reason.  Town points to that player (ADK?).

Also, I'd definitely do it if it was agreed upon.

It was ADK.

This is what moved ADK down from my most scummy category and led me to vote for Jack yesterday.

Oh, I hate when this happens.  My most scummy tier is Jack, ADK, and Robz but I am not certain enough about any of them to risk losing them this early. The next most scummy tier is mostly just folks who I haven't interacted with this game so not so much scummy as null, but not towny, and MiX who I am wary of but I don't find him out of the ordinary.  The remainder of that tier is swowl, efhw, dylan, lalight, and ash.  I have mathdude, scolapasta, awaclus, and space in my towniest tier.

The Robz and MiX wagons seem to me to be based on nothing. We've agreed that Jack is a bad idea.  ADK isn't getting any traction, and I fully admit my inability to read them correctly.

Swowl and MiX are each voting for someone in my towniest tier, so there is that. The remainder of my next-scummiest tier (efhw, ash, and dylan) are pretty much a toss up. 

vote: Dylan because there isn't anything there to even evaluate

PPE: Mix's list

[MiX]

I can do

Vote: Dylan if you want, I'm not against it.

[EFHW]

This seems interesting. Vote: EFHW

Is Robz your scum buddy?

No! Why do you ask?

[Awaclus]

This seems interesting. Vote: EFHW

Is Robz your scum buddy?

No! Why do you ask?

How do you know that Robz is not my scum buddy?

[EFHW]

vote: Robz

Care to add anything to that?  Or is that your contribution?

New data shows he is the biggest lurker.

It is Robz on Day 1. It would be skummy if he was posting a lot. The fact they are lurking should tell you absolutely nothing... if anything it should tell you he is acting towny.

Anyone have a reason for voting Robz that isn't "lurking"?
PPE - Mix response noted. will wait for that rise and shine reasoning.

This is a problematic approach that has also come up recently about Galzria. The incentivews are all wrong. Everyone finds D1 hard. Why should some people get to consistently sit out while the others do the work?

[EFHW]

This seems interesting. Vote: EFHW

Is Robz your scum buddy?

No! Why do you ask?

How do you know that Robz is not my scum buddy?

LOL. I was so focused on the vote: Me, that I assumed the question was for me!

[MiX]

vote: Robz

Care to add anything to that?  Or is that your contribution?

New data shows he is the biggest lurker.

It is Robz on Day 1. It would be skummy if he was posting a lot. The fact they are lurking should tell you absolutely nothing... if anything it should tell you he is acting towny.

Anyone have a reason for voting Robz that isn't "lurking"?
PPE - Mix response noted. will wait for that rise and shine reasoning.

This is a problematic approach that has also come up recently about Galzria. The incentivews are all wrong. Everyone finds D1 hard. Why should some people get to consistently sit out while the others do the work?

D1 is easy, you just need other people to play along. There's like no pressure and it's the only day where you can be completely off the wall and only say the wrong things for the wrong reasons and out like every single town PR to scum and you're still fine, because hey it's D1 who cares. And sometimes you just make the game so much easier for all the future days. It's the pure reads day, where mechanics be damned, there's no VCA, no flips, just you and everyone else that is playing the game, saying why people are town and scum and voting accordingly. Think about it: why is it fine to kill town D1? It's because the game is town favoured D1, and it's up to town to take advantage of that.

This seems interesting. Vote: EFHW

Is Robz your scum buddy?

No! Why do you ask?

How do you know that Robz is not my scum buddy?

LOL. I was so focused on the vote: Me, that I assumed the question was for me!

This is scummy

Awaclus' response is also scummy...but that might be tunneling.

[ashersky]

vote: Robz

Care to add anything to that?  Or is that your contribution?

New data shows he is the biggest lurker.

It is Robz on Day 1. It would be skummy if he was posting a lot. The fact they are lurking should tell you absolutely nothing... if anything it should tell you he is acting towny.

Anyone have a reason for voting Robz that isn't "lurking"?
PPE - Mix response noted. will wait for that rise and shine reasoning.

This is a problematic approach that has also come up recently about Galzria. The incentivews are all wrong. Everyone finds D1 hard. Why should some people get to consistently sit out while the others do the work?

They shouldn't.  But they do.  For some it is because they can be game changers in the mid- or late-game.  For others, maybe it's just a nod to veteran status.

[ashersky]

Also, how about a full-on mass claim?

[MiX]

Also, how about a full-on mass claim?

Too late for that, regardless of what I personally think about it.

[ashersky]

Also, how about a full-on mass claim?

Too late for that, regardless of what I personally think about it.

Good point.  Could be fun for Day 2!

[Awaclus]

Also, how about a full-on mass claim?

It's anti-town to ask this because people's reactions to it can be indicative of what roles they have.

[MiX]

Also, how about a full-on mass claim?

It's anti-town to ask this because people's reactions to it can be indicative of what roles they have.

By that logic, it's anti-town to react to it.

[Awaclus]

Also, how about a full-on mass claim?

It's anti-town to ask this because people's reactions to it can be indicative of what roles they have.

By that logic, it's anti-town to react to it.

It is, if your response is indicative of what roles you have.

[scolapasta]

I'm actually surprised it took this long for someone to suggest it. One of the others things that has made this D1 weird.

Though I also think it's as weird to suggest it now this late in the day.

[scolapasta]

Lalight are you willing to answer this:

Does your info tell you if / when you'll be able to vote? Or is just defined indefinitely?

[MiX]

Lalight are you willing to answer this:

Does your info tell you if / when you'll be able to vote? Or is just defined indefinitely?

Why do you think it helps town for LL to answer this?

I'm actually surprised it took this long for someone to suggest it. One of the others things that has made this D1 weird.

Though I also think it's as weird to suggest it now this late in the day.

Do we have to go through the same topics every game?

Why are we back to setup discussion?

[LaLight]

Lalight are you willing to answer this:

Does your info tell you if / when you'll be able to vote? Or is just defined indefinitely?

it does

[LaLight]

Lalight are you willing to answer this:

Does your info tell you if / when you'll be able to vote? Or is just defined indefinitely?

Why do you think it helps town for LL to answer this?

I'm actually surprised it took this long for someone to suggest it. One of the others things that has made this D1 weird.

Though I also think it's as weird to suggest it now this late in the day.

Do we have to go through the same topics every game?

Why are we back to setup discussion?

quoting the first part:

why not? i won't tell more than yes/no

[MiX]

Lalight are you willing to answer this:

Does your info tell you if / when you'll be able to vote? Or is just defined indefinitely?

Why do you think it helps town for LL to answer this?

why not? i won't tell more than yes/no

Because scola's answer to that question is hopefully better for town than yours.

[scolapasta]

Lalight are you willing to answer this:

Does your info tell you if / when you'll be able to vote? Or is just defined indefinitely?

Why do you think it helps town for LL to answer this?

why not? i won't tell more than yes/no

Because scola's answer to that question is hopefully better for town than yours.

Because the more I / we can figure out, the more I can share with the rest of town.

Basically, as one who knows the flavor, I'm hoping to understand turning points more. My theory was that if Lalight did not know, then the start of D2 turning point might be as simple as  "Helo has joined the Galactica" as it would know mean he can vote (and be voted on). But since it's written into his PR, now I'm not so sure.

[faust]

THREAD LOCKED!

Please check your QTs.

[faust]

Suddenly, Awaclus turns around. As they reach towards their belt, a single tear rolls down their face. Then, they draw a knife, and before anyone can stop them, sink it right into mathdude's stomach.

In the commotion that follows, Awaclus is pulled away. Someone kneels over mathdude. "They're still alive! Send for Doc Cottle!"

mathdude has been incapacitated! They were Laura Roslin, and they were human-aligned. They had the following powers:

• passive, miscellaneous
• passive, killing
• miscellaneous, protective

MiX is now the President of the Colonies!

Thread unlocked!

[faust]

Vote Count 1.8

Robz888 (1): EFHW
MiX (3): ashersky, Robz888, SpaceAnemone
scolapasta (1): Swowl
EFHW (2): A Drowned Kernel, Awaclus
Dylan32 (2): WestCoastDidds, MiX

Not Voting (4): LaLight, Dylan32, scolapasta, Jack Rudd

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to exile. Day 1 ends March 25, 2021, 03:30:00 am. Note the extension of the deadline.

[Swowl]

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to exile. Day 1 ends March 25, 2021, 03:30:00 am. Note the extension of the deadline.

Also note - it only takes 7 to exile now.
*he asks knowing the answer* - Awaclus, wanna share anything?

[Swowl]

also also.. We do not know that "incapacitated" is the same as being sent to the brig. just to note.

[Swowl]

Is the same executive order still in effect?

[Swowl]

too good to be true - unvote

the list of people I would feel comfortable exiling this Day 1 is becoming extremely fucking small.

[faust]

Is the same executive order still in effect?

Yes.

[Awaclus]

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to exile. Day 1 ends March 25, 2021, 03:30:00 am. Note the extension of the deadline.

Also note - it only takes 7 to exile now.
*he asks knowing the answer* - Awaclus, wanna share anything?

I was offered two options, of which I chose option 1:

1) attempt to spare mathdude and remain town
2) attempt to kill mathdude and get my alignment changed to scum (by the way, the red scum team is in fact called Cylon-aligned, and their win con is the usual scum win con) and the number of points I would get for winning reduced to 2

The wording in the QT uses a different word instead of "attempt" which I will not share because I'm not sure if that would breach the QT quoting rule, but that idea is explicitly there. I don't know what it means in practice because evidently it didn't work.

[Awaclus]

I will not comment on whether or not I know why this happened.

[Swowl]

also also.. We do not know that "incapacitated" is the same as being sent to the brig. just to note.

actually yeah, at second glance, the flavor text would def suggest that Math is not dead. or brigged or whatever.


PPE2

[Swowl]

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to exile. Day 1 ends March 25, 2021, 03:30:00 am. Note the extension of the deadline.

Also note - it only takes 7 to exile now.
*he asks knowing the answer* - Awaclus, wanna share anything?

I was offered two options, of which I chose option 1:

1) attempt to spare mathdude and remain town
2) attempt to kill mathdude and get my alignment changed to scum (by the way, the red scum team is in fact called Cylon-aligned, and their win con is the usual scum win con) and the number of points I would get for winning reduced to 2

The wording in the QT uses a different word instead of "attempt" which I will not share because I'm not sure if that would breach the QT quoting rule, but that idea is explicitly there. I don't know what it means in practice because evidently it didn't work.

so... you are skum now?

[Swowl]

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to exile. Day 1 ends March 25, 2021, 03:30:00 am. Note the extension of the deadline.

Also note - it only takes 7 to exile now.
*he asks knowing the answer* - Awaclus, wanna share anything?

I was offered two options, of which I chose option 1:

1) attempt to spare mathdude and remain town
2) attempt to kill mathdude and get my alignment changed to scum (by the way, the red scum team is in fact called Cylon-aligned, and their win con is the usual scum win con) and the number of points I would get for winning reduced to 2

The wording in the QT uses a different word instead of "attempt" which I will not share because I'm not sure if that would breach the QT quoting rule, but that idea is explicitly there. I don't know what it means in practice because evidently it didn't work.

so... you are skum now?

disregard. read that again.

[Awaclus]

You should also read this again.

Flavor, death and exile.
Since the idea is to play the same character over multiple games, elimination from the game will not usually be flavored as dying. Instead, exiled players are sent to the brig and player that are killed by other means are incapacitated. It may be possible by certain abilities to permanently remove characters from the campaign.

[MiX]

Vote: Awaclus

I correctly read you as non-town, you are playing to try to be non-town, and you killed math who was obviously town. Die.

[Awaclus]

Vote: Awaclus

I correctly read you as non-town, you are playing to try to be non-town, and you killed math who was obviously town. Die.

Perhaps you should also read again because none of that is true, except for the last part but only technically. I'm town, I'm playing to try to be town, and I tried to save math who was obviously town.

[Awaclus]

For what it's worth, the flavor supports my claim.

Suddenly, Awaclus turns around. As they reach towards their belt, a single tear rolls down their face.

[MiX]

Vote: Awaclus

I correctly read you as non-town, you are playing to try to be non-town, and you killed math who was obviously town. Die.

Perhaps you should also read again because none of that is true, except for the last part but only technically. I'm town, I'm playing to try to be town, and I tried to save math who was obviously town.

Oh you chose option one. Ah. Hmm...I refuse to believe math could just be randomly removed from the game like that, and I had you as scum before, so you get my vote.

[MiX]

Sigh...........I couldn't even protect math. I feel so useless right now, all the things we talked about, everything that we did privately and publicly...useless, now.

Okay, now for bureaucratic things...I'm a civilian, of course, and now I need to pick a VP. If anyone wants to speak up regarding this, do so.

[Awaclus]

Oh you chose option one. Ah. Hmm...I refuse to believe math could just be randomly removed from the game like that, and I had you as scum before, so you get my vote.

Well, evidently he was removed from the game like that.

[MiX]

I'm still kinda upset about this...but I can still see the rational part of things.

I presume someone forced Awaclus to make this choice. If that's true, then someone picked Awaclus and gave him the option to either be town or scum. But Awaclus would quite literally always choose to be town, so this someone either doesn't know Awaclus, or isn't scum (or it's ash. crazy stuff and all that). So I think we should explore this option.

If the origin of this kill comes from scum, they most likely have day chat, or they talked about who they would pick with it N0 already. I think most people know Awaclus here, so that would leave a very small pool of people to be scum, which I guess would be Jack, scola and ash. So this seems unlikely to me.

It's more likely, I feel, that the person behind math's kill is a third-party, in which case, sadly, we shouldn't do anything about them. But given they turn people into scum (cylon-aligned, of course, take that ash), they're definitely anti-town, so...

Oh you chose option one. Ah. Hmm...I refuse to believe math could just be randomly removed from the game like that, and I had you as scum before, so you get my vote.

Well, evidently he was removed from the game like that.

The key word is "randomly".

[MiX]

Oh, duh, the most likely thing is that a traitor picked Awaclus, in which case we should definitely hunt them down.

What do you think about all this Awaclus?

[Awaclus]

What do you think about all this Awaclus?

I have more information than I'm willing to share at this point, but I guess I can try to shed a bit more light on what happened without revealing that information.

Based on what I know, it doesn't seem entirely impossible that a player used an action targeting me and mathdude to cause this, but I would definitely not assume that by default. I think it's more likely that someone did something that triggered a turning point and this was (possibly unintentionally) a side effect of that.

Considering that kills aren't flavored as kills in this game, it is actually more plausible than I initially thought that the whole choice to attempt to spare him or kill him was just a flavor thing and the only thing in game it affected was my alignment, while mathdude was doomed either way. But it could also be the case that there was a secret condition that had to be met for me to succeed in sparing him, that wasn't met.

[Awaclus]

I presume someone forced Awaclus to make this choice. If that's true, then someone picked Awaclus and gave him the option to either be town or scum. But Awaclus would quite literally always choose to be town, so this someone either doesn't know Awaclus, or isn't scum (or it's ash. crazy stuff and all that). So I think we should explore this option.

I wouldn't always choose to be town. I actually did seriously consider converting to scum. The points in favor of doing it were:

• I had spent most of D1 actually being town, so I would theoretically have had an easier time convincing people of my towniness than scum typically does
• Assuming the game was reasonably balanced even if I didn't choose to join the scum team, it could have been scum-favored if I did

The points against it:

• Because I had already spent most of D1 actually being town, assuming that my playing had been any good, I would have already caused some damage to the scum team, and while I can't actually know how good my performance so far has been, I don't feel like it has been below average
• My abilities could conceivably be useful as scum, but they're more useful as town
• Given that my playstyle is what it is, actually being town doesn't make it that much easier to convince people I'm town, and especially in this game it didn't look like people were strongly townreading me even though mostly they weren't suspicious of me either
• Assuming the game was reasonably balanced if I did choose to join the scum team, it would probably be town-favored if I didn't

Overall, I felt like my chances of winning the game were probably about the same or maybe a bit better if I chose to remain town, and because I get more legacy points for winning as town, it was clear that I should remain town.

[MiX]

Unvote

Vote: Dylan

[A Drowned Kernel]

Awaclus, is your flavor name Sharon Valerii (aka Boomer)?

[A Drowned Kernel]

Sigh...........I couldn't even protect math. I feel so useless right now, all the things we talked about, everything that we did privately and publicly...useless, now.

Okay, now for bureaucratic things...I'm a civilian, of course, and now I need to pick a VP. If anyone wants to speak up regarding this, do so.

I missed this. I nominate myself

[Awaclus]

Awaclus, is your flavor name Sharon Valerii (aka Boomer)?

No.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Awaclus, is your flavor name Sharon Valerii (aka Boomer)?

No.

That surprises me quite a bit. What is your flavor name, then?

[Awaclus]

Awaclus, is your flavor name Sharon Valerii (aka Boomer)?

No.

That surprises me quite a bit. What is your flavor name, then?

Billy Keikeya.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Hmm.

Ok

[ashersky]

That was exciting.

Poor mathdude.  I guess another green flip helps with meta-building though.

[LaLight]

where's the turning point?

[MiX]

where's the turning point?

What turning point?

That was exciting.

Poor mathdude.  I guess another green flip helps with meta-building though.

Emphasis on was. Now it's just dull.

Green flips don't really help, we won't know how to read him until he's scum.

[LaLight]

where's the turning point?

What turning point?

ah, sorry, reread and it's incapacitation at night.

[WestCoastDidds]

Oh no! Mathdude can't catch a freaking break.

Awaclus is reading even more town than he was before. It sounds like there was a chance his choice could have saved math, but it didn't work out. Bummer.

As much as I LOVE a qt, I do not want to be the VP. ADK is not a bad choice.

[scolapasta]

How was I supposed to know that pressing that button that glowed "DO NOT PRESS ME" would make Awaclus crazy??

In seriousness, that was annoying. I had actually cleared plans for Monday night in order to be online and figure out who to vote for, only to spend the night refreshing every few minutes for an update... at least now we have a couple of extra days to coalesce on a brigging, so at least there's that.

So I think MiX's theory that it was a third party action is interesting. I could also see it having been a scum move to get rid of a town president. (is it possible MiX was involved in order to gain the presidency?)

Awaclus, could you elaborate on how the option to spare mathdude were presented? I could imagine depending on wording that it could just have been the difference between incapacitate (which is the equivalent of a NK) and an actual character death, which we know is *somehow* possible.

I'm not sure you've been quite as towny as you think you've been, but I do think it's interesting to hear that's your thinking. If that's been your goal, I wonder if this is something you actually chose to do in order to further cement your towniness (also knows as Advanced WIFOM 201). In that case, the 2 fewer points for switching would be a nice touch.

[scolapasta]

Also,

vote: Dylan

His VLA was supposedly over the this weekend, yet he's still been very absent. Let's here what you (and other lurkers) think about the events of last night.

[faust]

Vote Count 1.9

Robz888 (1): EFHW
MiX (3): ashersky, Robz888, SpaceAnemone
EFHW (2): A Drowned Kernel, Awaclus
Dylan32 (3): WestCoastDidds, MiX, scolapasta

Not Voting (4): LaLight, Dylan32, Jack Rudd, Swowl

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to exile. Day 1 ends March 25, 2021, 03:30:00 am. This is in about 40 hours.

[Awaclus]

Awaclus, could you elaborate on how the option to spare mathdude were presented? I could imagine depending on wording that it could just have been the difference between incapacitate (which is the equivalent of a NK) and an actual character death, which we know is *somehow* possible.

That is a possibility. Nothing in particular about the message makes me think that would be the case, but nothing contradicts it either.

I'm not sure you've been quite as towny as you think you've been, but I do think it's interesting to hear that's your thinking. If that's been your goal, I wonder if this is something you actually chose to do in order to further cement your towniness (also knows as Advanced WIFOM 201). In that case, the 2 fewer points for switching would be a nice touch.

I don't think this is a misrepresentation of the situation:

in this game it didn't look like people were strongly townreading me even though mostly they weren't suspicious of me either

[scolapasta]

Awaclus, could you elaborate on how the option to spare mathdude were presented? I could imagine depending on wording that it could just have been the difference between incapacitate (which is the equivalent of a NK) and an actual character death, which we know is *somehow* possible.

That is a possibility. Nothing in particular about the message makes me think that would be the case, but nothing contradicts it either.

I'm not sure you've been quite as towny as you think you've been, but I do think it's interesting to hear that's your thinking. If that's been your goal, I wonder if this is something you actually chose to do in order to further cement your towniness (also knows as Advanced WIFOM 201). In that case, the 2 fewer points for switching would be a nice touch.

I don't think this is a misrepresentation of the situation:

in this game it didn't look like people were strongly townreading me even though mostly they weren't suspicious of me either

Like I said Advanced WIFOM 201, now agreeing with me that you might purposefully be trying to be extra towny.

Vote: Awaclus

For those with more experience in these types of RMM, do we think that this is a once per game kinda thing; or should we be wary that whatever triggered it could happen again and cause Awaclus to stab someone else?

[Awaclus]

Awaclus, could you elaborate on how the option to spare mathdude were presented? I could imagine depending on wording that it could just have been the difference between incapacitate (which is the equivalent of a NK) and an actual character death, which we know is *somehow* possible.

That is a possibility. Nothing in particular about the message makes me think that would be the case, but nothing contradicts it either.

I'm not sure you've been quite as towny as you think you've been, but I do think it's interesting to hear that's your thinking. If that's been your goal, I wonder if this is something you actually chose to do in order to further cement your towniness (also knows as Advanced WIFOM 201). In that case, the 2 fewer points for switching would be a nice touch.

I don't think this is a misrepresentation of the situation:

in this game it didn't look like people were strongly townreading me even though mostly they weren't suspicious of me either

Like I said Advanced WIFOM 201, now agreeing with me that you might purposefully be trying to be extra towny.

Vote: Awaclus

I quoted myself contradicting the narrative you were trying to paint of me, I don't think that counts as agreeing with you.

For those with more experience in these types of RMM, do we think that this is a once per game kinda thing; or should we be wary that whatever triggered it could happen again and cause Awaclus to stab someone else?

It seems likely that it's a once per game thing and specific to me and mathdude. It would be pretty ridiculous for scum to have a power that kills a townie and potentially recruits another townie, unless they have no NK.

[Robz888]

Vote: Awaclus

[MiX]

How was I supposed to know that pressing that button that glowed "DO NOT PRESS ME" would make Awaclus crazy??

What does this mean?

And no, I refuse anyone trying to imply I would kill math. If you think that is possible, you aren't trying to play the game seriously.

[Swowl]

Sigh...........I couldn't even protect math. I feel so useless right now, all the things we talked about, everything that we did privately and publicly...useless, now.

Okay, now for bureaucratic things...I'm a civilian, of course, and now I need to pick a VP. If anyone wants to speak up regarding this, do so.

pretty sure you have to wait until the next "even night", so you got some time.

[Swowl]

Thing I do not get here is why Awaclus would choose Math, if Awaclus made the choice. I mean I can think of a reason, but I still don't think they would really try to set MiX up that obviously.

Not sure how that makes me feel about skummy v not skummy on Awaclus here.

[MiX]

Sigh...........I couldn't even protect math. I feel so useless right now, all the things we talked about, everything that we did privately and publicly...useless, now.

Okay, now for bureaucratic things...I'm a civilian, of course, and now I need to pick a VP. If anyone wants to speak up regarding this, do so.

pretty sure you have to wait until the next "even night", so you got some time.

No, I do have to pick one today.

[Swowl]

ooooo cuz you just got the job right right. carry on.

[SpaceAnemone]

I also thought that Awaclus made sense as Boomer, and hadn't considered Billy. I was about add, for the benefit of the thread at large, that Billy is another non-military character, then I remembered that the main person who'd shown interest in the miltary-civilian division was Mathdude :-( It is generally a pretty Cylon-ish thing to do just to unexpectedly kill someone, though. That would be Cylon in the species sense, not necessarily always Cylon-aligned in the probable-game-wincon sense.

As for the third party hypothesis: it's kind of weird, by which I mean it definitely didn't occur to me. If it's also not that obvious to others, we should consider that this could be one of those many times when MiX's conclusions are strongly coloured by what MiX himself knows about the game, i.e. does MiX have any special knowledge about  third parties?

As for VP-ness, I do not have enough hours in the day to cope with a MiX QT, and have no strong sense of townieness on anyone else.

[Awaclus]

Thing I do not get here is why Awaclus would choose Math, if Awaclus made the choice.

I didn't.

[Jack Rudd]

Billy's a pretty minor figure in the show overall, and isn't a playable character in the board game, so it's slightly surprising that he was a character in this, but hey ho.

[Awaclus]

As for the third party hypothesis: it's kind of weird, by which I mean it definitely didn't occur to me. If it's also not that obvious to others, we should consider that this could be one of those many times when MiX's conclusions are strongly coloured by what MiX himself knows about the game, i.e. does MiX have any special knowledge about  third parties?

I don't think it's likely that a third party (or anyone, besides faust) caused this to happen on purpose, but I also don't think it's weird to consider the possibility of third parties existing in an RMM. For example, I took that into account when I specified that the Cylon-aligned faction is the red team.

[Awaclus]

Vote: Robz888

no u

[MiX]

I also thought that Awaclus made sense as Boomer, and hadn't considered Billy. I was about add, for the benefit of the thread at large, that Billy is another non-military character, then I remembered that the main person who'd shown interest in the miltary-civilian division was Mathdude :-( It is generally a pretty Cylon-ish thing to do just to unexpectedly kill someone, though. That would be Cylon in the species sense, not necessarily always Cylon-aligned in the probable-game-wincon sense.

As for the third party hypothesis: it's kind of weird, by which I mean it definitely didn't occur to me. If it's also not that obvious to others, we should consider that this could be one of those many times when MiX's conclusions are strongly coloured by what MiX himself knows about the game, i.e. does MiX have any special knowledge about  third parties?

As for VP-ness, I do not have enough hours in the day to cope with a MiX QT, and have no strong sense of townieness on anyone else.

You can consider what I know, but that wouldn't be pro-town.

ooooo cuz you just got the job right right. carry on.

Do you have any opinion on who I should pick as VP?

As for the third party hypothesis: it's kind of weird, by which I mean it definitely didn't occur to me. If it's also not that obvious to others, we should consider that this could be one of those many times when MiX's conclusions are strongly coloured by what MiX himself knows about the game, i.e. does MiX have any special knowledge about  third parties?

I don't think it's likely that a third party (or anyone, besides faust) caused this to happen on purpose, but I also don't think it's weird to consider the possibility of third parties existing in an RMM. For example, I took that into account when I specified that the Cylon-aligned faction is the red team.

Speaking about cylon-aligned, can you elaborate on what the scum faction is, without quoting?

Vote: Robz888

no u

How do I ask a question about this vote that you will answer...

Do you think Robz is scum?

Do you think your vote on Robz is the best you could do here?

Would you vote for someone else if the wagons looked differently? If so, who?

[Awaclus]

Speaking about cylon-aligned, can you elaborate on what the scum faction is, without quoting?

I have already said everything that I know: their name (Cylon-aligned), their color (red) and their win con (the same win con that scum always has). It's nothing groundbreaking but I thought it was worth sharing anyway.

How do I ask a question about this vote that you will answer...

Do you think Robz is scum?

Do you think your vote on Robz is the best you could do here?

Would you vote for someone else if the wagons looked differently? If so, who?

1) Yes.

2) If I thought there was something better I could do here, I would obviously do that other thing instead.

3) Not at the moment.

[Awaclus]

By the way, it's kind of interesting that mathdude getting almost killed didn't reset the vote count. If someone had had 7 votes when it happened, I guess they would have gotten insta-exiled as soon as the day continued.

[Swowl]

ooooo cuz you just got the job right right. carry on.

Do you have any opinion on who I should pick as VP?

I am mulling it over. Need to decide if I wanna throw my hat in the ring or not before I consider others. I'll get a short list to you though sometime today once I have thought it through.

[A Drowned Kernel]

ooooo cuz you just got the job right right. carry on.

Do you have any opinion on who I should pick as VP?

I am mulling it over. Need to decide if I wanna throw my hat in the ring or not before I consider others. I'll get a short list to you though sometime today once I have thought it through.

I'm going to have to ask you not to throw your hat in the ring

[scolapasta]

ooooo cuz you just got the job right right. carry on.

Do you have any opinion on who I should pick as VP?

I am mulling it over. Need to decide if I wanna throw my hat in the ring or not before I consider others. I'll get a short list to you though sometime today once I have thought it through.

I'm going to have to ask you not to throw your hat in the ring

Why? Specifically Swowl, or do you want to be unopposed?

[A Drowned Kernel]

ooooo cuz you just got the job right right. carry on.

Do you have any opinion on who I should pick as VP?

I am mulling it over. Need to decide if I wanna throw my hat in the ring or not before I consider others. I'll get a short list to you though sometime today once I have thought it through.

I'm going to have to ask you not to throw your hat in the ring

Why? Specifically Swowl, or do you want to be unopposed?

Specifically swowl, and because of reasons

[Swowl]

ooooo cuz you just got the job right right. carry on.

Do you have any opinion on who I should pick as VP?

I am mulling it over. Need to decide if I wanna throw my hat in the ring or not before I consider others. I'll get a short list to you though sometime today once I have thought it through.

I'm going to have to ask you not to throw your hat in the ring

Why? Specifically Swowl, or do you want to be unopposed?

Specifically swowl, and because of reasons

We will stop talking about this now.

[Swowl]

that comes off bossy.
It would not be beneficial to talk about this further right now.

And yeah, I don't wanna be VP.

I would be fine with ADK as VP.

[Swowl]

Awaclus - pretty pretty please... reasons for Robz?

[Dylan32]

Ok, I'm finally caught up. Strange game so far. I don't know if I've said in thread yet, but I don't know anything about the flavor except for some brief wiki reading to try to understand my character.

So after reading, I think the best place for my vote is Vote: EFHW. I don't have any super strong scum reads, but there were a couple posts, 229 and 231 specifically, that make me think it's a better than random chance of finding scum there. Thinking about how the executive order affects scum's PR hunting chances as a first reaction is scummy.

[scolapasta]

ooooo cuz you just got the job right right. carry on.

Do you have any opinion on who I should pick as VP?

I am mulling it over. Need to decide if I wanna throw my hat in the ring or not before I consider others. I'll get a short list to you though sometime today once I have thought it through.

I'm going to have to ask you not to throw your hat in the ring

Why? Specifically Swowl, or do you want to be unopposed?

Specifically swowl, and because of reasons

We will stop talking about this now.

Something doesn't smell right about this... but I can't put my finger on it yet. Either way, I'd be wary of picking someone who *wants* to be VP.  (who's to say ADK isn't the 3rd party that did shenanigans in order to open up the VP spot?)

[Swowl]

If ADK's reason is the same as my reason, there is a fairly decent reason for ADK here as a choice.
Can't really argue that it would seem "off" from an outside pov though. @ pasta

[LaLight]

I'd love to be a vp.

[scolapasta]

If ADK's reason is the same as my reason, there is a fairly decent reason for ADK here as a choice.
Can't really argue that it would seem "off" from an outside pov though. @ pasta

How's this for an idea - and I'm sure people will find a way to call it antitown, but I actually think it would be helpful - what if people who want to be VP reveal their character name?

For those of us who know flavor, I can think of some characters that I'd rather not have as VP.

[Swowl]

I'd love to be a vp.

I would also be ok with this.

[EFHW]

Interesting, mathdude had a passive killing power. But it wasn't activated by the assassination attempt.

PPE: 34!

[EFHW]

I find Awaclus believable here. Someone asked what the Awaclus-mathdude connection would be, but it seems more likely it was a {someone}-president connection, with someone being chosen somehow.

[scolapasta]

I find Awaclus believable here. Someone asked what the Awaclus-mathdude connection would be, but it seems more likely it was a {someone}-president connection, with someone being chosen somehow.

Interesting thought. Maybe. But that feels like it would be harder to balance, design wise.

[Swowl]

OK how about this..

1. What would Awaclus gain from offing mathdude?
- Mix takes the spot - that suggests MiX/Awaclus, which is pretty much ruled out by the fact they are at each other.
- According to Awaclus, they could get easier character points. This would be at the cost of putting them in this position however. So, imo, also unlikely.
- Third party could be a thing. And while I don't want to cater to that concept right now, on the skummy side of things it would be what makes the most sense because of the chaos it causes. but again... really puts Awaclus out there.

2. What would Math gain from killing and/or setting up Awaclus?
- Nothing. They flipped Green. Just covering bases.

3. What would Mix gain from from killing math/setting up Awaclus?
- Specifically Awaclus, no clue.
- Math, obviously gives Mix the prez. Which, again... that position is weird.

Point being that either Mix or Awaclus to orchestrate this would be strange as skum. Or as town, obviously. The only way it would make like.. "sense", is if both of them are skum... which is just reaching way too far.

Maybe a third party in the two of them, but I very much doubt mafia.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Either way, I'd be wary of picking someone who *wants* to be VP.

This is bad logic imo. It's pro-town for a town person to be in these positions, and the one person every town person knows to be town is themself

[A Drowned Kernel]

For those not verse in the flavor, math's death hear mirrors an event in the series, where a character (different from the one that awaclus claimed) is revealed to be a cylon who was previously unaware that they were a cylon when their programming activates and they try to assassinate the president (math's character). I would guess that this was either

a) something that was scripted to happen today no matter what

b) something that scum was able to choose when to trigger, possibly with their choice of "sleeper agent" and possibly not

I don't think an awaclus exile is a good idea today

[Swowl]

Awaclus, is your flavor name Sharon Valerii (aka Boomer)?

I missed this... why did you think Awaclus would be Boomer here?

I actually think that Awaclus' flavor claim kind of adds up. I mean, I am assuming fake claims bc RMM exist, but I do not get why Boomer would be a fit.

*been a while since I have seen the show, please feel free to tell me I am being dumb if need be*

[Awaclus]

Awaclus - pretty pretty please... reasons for Robz?

Reason for Robz: he's scum.

[Swowl]

Awaclus - pretty pretty please... reasons for Robz?

Reason for Robz: he's scum.

dude work with me here. just like anything. No one is giving anyyyyyyy reason for robz.

[Awaclus]

- According to Awaclus, they could get easier character points. This would be at the cost of putting them in this position however. So, imo, also unlikely.

I haven't said that and I haven't gotten any points. I was offered the option to decrease the number of points I would get from winning, but I didn't take it.

[Awaclus]

Awaclus - pretty pretty please... reasons for Robz?

Reason for Robz: he's scum.

dude work with me here. just like anything. No one is giving anyyyyyyy reason for robz.

Why are you not his scum buddy?

[Swowl]

- According to Awaclus, they could get easier character points. This would be at the cost of putting them in this position however. So, imo, also unlikely.

I haven't said that and I haven't gotten any points. I was offered the option to decrease the number of points I would get from winning, but I didn't take it.

the choice you were given was to decrease points and convert to skum?

[Swowl]

Awaclus - pretty pretty please... reasons for Robz?

Reason for Robz: he's scum.

dude work with me here. just like anything. No one is giving anyyyyyyy reason for robz.

Why are you not his scum buddy?

bc I have a pm that says I am town.
why are you so unwilling to give a reason?

[Swowl]

beating you to it
"bc robz is skum" doesn't count

[Awaclus]

the choice you were given was to decrease points and convert to skum?

Yes.

[Swowl]

Flavor, death and exile.
Since the idea is to play the same character over multiple games, elimination from the game will not usually be flavored as dying. Instead, exiled players are sent to the brig and player that are killed by other means are incapacitated. It may be possible by certain abilities to permanently remove characters from the campaign.

I think someone already touched on this. but it would appear that math is not coming back.

[Awaclus]

bc I have a pm that says I am town.
why are you so unwilling to give a reason?

I don't have a pm that says I am town, I have a pm with a link to a QT. Vote: Swowl

[Swowl]

bc I have a pm that says I am town.
why are you so unwilling to give a reason?

I don't have a pm that says I am town, I have a pm with a link to a QT. Vote: Swowl

sick question fade bro

[Swowl]

bc I have a pm that says I am town.
why are you so unwilling to give a reason?

I don't have a pm that says I am town, I have a pm with a link to a QT. Vote: Swowl

I realized right here, this is the first time I have been voted. That made me realize that we should do something. Not today, tomorrow when we have more time. But since we know that LL brings vote manipulation mechanics into the game, we may want to facilitate something where we all play 1 vote around the table (spreading it out to be safe) but to check to see if there is any other nonsense going on.

[Swowl]

meh that's ridiculous, no way there are two that can be found like that. nvm.

[faust]

Vote Count 1.10

Robz888 (1): EFHW
MiX (2): ashersky, SpaceAnemone
EFHW (2): A Drowned Kernel, Dylan32
Dylan32 (2): WestCoastDidds, MiX
Awaclus (2): scolapasta, Robz888
Swowl (1): Awaclus

Not Voting (3): LaLight, Jack Rudd, Swowl

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to exile. Day 1 ends March 25, 2021, 03:30:00 am. This is in about 24 hours.

[faust]

A Drowned Kernel has been selected as Vice President.

[LaLight]

that works too, I guess

[A Drowned Kernel]

Awaclus, is your flavor name Sharon Valerii (aka Boomer)?

I missed this... why did you think Awaclus would be Boomer here?

I actually think that Awaclus' flavor claim kind of adds up. I mean, I am assuming fake claims bc RMM exist, but I do not get why Boomer would be a fit.

*been a while since I have seen the show, please feel free to tell me I am being dumb if need be*

See my post immediately preceding this one. Boomer is the one who tries to kill Rosalyn

[MiX]

bc I have a pm that says I am town.
why are you so unwilling to give a reason?

I don't have a pm that says I am town, I have a pm with a link to a QT. Vote: Swowl

I guess this means Awaclus' reason wasn't that rock solid?

[Awaclus]

bc I have a pm that says I am town.
why are you so unwilling to give a reason?

I don't have a pm that says I am town, I have a pm with a link to a QT. Vote: Swowl

I guess this means Awaclus' reason wasn't that rock solid?

It was, but the reason I have now is diamond solid.

[WestCoastDidds]

All hail the new VP!

MiX, have you had an opportunity to chat with ADK yet? Any better read on them?

[MiX]

All hail the new VP!

MiX, have you had an opportunity to chat with ADK yet? Any better read on them?

Yeah, I thought they were town and I still think they're town.

[EFHW]

MiX and ADK, what kind of collaboration are you looking for? MiX, do you still have the same model in mind as when you were vp and mathdude was prez?

[MiX]

MiX and ADK, what kind of collaboration are you looking for? MiX, do you still have the same model in mind as when you were vp and mathdude was prez?

No...it's not as fun.

I don't wanna talk about it today. You can ask more about this D2.

[LaLight]

MiX and ADK, what kind of collaboration are you looking for? MiX, do you still have the same model in mind as when you were vp and mathdude was prez?

No...it's not as fun.

I don't wanna talk about it today. You can ask more about this D2.

how do you know you'll live?

[LaLight]

i don't trust MiX

[MiX]

MiX and ADK, what kind of collaboration are you looking for? MiX, do you still have the same model in mind as when you were vp and mathdude was prez?

No...it's not as fun.

I don't wanna talk about it today. You can ask more about this D2.

how do you know you'll live?

If I don't live then it doesn't matter.

[scolapasta]

The problem with MiX is if he's town, then all this planning, info hiding all, is fine as it's pro-town. BUT if he's scum, we're in trouble. High risk for well, medium reward. (and there's always the third party case - I could very well see MiX as a third party here)

I don't have quite a scummy read on him, but yeah, I don't trust either.

[SpaceAnemone]

For those not verse in the flavor, math's death hear mirrors an event in the series, where a character (different from the one that awaclus claimed) is revealed to be a cylon who was previously unaware that they were a cylon when their programming activates and they try to assassinate the president (math's character).

One of us is mis-remembering here, because I think Boomer shot the Admiral, not the President.

Is it possible faust set up a storyline to parallel that assassination attempt, where a junior "sleeper" on the civilian side tries to take out the civilian leader, rather than having a lower-ranking military person shoot the military leader? Given that Billy was written out of the show and replaced by Tory, who actually did turn out to be a Cylon, it might not be so impossible for Billy to have been written as a sleeper agent for this game.

Either way, we could look at Mathdude's killing as some kind of pre-programmed event that cylon-Awaclus was destined to enact at some point even if he elects to remains human-aligned, or alternatively it might just be a weird side-effect of the particular game configuration faust rolled for this current game in the campaign, and that Awaclus obtained independent from his role.

PPE not nearly as many as I'd expected to show up in the meantime!

[Jack Rudd]

Boomer shot Commander Adama, yes. (He was the highest ranking military officer in the show at the time, although this was briefly not the case when Admiral Cain showed up.)

[SpaceAnemone]

Just out of curiosity, what other games can anyone remember where an alignment switch was offered either pre-game or as part of the game, as Awaclus tells us has just happened here?

[Swowl]

For those not verse in the flavor, math's death hear mirrors an event in the series, where a character (different from the one that awaclus claimed) is revealed to be a cylon who was previously unaware that they were a cylon when their programming activates and they try to assassinate the president (math's character).

One of us is mis-remembering here, because I think Boomer shot the Admiral, not the President.

Is it possible faust set up a storyline to parallel that assassination attempt, where a junior "sleeper" on the civilian side tries to take out the civilian leader, rather than having a lower-ranking military person shoot the military leader? Given that Billy was written out of the show and replaced by Tory, who actually did turn out to be a Cylon, it might not be so impossible for Billy to have been written as a sleeper agent for this game.

Either way, we could look at Mathdude's killing as some kind of pre-programmed event that cylon-Awaclus was destined to enact at some point even if he elects to remains human-aligned, or alternatively it might just be a weird side-effect of the particular game configuration faust rolled for this current game in the campaign, and that Awaclus obtained independent from his role.

PPE not nearly as many as I'd expected to show up in the meantime!

Interesting idea about it being written in as a sleeper mechanic.

The only reason I wanna say "no", is because of the terminology of the flip. Roslin has been incapacitated. Which, if I am understanding correctly, is like "Roslin is gone, their char arc is gone, this game and other games, they ain't coming back" type of thing.

Seems pretty like detrimental to have it all pre designed that way. The exception being if you are right about some time of roll that was made, or if it is actually like a one shot thing. The only thing that makes it "unbelievable" to me is the timeline in which it happened (day 1)... but if it was randomly to happen at "some point during the game" or if it is activated... then yeah I could see it being a thing.

[scolapasta]

For those not verse in the flavor, math's death hear mirrors an event in the series, where a character (different from the one that awaclus claimed) is revealed to be a cylon who was previously unaware that they were a cylon when their programming activates and they try to assassinate the president (math's character).

One of us is mis-remembering here, because I think Boomer shot the Admiral, not the President.

Is it possible faust set up a storyline to parallel that assassination attempt, where a junior "sleeper" on the civilian side tries to take out the civilian leader, rather than having a lower-ranking military person shoot the military leader? Given that Billy was written out of the show and replaced by Tory, who actually did turn out to be a Cylon, it might not be so impossible for Billy to have been written as a sleeper agent for this game.

Either way, we could look at Mathdude's killing as some kind of pre-programmed event that cylon-Awaclus was destined to enact at some point even if he elects to remains human-aligned, or alternatively it might just be a weird side-effect of the particular game configuration faust rolled for this current game in the campaign, and that Awaclus obtained independent from his role.

PPE not nearly as many as I'd expected to show up in the meantime!

Interesting idea about it being written in as a sleeper mechanic.

The only reason I wanna say "no", is because of the terminology of the flip. Roslin has been incapacitated. Which, if I am understanding correctly, is like "Roslin is gone, their char arc is gone, this game and other games, they ain't coming back" type of thing.

Seems pretty like detrimental to have it all pre designed that way. The exception being if you are right about some time of roll that was made, or if it is actually like a one shot thing. The only thing that makes it "unbelievable" to me is the timeline in which it happened (day 1)... but if it was randomly to happen at "some point during the game" or if it is activated... then yeah I could see it being a thing.

I agree with this - consequence feels too severe* to not have been instigated by either scum or 3rd parties.

* unless there was something we were supposed to do before it happened, but then I think we would've had some kind of warning...

[A Drowned Kernel]

Boomer shot Commander Adama, yes. (He was the highest ranking military officer in the show at the time, although this was briefly not the case when Admiral Cain showed up.)

It's been a long time since I've seen the show but man, I had such a clear memory that it was Rosalin that got shot. You're right that it was Adama though, which make me think it's much less likely that the event was pre-scripted

But we are wasting a lot of time talking about this to no purpose. Either we're exiling awaclus today or we're not, and if we're not, we need to exile someone else. I still like an EFHW exile, does anyone have a reason it's a bad idea?

[MiX]

Oh deadline's in 6 hours, damn.

Boomer shot Commander Adama, yes. (He was the highest ranking military officer in the show at the time, although this was briefly not the case when Admiral Cain showed up.)

It's been a long time since I've seen the show but man, I had such a clear memory that it was Rosalin that got shot. You're right that it was Adama though, which make me think it's much less likely that the event was pre-scripted

But we are wasting a lot of time talking about this to no purpose. Either we're exiling awaclus today or we're not, and if we're not, we need to exile someone else. I still like an EFHW exile, does anyone have a reason it's a bad idea?

Sure I'll vote EFHW in the interest of consolidation. But it's perfectly fine for there to be no exile today I feel.

Vote: EFHW

[MiX]

Eeeeeeh thinking about it more, no, I townread EFHW more than average.

Vote: Dylan

I'm off now. Don't expect to hear good "why not EFHW" reasons, I'm tired. I have a post with my EFHW townread sometime ago.

[Dylan32]

For those not verse in the flavor, math's death hear mirrors an event in the series, where a character (different from the one that awaclus claimed) is revealed to be a cylon who was previously unaware that they were a cylon when their programming activates and they try to assassinate the president (math's character).

One of us is mis-remembering here, because I think Boomer shot the Admiral, not the President.

Is it possible faust set up a storyline to parallel that assassination attempt, where a junior "sleeper" on the civilian side tries to take out the civilian leader, rather than having a lower-ranking military person shoot the military leader? Given that Billy was written out of the show and replaced by Tory, who actually did turn out to be a Cylon, it might not be so impossible for Billy to have been written as a sleeper agent for this game.

Either way, we could look at Mathdude's killing as some kind of pre-programmed event that cylon-Awaclus was destined to enact at some point even if he elects to remains human-aligned, or alternatively it might just be a weird side-effect of the particular game configuration faust rolled for this current game in the campaign, and that Awaclus obtained independent from his role.

PPE not nearly as many as I'd expected to show up in the meantime!

Interesting idea about it being written in as a sleeper mechanic.

The only reason I wanna say "no", is because of the terminology of the flip. Roslin has been incapacitated. Which, if I am understanding correctly, is like "Roslin is gone, their char arc is gone, this game and other games, they ain't coming back" type of thing.

Seems pretty like detrimental to have it all pre designed that way. The exception being if you are right about some time of roll that was made, or if it is actually like a one shot thing. The only thing that makes it "unbelievable" to me is the timeline in which it happened (day 1)... but if it was randomly to happen at "some point during the game" or if it is activated... then yeah I could see it being a thing.

I don't think you are understanding correctly, because in the flavor it specifically said they were still alive. Incapacitated is the flavor name for "death" in the individual games of this, but I think perma-character death from the legacy side of this game would probably actually be flavored as such.

Also, I don't think this was probably a case where the president would get eliminated no matter what D1 unless some other turning point was reached, and since the game state hadn't changed at that point, I would think that means it was definitely a choice someone made to make it happen then. Furthermore, this is a game made for all our enjoyment, and a scripted "whoever randomly gets rolled to be the President is gonna for sure die without any player agency" just sounds like terrible game design, so that should probably be ruled out.

[Dylan32]

I won't be on in 6 hours, but I will check back before I go to bed to consolidate if needed, but I do think EFHW's the best exile for today. All the other main candidates either have things that could paint a good town picture for them or they are me, so I'd rather stay where I am.

[Jack Rudd]

No idea who's on which side, here.

Vote: SpaceAnemone just to add variety to the mix of votes.

[Swowl]

Vote: EFHW

[Swowl]

No idea who's on which side, here.

Vote: SpaceAnemone just to add variety to the mix of votes.

If you had to pick a wagon, who would you pick?

[Swowl]

Eeeeeeh thinking about it more, no, I townread EFHW more than average.

Vote: Dylan

I'm off now. Don't expect to hear good "why not EFHW" reasons, I'm tired. I have a post with my EFHW townread sometime ago.

OK... can we get a why Dylan?
Also how are you and ADK possibly on different people

[WestCoastDidds]

I didn’t realize the deadline was tonight/early morning....

WCD count

Robz888 (1): EFHW
MiX (2): ashersky, SpaceAnemone
EFHW (3): A Drowned Kernel, Dylan32, Swowl
Dylan32 (2): WestCoastDidds, MiX
Awaclus (2): scolapasta, Robz888
Swowl (1): Awaclus
Space (1): Jack Rudd

Not Voting (1): LaLight

Takes 7 to exile.

[WestCoastDidds]

I think that I’d rather no exile than risk another green team member.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Eeeeeeh thinking about it more, no, I townread EFHW more than average.

Vote: Dylan

I'm off now. Don't expect to hear good "why not EFHW" reasons, I'm tired. I have a post with my EFHW townread sometime ago.

OK... can we get a why Dylan?
Also how are you and ADK possibly on different people

Just because I think someone's town doesn't mean I 100% agree with their reads. But I am willing to switch to dylan to get an exile through

[Swowl]

I think that I’d rather no exile than risk another green team member.

I mean I know I don't want to be on someone that ends up flipping town, but we need to lynch someone right?
Why is Dylan your ok to vote person?

[Swowl]

Eeeeeeh thinking about it more, no, I townread EFHW more than average.

Vote: Dylan

I'm off now. Don't expect to hear good "why not EFHW" reasons, I'm tired. I have a post with my EFHW townread sometime ago.

OK... can we get a why Dylan?
Also how are you and ADK possibly on different people

Just because I think someone's town doesn't mean I 100% agree with their reads. But I am willing to switch to dylan to get an exile through

fair enough.
Gonna ask this question to everyone until I get an answer.... why would you be ok with switching to Dylan? Just to ensure a flip or do you actually find something skummy?

[Swowl]

@ lalight - who would you vote right now if you could?

[MiX]

No idea who's on which side, here.

Vote: SpaceAnemone just to add variety to the mix of votes.

Variety is not what we need right now, it's 4 hours until deadline.

Eeeeeeh thinking about it more, no, I townread EFHW more than average.

Vote: Dylan

I'm off now. Don't expect to hear good "why not EFHW" reasons, I'm tired. I have a post with my EFHW townread sometime ago.

OK... can we get a why Dylan?
Also how are you and ADK possibly on different people

I had a readspost earlier, read it, maybe it helps, I forgot what I wrote there. Dylan flipping any color of the rainbow would not surprise nor upset me, which I think is true only for him. He's just a fine person to flip, and I'm still townreading most people.

What ADK said, and also I still townread EFHW, even if maybe they're scum. As in it doesn't matter what ADK says, I'm probably not changing my read on EFHW today (and I won't because I'm sleeping now).

[scolapasta]

I keep going back to Awaclus's claim of his options and something doesn't feel right:

Is allegedly given a choice of human aligned or cylon aligned. If we assume a balanced game, then whichever side pick should then have an advantage. So this is good for him either way. Which doesn't seem necessarily right since why should he get an advantage of getting onto a favorable team?

If he picks human aligned, mathdude is spared (or at least he's lead to believe that could happen). So that's a plus for picking human side, increases the advantage. But that also balanced by if he picks cylon side, mathdude is incapacitated, so that increases that side.

So feels like it should be a 50-50 decision. But conveniently, if he picks cylon side, it's 2 fewer points if he wins. So he can easily claim town side. And then, somehow, mathdude is still incapacitated, anyway.

I'm sticking with my vote.

[Swowl]

Aright, at least I got a reason from someone.

So it is said - I disagree. I would take Town!Dylan in Lylo over anyone playing this game.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Eeeeeeh thinking about it more, no, I townread EFHW more than average.

Vote: Dylan

I'm off now. Don't expect to hear good "why not EFHW" reasons, I'm tired. I have a post with my EFHW townread sometime ago.

OK... can we get a why Dylan?
Also how are you and ADK possibly on different people

Just because I think someone's town doesn't mean I 100% agree with their reads. But I am willing to switch to dylan to get an exile through

fair enough.
Gonna ask this question to everyone until I get an answer.... why would you be ok with switching to Dylan? Just to ensure a flip or do you actually find something skummy?

Dylan's a fine flip, and mix likes it

[WestCoastDidds]

I think that I’d rather no exile than risk another green team member.

I mean I know I don't want to be on someone that ends up flipping town, but we need to lynch someone right?
Why is Dylan your ok to vote person?

Why do we have to exile someone? It’s RMM, so all the spicy stuff happens at night. If an exile doesn’t go through, it’s not the worst thing since we already had a green death today. I definitely don’t feel pressure to switch to EFHW, who I haven’t scumread yet.

I voted for Dylan originally because he was my next scummy feeling person and there weren’t reasons to take him off my list like there were for Jack or ADK. I’m not trying to get anyone to join me. I don’t have a strong case or rock solid reasons. But he feels scummier to me than any other person with votes so far, and I don’t feel pressure to consolidate.

[scolapasta]

Aright, at least I got a reason from someone.

So it is said - I disagree. I would take Town!Dylan in Lylo over anyone playing this game.

So what's your answer to uoir question but for EFHW: why [are you voting for EFHW?] Just to ensure a flip or do you actually find something skummy?

[scolapasta]

I think that I’d rather no exile than risk another green team member.

I mean I know I don't want to be on someone that ends up flipping town, but we need to lynch someone right?
Why is Dylan your ok to vote person?

Why do we have to exile someone? It’s RMM, so all the spicy stuff happens at night. If an exile doesn’t go through, it’s not the worst thing since we already had a green death today. I definitely don’t feel pressure to switch to EFHW, who I haven’t scumread yet.

I voted for Dylan originally because he was my next scummy feeling person and there weren’t reasons to take him off my list like there were for Jack or ADK. I’m not trying to get anyone to join me. I don’t have a strong case or rock solid reasons. But he feels scummier to me than any other person with votes so far, and I don’t feel pressure to consolidate.

You prefer Dylan to no exile?

[Swowl]

Aright, at least I got a reason from someone.

So it is said - I disagree. I would take Town!Dylan in Lylo over anyone playing this game.

So what's your answer to uoir question but for EFHW: why [are you voting for EFHW?] Just to ensure a flip or do you actually find something skummy?

I would not be on EFHW if I did not think they would flip skum more likely than town.

[LaLight]

@ lalight - who would you vote right now if you could?

WCD

[LaLight]

totally forgot to make the case, promise I'll do that. super swamped with job until the end of the week

[Awaclus]

I keep going back to Awaclus's claim of his options and something doesn't feel right:

Is allegedly given a choice of human aligned or cylon aligned. If we assume a balanced game, then whichever side pick should then have an advantage. So this is good for him either way. Which doesn't seem necessarily right since why should he get an advantage of getting onto a favorable team?

If he picks human aligned, mathdude is spared (or at least he's lead to believe that could happen). So that's a plus for picking human side, increases the advantage. But that also balanced by if he picks cylon side, mathdude is incapacitated, so that increases that side.

So feels like it should be a 50-50 decision. But conveniently, if he picks cylon side, it's 2 fewer points if he wins. So he can easily claim town side. And then, somehow, mathdude is still incapacitated, anyway.

I'm sticking with my vote.

1) It's 3 fewer points. Town gets 5 points for winning, not 4.

2) None of that is a grand revelation, you're just repeating things that I said and ignoring some of them.

[Dylan32]

So, I'm a bit confused why MiX and ADK are so sure I'd be a fine flip when I was VLA for most of the day and probably am bottom 3 in number of interactions to get info from. I mean if you are wanting what is basically a lurker exile, then yeah I guess I can't argue that other than to say I should be more active from here on out. I would also say Jack Rudd would probably be a better lurker exile if that's your sole reason.

Aright, at least I got a reason from someone.

So it is said - I disagree. I would take Town!Dylan in Lylo over anyone playing this game.

I will take this as a massive compliment. Thanks.

[Dylan32]

No idea who's on which side, here.

Vote: SpaceAnemone just to add variety to the mix of votes.

Yeah I don't like this vote, but the fact it's his first game makes it probably slightly new!town trying to be helpful rather than scum distracting away from viable wagons.

[faust]

Vote Count 1.11

Robz888 (1): EFHW
MiX (2): ashersky, SpaceAnemone
EFHW (3): A Drowned Kernel, Dylan32, Swowl
Dylan32 (2): WestCoastDidds, MiX
Awaclus (2): scolapasta, Robz888
Swowl (1): Awaclus
SpaceAnemone (1): Jack Rudd

Not Voting (1): LaLight

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to exile. Day 1 ends March 25, 2021, 03:30:00 am. This is in less than 2 hours.

[Swowl]

I will take this as a massive compliment. Thanks.

meant as such. Don't get me wrong, you could be skum, literally no read on you this game so far. But Mix's reason for voting you is trash.

[Swowl]

i mean are we gonna do something here or can I go to bed? there is like an hour to DL and it is reading as I am the only person viewing the thread...

[Swowl]

Unvote

50 minutes to DL

[Awaclus]

Unvote

50 minutes to DL

Vote: Swowl

[Swowl]

Unvote

50 minutes to DL

Vote: Swowl

There is this little corner of my heart that is reserved specifically for you.

[Swowl]

If yall try and say there is not a voting restriction or something keeping you from posting right now there will be just absolutely no Christmas cards for anyone this year. And my dog in a santa hat is fucking adorable, so jokes on you.

[LaLight]

I am here for DL for once and literally can not do anything. Although, I would not be fully opposed to no exile

vote: no exile

[LaLight]

the only vote i am able to do!

[Swowl]

Lalight gets an adorable card of Toby.

[Swowl]

next person gets toby as a leprechaun wearing shamrocks for ears.

[Swowl]

I have like 20 of these ready to go... this turnout is super disapointing... we are not even close to Turkey Toby, which is like not as good as Santa Toby, but let's say def better than like... Pumpkin Toby.

[Swowl]

Easter Toby is up there.
Honestly my favorite is Independence Day Toby, but that is because I just dress him up as Will Smith and no one gets it.

[faust]

Day 1 Final Vote Count

Robz888 (1): EFHW
MiX (2): ashersky, SpaceAnemone
EFHW (2): A Drowned Kernel, Dylan32
Dylan32 (2): WestCoastDidds, MiX
Awaclus (2): scolapasta, Robz888
Swowl (1): Awaclus
SpaceAnemone (1): Jack Rudd

Not Voting (2): LaLight, Swowl

With 13 alive, it took 7 to exile.

[Swowl]

... is the thread locked?

[faust]

Shock set in on Galactica after the assassination attempt. Are there more of them hiding among you? What else do you need to be prepared for? And how will you be able to tell whether your friends are secretly Cylons?

Noone was exiled.

Night 1 begins now and lasts for 48 hours. Night actions are due within 36 hours. Note that the following executive order is in place:

Curfew
For any action a player takes the following Night, they will take one fewer vote to exile on the Day after.

THREAD LOCKED!

[faust]

Friendly reminder: The Night action deadline is in 4 hours.

[faust]

The remaining leader of humanity fighting for her life, tensions on Galactica ran even higher than normal. The crew was just waiting for the next strike, not knowing where, or from whom. Surely the Cylons wouldn't stop here?

Noone has been incapacitated at Night.

The best scientific minds of the fleet have been hard at work to find a way of distinguishing human from Cylon. Now, their machine has been revealed. Hopefully this will provide a way to unmask the hidden enemy.

From now on, each Day, one player may be tested in the Cylon testing machine. Any player may type Undergo testing in the game thread, and this will instantly yield a result of either human or Cylon. After one player did this, no further players may be tested that Day. Results are not guaranteed to be accurate.

Shuffle the following card into the Executive Order deck:

Mandate testing

Pick another player. The next Cylon test available will be performed on that player, if they are still alive by that time.

Day 2 begins! Thread unlocked!

Vote Count 2.0

Not Voting (13): Jack Rudd, SpaceAnemone, WestCoastDidds, MiX, EFHW, scolapasta, LaLight, Dylan32, A Drowned Kernel, Swowl, Robz888, ashersky, Awaclus

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to exile. Day 2 ends April 03, 2021, 06:00:00 am.

[LaLight]

right-o

this might come unexpected to you, but

I can not vote nor be voted

vote: WestCoastDidds

[LaLight]

request vote count

[MiX]

right-o

this might come unexpected to you, but

I can not vote nor be voted

vote: WestCoastDidds

Gasp

So I presume the turning point of D2 was the Cylon testing machine? It even added an order card.

What do we do now?

[LaLight]

right-o

this might come unexpected to you, but

I can not vote nor be voted

vote: WestCoastDidds

Gasp

So I presume the turning point of D2 was the Cylon testing machine? It even added an order card.

What do we do now?

i would presume waiting for everyone in case someone has some cool info to discuss

[A Drowned Kernel]

right-o

this might come unexpected to you, but

I can not vote nor be voted

vote: WestCoastDidds

Gasp

So I presume the turning point of D2 was the Cylon testing machine? It even added an order card.

What do we do now?

Does anyone benefit from knowing whether they're a cylon?

[Awaclus]

I don't have anything cool to discuss.

[WestCoastDidds]

right-o

this might come unexpected to you, but

I can not vote nor be voted

vote: WestCoastDidds

Gasp

So I presume the turning point of D2 was the Cylon testing machine? It even added an order card.

What do we do now?

Does anyone benefit from knowing whether they're a cylon?

That’s an interesting question. Are there flavor reasons why discovering someone is a cyclon were important?  Since it is irrelevant to our alignment (that is my sense anyway) I don’t see how it would matter for most folks. But I admittedly know very little about the flavor.

[WestCoastDidds]

I do not have anything cool to discuss

[EFHW]

The new test might help scum, if their powers work selectively on cylons or humans.

[ashersky]

I want to use it.  Could preemptively do it now, but asking instead. 

[A Drowned Kernel]

Oh and FYI I'm hated today

I want to use it.  Could preemptively do it now, but asking instead. 

I don't have any issue with you using it

[ashersky]

Also, I know this is like way late into however long this current return to f.ds mafia has been for me, but Swowl used to be someone else, right?

I have zero recollection of who that might be.  Zero.  None. 

[ashersky]

Oh and FYI I'm hated today

I want to use it.  Could preemptively do it now, but asking instead. 

I don't have any issue with you using it

Exactly Hated x1?  I suppose if it were more, you’d specify.

[ashersky]

The new test might help scum, if their powers work selectively on cylons or humans.

True, but that’s at the risk of the tested.  (By the way, I have a funny story about being a testtaker with a friend and him using the not-real-word “testees” to describe us.)

[EFHW]

I missed the part about testing oneself, not others. Wondered how we were possibly going to agree on the latter.

[EFHW]

Let's wait until everyone has posted. Then if no one has a stronger reason I'm fine with ash using it. I wonder what the accuracy rate is.

[EFHW]

Question about mandate testing-what is the timing of the test?

[MiX]

Also, I know this is like way late into however long this current return to f.ds mafia has been for me, but Swowl used to be someone else, right?

I have zero recollection of who that might be.  Zero.  None.

Swowl was DatSwan before Didds baptized him with a new bird. This aventure is doccumented somewhere in a Drunk Mafia thread.

I'm okay with you being tested, but remember the results aren't guaranteed.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Oh and FYI I'm hated today

I want to use it.  Could preemptively do it now, but asking instead. 

I don't have any issue with you using it

Exactly Hated x1?  I suppose if it were more, you’d specify.

Yes, due to the curfew

[WestCoastDidds]

Question about mandate testing-what is the timing of the test?

I think the mandate would only come into play if it shuffled up and the president selected it

[MiX]

Question about mandate testing-what is the timing of the test?

I think the mandate would only come into play if it shuffled up and the president selected it

This is correct. I bet the mandatory testing would be public at the start of the day after the order was chosen.

[WestCoastDidds]

Do we have an order for today?

[Robz888]

I say go ahead, ashersky. This is one of those things we could end up debating for forever.

[scolapasta]

Surprised no one has remarked yet on no one being incapacitated overnight. I forget who said it, but I guess we kind of are back to a D1 situation (yay.)

I will be unavailable most of the (real life) day today, so here are some quick thoughts.

I also am Hated x 1 (should we all report whether we are or not? or wait until we get further voted)

I'm ok with ash getting tested. Since it can be inaccurate, not sure how useful it really is anyway. I assume it's >50%, but it makes a big difference if it's 55 or 95.

I read the mandate as the next text, so if it gets declared before someone is tested, then it would be that day; if it's after, the next day.

Vote:Lalight (just to confirm what he claimed; I have no current reason to believe he is scum)

[MiX]

Do we have an order for today?

When faust gets here. I put in Isolate Colonial One, the others seem anti-town, and this one is pro-me, and I'm town.

[scolapasta]

Do we have an order for today?

When faust gets here. I put in Isolate Colonial One, the others seem anti-town, and this one is pro-me, and I'm town.

What were your choices? Did you discuss with ADK? (since you admonished mathdude for not discussing with you)

[MiX]

Do we have an order for today?

When faust gets here. I put in Isolate Colonial One, the others seem anti-town, and this one is pro-me, and I'm town.

What were your choices? Did you discuss with ADK? (since you admonished mathdude for not discussing with you)

Yes. My choices are not useful for town to know (frankly not scum either), and I would've chosen it regardless of the cards I drew.

That was really my way of getting a read on math. ADK is very experienced so I don't need to do that. Besides, I share everything about the presidency with them and I do follow what I told math myself.

[scolapasta]

Do we have an order for today?

When faust gets here. I put in Isolate Colonial One, the others seem anti-town, and this one is pro-me, and I'm town.

What were your choices? Did you discuss with ADK? (since you admonished mathdude for not discussing with you)

Yes. My choices are not useful for town to know (frankly not scum either), and I would've chosen it regardless of the cards I drew.

That was really my way of getting a read on math. ADK is very experienced so I don't need to do that. Besides, I share everything about the presidency with them and I do follow what I told math myself.

Of course it would be useful for town to know. It may still be worth not disclosing because of scum, but I can't imagine a scenario were it would not be at least minimally useful.

What does ADK being very experienced have to do with anything? It'd about not just making decision unilaterally. (trust me, we had 4 years of that).

[LaLight]

MiX, it is useful for town to know, because you might be scum.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Do we have an order for today?

When faust gets here. I put in Isolate Colonial One, the others seem anti-town, and this one is pro-me, and I'm town.

What were your choices? Did you discuss with ADK? (since you admonished mathdude for not discussing with you)

Yes. My choices are not useful for town to know (frankly not scum either), and I would've chosen it regardless of the cards I drew.

That was really my way of getting a read on math. ADK is very experienced so I don't need to do that. Besides, I share everything about the presidency with them and I do follow what I told math myself.

Of course it would be useful for town to know. It may still be worth not disclosing because of scum, but I can't imagine a scenario were it would not be at least minimally useful.

What does ADK being very experienced have to do with anything? It'd about not just making decision unilaterally. (trust me, we had 4 years of that).

MiX did ask my opinion about isolate vs. the other potential orders (without revealing exactly what he drew) so it wasn't exactly a unilateral decision

[WestCoastDidds]

Here is the text of Isolate Colonial One, in case there is anyone else who does not have them memorized:

"Any action targeting the President tonight will fail."

[EFHW]

Question about mandate testing-what is the timing of the test?

I think the mandate would only come into play if it shuffled up and the president selected it

I know, so would it go into play right then?

[MiX]

MiX, it is useful for town to know, because you might be scum.

Okay. I had Isolate Colonial One, Prioritize, and Mandatory Testing.

What does ADK being very experienced have to do with anything? It'd about not just making decision unilaterally. (trust me, we had 4 years of that).

It means that I don't feel like forcing them to make decisions through me will help them, or me.

Question about mandate testing-what is the timing of the test?

I think the mandate would only come into play if it shuffled up and the president selected it

I know, so would it go into play right then?

"The next cylon test..." oh, I see. Yeah I guess it could go in play the same day it's issued. That is very interesting.

Do you wanna ask faust that?

[Awaclus]

Surprised no one has remarked yet on no one being incapacitated overnight. I forget who said it, but I guess we kind of are back to a D1 situation (yay.)

I will be unavailable most of the (real life) day today, so here are some quick thoughts.

I also am Hated x 1 (should we all report whether we are or not? or wait until we get further voted)

I'm ok with ash getting tested. Since it can be inaccurate, not sure how useful it really is anyway. I assume it's >50%, but it makes a big difference if it's 55 or 95.

I read the mandate as the next text, so if it gets declared before someone is tested, then it would be that day; if it's after, the next day.

Vote:Lalight (just to confirm what he claimed; I have no current reason to believe he is scum)

That vote might not count because the format is wrong. Vote: Lalight

[Swowl]

Ash - why do you wanna check yourself?
I would be fine with ash being checked, i would also be fine with me being checked.

Or mix, or adk, or Awaclus. Any of those.

Wheee was everyone at effing deadline btw?

[faust]

Vote Count 2.1

Not Voting (13): Jack Rudd, SpaceAnemone, WestCoastDidds, MiX, EFHW, scolapasta, LaLight, Dylan32, A Drowned Kernel, Swowl, Robz888, ashersky, Awaclus

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to exile. Day 2 ends April 03, 2021, 06:00:00 am.

[faust]

The following executive order has been enacted:

Isolate Colonial One
Any action targeting the President tonight will fail.

[SpaceAnemone]

Just checking in.. I haven't had time to go through this game in much more detail yet.

I'm fine with Ash doing the test if he's keen to volunteer. It would be useful to understand a bit more about how reliable its results are.

[ashersky]

undergo testing

[ashersky]

Let’s see what happens. 

[faust]

ashersky is a Cylon.

[ashersky]

That doesn’t match my flavor name.

Ah well, I assume we should exile me to be safe?

[ashersky]

Vote: ashersky

From what I know based on my role QT text and the Wiki entry I found on my flavor, I should not be a Cylon.

Since I am, I have to assume that makes me a danger to town, regardless of alignment.

Perhaps exile me with no further discussion is best to protect other town players and their info?

[ashersky]

Winning is all that matters to me, and exiling me seems to be the best way to do that based on my understanding of the game design and interaction with flavor.

Please, no one else post anything but votes for me.  Giving away any further info can hurt town if mafia wants to know it.

I will full claim now to help with everyone trying to figure out how this game works.

See you in the next game!

[ashersky]

My flavor is Galen Tyrol.  While in the show Galen is a military member, highest ranking NCO on board by the end of the show, in the game I am Civilian, which makes zero flavor sense but must make some sort of mechanics sense.

I have two powers, one which I will not explain but can be easily explained after I am dead.  The other is a basic recharger — target someone and give them a shot of a power they already have.  Fairly useless, but I guess fits with the mechanic flavor character.

Without revealing too much on character arc, I cared about human/cylon and wanted to find out for that.

I think that’s all I can share.  You’ll see two powers in my flip.

I have crap reads and can’t even point you in a direction. I still think MiX is mafia, but don’t really know about anyone else.

[ashersky]

Good luck everyone!

[ashersky]

Oh, also, my qt says human-aligned, but given Awaclus’s claim of alignment changes in the game, I don’t think we can trust that information.

(I realize that the mod-confirmed cylon result on myself could be a mod lie per the power explanation.  Without knowing the odds of that, even if we assume only 50/50, that’s a 50% chance I am actually mafia, even if I don’t know it.  That’s just way too high a percentage to ignore.)

[ashersky]

If I am a Cylon, which is different than alignment, we still absolutely must exile me.

It is unlikely that “Town-aligned Mafia” exists.  Even if being a member of the mafia is separate from being mafia-aligned, it is just very hard to reconcile.

[ashersky]

Sorry for stream of consciousness posting, but want to dump all thoughts in thread before enough people show up to hammer.  Should give everyone plenty to think about overnight and plenty to talk about on D3.

[ashersky]

Again, I cannot stress strongly enough that I truly believe any town player posting anything but a vote is playing directly against their win con.  More info from a player other than myself can only help mafia.  Since I am basically just twilight posting, it’s different.

Yes, my info will help mafia sort some stuff out on the setup, perhaps.  But they already have way more info (I assume) than players who received town-aligned QTs.  I’m hopeful that the information I’m providing helps the other real town players figure stuff out.

I guess I’m also hopeful that being exiled will reveal whatever my true alignment is so I know who to cheer for in the speccy. 

[ashersky]

Just checking in.. I haven't had time to go through this game in much more detail yet.

I'm fine with Ash doing the test if he's keen to volunteer. It would be useful to understand a bit more about how reliable its results are.

In response to this, the only way to know is exile, maybe?  The result does not match my flavor.  It does not match what I imagine my alignment to be.  It could be a lie, or just as easily I don’t know my true self.

I’m only doing what I can do, which is play toward the win con I think I have, which is town-aligned. 

[ashersky]

Although mathdude’s flip revealed nothing, so I assume mine won’t either.

I did notice a HUGE difference though that I think supports the possibility that I’m not actually human-aligned. 

For town-confirmed players, of whom we only have one, playername, flavorname, and alignment were all green.

In my QT, only one was green.  The rest were the neutral bold black, which is standard mod formatting for “unknown” data points.

Man, I’m an idiot for not noticing that in the first place...

[ashersky]

Welp, if I’m secretly Cylon-aligned as I suspect, I’m not helping my faction out.  Although it could just be much bigger than a normal mafia.

[ashersky]

Reflecting back on the “results could be wrong” portion of the examination thing, a greater than 50% chance of a lie seems too close to BM for faust’s style.  I feel like we can safely assume 50/50 as worse case.  Like, a 90% chance of a lie seems like a super yucky mechanic.

[ashersky]

Hmmm...I’ve got nothing else at this point.

As mentioned, not much on reads.  If I had to pick mafia right now, it’s MiX.  Choosing the self-serving power is super mafia-y.

Awaclus revealing the mathdude stuff was towny because he basically didn’t have to, right?  I could see mafia revealing a fake story to try for cred, but that’s too much trouble at that point, in my opinion.

LaLight, maybe Swowl seem towny?  Or just quiet.

No one else stands out.

[ashersky]

I’ll check back in later — if not enough players have checked in to vote, i might post more if anything comes to me.

Otherwise, see you next game!

[Awaclus]

This is ridiculous, there's no guarantee that canon flavor matches game flavor and we don't have any idea how the machine works except that we know the results aren't reliable.

[Awaclus]

For town-confirmed players, of whom we only have one, playername, flavorname, and alignment were all green.

In my QT, only one was green.  The rest were the neutral bold black, which is standard mod formatting for “unknown” data points.

That's how it is in my QT, too. I don't think it means anything.

[MiX]

ashersky is a Cylon.

Boo.

Can anyone confirm this is accurate?

[MiX]

Having read all that, ash is clearly town.

Everyone needs to talk. Do not vote ash, feel free to vote other people. We cannot trust this result like that.

I have more thoughts on this, but everyone should check in and see the result of the test, and ash's fullclaim, before we decide on a course of action.

Welp, if I’m secretly Cylon-aligned as I suspect, I’m not helping my faction out.  Although it could just be much bigger than a normal mafia.

Being "secretly cylon-aligned" is bastard. However, the non-bastard equivalent is not, you could have an Awaclus-like ability to turn scum. But that's only if you are a cylon.

[MiX]

My flavor is Galen Tyrol.  While in the show Galen is a military member, highest ranking NCO on board by the end of the show, in the game I am Civilian, which makes zero flavor sense but must make some sort of mechanics sense.

I have two powers, one which I will not explain but can be easily explained after I am dead.  The other is a basic recharger — target someone and give them a shot of a power they already have.  Fairly useless, but I guess fits with the mechanic flavor character.

I think mechanics are civilians.

If I am a Cylon, which is different than alignment, we still absolutely must exile me.

It is unlikely that “Town-aligned Mafia” exists.  Even if being a member of the mafia is separate from being mafia-aligned, it is just very hard to reconcile.

I agree with the first statement.

You're town. You are very much town. If you're a cylon, you might have Awaclus' ability to randomly be able to turn scum.

I did notice a HUGE difference though that I think supports the possibility that I’m not actually human-aligned. 

For town-confirmed players, of whom we only have one, playername, flavorname, and alignment were all green.

In my QT, only one was green.  The rest were the neutral bold black, which is standard mod formatting for “unknown” data points.

Man, I’m an idiot for not noticing that in the first place...

Clearly you got the same coloring as anyone else. In fact, you would've gotten more colors if faust was trying to decieve you, not less Nevertheless, that would be bastard.

Reflecting back on the “results could be wrong” portion of the examination thing, a greater than 50% chance of a lie seems too close to BM for faust’s style.  I feel like we can safely assume 50/50 as worse case.  Like, a 90% chance of a lie seems like a super yucky mechanic.

I assume it's 50% wrong, which means completely inaccurate. Of course this can't be the case, but I think that's how we should look at the info if no one has anything indicating the contrary.

[A Drowned Kernel]

I seriously doubt ash is secretly scum aligned but was told he is was town. If that turns out to be true then honestly, I probably won't play in the remaining games

I'm much more inclined to mix's view that scum might have the ability to turn cylon players. That sounds like a one-shot ability to me, though, so I don't know that exiling ash is a must

[faust]

For town-confirmed players, of whom we only have one, playername, flavorname, and alignment were all green.

In my QT, only one was green.  The rest were the neutral bold black, which is standard mod formatting for “unknown” data points.

Note that this is in violation of rule 1.1 (aka the "no quoting" rule). As a result, today only, ashersky will take one vote fewer to exile than he would have otherwise.

[Awaclus]

For town-confirmed players, of whom we only have one, playername, flavorname, and alignment were all green.

In my QT, only one was green.  The rest were the neutral bold black, which is standard mod formatting for “unknown” data points.

Note that this is in violation of rule 1.1 (aka the "no quoting" rule). As a result, today only, ashersky will take one vote fewer to exile than he would have otherwise.

Then, did I also violate the rule here?

For town-confirmed players, of whom we only have one, playername, flavorname, and alignment were all green.

In my QT, only one was green.  The rest were the neutral bold black, which is standard mod formatting for “unknown” data points.

That's how it is in my QT, too. I don't think it means anything.

[Awaclus]

Forgot to bold, the above was a question to faust

[faust]

For town-confirmed players, of whom we only have one, playername, flavorname, and alignment were all green.

In my QT, only one was green.  The rest were the neutral bold black, which is standard mod formatting for “unknown” data points.

Note that this is in violation of rule 1.1 (aka the "no quoting" rule). As a result, today only, ashersky will take one vote fewer to exile than he would have otherwise.

Then, did I also violate the rule here?

For town-confirmed players, of whom we only have one, playername, flavorname, and alignment were all green.

In my QT, only one was green.  The rest were the neutral bold black, which is standard mod formatting for “unknown” data points.

That's how it is in my QT, too. I don't think it means anything.

Yes. I decided that the person who instigated the discussion bears most of the blame, so only ashersky gets in-game consequences.

[ashersky]

Describing the colors is in no way a quotation as far as I can see.  So I’ll disagree there, but clearly don’t care one bit considering I need to be exiled anyway.

[ashersky]

I literally avoided writing any of the words in my QT at all.

Although, I’m fairly certain I see a pretty easy loophole to ensure my own exile if I need it.

[ashersky]

I seriously doubt ash is secretly scum aligned but was told he is was town. If that turns out to be true then honestly, I probably won't play in the remaining games

I'm much more inclined to mix's view that scum might have the ability to turn cylon players. That sounds like a one-shot ability to me, though, so I don't know that exiling ash is a must

If it’s the second, we don’t know anything about shots.  Could be a recruitment mechanic to win the game, seeking out all Cylons or something.  If so, I’m part of the mafia win condition.

[MiX]

I literally avoided writing any of the words in my QT at all.

Although, I’m fairly certain I see a pretty easy loophole to ensure my own exile if I need it.

Please don't exile yourself ash.

[ashersky]

@mix: my character is specifically given a military rank (on the wiki) and seems to get promoted by the end.  I haven’t watched the show, but sounds specifically military.

[ashersky]

I literally avoided writing any of the words in my QT at all.

Although, I’m fairly certain I see a pretty easy loophole to ensure my own exile if I need it.

Please don't exile yourself ash.

Well, technically it’d be a modkill.  I don’t plan to; I plan to convince all town players to vote for me.

[LaLight]

i need to have a town-aligned Cylon alive in the end of the game. anti-vote: ash

[MiX]

@mix: my character is specifically given a military rank (on the wiki) and seems to get promoted by the end.  I haven’t watched the show, but sounds specifically military.

Do they start the show with a military rank?

I literally avoided writing any of the words in my QT at all.

Although, I’m fairly certain I see a pretty easy loophole to ensure my own exile if I need it.

Please don't exile yourself ash.

Well, technically it’d be a modkill.  I don’t plan to; I plan to convince all town players to vote for me.

You don't need to do that. Just trust the rest of town.

i need to have a town-aligned Cylon alive in the end of the game. anti-vote: ash

What is that. Is that vote mechanical?

[LaLight]

i need to have a town-aligned Cylon alive in the end of the game. anti-vote: ash

which means, I presume, there's more than one, or it would be impossible. ash, don't please, try to help me if you can

[ashersky]

Google images shows my character in a military uniform as well.  Unless everyone wears those?

[LaLight]

@mix: my character is specifically given a military rank (on the wiki) and seems to get promoted by the end.  I haven’t watched the show, but sounds specifically military.

Do they start the show with a military rank?

I literally avoided writing any of the words in my QT at all.

Although, I’m fairly certain I see a pretty easy loophole to ensure my own exile if I need it.

Please don't exile yourself ash.

Well, technically it’d be a modkill.  I don’t plan to; I plan to convince all town players to vote for me.

You don't need to do that. Just trust the rest of town.

i need to have a town-aligned Cylon alive in the end of the game. anti-vote: ash

What is that. Is that vote mechanical?

no it's a figure of speech

[MiX]

Google images shows my character in a military uniform as well.  Unless everyone wears those?

That might be after the promotion.

PPE: Okay, cool.

i need to have a town-aligned Cylon alive in the end of the game. anti-vote: ash

Are you town?

[LaLight]

Google images shows my character in a military uniform as well.  Unless everyone wears those?

That might be after the promotion.

PPE: Okay, cool.

i need to have a town-aligned Cylon alive in the end of the game. anti-vote: ash

Are you town?

could you imagine how screwed up i would be if i would not have been town? of course i am. that's a part of my arc

[LaLight]

ash, flavor doesn't matter in case of who is and isn't a cylon, or that would've been too easy. you read human-aligned in qt? you're human aligned. test showed you're cylon? you're probably one.

that happened, let's exile scum now. WCD or MiX, pick one

[ashersky]

Per wiki, I’ve been serving on battleships since age 18.   An NCO is enlisted first, as far as I know, so to be an NCO on Galáctica at all, I had to have enlisted before the show started.

[LaLight]

ash, give me some kind of confirmation you're reading me.

[ashersky]

ash, flavor doesn't matter in case of who is and isn't a cylon, or that would've been too easy. you read human-aligned in qt? you're human aligned. test showed you're cylon? you're probably one.

that happened, let's exile scum now. WCD or MiX, pick one

I agree in the sense that just because a flavor character is/isn’t a Cylon on the show, they have to/can’t be here.  My point is that cylons are bad, regardless of who the flavor character is.  If this was HP mafia and Harry Potter was a Cylon, he’d be the evil version of Harry.

[ashersky]

ash, give me some kind of confirmation you're reading me.

I am reading your posts.

[LaLight]

there is a reason why i haven't read any flavor

[ashersky]

FYI - I did not take any actions so my only Hated counter is my (silly) rules infraction.

[ashersky]

there is a reason why i haven't read any flavor

Too busy?

[LaLight]

ash, flavor doesn't matter in case of who is and isn't a cylon, or that would've been too easy. you read human-aligned in qt? you're human aligned. test showed you're cylon? you're probably one.

that happened, let's exile scum now. WCD or MiX, pick one

I agree in the sense that just because a flavor character is/isn’t a Cylon on the show, they have to/can’t be here.  My point is that cylons are bad, regardless of who the flavor character is.  If this was HP mafia and Harry Potter was a Cylon, he’d be the evil version of Harry.

being a Cylon and being a Cylon-aligned is very different. Slytherin doesn't mean evil

[LaLight]

there is a reason why i haven't read any flavor

Too busy?

no. i think reading too much into it gives unneeded biases. i treat this game as mafia.

[LaLight]

test might be 0.01% correct for all we know and relying on it to exile is dumb

[ashersky]

Look, I've been trying to figure this game out since I got my QT.  I want to win, and continue winning, as I am sure everyone else does.  Research is part of that, given how integral the flavor appears to be, knowledge not being required notwithstanding.

So, I am a military non-cylon battleship mechanic who seems to be a pretty good guy, to a fault maybe.  But I'm actually a civilian, so that's confusing.  The rest makes sense, though, as my power matches my flavor, etc. etc.

I raise it D1 and see what info folks can offer.  Nothing of use, unfortunately.  I'm still confused.  Then Awaclus has this whole thing where he confirms alignment changes are a thing in this game.  Yes, he could just be lying mafia, but I don't read him that way, and if he is, he's doing very well at it.

So now I think, hey, alignment is fluid.  Maybe my confusion is based on incorrect assumptions I'm making from the get-go.  But still, no real breakthroughs on my end.

Then we get the cylon checker.  So I do that, and BAM, seems I could very well be Cylon.  And hey, that actually ALSO matches the mismatches in my role.  Military flavor but civilian in game.  So maybe human in flavor but cylon in game.

If those represent a pattern, the next flash of light is going to be my alignment, because that's all that's left.

I might be a secret Cylon-aligned player.  Solution: exile me.
I might be a Cylon that can be recruited/turned by Mafia, thereby presenting them with numbers and powers.  Solution: exile me.
I might be a Human with a erroneous result.  No impact on my alignment for anyone else.  Solution: maybe ignore it, unless you don't town read me anyway.
I might be a Cylon that is human-aligned.  Least likely, to me, but including all options.  Solution: ignore it.

These seem like the possible outcomes.  Two clearly require my exile, one is up in the air based on your reads, and one says to leave me alive.  That's like 2.5 in favor of exile.

My win con, as far as I know, is posted in the rules post.  I think I am very likely a threat to the human population per the win con.  I want to win, so we need to remove me.

If my win con could actually be different, I assume a few things:

--my win con is permanent once I die in game (so if I am exiled as town, I keep the town win con)
--at some point, some thing could trigger my win con to be revealed/changed/etc.

So, exiling me today I think would also allow me to stay town for the rest of the game.  So that's another reason/request from me for this.

[MiX]

As of right now, I have no reason to believe ash is in a different situation than all human-aligned players. We don't know if we're Cylons, and alignment changes have kinda been confirmed to exist by Awaclus. So all the points ash is making apply to everyone.

I might be a secret Cylon-aligned player.  Solution: exile me.
I might be a Cylon that can be recruited/turned by Mafia, thereby presenting them with numbers and powers.  Solution: exile me.
I might be a Human with a erroneous result.  No impact on my alignment for anyone else.  Solution: maybe ignore it, unless you don't town read me anyway.
I might be a Cylon that is human-aligned.  Least likely, to me, but including all options.  Solution: ignore it.

I might be scum. Solution: exile me.
I might be town. Solution: don't exile me.
I might be neither. Solution: probably exile me.

That's 1.5 in favor of exiling me. That says nothing about town actually wanting to exile me.

Honestly, you shouldn't think about the cylon result on yourself, since the results aren't guaranteed, anyone could've gotten that result, based on what we know now. That is not enough grounds to exile everyone.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Fyi your character is (spoiler alert) a cylon in the show but in terms of their "allegiance" would definitely be called human-aligned (from what I remember)

[Awaclus]

I raise it D1 and see what info folks can offer.  Nothing of use, unfortunately.  I'm still confused.  Then Awaclus has this whole thing where he confirms alignment changes are a thing in this game.  Yes, he could just be lying mafia, but I don't read him that way, and if he is, he's doing very well at it.

What I have confirmed is that I was explicitly told of a voluntary choice to change my alignment. I have not confirmed that we have a lying mod and involuntary alignment changes, and because this is not a bastard game, it seems fairly safe to assume we have neither of those.

[LaLight]

I raise it D1 and see what info folks can offer.  Nothing of use, unfortunately.  I'm still confused.  Then Awaclus has this whole thing where he confirms alignment changes are a thing in this game.  Yes, he could just be lying mafia, but I don't read him that way, and if he is, he's doing very well at it.

What I have confirmed is that I was explicitly told of a voluntary choice to change my alignment. I have not confirmed that we have a lying mod and involuntary alignment changes, and because this is not a bastard game, it seems fairly safe to assume we have neither of those.

this is actually an amazing point. i don't think alignment can change if you weren't informed from the beginning, or given a choice in a non-bastard game

[Awaclus]

Actually let's see if we can get a mod confirmation for that.

Can the game contain involuntary alignment changes?

Can the game contain alignment changes where the player is not informed of their alignment changing?

Can the game contain mod-provided information that is false, without it being explicitly mentioned that it could be false?

[Jack Rudd]

Further confirmation that LaLight is Helo, whatever in-game thing that might mean. (Thematically, this would represent his determination to keep Athena alive.)

[faust]

Can the game contain involuntary alignment changes?

Can the game contain alignment changes where the player is not informed of their alignment changing?

Can the game contain mod-provided information that is false, without it being explicitly mentioned that it could be false?

Yes. No. No.

[Awaclus]

Cool, so that's settled then. Can we go back to playing the game now?


Also,

Well, technically it’d be a modkill.

that's an awful idea, don't do it. Punishments can get arbitrarily harsh, and especially if you're breaking the rules intentionally to abuse the punishment system for an in-game advantage, I wouldn't completely rule out the possibility of a punishment like your entire alignment getting disqualified from the game.

[Swowl]

OK catching up.

My flavor is Galen Tyrol. 

Oh, also, my qt says human-aligned, but given Awaclus’s claim of alignment changes in the game, I don’t think we can trust that information.
(I realize that the mod-confirmed cylon result on myself could be a mod lie per the power explanation.  Without knowing the odds of that, even if we assume only 50/50, that’s a 50% chance I am actually mafia, even if I don’t know it.  That’s just way too high a percentage to ignore.)

In the show Galen is accused of being a Cylon in the first season. All the testing machine says is "Results are not guaranteed to be accurate."
Just saying, it could be based on flavor... not on chance. Like it was pre-decided if you checked yourself it would come back false-positive.

[Swowl]

I guess I’m also hopeful that being exiled will reveal whatever my true alignment is so I know who to cheer for in the speccy.

This is really only like super valuable if you are a cylon and you flip red. I guess there is something to be said if you are a cylon and green, but a mafia flip is what we need to sort shit out I think here the best.

[Swowl]

Can the game contain involuntary alignment changes?

Can the game contain alignment changes where the player is not informed of their alignment changing?

Can the game contain mod-provided information that is false, without it being explicitly mentioned that it could be false?

Yes. No. No.

Awaclus - Obv you fall into voluntary instead of non-voluntary bc you got the choice. But just confirming I have this correct... you did or did not do something to activate that decision?
Also, can you confirm that you specifically were informed pre-game that you could switch alignments?

[Swowl]

Fyi your character is (spoiler alert) a cylon in the show but in terms of their "allegiance" would definitely be called human-aligned (from what I remember)

wait, is this accurate? I don't remember him being a cylon.

[Swowl]

that happened, let's exile scum now. WCD or MiX, pick one

fairly small and un-related pool of players. why they up on your radar?

[Jack Rudd]

Fyi your character is (spoiler alert) a cylon in the show but in terms of their "allegiance" would definitely be called human-aligned (from what I remember)

wait, is this accurate? I don't remember him being a cylon.

He's one of the Final Five; his being a cylon is revealed at the end of Season 3.

[Awaclus]

Awaclus - Obv you fall into voluntary instead of non-voluntary bc you got the choice. But just confirming I have this correct... you did or did not do something to activate that decision?
Also, can you confirm that you specifically were informed pre-game that you could switch alignments?

I did not do anything to activate the decision, I only submitted a response to it. I was not informed pre-game that I could switch alignments, I was informed in the middle of day 1 after the thread was temporarily locked.

Also, I just realized that the mechanic that did my thing yesterday could match the description of "the game can contain involuntary alignment changes" because it actually had a 24-hour deadline for submitting a response, and it defaulted to having my alignment changed if I failed to submit one. I suppose in principle, if I had missed the deadline by accident, then the game would have contained an involuntary alignment change. In the light of that, I guess it was a pretty pointless question to ask faust, but at least the other questions served their purpose.

[EFHW]

ash, did the wiki not say that your character was a cylon? We've been pretty clear from the start that cylon/human identity does not necessarily correspond to cylon/human alignment. The civilian/military thing is odd, but maybe faust deviated from canon for modding reasons. Or he made a mistake.

[Swowl]

Awaclus - Obv you fall into voluntary instead of non-voluntary bc you got the choice. But just confirming I have this correct... you did or did not do something to activate that decision?
Also, can you confirm that you specifically were informed pre-game that you could switch alignments?

I did not do anything to activate the decision, I only submitted a response to it. I was not informed pre-game that I could switch alignments, I was informed in the middle of day 1 after the thread was temporarily locked.

Also, I just realized that the mechanic that did my thing yesterday could match the description of "the game can contain involuntary alignment changes" because it actually had a 24-hour deadline for submitting a response, and it defaulted to having my alignment changed if I failed to submit one. I suppose in principle, if I had missed the deadline by accident, then the game would have contained an involuntary alignment change. In the light of that, I guess it was a pretty pointless question to ask faust, but at least the other questions served their purpose.

OK I can actually parse that. I think it is fair to say that your choice was "voluntary". There has to be a deadline right? You were given a choice, that is voluntary... I don't think it is fair to call it not so if it goes random if you pass DL given.

It is just weird for me to have a character that can undergo an alignment change but not be informed of it start of game. You would know this though... I was/am thinking it is possible that you picked option 2 and just gave all the info correctly, yet lied about the choice. But given that the cylon-checker-thing also may have a mechanic that gives % chances, and that is mod confirmed... I suppose I am inclined to believe you.

[WestCoastDidds]

Was there a time you didn't believe Awaclus, Swowl? I felt like he was being forthcoming.

I am not sure how I feel about exiling Ashersky.

I am puzzled about why LaLi needs to have a cylon alive to win, and its messing with my head.

[ashersky]

ash, did the wiki not say that your character was a cylon? We've been pretty clear from the start that cylon/human identity does not necessarily correspond to cylon/human alignment. The civilian/military thing is odd, but maybe faust deviated from canon for modding reasons. Or he made a mistake.

It did not.  I was very confused by Jack Rudd's explanation, so I found a new wiki.

Fyi your character is (spoiler alert) a cylon in the show but in terms of their "allegiance" would definitely be called human-aligned (from what I remember)

wait, is this accurate? I don't remember him being a cylon.

He's one of the Final Five; his being a cylon is revealed at the end of Season 3.

Is this from a different show?  I may have been on a miniseries focused page.

[ashersky]

This is the background I read:

Galen Tyrol, often referred to as "Chief", is the highest ranking NCO remaining aboard Galactica. He served aboard battlestars from the age of eighteen, including Columbia, Atlantia, and Pegasus (Resistance). He has served under William Adama on Galactica for five years (Litmus), and has considerable respect for the Commander - a feeling that is reciprocated. Indeed, he admires Adama to such a degree that he has modeled his own style of leadership on that of Adama: firm, fair, and willing to go to the fullest degree in support of his crew.

However, when people under his responsibility are injured, threatened or killed, Tyrol becomes rather irrational, angry, and reckless in his actions, to the point of further endangering his people or his reputation with senior officers. Prime examples of his lack of emotional control includes the scenes before the ship venting after the nuke hit and cursing Tigh in front of Commander Adama for the vent and loss of 85 of his people (Miniseries), and saving a mortally-wounded crewmate while leaving himself and Cally Henderson highly vulnerable in "Scattered". Tyrol's tryst with Sharon Valerii and a subsequent cover-up attempt in "Litmus" resulted in the jailing of Specialist Socinus, who was trying to protect Tyrol.

Originally leading Deck Crew 5, a team of 15 deckhands and specialists, since the Cylon attack he has become the most senior and experienced NCO on Galactica.

This is from a different, longer wiki I found just now, but basically is a copy/paste from the other.  I was actually working off of the wikipedia article on Galen.  I do see that in the wall of text, there is reference to the Five stuff.  That's my mistake in not reading all the way through, especially given my own thinking that it was important to do the research.

I assumed that having parents and being born and all that would preclude being a Cylon.  Having not watched the show, I did not know that Cylons were born the same way humans were, with parents and what not.  I thought they were like robots, manufactured and such.

So, much of my reaction was based on an incorrect understanding of my flavor character.  I still think exile is the best option.

[ashersky]

A note for writes of fan wiki entries: perhaps put the most important information about a character in the beginning.

[ashersky]

Cool, so that's settled then. Can we go back to playing the game now?

Isn't it settled that I am right?  Faust confirmed involuntary alignment changes can happen.  I would take his answers to mean that I am definitely town-aligned for as long as that is the only information I have, but that I may not always be town-aligned, and I may have no control over that.

[MiX]

I assumed that having parents and being born and all that would preclude being a Cylon.  Having not watched the show, I did not know that Cylons were born the same way humans were, with parents and what not.  I thought they were like robots, manufactured and such.

(Spoilers) The backstory is made up, and even Galen believes it's true. In the show, he doesn't know he's a cylon until later.

I don't think we should exile anyone with Galen as their character. That seems...irrational.

Now, as Awaclus said, we could start playing the game now. Does anyone know where to start? Cause I don't.

Cool, so that's settled then. Can we go back to playing the game now?

Isn't it settled that I am right?  Faust confirmed involuntary alignment changes can happen.  I would take his answers to mean that I am definitely town-aligned for as long as that is the only information I have, but that I may not always be town-aligned, and I may have no control over that.

Isn't this true for everyone though? What makes you special?

[Swowl]

Was there a time you didn't believe Awaclus, Swowl? I felt like he was being forthcoming.

I am not sure how I feel about exiling Ashersky.

Yes. Forthcoming for Awaclus is super weird, so was pretty hesitant straight from the get go on that one. more of the "back of my mind concern.

[Swowl]

Cool, so that's settled then. Can we go back to playing the game now?

Isn't it settled that I am right?  Faust confirmed involuntary alignment changes can happen.  I would take his answers to mean that I am definitely town-aligned for as long as that is the only information I have, but that I may not always be town-aligned, and I may have no control over that.

quote-ish "the game cannot contain alignment changes that you are unaware of". have you been told you are town? cool. You are town. If you are skum... change to skum... whatever... you will be informed. That is black and white from faust's answer.

I guess I just don't get your concern? you are Town as you say. and it is 100% clear you will be informed if that changes.

This is me agreeing with mix (weird but true). It is no different than anyone else. You just have the spotlight rn. If you are town with a chance that you can become skum... you play for town. if you don't, then either you have additional information or your primary objective is not to win.

[Swowl]

+++
or you are confused - don't want to single anyone out, that should be added in.
but also, ash isn't confused.

[Swowl]

MiX - it is day 2. you said you would expand on the plan Day 2. You wanna talk about something, why not start there?

[Robz888]

I think a lot of people are getting unnecessarily confused. And I don't actually think it's that confusing!

Background: In Battlestar Galactica, there are two species: humans and Cylons. Humans are just humans. Cylons come in two kinds: Hulking killer machines called Centurions (think Terminator) and the kind that looks like people. There are 12 types of the people kind: All of these Cylons look like one of the 12. Five of the 12 are the Final Five, they are like the creators of all Cylons and there's only one copy of each. The other 7 form the basis of Cylon society, all the Cylons look like one of the 7. Sometimes our heroes figure out someone is a Cylon when they run across the person more than once: If there's another copy of a person, they are one of the 7!

Okay, none of that is particularly important. The important thing is that in the show, many of the Cylons don't know they are Cylons. Some copies are deliberately mind-wiped and sent among the humans to cause problems. The Final Five were all mind-wiped by the guy who is Cylon Model #1, for revenge.

Also, not all Cylons are evil, or working to advance the goals of the Cylons. Many of them end up aligned with the humans!

Okay, let's talk about this game. Obviously, faust would not set it up so that the exact same characters are Cylons, or that the exact same characters are Cylon-aligned. If that were the case, we would just mass flavor claim, game over. So I assume that just because you are playing a character who was a Cylon on the show does not automatically mean you are a Cylon here. That's what I was thinking, at least. If this is not the case, then I assume the mafia have fake claims?

Ash's character, Galen, is a Cylon, but is not Cylon-aligned, in BSG.

[scolapasta]

Catching up slowly.

A few thoughts:

• Turning points. It seems clear our D2 turning point was the addition of an executive order. I'd assumed that turning points would likely be anti town, but good to know they are not.

• ash being a Cylon. I've only played with ash a few games but he seems like he's smart and willing to try crazy things. I don't put it past him to be scum, suspect he is a cylon, and so want to get the test for that reason. Either is shows him as human, we he can sell as town, or as Cylon and then he plays the exile me story, knowing we won't. I'm not saying I think this is the case, but I do think it should stay on everyone's radar.

I am not opposed to exiling ash. I do think flavor wise it would make sense that those who's alignment can switch are more likely to be Cylons than humans. So generally I'd be more willing to trust a human than a cylon. I'll be the first to admit that this might be flavor bias. But there's got to be a reason there's a theme, right?

I am still wary of Awaclus. Like I tried saying before, but was dismissed with a "you're just repeating what I said" I find it suspicious that his choosing scum would lead to two fewer points. I think the best lies are surrounded by truth so I could very well see a good player like Awaclus revealing everything truthfully, except adding this small tidbit as a reason why he chose town, only to secretly having chosen scum.

At the very least, I'd suspect that Awaclus is a Cylon as well as ash, and as a balancing aspect of the game that one of them would become scum at some point. So if not Awaclus, then Ash; or vice versa.

Also, I do think Mix's choice of executive order was at least somewhat anti-town. Even if it is pro mix, again there are 72 hours to choose. A town move would've been to wait to see how the cylon detector worked out before choosing an order. (I guess this depends on what the other choices were of course, but if we assume the other D1 orders were discarded, there's a 75% chance the new order would've been one of the three.

[Awaclus]

I am still wary of Awaclus. Like I tried saying before, but was dismissed with a "you're just repeating what I said" I find it suspicious that his choosing scum would lead to two fewer points. I think the best lies are surrounded by truth so I could very well see a good player like Awaclus revealing everything truthfully, except adding this small tidbit as a reason why he chose town, only to secretly having chosen scum.

It would lead to three fewer points. The difference between 5 points and 2 points is not 2.

[ashersky]

I think a lot of people are getting unnecessarily confused. And I don't actually think it's that confusing!

Background: In Battlestar Galactica, there are two species: humans and Cylons. Humans are just humans. Cylons come in two kinds: Hulking killer machines called Centurions (think Terminator) and the kind that looks like people. There are 12 types of the people kind: All of these Cylons look like one of the 12. Five of the 12 are the Final Five, they are like the creators of all Cylons and there's only one copy of each. The other 7 form the basis of Cylon society, all the Cylons look like one of the 7. Sometimes our heroes figure out someone is a Cylon when they run across the person more than once: If there's another copy of a person, they are one of the 7!

Okay, none of that is particularly important. The important thing is that in the show, many of the Cylons don't know they are Cylons. Some copies are deliberately mind-wiped and sent among the humans to cause problems. The Final Five were all mind-wiped by the guy who is Cylon Model #1, for revenge.

Also, not all Cylons are evil, or working to advance the goals of the Cylons. Many of them end up aligned with the humans!

Okay, let's talk about this game. Obviously, faust would not set it up so that the exact same characters are Cylons, or that the exact same characters are Cylon-aligned. If that were the case, we would just mass flavor claim, game over. So I assume that just because you are playing a character who was a Cylon on the show does not automatically mean you are a Cylon here. That's what I was thinking, at least. If this is not the case, then I assume the mafia have fake claims?

Ash's character, Galen, is a Cylon, but is not Cylon-aligned, in BSG.

This is a very useful explanation of the flavor.  Thank you.

[ashersky]

• ash being a Cylon. I've only played with ash a few games but he seems like he's smart and willing to try crazy things. I don't put it past him to be scum, suspect he is a cylon, and so want to get the test for that reason. Either is shows him as human, we he can sell as town, or as Cylon and then he plays the exile me story, knowing we won't. I'm not saying I think this is the case, but I do think it should stay on everyone's radar.

This is a good point to raise.  I think I see it coming most often from my mafia partners, not from town.

Also, after reading more wiki pages, it appears my reaction to finding out I was a Cylon was a pretty good approximation of the actual character arc on the show.  Fear, disbelief, suicidal tendencies, etc.  I guess I could have planned all of that as well.

I think scola is a good exile option after me, regardless of my flip.

[ashersky]

Cool, so that's settled then. Can we go back to playing the game now?

Isn't it settled that I am right?  Faust confirmed involuntary alignment changes can happen.  I would take his answers to mean that I am definitely town-aligned for as long as that is the only information I have, but that I may not always be town-aligned, and I may have no control over that.

quote-ish "the game cannot contain alignment changes that you are unaware of". have you been told you are town? cool. You are town. If you are skum... change to skum... whatever... you will be informed. That is black and white from faust's answer.

I guess I just don't get your concern? you are Town as you say. and it is 100% clear you will be informed if that changes.

This is me agreeing with mix (weird but true). It is no different than anyone else. You just have the spotlight rn. If you are town with a chance that you can become skum... you play for town. if you don't, then either you have additional information or your primary objective is not to win.

I agree with you that I am town right now (assuming faust hasn't told me I am now mafia).  My prior worry about being mafia without knowing it may not have been clear.  If I am "trigger-able" for lack of a better word, then I am actually a threat to town, not an asset.  If mafia can flip my alignment, against my will no less, you can't leave me around to affect the numbers.  An exiled town is 1 million percent better than an additional mafia.  Right?

Random numbers:  10 players, 3 mafia, 7 town.  You are given a choice:  Tomorrow, there are 3 mafia and 6 town OR there are 4 mafia and 6 town.

These are literally the only choices to consider here when it comes to exiling a player who can be flipped.

Hence my argument that removing players from the game that we know are highly likely to be a threat to town even though they may be town-aligned is important.  Besides, you only have my word to go on that I'm town-aligned.

Unless you think I'm a Jester, or there's a Jester mechanic for overall arcs, I don't understand why no one supports me.  Run it through from town!ash and non-town!ash perspectives.  There are no scenarios where I'm doing this to hurt town.

[faust]

Vote Count 2.2

ashersky (1): ashersky

Not Voting (12): Jack Rudd, SpaceAnemone, WestCoastDidds, MiX, EFHW, scolapasta, LaLight, Dylan32, A Drowned Kernel, Swowl, Robz888, Awaclus

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to exile. Day 2 ends April 03, 2021, 06:00:00 am.

[ashersky]

I'll do it for you (declining to accept Jester mechanics in a non-BM game):

--Any solo 3rd party: would need to live to win, unless can align with a major faction, so probably is NOT solo 3rd party
--Any non-town multi-member faction: early in the game to self-sacrifice, losing numbers hurts the faction here, the faction gains zero cred.  Some mechanics could exist where a member of the faction being exiled results in gains for the others secretly, like more shots, extra NKs, etc.  If this is your major worry, I'd wonder why you are having those thoughts.
--Town: Explanations line up with town thinking, even disregarding the flavor confusion.

Did I miss anything?  We have three general options during the day:

--exile non-town players
--mis-exile town players
--exile town players who actively pose a threat to town even if they don't want to

Options 1 and 2 are judgement/reads-based, as we have no results to consider.  Option 3 is at least a guaranteed net positive for town, right?

[ashersky]

I'll ask it another way:

For players who do are not convinced I am town, why wouldn't you exile a mafia read?
For players who do read me as town, why wouldn't you believe me or support me?

[ashersky]

I assumed that having parents and being born and all that would preclude being a Cylon.  Having not watched the show, I did not know that Cylons were born the same way humans were, with parents and what not.  I thought they were like robots, manufactured and such.

(Spoilers) The backstory is made up, and even Galen believes it's true. In the show, he doesn't know he's a cylon until later.

I don't think we should exile anyone with Galen as their character. That seems...irrational.

Now, as Awaclus said, we could start playing the game now. Does anyone know where to start? Cause I don't.

Cool, so that's settled then. Can we go back to playing the game now?

Isn't it settled that I am right?  Faust confirmed involuntary alignment changes can happen.  I would take his answers to mean that I am definitely town-aligned for as long as that is the only information I have, but that I may not always be town-aligned, and I may have no control over that.

Isn't this true for everyone though? What makes you special?

Why is it irrational to exile Galen specifically?

I am special because we have the Cylon result from the thing today.  That is a data point we have on only me.  It is unique to me.  That makes me special.  So yes, the general statement can be true for all players, but is much more likely true for me, given the additional information we have.

I mean, imagine a mafia power that says "target a player -- if they are a Cylon, they will share your alignment."  Pretty straightforward, easy to implement, sensible, could balance a small faction starting size, etc.

They know I'm (probably) a Cylon.  Take me out before that can happen, man.

[ashersky]

Was there a time you didn't believe Awaclus, Swowl? I felt like he was being forthcoming.

I am not sure how I feel about exiling Ashersky.

I am puzzled about why LaLi needs to have a cylon alive to win, and its messing with my head.

Are you puzzled because of flavor stuff?

"Not sure" is close enough to "okay with it" to vote.

[Awaclus]

I'll ask it another way:

For players who do are not convinced I am town, why wouldn't you exile a mafia read?
For players who do read me as town, why wouldn't you believe me or support me?

You are cherry picking options here. You've considered these options:

1) You're scum and playing like an idiot, so it would be in town's best interests to go with your plan and exile you
2) You're town and know what you're doing, so it would be in town's best interests to go with your plan and exile you

You've excluded these options:

3) You're scum and know what you're doing, so it would hurt town to go with your plan and exile you
4) You're town and playing like an idiot, so it would hurt town to go with your plan and exile you

[MiX]

Why is it irrational to exile Galen specifically?

I am special because we have the Cylon result from the thing today.  That is a data point we have on only me.  It is unique to me.  That makes me special.  So yes, the general statement can be true for all players, but is much more likely true for me, given the additional information we have.

I mean, imagine a mafia power that says "target a player -- if they are a Cylon, they will share your alignment."  Pretty straightforward, easy to implement, sensible, could balance a small faction starting size, etc.

They know I'm (probably) a Cylon.  Take me out before that can happen, man.

Because exiling based on flavor name does not catch scum. And I'm townreading you.

The cylon testing machine is arbitrary: we should honestly ignore it for today. It's meaningless unless someone has a way to make it certain. Playing probabilities with faust is not the way to go here.

That power is a bit bastard, don't you think? Although I can't really rule it out from the realm of possibilities...

They know nothing, because the testing machine is arbitrary. Will they pick you with that hypothetical ability? Maybe. Will it work? Who knows.


Vote: scola, I don't know...does anyone know if Dylan is in VLA? They haven't talked today.

[MiX]

Also, I do think Mix's choice of executive order was at least somewhat anti-town. Even if it is pro mix, again there are 72 hours to choose. A town move would've been to wait to see how the cylon detector worked out before choosing an order. (I guess this depends on what the other choices were of course, but if we assume the other D1 orders were discarded, there's a 75% chance the new order would've been one of the three.

Would you have preferred me to force who was tested? I would've simply picked ash, as he wanted it. I can see military police force be a better order now, but I wasn't given that option.

[LaLight]

DatSwan is weirdly silent, I remember him being more vocal. I actually forgot he's in the game

[WestCoastDidds]

Was there a time you didn't believe Awaclus, Swowl? I felt like he was being forthcoming.

I am not sure how I feel about exiling Ashersky.

I am puzzled about why LaLi needs to have a cylon alive to win, and its messing with my head.

Are you puzzled because of flavor stuff?

"Not sure" is close enough to "okay with it" to vote.

No, I don’t know much about the flavor beyond a couple of episodes. I’m puzzled that we are having a discussion of the threat of cyclone, regardless of alignment, and LaLight says that he needs a cylon alive. Does he need that for his bonus points? Is he a cylon trigger-er? Is it third party? I can’t yet puzzle out a way that it is town.

Yes, I’m okay with voting for you, if that seems like the best option. But it would obviously be better if we could find mafia.

The testing machine had to have been added for a reason and the public nature of the test results have to do something. Who benefits from knowing cylon status?

[LaLight]

DatSwan is weirdly silent, I remember him being more vocal. I actually forgot he's in the game

oh, sorry a lot, Swowl

[LaLight]

Was there a time you didn't believe Awaclus, Swowl? I felt like he was being forthcoming.

I am not sure how I feel about exiling Ashersky.

I am puzzled about why LaLi needs to have a cylon alive to win, and its messing with my head.

Are you puzzled because of flavor stuff?

"Not sure" is close enough to "okay with it" to vote.

No, I don’t know much about the flavor beyond a couple of episodes. I’m puzzled that we are having a discussion of the threat of cyclone, regardless of alignment, and LaLight says that he needs a cylon alive. Does he need that for his bonus points? Is he a cylon trigger-er? Is it third party? I can’t yet puzzle out a way that it is town.

Yes, I’m okay with voting for you, if that seems like the best option. But it would obviously be better if we could find mafia.

The testing machine had to have been added for a reason and the public nature of the test results have to do something. Who benefits from knowing cylon status?

I already said this is my character arc, yes, bonus points

[Robz888]

I think I am more likely to believe ash is town at this point.

[scolapasta]

I am still wary of Awaclus. Like I tried saying before, but was dismissed with a "you're just repeating what I said" I find it suspicious that his choosing scum would lead to two fewer points. I think the best lies are surrounded by truth so I could very well see a good player like Awaclus revealing everything truthfully, except adding this small tidbit as a reason why he chose town, only to secretly having chosen scum.

It would lead to three fewer points. The difference between 5 points and 2 points is not 2.

Sure. I misread your post as "by 2", instead of "to 2". Doesn't really change my point. (except maybe to make me more doubtful)

[scolapasta]

• ash being a Cylon. I've only played with ash a few games but he seems like he's smart and willing to try crazy things. I don't put it past him to be scum, suspect he is a cylon, and so want to get the test for that reason. Either is shows him as human, we he can sell as town, or as Cylon and then he plays the exile me story, knowing we won't. I'm not saying I think this is the case, but I do think it should stay on everyone's radar.

This is a good point to raise.  I think I see it coming most often from my mafia partners, not from town.

Also, after reading more wiki pages, it appears my reaction to finding out I was a Cylon was a pretty good approximation of the actual character arc on the show.  Fear, disbelief, suicidal tendencies, etc.  I guess I could have planned all of that as well.

I think scola is a good exile option after me, regardless of my flip.

I'm not sure I get this logic:

• if I'm scum and you're scum (this idea), why would I suggest it and call you out? So that I get exiled, buying you cred? that seems risky.
• if I'm scum and you're town, but could possibly become scum, same as above?
• If I'm scum and you're town that can't convert - I guess I could do that here, but I still think a) I'd be painting a bigger target on by back for little reward. Since I think most of do think you're likely town.

And that last point is key, I do think you're likely town, at least for now. But I do think it's the kind of move you might make (you seem to agree), so wanted to at least brainstorm it.

I think my bigger point was ignored, that right now you and Awaclus are both likely Cylons and that there's a decent risk one or both of you have or will turn against town is scary.

[scolapasta]

I'll ask it another way:

For players who do are not convinced I am town, why wouldn't you exile a mafia read?
For players who do read me as town, why wouldn't you believe me or support me?

You are cherry picking options here. You've considered these options:

1) You're scum and playing like an idiot, so it would be in town's best interests to go with your plan and exile you
2) You're town and know what you're doing, so it would be in town's best interests to go with your plan and exile you

You've excluded these options:

3) You're scum and know what you're doing, so it would hurt town to go with your plan and exile you
4) You're town and playing like an idiot, so it would hurt town to go with your plan and exile you

While true, I don't see either 3 or 4 being as likely, so I wouldn't call it cherry picking, so much as reducing to the more likely options.

[scolapasta]

Why is it irrational to exile Galen specifically?

I am special because we have the Cylon result from the thing today.  That is a data point we have on only me.  It is unique to me.  That makes me special.  So yes, the general statement can be true for all players, but is much more likely true for me, given the additional information we have.

I mean, imagine a mafia power that says "target a player -- if they are a Cylon, they will share your alignment."  Pretty straightforward, easy to implement, sensible, could balance a small faction starting size, etc.

They know I'm (probably) a Cylon.  Take me out before that can happen, man.

Because exiling based on flavor name does not catch scum. And I'm townreading you.

The cylon testing machine is arbitrary: we should honestly ignore it for today. It's meaningless unless someone has a way to make it certain. Playing probabilities with faust is not the way to go here.

That power is a bit bastard, don't you think? Although I can't really rule it out from the realm of possibilities...

They know nothing, because the testing machine is arbitrary. Will they pick you with that hypothetical ability? Maybe. Will it work? Who knows.


Vote: scola, I don't know...does anyone know if Dylan is in VLA? They haven't talked today.

Voting me here with no explanation? (or is the fact that I'm suspicious of you and your executive order process (not necessarily the final choice) enough to cast a vote against me?)

[scolapasta]

I think I am more likely to believe ash is town at this point.

See my other post. I agree with this; but am wary of any known (or suspected, since test isn't 100% accurate) Cylons.

[Awaclus]

While true, I don't see either 3 or 4 being as likely, so I wouldn't call it cherry picking, so much as reducing to the more likely options.

Why is scum more likely to play like an idiot than town?

[Awaclus]

Vote: scolapasta

[Swowl]

Cool, so that's settled then. Can we go back to playing the game now?

Isn't it settled that I am right?  Faust confirmed involuntary alignment changes can happen.  I would take his answers to mean that I am definitely town-aligned for as long as that is the only information I have, but that I may not always be town-aligned, and I may have no control over that.

quote-ish "the game cannot contain alignment changes that you are unaware of". have you been told you are town? cool. You are town. If you are skum... change to skum... whatever... you will be informed. That is black and white from faust's answer.

I guess I just don't get your concern? you are Town as you say. and it is 100% clear you will be informed if that changes.

This is me agreeing with mix (weird but true). It is no different than anyone else. You just have the spotlight rn. If you are town with a chance that you can become skum... you play for town. if you don't, then either you have additional information or your primary objective is not to win.

I agree with you that I am town right now (assuming faust hasn't told me I am now mafia).  My prior worry about being mafia without knowing it may not have been clear.  If I am "trigger-able" for lack of a better word, then I am actually a threat to town, not an asset.  If mafia can flip my alignment, against my will no less, you can't leave me around to affect the numbers.  An exiled town is 1 million percent better than an additional mafia.  Right?

Random numbers:  10 players, 3 mafia, 7 town.  You are given a choice:  Tomorrow, there are 3 mafia and 6 town OR there are 4 mafia and 6 town.

These are literally the only choices to consider here when it comes to exiling a player who can be flipped.

Hence my argument that removing players from the game that we know are highly likely to be a threat to town even though they may be town-aligned is important.  Besides, you only have my word to go on that I'm town-aligned.

Unless you think I'm a Jester, or there's a Jester mechanic for overall arcs, I don't understand why no one supports me.  Run it through from town!ash and non-town!ash perspectives.  There are no scenarios where I'm doing this to hurt town.

1. lol on timing was gonna actually bring up Jester concept last night, but fairly certain that is a BM role
2. OK I agree with your logic. Except for the fact that you are leaving out the 3rd option, which is the option to pick 100% of the time as Town... or at least attempt to pick

Option 3 - 10 players, 7 town 3 mafia alive you are given a choice... tomorrow it is 6-3 or 6-4 by your logic.... false... we lynch skum today and it changes everything.

Just a fancy way of saying that while I think you have a point, it is not good enough for me to vote someone that is most likely town rather than attempt to exile skum.

[Swowl]

DatSwan is weirdly silent, I remember him being more vocal. I actually forgot he's in the game

oh, sorry a lot, Swowl

lol all good... I completely missed it actually.

[Jack Rudd]

Was there a time you didn't believe Awaclus, Swowl? I felt like he was being forthcoming.

I am not sure how I feel about exiling Ashersky.

I am puzzled about why LaLi needs to have a cylon alive to win, and its messing with my head.

Are you puzzled because of flavor stuff?

"Not sure" is close enough to "okay with it" to vote.

No, I don’t know much about the flavor beyond a couple of episodes. I’m puzzled that we are having a discussion of the threat of cyclone, regardless of alignment, and LaLight says that he needs a cylon alive. Does he need that for his bonus points? Is he a cylon trigger-er? Is it third party? I can’t yet puzzle out a way that it is town.

It's a flavour thing. Helo, the character, is (a) fully human-aligned throughout the entirety of the BSG series, and (b) in a long-term, loving relationship with Athena, a model 8 Cylon.

[scolapasta]

While true, I don't see either 3 or 4 being as likely, so I wouldn't call it cherry picking, so much as reducing to the more likely options.

Why is scum more likely to play like an idiot than town?

You ask a lot of questions, but don't answer when people ask you. Why is that?

Because scum needs to deceive to win which leads to more risky behavior; town can just play it safe, generally. At least on early days.

if you're purported switching to scum would have still been worth the same # of points, would you have switched?

[MiX]

While true, I don't see either 3 or 4 being as likely, so I wouldn't call it cherry picking, so much as reducing to the more likely options.

Why is scum more likely to play like an idiot than town?

Because scum needs to deceive to win which leads to more risky behavior; town can just play it safe, generally. At least on early days.

This sounds like an argument for town playing worse than scum: scum needs to play the game from the start and think things through, town doesn't feel any pressure early and can generally do nothing.

Voting me here with no explanation? (or is the fact that I'm suspicious of you and your executive order process (not necessarily the final choice) enough to cast a vote against me?)

If my executive order process leads to the correct conclusion 100% of the time, then it is no different than your so called ideal view of the executive order process.

I'm voting you because I think you're scum: last time you were coasting and generally pushing bad ideas and things that hurt town to think and talk about, and I think you're doing the same thing here.

[Awaclus]

You ask a lot of questions, but don't answer when people ask you. Why is that?

I'm against revealing information that could help scum (including why I'm voting for them). I don't ask such questions and don't like to answer them either. Other types of questions are fine.

Because scum needs to deceive to win which leads to more risky behavior; town can just play it safe, generally. At least on early days.

Whoever is winning can play it safe and whoever is losing needs to take risks[/quote]. Assuming the game is balanced, there is no reason for town or scum to take or avoid risks on early days.

if you're purported switching to scum would have still been worth the same # of points, would you have switched?

Overall, I felt like my chances of winning the game were probably about the same or maybe a bit better if I chose to remain town

[Awaclus]

That [/quote] was suppose to be an [/url].

[faust]

Dylan32 has been prodded.

[Dylan32]

Crap, didn't realize I hadn't said anything. I'm following along, but with this many people as I'm reading and catching up, every time I have a thought it seems like someone else had already said the thing before I got here, so I'm just having a hard time contributing in general.

In all the games I've played with Awaclus, this might be the first time I've read their posts and just thought they were town. Their usual playstyle (keeping stuff very close to the vest, low info shared) just has always made them hard to read, so this is weird.

I think Ash is probably telling the truth and doing what he thinks is best for town. I disagree with him that exiling him now would be best for town.

Would whoever it was (Swowl maybe?) that referenced scola's last scum game and playstyle drop the game that they were pulling that from? Or scola, just which game were you scum in? I might not have a ton of original thoughts, but I could go read that game to see if that was a fair comparison between the two games and look for other things that might point to scum!scola.

[MiX]

Crap, didn't realize I hadn't said anything. I'm following along, but with this many people as I'm reading and catching up, every time I have a thought it seems like someone else had already said the thing before I got here, so I'm just having a hard time contributing in general.

In all the games I've played with Awaclus, this might be the first time I've read their posts and just thought they were town. Their usual playstyle (keeping stuff very close to the vest, low info shared) just has always made them hard to read, so this is weird.

I think Ash is probably telling the truth and doing what he thinks is best for town. I disagree with him that exiling him now would be best for town.

Would whoever it was (Swowl maybe?) that referenced scola's last scum game and playstyle drop the game that they were pulling that from? Or scola, just which game were you scum in? I might not have a ton of original thoughts, but I could go read that game to see if that was a fair comparison between the two games and look for other things that might point to scum!scola.

Dropped.

Who do you think is scum? What do you think about the cylon testing machine result?

[Robz888]

Lets exile someone.

[MiX]

Lets exile someone.

Do you think Awaclus should be that someone? If so, why?

[Dylan32]

Crap, didn't realize I hadn't said anything. I'm following along, but with this many people as I'm reading and catching up, every time I have a thought it seems like someone else had already said the thing before I got here, so I'm just having a hard time contributing in general.

In all the games I've played with Awaclus, this might be the first time I've read their posts and just thought they were town. Their usual playstyle (keeping stuff very close to the vest, low info shared) just has always made them hard to read, so this is weird.

I think Ash is probably telling the truth and doing what he thinks is best for town. I disagree with him that exiling him now would be best for town.

Would whoever it was (Swowl maybe?) that referenced scola's last scum game and playstyle drop the game that they were pulling that from? Or scola, just which game were you scum in? I might not have a ton of original thoughts, but I could go read that game to see if that was a fair comparison between the two games and look for other things that might point to scum!scola.

Dropped.

Who do you think is scum? What do you think about the cylon testing machine result?

Thanks my dude.

I don't know yet. It feels like 80% of the conversation has been driven by the same 6 people, so there's a whole lot of people I just don't have a feel for this game yet. I think generally the most active people have been townie, but scola has pinged scum bells a little bit, hence why I want to look into the other game.

I think it's probably more likely true than false, with no basis for that belief other than the thought "If I were designing a mechanic to introduce useful but possibly incorrect info to the game, how would I do it?"  I appreciate Robz' flavor explanation a lot, and based on that I think there's probably very little we can conclude about alignment from species info. Having said that, if we hypothetically could know like here are the X players who are cylons, we would probably find most but probably not all of the cylon-aligned players in that pool. At least, that's my intuitive sense of things that could be completely wrong. Like if there were several humans early in the show that all worked against humanity to help the cylons, that could even be grounds for an entire human cylon-aligned team to start the legacy game, with cylon-aligned cylons being the characters that the next game's mafia team gets. To be clear, I don't think an all human mafia team is likely here, but within the context of a legacy game, maybe it could make sense. All that to say, I have no idea man lol.

I feel like I need to start watching this show. Not to have a grasp on flavor for this game, but if the show is as interesting as these game mechanics make it out to be, it'd be totally worth it.

[Dylan32]

Wait, I totally forgot scola was the scum that clinched the deal in the Space Gambit game... yeah, THAT's the game I wanted to have to relive...

[MiX]

Wait, I totally forgot scola was the scum that clinched the deal in the Space Gambit game... yeah, THAT's the game I wanted to have to relive...

You asked for it, not me! I am not rereading that game either.

[WestCoastDidds]

Sheesh, we should exile him now because that one still stings....

[Robz888]

We could exile scola just for being terrifying as scum that one time!

[WestCoastDidds]

Stone
Cold
Killer

[SpaceAnemone]

Still here! Apologies for being probably-proddable by now.

Did anyone who's commenting on Ash's situation already point out that there's a whole continuum (ish) of other incentives that aren't as "bastard" as a jester role, but that are mediated by the legacy game points? Like, maybe Ash can have extra points if he arranges a mixile of himself at some point, or something like that. I think there must be a way to phrase it that doesn't actually amount to playing against his faction. I'm not sure how such a game mechanic would fit with being the Chief, but I also think it's not outside the realms of possibility that faust could concoct something that way.

[MiX]

Still here! Apologies for being probably-proddable by now.

Did anyone who's commenting on Ash's situation already point out that there's a whole continuum (ish) of other incentives that aren't as "bastard" as a jester role, but that are mediated by the legacy game points? Like, maybe Ash can have extra points if he arranges a mixile of himself at some point, or something like that. I think there must be a way to phrase it that doesn't actually amount to playing against his faction. I'm not sure how such a game mechanic would fit with being the Chief, but I also think it's not outside the realms of possibility that faust could concoct something that way.

If ash got points for doing this, I think he would've said that. Wouldn't that make us more likely to exile him? But I don't think we should talk about our character arcs...that doesn't seem to help town, and it kinda pits us against each other.

[scolapasta]

Voting me here with no explanation? (or is the fact that I'm suspicious of you and your executive order process (not necessarily the final choice) enough to cast a vote against me?)

If my executive order process leads to the correct conclusion 100% of the time, then it is no different than your so called ideal view of the executive order process.

I'm voting you because I think you're scum: last time you were coasting and generally pushing bad ideas and things that hurt town to think and talk about, and I think you're doing the same thing here.

I disagree that even if it leads to the same result that it is no different. It could be, but the point is the opportunity to possibly learn something useful was there. And you chose to ignore it which to me feels anti town. But if I'm being fair, I don't think that means you're not town, because I would see you doing this and not thinking it was anti-town. So we'll just have to agree to disagree.

What ideas am I pushing that are bad ideas? or hurt town to think and talk about it? I call shenanigans on that.

My central idea:

Knowing flavor it seems to me at least very likely that being a Cylon is highly correlated to being scum, and being human is to being town. Obviously since species is separate than alignment, there will be some outliers, but that doesn't mean that known or suspected Cylons aren't more likely to be a threat. So expressing concern on ash (whom I do believe is currently town) and awaclus seems reasonable.

I just think that if both are cylons, then one will eventually be scum. So if Awaclus is in fact telling the truth*, then I can easily see ash eventually converting (involuntarily, maybe) to scum.

* I just don't see how given two choices that would be relatively equal, one would be penalized so much - making a difficult choice a virtual no brainer. Add to that that mathude was in fact not spared, something is wrong there. Maybe I'm on the wrong path, do you really believe it was all wrapped on in a nice little bow like that?

Of course there's a chance there both not scum. So I'd be fine scum hunting somebody else too while we wait to learn more. But as Dylan pointed out, it's really only the same people posting. So there's very little to go for jack, Robz swowl, WCD, space, EFHW, etc. the list goes on.

So without that, I'm still leaning towards reducing our risk with the probably cylons.

Do you disagree that ash and Awaclus are likely Cylons? or do you disagree that as Cylons that are likely to pose more of a risk than those with unknown species?

[scolapasta]

You ask a lot of questions, but don't answer when people ask you. Why is that?

I'm against revealing information that could help scum (including why I'm voting for them). I don't ask such questions and don't like to answer them either. Other types of questions are fine.

Maybe it's just a style thing then - I think that answering many of the questions you avoid helps town as much, if ont more, as it helps scum.

Because scum needs to deceive to win which leads to more risky behavior; town can just play it safe, generally. At least on early days.

Whoever is winning can play it safe and whoever is losing needs to take risks

. Assuming the game is balanced, there is no reason for town or scum to take or avoid risks on early days.
[/quote]

I'll disagree with this. I think anyone trying to be deceptive (which scum has to) has to worry more about creating a cohesive story, and that entails more risk.

if you're purported switching to scum would have still been worth the same # of points, would you have switched?

Overall, I felt like my chances of winning the game were probably about the same or maybe a bit better if I chose to remain town

I think this gets to my point - if the choice were balanced enough, then why does the "lesser" option offer fewer points, and so many at that? I could imagine 4 instead of 5, or that staying as town would lose points. Also because I think the game design would be more interesting that way. You'd have to sell why you chose the option that gave you fewer points. If the the choice were truly as you say, it's an easy sell, as witnessed by the fact that I seem to be the only one suspicious of this.

[scolapasta]

Crap, didn't realize I hadn't said anything. I'm following along, but with this many people as I'm reading and catching up, every time I have a thought it seems like someone else had already said the thing before I got here, so I'm just having a hard time contributing in general.

In all the games I've played with Awaclus, this might be the first time I've read their posts and just thought they were town. Their usual playstyle (keeping stuff very close to the vest, low info shared) just has always made them hard to read, so this is weird.

I think Ash is probably telling the truth and doing what he thinks is best for town. I disagree with him that exiling him now would be best for town.

Would whoever it was (Swowl maybe?) that referenced scola's last scum game and playstyle drop the game that they were pulling that from? Or scola, just which game were you scum in? I might not have a ton of original thoughts, but I could go read that game to see if that was a fair comparison between the two games and look for other things that might point to scum!scola.

That was a fun game! I might also suggest reading some of my town games too if you're really trying to intrerpret my play style.

[ashersky]

* I just don't see how given two choices that would be relatively equal, one would be penalized so much - making a difficult choice a virtual no brainer. Add to that that mathude was in fact not spared, something is wrong there. Maybe I'm on the wrong path, do you really believe it was all wrapped on in a nice little bow like that?

On this specific comment -- as a long-time mod and game designer, I understand your point there.  I think of it as "if I am going to introduce a decision into the game, if one option is always going to be chosen, does it even need to be a decision?"  If you had a role power that said "choose one: target a player and learn their alignment OR target a player and if they have the ability to NK, it will be disabled" then that seems like an interesting decision.  Maybe cop is favored, but there are ways to use the other one too.  But if the choices are cop or fruit vendor, the fruit vendor option is just so much harder to make useful that, unless you are building mechanics around fruit, it's not a decision worth building into the game.

So, if voluntary alignment switches are present, as Awaclus has claimed happened to him, the player needs to have incentives to do both that are fairly equal, or at least offer good reasons, to make the decision mean something.

[ashersky]

Shameless plug: decisions will present themselves in the upcoming Stargate Mafia, and they will be spicy!

[ashersky]

Still here! Apologies for being probably-proddable by now.

Did anyone who's commenting on Ash's situation already point out that there's a whole continuum (ish) of other incentives that aren't as "bastard" as a jester role, but that are mediated by the legacy game points? Like, maybe Ash can have extra points if he arranges a mixile of himself at some point, or something like that. I think there must be a way to phrase it that doesn't actually amount to playing against his faction. I'm not sure how such a game mechanic would fit with being the Chief, but I also think it's not outside the realms of possibility that faust could concoct something that way.

If ash got points for doing this, I think he would've said that. Wouldn't that make us more likely to exile him? But I don't think we should talk about our character arcs...that doesn't seem to help town, and it kinda pits us against each other.

For what it is worth, my character arc thing has no impact on the game at all (in the sense that if I'm successful or not doesn't actually relate to the game).

[ashersky]

Still here! Apologies for being probably-proddable by now.

Did anyone who's commenting on Ash's situation already point out that there's a whole continuum (ish) of other incentives that aren't as "bastard" as a jester role, but that are mediated by the legacy game points? Like, maybe Ash can have extra points if he arranges a mixile of himself at some point, or something like that. I think there must be a way to phrase it that doesn't actually amount to playing against his faction. I'm not sure how such a game mechanic would fit with being the Chief, but I also think it's not outside the realms of possibility that faust could concoct something that way.

I like this line of thinking (again, as a game designer), but it is hard to implement.  If I'm town and I actively work for a mis-exile for my own personal gain (as opposed to helping town, which is what I'm doing), there needs to be a corresponding benefit to town.

Now, could that corresponding benefit be "removes a Cylon from the game who could become mafia on Day 3" or something?  Yes!  Is that the case here?  Dunno.  I do not have information that supports any specific theories on how or when I will become mafia.

So, I am working for my own mis-exile solely for the benefit of town, which has a corresponding benefit for me (a win, and the points that come with that).

[ashersky]

Lets exile someone.

Definitely.  Choose the person who is closest to exile and vote for them.

[MiX]

Still here! Apologies for being probably-proddable by now.

Did anyone who's commenting on Ash's situation already point out that there's a whole continuum (ish) of other incentives that aren't as "bastard" as a jester role, but that are mediated by the legacy game points? Like, maybe Ash can have extra points if he arranges a mixile of himself at some point, or something like that. I think there must be a way to phrase it that doesn't actually amount to playing against his faction. I'm not sure how such a game mechanic would fit with being the Chief, but I also think it's not outside the realms of possibility that faust could concoct something that way.

I like this line of thinking (again, as a game designer), but it is hard to implement.  If I'm town and I actively work for a mis-exile for my own personal gain (as opposed to helping town, which is what I'm doing), there needs to be a corresponding benefit to town.

Now, could that corresponding benefit be "removes a Cylon from the game who could become mafia on Day 3" or something?  Yes!  Is that the case here?  Dunno.  I do not have information that supports any specific theories on how or when I will become mafia.

So, I am working for my own mis-exile solely for the benefit of town, which has a corresponding benefit for me (a win, and the points that come with that).

But why does it help town to exile town? I'm really not seeing this.

[ashersky]

Cool, so that's settled then. Can we go back to playing the game now?

Isn't it settled that I am right?  Faust confirmed involuntary alignment changes can happen.  I would take his answers to mean that I am definitely town-aligned for as long as that is the only information I have, but that I may not always be town-aligned, and I may have no control over that.

quote-ish "the game cannot contain alignment changes that you are unaware of". have you been told you are town? cool. You are town. If you are skum... change to skum... whatever... you will be informed. That is black and white from faust's answer.

I guess I just don't get your concern? you are Town as you say. and it is 100% clear you will be informed if that changes.

This is me agreeing with mix (weird but true). It is no different than anyone else. You just have the spotlight rn. If you are town with a chance that you can become skum... you play for town. if you don't, then either you have additional information or your primary objective is not to win.

I agree with you that I am town right now (assuming faust hasn't told me I am now mafia).  My prior worry about being mafia without knowing it may not have been clear.  If I am "trigger-able" for lack of a better word, then I am actually a threat to town, not an asset.  If mafia can flip my alignment, against my will no less, you can't leave me around to affect the numbers.  An exiled town is 1 million percent better than an additional mafia.  Right?

Random numbers:  10 players, 3 mafia, 7 town.  You are given a choice:  Tomorrow, there are 3 mafia and 6 town OR there are 4 mafia and 6 town.

These are literally the only choices to consider here when it comes to exiling a player who can be flipped.

Hence my argument that removing players from the game that we know are highly likely to be a threat to town even though they may be town-aligned is important.  Besides, you only have my word to go on that I'm town-aligned.

Unless you think I'm a Jester, or there's a Jester mechanic for overall arcs, I don't understand why no one supports me.  Run it through from town!ash and non-town!ash perspectives.  There are no scenarios where I'm doing this to hurt town.

1. lol on timing was gonna actually bring up Jester concept last night, but fairly certain that is a BM role
2. OK I agree with your logic. Except for the fact that you are leaving out the 3rd option, which is the option to pick 100% of the time as Town... or at least attempt to pick

Option 3 - 10 players, 7 town 3 mafia alive you are given a choice... tomorrow it is 6-3 or 6-4 by your logic.... false... we lynch skum today and it changes everything.

Just a fancy way of saying that while I think you have a point, it is not good enough for me to vote someone that is most likely town rather than attempt to exile skum.

My examples there were specifically if the game state didn't change via exile.  I guess we can expand on the 10 alive, 7v3 scenario:

--mis-exile normal town, NK, conversion: 4 v 4 the next day, game over
--no exile, NK, conversion: 5 v 4 the next day
--mis-exile normal town, NK, no conversion: 5 v 3 the next day
--mis-exile convertible town, NK: 5 v 3 the day day
--exile mafia, NK, conversion: 5 v 3 the next day
--no exile, NK, no conversion: 6 v 3 the next day
--exile mafia, NK, no conversion: 6 v 2 the next day

So, these options cover all probably outcomes, then, in order of worst to best case.  So, then, your options?

1) Take action to ensure the worst case scenario cannot happen, or
2) Take action to try to have the best case scenario happen

[ashersky]

Still here! Apologies for being probably-proddable by now.

Did anyone who's commenting on Ash's situation already point out that there's a whole continuum (ish) of other incentives that aren't as "bastard" as a jester role, but that are mediated by the legacy game points? Like, maybe Ash can have extra points if he arranges a mixile of himself at some point, or something like that. I think there must be a way to phrase it that doesn't actually amount to playing against his faction. I'm not sure how such a game mechanic would fit with being the Chief, but I also think it's not outside the realms of possibility that faust could concoct something that way.

I like this line of thinking (again, as a game designer), but it is hard to implement.  If I'm town and I actively work for a mis-exile for my own personal gain (as opposed to helping town, which is what I'm doing), there needs to be a corresponding benefit to town.

Now, could that corresponding benefit be "removes a Cylon from the game who could become mafia on Day 3" or something?  Yes!  Is that the case here?  Dunno.  I do not have information that supports any specific theories on how or when I will become mafia.

So, I am working for my own mis-exile solely for the benefit of town, which has a corresponding benefit for me (a win, and the points that come with that).

But why does it help town to exile town? I'm really not seeing this.

I just posted an explanation to your question, which I was working on while you posted.

[scolapasta]

* I just don't see how given two choices that would be relatively equal, one would be penalized so much - making a difficult choice a virtual no brainer. Add to that that mathude was in fact not spared, something is wrong there. Maybe I'm on the wrong path, do you really believe it was all wrapped on in a nice little bow like that?

On this specific comment -- as a long-time mod and game designer, I understand your point there.  I think of it as "if I am going to introduce a decision into the game, if one option is always going to be chosen, does it even need to be a decision?"  If you had a role power that said "choose one: target a player and learn their alignment OR target a player and if they have the ability to NK, it will be disabled" then that seems like an interesting decision.  Maybe cop is favored, but there are ways to use the other one too.  But if the choices are cop or fruit vendor, the fruit vendor option is just so much harder to make useful that, unless you are building mechanics around fruit, it's not a decision worth building into the game.

So, if voluntary alignment switches are present, as Awaclus has claimed happened to him, the player needs to have incentives to do both that are fairly equal, or at least offer good reasons, to make the decision mean something.

Thanks.

Would you agree that, as presented by Awaclus, the options seemed mismatched? Or am I the only one?

Also, thoughts on my theory that if there are starting two town Cylons, then there's a decent chance that circumstances will have one or the other become scum?

[ashersky]

I would point out that there are three options with the same net result in my scenario.  Mis-exiling me gives the same result as a correct exile and ensure a worse outcome doesn't happen.

[ashersky]

* I just don't see how given two choices that would be relatively equal, one would be penalized so much - making a difficult choice a virtual no brainer. Add to that that mathude was in fact not spared, something is wrong there. Maybe I'm on the wrong path, do you really believe it was all wrapped on in a nice little bow like that?

On this specific comment -- as a long-time mod and game designer, I understand your point there.  I think of it as "if I am going to introduce a decision into the game, if one option is always going to be chosen, does it even need to be a decision?"  If you had a role power that said "choose one: target a player and learn their alignment OR target a player and if they have the ability to NK, it will be disabled" then that seems like an interesting decision.  Maybe cop is favored, but there are ways to use the other one too.  But if the choices are cop or fruit vendor, the fruit vendor option is just so much harder to make useful that, unless you are building mechanics around fruit, it's not a decision worth building into the game.

So, if voluntary alignment switches are present, as Awaclus has claimed happened to him, the player needs to have incentives to do both that are fairly equal, or at least offer good reasons, to make the decision mean something.

Thanks.

Would you agree that, as presented by Awaclus, the options seemed mismatched? Or am I the only one?

Also, thoughts on my theory that if there are starting two town Cylons, then there's a decent chance that circumstances will have one or the other become scum?

I clearly think town Cylons can/will become mafia.  I'm trying to exile one.

Eh, Awaclus's explanations of the options didn't strike me as way off.  I'm sure he's leaving stuff out.  Also don't know the impact on character arc, which is another factor here.

I think he's just making the whole thing up or telling a partial truth.

[MiX]

My examples there were specifically if the game state didn't change via exile.  I guess we can expand on the 10 alive, 7v3 scenario:

--mis-exile normal town, NK, conversion: 4 v 4 the next day, game over
--no exile, NK, conversion: 5 v 4 the next day
--mis-exile normal town, NK, no conversion: 5 v 3 the next day
--mis-exile convertible town, NK: 5 v 3 the day day
--exile mafia, NK, conversion: 5 v 3 the next day
--no exile, NK, no conversion: 6 v 3 the next day
--exile mafia, NK, no conversion: 6 v 2 the next day

So, these options cover all probably outcomes, then, in order of worst to best case.  So, then, your options?

1) Take action to ensure the worst case scenario cannot happen, or
2) Take action to try to have the best case scenario happen

This is a false dichotomy: we should do neither of those things. We should...exile scum. Why on earth would this game change something as simple as that?

I would point out that there are three options with the same net result in my scenario.  Mis-exiling me gives the same result as a correct exile and ensure a worse outcome doesn't happen.

Stop. Counting. Results. Individually. Without a probability mapping of each scenario, counting up how many scenarios does this help town in is pointless. It merely serves as a distraction and it pushes scum narratives.

Vote: Space for not having actually talked about anything and only put forward a NAI thing (which is arguably a scum thing). And I guess scola can be town.

[MiX]

I clearly think town Cylons can/will become mafia.  I'm trying to exile one.

Awaclus is more likely to be a Cylon than you. Who are you voting?

[scolapasta]

OK, I'm ready to jump aboard the:

Vote: ash

wagon. I'm also ready to switch to Awaclus, based on everything I've said, but mostly want to avoid getting too late in the day and the crickets like we had D1. We don't haver the advantage of a Curfew to scare scum away from a NK. (assuming that it was that, and they weren't just blocked or stopped).

[EFHW]

faust said arc goals would be consistent with wincon. So shouldn't Awaclus have been offered a new goal if he chose scum?

Also, sid Awaclus need to say anything? I'll have to check later.

[Swowl]

OK, I'm ready to jump aboard the:

Vote: ash

wagon. I'm also ready to switch to Awaclus, based on everything I've said, but mostly want to avoid getting too late in the day and the crickets like we had D1. We don't haver the advantage of a Curfew to scare scum away from a NK. (assuming that it was that, and they weren't just blocked or stopped).

please give me a reason either of those people are skum. no sarcasm. everyone is talking, me included, about why they are not skum. why do you think they are?

[Dylan32]

faust said arc goals would be consistent with wincon. So shouldn't Awaclus have been offered a new goal if he chose scum?

Also, sid Awaclus need to say anything? I'll have to check later.

To your second question, yeah the flavor text pretty was straightforward in saying that Awaclus stabbed math, so regardless of what really happened, jumping out in front of it and providing the explanation first would probably have been seen as necessary for anyone in that spot.

[faust]

Vote Count 2.3

ashersky (2): ashersky, scolapasta
scolapasta (1): Awaclus
SpaceAnemone (1): MiX

Not Voting (9): Jack Rudd, SpaceAnemone, WestCoastDidds, EFHW, LaLight, Dylan32, A Drowned Kernel, Swowl, Robz888

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to exile. Day 2 ends April 03, 2021, 06:00:00 am.

[ashersky]

I clearly think town Cylons can/will become mafia.  I'm trying to exile one.

Awaclus is more likely to be a Cylon than you. Who are you voting?

Why is Awaclus more likely to be Cylon?  He didn't claim anything Cylon, right?

I have an actual result, imperfect as it may be.

[MiX]

I clearly think town Cylons can/will become mafia.  I'm trying to exile one.

Awaclus is more likely to be a Cylon than you. Who are you voting?

Why is Awaclus more likely to be Cylon?  He didn't claim anything Cylon, right?

I have an actual result, imperfect as it may be.

Well, the alignment-turning thing he claimed makes much more sense for a cylon.

The result...should be ignored, really.

[A Drowned Kernel]

vote: scola

we should not exile ash

[Awaclus]

I'll disagree with this. I think anyone trying to be deceptive (which scum has to) has to worry more about creating a cohesive story, and that entails more risk.

No it doesn't. You can create a cohesive story by posting as little as possible. The less you write, the fewer chances you have to make mistakes. It is not even remotely necessary for scum to do what ash is doing here just in hopes of getting some reverse-psychology towncred and ash is not stupid enough to think it is.

I think this gets to my point - if the choice were balanced enough, then why does the "lesser" option offer fewer points, and so many at that? I could imagine 4 instead of 5, or that staying as town would lose points. Also because I think the game design would be more interesting that way. You'd have to sell why you chose the option that gave you fewer points. If the the choice were truly as you say, it's an easy sell, as witnessed by the fact that I seem to be the only one suspicious of this.

I don't know, but here are some possible explanations:

• my arc is a lot easier to complete as scum, it's possible as town and not guaranteed as scum but it's a huge difference, so maybe it's there to compensate for that
• maybe the event was not scripted to happen on D1 but e.g. a day power did something that triggered it, in which case the design of the mechanic was not tailored for the situation in which it happened, making this discussion completely pointless
• maybe the purpose of the legacy points is not to measure your in-game performance by giving you more points for things that are more difficult, but something else (e.g. flavor related), in which case this discussion is also completely pointless
• perhaps faust misjudged how balanced the choice would be
• perhaps I misjudged how balanced it was

[scolapasta]

OK, I'm ready to jump aboard the:

Vote: ash

wagon. I'm also ready to switch to Awaclus, based on everything I've said, but mostly want to avoid getting too late in the day and the crickets like we had D1. We don't haver the advantage of a Curfew to scare scum away from a NK. (assuming that it was that, and they weren't just blocked or stopped).

please give me a reason either of those people are skum. no sarcasm. everyone is talking, me included, about why they are not skum. why do you think they are?

Well, I wouldn't say "everyone"; there are a number of players who are either not posting or if they do, it's purely mechanical. But yes, those that are more engaged seem to lean on their not being scum.

Note, I don't actually think ash is currently scum. I did toss out one of my crazy "keyser soze" suggestions as something to consider, but in this game at least, I think it's not likely. (you or all players now that I tend to think this way - I have suspected you of this before and been wrong. I did also try it in that scum game too, of course, but that almost backfired horribly as you saw right though it)

Awaclus on the other hand I do suspect. Unlike ash, who had no reason to get detected / risk this hail mary, Awaclus was forced into having to explain his incapacitating of math dude. Yes, there's a chance his story is true, but there's also a chance that it's a lie hidden among truths, and I think the latter seems more likely to me, based on reasons I've posted a few times now.

But even if that is wrong... I do think that they are both more likely than not to be Cylons. And I think that at least one town aligned cylon will convert to scum somehow / somewhen.

If I had a better scum read, I'd be happy to go for that. I'm fairly close to just voting one of these lurkers again, as I think their not posting is anti town. But for now, except for that reason, I'm struggling to read anyone else as scummy, so am defaulting to my thought that a Cylon will betray us at some point.

Why ahs over awaclus, then? honestly, because no one else seems to think Awaclus is scum, so that seems like a wasted vote. If someone else vote awaclus, I'd switch instantly since that's my preference of the two.

[scolapasta]

I'll disagree with this. I think anyone trying to be deceptive (which scum has to) has to worry more about creating a cohesive story, and that entails more risk.

No it doesn't. You can create a cohesive story by posting as little as possible. The less you write, the fewer chances you have to make mistakes. It is not even remotely necessary for scum to do what ash is doing here just in hopes of getting some reverse-psychology towncred and ash is not stupid enough to think it is.

Doesn't this agree with my point, though? that scum/idiot is unlikely enough here that it it's worth devaluing as an option?

I think this gets to my point - if the choice were balanced enough, then why does the "lesser" option offer fewer points, and so many at that? I could imagine 4 instead of 5, or that staying as town would lose points. Also because I think the game design would be more interesting that way. You'd have to sell why you chose the option that gave you fewer points. If the the choice were truly as you say, it's an easy sell, as witnessed by the fact that I seem to be the only one suspicious of this.

I don't know, but here are some possible explanations:

• my arc is a lot easier to complete as scum, it's possible as town and not guaranteed as scum but it's a huge difference, so maybe it's there to compensate for that
• maybe the event was not scripted to happen on D1 but e.g. a day power did something that triggered it, in which case the design of the mechanic was not tailored for the situation in which it happened, making this discussion completely pointless
• maybe the purpose of the legacy points is not to measure your in-game performance by giving you more points for things that are more difficult, but something else (e.g. flavor related), in which case this discussion is also completely pointless
• perhaps faust misjudged how balanced the choice would be
• perhaps I misjudged how balanced it was

FWIW, it's agreed with your judgement on balance, though of course you may have knowledge that I don't.

Your first point, are you saying this is true? Or just that's it's possible? I'm assuming the latter. But if that's the case, it'd be clearly an argument in favor of choosing scum that you chose not to reveal. Which fits in with my theory of hiding lies within a greater truth.

[scolapasta]

vote: scola

we should not exile ash

So because we should not brig ash, we should brig me? Why not the other person who voted ash?? (that's a joke, of course)

Are you ok with not brigging someone? Because we're spinning wheels in the same way we were yesterday so I do think we need to brig someone. I've explained why I voted ash. Is that you're only reason for voting me? Do you disagree with any of my logic about keeping Cylons around is risky?

I do plan on going back at some point and rereading space, based on Mix's vote. I also want to reread WCD as her posts feel more mechanical that the usual WCD.

[Awaclus]

Doesn't this agree with my point, though? that scum/idiot is unlikely enough here that it it's worth devaluing as an option?

That's not your point, that's my point:

You've excluded these options:

3) You're scum and know what you're doing

Your point is:

I don't see either 3 or 4 being as likely

[Awaclus]

Your first point, are you saying this is true? Or just that's it's possible? I'm assuming the latter. But if that's the case, it'd be clearly an argument in favor of choosing scum that you chose not to reveal. Which fits in with my theory of hiding lies within a greater truth.

I'm saying this is true. I didn't consider it when I made the choice, so it wasn't on my mind while posting the explanation for my thought process (and indeed it would have been a lie to include it anyway, since it was not a part of the thought process).

[scolapasta]

Doesn't this agree with my point, though? that scum/idiot is unlikely enough here that it it's worth devaluing as an option?

That's not your point, that's my point:

You've excluded these options:

3) You're scum and know what you're doing

Your point is:

I don't see either 3 or 4 being as likely

You're right. The back and forth here got me confused with 1) scum / idiot. Which means maybe that would should be discounted more. I still think scum / smart here is unlikely.

[WestCoastDidds]

I am not following this well at all. 

[Awaclus]

I am not following this well at all.

You aren't missing out on anything useful.

[Robz888]

Seems wrong to vote for scola when he's generating so much content.

Vote: ADK

[SpaceAnemone]

They know I'm (probably) a Cylon.  Take me out before that can happen, man.

You're assuming that while you're alive, you might suddenly switch from being human-aligned to being cylon-aligned, right? Have you checked to see whether your wincon (or legacy points allocation for this game, at least) can change after the point at which you're brigged?

I'm not saying I think that's a super-likely mechanism for faust to be using, but it does feel odd that you're quite focused on being brigged to prevent yourself from turning, when pushing to be brigged as a human-aligned player seems anti-town in every other possible way, and yet since this game persists after brigging, there must be some chance that some events after a player's brigging might be able to affect their wincon, points allocation or character story overall.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Seems wrong to vote for scola when he's generating so much content.

Vote: ADK

The content that he's generating is so useless though

[A Drowned Kernel]

vote: scola

we should not exile ash

So because we should not brig ash, we should brig me? Why not the other person who voted ash?? (that's a joke, of course)

Are you ok with not brigging someone? Because we're spinning wheels in the same way we were yesterday so I do think we need to brig someone. I've explained why I voted ash. Is that you're only reason for voting me? Do you disagree with any of my logic about keeping Cylons around is risky?

I do plan on going back at some point and rereading space, based on Mix's vote. I also want to reread WCD as her posts feel more mechanical that the usual WCD.

I'd rather try to exile someone who's cylon-aligbed than just blindly exiling people because they're cylons

[scolapasta]

Seems wrong to vote for scola when he's generating so much content.

Vote: ADK

The content that he's generating is so useless though

Useless, really? I'm trying to figure out who's scum. (or as this game seems to have this mechanic - the ability to become scum).

I'd rather try to exile someone who's cylon-aligbed than just blindly exiling people because they're cylons

Me too. We all do (or at least we'll claim to). The flip side is I'd rather not brig someone who's a human-aligned human (since I don't think could ever change sides). And right now no one seems to have any read on anyone else being scum.

So if we exile me or some other unknown, we'll just brig town. Seems to me brigging a Cylon is a better bet than that.

But make a good scum case against anyone. Le't s find scum!

[Awaclus]

Seems wrong to vote for scola when he's generating so much content.

Vote: ADK

The content that he's generating is so useless though

Useless, really?

Yes, really.

But make a good scum case against anyone. Le't s find scum!

We already have one against you.

[Swowl]

Seems wrong to vote for scola when he's generating so much content.
Vote: ADK

The content that he's generating is so useless though

Useless, really?

Yes, really.

But make a good scum case against anyone. Le't s find scum!

We already have one against you.

If Pasta is posting useless content, then so is everyone. The only people that have created content that can be considered "useful" thus far have been due to game mechanics. Which is completely NAI.

[Swowl]

mix - are you still town on ADK?

[Awaclus]

If Pasta is posting useless content, then so is everyone. The only people that have created content that can be considered "useful" thus far have been due to game mechanics. Which is completely NAI.

That's not true, a lot of people are doing or at least trying to do something useful.

[MiX]

mix - are you still town on ADK?

Yes.

Seems wrong to vote for scola when he's generating so much content.

Vote: ADK

The content that he's generating is so useless though

Useless, really? I'm trying to figure out who's scum. (or as this game seems to have this mechanic - the ability to become scum).

I'd rather try to exile someone who's cylon-aligbed than just blindly exiling people because they're cylons

Me too. We all do (or at least we'll claim to). The flip side is I'd rather not brig someone who's a human-aligned human (since I don't think could ever change sides). And right now no one seems to have any read on anyone else being scum.

So if we exile me or some other unknown, we'll just brig town. Seems to me brigging a Cylon is a better bet than that.

But make a good scum case against anyone. Le't s find scum!

Just because you have not been trying to catch current cylon-aligned players doesn't mean no one has.

[Awaclus]

mix - are you still town on ADK?

Yes.

Seems wrong to vote for scola when he's generating so much content.

Vote: ADK

The content that he's generating is so useless though

Useless, really? I'm trying to figure out who's scum. (or as this game seems to have this mechanic - the ability to become scum).

I'd rather try to exile someone who's cylon-aligbed than just blindly exiling people because they're cylons

Me too. We all do (or at least we'll claim to). The flip side is I'd rather not brig someone who's a human-aligned human (since I don't think could ever change sides). And right now no one seems to have any read on anyone else being scum.

So if we exile me or some other unknown, we'll just brig town. Seems to me brigging a Cylon is a better bet than that.

But make a good scum case against anyone. Le't s find scum!

Just because you have not been trying to catch current cylon-aligned players doesn't mean no one has.

Want to vote Pasta?

[MiX]

Want to vote Pasta?

Sure.

Vote: scolapasta

[ashersky]

They know I'm (probably) a Cylon.  Take me out before that can happen, man.

You're assuming that while you're alive, you might suddenly switch from being human-aligned to being cylon-aligned, right? Have you checked to see whether your wincon (or legacy points allocation for this game, at least) can change after the point at which you're brigged?

I'm not saying I think that's a super-likely mechanism for faust to be using, but it does feel odd that you're quite focused on being brigged to prevent yourself from turning, when pushing to be brigged as a human-aligned player seems anti-town in every other possible way, and yet since this game persists after brigging, there must be some chance that some events after a player's brigging might be able to affect their wincon, points allocation or character story overall.

I will attempt to answer without getting mod-bonked again.

Your explanation of my assumption regarding the possibility of my alignment changing while alive is correct.  The town wincon that is listed in the rules post says 5 points for winning.  If my wincon changed while alive, I would assume that the points portion changes to whatever the mafia wincon rewards.  I assume that, if my wincon can change after I'm dead, the same would happen.

For my character arc quest (for lack of a better word), my being alive or dead does not matter. Winning is a requirement, though.

Does that answer your questions?  Being alive or dead in the game has no effect on anything that matters to me.  Winning is my only goal; currently that means fulfilling the town wincon.  I am hoping that dying locks it in.

[faust]

Vote Count 2.4

ashersky (2): ashersky, scolapasta
scolapasta (3): Awaclus, A Drowned Kernel, MiX
A Drowned Kernel (1): Robz888

Not Voting (7): Jack Rudd, SpaceAnemone, WestCoastDidds, EFHW, LaLight, Dylan32, Swowl

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to exile. Day 2 ends April 03, 2021, 06:00:00 am.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Seems wrong to vote for scola when he's generating so much content.
Vote: ADK

The content that he's generating is so useless though

Useless, really?

Yes, really.

But make a good scum case against anyone. Le't s find scum!

We already have one against you.

If Pasta is posting useless content, then so is everyone. The only people that have created content that can be considered "useful" thus far have been due to game mechanics. Which is completely NAI.

pasta's case for exiling ash is purely mechanical, though, which is why it's kind of scummy. None of it is based on whether or not ash is scum, it's based on the idea that ash *could* become scum at later date, maybe. I'm not interested in exiling people based on their hypothetical future conversions, and ash's behavior here screams that he's town right now

ash makes a case that getting exiled right now serves his personal wincon because it locks him in as town. Fine, why should the rest of town care? Our wincon requires us to exile scum, which you're not

Scola is scummy for pushing ash but he is at least putting a lot of effort into the game. Robz is kind of scummy for not putting in effort but I know he hates all the mechanics talk so eh. My scumread on EFHW persists from yesterday but I'd have to go back and read her stuff from today before I put my vote there

[scolapasta]

Seems wrong to vote for scola when he's generating so much content.

Vote: ADK

The content that he's generating is so useless though

Useless, really?

Yes, really.

But make a good scum case against anyone. Le't s find scum!

We already have one against you.

I'm not surprised you'd be on this "useless" trope - as one of my main contributions is making the case against you. With reasons, unlike this supposed case you've made against me, since you don't like to disclose your reasoning. which of course is your prerogative, but at the same time is a convenient way to obfuscate a flimsy case.

If Pasta is posting useless content, then so is everyone. The only people that have created content that can be considered "useful" thus far have been due to game mechanics. Which is completely NAI.

That's not true, a lot of people are doing or at least trying to do something useful.

Like? I will admit it is a little frustrating that somehow my discussion of mechanics is "useless" while others discussion of mechanics is "useful".

Just because you have not been trying to catch current cylon-aligned players doesn't mean no one has.

Why do you say I'm not trying to catch current scum? Of course I am. Maybe my style is different than yours, but that doesn't mean you can mischaracterize what I'm trying to do.

pasta's case for exiling ash is purely mechanical, though, which is why it's kind of scummy. None of it is based on whether or not ash is scum, it's based on the idea that ash *could* become scum at later date, maybe. I'm not interested in exiling people based on their hypothetical future conversions, and ash's behavior here screams that he's town right now

ash makes a case that getting exiled right now serves his personal wincon because it locks him in as town. Fine, why should the rest of town care? Our wincon requires us to exile scum, which you're not

Scola is scummy for pushing ash but he is at least putting a lot of effort into the game. Robz is kind of scummy for not putting in effort but I know he hates all the mechanics talk so eh. My scumread on EFHW persists from yesterday but I'd have to go back and read her stuff from today before I put my vote there

I think this last one here gets to the guts of it. It seems that Im being seen as scummy (by a few) because I'm focused on mechanics and trying to solve the game, rather than reading others and evaluating meta. What is being missed here is that I'm relatively new here - I still don't have a clear idea of anyone's meta, not that I'd necessarily be good at reading it if I could. So I focus on what I hope am good at, mechanics / "solving the game". That's where I can provide value. If it comes off as a little scummy so be it.

I actually think, however ironic as it seems, that being a little scummy makes someone more likely to be town. Actual scum has to try to be very careful with everything they do, and come of completely as town. Hence was all the lurkers keep getting more and more suspicious. Meanwhile town is just trying to solve the game and will post whatever they can to try to help that.

Which is why I'm still on Awaclus for scum - his whole explanation reads to me like trying to come off as town, and the convenience of the lower score if he had picked scum. I think I caught him on that being too much, so now there's a convenient, "well it would have helped my character arc to pick scum so that does actually balance out, oh but I didn't actually notice that until now" argument.

And if I'm wrong about Awaclus, then it's either MiX or ADK taking advantage of the one actual wagon that is being built by misguided town.

So you know what, I'll switch my vote to where my conviction is and see if it garners any support.

Vote: Awaclus

Deadline is Saturday, very early for us USers, so let's try not to have a repeat of D1.

[MiX]

Just because you have not been trying to catch current cylon-aligned players doesn't mean no one has.

Why do you say I'm not trying to catch current scum? Of course I am. Maybe my style is different than yours, but that doesn't mean you can mischaracterize what I'm trying to do.

And right now no one seems to have any read on anyone else being scum.

You said that.

Vote: Awaclus

[Awaclus]

I'm not surprised you'd be on this "useless" trope - as one of my main contributions is making the case against you. With reasons, unlike this supposed case you've made against me, since you don't like to disclose your reasoning. which of course is your prerogative, but at the same time is a convenient way to obfuscate a flimsy case.

I have reasons. Really good reasons, actually. Why is the case on you flimsy?

Like? I will admit it is a little frustrating that somehow my discussion of mechanics is "useless" while others discussion of mechanics is "useful".

It should be obvious that what ash is doing is a waste of time. Others have been trying to move on, you have been making it harder.

I think this last one here gets to the guts of it. It seems that Im being seen as scummy (by a few) because I'm focused on mechanics and trying to solve the game, rather than reading others and evaluating meta. What is being missed here is that I'm relatively new here - I still don't have a clear idea of anyone's meta, not that I'd necessarily be good at reading it if I could. So I focus on what I hope am good at, mechanics / "solving the game". That's where I can provide value. If it comes off as a little scummy so be it.

Why do you think it is seen as scummy?

I actually think, however ironic as it seems, that being a little scummy makes someone more likely to be town. Actual scum has to try to be very careful with everything they do, and come of completely as town. Hence was all the lurkers keep getting more and more suspicious. Meanwhile town is just trying to solve the game and will post whatever they can to try to help that.

For comparison, here's what you said back when you were not the leading wagon:

scum needs to deceive to win which leads to more risky behavior; town can just play it safe, generally.

And if I'm wrong about Awaclus, then it's either MiX or ADK taking advantage of the one actual wagon that is being built by misguided town.

So you know what, I'll switch my vote to where my conviction is and see if it garners any support.

And of course as we both know, you are wrong about Awaclus, so this is a great time to start downplaying your responsibility in my potential exile as well as setting up the next misexiles.

[MiX]

And if I'm wrong about Awaclus, then it's either MiX or ADK taking advantage of the one actual wagon that is being built by misguided town.

So you know what, I'll switch my vote to where my conviction is and see if it garners any support.

And of course as we both know, you are wrong about Awaclus, so this is a great time to start downplaying your responsibility in my potential exile as well as setting up the next misexiles.

He actually might not know. Unless you know he knows?

[Awaclus]

He actually might not know. Unless you know he knows?

He's scum, of course he knows that I'm not on his team.

[WestCoastDidds]

Does Scola dig in like this if he is scum??

[Awaclus]

Does Scola dig in like this if he is scum??

Dig in like what?

[WestCoastDidds]

Does Scola dig in like this if he is scum??

Dig in like what?

This extended back and forth with you

[Jack Rudd]

Scola's only got one previous game as scum - it's difficult to say what is "usual" with respect to such cases.

[scolapasta]

Just because you have not been trying to catch current cylon-aligned players doesn't mean no one has.

Why do you say I'm not trying to catch current scum? Of course I am. Maybe my style is different than yours, but that doesn't mean you can mischaracterize what I'm trying to do.

And right now no one seems to have any read on anyone else being scum.

You said that.

Vote: Awaclus

I did say that. But I don't see how that reads as my not trying to catch scum.

[scolapasta]

I'm not surprised you'd be on this "useless" trope - as one of my main contributions is making the case against you. With reasons, unlike this supposed case you've made against me, since you don't like to disclose your reasoning. which of course is your prerogative, but at the same time is a convenient way to obfuscate a flimsy case.

I have reasons. Really good reasons, actually. Why is the case on you flimsy?

Flimsy, A short play by scolapasta:

Detective: You're guilty. I have solid evidence.
Suspect: I'm innocent - what's your evidence so I can exonerate myself?
Detective: I won't tell you. But tell me why this evidence I won't tell you is flimsy.
Lieutenant: Sorry, Mr. Innocent, You're free to go.
[FIN]

Like? I will admit it is a little frustrating that somehow my discussion of mechanics is "useless" while others discussion of mechanics is "useful".

It should be obvious that what ash is doing is a waste of time. Others have been trying to move on, you have been making it harder.

I didn't think it was a waste of time. You seem to have decided that ash is town but playing poorly. I have only played with ash once maybe (?), but he was a good and wily player. So I'm giving him benefit of the doubt that he's not playing poorly. Still not 100% sure on his idea, but it definitely seemed worth considering and not just blowing off.

I think this last one here gets to the guts of it. It seems that Im being seen as scummy (by a few) because I'm focused on mechanics and trying to solve the game, rather than reading others and evaluating meta. What is being missed here is that I'm relatively new here - I still don't have a clear idea of anyone's meta, not that I'd necessarily be good at reading it if I could. So I focus on what I hope am good at, mechanics / "solving the game". That's where I can provide value. If it comes off as a little scummy so be it.

Why do you think it is seen as scummy?

I actually think, however ironic as it seems, that being a little scummy makes someone more likely to be town. Actual scum has to try to be very careful with everything they do, and come of completely as town. Hence was all the lurkers keep getting more and more suspicious. Meanwhile town is just trying to solve the game and will post whatever they can to try to help that.

For comparison, here's what you said back when you were not the leading wagon:

scum needs to deceive to win which leads to more risky behavior; town can just play it safe, generally.

OK, I do see how you can take these and read them the way you're reading them. I blame it on my quick posting, so let me be try to be clearer.

Scum has to be deceptive to win. Therefore they can't just tell the truth about everything ("hey! look at me, I'm scum") so when they post they have to parse carefully in order to keep a consistent story. This is risky as the more they say, the more they can be caught in an inconsistency. The alternative is to just post less. Put less out there and there is less to catch you on.

Town doesn't have to be so careful. They should generally be telling the truth about everything, so can just post freely without having to double and triple check things. That's what I meant by being able to play it safe.  Of course town shouldn't post everything they know, but that's different from having to check their consistency.

[scolapasta]

Does Scola dig in like this if he is scum??

Dig in like what?

This extended back and forth with you

I do think the back and forth is anti-town. So I'm willing to shift my focus to finding other possible scum. My vote is in and I've provided the reasons for it, in case anyone else wants to join me.

(I do hope y'all enjoyed my little play )

Actually, one more question for Awaclus here: are you Hated this day?

[MiX]

I'm not surprised you'd be on this "useless" trope - as one of my main contributions is making the case against you. With reasons, unlike this supposed case you've made against me, since you don't like to disclose your reasoning. which of course is your prerogative, but at the same time is a convenient way to obfuscate a flimsy case.

I have reasons. Really good reasons, actually. Why is the case on you flimsy?

Flimsy, A short play by scolapasta:

Detective: You're guilty. I have solid evidence.
Suspect: I'm innocent - what's your evidence so I can exonerate myself?
Detective: I won't tell you. But tell me why this evidence I won't tell you is flimsy.
Lieutenant: Sorry, Mr. Innocent, You're free to go.
[FIN]

That Lieutenant is clearly the Suspect's Accomplice.

Does Scola dig in like this if he is scum??

Dig in like what?

This extended back and forth with you

I do think the back and forth is anti-town. So I'm willing to shift my focus to finding other possible scum. My vote is in and I've provided the reasons for it, in case anyone else wants to join me.

(I do hope y'all enjoyed my little play )

Actually, one more question for Awaclus here: are you Hated this day?

If you identified Awaclus as scum due to it, isn't this back and forth very pro-town?

[scolapasta]

If you identified Awaclus as scum due to it, isn't this back and forth very pro-town?

It would be, but it doesn't seem to be revealing much new any more. And it's getting in the way of others posting and allowing lurkers to continue lurking.

At this point you (the collective you) are either on board with the case I've made, onboard with the case Awaclus made (what case, you say? 🤷‍♂️ ), or it's better if we move on and try to find scum somewhere else. We're down to ~60 hours left in the day.

[WestCoastDidds]

Does Scola dig in like this if he is scum??

Dig in like what?

This extended back and forth with you

I do think the back and forth is anti-town. So I'm willing to shift my focus to finding other possible scum. My vote is in and I've provided the reasons for it, in case anyone else wants to join me.

(I do hope y'all enjoyed my little play )

Actually, one more question for Awaclus here: are you Hated this day?

I 100% enjoyed your petite play!

[WestCoastDidds]

I’m surprised we haven’t heard more from Swowl or EFHW. I also wonder when we might get a better sense of Jack.

I know that I haven’t been super active, but still...

[A Drowned Kernel]

I’m surprised we haven’t heard more from Swowl or EFHW. I also wonder when we might get a better sense of Jack.

I know that I haven’t been super active, but still...

Why swowl and EFHW in particular?

[EFHW]

I’m surprised we haven’t heard more from Swowl or EFHW. I also wonder when we might get a better sense of Jack.

I know that I haven’t been super active, but still...

Sorry, circumstances in another game have me not wanting to get confused and needing to dedicate my time there. It's temporary.

[Swowl]

Vote: Pasta

[Swowl]

If Pasta is posting useless content, then so is everyone. The only people that have created content that can be considered "useful" thus far have been due to game mechanics. Which is completely NAI.

That's not true, a lot of people are doing or at least trying to do something useful.

I just voted them, so obviously grain of salt on this one, but it still isn't true. gimme an example of content created today that is not about game mechanics.
- you did the thing with math
- math mix prez
- ash cylon result
- game set up talk.

what else has happened that I missed?

[Awaclus]

Flimsy, A short play by scolapasta:

Detective: You're guilty. I have solid evidence.
Suspect: I'm innocent - what's your evidence so I can exonerate myself?
Detective: I won't tell you. But tell me why this evidence I won't tell you is flimsy.
Lieutenant: Sorry, Mr. Innocent, You're free to go.
[FIN]

You don't have the power to remove my vote from you unless you have reasons that can convince me to remove it myself. "Sure, I have done everything exactly like scum would have done it and I have no evidence to suggest that I'm town, but you can't prove I'm scum" is not a very convincing reason.

I didn't think it was a waste of time. You seem to have decided that ash is town but playing poorly. I have only played with ash once maybe (?), but he was a good and wily player. So I'm giving him benefit of the doubt that he's not playing poorly. Still not 100% sure on his idea, but it definitely seemed worth considering and not just blowing off.

I don't necessarily think he's town, and I don't necessarily think he's playing poorly. But it was a waste of time.

OK, I do see how you can take these and read them the way you're reading them. I blame it on my quick posting, so let me be try to be clearer.

Scum has to be deceptive to win. Therefore they can't just tell the truth about everything ("hey! look at me, I'm scum") so when they post they have to parse carefully in order to keep a consistent story. This is risky as the more they say, the more they can be caught in an inconsistency. The alternative is to just post less. Put less out there and there is less to catch you on.

Town doesn't have to be so careful. They should generally be telling the truth about everything, so can just post freely without having to double and triple check things. That's what I meant by being able to play it safe.  Of course town shouldn't post everything they know, but that's different from having to check their consistency.

It's funny how the ideal strategy for scum and town just keeps changing depending on who you're trying to paint as the exile target.

[Swowl]

who are you and what basement is awaclus in?

[Awaclus]

I just voted them, so obviously grain of salt on this one, but it still isn't true. gimme an example of content created today that is not about game mechanics.
- you did the thing with math
- math mix prez
- ash cylon result
- game set up talk.

what else has happened that I missed?

Well, as soon as ashersky started to spam the thread with his nonsense, a lot of people tried to explain to him why we should be doing something useful instead, which was useful.

[Swowl]

I just voted them, so obviously grain of salt on this one, but it still isn't true. gimme an example of content created today that is not about game mechanics.
- you did the thing with math
- math mix prez
- ash cylon result
- game set up talk.

what else has happened that I missed?

Well, as soon as ashersky started to spam the thread with his nonsense, a lot of people tried to explain to him why we should be doing something useful instead, which was useful.

]


well idk how you define it... but that is the definition of stuff being talked about based of game mechanics for me. or just lazy, your call. but it is not content that is not referencing game mechanics... that is for sure.

[Swowl]

do you think I am skum?

[Swowl]

I just voted them, so obviously grain of salt on this one, but it still isn't true. gimme an example of content created today that is not about game mechanics.
- you did the thing with math
- math mix prez
- ash cylon result
- game set up talk.

what else has happened that I missed?

what were those things that they talked about?
I remember people saying "let's not do this". I do not remember anyone coming up with any alternatives.

Well, as soon as ashersky started to spam the thread with his nonsense, a lot of people tried to explain to him why we should be doing something useful instead, which was useful.

[Swowl]

effed that one up, yall parse it out.

[Swowl]

I just voted them, so obviously grain of salt on this one, but it still isn't true. gimme an example of content created today that is not about game mechanics.
- you did the thing with math
- math mix prez
- ash cylon result
- game set up talk.

what else has happened that I missed?

Well, as soon as ashersky started to spam the thread with his nonsense, a lot of people tried to explain to him why we should be doing something useful instead, which was useful.

nvm it is a good point I don't want it missed

what were those things that they talked about?
I remember people saying "let's not do this". I do not remember anyone coming up with any alternatives.

[Awaclus]

well idk how you define it... but that is the definition of stuff being talked about based of game mechanics for me. or just lazy, your call. but it is not content that is not referencing game mechanics... that is for sure.

I don't really care if something is based on game mechanics, if it achieves (or tries to achieve) something useful. There's even a time for exiling based on game mechanics, but that time is not now and trying to do it anyway is super scummy.

do you think I am skum?

I am not currently voting for you.

what were those things that they talked about?
I remember people saying "let's not do this". I do not remember anyone coming up with any alternatives.

MiX voted for a bunch of people, ADK and I voted for pasta, Robz voted for ADK (which was not a great vote but whatever), etc.

[faust]

Vote Count 2.5

ashersky (1): ashersky
scolapasta (3): Awaclus, A Drowned Kernel, Swowl
A Drowned Kernel (1): Robz888
Awaclus (2): scolapasta, MiX

Not Voting (6): Jack Rudd, SpaceAnemone, WestCoastDidds, EFHW, LaLight, Dylan32

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to exile. Day 2 ends April 03, 2021, 06:00:00 am. This is in a bit over 2 days.

[Awaclus]

Also, I forgot to answer this but I am not hated.

[faust]

LaLight has been prodded.

[Swowl]

well idk how you define it... but that is the definition of stuff being talked about based of game mechanics for me. or just lazy, your call. but it is not content that is not referencing game mechanics... that is for sure.

I don't really care if something is based on game mechanics, if it achieves (or tries to achieve) something useful. There's even a time for exiling based on game mechanics, but that time is not now and trying to do it anyway is super scummy.

so do you not care, or is it skummy?

do you think I am skum?

*Awaclus* - I am not currently voting for you.

that did not answer the question.

3. why does mix voting for a bunch of people matter?
4. why does adk voting for a bunch of people matter?
3/4a - like specifically why do their votes matter more than others to note?


and then just let's wrap it up with the general statement of "ok so people did the shit they are supposed to do... so that is generating content?" no it is restricting content. the only crap that has been done or said... as I opened with.. has been done or said by people that is related to game mechanics.
including this conversation. which makes me feel stupid.

and yes I realize the irony between voting pasta and this stance.

[Awaclus]

so do you not care, or is it skummy?

Useful things are useful, useless things are useless, harmful things are harmful. Useless and harmful things are also scummy. At this time, exiling based on game mechanics is definitely harmful (at some other time, it might not be), but discussing game mechanics might fall in any of the three categories.

that did not answer the question.

Good.

3. why does mix voting for a bunch of people matter?
4. why does adk voting for a bunch of people matter?
3/4a - like specifically why do their votes matter more than others to note?

I just mentioned a few people who came to mind off the top of my head, it was not supposed to be an exhaustive list of everyone who is doing something useful.

[LaLight]

I do not want to exile scola. I have something happened to me related to them which I do not want to disclose, but I have some reasons to trust them. Those are not very strong reasons, to be fair, but they exist

[LaLight]

ok, I'll try to make this case, but note that it's based more on feelings than anything.

Here's one of the instances where I feel like WCD is uneasy about posting. I know it's quite normal, but practically all the post I read seem a bit "forced to say anything useful" and lack lightheartedness I expect from WCD.

Although its been a couple of days, there hasn't actually been much discussion beyond those points.  Ash has lept us focused on the various alignment questions and I can't figure out why those are important, but then again, I am not confused so maybe I'm just not getting it. I don't like voting until I am am feeling more confident, but if you made me vote right now, it would be for Ash.

I find mathdude’s response to MiX entirely in line with how others of us have responded to MiX in the past. He IS controlling and bossy, so that read is dead on. Aggravating MiX is a badge of honor. It’s super towny of math to respond this way, I think.

And here starts the ADK paradox. Try to find out if WCD scumreads ADK or not. Also I must say, a LOT of her posts are about ADK, which may or may not be indicative of something.

vote: Jack Rudd  I had him and ADK on my scummiest list earlier and ADK has slipped a bit into the next-scummiest area as of late leaving Jack at the top of my list alone.

I will move to my next scummiest person as my just in case I don't get back to this tomorrow evening placeholder.
vote: ADK

Here's the backpedaling

ADK doesn't normally lay so low. One of the hallmarks of ADK play is early RVS and then pressure for everyone else to vote, followed by a bunch of questions.  None of that has happened in this game. Additionally, I was late to realizing this game has started. When I finished my initial (late) read, ADK was my top scumread because they were in favor of keeping LLs role information secret, whereas Space was in favor of sharing flavor information that about half the people had and half did not.  I agreed with Space on that so found ADK a bit scummy and then they have haven't done much to change that.

That said, I have a TERRIBLE record of misexiling ADK so I am not taking my sense too seriously because of how often that sense has led me astray. But that is where I am right now.

so are you suspecting them or not?

I think ADK generally likes to have as little revealed as possible.  This was a unique scenario because it was separating out flavor knowledge, not game knowledge. I believe ADK when they said that they did not intend to taunt anyone, though.

Here's another point towards forced posting:

This is what moved ADK down from my most scummy category and led me to vote for Jack yesterday.

Oh, I hate when this happens.  My most scummy tier is Jack, ADK, and Robz but I am not certain enough about any of them to risk losing them this early. The next most scummy tier is mostly just folks who I haven't interacted with this game so not so much scummy as null, but not towny, and MiX who I am wary of but I don't find him out of the ordinary.  The remainder of that tier is swowl, efhw, dylan, lalight, and ash.  I have mathdude, scolapasta, awaclus, and space in my towniest tier.

The Robz and MiX wagons seem to me to be based on nothing. We've agreed that Jack is a bad idea.  ADK isn't getting any traction, and I fully admit my inability to read them correctly.

Swowl and MiX are each voting for someone in my towniest tier, so there is that. The remainder of my next-scummiest tier (efhw, ash, and dylan) are pretty much a toss up. 

vote: Dylan because there isn't anything there to even evaluate

PPE: Mix's list

The other post was the post count

Oh no! Mathdude can't catch a freaking break.

Awaclus is reading even more town than he was before. It sounds like there was a chance his choice could have saved math, but it didn't work out. Bummer.

As much as I LOVE a qt, I do not want to be the VP. ADK is not a bad choice.

All hail the new VP!

MiX, have you had an opportunity to chat with ADK yet? Any better read on them?

That's pretty much it for D1 other than some fluff.

Also what seems suspicious to me, that despite me repeatedly saying I scumread WCD, she never responded to any of that, thinking maybe "if i ignore it maybe it'll go away". Don't exile scola, let's exile WCD with me

yeah, sorry, can't vote

[Awaclus]

I'm not sure how much we can trust your weak reason to trust pasta.

[LaLight]

I'm not sure how much we can trust your weak reason to trust pasta.

I would say as much as you can trust the Cylon machine

I mean, well, ok. Me and pasta had a neighbourhood throughout the Night 1. There wasn't really anything that could point at them being town, but the general felling I got was that they are one.

[LaLight]

general feeling*

[LaLight]

I'm not sure how much we can trust your weak reason to trust pasta.

what do you think about the WCD case?

[Awaclus]

I would say as much as you can trust the Cylon machine

So, not at all.

what do you think about the WCD case?

It's not necessarily a bad case, but I don't want to do it right now.

[A Drowned Kernel]

I just voted them, so obviously grain of salt on this one, but it still isn't true. gimme an example of content created today that is not about game mechanics.
- you did the thing with math
- math mix prez
- ash cylon result
- game set up talk.

what else has happened that I missed?

Well, as soon as ashersky started to spam the thread with his nonsense, a lot of people tried to explain to him why we should be doing something useful instead, which was useful.

nvm it is a good point I don't want it missed

what were those things that they talked about?
I remember people saying "let's not do this". I do not remember anyone coming up with any alternatives.

I mean, the alternative is to exile someone other than ash

[WestCoastDidds]

I’m surprised we haven’t heard more from Swowl or EFHW. I also wonder when we might get a better sense of Jack.

I know that I haven’t been super active, but still...

Why swowl and EFHW in particular?

Because they think they are smart and usually understand what they have to say.

[WestCoastDidds]

Oh, LaLi, just when I think we are making progress toward building trust.... Alas. I fully admit that I am challenging myself to keep up with this game and that I am sometimes, or perhaps even often, posting without a real sense of what is going on. There are a couple of reasons. One, real life is a lot for me right now. Two, I’m in another game that is pretty time consuming. The real life part is the reason for the lack of lightheartedness, and also there are more than a couple of folks in this game who do not enjoy my fluffy fluff. I really do try not to annoy anyone on purpose.

So, let’s get to the specific stuff!

ok, I'll try to make this case, but note that it's based more on feelings than anything.

Here's one of the instances where I feel like WCD is uneasy about posting. I know it's quite normal, but practically all the post I read seem a bit "forced to say anything useful" and lack lightheartedness I expect from WCD.

Although its been a couple of days, there hasn't actually been much discussion beyond those points.  Ash has lept us focused on the various alignment questions and I can't figure out why those are important, but then again, I am not confused so maybe I'm just not getting it. I don't like voting until I am am feeling more confident, but if you made me vote right now, it would be for Ash.

I find mathdude’s response to MiX entirely in line with how others of us have responded to MiX in the past. He IS controlling and bossy, so that read is dead on. Aggravating MiX is a badge of honor. It’s super towny of math to respond this way, I think.

And here starts the ADK paradox. Try to find out if WCD scumreads ADK or not. Also I must say, a LOT of her posts are about ADK, which may or may not be indicative of something.

I really enjoy ADK as a human and as a player. However, over the last year by inability to trust or read them has really hurt town in at least two games. So, I have been working on it. I’ve been working on other things regarding my game play, too, but those are more general “do better, post more meaningfully, and figure out more” kinds of efforts. My ADK effort is specific. So, in this game, after my initial read, I found ADK scummy. So, I shared that. But then I almost immediately started rethinking because of this tendency.

vote: Jack Rudd  I had him and ADK on my scummiest list earlier and ADK has slipped a bit into the next-scummiest area as of late leaving Jack at the top of my list alone.

I will move to my next scummiest person as my just in case I don't get back to this tomorrow evening placeholder.
vote: ADK

Here's the backpedaling

ADK doesn't normally lay so low. One of the hallmarks of ADK play is early RVS and then pressure for everyone else to vote, followed by a bunch of questions.  None of that has happened in this game. Additionally, I was late to realizing this game has started. When I finished my initial (late) read, ADK was my top scumread because they were in favor of keeping LLs role information secret, whereas Space was in favor of sharing flavor information that about half the people had and half did not.  I agreed with Space on that so found ADK a bit scummy and then they have haven't done much to change that.

That said, I have a TERRIBLE record of misexiling ADK so I am not taking my sense too seriously because of how often that sense has led me astray. But that is where I am right now.

so are you suspecting them or not?

I take issue with the phrase backpedaling. That makes it sound like rethinking is a bad thing. I suspected them more on D1 than I do today (and the reasons in that post are legitimate reasons based on experience) although I now also have more pieces of information (that I didn’t realize until later than I should I have) that have me scrutinizing a smaller group of folks more carefully. All of this is to say, I am tempering my ADK reads with my history of bad ADK reads.

I think ADK generally likes to have as little revealed as possible.  This was a unique scenario because it was separating out flavor knowledge, not game knowledge. I believe ADK when they said that they did not intend to taunt anyone, though.

Here's another point towards forced posting:

This is what moved ADK down from my most scummy category and led me to vote for Jack yesterday.

Oh, I hate when this happens.  My most scummy tier is Jack, ADK, and Robz but I am not certain enough about any of them to risk losing them this early. The next most scummy tier is mostly just folks who I haven't interacted with this game so not so much scummy as null, but not towny, and MiX who I am wary of but I don't find him out of the ordinary.  The remainder of that tier is swowl, efhw, dylan, lalight, and ash.  I have mathdude, scolapasta, awaclus, and space in my towniest tier.

The Robz and MiX wagons seem to me to be based on nothing. We've agreed that Jack is a bad idea.  ADK isn't getting any traction, and I fully admit my inability to read them correctly.

Swowl and MiX are each voting for someone in my towniest tier, so there is that. The remainder of my next-scummiest tier (efhw, ash, and dylan) are pretty much a toss up. 

vote: Dylan because there isn't anything there to even evaluate

PPE: Mix's list

Forced posting? That is unfair. I was explaining that all of the people I had initially found scummy were off the table for D1 for a variety of reasons. How I was currently reading the other folks is useful and pro-town. Disparaging a reads list as scummy, not for what it says but because it exists, is a reach.

The other post was the post count

Oh no! Mathdude can't catch a freaking break.

Awaclus is reading even more town than he was before. It sounds like there was a chance his choice could have saved math, but it didn't work out. Bummer.

As much as I LOVE a qt, I do not want to be the VP. ADK is not a bad choice.

All hail the new VP!

MiX, have you had an opportunity to chat with ADK yet? Any better read on them?

That's pretty much it for D1 other than some fluff.

Also what seems suspicious to me, that despite me repeatedly saying I scumread WCD, she never responded to any of that, thinking maybe "if i ignore it maybe it'll go away". Don't exile scola, let's exile WCD with me

yeah, sorry, can't vote

Interesting that you call my posts fluff here when one of your reasons against me is lack of lightheartedness. A didds can’t catch a break...

I haven’t responded to you until now because you haven’t expressed anything beyond “WCD is scummy”. Now that you have, I have responded. It’s pretty much impossible to answer a “I feel like” position with anything more than “uhm, okay”. You have had this feeling about me for awhile, and even as situations have shifted, you haven’t reevaluated or  articulated a reason. I find that disappointing, but not scummy.

[MiX]

<Didds case>

Vote: LaLight

I'm not sure how much we can trust your weak reason to trust pasta.

I would say as much as you can trust the Cylon machine

I mean, well, ok. Me and pasta had a neighbourhood throughout the Night 1. There wasn't really anything that could point at them being town, but the general felling I got was that they are one.

It would make a lot of sense if one of you were scum!

PPE 1

[A Drowned Kernel]

I'm not sure how much we can trust your weak reason to trust pasta.

I would say as much as you can trust the Cylon machine

I mean, well, ok. Me and pasta had a neighbourhood throughout the Night 1. There wasn't really anything that could point at them being town, but the general felling I got was that they are one.

Was the two of you getting a neighborhood the result of a desicion either of you made?

[LaLight]

I'm not sure how much we can trust your weak reason to trust pasta.

I would say as much as you can trust the Cylon machine

I mean, well, ok. Me and pasta had a neighbourhood throughout the Night 1. There wasn't really anything that could point at them being town, but the general felling I got was that they are one.

Was the two of you getting a neighborhood the result of a desicion either of you made?

actually no, funny you asked

[LaLight]

Oh, LaLi, just when I think we are making progress toward building trust.... Alas.

Didds, I would like to say that in no way I was making this case because I have anything against you personally, you're a wonderful human being I am happy I know. Sometimes I can choose words poorly due to my somewhat poor knowledge of emotional background of some words - say, backpedaling as a word doesn't have any bad connotation tied to it, and I am sorry if something comes out even a little bit rude, this is not something I ever want to work towards.

This case is based on my feelings, and the most of it is that I usually never scumread you but in this case I have these vibes and I try to tie something of value to them. This is how I usually build cases.

[LaLight]

<Didds case>

Vote: LaLight

Sure, go ahead.

I'm not sure how much we can trust your weak reason to trust pasta.

I would say as much as you can trust the Cylon machine

I mean, well, ok. Me and pasta had a neighbourhood throughout the Night 1. There wasn't really anything that could point at them being town, but the general felling I got was that they are one.

It would make a lot of sense if one of you were scum!

PPE 1

No, because as said above none of us actually made that neighbourhood. I mean I didn't do it and scola claims they didn't, I am inclined to believe them, just because i got that feeling they were surprised as much as I was.

I was actually thinking someone made this neighbourhood for us so we both would suspect each other and that's why I don't want to suspect them. I know, WIFOM exists, but still.

[scolapasta]

MiX voted for a bunch of people, ADK and I voted for pasta, Robz voted for ADK (which was not a great vote but whatever), etc.

How is Mix voting for a bunch of people useful? He does this every game and you usually can't sue that to get a good read on him as he will vote town and scum as both town and scum.

...and also there are more than a couple of folks in this game who do not enjoy my fluffy fluff. I really do try not to annoy anyone on purpose.

I find it annoying when you don't post fluffy fluff. So there!

I did earlier mention WCD as someone who's post seemed more mechanical than usual. So LL, you're not the only one. I'll have to noodle over her explanation of it. Interesting that two people have now used a 2nd game for justifying there light posting (EFHW was the other one).

OK, I do see how you can take these and read them the way you're reading them. I blame it on my quick posting, so let me be try to be clearer.

Scum has to be deceptive to win. Therefore they can't just tell the truth about everything ("hey! look at me, I'm scum") so when they post they have to parse carefully in order to keep a consistent story. This is risky as the more they say, the more they can be caught in an inconsistency. The alternative is to just post less. Put less out there and there is less to catch you on.

Town doesn't have to be so careful. They should generally be telling the truth about everything, so can just post freely without having to double and triple check things. That's what I meant by being able to play it safe.  Of course town shouldn't post everything they know, but that's different from having to check their consistency.

It's funny how the ideal strategy for scum and town just keeps changing depending on who you're trying to paint as the exile target.

Just stating they keep changing doesn't actually mean they keep changing. Another case where you drop the line of suspicion out there without any justification. Hopefully others will read fully what I wrote and not just your conclusion.

No, because as said above none of us actually made that neighbourhood. I mean I didn't do it and scola claims they didn't, I am inclined to believe them, just because i got that feeling they were surprised as much as I was.

I was actually thinking someone made this neighbourhood for us so we both would suspect each other and that's why I don't want to suspect them. I know, WIFOM exists, but still.

Yeah, I'll agree that LL's confusion of the neighborhood seemed genuine enough to me that I also don't believe either one of us made it. I'm willing to reveal one more thing about the neighborhood - we know a Cylon created it. I didn't want to say it earlier, because I wasn't sure that LL wanted us to yet reveal we even had the neighborhood, but it's part of the reason I am more suspicious of the currently "known" Cylons.

[Awaclus]

How is Mix voting for a bunch of people useful? He does this every game and you usually can't sue that to get a good read on him as he will vote town and scum as both town and scum.

It helps the game move on.

Just stating they keep changing doesn't actually mean they keep changing. Another case where you drop the line of suspicion out there without any justification. Hopefully others will read fully what I wrote and not just your conclusion.

Sure, I don't have a problem with others fully reading your posts where you're trying to fit two contradictory statements into a consistent narrative afterhand. That's not what my case on you relies on, anyway.

Yeah, I'll agree that LL's confusion of the neighborhood seemed genuine enough to me that I also don't believe either one of us made it. I'm willing to reveal one more thing about the neighborhood - we know a Cylon created it. I didn't want to say it earlier, because I wasn't sure that LL wanted us to yet reveal we even had the neighborhood, but it's part of the reason I am more suspicious of the currently "known" Cylons.

This makes no sense. If you're going to assume that whoever created the neighborhood is scum, why would you be worried about revealing the fact that you were in one? If scum created it, scum knows already. On the other hand, if you're not going to assume that, there's no reason to be suspicious of anyone who is somewhat more likely than average to have created it simply on that basis.

[Awaclus]

FWIW, which of the following statements are true:

1) You know that a player whose character is a Cylon used an ability or took another action in the game targeting the two of you to create the neighborhood
2) You know that a character played by a player created the neighborhood (but the player didn't necessarily choose to do so, like how my character killed mathdude)
3) You know that the neighborhood was created by a Cylon (but that Cylon is not guaranteed to be a character played by a player in the game, but could instead just be a flavor thing)

[Awaclus]

1.5) You know that a player whose character is a Cylon used an ability or took another action in the game to create the neighborhood (but didn't necessarily get to choose who would be in it)

[scolapasta]

Apologies, "Know" was too strong a word to use; I should've said "suspect". That's all I want to add right now.

I'm pretty sure at this point Awaclus,  if you are actually town, you are just reading into everything I write and having confirmation bias. Honestly, the same thing is happening when I read what you write, but I'm trying to take a step back and question my assumptions.

[WestCoastDidds]

Oh, LaLi, just when I think we are making progress toward building trust.... Alas.

Didds, I would like to say that in no way I was making this case because I have anything against you personally, you're a wonderful human being I am happy I know. Sometimes I can choose words poorly due to my somewhat poor knowledge of emotional background of some words - say, backpedaling as a word doesn't have any bad connotation tied to it, and I am sorry if something comes out even a little bit rude, this is not something I ever want to work towards.

This case is based on my feelings, and the most of it is that I usually never scumread you but in this case I have these vibes and I try to tie something of value to them. This is how I usually build cases.

We are For Real Friends.  I know this.  No worries about game play.

[WestCoastDidds]

...and also there are more than a couple of folks in this game who do not enjoy my fluffy fluff. I really do try not to annoy anyone on purpose.

I find it annoying when you don't post fluffy fluff. So there!

I did earlier mention WCD as someone who's post seemed more mechanical than usual. So LL, you're not the only one. I'll have to noodle over her explanation of it. Interesting that two people have now used a 2nd game for justifying there light posting (EFHW was the other one).

I can verify that EFHW is similarly distracted.  Dylan and Space, too.  I have been trying not to call them out too much because I know we are all juggling a bit right now.

Work and game and game... the something that is suffering is my attention in this one. Plus there was a ton of set-up talk that is just not my jam.

Here's some fluffy fluff for you...  I am making a chickpea curry right now and my house smells amazing.  Y'all should all come over for dinner.  Also, this the LAST WEEKEND that you will be able to get Cadbury mini eggs for a whole year.  They are my favorite and I am wistful about the absence in advance.

[Jack Rudd]

Mmm, chick pea curry.

[A Drowned Kernel]

<Didds case>

Vote: LaLight

Sure, go ahead.

I'm not sure how much we can trust your weak reason to trust pasta.

I would say as much as you can trust the Cylon machine

I mean, well, ok. Me and pasta had a neighbourhood throughout the Night 1. There wasn't really anything that could point at them being town, but the general felling I got was that they are one.

It would make a lot of sense if one of you were scum!

PPE 1

No, because as said above none of us actually made that neighbourhood. I mean I didn't do it and scola claims they didn't, I am inclined to believe them, just because i got that feeling they were surprised as much as I was.

I was actually thinking someone made this neighbourhood for us so we both would suspect each other and that's why I don't want to suspect them. I know, WIFOM exists, but still.

Do you know whether it was made by player action or not? Why would putting two people in a neighborhood together make them suspect each other?

[Awaclus]

Honestly, the same thing is happening when I read what you write, but I'm trying to take a step back and question my assumptions.

That's because you know I'm town, so you're already setting up room to say "well I didn't really have a very strong scum read on him anyway" after I get exiled and flip town, to avoid any responsibility.

[scolapasta]

Honestly, the same thing is happening when I read what you write, but I'm trying to take a step back and question my assumptions.

That's because you know I'm town, so you're already setting up room to say "well I didn't really have a very strong scum read on him anyway" after I get exiled and flip town, to avoid any responsibility.

Man, you're like a dog with a bone.

But, no, I've never actually said I had a very strong read on you. My vote is due to a somewhat scum read based on the convenience of lots you've posted, the fact that you're a likely Cylon and my theory that one of you or ash has or will turn on us, and the fact that my other reads on people have been mostly town.

But go ahead and keep twisting what I've posted somehow.

Why didn't you do any action last night?

[Awaclus]

Man, you're like a dog with a bone.

But, no, I've never actually said I had a very strong read on you. My vote is due to a somewhat scum read based on the convenience of lots you've posted, the fact that you're a likely Cylon and my theory that one of you or ash has or will turn on us, and the fact that my other reads on people have been mostly town.

But go ahead and keep twisting what I've posted somehow.

And I have never claimed that you have said so. On the contrary, from the get-go, you've been setting up the misexile with the least possible repercussions for yourself: first me, then ash, then me again, and at no point have you claimed to have all that much of a scum read on anyone. It's very convenient, you get to push misexiles through without having to go through the trouble of coming up with flaws in townies' town narratives, without having to bear the responsibility of having been wrong about someone's alignment — if ash had gotten exiled and flipped town when you were voting for him while claiming to town-read him at the same time, that would have been exactly the outcome that you were claiming to expect to begin with and you would have owed an explanation to nobody.

It didn't work with ash because nobody else was interested in it, so now you're trying to do the same with me again. I'm a bit worse than ash for you because you can't quite get away with claiming a town read on me while voting for me, but you're going impressively far with these absolute nonsense theories about Cylons to give yourself an excuse to vote while taking only the bare minimum of a stance on my actual playing.

Why didn't you do any action last night?

For good reasons that I'm sure you and your team would love to know.

[SpaceAnemone]

I can verify that EFHW is similarly distracted.  Dylan and Space, too.  I have been trying not to call them out too much because I know we are all juggling a bit right now.

Work and game and game... the something that is suffering is my attention in this one. Plus there was a ton of set-up talk that is just not my jam.

Yes, very much this on the juggling front. And set-up talk is something I enjoy, so I've been able to dip in a bit there, but not a lot. Too much of the rest of the content seems just to be pairs of people disagreeing over pretty minor things that I haven't felt engaged enough with work out what I think.

Here's some fluffy fluff for you...  I am making a chickpea curry right now and my house smells amazing.  Y'all should all come over for dinner.  Also, this the LAST WEEKEND that you will be able to get Cadbury mini eggs for a whole year.  They are my favorite and I am wistful about the absence in advance.

You could presumably just buy up a year's supply, though, right? I discovered back in 2020 that I really love hot cross buns. I think it was something to do with having found a nice vegan butter substitute and finally being able to have buttered toasted hot cross buns for the first time in a couple of decades. Now they're about to vanish from the shops again, and they're only good for a couple of days after purchasing, so I can't even stock up :-P

[WestCoastDidds]

Could you freeze them and reheat??

Also, I’ve never had a hot cross bun do put that on the list of things you can one day show me

[ashersky]

If two players who don't have neighborhood-style powers end up in a neighborhood with each other and neither player owns up to making that happen, I think one of the is probably mafia.

[A Drowned Kernel]

If two players who don't have neighborhood-style powers end up in a neighborhood with each other and neither player owns up to making that happen, I think one of the is probably mafia.

Do you think that one of them is lying about not creating the neighborhood? What would be the purpose of that?

[Awaclus]

Yes, very much this on the juggling front. And set-up talk is something I enjoy, so I've been able to dip in a bit there, but not a lot. Too much of the rest of the content seems just to be pairs of people disagreeing over pretty minor things that I haven't felt engaged enough with work out what I think.

Pasta is scum, I don't think that's a pretty minor thing.

[WestCoastDidds]

Wasn’t there a RMM game recently-ish where someone could put other people in a neighborhood as one of their actions? It’s seems like it, but I can’t quite grab the memory. Archetype game, maybe?

[faust]

Vote Count 2.6

ashersky (1): ashersky
scolapasta (3): Awaclus, A Drowned Kernel, Swowl
A Drowned Kernel (1): Robz888
Awaclus (2): scolapasta, MiX

Not Voting (6): Jack Rudd, SpaceAnemone, WestCoastDidds, EFHW, LaLight, Dylan32

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to exile. Day 2 ends April 03, 2021, 06:00:00 am. This is in less than 24 hours.

[Awaclus]

LALL

Let's All exiLe scoLapasta

[ashersky]

If two players who don't have neighborhood-style powers end up in a neighborhood with each other and neither player owns up to making that happen, I think one of the is probably mafia.

Do you think that one of them is lying about not creating the neighborhood? What would be the purpose of that?

To hide being mafia.

I'm thinking of the role where one mafia and one town are in a neighborhood and if the mafia dies, so does the town player.  yuma and I used it in the Modern Community game.  Can't recall the name right now.

[A Drowned Kernel]

If two players who don't have neighborhood-style powers end up in a neighborhood with each other and neither player owns up to making that happen, I think one of the is probably mafia.

Do you think that one of them is lying about not creating the neighborhood? What would be the purpose of that?

To hide being mafia.

I'm thinking of the role where one mafia and one town are in a neighborhood and if the mafia dies, so does the town player.  yuma and I used it in the Modern Community game.  Can't recall the name right now.

I don't think "can make a neighborhood with another player" is an ability that's more likely to be a scum role than a town role, and I wouldn't assume most other players would think that either. RMM offers so many opportunities to get caught in a lie that I can't imagine scum would lie about something like that for little to no benefit

[MiX]

If two players who don't have neighborhood-style powers end up in a neighborhood with each other and neither player owns up to making that happen, I think one of the is probably mafia.

Do you think that one of them is lying about not creating the neighborhood? What would be the purpose of that?

To hide being mafia.

I'm thinking of the role where one mafia and one town are in a neighborhood and if the mafia dies, so does the town player.  yuma and I used it in the Modern Community game.  Can't recall the name right now.

I don't think "can make a neighborhood with another player" is an ability that's more likely to be a scum role than a town role, and I wouldn't assume most other players would think that either. RMM offers so many opportunities to get caught in a lie that I can't imagine scum would lie about something like that for little to no benefit

If town had such an ability, they would target themselves and claim to that person. Besides, why pick LL and scola? I think it's more likely that LL and scola are connected by flavor; or that someone that either does not have a choice or is not playing for town made the QT.

[Robz888]

I'm way, way behind and may not catch up before deadline... where should my vote be?

[MiX]

I'm way, way behind and may not catch up before deadline... where should my vote be?

Awacluscolapasta, probably. At least I like the "conflict" they're in and feel like flipping one of them.

[Awaclus]

Awacluscolapasta

[Awaclus]

I'm way, way behind and may not catch up before deadline... where should my vote be?

It should be on scolapasta, he's trying to push exiles on people he doesn't think are scum and preparing to set up more misexiles in the future.

[scolapasta]

Man, you're like a dog with a bone.

But, no, I've never actually said I had a very strong read on you. My vote is due to a somewhat scum read based on the convenience of lots you've posted, the fact that you're a likely Cylon and my theory that one of you or ash has or will turn on us, and the fact that my other reads on people have been mostly town.

But go ahead and keep twisting what I've posted somehow.

And I have never claimed that you have said so. On the contrary, from the get-go, you've been setting up the misexile with the least possible repercussions for yourself: first me, then ash, then me again, and at no point have you claimed to have all that much of a scum read on anyone. It's very convenient, you get to push misexiles through without having to go through the trouble of coming up with flaws in townies' town narratives, without having to bear the responsibility of having been wrong about someone's alignment — if ash had gotten exiled and flipped town when you were voting for him while claiming to town-read him at the same time, that would have been exactly the outcome that you were claiming to expect to begin with and you would have owed an explanation to nobody.

It didn't work with ash because nobody else was interested in it, so now you're trying to do the same with me again. I'm a bit worse than ash for you because you can't quite get away with claiming a town read on me while voting for me, but you're going impressively far with these absolute nonsense theories about Cylons to give yourself an excuse to vote while taking only the bare minimum of a stance on my actual playing.

This is clever - you may have never specifically claimed I said so (so I can't directly quote), but you've have strongly implied it with all your posts about my backpedaling my suspicions and setting up misexiles. Whereas you ignore the more obvious, of course I don't know for sure you're scum. To be fair, you're dogged accusation of me also give me pause, as I'm not sure how you'll sell that tomorrow, if you succeed in brigging me today. But when I weigh everything together, I still think you're more likely to have chosen scum than not (assuming you weren't just always scum).

Why didn't you do any action last night?

For good reasons that I'm sure you and your team would love to know.
[/quote]

No, just that since we didn't agree to any such plan, it feels like a missed opportunity to learn / do something. I mean you can't even use the strategy of letting people assume you learned something about me last night as part of your "SUPER STRONG NO WAY I CAN'T BE WRONG JUST TRUST ME EVEN THOUGH I'M A CYLON" case.

[scolapasta]

Awacluscolapasta

Hey! Why do you get the "S"? It's "scolapasta", not "cola"+"pasta". Clearly stealing my S is the last piece of evidence I need to prove my case.

[MiX]

Man, you're like a dog with a bone.

But, no, I've never actually said I had a very strong read on you. My vote is due to a somewhat scum read based on the convenience of lots you've posted, the fact that you're a likely Cylon and my theory that one of you or ash has or will turn on us, and the fact that my other reads on people have been mostly town.

But go ahead and keep twisting what I've posted somehow.

And I have never claimed that you have said so. On the contrary, from the get-go, you've been setting up the misexile with the least possible repercussions for yourself: first me, then ash, then me again, and at no point have you claimed to have all that much of a scum read on anyone. It's very convenient, you get to push misexiles through without having to go through the trouble of coming up with flaws in townies' town narratives, without having to bear the responsibility of having been wrong about someone's alignment — if ash had gotten exiled and flipped town when you were voting for him while claiming to town-read him at the same time, that would have been exactly the outcome that you were claiming to expect to begin with and you would have owed an explanation to nobody.

It didn't work with ash because nobody else was interested in it, so now you're trying to do the same with me again. I'm a bit worse than ash for you because you can't quite get away with claiming a town read on me while voting for me, but you're going impressively far with these absolute nonsense theories about Cylons to give yourself an excuse to vote while taking only the bare minimum of a stance on my actual playing.

This is clever - you may have never specifically claimed I said so (so I can't directly quote), but you've have strongly implied it with all your posts about my backpedaling my suspicions and setting up misexiles. Whereas you ignore the more obvious, of course I don't know for sure you're scum. To be fair, you're dogged accusation of me also give me pause, as I'm not sure how you'll sell that tomorrow, if you succeed in brigging me today. But when I weigh everything together, I still think you're more likely to have chosen scum than not (assuming you weren't just always scum).

Why didn't you do any action last night?

For good reasons that I'm sure you and your team would love to know.

No, just that since we didn't agree to any such plan, it feels like a missed opportunity to learn / do something. I mean you can't even use the strategy of letting people assume you learned something about me last night as part of your "SUPER STRONG NO WAY I CAN'T BE WRONG JUST TRUST ME EVEN THOUGH I'M A CYLON" case.

Wait wait wait, when did Awaclus become a cylon?

Awacluscolapasta

Hey! Why do you get the "S"? It's "scolapasta", not "cola"+"pasta". Clearly stealing my S is the last piece of evidence I need to prove my case.

What's an Awaclu?

[scolapasta]

If two players who don't have neighborhood-style powers end up in a neighborhood with each other and neither player owns up to making that happen, I think one of the is probably mafia.

Do you think that one of them is lying about not creating the neighborhood? What would be the purpose of that?

To hide being mafia.

I'm thinking of the role where one mafia and one town are in a neighborhood and if the mafia dies, so does the town player.  yuma and I used it in the Modern Community game.  Can't recall the name right now.

I don't think "can make a neighborhood with another player" is an ability that's more likely to be a scum role than a town role, and I wouldn't assume most other players would think that either. RMM offers so many opportunities to get caught in a lie that I can't imagine scum would lie about something like that for little to no benefit

If town had such an ability, they would target themselves and claim to that person. Besides, why pick LL and scola? I think it's more likely that LL and scola are connected by flavor; or that someone that either does not have a choice or is not playing for town made the QT.

This is interesting, the flavor idea. I want to say more, but before I do, I'd like LaLight's approval. LL, is it OK if I post more about why we thought what we thought?

[LaLight]

If two players who don't have neighborhood-style powers end up in a neighborhood with each other and neither player owns up to making that happen, I think one of the is probably mafia.

Do you think that one of them is lying about not creating the neighborhood? What would be the purpose of that?

To hide being mafia.

I'm thinking of the role where one mafia and one town are in a neighborhood and if the mafia dies, so does the town player.  yuma and I used it in the Modern Community game.  Can't recall the name right now.

I don't think "can make a neighborhood with another player" is an ability that's more likely to be a scum role than a town role, and I wouldn't assume most other players would think that either. RMM offers so many opportunities to get caught in a lie that I can't imagine scum would lie about something like that for little to no benefit

If town had such an ability, they would target themselves and claim to that person. Besides, why pick LL and scola? I think it's more likely that LL and scola are connected by flavor; or that someone that either does not have a choice or is not playing for town made the QT.

This is interesting, the flavor idea. I want to say more, but before I do, I'd like LaLight's approval. LL, is it OK if I post more about why we thought what we thought?

given that i talked about hood without consulting you, go ahead

[scolapasta]

If two players who don't have neighborhood-style powers end up in a neighborhood with each other and neither player owns up to making that happen, I think one of the is probably mafia.

Do you think that one of them is lying about not creating the neighborhood? What would be the purpose of that?

To hide being mafia.

I'm thinking of the role where one mafia and one town are in a neighborhood and if the mafia dies, so does the town player.  yuma and I used it in the Modern Community game.  Can't recall the name right now.

I don't think "can make a neighborhood with another player" is an ability that's more likely to be a scum role than a town role, and I wouldn't assume most other players would think that either. RMM offers so many opportunities to get caught in a lie that I can't imagine scum would lie about something like that for little to no benefit

If town had such an ability, they would target themselves and claim to that person. Besides, why pick LL and scola? I think it's more likely that LL and scola are connected by flavor; or that someone that either does not have a choice or is not playing for town made the QT.

This is interesting, the flavor idea. I want to say more, but before I do, I'd like LaLight's approval. LL, is it OK if I post more about why we thought what we thought?

given that i talked about hood without consulting you, go ahead

Thanks, LL.

Basically, the reason we suspected it may have been scum who had given us the neighborhood, is because we know (well, LL claimed) that he was targeted by a Cylon, either on N0 or D1. And as MiX said, if this had been from town, why us?

Do either Ash or Awaclus want to claim responsibility?

I did also suggest in the QT that it was due to flavor, as LL and I told each other our characters, and it could fit. But the being targeted seemed suspicious.

[Awaclus]

This is clever - you may have never specifically claimed I said so (so I can't directly quote), but you've have strongly implied it with all your posts about my backpedaling my suspicions and setting up misexiles.

And because you assumed wrong, you kept doing the scummy thing. This is one of the reasons why it's not a great idea to reveal your reasons as soon as you have any.

Whereas you ignore the more obvious, of course I don't know for sure you're scum.

I haven't ignored that. I totally agree, you don't know for sure I'm scum. You know for sure I'm town.

No, just that since we didn't agree to any such plan, it feels like a missed opportunity to learn / do something. I mean you can't even use the strategy of letting people assume you learned something about me last night as part of your "SUPER STRONG NO WAY I CAN'T BE WRONG JUST TRUST ME EVEN THOUGH I'M A CYLON" case.

Here are some possible answers:

• I forgot to send in my actions, missed the deadline (perhaps because of DST), or mistakenly thought I had already sent them
• I don't have any night action abilities
• All of my night actions are x-shot and this was not the best time to be using them
• All of my night actions are of questionable utility and it didn't seem like it would benefit town to use any of them
• All of my night actions are situational and couldn't be used last night because the criteria weren't met
• I didn't want to be hated

The real answer could be one of those, a combination of them, or something more complicated that I didn't even put on the list because doing so would have made it obvious that was the thing. Who knows? Anyway, it's pretty obvious how it would benefit scum to know the answer, which is why I'm not revealing it, and incidentally also why you're asking it.

It's unfortunate that we have the hated thing, I have no choice but to admit that I did not cop you last night. It's pretty interesting that you would be worried about such a possibility, though.

Wait wait wait, when did Awaclus become a cylon?

I have not claimed to be a Cylon, and scola shouldn't know that unless he has some insider info from e.g. having activated the event on D1.

[Awaclus]

Basically, the reason we suspected it may have been scum who had given us the neighborhood, is because we know (well, LL claimed) that he was targeted by a Cylon, either on N0 or D1. And as MiX said, if this had been from town, why us?

Do either Ash or Awaclus want to claim responsibility?

I did not create that neighborhood.

[scolapasta]

Wait wait wait, when did Awaclus become a cylon?

I have not claimed to be a Cylon, and scola shouldn't know that unless he has some insider info from e.g. having activated the event on D1.

OK, I think i have to stop trying to defend myself - there seems to be little point. I have posted several times I believe you are a Cylon based on the big D1 event of your incapacitating our president. That only makes flavor sense to me if you're a Cylon.

It also could be possible that I know you a Cylon due to a PR. Note I am not claiming that, though i have claimed that I did perform 1 action last night.

Pasta is scum, I don't think that's a pretty minor thing.

So by your own argument, you would only know this if you are scum (ironically, making us both scum, ha!).

Basically, the reason we suspected it may have been scum who had given us the neighborhood, is because we know (well, LL claimed) that he was targeted by a Cylon, either on N0 or D1. And as MiX said, if this had been from town, why us?

Do either Ash or Awaclus want to claim responsibility?

I did not create that neighborhood.

Interesting. Notice the answer doesn't include "I'm not a Cylon" (as that part of the premise of the question), just a claim that he didn't create the neighborhood.

[Awaclus]

Interesting. Notice the answer doesn't include "I'm not a Cylon" (as that part of the premise of the question), just a claim that he didn't create the neighborhood.

I don't think that's very interesting:

By default, players are unaware of their species.

[scolapasta]

Interesting. Notice the answer doesn't include "I'm not a Cylon" (as that part of the premise of the question), just a claim that he didn't create the neighborhood.

I don't think that's very interesting:

By default, players are unaware of their species.

Do you know if you're a Human or a Cylon?

[Awaclus]

Interesting. Notice the answer doesn't include "I'm not a Cylon" (as that part of the premise of the question), just a claim that he didn't create the neighborhood.

I don't think that's very interesting:

By default, players are unaware of their species.

Do you know if you're a Human or a Cylon?

No.

[A Drowned Kernel]

If two players who don't have neighborhood-style powers end up in a neighborhood with each other and neither player owns up to making that happen, I think one of the is probably mafia.

Do you think that one of them is lying about not creating the neighborhood? What would be the purpose of that?

To hide being mafia.

I'm thinking of the role where one mafia and one town are in a neighborhood and if the mafia dies, so does the town player.  yuma and I used it in the Modern Community game.  Can't recall the name right now.

I don't think "can make a neighborhood with another player" is an ability that's more likely to be a scum role than a town role, and I wouldn't assume most other players would think that either. RMM offers so many opportunities to get caught in a lie that I can't imagine scum would lie about something like that for little to no benefit

If town had such an ability, they would target themselves and claim to that person. Besides, why pick LL and scola? I think it's more likely that LL and scola are connected by flavor; or that someone that either does not have a choice or is not playing for town made the QT.

Right, but what ash is positing is that one of ash or LL is scum, created the neighborhood, and then decided to lie about that fact

[scolapasta]

If two players who don't have neighborhood-style powers end up in a neighborhood with each other and neither player owns up to making that happen, I think one of the is probably mafia.

Do you think that one of them is lying about not creating the neighborhood? What would be the purpose of that?

To hide being mafia.

I'm thinking of the role where one mafia and one town are in a neighborhood and if the mafia dies, so does the town player.  yuma and I used it in the Modern Community game.  Can't recall the name right now.

I don't think "can make a neighborhood with another player" is an ability that's more likely to be a scum role than a town role, and I wouldn't assume most other players would think that either. RMM offers so many opportunities to get caught in a lie that I can't imagine scum would lie about something like that for little to no benefit

If town had such an ability, they would target themselves and claim to that person. Besides, why pick LL and scola? I think it's more likely that LL and scola are connected by flavor; or that someone that either does not have a choice or is not playing for town made the QT.

Right, but what ash is positing is that one of ash or LL is scum, created the neighborhood, and then decided to lie about that fact

I think you mean me or LL.

Was that example from before a 1 night or more permanent neighborhood. Ours was only for open N1.

[Swowl]

Sorry, it was my anniversary yesterday and I have not had time since the night before last to keep up.... so I am kind of speed reading here but lemme make sure I have a few things correct....

1. LL/Pasta have a hood together.
 - ya'll have claimed flavor to one and other
 - neither of you created the hood, or claimed that at least
 - it is currently thought that LL being targeted on N0/D1 was the action that created the hood

Question 1 - LL when you say you did not create the thread, does that mean that the cylon action that targeted you was not like a "target a player" choice you were given?
Question 2 - probably been answered.... when did your hood open?


2. Awaclus v Pasta
 - Awaclus claimed no night actions last night, and was not willing to give a reason for pasta vote (because awaclus, ok fine). We can deduce from that they have no results on pasta. I was kind of reading awaclus pov up until the recent no action claim as they potentially had a result. Without that on the table, I am a little less confident on pasta being skum... but I have had a small SR on them anyways so still an ok exile I suppose.
- However, I am pretty certain awaclus would not create the 1v1 and soooooooo far into it then decide to remove the backdoor "look I have been crumbing a result" concept. I already had been vocal about Awaclus being a TR for me, but just so that point is out there for people to consider.

Question - Pasta, why specifically Ash/Awaclus on the hood creation question?

PPE - ignore question 2

[Swowl]

wait your thread closed end of N1?
were you aware of it's timeline when it opened?

[Awaclus]

We can deduce from that they have no results on pasta.

I'm not saying I have results on pasta, but we can't deduce that. Day actions are likely to exist in this game if we can trust LL's claim (or rather, scolapasta's description of it, but as much as he is scum, I don't think there's any reason for him to lie about this):

we know (well, LL claimed) that he was targeted by a Cylon, either on N0 or D1.

[Swowl]

aright fair enough.

[LaLight]

I don't know what was the action. I know i was targeted by a cylon on Day 1 and that's it. I assumed it was creatin a neighbourhood thing

[LaLight]

We can deduce from that they have no results on pasta.

I'm not saying I have results on pasta, but we can't deduce that. Day actions are likely to exist in this game if we can trust LL's claim (or rather, scolapasta's description of it, but as much as he is scum, I don't think there's any reason for him to lie about this):

we know (well, LL claimed) that he was targeted by a Cylon, either on N0 or D1.

so fat scola didn't claim anything wrong

[LaLight]

so far

[Dylan32]

Checking in, and yeah like Didds and Space said, juggling is hard.  I still haven't had time but still intend to go back and read scola's last scum game. If my quick catch has me understanding what has happened and been claimed correctly, I lean towards one of LL or scola being scum and lying about not creating their neighborhood, but that's just my gut.

Awaclus has started to sound more like the Awaclus I remember from older games, which is either a great thing for flushing out relatively inexperienced scum!scola or it's a really bad thing for town since it might set up a scola misexile based solely on Awaclus's ability to make town!scola look bad since scola has no idea how to deal with Awaclus. I say this because Awaclus has a particular way of throwing people off their game, which is good for town when he's town, and great for himself when he's scum. I remember getting tunneled by scum!Awaclus in one of my early games with him, and it was the most frustrating thing ever. I absolutely dug my own grave while trying to argue with him and got misexiled without gaining much support for myself at all.

ppe 4

[WestCoastDidds]

Flavor folks, is there a reason for Helo to need to have a neighborhood?

LaLi, if you could vote, would you vote for Scola?

[Swowl]

We can deduce from that they have no results on pasta.

I'm not saying I have results on pasta, but we can't deduce that. Day actions are likely to exist in this game if we can trust LL's claim (or rather, scolapasta's description of it, but as much as he is scum, I don't think there's any reason for him to lie about this):

we know (well, LL claimed) that he was targeted by a Cylon, either on N0 or D1.

so fat scola didn't claim anything wrong

what did you tell scola when you told them you were targeted by a cylon?

[scolapasta]

Question - Pasta, why specifically Ash/Awaclus on the hood creation question?

Because they are the two people I current suspect are Cylons, based on the test result and flavor.

wait your thread closed end of N1?
were you aware of it's timeline when it opened?

Yes and Yes. I am becoming more open to the idea that it opened because of flavor. I'm also willing to reveal that flavor, but again, would prefer to confirm with LL that he is Ok with it, since it will reveal about him, as well.

We can deduce from that they have no results on pasta.

I'm not saying I have results on pasta, but we can't deduce that.

Is this an attempt to fake a breadcrumb? I know my experience is minimal, but a "daycop" seems a weird role. I'm sure Awaclus will paint this as my being worried about being copped, but the reality is I'd love to be targeted by an actual cop to prove my innocence. I just feel like this is more of Awaclus trying to make it seems like he has something, when he doesn't.

so fat scola didn't claim anything wrong

I mean, I've gained some weight during COVID, but is this really necessary?

Awaclus has started to sound more like the Awaclus I remember from older games, which is either a great thing for flushing out relatively inexperienced scum!scola or it's a really bad thing for town since it might set up a scola misexile based solely on Awaclus's ability to make town!scola look bad since scola has no idea how to deal with Awaclus. I say this because Awaclus has a particular way of throwing people off their game, which is good for town when he's town, and great for himself when he's scum. I remember getting tunneled by scum!Awaclus in one of my early games with him, and it was the most frustrating thing ever. I absolutely dug my own grave while trying to argue with him and got misexiled without gaining much support for myself at all.

THIS. Especially the bold part.

Flavor folks, is there a reason for Helo to need to have a neighborhood?

If LL is ok with my saying more, I'll answer my thoughts on this.

what did you tell scola when you told them you were targeted by a cylon?

He responded after I asked him if he had opened the neighborhood and why? (He did first ask me if I had targeted him, but did not explain why he was asking). LL can confirm this and choose to elaborate, if he wants.

[Awaclus]

Is this an attempt to fake a breadcrumb?

No, it is me pointing out a fact. It's a true, publicly known fact so there's no harm in pointing it out.

I know my experience is minimal, but a "daycop" seems a weird role. I'm sure Awaclus will paint this as my being worried about being copped, but the reality is I'd love to be targeted by an actual cop to prove my innocence. I just feel like this is more of Awaclus trying to make it seems like he has something, when he doesn't.

No, that's not what I will paint this as. I will paint this as what it is: you trying to help your teammates figure out what abilities I have so that they can play around them.

[Jack Rudd]

Flavor folks, is there a reason for Helo to need to have a neighborhood?

Well, he's stranded on Kobol with only Athena for company. That could be what it's modelling.

[scolapasta]

Flavor folks, is there a reason for Helo to need to have a neighborhood?

Well, he's stranded on Kobol with only Athena for company. That could be what it's modelling.

Huh, that could have been clever design, but I'm not Athena. (also, I think you mean Caprica, not Kobol)

So here's my alternative theory to why we got the N1 neighborhood together - I think LL won't mind that I post now since it only reveals something about him that we all suspected and I'd rather get this out there now since we have limited time.

My character is William Adama and LL is Helo. So it's possible that our neighborhood was because it represented Helo contacting his commander in order to arrange somehow regrouping with the Galactica.

I have no idea if this is more or less likely than we were targeted by a Cylon, but there it is.

[WestCoastDidds]

Vote: Dylan because I can’t vote for Joth

[MiX]

Vote: Dylan because I can’t vote for Joth

This forms my full extent of my Dylan scumread on D1. I was thinking about voting him now, but I got over my scumread of him this game by now.

Flavor folks, is there a reason for Helo to need to have a neighborhood?

Well, he's stranded on Kobol with only Athena for company. That could be what it's modelling.

Huh, that could have been clever design, but I'm not Athena. (also, I think you mean Caprica, not Kobol)

So here's my alternative theory to why we got the N1 neighborhood together - I think LL won't mind that I post now since it only reveals something about him that we all suspected and I'd rather get this out there now since we have limited time.

My character is William Adama and LL is Helo. So it's possible that our neighborhood was because it represented Helo contacting his commander in order to arrange somehow regrouping with the Galactica.

I have no idea if this is more or less likely than we were targeted by a Cylon, but there it is.

Does your QT not have a flavor name?

[Jack Rudd]

Caprica, of course it was. Kobol is where the fleet goes later in Season 1.

[scolapasta]

Does your QT not have a flavor name?

It did not have anything to indicate really much of anything (except that it was only for N1).

[scolapasta]

At this point it feels like we're not getting an Awaclus brigging today, nor (at least I hope) a scolapasta brigging, as I would have expected by now at least 1 or 2* more votes on either if it were to happen? Is there anyone else to even consider?

* 2 more votes on me puts me at X-1 due to Hated, whereas Awaclus still needs 4 more for X-1

I know the other game just wound up, so hopefully those folks will begin to post more, though I also feel scum may have used that as an shield to lurk. (i.e. at least a nonzero # of those in the other game have to have been legit town and trying to balance both games or else we'd have 5+ scum this game!

[MiX]

At this point it feels like we're not getting an Awaclus brigging today, nor (at least I hope) a scolapasta brigging, as I would have expected by now at least 1 or 2* more votes on either if it were to happen? Is there anyone else to even consider?

* 2 more votes on me puts me at X-1 due to Hated, whereas Awaclus still needs 4 more for X-1

I know the other game just wound up, so hopefully those folks will begin to post more, though I also feel scum may have used that as an shield to lurk. (i.e. at least a nonzero # of those in the other game have to have been legit town and trying to balance both games or else we'd have 5+ scum this game!

4 players that were also playing the other game, and you being the fifth?

I don't really mind no one being exiled, this is basically D1 again with added amounts of fake information, what we did today was mostly continue the scola/Awaclus fight (which started in D1 apparently, I went to check) and now people want to kill one of you, which is fine (and I agree with that), but I have no idea if either of you are scum or not.

I'm off now, so my vote will stay on Awaclus.

[scolapasta]

I know the other game just wound up, so hopefully those folks will begin to post more, though I also feel scum may have used that as an shield to lurk. (i.e. at least a nonzero # of those in the other game have to have been legit town and trying to balance both games or else we'd have 5+ scum this game!

4 players that were also playing the other game, and you being the fifth?

I don't really mind no one being exiled, this is basically D1 again with added amounts of fake information, what we did today was mostly continue the scola/Awaclus fight (which started in D1 apparently, I went to check) and now people want to kill one of you, which is fine (and I agree with that), but I have no idea if either of you are scum or not.

I'm off now, so my vote will stay on Awaclus.
[/quote]

haha - I blanked that joth is not in this game. (though to be fair, the 5th could be the Swowl, since he moderated it).

I'll be away for a little, but I'll check in a little later before going to bed.

[scolapasta]

QUOTE FAIL:

At this point it feels like we're not getting an Awaclus brigging today, nor (at least I hope) a scolapasta brigging, as I would have expected by now at least 1 or 2* more votes on either if it were to happen? Is there anyone else to even consider?

* 2 more votes on me puts me at X-1 due to Hated, whereas Awaclus still needs 4 more for X-1

I know the other game just wound up, so hopefully those folks will begin to post more, though I also feel scum may have used that as an shield to lurk. (i.e. at least a nonzero # of those in the other game have to have been legit town and trying to balance both games or else we'd have 5+ scum this game!

4 players that were also playing the other game, and you being the fifth?

I don't really mind no one being exiled, this is basically D1 again with added amounts of fake information, what we did today was mostly continue the scola/Awaclus fight (which started in D1 apparently, I went to check) and now people want to kill one of you, which is fine (and I agree with that), but I have no idea if either of you are scum or not.

I'm off now, so my vote will stay on Awaclus.

haha - I blanked that joth is not in this game. (though to be fair, the 5th could be the Swowl, since he moderated it).

I'll be away for a little, but I'll check in a little later before going to bed.

[Awaclus]

4 hours left, people need to start voting (for scolapasta).

[LaLight]

We can deduce from that they have no results on pasta.

I'm not saying I have results on pasta, but we can't deduce that. Day actions are likely to exist in this game if we can trust LL's claim (or rather, scolapasta's description of it, but as much as he is scum, I don't think there's any reason for him to lie about this):

we know (well, LL claimed) that he was targeted by a Cylon, either on N0 or D1.

so fat scola didn't claim anything wrong

what did you tell scola when you told them you were targeted by a cylon?

i told then that i was targeted by a cylon and that this is my passive power

[LaLight]

4 hours left, people need to start voting (for scolapasta).

would  love to

[LaLight]

Flavor folks, is there a reason for Helo to need to have a neighborhood?

LaLi, if you could vote, would you vote for Scola?

yes

[LaLight]

i feel like people can't exile anyone without my votes!

[Swowl]

I am a *sort of* compulsive vigilante.

I do have to shoot tonight.
I will be choosing from anyone that is not voting.

[LaLight]

I am a *sort of* compulsive vigilante.

I do have to shoot tonight.
I will be choosing from anyone that is not voting.

not fair!

[Awaclus]

I am a *sort of* compulsive vigilante.

I do have to shoot tonight.
I will be choosing from anyone that is not voting.

Seems reasonable.

[Swowl]

I am a *sort of* compulsive vigilante.

I do have to shoot tonight.
I will be choosing from anyone that is not voting.

not fair!

I am legit on the fence about you, but tbf, you get a pass this nigh as it has been proven you cannot do the things you say you cannot do.

[Swowl]

I am a *sort of* compulsive vigilante.

I do have to shoot tonight.
I will be choosing from anyone that is not voting.

not fair!

I am legit on the fence about you, but tbf, you get a pass this nigh as it has been proven you cannot do the things you say you cannot do.

or whatever... proven to an extent.

[Swowl]

I am a *sort of* compulsive vigilante.

I do have to shoot tonight.
I will be choosing from anyone that is not voting.

Seems reasonable.

dunno if that is sarcasm, but it seems reasonable to me.

[Awaclus]

I am a *sort of* compulsive vigilante.

I do have to shoot tonight.
I will be choosing from anyone that is not voting.

Seems reasonable.

dunno if that is sarcasm, but it seems reasonable to me.

It wasn't. More people need to vote.

[Swowl]

I am a *sort of* compulsive vigilante.

I do have to shoot tonight.
I will be choosing from anyone that is not voting.

Seems reasonable.

dunno if that is sarcasm, but it seems reasonable to me.

It wasn't. More people need to vote.

effing agreed.

[faust]

Vote Count 2.7

ashersky (1): ashersky
scolapasta (3): Awaclus, A Drowned Kernel, Swowl
A Drowned Kernel (1): Robz888
Awaclus (2): scolapasta, MiX
Dylan32 (1): WestCoastDidds

Not Voting (5): Jack Rudd, SpaceAnemone, EFHW, LaLight, Dylan32

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to exile. Day 2 ends April 03, 2021, 06:00:00 am. This is in 2.5 hours.

[Swowl]

yeah all it is 1am here. im out. ill flip a coin.

[Awaclus]

Is anyone on? Deadline is in 75 minutes and we need 3 more votes on pasta. At this point it doesn't look likely we could exile anyone else.

[ashersky]

I am voting.

I did not create that neighborhood.  I did nothing last night.

Where is everyone?

[Awaclus]

I am voting.

Nobody is going to join you, vote pasta so we can get an exile at all.

[Awaclus]

Prod: Space
Prod: EFHW

[faust]

Day 2 Final Vote Count

ashersky (1): ashersky
scolapasta (3): Awaclus, A Drowned Kernel, Swowl
A Drowned Kernel (1): Robz888
Awaclus (2): scolapasta, MiX
Dylan32 (1): WestCoastDidds

Not Voting (5): Jack Rudd, SpaceAnemone, EFHW, LaLight, Dylan32

With 13 alive, it took 7 to exile.

[faust]

It is simple, at this time, to turn to suspicion and deceit, to accuse one another and split into tiny factions. But we can be bigger than that - we must be bigger than that. We will show that humanity is not just the inferior species. we shall stand, proud and tall, together.

So say we all.

Noone was exiled.

Night 2 begins and lasts for at least 48 hours. The Night action deadline is April 04, 2021, 06:00:00 pm.

The following presidential order is in place tonight:

Isolate Colonial One
Any action targeting the President tonight will fail.

Thread locked!

[faust]

Prod: Space
Prod: EFHW

The prods have been issued for the Night phase.

[faust]

Whatever they did, whyever they did it - it is over now. Some may say judgment has been passed, others be shocked by the display of violence. But what is done is done.

Awaclus has been incapacitated! They were Billy Keikeya, and they were human-aligned. They had the following powers:

• 2-shot, investigative
• 1-shot, miscellaneous

Day 3 begins! Thread unlocked!

Vote Count 3.0

Not Voting (12): Jack Rudd, SpaceAnemone, WestCoastDidds, MiX, EFHW, scolapasta, LaLight, Dylan32, A Drowned Kernel, Swowl, Robz888, ashersky

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to exile. Day 2 ends April 12, 2021, 08:30:00 am.

[A Drowned Kernel]

swowl, did you not shoot?

[WestCoastDidds]

And LaLight, what is your status today?

[MiX]

Hi everyone! Oh Awaclus was town? Dammit, they were my top scumread. Back to the drawing board I guess.

What do people think of the current executive orders? How would you rank them, from most useful to least useful today?

And does anyone want to be the vice president now? I can change from ADK.

[WestCoastDidds]

Is there an advantage to have a different VP, MiX?

[MiX]

Is there an advantage to have a different VP, MiX?

More QTs! I'm sure you can see why that would be a net positive.

[WestCoastDidds]

Is there an advantage to have a different VP, MiX?

More QTs! I'm sure you can see why that would be a net positive.

I do love a QT! I would do it, but my guess is that when people show up you will have more takers.

I’m a bit meh on the exec order choices. We need some stuff to start happening, though or else we might stay in this dead zone. (Maybe that will change when people show up and we hear about the night...) so the civilian jurisdiction ensures we get an exile while the military police force would get us some results but the caveat that military are undetectable means we probably wouldn’t get a result on scum. The pardon seems mostly counter-productive since we can’t seem to exile anyway, but maybe more useful than some of the other ones. I wouldn’t want to Prioritize without more information on who is military and who is civilian.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Hi everyone! Oh Awaclus was town? Dammit, they were my top scumread. Back to the drawing board I guess.

What do people think of the current executive orders? How would you rank them, from most useful to least useful today?

And does anyone want to be the vice president now? I can change from ADK.

I nominate ash

[LaLight]

vote: DatSwan

you did shoot, didn't you?

Also yeah, I am a full player unit, vote for me and I'll vote for you.

[WestCoastDidds]

vote: DatSwan

you did shoot, didn't you?

Also yeah, I am a full player unit, vote for me and I'll vote for you.

Did you get any information in that regard?

[LaLight]

I was shot and protected. One of those two was a Cylon.

[LaLight]

I mean not literally "shot" but targeted for being murdered if that's relevant

[LaLight]

I was shot and protected. One of those two was a Cylon.

wait, both were.

[SpaceAnemone]

Apologies for going proddable at the end of the last game day. I honestly hadn't realised the deadline was so close to the M134 deadline, and that game was taking almost all my attention. I intend to do a full re-read of this game starting tonight, though that may take some time, because the number of posts here already is not much less than the entire M134 game :-/

[LaLight]

I was shot and protected. One of those two was a Cylon.

wait, both were.

well, there is erm a chance, that this was the one person, who targeted me with a shot and a protection, but I don't actually think this is a possibility

[WestCoastDidds]

Interesting, well then

vote: Swowl

(I don't know if you need to use his Swowl name, LaLi)

[WestCoastDidds]

I was shot and protected. One of those two was a Cylon.

wait, both were.

well, there is erm a chance, that this was the one person, who targeted me with a shot and a protection, but I don't actually think this is a possibility

I'm confused...

[LaLight]

Interesting, well then

vote: Swowl

(I don't know if you need to use his Swowl name, LaLi)

oh my god, i am so sorry

vote: Swowl

[scolapasta]

Hi everyone! Oh Awaclus was town? Dammit, they were my top scumread. Back to the drawing board I guess.

Me too (as everyone knows).

I'm glad the other game is over and hopefully we'll get more engagement from the ones that were in that game.

Also, LL, welcome aboard the Galactica!

Do you think anything happened to trigger it, or do you think it was always a D3 thing?

[Swowl]

I was shot and protected. One of those two was a Cylon.

wait, both were.

well, there is erm a chance, that this was the one person, who targeted me with a shot and a protection, but I don't actually think this is a possibility

it is a possibility.
does your cylon reader have a % modifier? I mean I think I am cylon, it would make 100% sense flavor wise. I just want to be sure.

I did not target you with a killing action last night.

[Swowl]

Hi everyone! Oh Awaclus was town? Dammit, they were my top scumread. Back to the drawing board I guess.

What do people think of the current executive orders? How would you rank them, from most useful to least useful today?

And does anyone want to be the vice president now? I can change from ADK.

I nominate ash

seconded.

[Swowl]

I know it seems too good to be true... but given 2 shot investigative Awa had I am sticking with

Vote: Pasta

I will pull the quotes later

[Swowl]

Interesting, well then

vote: Swowl

(I don't know if you need to use his Swowl name, LaLi)

oh my god, i am so sorry

vote: Swowl

its cool. I will go ahead and say DatSwan is an acceptable nick name for me. Might get confusing for new combers though

[MiX]

I was shot and protected. One of those two was a Cylon.

This seems very relevant. I think Swowl should do testing today.

I was shot and protected. One of those two was a Cylon.

wait, both were.

well, there is erm a chance, that this was the one person, who targeted me with a shot and a protection, but I don't actually think this is a possibility

it is a possibility.
does your cylon reader have a % modifier? I mean I think I am cylon, it would make 100% sense flavor wise. I just want to be sure.

I did not target you with a killing action last night.

Who did you target?

[Swowl]

I was shot and protected. One of those two was a Cylon.

wait, both were.

well, there is erm a chance, that this was the one person, who targeted me with a shot and a protection, but I don't actually think this is a possibility

it is a possibility.

wanna be super clear that this is sarcasm. I am outright saying "yes I targeted you with 2 actions".
They went hand in hand, could not do one without the other.

[MiX]

I was shot and protected. One of those two was a Cylon.

wait, both were.

well, there is erm a chance, that this was the one person, who targeted me with a shot and a protection, but I don't actually think this is a possibility

it is a possibility.

wanna be super clear that this is sarcasm. I am outright saying "yes I targeted you with 2 actions".
They went hand in hand, could not do one without the other.

Were they a "shot" and a "protected"? Why LL?

[Swowl]

I was shot and protected. One of those two was a Cylon.

This seems very relevant. I think Swowl should do testing today.

I was shot and protected. One of those two was a Cylon.

wait, both were.

well, there is erm a chance, that this was the one person, who targeted me with a shot and a protection, but I don't actually think this is a possibility

it is a possibility.
does your cylon reader have a % modifier? I mean I think I am cylon, it would make 100% sense flavor wise. I just want to be sure.

I did not target you with a killing action last night.

Who did you target?

should of been more clear - I did not target anyone with a killing action last night.
the compulsive element has been turned off. I do not know if that is perm or not. and I have no idea why it happened.

[MiX]

should of been more clear - I did not target anyone with a killing action last night.
the compulsive element has been turned off. I do not know if that is perm or not. and I have no idea why it happened.

When was it turned off?

[WestCoastDidds]

LaLi, what more can you tell us? Do you know how many actions you were targeted with, or just those that were cylon?

[Swowl]

I am totally fine with doing testing. Although I do think it would be a waste. I assumed I was Cylon, LL said they could find out if they are targeted by Cylon... I think I am Cylon.

The point of this was to determine if Cylon=Skum 100% of the time. Which I now know to a 100% certainty, it does not.

[MiX]

I am totally fine with doing testing. Although I do think it would be a waste. I assumed I was Cylon, LL said they could find out if they are targeted by Cylon... I think I am Cylon.

The point of this was to determine if Cylon=Skum 100% of the time. Which I now know to a 100% certainty, it does not.

The point of what? Of course that would be false.

[Swowl]

I am totally fine with doing testing. Although I do think it would be a waste. I assumed I was Cylon, LL said they could find out if they are targeted by Cylon... I think I am Cylon.

The point of this was to determine if Cylon=Skum 100% of the time. Which I now know to a 100% certainty, it does not.

The point of what? Of course that would be false.

of targeting lalight?
and yeah I was assuming it was false, but now I know for sure.
Also, if skum did not want people to know who and who was not cylon, I figured LL would be a potential at risk target. Didn't know for sure if that was important, but evidently not that important.

[Swowl]

should of been more clear - I did not target anyone with a killing action last night.
the compulsive element has been turned off. I do not know if that is perm or not. and I have no idea why it happened.

When was it turned off?

no clue. I was informed start of night.

[LaLight]

LaLi, what more can you tell us? Do you know how many actions you were targeted with, or just those that were cylon?

all I know is that I was targeted by some number of Cylons that is equal or more than 1 with shooting and protecting powers over any of them. maybe it was 556 shooting  actions and 892 protective.

[Swowl]

does shooting = killing?

[faust]

Vote Count 3.1

Swowl (2): WestCoastDidds, LaLight
scolapasta (1): Swowl

Not Voting (9): Jack Rudd, SpaceAnemone, MiX, EFHW, scolapasta, Dylan32, A Drowned Kernel, Robz888, ashersky

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to exile. Day 2 ends April 12, 2021, 08:30:00 am.

[scolapasta]

So Lalight, for these actions you knew more than just targeted by a Cylon (killing / protecting).

But for the other action (which we thought could be the neighborhood) you only knew it was a Cylon? No further detail?

[A Drowned Kernel]

I know it seems too good to be true... but given 2 shot investigative Awa had I am sticking with

Vote: Pasta

I will pull the quotes later

I'm pretty sure awaclus being killed makes pasta town

[MiX]

LaLi, what more can you tell us? Do you know how many actions you were targeted with, or just those that were cylon?

all I know is that I was targeted by some number of Cylons that is equal or more than 1 with shooting and protecting powers over any of them. maybe it was 556 shooting  actions and 892 protective.

Hey LaLight...when were you targeted? Can you condense all your claims in one post? I have a theory.

[A Drowned Kernel]

I know it seems too good to be true... but given 2 shot investigative Awa had I am sticking with

Vote: Pasta

I will pull the quotes later

I'm pretty sure awaclus being killed makes pasta town

Oh, you're saying that awaclus may have had some sort of result on scola. I'll have to go back and read awaclus to see if that makes sense but man I have to hope that awaclus would have claimed that when it looked like we were going to no-exile again

[Swowl]

I know it seems too good to be true... but given 2 shot investigative Awa had I am sticking with

Vote: Pasta

I will pull the quotes later

I'm pretty sure awaclus being killed makes pasta town

Oh, you're saying that awaclus may have had some sort of result on scola. I'll have to go back and read awaclus to see if that makes sense but man I have to hope that awaclus would have claimed that when it looked like we were going to no-exile again

I think Awaclus claims exactly 0% of the time there.
1. Because Awaclus
2. Because they had no reason to think they were going to be lynched.
3. Because they had enough heat to *I assume* think they would not be a NK target.

They pushed pasta all day for like... literally no reason. They jumped around day 1, eventually ended on me because of the QT/PM post nonsense. All the time having the back and forth with pasta, albeit less than day 2, but still there... then came out and tunneled the crap out of pasta.

To me that reads "Investigation role had a skum read on the person they were going back and forth with day 1, targeted them, got their result, then tunneled the shit out of them".

[MiX]

I know it seems too good to be true... but given 2 shot investigative Awa had I am sticking with

Vote: Pasta

I will pull the quotes later

I'm pretty sure awaclus being killed makes pasta town

Oh, you're saying that awaclus may have had some sort of result on scola. I'll have to go back and read awaclus to see if that makes sense but man I have to hope that awaclus would have claimed that when it looked like we were going to no-exile again

I think Awaclus claims exactly 0% of the time there.
1. Because Awaclus
2. Because they had no reason to think they were going to be lynched.
3. Because they had enough heat to *I assume* think they would not be a NK target.

They pushed pasta all day for like... literally no reason. They jumped around day 1, eventually ended on me because of the QT/PM post nonsense. All the time having the back and forth with pasta, albeit less than day 2, but still there... then came out and tunneled the crap out of pasta.

To me that reads "Investigation role had a skum read on the person they were going back and forth with day 1, targeted them, got their result, then tunneled the shit out of them".

They did not take an action N1. One of Awaclus' answers to "why didn't you do an action" was "I have shots on my powers and I didn't think it was good to use them yet" - this all points to him having no mechanical information.

Based on what I know today, I'm shifting my attention to you. Are you sure you didn't kill Awaclus or tried to kill LL?

[Swowl]

I know it seems too good to be true... but given 2 shot investigative Awa had I am sticking with

Vote: Pasta

I will pull the quotes later

I'm pretty sure awaclus being killed makes pasta town

Oh, you're saying that awaclus may have had some sort of result on scola. I'll have to go back and read awaclus to see if that makes sense but man I have to hope that awaclus would have claimed that when it looked like we were going to no-exile again

I think Awaclus claims exactly 0% of the time there.
1. Because Awaclus
2. Because they had no reason to think they were going to be lynched.
3. Because they had enough heat to *I assume* think they would not be a NK target.

They pushed pasta all day for like... literally no reason. They jumped around day 1, eventually ended on me because of the QT/PM post nonsense. All the time having the back and forth with pasta, albeit less than day 2, but still there... then came out and tunneled the crap out of pasta.

To me that reads "Investigation role had a skum read on the person they were going back and forth with day 1, targeted them, got their result, then tunneled the shit out of them".

They did not take an action N1. One of Awaclus' answers to "why didn't you do an action" was "I have shots on my powers and I didn't think it was good to use them yet" - this all points to him having no mechanical information.

Based on what I know today, I'm shifting my attention to you. Are you sure you didn't kill Awaclus or tried to kill LL?

100%
Shift away. I am assuming LL is going to confirm here somewhere that "shooting" does not mean killing.

Awaclus also responded that "we cannot deduce that they do not have a result on pasta simply because they said they took no action."

[LaLight]

does shooting = killing?

yeah. I am a bit wary of words because I don't want to quote qt accidentally

[LaLight]

LaLi, what more can you tell us? Do you know how many actions you were targeted with, or just those that were cylon?

all I know is that I was targeted by some number of Cylons that is equal or more than 1 with shooting and protecting powers over any of them. maybe it was 556 shooting  actions and 892 protective.

Hey LaLight...when were you targeted? Can you condense all your claims in one post? I have a theory.

right.

so D1 I was targeted by a Cylon. N1 I had a neighbourhood with scola. N1 I wasn't targeted by any Cylons. D2 I wasn't targeted by any Cylons. N2 I was targeted by some Cylons that had used shooting and protection on me.

[LaLight]

I know it seems too good to be true... but given 2 shot investigative Awa had I am sticking with

Vote: Pasta

I will pull the quotes later

I'm pretty sure awaclus being killed makes pasta town

Oh, you're saying that awaclus may have had some sort of result on scola. I'll have to go back and read awaclus to see if that makes sense but man I have to hope that awaclus would have claimed that when it looked like we were going to no-exile again

I think Awaclus claims exactly 0% of the time there.
1. Because Awaclus
2. Because they had no reason to think they were going to be lynched.
3. Because they had enough heat to *I assume* think they would not be a NK target.

They pushed pasta all day for like... literally no reason. They jumped around day 1, eventually ended on me because of the QT/PM post nonsense. All the time having the back and forth with pasta, albeit less than day 2, but still there... then came out and tunneled the crap out of pasta.

To me that reads "Investigation role had a skum read on the person they were going back and forth with day 1, targeted them, got their result, then tunneled the shit out of them".

They did not take an action N1. One of Awaclus' answers to "why didn't you do an action" was "I have shots on my powers and I didn't think it was good to use them yet" - this all points to him having no mechanical information.

Based on what I know today, I'm shifting my attention to you. Are you sure you didn't kill Awaclus or tried to kill LL?

100%
Shift away. I am assuming LL is going to confirm here somewhere that "shooting" does not mean killing.

Awaclus also responded that "we cannot deduce that they do not have a result on pasta simply because they said they took no action."

sorry, you're wrong

[LaLight]

actually some of my reads are as follows:

I was sure Swowl shot me, and I actually didn't think they're scum for it, because they wanted to shoot someone who didn't vote and I was just as well a good target, I guess. I was drawing reactions and I got one which is also super important: WCD.

vote: WCD

but then Swowl say they didn't shoot me and this doesn't make any sense now, although I don't scumread Swowl any more than before.

also scola is ringing some scumbells tbh, so I wouldn't be opposed to their exile, but eh, some options are better.

Swowl, I used your name too much because I am really trying to get used to it

[LaLight]

I don't want to play Awaclus here, I can see I have a confbias, but man, WCD, I'm sorry, you do look like you're scum.

MiX, I am ready to fight you on this one.

[LaLight]

MiX is probably scum as well, but this is not something I can even imagine to convince people about, let's be real

[LaLight]

there are some people who are in this game, Jack Rudd, Space, where you at?

[LaLight]

wait, there's Robz?

[LaLight]

why does this game feel like it's 4,5 people alive

[MiX]

I don't want to play Awaclus here, I can see I have a confbias, but man, WCD, I'm sorry, you do look like you're scum.

MiX, I am ready to fight you on this one.

Why me? Kill Didds for all I care. You should probably explain why though.

MiX is probably scum as well, but this is not something I can even imagine to convince people about, let's be real

I'm too pro-town to be exiled 

there are some people who are in this game, Jack Rudd, Space, where you at?

Away.

wait, there's Robz?

There's a lot of people that haven't checked in.

why does this game feel like it's 4,5 people alive

Me you Swowl ADK scola...yeah, checks out.

[Swowl]

LaLi, what more can you tell us? Do you know how many actions you were targeted with, or just those that were cylon?

all I know is that I was targeted by some number of Cylons that is equal or more than 1 with shooting and protecting powers over any of them. maybe it was 556 shooting  actions and 892 protective.

Hey LaLight...when were you targeted? Can you condense all your claims in one post? I have a theory.

right.

so D1 I was targeted by a Cylon. N1 I had a neighbourhood with scola. N1 I wasn't targeted by any Cylons. D2 I wasn't targeted by any Cylons. N2 I was targeted by some Cylons that had used shooting and protection on me.

how does this mean I am wrong?
I have an x-shot ability that I used on you. It did not contain a killing action.

[MiX]

Okay, Swow, can you summarize your actions like LL did? I might have information regarding this.

[Swowl]

but then Swowl say they didn't shoot me and this doesn't make any sense now

The ability I targeted you with did 2 different things. Either one of them is considered shooting, or I saved you. Or both. But I did not try to kill you.

[Swowl]

Okay, Swow, can you summarize your actions like LL did? I might have information regarding this.

I did nothing night 1, I targeted LL with 1 ability that has 2 actions on Night 2.

[MiX]

Okay, Swow, can you summarize your actions like LL did? I might have information regarding this.

I did nothing night 1, I targeted LL with 1 ability that has 2 actions on Night 2.

And now we wait for the rest of town to arrive...

That is Jack, Space, EFHW, Robz, ash, Dylan. That's a lot of people.

[EFHW]

I'm here. Kind of lost. I don't feel like rereading because I feel like there was a lot of going in circles and I'll get dizzy. But I'll try.

[WestCoastDidds]

I don't want to play Awaclus here, I can see I have a confbias, but man, WCD, I'm sorry, you do look like you're scum.

MiX, I am ready to fight you on this one.

Think about it some more LaLi. I’m sure you can put the conversations together.

[Jack Rudd]

I don't know much of what's going on either.

[Dylan32]

I'm here. Sad town!Awaclus is gone, but I'm glad I read him correctly yesterday.

I haven't caught up on what's been said today yet besides checking the flip, but I'll catch up tomorrow (irl). Based on yesterday and the flip:

Vote: scola

[LaLight]

LaLi, what more can you tell us? Do you know how many actions you were targeted with, or just those that were cylon?

all I know is that I was targeted by some number of Cylons that is equal or more than 1 with shooting and protecting powers over any of them. maybe it was 556 shooting  actions and 892 protective.

Hey LaLight...when were you targeted? Can you condense all your claims in one post? I have a theory.

right.

so D1 I was targeted by a Cylon. N1 I had a neighbourhood with scola. N1 I wasn't targeted by any Cylons. D2 I wasn't targeted by any Cylons. N2 I was targeted by some Cylons that had used shooting and protection on me.

how does this mean I am wrong?
I have an x-shot ability that I used on you. It did not contain a killing action.

you're wrong about me claiming shooting doesn't equal killing

[LaLight]

Okay, Swow, can you summarize your actions like LL did? I might have information regarding this.

I did nothing night 1, I targeted LL with 1 ability that has 2 actions on Night 2.

all the actions have their types written. Like Awa had 2-shot investigative and so on. I was targeted by two actions I mentioned. If you targeted me with miscellanious, for instance, this just means you're a Human

[Swowl]

Ok i am not sure i completely get what you are saying but if someone 100% targeted you with a killing action then you are alive bc of me.

Also my ability is x-shot, which is what i was  assuming the shot terminology meant

[Swowl]

I don't know much of what's going on either.

Could we get some opinions from you at least? who seems skummy? what seems weird? stuff like that.

[Swowl]

Okay, Swow, can you summarize your actions like LL did? I might have information regarding this.

is this ever going to give any information, or is it like you plan with ADK/Math that has produced nothing?

[MiX]

Okay, Swow, can you summarize your actions like LL did? I might have information regarding this.

is this ever going to give any information, or is it like you plan with ADK/Math that has produced nothing?

I don't know. If everyone's this inactive and unresponsive of what's happening in the thread, maybe I'll never do anything at all.

[A Drowned Kernel]

I'm here. Sad town!Awaclus is gone, but I'm glad I read him correctly yesterday.

I haven't caught up on what's been said today yet besides checking the flip, but I'll catch up tomorrow (irl). Based on yesterday and the flip:

Vote: scola

See I think the opposite. I know it's WIFOM but too me awaclus being killed makes it seem like someone is hoping for a scola misexile

Where I'm at personally is

vote: robz

[LaLight]

Robz is not that absent when he's scum, lackluster is a towntrait for him 10 cases out of 10

[LaLight]

I mean sure, he's an easy exile, but there are others out there. I think exiling Jack or Dylan or, you know, WCD is a better option.

Also ash, where you at?

[WestCoastDidds]

Ok i am not sure i completely get what you are saying but if someone 100% targeted you with a killing action then you are alive bc of me.

Also my ability is x-shot, which is what i was  assuming the shot terminology meant

What makes you so sure that you’re the one who protected him?

[Dylan32]

I'm here. Sad town!Awaclus is gone, but I'm glad I read him correctly yesterday.

I haven't caught up on what's been said today yet besides checking the flip, but I'll catch up tomorrow (irl). Based on yesterday and the flip:

Vote: scola

See I think the opposite. I know it's WIFOM but too me awaclus being killed makes it seem like someone is hoping for a scola misexile

Where I'm at personally is

vote: robz

I mean, I get that it's WIFOM, but if Awaclus was given the choice to join scum and instead chose town, I could see scum killing him just because of that rather than anything to do with Scola at all

[A Drowned Kernel]

I'm here. Sad town!Awaclus is gone, but I'm glad I read him correctly yesterday.

I haven't caught up on what's been said today yet besides checking the flip, but I'll catch up tomorrow (irl). Based on yesterday and the flip:

Vote: scola

See I think the opposite. I know it's WIFOM but too me awaclus being killed makes it seem like someone is hoping for a scola misexile

Where I'm at personally is

vote: robz

I mean, I get that it's WIFOM, but if Awaclus was given the choice to join scum and instead chose town, I could see scum killing him just because of that rather than anything to do with Scola at all

In that case why does awaclus flipping town implicate scola?

[scolapasta]

FYI, Tuesdays are my busiest days of the week, but I should be able to keep up and post more tomorrow.

On the plus side, without every other post being me or Awaclus tunneling each other, it does give the lurkers a chance to shine!

Robz, EFHW, Space, Jack, you there?

(robz in particular is hard to figure out; the one game we were scum partners he clearly posted a lot; but I feel that was also true in games we played together were he was town. So I'm more inclined to think it's NAI)

[Jack Rudd]

I'm here.

I'm an inexperienced, to put it lightly, mafia player, and when people are tunnelling each other, my instinct is just to blink and wait for it to die down so I can marshal my thoughts. Transitioning from hybrid social-deduction like BSG to pure social-deduction like Mafia is proving a bit of a challenge. But an enjoyable one.

[scolapasta]

I'm here.

I'm an inexperienced, to put it lightly, mafia player, and when people are tunnelling each other, my instinct is just to blink and wait for it to die down so I can marshal my thoughts. Transitioning from hybrid social-deduction like BSG to pure social-deduction like Mafia is proving a bit of a challenge. But an enjoyable one.

By hybrid social-deduction do you mean the board game?

[Jack Rudd]

I'm here.

I'm an inexperienced, to put it lightly, mafia player, and when people are tunnelling each other, my instinct is just to blink and wait for it to die down so I can marshal my thoughts. Transitioning from hybrid social-deduction like BSG to pure social-deduction like Mafia is proving a bit of a challenge. But an enjoyable one.

By hybrid social-deduction do you mean the board game?

I do indeed.

[Swowl]

Ok i am not sure i completely get what you are saying but if someone 100% targeted you with a killing action then you are alive bc of me.

Also my ability is x-shot, which is what i was  assuming the shot terminology meant

What makes you so sure that you’re the one who protected him?

Because part of my x shot power protects.

[Dylan32]

I'm here. Sad town!Awaclus is gone, but I'm glad I read him correctly yesterday.

I haven't caught up on what's been said today yet besides checking the flip, but I'll catch up tomorrow (irl). Based on yesterday and the flip:

Vote: scola

See I think the opposite. I know it's WIFOM but too me awaclus being killed makes it seem like someone is hoping for a scola misexile

Where I'm at personally is

vote: robz

I mean, I get that it's WIFOM, but if Awaclus was given the choice to join scum and instead chose town, I could see scum killing him just because of that rather than anything to do with Scola at all

In that case why does awaclus flipping town implicate scola?

That had to do with his tunnel on scola and flipping an investigative role. After catching up more thoroughly, I guess it's not a given that he had a result as I thought it was. I do still think scola is the best place for my vote right now until someone else sticks out as scummier.

[Robz888]

Waaaaaaay behind, will catch up soon PROMISE

[EFHW]

Robz is not that absent when he's scum, lackluster is a towntrait for him 10 cases out of 10

If that's true, then we'd always know he was scum from his activity level. And he'd be strongly motivated to be lackluster as scum to capitalize on that reputation.

[EFHW]

Ok i am not sure i completely get what you are saying but if someone 100% targeted you with a killing action then you are alive bc of me.

Also my ability is x-shot, which is what i was  assuming the shot terminology meant

What makes you so sure that you’re the one who protected him?

Sounds like he targeted him with a protective power. The odd thing is the compulsive kill disappearing.

@Swowl, how much of that is an issue in upcoming nights?

[EFHW]

I'm here. Sad town!Awaclus is gone, but I'm glad I read him correctly yesterday.

I haven't caught up on what's been said today yet besides checking the flip, but I'll catch up tomorrow (irl). Based on yesterday and the flip:

Vote: scola

See I think the opposite. I know it's WIFOM but too me awaclus being killed makes it seem like someone is hoping for a scola misexile

Where I'm at personally is

vote: robz

I mean, I get that it's WIFOM, but if Awaclus was given the choice to join scum and instead chose town, I could see scum killing him just because of that rather than anything to do with Scola at all

In that case why does awaclus flipping town implicate scola?

Was scola the one spinning Awaclus's story as scummy?

[EFHW]

Also @Swowl, are you saying your power cancels itself out?

[EFHW]

LL, why do you say miscellaneous power means the person wielding it was human?

[Swowl]

Ok i am not sure i completely get what you are saying but if someone 100% targeted you with a killing action then you are alive bc of me.

Also my ability is x-shot, which is what i was  assuming the shot terminology meant

What makes you so sure that you’re the one who protected him?

Sounds like he targeted him with a protective power. The odd thing is the compulsive kill disappearing.

@Swowl, how much of that is an issue in upcoming nights?

cannot speak to the compulsive kill going away. like I said, no clue.

Also, like I said, I do not know if it will come back or not. However, my current thinking is that since I did NOT have to shoot on N1, that I am not going to come back to a message on N3 that says "you have to shoot tonight" or whatever. I say that in hopes that I will able to make it public prior to needing to use it, if it ever becomes compulsive again.

[Swowl]

Also @Swowl, are you saying your power cancels itself out?

I am not. My vig shot is completely separate from the ability I targeted LL with.
Power 1 - Vig thing
Power 2 - action + protection.

[SpaceAnemone]

This game is so difficult to catch up with, so in case it helps anyone else who's struggling, here's my super-shortened summary of D1, which I've made as I re-read everything:

Game start at #48
LL couldn't interact with voting.
There was a discussion of LL's role, which I got tired of and posted about Helo in-thread because I didn't like town sitting on useful info.
Ashersky made a big deal over his confusion about human/military and maybe about cylons/humans and alignments in general. He laboured the point enough that I felt like it was more the set-up for an ash-plan than it was general confusion, but then I don't think I'm generally good at reading him.
Mathdude picked MiX as VP/
Awaclus stabbed Mathdude and "incapacitated" him, removing mathdude from the game, making MiX president.
Mathdude was confused about how the hand of ExO cards worked, so picked "curfew".
Scola is the first person to say that they know who LL's character is, at #99. MiX says at #113 that he knows, and ADK confirms at #119 that they think they can guess it too, though both express a desire not to say anything in-thread. I spill it at #121 because I think that's more towm-useful than making everyone who doesn't know the flavour read up independently if they're town.
Ash raises a point about MiX, Robz and mathdude using "cylon-aligned" to mean mafia even though faust hasn't told us that's what the mafia side is.
There's some discussion of mathdude and his lack of known meta.
Scola scumreads mathdude for not checking the exact mechanisms at play. I'm mostly picking this up just because I know mathdude flips town.
There's a thing about whether scum want to hunt active PRs.
There was a thread lock and asynchronous kill at #414, but voting was not reset.
Mathdude was Laura Roslin, and was human-aligned.
Awaclus's explanation of the options he was offered starts at #421. (more thoughts at #436).
There's some stuff about a Swowl-ADK link around #469-#474 that suggests Swowl shouldn't beVP, but ADK was a good choice.
#482: EFHW points out that Mathdude had a passive killing power, which was something I'd also missed at the time because it was in a quote box and I generally gloss over those. The roles were:
  * passive, miscellaneous
  * passive, killing
  * miscellaneous, protective
#503 ADK gets to be VP.
There are partial pushes on EFHW and Dylan towards the EoD, but it ends at #564 with no exile.
There's also no NK going into D2.

[MiX]

Prod: ash

By the way, apparently I can only change vice presidents at night, so I guess I missed my chance.

So, who here has scum reads that aren't scola?

[LaLight]

LL, why do you say miscellaneous power means the person wielding it was human?

what, where do I say that?

[LaLight]

Prod: ash

By the way, apparently I can only change vice presidents at night, so I guess I missed my chance.

So, who here has scum reads that aren't scola?

hi

[ashersky]

Sorry, crazy busy IRL.

I also like vote: Robz for now.  See if pressure does anything.

[ashersky]

Is anyone Boomer?  I read more about my character.  Seems I was with Boomer, and then found out Boomer was a bad robot, and then I hated robots?  And then I became a robot, or was one the whole time, which seems like a lazy retcon?

Anyway, if someone is Boomer, does that make them mafia?

[ashersky]

Also, for all the posting since the day began, there's very little content.

I'd also exile MiX for sure at this point.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Prod: ash

By the way, apparently I can only change vice presidents at night, so I guess I missed my chance.

So, who here has scum reads that aren't scola?

Robz, EFHW, dylan. I would exile any of them

[MiX]

Prod: ash

By the way, apparently I can only change vice presidents at night, so I guess I missed my chance.

So, who here has scum reads that aren't scola?

hi

That aren't me either.

Is anyone Boomer?  I read more about my character.  Seems I was with Boomer, and then found out Boomer was a bad robot, and then I hated robots?  And then I became a robot, or was one the whole time, which seems like a lazy retcon?

Anyway, if someone is Boomer, does that make them mafia?

What? Why would that be true?

[MiX]

So has everyone read the current day? I'm still waiting for Robz to say something that demonstrates he's read D3 before I say stuff.

Does anyone want to be tested?

[LaLight]

Prod: ash

By the way, apparently I can only change vice presidents at night, so I guess I missed my chance.

So, who here has scum reads that aren't scola?

Robz, EFHW, dylan. I would exile any of them

well, EFHW is an option

vote: EFHW

[EFHW]

LL, why do you say miscellaneous power means the person wielding it was human?

what, where do I say that?

Here:

Okay, Swow, can you summarize your actions like LL did? I might have information regarding this.

I did nothing night 1, I targeted LL with 1 ability that has 2 actions on Night 2.

all the actions have their types written. Like Awa had 2-shot investigative and so on. I was targeted by two actions I mentioned. If you targeted me with miscellanious, for instance, this just means you're a Human

[EFHW]

Prod: ash

By the way, apparently I can only change vice presidents at night, so I guess I missed my chance.

So, who here has scum reads that aren't scola?

Robz, EFHW, dylan. I would exile any of them

well, EFHW is an option

vote: EFHW

What about your Didds case?

[MiX]

LL, why do you say miscellaneous power means the person wielding it was human?

what, where do I say that?

Here:

Okay, Swow, can you summarize your actions like LL did? I might have information regarding this.

I did nothing night 1, I targeted LL with 1 ability that has 2 actions on Night 2.

all the actions have their types written. Like Awa had 2-shot investigative and so on. I was targeted by two actions I mentioned. If you targeted me with miscellanious, for instance, this just means you're a Human

Because LL can only know what powers cylons used, so if a miscellaneous action was used on LL, it would've had to be used by a human.

[SpaceAnemone]

I'm still working on catching up and re-reading to try to get into the game. Here's my D2 summary:

D2 starts at #566.
Cylon detector mechanic is introduced as a daily possibility.
LL still can't interact with voting.
Awaclus says he doesn't have anything cool to discuss at #572 -- maybe relevant later if people think he had a result.
Ash volunteers to undergo testing
#590 Scola reveals they took a night action and so are hated.
#607 faust reveals that Ash tested as a cylon.
#609 Ash tries to self-vote, which looks a lot like a grab for towncred.
#629 Ash becomes hated for mentioning QT style.
#636 Ash has been saying MiX is scummy for playing in a self-serving way, but MiX still wants Ash to stay alive here.
#657 Ash seems to be hinting at being the Chief, but also being a civilian.
#662 & #664 Awaclus checks some could-be-bastard rules stuff with faust.
#677 Ash still pushing to be exiled, in a post largely about confusion over Tyrol being one of the final 5.
#686 Scola comes in with a catch-up post. I think I agree with a lot of what Scola says.
I feel like Ash is really pushing this character background/alignment stuff a lot. Scola is engaging a lot too.
Huh, there really is a lot of Ash, MiX, Awaclus and Scola going round in circles. There's some new content getting injected gradually, mostly by Scola, but the rest kind of comes across as noise.
#756 Scola declares a scum-read on Awaclus, and says Ash is not scum.
#765 I caught up enough to ask a question that I thought put a sizeable hole in Ash's exile-me-quick logic.
ADK, Scola, Swowl, Awaclus and MiX all posted after that without acknowledging my post.
#776 Ash responded to me, so he can have townpoints for being engaged in the game and not just in whatever posting war the others are locked in.
#813 LL admits to something happening regarding Scola that built some trust. (which was a N1 neighbourhood #816).
#814 LL builds a WCD case, which is refreshingly different from the rest of the posting war. Sadly, I think it's pointing to behaviour that results from the other game we were tied up in just sucking our time and causing anxiety.
#841 I don't think I ever responded to Didds! Yes, hot cross buns are freezable, but my freezer is not big, so at most I could get like 8 buns in there alongside my usual proteins and veg.
#844 Awaclus insisting that Scola is scum.
~#850 discussion on whether the neighbourhood with LL and Scola was created by town or scum.
#871 Awaclus points out that day actions are likely to exist unless LL and Scola are lying about their QT, which ran through N1.
#873 LL says he was targeted by a cylon on Day 1.
#882 Scola claims to be Bill Adama.
#896 Swowl claims "sort of" compulsive vig.
#911 D2 ends with no exile. For my part, I was offline after the other game ended, needing a break for reflection, and just totally missed that this one was so close to deadline.

[SpaceAnemone]

LL, why do you say miscellaneous power means the person wielding it was human?

This one is interesting to me, since that's the way I read LL's post at first too, but in retrospect, I think he only means that a misc action targeting him on N2 could only have been carried out by a human, because otherwise he would have detected it:

Okay, Swow, can you summarize your actions like LL did? I might have information regarding this.

I did nothing night 1, I targeted LL with 1 ability that has 2 actions on Night 2.

all the actions have their types written. Like Awa had 2-shot investigative and so on. I was targeted by two actions I mentioned. If you targeted me with miscellanious, for instance, this just means you're a Human

The slightly iffy point to me is that LL has said a bunch about when he was targeted by cylons, but has not felt the need to say anything about the type of targeting for the D1 incident. Like, I would definitely have said "D1 misc action, N1 nothing, D2 nothing, N2 protection and shooting actions", or something like that, assuming opening a QT counts as a misc. While I know I'm prone to being more precise than the minimum requirement for conversations like these, I also think it's odd to focus on the type for the N2 stuff and consistently not mention the type for the earlier action, particularly because of the otherwise-unexpected QT.

[SpaceAnemone]

Is anyone Boomer?  I read more about my character.  Seems I was with Boomer, and then found out Boomer was a bad robot, and then I hated robots?  And then I became a robot, or was one the whole time, which seems like a lazy retcon?

Anyway, if someone is Boomer, does that make them mafia?

Ash, I have to say I'm kind of scumreading you just because of your dogged return to questions about flavour that are really not supposed to have a bearing on the mafia component of the game.

Do you accept that it's possible for this game to contain cylon-species characters who are human-aligned for the purposes of the town wincon?

[scolapasta]

LL, why do you say miscellaneous power means the person wielding it was human?

This one is interesting to me, since that's the way I read LL's post at first too, but in retrospect, I think he only means that a misc action targeting him on N2 could only have been carried out by a human, because otherwise he would have detected it:

Okay, Swow, can you summarize your actions like LL did? I might have information regarding this.

I did nothing night 1, I targeted LL with 1 ability that has 2 actions on Night 2.

all the actions have their types written. Like Awa had 2-shot investigative and so on. I was targeted by two actions I mentioned. If you targeted me with miscellanious, for instance, this just means you're a Human

The slightly iffy point to me is that LL has said a bunch about when he was targeted by cylons, but has not felt the need to say anything about the type of targeting for the D1 incident. Like, I would definitely have said "D1 misc action, N1 nothing, D2 nothing, N2 protection and shooting actions", or something like that, assuming opening a QT counts as a misc. While I know I'm prone to being more precise than the minimum requirement for conversations like these, I also think it's odd to focus on the type for the N2 stuff and consistently not mention the type for the earlier action, particularly because of the otherwise-unexpected QT.

I had the same thought and asked LL, but haven't gotten an answer yet:

So Lalight, for these actions you knew more than just targeted by a Cylon (killing / protecting).

But for the other action (which we thought could be the neighborhood) you only knew it was a Cylon? No further detail?

[EFHW]

Thanks Space. That summary was really useful.

[EFHW]

For executive order, I think Military Police would be fun and interesting.

[MiX]

For executive order, I think Military Police would be fun and interesting.

Sadly, that's one option that hasn't come up yet.

[WestCoastDidds]

LL, why do you say miscellaneous power means the person wielding it was human?

This one is interesting to me, since that's the way I read LL's post at first too, but in retrospect, I think he only means that a misc action targeting him on N2 could only have been carried out by a human, because otherwise he would have detected it:

Okay, Swow, can you summarize your actions like LL did? I might have information regarding this.

I did nothing night 1, I targeted LL with 1 ability that has 2 actions on Night 2.

all the actions have their types written. Like Awa had 2-shot investigative and so on. I was targeted by two actions I mentioned. If you targeted me with miscellanious, for instance, this just means you're a Human

The slightly iffy point to me is that LL has said a bunch about when he was targeted by cylons, but has not felt the need to say anything about the type of targeting for the D1 incident. Like, I would definitely have said "D1 misc action, N1 nothing, D2 nothing, N2 protection and shooting actions", or something like that, assuming opening a QT counts as a misc. While I know I'm prone to being more precise than the minimum requirement for conversations like these, I also think it's odd to focus on the type for the N2 stuff and consistently not mention the type for the earlier action, particularly because of the otherwise-unexpected QT.

Oh! This is interesting and I hadn't thought much about it.  It definitely seems suspect that he knows what he was targeted with one night, but not what led to the neighborhood, especially if his result is specific enough to know the difference between shooting and killing

[EFHW]

For executive order, I think Military Police would be fun and interesting.

Sadly, that's one option that hasn't come up yet.

What are the options?

[MiX]

For executive order, I think Military Police would be fun and interesting.

Sadly, that's one option that hasn't come up yet.

What are the options?

Does it matter? I've already put the order anyway, Civilian Jurisdiction, so we actually get an exile done.

[scolapasta]

For executive order, I think Military Police would be fun and interesting.

Sadly, that's one option that hasn't come up yet.

What are the options?

Does it matter? I've already put the order anyway, Civilian Jurisdiction, so we actually get an exile done.

So military votes don't matter? Meh. Welp, I guess that relieves my pressure to figure out who to vote for today.

It's a questionable choice*, because (depending on how votes counts are reported), we may learn something about who's civilian vs military.

* as there's NO WAY we were going to go 3 days without a brigging; 2 days is already weird enough

[scolapasta]

For executive order, I think Military Police would be fun and interesting.

Sadly, that's one option that hasn't come up yet.

What are the options?

Does it matter? I've already put the order anyway, Civilian Jurisdiction, so we actually get an exile done.

So military votes don't matter? Meh. Welp, I guess that relieves my pressure to figure out who to vote for today.

It's a questionable choice*, because (depending on how votes counts are reported), we may learn something about who's civilian vs military.

* as there's NO WAY we were going to go 3 days without a brigging; 2 days is already weird enough

And poor LL - assuming it matches his flavor, still doesn't get to vote...

[MiX]

For executive order, I think Military Police would be fun and interesting.

Sadly, that's one option that hasn't come up yet.

What are the options?

Does it matter? I've already put the order anyway, Civilian Jurisdiction, so we actually get an exile done.

So military votes don't matter? Meh. Welp, I guess that relieves my pressure to figure out who to vote for today.

It's a questionable choice*, because (depending on how votes counts are reported), we may learn something about who's civilian vs military.

* as there's NO WAY we were going to go 3 days without a brigging; 2 days is already weird enough

When had you claimed you were military?

PPE: You can all vote, just actually exile someone or plurality exile will come to effect.

[scolapasta]

For executive order, I think Military Police would be fun and interesting.

Sadly, that's one option that hasn't come up yet.

What are the options?

Does it matter? I've already put the order anyway, Civilian Jurisdiction, so we actually get an exile done.

So military votes don't matter? Meh. Welp, I guess that relieves my pressure to figure out who to vote for today.

It's a questionable choice*, because (depending on how votes counts are reported), we may learn something about who's civilian vs military.

* as there's NO WAY we were going to go 3 days without a brigging; 2 days is already weird enough

When had you claimed you were military?

Well, I claimed Commander Adama. I never specifically said I was military, but I think that can be inferred. Also why I never offered to be VP. Though I'd be ok (eventually) renouncing my powers were I to be president.

PPE: You can all vote, just actually exile someone or plurality exile will come to effect.

Yeah, that's now what it says. There's no OR in there.

[MiX]

When had you claimed you were military?

Well, I claimed Commander Adama. I never specifically said I was military, but I think that can be inferred. Also why I never offered to be VP. Though I'd be ok (eventually) renouncing my powers were I to be president.

PPE: You can all vote, just actually exile someone or plurality exile will come to effect.

Yeah, that's now what it says. There's no OR in there.

Oh yes. Right. Of course.

The OR is implied, as it only says there's any voting manipulation at the end of the day. I presume we can still exile normally before then, and thus end the day early.

[scolapasta]

When had you claimed you were military?

Well, I claimed Commander Adama. I never specifically said I was military, but I think that can be inferred. Also why I never offered to be VP. Though I'd be ok (eventually) renouncing my powers were I to be president.

PPE: You can all vote, just actually exile someone or plurality exile will come to effect.

Yeah, that's now what it says. There's no OR in there.

Oh yes. Right. Of course.

The OR is implied, as it only says there's any voting manipulation at the end of the day. I presume we can still exile normally before then, and thus end the day early.

OK, I see what you're saying, if we brig someone before end of the day, the end of the day (effectively) never comes. That does make sense, never mind all. Back to figuring who scum is today.

I do want to say, I'm scum reading space a little. In that they posted some good summaries of D1 and D2 which were very useful, but doesn't really add much new content there. That feels something scum!space might do to buy town cred. I also see how it could just be their process (first review; then analyze / opine), especially in light of the other game ending, so I'm not going to vote there just yet. and wait to see what they posts next.

Also on board the let's here more from Robz wagon.

[WestCoastDidds]

PPE: You can all vote, just actually exile someone or plurality exile will come to effect.

MiX, are you sure? It sounds like only the civilian votes count.

Civilian jurisdiction
Today, an exile will occur even if the game ends without a majority on a player. At the end of this day, the exile is the player with the most civilian votes rather than the player with the most votes.

[Dylan32]

PPE: You can all vote, just actually exile someone or plurality exile will come to effect.

MiX, are you sure? It sounds like only the civilian votes count.

Civilian jurisdiction
Today, an exile will occur even if the game ends without a majority on a player. At the end of this day, the exile is the player with the most civilian votes rather than the player with the most votes.

Yeah, that reads to me like if there is a wagon with more civilian votes, they are the one exiled, even in the event someone with more votes (possibly a majority) total but fewer civilians exists... End of day occurs whether it runs to the deadline or if we choose to end it 3 irl days early. There's nothing explicitly in that order that says the exile is normal unless majority isn't received. To paraphrase, it says an exile happens no matter what. At the end of the day, the exile is determined by civilian votes rather than most votes.

MiX, what were the other two choices? Or did you already say them and I missed them?

[scolapasta]

Funny, I first read it as WCD and Dylan are reading it, BUT then Mix's post changed my mind, now I'm not so sure.

@faust, can you clarify which is the correct interpretation?

[MiX]

PPE: You can all vote, just actually exile someone or plurality exile will come to effect.

MiX, are you sure? It sounds like only the civilian votes count.

Civilian jurisdiction
Today, an exile will occur even if the game ends without a majority on a player. At the end of this day, the exile is the player with the most civilian votes rather than the player with the most votes.

Yeah, that reads to me like if there is a wagon with more civilian votes, they are the one exiled, even in the event someone with more votes (possibly a majority) total but fewer civilians exists... End of day occurs whether it runs to the deadline or if we choose to end it 3 irl days early. There's nothing explicitly in that order that says the exile is normal unless majority isn't received. To paraphrase, it says an exile happens no matter what. At the end of the day, the exile is determined by civilian votes rather than most votes.

MiX, what were the other two choices? Or did you already say them and I missed them?

From my understanding, if you put enough votes on someone, they're exiled. The jurisdiction can't change that.

Does it matter what the other 2 choices were?

[EFHW]

It does matter what the other choices were.

[MiX]

It does matter what the other choices were.

Why?

[LaLight]

LL, why do you say miscellaneous power means the person wielding it was human?

what, where do I say that?

Here:

Okay, Swow, can you summarize your actions like LL did? I might have information regarding this.

I did nothing night 1, I targeted LL with 1 ability that has 2 actions on Night 2.

all the actions have their types written. Like Awa had 2-shot investigative and so on. I was targeted by two actions I mentioned. If you targeted me with miscellanious, for instance, this just means you're a Human

because I wouldn't see misc, I see all the actions made on me by Cylon. misc is just an example

[faust]

Vote Count 3.2

Swowl (1): WestCoastDidds
scolapasta (2): Swowl, Dylan32
Robz888 (2): A Drowned Kernel, ashersky
EFHW (1): LaLight

Not Voting (6): Jack Rudd, SpaceAnemone, MiX, EFHW, scolapasta, Robz888

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to exile. Day 2 ends April 12, 2021, 08:30:00 am.

[faust]

The following executive order has been selected:

Civilian jurisdiction
Today, an exile will occur even if the game ends without a majority on a player. At the end of this day, the exile is the player with the most civilian votes rather than the player with the most votes.

@faust, can you clarify which is the correct interpretation?

The exile is always the player with the most civilian votes, even if the Day end is caused by another player reaching enough votes to exile.

[MiX]

Ah. Well then. That was anti-town.

Vote: Mix

Vote: ADK

Vote: scola

Waiting for Robz...

[MiX]

I wonder if one day there will be a RMM where at least one person doesn't get something wrong. That will be a great day.

If we want to hide who's military, we should still exile before deadline.

Who wants to cylon test? If no one volunteers, I'll do it tomorrow morning (so in like 11 hours), but I'd rather not.

[scolapasta]

LL, why do you say miscellaneous power means the person wielding it was human?

what, where do I say that?

Here:

Okay, Swow, can you summarize your actions like LL did? I might have information regarding this.

I did nothing night 1, I targeted LL with 1 ability that has 2 actions on Night 2.

all the actions have their types written. Like Awa had 2-shot investigative and so on. I was targeted by two actions I mentioned. If you targeted me with miscellanious, for instance, this just means you're a Human

because I wouldn't see misc, I see all the actions made on me by Cylon. misc is just an example

But, micellaneous is a type, so you would see it, no? we know this, because when mathdude was incapacitated, he had miscellaneous types, and actually so did Awaclu

[scolapasta]

I wonder if one day there will be a RMM where at least one person doesn't get something wrong. That will be a great day.

Ha. I mean in some ways its good design to allow scum to hide behind misreading. It at least creates reasonable doubt.

If we want to hide who's military, we should still exile before deadline.

Call me dumb, but how does this help hide who is military? (side question, did you just throw around votes, because you're military?)

Who wants to cylon test? If no one volunteers, I'll do it tomorrow morning (so in like 11 hours), but I'd rather not.

Why not?

[MiX]

LL, why do you say miscellaneous power means the person wielding it was human?

what, where do I say that?

Here:

Okay, Swow, can you summarize your actions like LL did? I might have information regarding this.

I did nothing night 1, I targeted LL with 1 ability that has 2 actions on Night 2.

all the actions have their types written. Like Awa had 2-shot investigative and so on. I was targeted by two actions I mentioned. If you targeted me with miscellanious, for instance, this just means you're a Human

because I wouldn't see misc, I see all the actions made on me by Cylon. misc is just an example

But, micellaneous is a type, so you would see it, no? we know this, because when mathdude was incapacitated, he had miscellaneous types, and actually so did Awaclu

What LL means it that if someone had picked them with a miscellaneous action last night, that person is a human, because LL didn't see any cylon target them with a miscellaneous action last night.

I said this earlier

I wonder if one day there will be a RMM where at least one person doesn't get something wrong. That will be a great day.

Ha. I mean in some ways its good design to allow scum to hide behind misreading. It at least creates reasonable doubt.

If we want to hide who's military, we should still exile before deadline.

Call me dumb, but how does this help hide who is military? (side question, did you just throw around votes, because you're military?)

Who wants to cylon test? If no one volunteers, I'll do it tomorrow morning (so in like 11 hours), but I'd rather not.

Why not?

It is good design, but it's also up to the players to not make mistakes.

Because if we exile before deadline, most votes will be on that person, so they will probably be exiled. And so all that will be known is that "most civilians" were on the biggest wagon, which is hardly anything.

You know I'm not military. I'm the president.

I don't want information about myself, I want to find scum, not my species.

[WestCoastDidds]

LL, why do you say miscellaneous power means the person wielding it was human?

what, where do I say that?

Here:

Okay, Swow, can you summarize your actions like LL did? I might have information regarding this.

I did nothing night 1, I targeted LL with 1 ability that has 2 actions on Night 2.

all the actions have their types written. Like Awa had 2-shot investigative and so on. I was targeted by two actions I mentioned. If you targeted me with miscellanious, for instance, this just means you're a Human

because I wouldn't see misc, I see all the actions made on me by Cylon. misc is just an example

So, you don’t see the actions made on you that are NOT performed by a cylon?

[WestCoastDidds]

Don’t we need to know who the civilians are since they determine the exile.

If LL only sees the actions taken by cylon, and not the actions taken by humans, that is far different than what he said previously.

[MiX]

Don’t we need to know who the civilians are since they determine the exile.

If LL only sees the actions taken by cylon, and not the actions taken by humans, that is far different than what he said previously.

No, if we agree on an exile, so will civilians, right?

[Swowl]

I wonder if one day there will be a RMM where at least one person doesn't get something wrong. That will be a great day.

If we want to hide who's military, we should still exile before deadline.

Who wants to cylon test? If no one volunteers, I'll do it tomorrow morning (so in like 11 hours), but I'd rather not.

who do you want to test?

[MiX]

I wonder if one day there will be a RMM where at least one person doesn't get something wrong. That will be a great day.

If we want to hide who's military, we should still exile before deadline.

Who wants to cylon test? If no one volunteers, I'll do it tomorrow morning (so in like 11 hours), but I'd rather not.

who do you want to test?

Not me, not ash. Not sure who should be tested, but not one of these 2. I hoped someone would have some willingness to be tested.

[Swowl]

It does matter what the other choices were.

Why?

Why hide it?

[Swowl]

I wonder if one day there will be a RMM where at least one person doesn't get something wrong. That will be a great day.

If we want to hide who's military, we should still exile before deadline.

Who wants to cylon test? If no one volunteers, I'll do it tomorrow morning (so in like 11 hours), but I'd rather not.

who do you want to test?

Not me, not ash. Not sure who should be tested, but not one of these 2. I hoped someone would have some willingness to be tested.

I would agree that random is better than either of those choices.

[MiX]

It does matter what the other choices were.

Why?

Why hide it?

It might help scum to know what orders I can't pick next day, and I really don't see it help town. It would if I'm scum, but I'm not, so...

Also, can't help but notice that question has the same vibe as this one:

mathdude: For example, I have a night action that will trigger a turning point.  The action may help me or hurt me (it's sort of unclear, and flavour-wise, it looks like it could do either) but may also do nothing

I'm curious about math saying "me" here, instead of "town".

It's a townslip. Don't ask me why I think that.

Why do you think that?

I wonder if one day there will be a RMM where at least one person doesn't get something wrong. That will be a great day.

If we want to hide who's military, we should still exile before deadline.

Who wants to cylon test? If no one volunteers, I'll do it tomorrow morning (so in like 11 hours), but I'd rather not.

who do you want to test?

Not me, not ash. Not sure who should be tested, but not one of these 2. I hoped someone would have some willingness to be tested.

I would agree that random is better than either of those choices.

Would you prefer random or someone choosing?

[Swowl]

1. forgot the extra card was added ok fair
2. nah, your previous comment was BS, this was a real question. which I am glad I asked, because now that you have 6 cards, they dont auto shuffle and I didn't think about that.
3. I think we should vote. like an exile but we all just do it and whoever is highest we test that person. probably a little late to establish that today though.

[MiX]

1. forgot the extra card was added ok fair
2. nah, your previous comment was BS, this was a real question. which I am glad I asked, because now that you have 6 cards, they dont auto shuffle and I didn't think about that.
3. I think we should vote. like an exile but we all just do it and whoever is highest we test that person. probably a little late to establish that today though.

Let's see how that goes.

Test: ADK

[scolapasta]

LL, why do you say miscellaneous power means the person wielding it was human?

what, where do I say that?

Here:

Okay, Swow, can you summarize your actions like LL did? I might have information regarding this.

I did nothing night 1, I targeted LL with 1 ability that has 2 actions on Night 2.

all the actions have their types written. Like Awa had 2-shot investigative and so on. I was targeted by two actions I mentioned. If you targeted me with miscellanious, for instance, this just means you're a Human

because I wouldn't see misc, I see all the actions made on me by Cylon. misc is just an example

But, micellaneous is a type, so you would see it, no? we know this, because when mathdude was incapacitated, he had miscellaneous types, and actually so did Awaclu

What LL means it that if someone had picked them with a miscellaneous action last night, that person is a human, because LL didn't see any cylon target them with a miscellaneous action last night.

I said this earlier

AH, this makes sense to me now. Thanks.

Though I still want to know if he saw anything more about the Cylon power that targeted him on D1. Or if there's some reason he doesn't know that.

I wonder if one day there will be a RMM where at least one person doesn't get something wrong. That will be a great day.

Ha. I mean in some ways its good design to allow scum to hide behind misreading. It at least creates reasonable doubt.

If we want to hide who's military, we should still exile before deadline.

Call me dumb, but how does this help hide who is military? (side question, did you just throw around votes, because you're military?)

Who wants to cylon test? If no one volunteers, I'll do it tomorrow morning (so in like 11 hours), but I'd rather not.

Why not?

It is good design, but it's also up to the players to not make mistakes.

Because if we exile before deadline, most votes will be on that person, so they will probably be exiled. And so all that will be known is that "most civilians" were on the biggest wagon, which is hardly anything.

You know I'm not military. I'm the president.

I don't want information about myself, I want to find scum, not my species.

Agreed on 1st point, especially as I read mistakes as scummy, and they often are not.

Re: exile before deadline, I don't know about this. It also depends on how many we have of each; if there's a lot more military, then say there a wagon of 9 and 1 of 3; it's not crazy to imagine if there are 7 military and 5 civiies, that the 3 wagon wins.

We don't know you're not military. It's also possible you gave up your role powers when becoming president. I don't think that would change your military status. (that said, it did seem unlikely you would do that, and with no turning point, likely you are civilian). I guess I was just trying to interpret your vote for multiple people in one post vote, as otherwise it's pointless.

PPE: several

[MiX]

I did claim civilian when I became the president, all the way back in D1.

[scolapasta]

I did claim civilian when I became the president, all the way back in D1.

OK, I must have missed that. I'll go hunt it down.

[scolapasta]

Found it:

Sigh...........I couldn't even protect math. I feel so useless right now, all the things we talked about, everything that we did privately and publicly...useless, now.

Okay, now for bureaucratic things...I'm a civilian, of course, and now I need to pick a VP. If anyone wants to speak up regarding this, do so.

Though it reads... well MiXian. That extra "of course" - when it's also possible you gave up your powers... but this confirms you claimed it.

That said, I'm trying to determine a scenario where you would fake this claim. And I'm not really seeing it.

[scolapasta]

@Swowl:

I just want to understand you had a compulsive shot you had to take on N2, but then when N2 started you were informed you no longer had to take it? If so, have you determined why that is that you didn't?

[MiX]

Found it:

Sigh...........I couldn't even protect math. I feel so useless right now, all the things we talked about, everything that we did privately and publicly...useless, now.

Okay, now for bureaucratic things...I'm a civilian, of course, and now I need to pick a VP. If anyone wants to speak up regarding this, do so.

Though it reads... well MiXian. That extra "of course" - when it's also possible you gave up your powers... but this confirms you claimed it.

That said, I'm trying to determine a scenario where you would fake this claim. And I'm not really seeing it.

It doesn't make sense with the character I claimed to ADK, so if you trust them, you should probably trust this claim. Besides, it's part of why I picked civilian jurisdiction.

[scolapasta]

Found it:

Sigh...........I couldn't even protect math. I feel so useless right now, all the things we talked about, everything that we did privately and publicly...useless, now.

Okay, now for bureaucratic things...I'm a civilian, of course, and now I need to pick a VP. If anyone wants to speak up regarding this, do so.

Though it reads... well MiXian. That extra "of course" - when it's also possible you gave up your powers... but this confirms you claimed it.

That said, I'm trying to determine a scenario where you would fake this claim. And I'm not really seeing it.

It doesn't make sense with the character I claimed to ADK, so if you trust them, you should probably trust this claim.

I mean, I lean towards trusting the claim, but this logic here doesn't make any sense to me.

[A Drowned Kernel]

I'm willing to be tested if no one else objects

[A Drowned Kernel]

The following executive order has been selected:

Civilian jurisdiction
Today, an exile will occur even if the game ends without a majority on a player. At the end of this day, the exile is the player with the most civilian votes rather than the player with the most votes.

@faust, can you clarify which is the correct interpretation?

The exile is always the player with the most civilian votes, even if the Day end is caused by another player reaching enough votes to exile.

I also misinterpreted this, and would not have suggested that mix pick if I had realized how it actually worked

[EFHW]

It does matter what the other choices were.

Why?

Why hide it?

And the choice you make gives us information about you.

[Dylan32]

It does matter what the other choices were.

Why?

Why hide it?

And the choice you make gives us information about you.

Yeah, this ^.

[MiX]

It does matter what the other choices were.

Why?

Why hide it?

And the choice you make gives us information about you.

Information about me is anti-town, or I would've given it. Besides, you always know what I chose.

[WestCoastDidds]

Jack, how are you doing? Can you give us some insight into how this game is going for you? Are you learning anything at night? What do you you think about the fact that only civilian votes count today? What do you think about LaLight? Why do you think he couldn’t vote D2?

[Jack Rudd]

No idea what's going on with LaLight; maybe the Cylons sabotaged his ship or something. (Presumably his vote won't count today, either, as I think we've settled that he's Helo, and Helo is very definitely military.)

The civilian votes thing is interesting; it may settle who's civilian and who's military, if that's going to matter.

[ashersky]

You know I'm not military. I'm the president.

vote: MiX

[ashersky]

The exile is always the player with the most civilian votes, even if the Day end is caused by another player reaching enough votes to exile.

This only matters if there is more than one wagon.  If we care, we can just ask anyone not voting for the exile to unvote.  If they don't, we can make assumptions about the action.

Or we can go the other way and manipulate wagons specifically to figure things out.  We all claim, or put claimed civilians in one wagon, or whatever.  Plenty of options for using this power to gain information.

[ashersky]

Well, I claimed Commander Adama. I never specifically said I was military, but I think that can be inferred. Also why I never offered to be VP. Though I'd be ok (eventually) renouncing my powers were I to be president.

Just because your flavor character is clearly in the military, that definitely means absolutely nothing in this game.  I'm a military character and I am civilian.

Like, someone could claim to be Worf, a Klingon who was saved from a ship floating dead in space after the BSG picked up a distress signal and I'd believe them.  That's about the level of consistency I'm finding here.

[ashersky]

Is anyone Boomer?  I read more about my character.  Seems I was with Boomer, and then found out Boomer was a bad robot, and then I hated robots?  And then I became a robot, or was one the whole time, which seems like a lazy retcon?

Anyway, if someone is Boomer, does that make them mafia?

Ash, I have to say I'm kind of scumreading you just because of your dogged return to questions about flavour that are really not supposed to have a bearing on the mafia component of the game.

Do you accept that it's possible for this game to contain cylon-species characters who are human-aligned for the purposes of the town wincon?

Space, I have to say I'm kind of mafiareading you just because you say you are kind of mafiareading me but were/are unwilling to do anything about it (make a case, or at least vote).  I have the same kind of read on any player who chooses to accuse me of mafia play without backing it up.

Like, I literally begged to be exiled yesterday and I couldn't even be the biggest wagon!

As for your question of acceptance -- yesterday, definitely not.  Today?  I'd accept that Darth Maul is human-aligned in the fight against Voldemort who is trying to take over the BSG, an AI-run space ship that is controlled by an ancillary named Justin Bieber.

[ashersky]

Is anyone Boomer?  I read more about my character.  Seems I was with Boomer, and then found out Boomer was a bad robot, and then I hated robots?  And then I became a robot, or was one the whole time, which seems like a lazy retcon?

Anyway, if someone is Boomer, does that make them mafia?

What? Why would that be true?

Why wouldn't it be true?

[ashersky]

I think I'm caught up.

MiX is definitely mafia.  He is the best exile.
ash is definitely a potential mafia.  He is the second-best exile.

Third-best exile is among:
Jack Rudd (it's late enough in the game with plenty of commentary to warrant more activity; now it's just mafia using the cover of newbie)
Robz888 (it's late enough in the game with plenty of commentary to warrant more activity; now it's just mafia using the cover of lazy!Robz is town)
Space and any other player who claims to mafiaread me but doesn't vote.

[LaLight]

So Lalight, for these actions you knew more than just targeted by a Cylon (killing / protecting).

But for the other action (which we thought could be the neighborhood) you only knew it was a Cylon? No further detail?

I didn't have that power then

[LaLight]

LL, why do you say miscellaneous power means the person wielding it was human?

what, where do I say that?

Here:

Okay, Swow, can you summarize your actions like LL did? I might have information regarding this.

I did nothing night 1, I targeted LL with 1 ability that has 2 actions on Night 2.

all the actions have their types written. Like Awa had 2-shot investigative and so on. I was targeted by two actions I mentioned. If you targeted me with miscellanious, for instance, this just means you're a Human

because I wouldn't see misc, I see all the actions made on me by Cylon. misc is just an example

But, micellaneous is a type, so you would see it, no? we know this, because when mathdude was incapacitated, he had miscellaneous types, and actually so did Awaclu

i would if Cylon would use it on me, not human

[LaLight]

Don’t we need to know who the civilians are since they determine the exile.

If LL only sees the actions taken by cylon, and not the actions taken by humans, that is far different than what he said previously.

I never claimed something else! My power is as follows:

In the end of the game phase i get to know if I was targeted by any cylons and if I was, I get to know the types of actions I was targeted by those Cylons. I can not be more clear than this

[LaLight]

Prod: ash

By the way, apparently I can only change vice presidents at night, so I guess I missed my chance.

So, who here has scum reads that aren't scola?

Robz, EFHW, dylan. I would exile any of them

well, EFHW is an option

vote: EFHW

What about your Didds case?

sigh

literally no one has ever agreed with a single read I had in this game. I could be a tree stump for all it matters

[LaLight]

anyway, yeah, my votes don't matter again

[LaLight]

I am very demotivated by the fact everyone ignores pretty much everything I say, except my claims

[LaLight]

So Lalight, for these actions you knew more than just targeted by a Cylon (killing / protecting).

But for the other action (which we thought could be the neighborhood) you only knew it was a Cylon? No further detail?

I didn't have that power then

I got this power by choosing to stay away for one more day

[Dylan32]

Prod: ash

By the way, apparently I can only change vice presidents at night, so I guess I missed my chance.

So, who here has scum reads that aren't scola?

Robz, EFHW, dylan. I would exile any of them

well, EFHW is an option

vote: EFHW

What about your Didds case?

sigh

literally no one has ever agreed with a single read I had in this game. I could be a tree stump for all it matters

You realize that was EFHW asking about one of your other reads after you voted for EFHW, right? Not someone else saying no you're wrong, you said something else earlier.

anyway, yeah, my votes don't matter again

Is this in a mechanical sense where they just don't count like previous days, a different mechanical reason, or just nobody listens to you?

[LaLight]

Is this in a mechanical sense where they just don't count like previous days, a different mechanical reason, or just nobody listens to you?

well, I am military

[faust]

Vote Count 3.3

Swowl (1): WestCoastDidds
scolapasta (3): Swowl, Dylan32, MiX
Robz888 (1): A Drowned Kernel
EFHW (1): LaLight
MiX (1): ashersky

Not Voting (5): Jack Rudd, SpaceAnemone, EFHW, scolapasta, Robz888

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to exile. Day 2 ends April 12, 2021, 08:30:00 am.

[WestCoastDidds]

Don’t we need to know who the civilians are since they determine the exile.

If LL only sees the actions taken by cylon, and not the actions taken by humans, that is far different than what he said previously.

I never claimed something else! My power is as follows:

In the end of the game phase i get to know if I was targeted by any cylons and if I was, I get to know the types of actions I was targeted by those Cylons. I can not be more clear than this

I apologize for my confusion, then. I didn’t realize that if you had been targeted by a human, you’d be unaware that it had happened. The talk was only about cylons, but it was not clear (to me at least) you were unaware of human actions.

[WestCoastDidds]

I am very demotivated by the fact everyone ignores pretty much everything I say, except my claims

I don’t see that happening, but I’m sorry if you are frustrated.

I see this game, so far, as a series of duos and trios talking about different things, but rarely all of us talking together which I think is why it’s hard for some people to get into it and hard for others to navigate. And now that (probably) half the people have votes that don’t count, it’s even harder.

Speaking of, vote: MiX I’m military so it doesn’t matter. A disenfranchisement protest.

[A Drowned Kernel]

anyway, yeah, my votes don't matter again

I am extremely sorry and am also kind of frustrated by not really being able to vote

[A Drowned Kernel]

Anyway this kind of got swept under the rug but no one has protested so

Undergo Testing

[MiX]

anyway, yeah, my votes don't matter again

I am extremely sorry and am also kind of frustrated by not really being able to vote

This. Just this, a bunch of times. Except I can vote.

[faust]

Undergo Testing

A Drowned Kernel is human.

[faust]

Further clarification on the executive order: Ties on cilivian votes will be broken by the military votes.

[scolapasta]

Further clarification on the executive order: Ties on cilivian votes will be broken by the military votes.

Yay, our votes do matter again. Well sort of. More like 1/2 votes...

[WestCoastDidds]

Further clarification on the executive order: Ties on cilivian votes will be broken by the military votes.

Yay, our votes do matter again. Well sort of. More like 1/2 votes...

Mild hooray.

[scolapasta]

Further clarification on the executive order: Ties on cilivian votes will be broken by the military votes.

Yay, our votes do matter again. Well sort of. More like 1/2 votes...

Mild hooray.

SO SAY SOME OF US.

[Dylan32]

I leave it as an exercise for the reader to decide whether this is a full vote or a tiebreaker vote, but

Vote: MiX

[MiX]

I leave it as an exercise for the reader to decide whether this is a full vote or a tiebreaker vote, but

Vote: MiX

Why do you think I'm scum?

Prod: Robz

[scolapasta]

So Lalight, for these actions you knew more than just targeted by a Cylon (killing / protecting).

But for the other action (which we thought could be the neighborhood) you only knew it was a Cylon? No further detail?

I didn't have that power then

I got this power by choosing to stay away for one more day

So just to be clear: you're saying that you originally had the power to tell if you were targeted by a Cylon (I assume as a simple yes/no and not a count), Then, by staying away a 2nd day, it was enhanced to also tell you what kind of power. Do I have that correct?

[scolapasta]

I leave it as an exercise for the reader to decide whether this is a full vote or a tiebreaker vote, but

Vote: MiX

With MiX being hard to read, I'm not yet sure I have a strong enough pull to vote this way. But I would be OK with ADK as the next president.

[A Drowned Kernel]

I leave it as an exercise for the reader to decide whether this is a full vote or a tiebreaker vote, but

Vote: MiX

With MiX being hard to read, I'm not yet sure I have a strong enough pull to vote this way. But I would be OK with ADK as the next president.

ADK would rather have mix stay president

[Dylan32]

I leave it as an exercise for the reader to decide whether this is a full vote or a tiebreaker vote, but

Vote: MiX

Why do you think I'm scum?

Prod: Robz

I didn't care for how some of the you and mathdude stuff went down, thinking at different points that your behavior in that was either anti-town or scummy. You are on the shortlist of people who benefited from taking out mathdude (if it was a choice anyone in game made and not a random or scripted event obviously), and now your choice of EO (that is your choice to make thanks to that event) seems pretty antitown, if not outright scummy. Then your play today has just read as slightly scummy to me anyway, in a way that your normal self generally hasn't since our first game together when I had no idea what you were like.  So, do I have super hard reason to believe you are scum? I guess not really, but it's definitely more than I have for basically anyone else not named scolapasta.

[MiX]

I leave it as an exercise for the reader to decide whether this is a full vote or a tiebreaker vote, but

Vote: MiX

Why do you think I'm scum?

Prod: Robz

I didn't care for how some of the you and mathdude stuff went down, thinking at different points that your behavior in that was either anti-town or scummy. You are on the shortlist of people who benefited from taking out mathdude (if it was a choice anyone in game made and not a random or scripted event obviously), and now your choice of EO (that is your choice to make thanks to that event) seems pretty antitown, if not outright scummy. Then your play today has just read as slightly scummy to me anyway, in a way that your normal self generally hasn't since our first game together when I had no idea what you were like.  So, do I have super hard reason to believe you are scum? I guess not really, but it's definitely more than I have for basically anyone else not named scolapasta.

Being the president is not something I wanted to be. I wanted math to be the president because he was town, and he was obviously town. If I was scum, I could just control him into doing what I want anyway.

There's a difference between anti-town and scummy. One means something that hurts town's winrate. The other means something that is more likely to come from scum than town. I just made the same mistake ADK did when reading it. I still think it's obvious that my interpretation is the correct one, based on the words that are written, but faust thinks differently so what do I know. If you must know, the other options were Mandatory Testing, which feels absolutely useless, and Prioritize, which is clearly anti-town.

You're right that I feel different: I am different. I don't care about town winning this game as much as I do the others. Not yet anyway. Take this as you will.

Right now I'm focused on mechanics, and I can't say anything else until Robz appears. So until then, I have nothing to do. In terms of reads, I think we should honor Awaclus' reads and potential result on scola.

[scolapasta]

You're right that I feel different: I am different. I don't care about town winning this game as much as I do the others. Not yet anyway. Take this as you will.

What are "the others" here?

[MiX]

You're right that I feel different: I am different. I don't care about town winning this game as much as I do the others. Not yet anyway. Take this as you will.

What are "the others" here?

Previous games where I have been town.

[SpaceAnemone]

A bunch of rambly summaries of where I am with the various players. Some of these clearly need targeted re-reads, but I feel like it's a decent start.

I like the energy Scola is putting into the game, including a load of questions to keep people in check. That seems townie, at least in as much as they're the kinds of things I might have wanted to ask if he hadn't gotten there first.
I feel like EFHW and Dylan are also working to catch up like I am, and are in a similar place.
Didds seemed more on the ball about the ExO mechanics than I expected, given that she's not usually such a setup person, but at the same time it's definitely not something she couldn't just have done, so I'm not reading it as scummy. I also like the way she's trying to get Jack into the game by offering some hooks to respond to, because having an unknown newbie who's not really participating could lead to an easy mixile later if they're town.
I agree with a couple of others that MiX is anti-town, but I've really found the controlling language he's using really quite offensive or upsetting at various points, so I'm not sure how badly that's colouring my impression there.
Jack is just a total unknown.
Ash is playing in a very one-track something-to-prove way, which I feel just isn't moving us on much right now, focused as it is only on his own character and not adding anything in the interactions. OTOH, I'm less inclined to vote for him because of how keen he is to be exiled on what seems like pure supposition and/or to prove some hidden point.
LL's claims seem weird but believable. Seems like he traded a second day of not voting for the ability to see the type of action as well as just seeing that a cylon action had occurred. That's quite RMM-specific, so I kind of believe it.
Swowl was super-around at EoD1, though that might be as much to do with timezone as a townie desire to see an exile go through. Did spend a lot of time poking at Awaclus, who turned out to be townie. Weird compulsive-vig-protection thing that doesn't quite seem to line up with LL's claims.
When I did a full re-read, ADK posted less than I'd thought. In a game with so many posts going round in circles, that seems like a good thing. I definitely had an early-game disagreement over revealing the Helo stuff, but I think that's more likely philosophical than alignment-related.
Robz is still in the game?

I'll go with Vote: Swowl for now, since not voting isn't a state I want to be in, however badly I did with voting on the previous game-days. I'm still not feeling totally on top of this game yet, in spite of the catch-ups.

[WestCoastDidds]

Hi Space! Happy birthday! I hope there was cake! Or at least wafers!

I’m mildly proud of myself for reading the XO correctly! Set up is not my strong suit, but this was more of rhetorical puzzle than a set up one. And rhetoric I can do.

[EFHW]

I think controlling!MiX is more likely to be scum!MiX.

[EFHW]

vote: MiX

[EFHW]

Prod: ash

By the way, apparently I can only change vice presidents at night, so I guess I missed my chance.

So, who here has scum reads that aren't scola?

Robz, EFHW, dylan. I would exile any of them

well, EFHW is an option

vote: EFHW

What about your Didds case?

sigh

literally no one has ever agreed with a single read I had in this game. I could be a tree stump for all it matters

I don't get why you are complaining here. You said yourself that the Didds case was mostly a gut read. You can't be expecting me to agree with your vote on me, and with no explanation you aren't likely to convince others. At the risk of discovering that I ignored something you said, is there anything else you wanted a response to?

[Swowl]

@Swowl: I just want to understand you had a compulsive shot you had to take on N2, but then when N2 started you were informed you no longer had to take it? If so, have you determined why that is that you didn't?

Answered this a few times now. But yes, correct. And no, I have no idea what triggered the non-compulsive element.

Information about me is anti-town, or I would've given it. Besides, you always know what I chose.

What is more anti town (real question)... you giving the information or getting lynched over not doing so.

Further clarification on the executive order: Ties on cilivian votes will be broken by the military votes.

So, with the info we have so far I wanna make sure I have this right...
1. We are plurality, 100% based on the votes of civilians, with the minor exception that if there is a tie, military votes will be the breaker.
2. In a situation where Player A gets exiled prior to EOD with 7 on them... if 2/7 of those people are civis... but then on like a random player B there are 3 civis.. player B is Exiled?

I think controlling!MiX is more likely to be scum!MiX.

I think MiX as Prez in this game would do it as either alignment. So not "not skum", but not "only skum".

[LaLight]

So Lalight, for these actions you knew more than just targeted by a Cylon (killing / protecting).

But for the other action (which we thought could be the neighborhood) you only knew it was a Cylon? No further detail?

I didn't have that power then

I got this power by choosing to stay away for one more day

So just to be clear: you're saying that you originally had the power to tell if you were targeted by a Cylon (I assume as a simple yes/no and not a count), Then, by staying away a 2nd day, it was enhanced to also tell you what kind of power. Do I have that correct?

yes.

[ashersky]

So I wrote six posts in a row yesterday when I had time to review and such.  LaLight was the first to post after them, but literally seemed like he hadn't seen them at all.  And the game has just continued from there.

Did my six posts actually post?  I went back and looked and they were all there on my screen.

[LaLight]

I think I'm caught up.

MiX is definitely mafia.  He is the best exile.
ash is definitely a potential mafia.  He is the second-best exile.

Third-best exile is among:
Jack Rudd (it's late enough in the game with plenty of commentary to warrant more activity; now it's just mafia using the cover of newbie)
Robz888 (it's late enough in the game with plenty of commentary to warrant more activity; now it's just mafia using the cover of lazy!Robz is town)
Space and any other player who claims to mafiaread me but doesn't vote.

I don't know what to answer to other posts, but this one is quite a good one with which I mostly agree.

let's vote: MiX and see where it goes

[MiX]

So I wrote six posts in a row yesterday when I had time to review and such.  LaLight was the first to post after them, but literally seemed like he hadn't seen them at all.  And the game has just continued from there.

Did my six posts actually post?  I went back and looked and they were all there on my screen.

Your posts were pretty much all just the same as ones you made yesterday, except the last one, which looks at non-me non-ash people. I'd rather exile scola, so, meh.

Is anyone Boomer?  I read more about my character.  Seems I was with Boomer, and then found out Boomer was a bad robot, and then I hated robots?  And then I became a robot, or was one the whole time, which seems like a lazy retcon?

Anyway, if someone is Boomer, does that make them mafia?

What? Why would that be true?

Why wouldn't it be true?

Like, look at this one. What am I supposed to say? Yes, Boomer can be scum. Boomer can also be town. Boomer can also be town that turns scum. Boomer can also be a third-party.

I think controlling!MiX is more likely to be scum!MiX.

What am I controlling? I'm just trying to organize things, since I'm one of the people with things to organize (the XOs).

Information about me is anti-town, or I would've given it. Besides, you always know what I chose.

What is more anti town (real question)... you giving the information or getting lynched over not doing so.

Further clarification on the executive order: Ties on cilivian votes will be broken by the military votes.

So, with the info we have so far I wanna make sure I have this right...
1. We are plurality, 100% based on the votes of civilians, with the minor exception that if there is a tie, military votes will be the breaker.
2. In a situation where Player A gets exiled prior to EOD with 7 on them... if 2/7 of those people are civis... but then on like a random player B there are 3 civis.. player B is Exiled?

Town voting for me for not saying what the orders were. I also already answered it: mandatory testing and prioritize.

You are correct, at least by my (current) understanding.

I think I'm caught up.

MiX is definitely mafia.  He is the best exile.
ash is definitely a potential mafia.  He is the second-best exile.

Third-best exile is among:
Jack Rudd (it's late enough in the game with plenty of commentary to warrant more activity; now it's just mafia using the cover of newbie)
Robz888 (it's late enough in the game with plenty of commentary to warrant more activity; now it's just mafia using the cover of lazy!Robz is town)
Space and any other player who claims to mafiaread me but doesn't vote.

I don't know what to answer to other posts, but this one is quite a good one with which I mostly agree.

let's vote: MiX and see where it goes

There is nothing in this post to agree with.

[LaLight]

also what tickled me, why do you use "mafiaread" and "mafia" as a whole instead of scum? that's not a concern, just curiosity. Knowing you there's something beneath it

[LaLight]

There is nothing in this post to agree with.

I would LOVE if I could decide for myself.

[MiX]

There is nothing in this post to agree with.

I would LOVE if I could decide for myself.

You're just salty I (and ADK) misread the order now. If enough people vote me, I will be exiled. Stop throwing votes around like they're meaningless.

[LaLight]

There is nothing in this post to agree with.

I would LOVE if I could decide for myself.

You're just salty I (and ADK) misread the order now.

Wow, THIS is gaslighting. I didn't eve remotely think about this, I don't care in a slightest that you misread, shit happens

[LaLight]

It took me a long, long time to get used to your playstyle and somehow I still feel very irritated at times

[MiX]

There is nothing in this post to agree with.

I would LOVE if I could decide for myself.

Oh, you mean that you can decide if you can agree with the post or not. Well you could start by saying what you agree with and why you agree with it.

There is nothing in this post to agree with.

I would LOVE if I could decide for myself.

You're just salty I (and ADK) misread the order now.

Wow, THIS is gaslighting. I didn't eve remotely think about this, I don't care in a slightest that you misread, shit happens

I thought you meant that you can't decide who's exiled because of the order, sorry.

It took me a long, long time to get used to your playstyle and somehow I still feel very irritated at times

Yes, yes, I'm still getting used to being exiled based on my town playstyle and not my scum playstyle.


Also, I would really recommend not giving ADK presidency. I'm sure he'd agree, as he also wants me to be president.

[LaLight]

Oh, you mean that you can decide if you can agree with the post or not. Well you could start by saying what you agree with and why you agree with it.

I agree with all ash's scumreads and their reasoning except himself

[faust]

Vote Count 3.4

scolapasta (2): Swowl, MiX
Robz888 (1): A Drowned Kernel
MiX (5): ashersky, WestCoastDidds, Dylan32, EFHW, LaLight
Swowl (1): SpaceAnemone

Not Voting (3): Jack Rudd, scolapasta, Robz888

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to exile. Day 2 ends April 12, 2021, 08:30:00 am.

Prod: Robz

Prod sent.

[EFHW]

@LL now you ignored my question to you at post 1109(ish).

[LaLight]

I don't get why you are complaining here. You said yourself that the Didds case was mostly a gut read. You can't be expecting me to agree with your vote on me, and with no explanation you aren't likely to convince others. At the risk of discovering that I ignored something you said, is there anything else you wanted a response to?

oh, I am sorry. Mostly I meant that the only response to Didds' case was MiXian vote on me that didn't work anyway and the reaction from Didds herself. Yes, I know this was a gut read, but it was a case that had some explanation of why I feel like I feel and I do understand that silence of others about this case probably means they don't think this way at all, but what I have meant was that the simple "I don't think Didds is scum because of your reasons because she does this and this when she's town and also something else" would be amazing to hear.

As of now I don't really feel ignored, because I feel like in this game town is so, so scattered and lost, so practically no one works with someone else and we failed to exile for two days in a row (is there even a game this was the case throughout the whole fds history?) and this is kind of sad.

Actually thank you for creating this conversation.

[WestCoastDidds]

I’ve been thinking a lot about how weird the interactions have been, and why we can’t seem to work together. I don’t have any answers, but it’s weird.  Some of it was too many of us being distracted in the beginning, and now having military votes revoked isn’t helping morale. The deadlines at times most of us are asleep is also contributing. But really, we just need to do better.

MIX is currently at E-2. At least two military are voting for him, so military can ban together to end the day but then the person with the most civilian votes actually gets exiled, which might not be what we want. I think everyone should have a vote somewhere. Not voting makes the (civilian) votes of those voting way more powerful. Two scum camping votes on someone below the radar might lead to the exile of the scum are civvies. Anyway, vote!

I’m pretty salty about being disenfranchised, but I don’t want to be part of the day ending before we are ready so I’ll go back to
Vote: swowl

[A Drowned Kernel]

I think controlling!MiX is more likely to be scum!MiX.

How exactly is mix being "controlling"?

[scolapasta]

So I wrote six posts in a row yesterday when I had time to review and such.  LaLight was the first to post after them, but literally seemed like he hadn't seen them at all.  And the game has just continued from there.

Did my six posts actually post?  I went back and looked and they were all there on my screen.

Sorry about that. I meant to respond to at least one. What happens is I wake up, read the latest, then get my day started. By the time I was able to find time to post, I had forgotten there was something. Anyway, it wasn't super critical, but here:

Well, I claimed Commander Adama. I never specifically said I was military, but I think that can be inferred. Also why I never offered to be VP. Though I'd be ok (eventually) renouncing my powers were I to be president.

Just because your flavor character is clearly in the military, that definitely means absolutely nothing in this game.  I'm a military character and I am civilian.

Like, someone could claim to be Worf, a Klingon who was saved from a ship floating dead in space after the BSG picked up a distress signal and I'd believe them.  That's about the level of consistency I'm finding here.

Well, we have two at least characters who should be and are military (Adama and Helo). And at least one where Civilian overlapped (Roslin). And when you asked your question, I don't recall anyone else saying (or willing to say) that they had the same disparity. It's possible that there are others and they either chose not to reveal or are from the group that wasn't posting much due to the othe rgame (let's call them the Final 5, if we include Swowl as moderator ). Or maybe faust was unsure with chief because he is a mechanic. Or you're lying to confuse things.

Either way, there was enough reason for me to assume that my being Adama implied my being military.

[scolapasta]

I think controlling!MiX is more likely to be scum!MiX.

How exactly is mix being "controlling"?

There's plenty from D1 while mathdude was president, but I don't have time to go fetch them (vaccine appointment in 1 hr! woot!).

But here's a recent post using MiX's own language:

Being the president is not something I wanted to be. I wanted math to be the president because he was town, and he was obviously town. If I was scum, I could just control him into doing what I want anyway.

And before the "but he says 'If I was scum'" brigade shows up, does anyone doubt town!MiX wouldn't play the same way, the exception being that doing the the things he wants would be pro-town?

[ashersky]

also what tickled me, why do you use "mafiaread" and "mafia" as a whole instead of scum? that's not a concern, just curiosity. Knowing you there's something beneath it

It’s just a conscious effort of my part to stop using the word “scum.”  I used it a ton before, obviously, but for some reason it bothers me to say now.  Not sure why, as I don’t know that it has a problematic nuance or anything.  If I want to differentiate between different types of non-town, I’ll write it out to make it clear.

[MiX]

I think controlling!MiX is more likely to be scum!MiX.

How exactly is mix being "controlling"?

There's plenty from D1 while mathdude was president, but I don't have time to go fetch them (vaccine appointment in 1 hr! woot!).

But here's a recent post using MiX's own language:

Being the president is not something I wanted to be. I wanted math to be the president because he was town, and he was obviously town. If I was scum, I could just control him into doing what I want anyway.

And before the "but he says 'If I was scum'" brigade shows up, does anyone doubt town!MiX wouldn't play the same way, the exception being that doing the the things he wants would be pro-town?

And thus the case of controlling!mix being scum!mix falls apart without me having to argue for it.

For the record, I wouldn't call what I was trying to do with math controlling, I'd call it trying to read him, and then trying to teamwork. Besides, I changed considerabky onve math flipped.

[WestCoastDidds]

I will say that MiX’s style is often bossy which reads as controlling even if he’s not actually controlling anything.

[Robz888]

I will attempt to catch up later today.

[EFHW]

I think controlling!MiX is more likely to be scum!MiX.

How exactly is mix being "controlling"?

Being the president is not something I wanted to be. I wanted math to be the president because he was town, and he was obviously town. If I was scum, I could just control him into doing what I want anyway.

This reminding me of when I was scum with him.

[EFHW]

ninja'd by pasta

[EFHW]

I will say that MiX’s style is often bossy which reads as controlling even if he’s not actually controlling anything.

There is a different feel this time. More omnipotent than usual.

[scolapasta]

I think controlling!MiX is more likely to be scum!MiX.

How exactly is mix being "controlling"?

There's plenty from D1 while mathdude was president, but I don't have time to go fetch them (vaccine appointment in 1 hr! woot!).

But here's a recent post using MiX's own language:

Being the president is not something I wanted to be. I wanted math to be the president because he was town, and he was obviously town. If I was scum, I could just control him into doing what I want anyway.

And before the "but he says 'If I was scum'" brigade shows up, does anyone doubt town!MiX wouldn't play the same way, the exception being that doing the the things he wants would be pro-town?

And thus the case of controlling!mix being scum!mix falls apart without me having to argue for it.

For the record, I wouldn't call what I was trying to do with math controlling, I'd call it trying to read him, and then trying to teamwork. Besides, I changed considerabky onve math flipped.

I wouldn't say it falls apart, because not everyone will necessarily agree with me. Remember I'm not one of the ones voting for you, because while I do think the things you've done / pushed  appear as at least neutral, if not anti-town, I have a gut feeling you think they're pro-town in the long run. (or that possibly you're third party, which was reinforced by something else you said recently)

I actually think scuMiX would be more carefully and do some more obviously pro-town things in his "controlling".

[scolapasta]

I do have to admit I'm less engaed in this day trying to decide on voting, due to my "backup" vote. I've thought about it some more, and it's not even really a 1/2 vote, since even if all the military chose to vote for someone in possibly (likely) wouldn't matter.

But I do want to place my vote somewhere, so am going to go with:
Vote: space

I just find their posts to be less anemotown than usual. Like, they provide a lot of useful content, but it's mostly just recap of what's happened and repeating others' opinions. I think the most recent post, where they agreed a bunch with me felt just enough to think they might be trying to buddy me.

I'm also wary of swowl's supposed compulsive, then not compulsive shot, and then the weirdness of his killing / protective actions against LL. I'm really not sure how to interpret all that.

[WestCoastDidds]

I will say that MiX’s style is often bossy which reads as controlling even if he’s not actually controlling anything.

There is a different feel this time. More omnipotent than usual.

I can see that. The hole “I’m not as invested in town winning as usual” is very strange. Is he third party? He’s definitely not pro-town

[scolapasta]

I will say that MiX’s style is often bossy which reads as controlling even if he’s not actually controlling anything.

There is a different feel this time. More omnipotent than usual.

I can see that. The hole “I’m not as invested in town winning as usual” is very strange. Is he third party? He’s definitely not pro-town

Yeah ^^^ that is what I was referring to when I wrote this:

(or that possibly you're third party, which was reinforced by something else you said recently)

The problem is I always struggle to read MiX. I also think that if we keep him one more day for president, he'll have to chose a pro-town XO tomorrow, because one more anti-town choice and well, I think we'd have to brig him, no?

[A Drowned Kernel]

I will say that MiX’s style is often bossy which reads as controlling even if he’s not actually controlling anything.

There is a different feel this time. More omnipotent than usual.

I can see that. The hole “I’m not as invested in town winning as usual” is very strange. Is he third party? He’s definitely not pro-town

I have a theory that he gets legacy points based on how long the game lasts

[MiX]

I will say that MiX’s style is often bossy which reads as controlling even if he’s not actually controlling anything.

There is a different feel this time. More omnipotent than usual.

I can see that. The hole “I’m not as invested in town winning as usual” is very strange. Is he third party? He’s definitely not pro-town

I might not be pro town (because of this day's order), but I certainly have tried to be.

I am trying to win as town because I am town. There's just things that make this game unlike typical town games for me. You can talk about it but I don't think it's pro-town for me to say them, it'll just let scum take advantage of it.

[WestCoastDidds]

MiX, are you still waiting for Robz to say something? What’s going on there?

[MiX]

MiX, are you still waiting for Robz to say something? What’s going on there?

I'm waiting for everyone, and Robz is the last one.

[WestCoastDidds]

MiX, are you still waiting for Robz to say something? What’s going on there?

I'm waiting for everyone, and Robz is the last one.

And then what?

[LaLight]

also what tickled me, why do you use "mafiaread" and "mafia" as a whole instead of scum? that's not a concern, just curiosity. Knowing you there's something beneath it

It’s just a conscious effort of my part to stop using the word “scum.”  I used it a ton before, obviously, but for some reason it bothers me to say now.  Not sure why, as I don’t know that it has a problematic nuance or anything.  If I want to differentiate between different types of non-town, I’ll write it out to make it clear.

Thanks! In russian we use the word "Mafia" to talk about non-town faction which is the exact same word when we play, so your post was very noticeable for me

[SpaceAnemone]

I think controlling!MiX is more likely to be scum!MiX.

How exactly is mix being "controlling"?

There are a lot of examples of general attempts to shut down conversation about some topics, or not to share information on ExO cards etc. Against a back drop of those kinds of assertive statements, though, there's also some more specific stuff, for example, when MiX had the QT with Mathdude. First there was a directive to Mathdude to check in with it whenever he was posting (#244), then later on MiX literally said "If you don't want my help, then I don't want you alive" when Mathdude did something without asking MiX's permission. To me, that's language that wouldn't be at all okay in real-life social interaction, so I thought it crossed a bit of a line here too. I called it out at #248 and MiX responded "Talk to me when you find it scummy", which I felt was trying to shut down my observation about civility because it's not game-relevant.

Further on when Mathdude says something else QT-related, MiX says "please talk to me before revealing things in the thread I swear to god", where I'd generally read that ending as threatening language, and therefore classify it as controlling.

At #592, Scola asks MiX whether he'd consulted with ADK on the ExO card, because MiX had admonished Mathdude for not discussing the selection with him. MiX's response at #593 was that his demands of Mathdude were a way to get a read on him, and that since ADK is very experienced, MiX didn't need to do that with them. That seems to entirely miss the point that Scola was pointing out to MiX how hypocritical he was being.

As a last specific example, at #599 there's a throwaway reply that "It means that I don't feel like forcing them to make decisions through me will help them, or me." Again, MiX writes as if forcing people to do things is a socially acceptable way to behave, and I find that disturbing.

I don't know what I think about how alignment-indicative any of this is. It's possible that scum!MiX is less likely than town!MiX to make blanket comments about how anything is pro-town, simply because he's a player who's quite strongly biased by his current assumptions about the game, therefore maybe he's more likely to be so adamant over the "it's anti-town to tell you" line if he's really town, because scum!MiX would be more aware that he'd have to convince other people. Either way, I would prefer it to be non-alignment-indicative behaviour that MiX could learn to modify to be more mindful of how his writing might come across.

[SpaceAnemone]

I do have to admit I'm less engaed in this day trying to decide on voting, due to my "backup" vote. I've thought about it some more, and it's not even really a 1/2 vote, since even if all the military chose to vote for someone in possibly (likely) wouldn't matter.

But I do want to place my vote somewhere, so am going to go with:
Vote: space

I just find their posts to be less anemotown than usual. Like, they provide a lot of useful content, but it's mostly just recap of what's happened and repeating others' opinions. I think the most recent post, where they agreed a bunch with me felt just enough to think they might be trying to buddy me.

I'm also wary of swowl's supposed compulsive, then not compulsive shot, and then the weirdness of his killing / protective actions against LL. I'm really not sure how to interpret all that.

I still don't fully have my head in the game, but at least I've gotten my biggest blocker to engaging in the game out in the open now. (Possibly second-biggest after just not having coped well with this game starting before the previous one had ended).

I do find it mildly amusing that you ended your post with an "I'm also wary..." and then came to the same conclusion about Swowl that I ended my big recent post on, even though you apparently characterised my post as just "repeating others' opinions".

[MiX]

I think controlling!MiX is more likely to be scum!MiX.

How exactly is mix being "controlling"?

There are a lot of examples of general attempts to shut down conversation about some topics, or not to share information on ExO cards etc. Against a back drop of those kinds of assertive statements, though, there's also some more specific stuff, for example, when MiX had the QT with Mathdude. First there was a directive to Mathdude to check in with it whenever he was posting (#244), then later on MiX literally said "If you don't want my help, then I don't want you alive" when Mathdude did something without asking MiX's permission. To me, that's language that wouldn't be at all okay in real-life social interaction, so I thought it crossed a bit of a line here too. I called it out at #248 and MiX responded "Talk to me when you find it scummy", which I felt was trying to shut down my observation about civility because it's not game-relevant.

Further on when Mathdude says something else QT-related, MiX says "please talk to me before revealing things in the thread I swear to god", where I'd generally read that ending as threatening language, and therefore classify it as controlling.

At #592, Scola asks MiX whether he'd consulted with ADK on the ExO card, because MiX had admonished Mathdude for not discussing the selection with him. MiX's response at #593 was that his demands of Mathdude were a way to get a read on him, and that since ADK is very experienced, MiX didn't need to do that with them. That seems to entirely miss the point that Scola was pointing out to MiX how hypocritical he was being.

As a last specific example, at #599 there's a throwaway reply that "It means that I don't feel like forcing them to make decisions through me will help them, or me." Again, MiX writes as if forcing people to do things is a socially acceptable way to behave, and I find that disturbing.

I don't know what I think about how alignment-indicative any of this is. It's possible that scum!MiX is less likely than town!MiX to make blanket comments about how anything is pro-town, simply because he's a player who's quite strongly biased by his current assumptions about the game, therefore maybe he's more likely to be so adamant over the "it's anti-town to tell you" line if he's really town, because scum!MiX would be more aware that he'd have to convince other people. Either way, I would prefer it to be non-alignment-indicative behaviour that MiX could learn to modify to be more mindful of how his writing might come across.

We are not here to argue how to act socially. We are here to catch scum. I'd hoped that you had understood this about me at this point, but I'm always confusing, so that's okay.

You constantly and consistently bring up NAI things about me. This doesn't help the game. The truth is, I find it much more comfortable to be nice and try to help everyone at everything, without imposing myself. The problem is, I want comfort when I'm scum. When I'm town, I actually do need to go against people, because being nice and helpful and friendly means scum can manipulate you. This also helps me have confidence in my reads, both townreads and scumreads. How can you scum read someone if they're a person? If we were all having a social and polite conversation, no one would mention the possibility of scum being among us.

After math's first game, I wanted to get a very, very good read on them. I knew I was capable of doing so, as I had done it once, but as the person with access to a QT with him, I felt like it was my duty to get a right read on him, and push it so the rest of town would agree. That was my number one thing to do that day, and so that's what I did: I talked to math a lot to see what he was thinking, and I was trying to help him out. I was generally townreading him. When he posted those things publicly, I got cold feet. What if he is scum? But it's my job to read him, I can't have any doubt about his alignment. So paranoia became frustration became anger. I cooled off quickly enough (at least the second time I went through this...), but of course you can't see our QT. Then I did the dayvig thing which told me math was 100% town, so now I wanted to cooperate with him. Second step, after me trusting him, is he trusting me, so I went to work on that. Of course, I'm not very good at that, so you can ask math when the game is over what he's thought about me over the course of this game.

Was I trying to control math into talking me through his decisions? Yes. Was I trying to control those decisions? Indirectly, yes, but he's a new player: I just wanted him to accept my input, and then do what he thinks is best. After his first order pick, you'd all do the same.

(About #592) I don't think I can address how hypocritical I was: I didn't think I was, and I still don't. Math and ADK are two very different people. Besides, scola should've asked ADK that, they're the ones that are now in the position I was with math.

Yes, I do think forcing people to vote for scum is socially acceptable in this game. I think that's half of town's job, to convince that their scumreads are accurate, while listening to other people doing the same thing (the other half is having accurate scumreads, and the third half is convincing town they're town. It's a very full game).

I'm not sure what my playstyle this game says about my alignment (as much as I want to say it screams town, as that's how I approach being town), but this post is what I would call high effort from me, even if it doesn't have a reread or a VCA (which are usually my high effort high points). Take it as you will.

PPE 1

[MiX]

I do have to admit I'm less engaed in this day trying to decide on voting, due to my "backup" vote. I've thought about it some more, and it's not even really a 1/2 vote, since even if all the military chose to vote for someone in possibly (likely) wouldn't matter.

But I do want to place my vote somewhere, so am going to go with:
Vote: space

I just find their posts to be less anemotown than usual. Like, they provide a lot of useful content, but it's mostly just recap of what's happened and repeating others' opinions. I think the most recent post, where they agreed a bunch with me felt just enough to think they might be trying to buddy me.

I'm also wary of swowl's supposed compulsive, then not compulsive shot, and then the weirdness of his killing / protective actions against LL. I'm really not sure how to interpret all that.

I still don't fully have my head in the game, but at least I've gotten my biggest blocker to engaging in the game out in the open now. (Possibly second-biggest after just not having coped well with this game starting before the previous one had ended).

I do find it mildly amusing that you ended your post with an "I'm also wary..." and then came to the same conclusion about Swowl that I ended my big recent post on, even though you apparently characterised my post as just "repeating others' opinions".

This raises an eyebrow. Is it just me, or is this scummy coming from Didds?

[Swowl]

Didds?

[WestCoastDidds]

I do have to admit I'm less engaed in this day trying to decide on voting, due to my "backup" vote. I've thought about it some more, and it's not even really a 1/2 vote, since even if all the military chose to vote for someone in possibly (likely) wouldn't matter.

But I do want to place my vote somewhere, so am going to go with:
Vote: space

I just find their posts to be less anemotown than usual. Like, they provide a lot of useful content, but it's mostly just recap of what's happened and repeating others' opinions. I think the most recent post, where they agreed a bunch with me felt just enough to think they might be trying to buddy me.

I'm also wary of swowl's supposed compulsive, then not compulsive shot, and then the weirdness of his killing / protective actions against LL. I'm really not sure how to interpret all that.

I still don't fully have my head in the game, but at least I've gotten my biggest blocker to engaging in the game out in the open now. (Possibly second-biggest after just not having coped well with this game starting before the previous one had ended).

I do find it mildly amusing that you ended your post with an "I'm also wary..." and then came to the same conclusion about Swowl that I ended my big recent post on, even though you apparently characterised my post as just "repeating others' opinions".

This raises an eyebrow. Is it just me, or is this scummy coming from Didds?

That's not me, MiXy.  Did you mean to quote something else?

[MiX]

Didds?

Haha. Oops.

Yeah we should probably exile scola. I was talking about his post.

[scolapasta]

I do have to admit I'm less engaed in this day trying to decide on voting, due to my "backup" vote. I've thought about it some more, and it's not even really a 1/2 vote, since even if all the military chose to vote for someone in possibly (likely) wouldn't matter.

But I do want to place my vote somewhere, so am going to go with:
Vote: space

I just find their posts to be less anemotown than usual. Like, they provide a lot of useful content, but it's mostly just recap of what's happened and repeating others' opinions. I think the most recent post, where they agreed a bunch with me felt just enough to think they might be trying to buddy me.

I'm also wary of swowl's supposed compulsive, then not compulsive shot, and then the weirdness of his killing / protective actions against LL. I'm really not sure how to interpret all that.

I still don't fully have my head in the game, but at least I've gotten my biggest blocker to engaging in the game out in the open now. (Possibly second-biggest after just not having coped well with this game starting before the previous one had ended).

I do find it mildly amusing that you ended your post with an "I'm also wary..." and then came to the same conclusion about Swowl that I ended my big recent post on, even though you apparently characterised my post as just "repeating others' opinions".

Let's see - this is what you wrote:

Weird compulsive-vig-protection thing that doesn't quite seem to line up with LL's claims.

Which is pretty much what people were talking about in the early day posts (~the 960s). At least that's how I read all the grilling about what happened, what kinds of powers LL detected, etc.

That qualified as "repeating others' opinions" to me.

[scolapasta]

In going back to find the #s I mentioned in the previous post, I did reread something I had missed. Could this be possible scumslip?

... while the military police force would get us some results but the caveat that military are undetectable means we probably wouldn’t get a result on scum.

I mean, there's a probable in there, but why assume scum are military? (and note Didds has claimed she's military)

Vote: WCD

[Swowl]

In going back to find the #s I mentioned in the previous post, I did reread something I had missed. Could this be possible scumslip?

... while the military police force would get us some results but the caveat that military are undetectable means we probably wouldn’t get a result on scum.

I mean, there's a probable in there, but why assume scum are military? (and note Didds has claimed she's military)

Vote: WCD

Have a thought. but would love to hear WCD first.

[WestCoastDidds]

In going back to find the #s I mentioned in the previous post, I did reread something I had missed. Could this be possible scumslip?

... while the military police force would get us some results but the caveat that military are undetectable means we probably wouldn’t get a result on scum.

I mean, there's a probable in there, but why assume scum are military? (and note Didds has claimed she's military)

Vote: WCD

I’m assuming some of the scum are military and some are civilian. Assuming that the team is 2 or 3 people, and they can choose who takes the shot.... they would have military do the shooting because they are the undetectable ones. So, the results would be interesting, but probably wouldn’t help us isolate the scum team as much as other action-takers.

That just makes sense, right?

[MiX]

In going back to find the #s I mentioned in the previous post, I did reread something I had missed. Could this be possible scumslip?

... while the military police force would get us some results but the caveat that military are undetectable means we probably wouldn’t get a result on scum.

I mean, there's a probable in there, but why assume scum are military? (and note Didds has claimed she's military)

Vote: WCD

I’m assuming some of the scum are military and some are civilian. Assuming that the team is 2 or 3 people, and they can choose who takes the shot.... they would have military do the shooting because they are the undetectable ones. So, the results would be interesting, but probably wouldn’t help us isolate the scum team as much as other action-takers.

That just makes sense, right?

Yes.

We can vote scola now, right? I'll go reread him and make a case, even if part of why I feel like doing this is self-preservation.

[MiX]

Here's my "Scola Reread, with Great Bias towards him being Scum"

D1 he starts by (after some flavor talk) pushing and voting math.

But I will add, mathdude raises some suspicion for me:

• did seem somewhat defensive and sarcastic about it; and I agree with ash that seems like it could be a tell.
• asked about why would he want a chat with a fellow scum, leaving out the fact that this is a day chat and scum chat is usually a night only thing (at least in my limited experience; that one game I was scum, we had day chat and everyone seemed to treat it like it was a special cookie)
• (least strong) this quote below. Based on my theory above, I would have maybe expected something mentioning the fact that someone had already used the term.

I'm just going on the assumption that mafia is cylon-aligned, based on them being opposite species here. Doesn't that make sense?

But then if he were scum, could Mix also be scum?

Meh, I never know how to read MiX. But Ithink this is all enough for an initial vote for:

Vote: mathdude

This is his case. Not scummy, not townie either.

Then he follows up on this with more posts about math being scum. The only one that pops out to me is

To all those who are saying we should not exile mathdude, is it just because he's president? or are there other reasons?

But I can see town!scola say this as much as scum!scola, really.

...

...

I don't think scola is scum anymore. Also, he's posted too much for me to want to kill him.

Vote: Jack, no content, I don't expect Jack to start playing the game before Season 2.

[WestCoastDidds]

I don’t think Scola is scummy. I think he is legit trying to read and bring us together. He gets it wrong sometimes, but I’m okay with that.

I agree that we need more from Jack. I’ve tried drawing him out, and he answers questions, but we’re not learning much from him. Plus, it’s D3.

My vote doesn’t count, though. :/  regardless, vote: Jack

[faust]

Vote Count 3.5

scolapasta (1): Swowl
Robz888 (1): A Drowned Kernel
MiX (4): ashersky, Dylan32, EFHW, LaLight
Swowl (1): SpaceAnemone
WestCoastDidds (1): scolapasta
Jack Rudd (2): MiX, WestCoastDidds

Not Voting (2): Jack Rudd, Robz888

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to exile. Day 2 ends April 12, 2021, 08:30:00 am. This is in about 45 hours.

[EFHW]

This is a great post, but I'm not persuaded.

[WestCoastDidds]

This is a great post, but I'm not persuaded.

Here is a question (an I don’t have an answer)... do we want ADK to be the president? If MiX gets the boot today, they would get elevated.

[MiX]

This is a great post, but I'm not persuaded.

Here is a question (an I don’t have an answer)... do we want ADK to be the president? If MiX gets the boot today, they would get elevated.

No, we do not.

Yes, I do understand that it doesn't make much sense coming from me, but I'm the one with a QT with ADK, and they've confirmed they'd rather have me president publicly.

[WestCoastDidds]

Who would you appoint to VP next?

[MiX]

Who would you appoint to VP next?

Ashersky.

[Jack Rudd]

Vote: MiX

[A Drowned Kernel]

Vote: Jack Rudd

[scolapasta]

In going back to find the #s I mentioned in the previous post, I did reread something I had missed. Could this be possible scumslip?

... while the military police force would get us some results but the caveat that military are undetectable means we probably wouldn’t get a result on scum.

I mean, there's a probable in there, but why assume scum are military? (and note Didds has claimed she's military)

Vote: WCD

I’m assuming some of the scum are military and some are civilian. Assuming that the team is 2 or 3 people, and they can choose who takes the shot.... they would have military do the shooting because they are the undetectable ones. So, the results would be interesting, but probably wouldn’t help us isolate the scum team as much as other action-takers.

That just makes sense, right?

It could make some sense, but it just feels a tad enough strong to be more than just an assumption. Like I said, if you were civilian, it probably won't have pinged any alarms, but for the the fact that you're claimed military.

[WestCoastDidds]

In going back to find the #s I mentioned in the previous post, I did reread something I had missed. Could this be possible scumslip?

... while the military police force would get us some results but the caveat that military are undetectable means we probably wouldn’t get a result on scum.

I mean, there's a probable in there, but why assume scum are military? (and note Didds has claimed she's military)

Vote: WCD

I’m assuming some of the scum are military and some are civilian. Assuming that the team is 2 or 3 people, and they can choose who takes the shot.... they would have military do the shooting because they are the undetectable ones. So, the results would be interesting, but probably wouldn’t help us isolate the scum team as much as other action-takers.

That just makes sense, right?

It could make some sense, but it just feels a tad enough strong to be more than just an assumption. Like I said, if you were civilian, it probably won't have pinged any alarms, but for the the fact that you're claimed military.

Okay... then there is nothing for me to say if this about perceived tone. I don’t know who scum are aligned with, but I’d assume they are split. I know who some military are but I’m townreading them. When Mixed asked for XO input, I went through the possible orders, thought about their utility and wrote it down. The drawback to that one is that there is a better than good chance we don’t catch scum with the power. I think that’s right and it the drawback to that XO. I say that is the drawback to the XO with a good of certainty because this seems like an easy observation to me. That seems more informational than scummy from where I sit.

What would conclude about the order? Where is my read flawed?

[EFHW]

This is a great post, but I'm not persuaded.

Here is a question (an I don’t have an answer)... do we want ADK to be the president? If MiX gets the boot today, they would get elevated.

Why not ADK? They can have greatness thrust upon them.

[scolapasta]

I will attempt to catch up later today.

How about today?

[scolapasta]

In going back to find the #s I mentioned in the previous post, I did reread something I had missed. Could this be possible scumslip?

... while the military police force would get us some results but the caveat that military are undetectable means we probably wouldn’t get a result on scum.

I mean, there's a probable in there, but why assume scum are military? (and note Didds has claimed she's military)

Vote: WCD

I’m assuming some of the scum are military and some are civilian. Assuming that the team is 2 or 3 people, and they can choose who takes the shot.... they would have military do the shooting because they are the undetectable ones. So, the results would be interesting, but probably wouldn’t help us isolate the scum team as much as other action-takers.

That just makes sense, right?

It could make some sense, but it just feels a tad enough strong to be more than just an assumption. Like I said, if you were civilian, it probably won't have pinged any alarms, but for the the fact that you're claimed military.

Okay... then there is nothing for me to say if this about perceived tone. I don’t know who scum are aligned with, but I’d assume they are split. I know who some military are but I’m townreading them. When Mixed asked for XO input, I went through the possible orders, thought about their utility and wrote it down. The drawback to that one is that there is a better than good chance we don’t catch scum with the power. I think that’s right and it the drawback to that XO. I say that is the drawback to the XO with a good of certainty because this seems like an easy observation to me. That seems more informational than scummy from where I sit.

What would conclude about the order? Where is my read flawed?

You're right it was more about tone (and maybe nonchalance) than the actual read of the XO. It might also be that it feels mildly scummy to want to answer that question, i.e trying to get some town points.

[WestCoastDidds]

You're right it was more about tone (and maybe nonchalance) than the actual read of the XO. It might also be that it feels mildly scummy to want to answer that question, i.e trying to get some town points.

I'm really frustrated that this game is so fragmented. So, I have been trying to be more present and engaged today.  MiX asked a question...so I answered it. The benefit of which is that I understood what the XOs were, so I was pretty sure that MiX was reading the order for today wrong when he told us about his choice. I wasn't trying to look like town. I am town, and I thought it was helpful.

[Swowl]

This is a great post, but I'm not persuaded.

Here is a question (an I don’t have an answer)... do we want ADK to be the president? If MiX gets the boot today, they would get elevated.

Why not ADK? They can have greatness thrust upon them.

ADK has made it pretty clear they don't want to have to toss their powers at this point.

[MiX]

You're right it was more about tone (and maybe nonchalance) than the actual read of the XO. It might also be that it feels mildly scummy to want to answer that question, i.e trying to get some town points.

I've read this interaction a lot and I still don't understand this: what question are you referring to?

[scolapasta]

You're right it was more about tone (and maybe nonchalance) than the actual read of the XO. It might also be that it feels mildly scummy to want to answer that question, i.e trying to get some town points.

I'm really frustrated that this game is so fragmented. So, I have been trying to be more present and engaged today.  MiX asked a question...so I answered it. The benefit of which is that I understood what the XOs were, so I was pretty sure that MiX was reading the order for today wrong when he told us about his choice. I wasn't trying to look like town. I am town, and I thought it was helpful.

The order of this is off, though - you answered your opinions in 919, whereas MiX didn't reveal which XO he choose until 2 days RT later in 1024. Not sure if that's what you're saying here though.

I do get that town!Didds would try to be helpful, though. But can you agree that scum!Didds would try to appear helpful too?

You're right it was more about tone (and maybe nonchalance) than the actual read of the XO. It might also be that it feels mildly scummy to want to answer that question, i.e trying to get some town points.

I've read this interaction a lot and I still don't understand this: what question are you referring to?

What do people think of the current executive orders? How would you rank them, from most useful to least useful today?

[scolapasta]

Jack showing up and only voting does feel scummy though:

Vote: Jack

And then there's also Robz not showing up.

Vote: Robz

I could go for either of these too. If my vote counted.

[scolapasta]

Also, have we forgotten to think about the fact that someone tried to kill LL overnight? According to Swowl he protected him, but then who?

I don't see why Swowl would not just admit it (unless its because he targeted town) is it possible he targeted Awaclu with his compulsive vig, and that the scum target was actually LL? I guess that would make swowl likely town then.

[WestCoastDidds]

@pasta...

Yes, the part you are quoting was before MiX told us the XO he chose. I’m saying that the reason I was quick to realize that he might not be interpreting it correctly when he finally filled us it was because I had read them carefully back when he had asked. I was saying that work had served us well.

[scolapasta]

@pasta...

Yes, the part you are quoting was before MiX told us the XO he chose. I’m saying that the reason I was quick to realize that he might not be interpreting it correctly when he finally filled us it was because I had read them carefully back when he had asked. I was saying that work had served us well.

OK. I had a feeling I had misunderstood there what you meant. Thanks for the clarification.

And please understand my read of of you trying to help is being scummy is partially based on that words game where you were scum and fooled me all the way to the end. i.e. I'll admit I have trouble differentiating between helpful town Didds and helpful scum Didds.

I do think we're best served by looking at those who haven't really posted much recently, - jack, Robz, EFHW, Dylan. Hence why I switched my vote.

[EFHW]

This is a great post, but I'm not persuaded.

Here is a question (an I don’t have an answer)... do we want ADK to be the president? If MiX gets the boot today, they would get elevated.

Why not ADK? They can have greatness thrust upon them.

ADK has made it pretty clear they don't want to have to toss their powers at this point.

Oh, I see. And if MiX is scum? I guess we can look for other scum first. But I rarely get a MiX scumread.

[EFHW]

Didds is being more analytical than usual. I think it's a good change - it helped me townread her on the last day of the last game.

I feel like we haven't heard much from Dylan. I need more data so I can learn to read him!

[Swowl]

This is a great post, but I'm not persuaded.

Here is a question (an I don’t have an answer)... do we want ADK to be the president? If MiX gets the boot today, they would get elevated.

Why not ADK? They can have greatness thrust upon them.

ADK has made it pretty clear they don't want to have to toss their powers at this point.

Oh, I see. And if MiX is scum? I guess we can look for other scum first. But I rarely get a MiX scumread.

I mean if mix is skum he would say the same thing because it deters people from wanting to lynch him that town read ADK. He would also say it as town though.

I simply do not believe that MiX as skum would put a play on the table that forces an exile.

[WestCoastDidds]

Didds is being more analytical than usual. I think it's a good change - it helped me townread her on the last day of the last game.

I feel like we haven't heard much from Dylan. I need more data so I can learn to read him!

Thank you! I’m trying!

[MiX]

You're right it was more about tone (and maybe nonchalance) than the actual read of the XO. It might also be that it feels mildly scummy to want to answer that question, i.e trying to get some town points.

I've read this interaction a lot and I still don't understand this: what question are you referring to?

What do people think of the current executive orders? How would you rank them, from most useful to least useful today?

Thank you.

Would you, as either alignment, not answer that question? Why would you do that? Answering questions is fun and helpful which helps all alignments involved.

[MiX]

Jack showing up and only voting does feel scummy though:

Vote: Jack

And then there's also Robz not showing up.

Vote: Robz

I could go for either of these too. If my vote counted.

Votes still count, if you bring someone to 7, chances are they're exiled.

Robz has actually been busy, whereas Jack is around enough to vote. Therefore Jack is scum. He's not even trying to read the thread anymore, that vote was just a kneejerk "I was voted therefore I must vote whoever voted me" which, sure, in a vacuum seems like something scum would never do, but the way Jack is playing is also not what a new!town person would do at all, town!Jack would never just sit back and OMGUS with quite literally no input. This is just lazy non-town play, most likely from an alignment that either doesn't know their partners, doesn't have partners, or whose partners don't know who they are.

[scolapasta]

Didds is being more analytical than usual. I think it's a good change - it helped me townread her on the last day of the last game.

I feel like we haven't heard much from Dylan. I need more data so I can learn to read him!

But isn't doing something different than usual a scum sign - as one doesn't quite know how to always "fake" it?

That said, I could also see this post as being a trap for someone like me to read it this way; allowing you to indirectly throw suspicion at WCD without getting your hands dirty.

Or are you saying she was also more analytical in the last game? If so, was that true just at the end when there were fewer players, or also early on?

[scolapasta]

You're right it was more about tone (and maybe nonchalance) than the actual read of the XO. It might also be that it feels mildly scummy to want to answer that question, i.e trying to get some town points.

I've read this interaction a lot and I still don't understand this: what question are you referring to?

What do people think of the current executive orders? How would you rank them, from most useful to least useful today?

Thank you.

Would you, as either alignment, not answer that question? Why would you do that? Answering questions is fun and helpful which helps all alignments involved.

Says MiX who frequently doesn't answer questions and tries to sell it as "pro-town".

[scolapasta]

Jack showing up and only voting does feel scummy though:

Vote: Jack

And then there's also Robz not showing up.

Vote: Robz

I could go for either of these too. If my vote counted.

Votes still count, if you bring someone to 7, chances are they're exiled.

Robz has actually been busy, whereas Jack is around enough to vote. Therefore Jack is scum. He's not even trying to read the thread anymore, that vote was just a kneejerk "I was voted therefore I must vote whoever voted me" which, sure, in a vacuum seems like something scum would never do, but the way Jack is playing is also not what a new!town person would do at all, town!Jack would never just sit back and OMGUS with quite literally no input. This is just lazy non-town play, most likely from an alignment that either doesn't know their partners, doesn't have partners, or whose partners don't know who they are.

How do you know Robz has been busy? And Jack has been around enough to post, but maybe too busy to write long out posts like you and me.

I really don't know what Jack's style would be, it's possible he's just like this and just joined the game because he's a big BSG fan (his posts have definitely shown this).

That said, Jack seems to be the better wagon of the two right now and a better use of my vote.

Vote: Jack

[faust]

Vote Count 3.6

scolapasta (1): Swowl
MiX (5): ashersky, Dylan32, EFHW, LaLight, Jack Rudd
Swowl (1): SpaceAnemone
Jack Rudd (4): MiX, WestCoastDidds, A Drowned Kernel, scolapasta

Not Voting (1): Robz888

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to exile. Day 2 ends April 12, 2021, 08:30:00 am. This is in about 20 hours.

[faust]

ashersky, Dylan32 and Robz888 have been prodded.

[Robz888]

Acknowledged. Again, I do mean to catch up soon.

[Robz888]

Vote: MiX

[MiX]

Acknowledged. Again, I do mean to catch up soon.

Vote: MiX

Then why would you put me in E-1?

Town is in a really, really bad situation if I'm exiled. I can't stress it enough.

[Robz888]

I don’t want their to be no exile situation again, and I’m fine with you dying. Sorry!

[Dylan32]

Hey all, sorry about disappearing this weekend. I can't really elaborate much, but there was a fatal incident Friday night that has taken up a lot of mental capacity, and my ability to sit and focus on games just hasn't been there this weekend. I'm going to try to catch up.

[MiX]

I don’t want their to be no exile situation again, and I’m fine with you dying. Sorry!

You really missed all the executive order talk? We can't no exile today, it's quite literally not an option.

[EFHW]

Didds is being more analytical than usual. I think it's a good change - it helped me townread her on the last day of the last game.

I feel like we haven't heard much from Dylan. I need more data so I can learn to read him!

But isn't doing something different than usual a scum sign - as one doesn't quite know how to always "fake" it?

That said, I could also see this post as being a trap for someone like me to read it this way; allowing you to indirectly throw suspicion at WCD without getting your hands dirty.

Or are you saying she was also more analytical in the last game? If so, was that true just at the end when there were fewer players, or also early on?

It was at the end. At first, I thought that meant she was scum and had discussed tactics overnight. But eventually I townread her and she was town.

[EFHW]

I simply do not believe that MiX as skum would put a play on the table that forces an exile.

Why not?

[EFHW]

Acknowledged. Again, I do mean to catch up soon.

Vote: MiX

Then why would you put me in E-1?

Town is in a really, really bad situation if I'm exiled. I can't stress it enough.

You'll need to elaborate to be persuasive.

[MiX]

Acknowledged. Again, I do mean to catch up soon.

Vote: MiX

Then why would you put me in E-1?

Town is in a really, really bad situation if I'm exiled. I can't stress it enough.

You'll need to elaborate to be persuasive.

Town needs to not be addicted to make people claim information that doesn't help town just because they scumread them.

What I'm saying is true. Ask ADK. You don't need to know more than that to make a decision. After all, I could be lying regardless of how much I elaborate, right?

[WestCoastDidds]

Let’s not ax one of the most active players.

Let’s exile one of the folks who are barely contributing.

[A Drowned Kernel]

This is treading into dangerous water, but:

I have information, accessible only to me, that makes me strongly believe mix is town

If you think I'm town, and you trust my judgement, you won't exile mix

[WestCoastDidds]

Hey all, sorry about disappearing this weekend. I can't really elaborate much, but there was a fatal incident Friday night that has taken up a lot of mental capacity, and my ability to sit and focus on games just hasn't been there this weekend. I'm going to try to catch up.

Oh, Dylan. I’m so sorry. I hope that you are doing okay.

[Dylan32]

Here, have a begrudging Unvote...

[Dylan32]

Hey all, sorry about disappearing this weekend. I can't really elaborate much, but there was a fatal incident Friday night that has taken up a lot of mental capacity, and my ability to sit and focus on games just hasn't been there this weekend. I'm going to try to catch up.

Oh, Dylan. I’m so sorry. I hope that you are doing okay.

I'm fine, thanks. On the one hand, the thing didn't affect me directly per se, but it very much impacted an immediate family member, so it's more worrying about them than personally being in a bad spot. Just the whole situation sucks.

[Dylan32]

To be clear, my unvote is almost solely on ADK's word here.

[Dylan32]

Acknowledged. Again, I do mean to catch up soon.

Vote: MiX

Then why would you put me in E-1?

Town is in a really, really bad situation if I'm exiled. I can't stress it enough.

You'll need to elaborate to be persuasive.

Town needs to not be addicted to make people claim information that doesn't help town just because they scumread them.

What I'm saying is true. Ask ADK. You don't need to know more than that to make a decision. After all, I could be lying regardless of how much I elaborate, right?

See, I don't agree with this. Like in they hypothetical where you are lying scum, the more you elaborate and the more detailed your lies are, the more likely we are to find something that eventually contradicts that lie. So if a majority (or at least very nearly so) thinks you are scum / likely to be lying, it is in our best interest to get you to say as much as possible. Scum's biggest advantage normally (at least at game start) is their information gap. Town has to work to overcome that, often by acquiring more information. In general, getting more information into town's hands is better than withholding it, certain situations not withstanding. So if this is a situation where it's information that would help scum more than town, you can say that and try to convince us that is true, but that doesn't change that generally withholding info is anti-town.

[scolapasta]

Dr. Jeckyl and Mr MiX, a short story by scolapasta:

Would you, as either alignment, not answer that question? Why would you do that? Answering questions is fun and helpful which helps all alignments involved.

Town needs to not be addicted to make people claim information that doesn't help town just because they scumread them.

What I'm saying is true. Ask ADK. You don't need to know more than that to make a decision. After all, I could be lying regardless of how much I elaborate, right?

[scolapasta]

Hey all, sorry about disappearing this weekend. I can't really elaborate much, but there was a fatal incident Friday night that has taken up a lot of mental capacity, and my ability to sit and focus on games just hasn't been there this weekend. I'm going to try to catch up.

Oh, Dylan. I’m so sorry. I hope that you are doing okay.

I'm fine, thanks. On the one hand, the thing didn't affect me directly per se, but it very much impacted an immediate family member, so it's more worrying about them than personally being in a bad spot. Just the whole situation sucks.

Agreed, sorry to hear. And directly or indirectly, I'm sure it sucks.

[scolapasta]

ADK, can you remind us why you wanted to be VP? It's become more clear than you're military. I know that my though process (and I read the same thing in Didd's lack of desire to be VP when MiX had asked) was being miltary and being unsure of the turning point, I was not interested. Especially with MiX as President, as his play style could easily lend him to getting brigged. (in fact, I think the only thing saving him right now from being brigged is the fact that he's the president)

So why is it you put your name in the running?

[MiX]

Dr. Jeckyl and Mr MiX, a short story by scolapasta:

Would you, as either alignment, not answer that question? Why would you do that? Answering questions is fun and helpful which helps all alignments involved.

Town needs to not be addicted to make people claim information that doesn't help town just because they scumread them.

What I'm saying is true. Ask ADK. You don't need to know more than that to make a decision. After all, I could be lying regardless of how much I elaborate, right?

Bolded That For You.

[Dylan32]

Dr. Jeckyl and Mr MiX, a short story by scolapasta:

Would you, as either alignment, not answer that question? Why would you do that? Answering questions is fun and helpful which helps all alignments involved.

Town needs to not be addicted to make people claim information that doesn't help town just because they scumread them.

What I'm saying is true. Ask ADK. You don't need to know more than that to make a decision. After all, I could be lying regardless of how much I elaborate, right?

Bolded That For You.

Bolded and italicized that for you.

[SpaceAnemone]

This is treading into dangerous water, but:

I have information, accessible only to me, that makes me strongly believe mix is town

If you think I'm town, and you trust my judgement, you won't exile mix

Do you specifically believe MiX is town, or just that he's not Cylon aligned?

I ask because not for the first time this game, the fact he's explicitly mentioning the possibility of third-party or traitor mechanics (see his recent criticism of Jack) makes me wonder what particular information he's got that makes him go into extra detail relating to those possibilities.

[Swowl]

I don’t want their to be no exile situation again, and I’m fine with you dying. Sorry!

K. well at least Jack is reading the game. I do not have the brain power to try to convince people of Pasta with the time left. If we are gonna do a lurker, can we please at least do Robz over Jack?

Vote: Robz

[Swowl]

Snip*

Especially with MiX as President, as his play style could easily lend him to getting brigged. (in fact, I think the only thing saving him right now from being brigged is the fact that he's the president)

The only thing that is

I simply do not believe that MiX as skum would put a play on the table that forces an exile.

Why not?

There are no skum deaths and no exiles. 2 Town flips. Why force a flip?

[LaLight]

I scumread MiX more than I believe ADK's claim. my vote stays

[Swowl]

I scumread MiX more than I believe ADK's claim. my vote stays

how do you read adk?

[A Drowned Kernel]

ADK, can you remind us why you wanted to be VP? It's become more clear than you're military. I know that my though process (and I read the same thing in Didd's lack of desire to be VP when MiX had asked) was being miltary and being unsure of the turning point, I was not interested. Especially with MiX as President, as his play style could easily lend him to getting brigged. (in fact, I think the only thing saving him right now from being brigged is the fact that he's the president)

So why is it you put your name in the running?

This is an entirely reasonable question! That I'm not going to answer

[A Drowned Kernel]

This is treading into dangerous water, but:

I have information, accessible only to me, that makes me strongly believe mix is town

If you think I'm town, and you trust my judgement, you won't exile mix

Do you specifically believe MiX is town, or just that he's not Cylon aligned?

I ask because not for the first time this game, the fact he's explicitly mentioning the possibility of third-party or traitor mechanics (see his recent criticism of Jack) makes me wonder what particular information he's got that makes him go into extra detail relating to those possibilities.

I specifically believe he's town

[scolapasta]

ADK, can you remind us why you wanted to be VP? It's become more clear than you're military. I know that my though process (and I read the same thing in Didd's lack of desire to be VP when MiX had asked) was being miltary and being unsure of the turning point, I was not interested. Especially with MiX as President, as his play style could easily lend him to getting brigged. (in fact, I think the only thing saving him right now from being brigged is the fact that he's the president)

So why is it you put your name in the running?

This is an entirely reasonable question! That I'm not going to answer

Why do you defy your own president's platform:

Answering questions is fun and helpful which helps all alignments involved.

[EFHW]

To be clear, my unvote is almost solely on ADK's word here.

unvote

[EFHW]

Snip*

Especially with MiX as President, as his play style could easily lend him to getting brigged. (in fact, I think the only thing saving him right now from being brigged is the fact that he's the president)

The only thing that is

I simply do not believe that MiX as skum would put a play on the table that forces an exile.

Why not?

There are no skum deaths and no exiles. 2 Town flips. Why force a flip?

They still have to kill most of town.

[EFHW]

{snipped a bunch of quotes} Like in they hypothetical where you are lying scum, the more you elaborate and the more detailed your lies are, the more likely we are to find something that eventually contradicts that lie. So if a majority (or at least very nearly so) thinks you are scum / likely to be lying, it is in our best interest to get you to say as much as possible. Scum's biggest advantage normally (at least at game start) is their information gap. Town has to work to overcome that, often by acquiring more information. In general, getting more information into town's hands is better than withholding it, certain situations not withstanding. So if this is a situation where it's information that would help scum more than town, you can say that and try to convince us that is true, but that doesn't change that generally withholding info is anti-town.

I agree with the principle of town needs information and elaboration does make a difference, even if the person is lying. But there are definitely many scenarios in which withholding information is pro-town.

[A Drowned Kernel]

ADK, can you remind us why you wanted to be VP? It's become more clear than you're military. I know that my though process (and I read the same thing in Didd's lack of desire to be VP when MiX had asked) was being miltary and being unsure of the turning point, I was not interested. Especially with MiX as President, as his play style could easily lend him to getting brigged. (in fact, I think the only thing saving him right now from being brigged is the fact that he's the president)

So why is it you put your name in the running?

This is an entirely reasonable question! That I'm not going to answer

Why do you defy your own president's platform:

Answering questions is fun and helpful which helps all alignments involved.

I was added to the ticket to appeal to heartland voters, we actually disagree on several key policy points

[EFHW]

ADK, can you remind us why you wanted to be VP? It's become more clear than you're military. I know that my though process (and I read the same thing in Didd's lack of desire to be VP when MiX had asked) was being miltary and being unsure of the turning point, I was not interested. Especially with MiX as President, as his play style could easily lend him to getting brigged. (in fact, I think the only thing saving him right now from being brigged is the fact that he's the president)

So why is it you put your name in the running?

This is an entirely reasonable question! That I'm not going to answer

Why do you defy your own president's platform:

Answering questions is fun and helpful which helps all alignments involved.

I don't like this line of argument. The apparent contradiction doesn't mean anything except that MiX likes to get information and doesn't want to give it now, possibly for good reasons. You could say that the original statement is scummy, though, because it encourages helping all alignments, which is weird given our opposing wincons. Also because, like I said before, sometimes you need to keep information to yourself for awhile.

[EFHW]

I was added to the ticket to appeal to heartland voters, we actually disagree on several key policy points.

Are you also fluent in Spanish?

[ashersky]

I was prodded.

I did read some over the weekend, but was mostly just enjoying the weekend.

Still like MiX for exile.  ADK's thing only make me think ADK is mafia, not the other way around.

[EFHW]

ok, vote: Robz. Two wagons are better than one.

[scolapasta]

ADK, can you remind us why you wanted to be VP? It's become more clear than you're military. I know that my though process (and I read the same thing in Didd's lack of desire to be VP when MiX had asked) was being miltary and being unsure of the turning point, I was not interested. Especially with MiX as President, as his play style could easily lend him to getting brigged. (in fact, I think the only thing saving him right now from being brigged is the fact that he's the president)

So why is it you put your name in the running?

This is an entirely reasonable question! That I'm not going to answer

Why do you defy your own president's platform:

Answering questions is fun and helpful which helps all alignments involved.

I don't like this line of argument. The apparent contradiction doesn't mean anything except that MiX likes to get information and doesn't want to give it now, possibly for good reasons. You could say that the original statement is scummy, though, because it encourages helping all alignments, which is weird given our opposing wincons. Also because, like I said before, sometimes you need to keep information to yourself for awhile.

I think it is meaningful. I agree MiX doesn't want to give out info, and that as a general concept giving out info isn't always pro-town, but the point is that if MiX clearly knows that, why does he try to imply that others who don't give info are either scummy at worse,  or not being helpful. That's why the contradiction frustrates me.

I hadn't noticed the "all alignments" thing originally. That is weird.

[scolapasta]

I was added to the ticket to appeal to heartland voters, we actually disagree on several key policy points.

Are you also fluent in Spanish?

Wait if that's all it takes, sign me up to be the next VP! Así lo decimos todos.

[scolapasta]

ok, vote: Robz. Two wagons are better than one.

Wait, I'm not sure I get this. We already had 2 wagons - MiX and Jack. Why switch off one to be just the 2nd vote on Robz?

[Swowl]

Pasta es rojo

(I do not speak Spanish)

[LaLight]

I scumread MiX more than I believe ADK's claim. my vote stays

how do you read adk?

idk. More townie, than not, I guess

[faust]

Vote Count 3.7

MiX (4): ashersky, LaLight, Jack Rudd, Robz888
Swowl (1): SpaceAnemone
Jack Rudd (4): MiX, WestCoastDidds, A Drowned Kernel, scolapasta
Robz888 (2): Swowl, EFHW

Not Voting (1): Dylan32

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to exile. Day 2 ends April 12, 2021, 08:30:00 am. This is in about 4.5 hours.

[MiX]

I'm around until deadline.

By everyone's public claim of military vs civilian, Jack's at 1 vote versus my potential 3 votes. So I would say...can we change that?

[MiX]

ADK, can you remind us why you wanted to be VP? It's become more clear than you're military. I know that my though process (and I read the same thing in Didd's lack of desire to be VP when MiX had asked) was being miltary and being unsure of the turning point, I was not interested. Especially with MiX as President, as his play style could easily lend him to getting brigged. (in fact, I think the only thing saving him right now from being brigged is the fact that he's the president)

So why is it you put your name in the running?

This is an entirely reasonable question! That I'm not going to answer

Why do you defy your own president's platform:

Answering questions is fun and helpful which helps all alignments involved.

I don't like this line of argument. The apparent contradiction doesn't mean anything except that MiX likes to get information and doesn't want to give it now, possibly for good reasons. You could say that the original statement is scummy, though, because it encourages helping all alignments, which is weird given our opposing wincons. Also because, like I said before, sometimes you need to keep information to yourself for awhile.

I think it is meaningful. I agree MiX doesn't want to give out info, and that as a general concept giving out info isn't always pro-town, but the point is that if MiX clearly knows that, why does he try to imply that others who don't give info are either scummy at worse,  or not being helpful. That's why the contradiction frustrates me.

I hadn't noticed the "all alignments" thing originally. That is weird.

When did I say that, or scumread someone that doesn't give info? You were scumreading Didds for wanting to answer a question, and I found that incredibly wrong, they should be townread for it if anything (in reality it's NAI).

All alignments involved. So, if Didds is answering my question, it helps both of us. I'm townreading both of us, so it helps town, but from Didds' perspective, she would know it helps her to answer the question.

[SpaceAnemone]

I'm around, but back at work this week, so not really free to engage till 30 mins before deadline when my before-lunch meeting ends.

I think I'm mildly against a swing onto Robz just because he's a player who could provide some innovative content once he catches up, and I think that would help in this game. If we're left with a lurker exile, sadly I think Jack is a better choice there, even though I'm loathe to chase off a newbie in a tough game.

[MiX]

I'm around, but back at work this week, so not really free to engage till 30 mins before deadline when my before-lunch meeting ends.

I think I'm mildly against a swing onto Robz just because he's a player who could provide some innovative content once he catches up, and I think that would help in this game. If we're left with a lurker exile, sadly I think Jack is a better choice there, even though I'm loathe to chase off a newbie in a tough game.

We have the highest odds of overturning my exile if you vote Jack, but I will follow you everywhere.

[MiX]

I'm around, but back at work this week, so not really free to engage till 30 mins before deadline when my before-lunch meeting ends.

I think I'm mildly against a swing onto Robz just because he's a player who could provide some innovative content once he catches up, and I think that would help in this game. If we're left with a lurker exile, sadly I think Jack is a better choice there, even though I'm loathe to chase off a newbie in a tough game.

We have the highest odds of overturning my exile if you vote Jack, but I will follow you everywhere.

Actually, Robz would be higher, depending on Swowl and EFHW's civilianess.

[A Drowned Kernel]

I'm here. Military but would move my vote basically anywhere to stop a mix exile

[EFHW]

ok, vote: Robz. Two wagons are better than one.

Wait, I'm not sure I get this. We already had 2 wagons - MiX and Jack. Why switch off one to be just the 2nd vote on Robz?

Expecting the MiX wagon to dissolve.  Incorrectly  I guess. I'm military,  anyway.

[EFHW]

vote: Jack. I really hope MiX and ADK aren't scumbuddies.

[MiX]

vote: Jack. I really hope MiX and ADK aren't scumbuddies.

Dream team!

I guess that is one answer to this game state. But I would really emphasize that ADK needs to be scum for me to be scum

There's not much to convince here, I just need to pray there aren't 3 civilians voting me.

[EFHW]

I'm around until deadline.

By everyone's public claim of military vs civilian, Jack's at 1 vote versus my potential 3 votes. So I would say...can we change that?

I was expecting more urgency from you.

[MiX]

I'm around until deadline.

By everyone's public claim of military vs civilian, Jack's at 1 vote versus my potential 3 votes. So I would say...can we change that?

I was expecting more urgency from you.

I can't be panicking more than I am now. Have you realized that it is quite literally impossible to convince ash, Jack or Robz of anything? So I didn't really try. They're also not around, which doesn't help.

I wish Dylan had voted for...anyone.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Space?

[EFHW]

Are there 2 civilians on Jack?

[A Drowned Kernel]

Assuming everone's claims about military/civilian are true, no

[MiX]

Space?

They should be here in 45 minutes.

Yes, faust lied about the 4.5 hour until deadline, we have 1 more hour than that.

[EFHW]

ADK, can you remind us why you wanted to be VP? It's become more clear than you're military. I know that my though process (and I read the same thing in Didd's lack of desire to be VP when MiX had asked) was being miltary and being unsure of the turning point, I was not interested. Especially with MiX as President, as his play style could easily lend him to getting brigged. (in fact, I think the only thing saving him right now from being brigged is the fact that he's the president)

So why is it you put your name in the running?

This is an entirely reasonable question! That I'm not going to answer

Why do you defy your own president's platform:

Answering questions is fun and helpful which helps all alignments involved.

I don't like this line of argument. The apparent contradiction doesn't mean anything except that MiX likes to get information and doesn't want to give it now, possibly for good reasons. You could say that the original statement is scummy, though, because it encourages helping all alignments, which is weird given our opposing wincons. Also because, like I said before, sometimes you need to keep information to yourself for awhile.

I think it is meaningful. I agree MiX doesn't want to give out info, and that as a general concept giving out info isn't always pro-town, but the point is that if MiX clearly knows that, why does he try to imply that others who don't give info are either scummy at worse,  or not being helpful. That's why the contradiction frustrates me.

I hadn't noticed the "all alignments" thing originally. That is weird.

When did I say that, or scumread someone that doesn't give info? You were scumreading Didds for wanting to answer a question, and I found that incredibly wrong, they should be townread for it if anything (in reality it's NAI).

All alignments involved. So, if Didds is answering my question, it helps both of us. I'm townreading both of us, so it helps town, but from Didds' perspective, she would know it helps her to answer the question.

Everyone hears the answer, so scum are always involved.

[faust]

Yes, faust lied about the 4.5 hour until deadline, we have 1 more hour than that.

Whoops. Counting is hard.

[MiX]

Everyone hears the answer, so scum are always involved.

Well, that's not what I meant when I said what I said.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Space?

They should be here in 45 minutes.

Yes, faust lied about the 4.5 hour until deadline, we have 1 more hour than that.

In that case I'm going to go walk my cat. I'll be back before deadline

[EFHW]

Sorry about the wall  . Didn't realize, on phone.

[SpaceAnemone]

I'm here now.. meeting is on a pause and probably going to run into lunch when it re-starts.

Vote: Jack for what it's worth.

[MiX]

I'm here now.. meeting is on a pause and probably going to run into lunch when it re-starts.

Vote: Jack for what it's worth.

Are you a civilian?

[SpaceAnemone]

I'm here now.. meeting is on a pause and probably going to run into lunch when it re-starts.

Vote: Jack for what it's worth.

Are you a civilian?

Sorry.. saw that post then immediately got pulled back into my call. Free now. It's quiet in here!

Is revealing my civilain/military alignment more beneficial than leaving people guessing and requiring more votes to move if people want to be particularly sure of the outcome?

[MiX]

I'm here now.. meeting is on a pause and probably going to run into lunch when it re-starts.

Vote: Jack for what it's worth.

Are you a civilian?

Sorry.. saw that post then immediately got pulled back into my call. Free now. It's quiet in here!

Is revealing my civilain/military alignment more beneficial than leaving people guessing and requiring more votes to move if people want to be particularly sure of the outcome?

If you aren't civilian, I'm dead, so I would fullclaim. Otherwise, I'll take my chances.

It's like 6 minutes to deadline, no one's moving votes.

[SpaceAnemone]

Okay, let's say I'm military! I softed it earlier anyway when pointing out to Mathdude that people with military backgrounds tended to be the main characters in BSG, since he'd evidently been thinking that military might be somehow bad.

[MiX]

My first power is that I learn random things passively, I learned wthat a human aligned can turn cylon aligned, and I learned what the turning point for military being president without losing their powers is (they lose the order deck and gain day powers)

My other power is that I control the cylon test, I either say human or cylon, and that's what the cylon testing machine says, unless another person with my power picked something different, then it says what the person using it is. so like if a human is tested, and I picked human and the other person picked cylon, it would come out human, and that other eprsoj would know it's accurate

my preesonagl goal is living at the end of the game.

ADK is a third-party.

Okay, let's say I'm military! I softed it earlier anyway when pointing out to Mathdude that people with military backgrounds tended to be the main characters in BSG, since he'd evidently been thinking that military might be somehow bad.

RIP me.

[MiX]

I'm gaius baltar, and you have killed the person that God was personally controlling to make humans win. we are going to lose very horribly.

ADK's win condition is a secret.

Any questions?

[MiX]

ADK can deflect people, they picked me and someone N1, then swowl and scola N2.

[faust]

Day 3 Final Vote Count

MiX (4): ashersky, LaLight, Jack Rudd, Robz888
Jack Rudd (6): MiX, WestCoastDidds, A Drowned Kernel, scolapasta, EFHW, SpaceAnemone
Robz888 (1): Swowl

Not Voting (1): Dylan32

With 12 alive, it took 7 to exile.

[MiX]

Now that I am dead, ADK has no reason to play for town, the cylon testing machine doesn't work, and I don't get information which I presume was going to get better over time. We also trigger a turning point which I presume is pro-scum.

Scum team is ash, jack and robz, I'm not even kidding.

for the cylon power I picked cylon and then human, so from my perspective I don't know if the tests were accurate or the other person picked the same thing as me. that's why I was against ash killing himself all of this game.

[MiX]

I wonder if there's twylight: we've never exiled before.

I also hope Space was playing me, or that someone was fakeclaiming military for some reason.

[faust]

MiX is today's exile.

On the fleet's ships, large crowds gather in protest and support as an unimaginable accusation is floated: That the government itself was colluding with the enemy! In order to quell the riots, the remaining leadership announced that the President would be judged by a jury of their peers.

Today, the exiled player will not flip, and not be removed from the game. Instead, the following Day, 3 other random players will be publically selected. During the following Day, each of them may either vote Guilty or Not Guilty in the game thread. If a majority votes guilty, the President is sent to the brig and flips. Otherwise, they remain in the game. Until a decision is reached or the Day ends, the President may not take any Actions or place any vote.

Night 3 begins now and lasts at least 48 hours. Night actions are due by April 13, 2021, 08:30:00 pm.

THREAD LOCKED!

[faust]

What little sense of security we feel can be taken away at any moment. They are here, somewhere, trying to get us killed. Now they got another one of our own. We need to find the truth: Have we been misled this whole time?

Swowl has been incapacitated. They were Sharon "Boomer" Valerii, and they were human-aligned. They had the following types of powers:

• 2-shot, blocking, protective
• miscellaneous, investigative, passive
• miscellaneous, passive

A jury has been selected for the trial of MiX! It consists of A Drowned Kernel, SpaceAnemone and WestCoastDidds.

Day 4 begins! Thread unlocked!

Vote Count 4.0

Not Voting (11): Jack Rudd, SpaceAnemone, WestCoastDidds, MiX, EFHW, scolapasta, LaLight, Dylan32, A Drowned Kernel, Robz888, ashersky

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to exile. Day 4 ends April 21, 2021, 08:30:00 am.

[EFHW]

Is MiX still president? If not, it seems like too much power for the president to also be on the jury.

[faust]

Is MiX still president? If not, it seems like too much power for the president to also be on the jury.

MiX is still President. MiX is not on the jury.

[MiX]

Oh boy...what an interesting situation I am in.

Well. As you saw, I explained why I was acting the way I did, and what I thought of everything. Some posts have quite literally broken grammar and words in general as I was in a hurry, so please, ask any questions you may have.

My new piece of information will be posted shortly, as more people get to the thread.

Jack or Robz (or both) are civilians: this is what we learned with the civilian jurisdiction.

I couldn't pick anything for the cylon tester, so it's basically broken today. Unless there's 2 other people managing it (so 3 in total), which I highly doubt, but is possible.

So! What do we do now? Please ask me anything, aside from a select few things, I am an open book from now on.

[MiX]

My first power is that I learn random (although it says it depends on the current game state) things passively, I learned that a human aligned can turn cylon aligned (which confirms Awaclus' story) , and I learned what the turning point for military being president without losing their powers is (they lose the order deck and gain day powers, this will be public information once it happens, so I don't think it's relevant. I'll say it if you ask for it though.)

My other power is that I control the cylon testing machine. I can either choose "human" or "cylon", and if all players with this ability chose the same, the result of the testing will be this (so, if all players that have this power choose "human", and a cylon goes to test, it comes out as human), otherwise, the test is accurate. I have currently picked cylon, and then human, so from my perspective it's arbitrary, since I don't know the other person's choices. (I then couldn't pick, since I cannot do any actions).

My personal goal is living at the end of the game.

ADK is a third-party.

Edit By Way Of Posting Outside Of Twylight With More Time To Think About Grammar. (I also added new info that I said in the previous post).

[A Drowned Kernel]

Not Guilty

[EFHW]

Is MiX still president? If not, it seems like too much power for the president to also be on the jury.

MiX is still President. MiX is not on the jury.

Ok, good. I was referring to ADK being on the jury.

[WestCoastDidds]

Not Guilty

[faust]

As the jury members entered, A Drowned Kernel exclaimed "This is all a witch hunt! The President is obviously innocent!"

"I agree!", shouted WestCoastDidds.

"So... are we done here?", SpaceAnemone asked. "I didn't even take my seat yet..."

Presidential Jury Final Vote Count

Not Guilty (2): A Drowned Kernel, WestCoastDidds

Not Voting (1): SpaceAnemone

MiX has been judged not guilty! They are not sent to the brig.

[ashersky]

That was absolutely the most non-town thing I've ever seen.

I mean, I guess a "random" jury could have ended up there.  But then again, they didn't ask or allow for discussion.

The fact that the two voting members of the jury share a QT at night just makes it even more suspicious.

And ADK already claimed non-town.

[ashersky]

MiX, ADK, and WCD may not all be the same alignment, but they definitely are not town-aligned.

[ashersky]

I mean, we're basically looking at a town loss here.  Given we're working with a series, it could be our best interests to end the game quickly and move on to season 2.

[MiX]

That was absolutely the most non-town thing I've ever seen.

I mean, I guess a "random" jury could have ended up there.  But then again, they didn't ask or allow for discussion.

The fact that the two voting members of the jury share a QT at night just makes it even more suspicious.

And ADK already claimed non-town.

Do you mean that me and ADK have a QT?

MiX, ADK, and WCD may not all be the same alignment, but they definitely are not town-aligned.

Yes, I agree that ADK isn't town.

I mean, we're basically looking at a town loss here.  Given we're working with a series, it could be our best interests to end the game quickly and move on to season 2.

I'm town though, so we can still win.

[ashersky]

Space -- do you have anything to do with the others?  I guess that's the question for me at this point.

The mod said in bolded text that the jury would be selected randomly, so there's no reason to doubt that.

It's just incredibly unlucky that two of the three would be from the same evening QT, and one would be claimed 3rd Party that appears dead set on protecting MiX.

ADK's 3rd party claims could be cover for a mafia alignment I guess.  That would make sense with teaming up with MiX.

[ashersky]

The fact that the two voting members of the jury share a QT at night just makes it even more suspicious.

Do you mean that me and ADK have a QT?

Were you a member of the jury?

No, I did not mean you and ADK.

[MiX]

The fact that the two voting members of the jury share a QT at night just makes it even more suspicious.

Do you mean that me and ADK have a QT?

Were you a member of the jury?

No, I did not mean you and ADK.

Then, how do you know that?

[ashersky]

So how do we explain WCD's actions?  WCD knows that ADK is not town-aligned, and yet follows him.  What town player blindly follows a non-town player on purpose, without at least discussing it with everyone?  Another non-town player, of course.

[ashersky]

The fact that the two voting members of the jury share a QT at night just makes it even more suspicious.

Do you mean that me and ADK have a QT?

Were you a member of the jury?

No, I did not mean you and ADK.

Then, how do you know that?

I'm literally not allowed to say.  Like, posting restriction style.

[MiX]

The fact that the two voting members of the jury share a QT at night just makes it even more suspicious.

Do you mean that me and ADK have a QT?

Were you a member of the jury?

No, I did not mean you and ADK.

Then, how do you know that?

I'm literally not allowed to say.  Like, posting restriction style.

Is it related to the power you didn't claim?

[ashersky]

ADK is third-party, and supposedly wants to win with town.  How often has this situation come up?

And "wanting to win with town" definitely leaves open the possibility to win with other factions.

Then again, you wouldn't even exile me when I was arguing that I could eventually be a liability.  ADK being a future (or current) liability to town might not matter to most folks.

So, I mean, that seems like one player that needs to be exiled, pronto.

[ashersky]

The fact that the two voting members of the jury share a QT at night just makes it even more suspicious.

Do you mean that me and ADK have a QT?

Were you a member of the jury?

No, I did not mean you and ADK.

Then, how do you know that?

I'm literally not allowed to say.  Like, posting restriction style.

Is it related to the power you didn't claim?

Did I not claim a power?  If so, then most probably, yes.

[ashersky]

I think I most likely feel that the jury ends up being one town and two non-town, with Space being the one town player there.

I think it's just as possible ADK/WCD/MiX are just a mafia team as it is ADK is an actual 3rd party.  It's easy enough to run the mini-gambit with the fake 3rd party claim, then have your partners support it.  ADK and MiX are completely linked via grabbing government power, then making sure MiX survived.

[ashersky]

Also, our complete and utter inability to exile any players during this game makes for a frustrating experience.  If I had fun night actions, perhaps that makes up for it, but I do not.

No exile multiple times is painful, then a mafia exile being overturned by crooked jurors is rough.

I can't even get myself exiled.  Dude.

[SpaceAnemone]

"So... are we done here?", SpaceAnemone asked. "I didn't even take my seat yet..."[/i]

Haha, yes, quite! I was in meetings at work, and right now is my first chance to check in with the thread.

I don't know what to make of the sudden MiX-exoneration with no discussion. I honestly don't know which way I'd have cast my vote.

I had a QT with Swowl last night, for unknown reasons. Now he's incapacitated and with a green flip, I'll think about whether there's stuff from that  I want to share, though of course you'd all only have my word for what he thought anyway. I did ask him whether he'd vote to flip MiX if he had the chance, but unfortunately our awake times didn't line up very well, so I didn't get an answer from him on that before the thread closed.

[ashersky]

Now I'm in a conundrum, as MiX is clearly my top mafia read, but I definitely don't want ADK to survive any longer AND get presidential powers if we take out MiX.

Does anyone have a useful day power that could remove a player?

[ashersky]

Also noted that Swowl was that Boomer I asked about.  Turned out to be town, so what do I know?

If anything, that makes me more likely to be mafia.

[WestCoastDidds]

So how do we explain WCD's actions?  WCD knows that ADK is not town-aligned, and yet follows him.  What town player blindly follows a non-town player on purpose, without at least discussing it with everyone?  Another non-town player, of course.

I wasn't following ADK. He just woke up before I did.  I do not have an opinion about ADK's fate.  I would rather find scum than third party, but whatevs.

The majority of people in this game wanted to exile Jack Rudd.  Two civilians wanted to exile MiX.  My vote only makes sense.

[ashersky]

Jack Rudd, SpaceAnemone, WestCoastDidds, MiX, EFHW, scolapasta, LaLight, Dylan32, A Drowned Kernel, Robz888, ashersky

That's the list of players somehow still alive.  My guesses:

Town: Jack Rudd, Space, EFHW, scola, Dylan
Not Town: WCD, MiX, LL, ADK, Robz
Doesn't matter: ashersky

[WestCoastDidds]

Although, I think you are correct that we need an exile

vote: Jack

[MiX]

Now I'm in a conundrum, as MiX is clearly my top mafia read, but I definitely don't want ADK to survive any longer AND get presidential powers if we take out MiX.

Does anyone have a useful day power that could remove a player?

So you think I faked all that twylight talk just in case there was an unknown power that made me not flip? Why would I say ADK is third-party before I die if we're both scum? WIFOM exists, but doesn't that put ADK in a worse position, potentially getting exiled just for not being town?

Also noted that Swowl was that Boomer I asked about.  Turned out to be town, so what do I know?

If anything, that makes me more likely to be mafia.

It's so weird, Swowl was the one that asked Awaclus if he was Boomer...

I agree with that statement, even from your perspective you're more likely to be scum now. It's a very weird game.

Oh, by the way, I guess Awaclus flipping town did this already, but alignment changes are essentially confirmed to exist.

Although, I think you are correct that we need an exile

vote: Jack

Oh hey I can vote now!

Vote: scola

[ashersky]

So how do we explain WCD's actions?  WCD knows that ADK is not town-aligned, and yet follows him.  What town player blindly follows a non-town player on purpose, without at least discussing it with everyone?  Another non-town player, of course.

I wasn't following ADK. He just woke up before I did.  I do not have an opinion about ADK's fate.  I would rather find scum than third party, but whatevs.

The majority of people in this game wanted to exile Jack Rudd.  Two civilians wanted to exile MiX.  My vote only makes sense.

So, you are saying that exactly two of {ashersky, LL, Jack, Robz} are civilians.  How would you know that?
You are also saying that only one or zero of {MiX, WCD, ADK, scola, EFHW, Space} are civilians, as it only took two civilians to override the larger wagon.  How do you also know that?

And mind telling us which is which?  MiX claimed civilian, so are the other 5 all military?  Is MiX lying?

Also, how convenient that both you and ADK were on the losing wagon, and then got to be on the jury and make up a "majority" to overturn your loss.

[ashersky]

Now I'm in a conundrum, as MiX is clearly my top mafia read, but I definitely don't want ADK to survive any longer AND get presidential powers if we take out MiX.

Does anyone have a useful day power that could remove a player?

So you think I faked all that twylight talk just in case there was an unknown power that made me not flip? Why would I say ADK is third-party before I die if we're both scum? WIFOM exists, but doesn't that put ADK in a worse position, potentially getting exiled just for not being town?

I think you faked all of that because you knew you would not flip from the very beginning.  It was your own power, or ADK's power, or your faction's power.

Essentially, it was all planned in case you were the exile, knowing you could plant all sorts of seeds of doubt and misinformation.

[MiX]

Now I'm in a conundrum, as MiX is clearly my top mafia read, but I definitely don't want ADK to survive any longer AND get presidential powers if we take out MiX.

Does anyone have a useful day power that could remove a player?

So you think I faked all that twylight talk just in case there was an unknown power that made me not flip? Why would I say ADK is third-party before I die if we're both scum? WIFOM exists, but doesn't that put ADK in a worse position, potentially getting exiled just for not being town?

I think you faked all of that because you knew you would not flip from the very beginning.  It was your own power, or ADK's power, or your faction's power.

Essentially, it was all planned in case you were the exile, knowing you could plant all sorts of seeds of doubt and misinformation.

Isn't it clearly the turning point for the president to be brigged? It's possible scum knew of this beforehand, but...

[ashersky]

Now that I am dead, ADK has no reason to play for town, the cylon testing machine doesn't work, and I don't get information which I presume was going to get better over time. We also trigger a turning point which I presume is pro-scum.

Scum team is ash, jack and robz, I'm not even kidding.

for the cylon power I picked cylon and then human, so from my perspective I don't know if the tests were accurate or the other person picked the same thing as me. that's why I was against ash killing himself all of this game.

Why not vote one of the three players you claim is the mafia team?  You seemed so sure here, and yet you vote scola?

Nothing short of a mod-confirmation of your alignment will make me believe anything you say.

[ashersky]

Now I'm in a conundrum, as MiX is clearly my top mafia read, but I definitely don't want ADK to survive any longer AND get presidential powers if we take out MiX.

Does anyone have a useful day power that could remove a player?

So you think I faked all that twylight talk just in case there was an unknown power that made me not flip? Why would I say ADK is third-party before I die if we're both scum? WIFOM exists, but doesn't that put ADK in a worse position, potentially getting exiled just for not being town?

I think you faked all of that because you knew you would not flip from the very beginning.  It was your own power, or ADK's power, or your faction's power.

Essentially, it was all planned in case you were the exile, knowing you could plant all sorts of seeds of doubt and misinformation.

Isn't it clearly the turning point for the president to be brigged? It's possible scum knew of this beforehand, but...

You were not brigged, so the turning point didn't happen yet.

[ashersky]

As the jury members entered, A Drowned Kernel exclaimed "This is all a witch hunt! The President is obviously innocent!"

"I agree!", shouted WestCoastDidds.

"So... are we done here?", SpaceAnemone asked. "I didn't even take my seat yet..."

Presidential Jury Final Vote Count

Not Guilty (2): A Drowned Kernel, WestCoastDidds

Not Voting (1): SpaceAnemone

MiX has been judged not guilty! They are not sent to the brig.

See, not sent to the brig.  Wasn't brigged.  No turning point.

[ashersky]

If the jury had brigged you, we would have had a turning point.

More points against the mafia jury.  I mean, zero discussion.

[MiX]

Now that I am dead, ADK has no reason to play for town, the cylon testing machine doesn't work, and I don't get information which I presume was going to get better over time. We also trigger a turning point which I presume is pro-scum.

Scum team is ash, jack and robz, I'm not even kidding.

for the cylon power I picked cylon and then human, so from my perspective I don't know if the tests were accurate or the other person picked the same thing as me. that's why I was against ash killing himself all of this game.

Why not vote one of the three players you claim is the mafia team?  You seemed so sure here, and yet you vote scola?

Nothing short of a mod-confirmation of your alignment will make me believe anything you say.

The information I learned at night contradicts this.

If the jury had brigged you, we would have had a turning point.

More points against the mafia jury.  I mean, zero discussion.

What would be the point of the jury if it's not random?

[ashersky]

If I could have any day power, I would wish for the power to redirect all votes on my townreads to go to me.

That would at least hamstring bad cases and mis-exiles for a day.

[ashersky]

Now that I am dead, ADK has no reason to play for town, the cylon testing machine doesn't work, and I don't get information which I presume was going to get better over time. We also trigger a turning point which I presume is pro-scum.

Scum team is ash, jack and robz, I'm not even kidding.

for the cylon power I picked cylon and then human, so from my perspective I don't know if the tests were accurate or the other person picked the same thing as me. that's why I was against ash killing himself all of this game.

Why not vote one of the three players you claim is the mafia team?  You seemed so sure here, and yet you vote scola?

Nothing short of a mod-confirmation of your alignment will make me believe anything you say.

The information I learned at night contradicts this.

If the jury had brigged you, we would have had a turning point.

More points against the mafia jury.  I mean, zero discussion.

What would be the point of the jury if it's not random?

Feel free to share your info.  I won't believe it, though.

I believe the jury was random.  The mod language says so.  I just think it randomly selected mafia.

[ashersky]

Like, if I was on the jury, I was CLEARLY going to vote Guilty no matter what.  There's clearly no confusion there.

And yet, I would have been like, "hey, I'm on the jury, I'm definitely voting guilty, what does everyone else think, anything happen overnight?"

I mean, there could have been a cop with a guilty result on MiX!  But they didn't even wait for everyone to show up and post.  The third jury member was just cast away.  Insanely anti-town move.

[ashersky]

Hence, the jury members who voted are non-town.  No other viable option there.  Occam's razor.

(Plus, we already know ADK is not town.)

[ashersky]

Alright, it's late, I'm out.  Be back tomorrow at some point.

Feel free to just exile me while I'm gone though.  Just too frustrated right now to be losing so badly.

I mean, bravo non-town players, though.  Well played!  MVP will be a tough selection.

[Robz888]

I think having had almost no one die this entire game is making it pretty tough.

[WestCoastDidds]

So how do we explain WCD's actions?  WCD knows that ADK is not town-aligned, and yet follows him.  What town player blindly follows a non-town player on purpose, without at least discussing it with everyone?  Another non-town player, of course.

I wasn't following ADK. He just woke up before I did.  I do not have an opinion about ADK's fate.  I would rather find scum than third party, but whatevs.

The majority of people in this game wanted to exile Jack Rudd.  Two civilians wanted to exile MiX.  My vote only makes sense.

So, you are saying that exactly two of {ashersky, LL, Jack, Robz} are civilians.  How would you know that?
You are also saying that only one or zero of {MiX, WCD, ADK, scola, EFHW, Space} are civilians, as it only took two civilians to override the larger wagon.  How do you also know that?

And mind telling us which is which?  MiX claimed civilian, so are the other 5 all military?  Is MiX lying?

Also, how convenient that both you and ADK were on the losing wagon, and then got to be on the jury and make up a "majority" to overturn your loss.

Well of {ashersky, LL, Jack, Robz}, I know LL is military, so at least two but could three of the remainder are civilian. I am not sure that it matters.  A minority, by a lot, of the people voting were voting for MiX. The majority, by a lot of the people voting were voting for Jack.

Of {MiX, WCD, ADK, scola, EFHW, Space}, I know that WCD, ADK, scola, EFHW, and maybe Space are military. MiX is the civilian, Space could be. That information is from just keeping track of what people have said.

If Space is a civilian, then Ash, Jack, and Robz are all civilian.  If Space is military, at least two of them are.

As for convenience that ADK and I were on the jury...salty about a RNG? Or saying it was rigged?

[faust]

Vote Count 4.1

Jack Rudd (1): WestCoastDidds
scolapasta (1): MiX

Not Voting (9): Jack Rudd, SpaceAnemone, EFHW, scolapasta, LaLight, Dylan32, A Drowned Kernel, Robz888, ashersky

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to exile. Day 4 ends April 21, 2021, 08:30:00 am.

[scolapasta]

Man, a lot to catch up on! And on my busiest meeting day, so while I read everything, I won't have time to process until later tonight.

But ADK and WCD both voting for the jury without ANY DISCUSSION? That as to be one of the more anti town things I've seen.

I can 1/2 understand ADK, being VP, maybe??

But there is NO reason for WCD to vote there so early that is defensible.

Vote: WCD

I'll have to further process to see if I think that's actually the best place for my vote, but it's early in the day, no other votes, so I at least need this to be a sign how upset I am at this...

[MiX]

Man, a lot to catch up on! And on my busiest meeting day, so while I read everything, I won't have time to process until later tonight.

But ADK and WCD both voting for the jury without ANY DISCUSSION? That as to be one of the more anti town things I've seen.

I can 1/2 understand ADK, being VP, maybe??

But there is NO reason for WCD to vote there so early that is defensible.

Vote: WCD

I'll have to further process to see if I think that's actually the best place for my vote, but it's early in the day, no other votes, so I at least need this to be a sign how upset I am at this...

Hi scum! So who's your scumbuddies? I was thinking Didds, but I guess I was wrong?

Which of those statements do you actually believe? I guess the first one's true?

[WestCoastDidds]

Man, a lot to catch up on! And on my busiest meeting day, so while I read everything, I won't have time to process until later tonight.

But ADK and WCD both voting for the jury without ANY DISCUSSION? That as to be one of the more anti town things I've seen.

I can 1/2 understand ADK, being VP, maybe??

But there is NO reason for WCD to vote there so early that is defensible.

Vote: WCD

I'll have to further process to see if I think that's actually the best place for my vote, but it's early in the day, no other votes, so I at least need this to be a sign how upset I am at this...

You can be mad, and I get it. To my mind this was all about rectifying what happened yesterday and ALL of the military being deprived of a vote. It's not scummy. It wasn't ill considered.  I don't see any reason to let scum have any sway in my decision about MiX, nor do I think I need to justify anything to scum.  And the sooner I cast my vote, the sooner we could get on with the day.

[SpaceAnemone]

You can be mad, and I get it. To my mind this was all about rectifying what happened yesterday and ALL of the military being deprived of a vote. It's not scummy. It wasn't ill considered.  I don't see any reason to let scum have any sway in my decision about MiX, nor do I think I need to justify anything to scum.  And the sooner I cast my vote, the sooner we could get on with the day.

To be fair, the person you voted to acquit was exactly the same person who disenfranchised somewhere upwards of half the players in the game, so that's not exactly justice.

My vote on Jack was not reflective of whom I think is most likely to be scum, but of what the available choices were at the EoD and looking for information by joining a wagon and seeing reactions. I knew I was military and that my vote didn't count anyway, and so I voted accordingly. Having that vote used as part of the justification for clearing MiX is just kind of frustrating.

I do think you and ADK voting so quickly was very surprising. I would have expect that if you're a townies who presumably doesn't have any extra external information, then canvassing opinion and waiting for night information on MiX would have been the most sensible way forward. So I think either you're already sitting on information you're not telling us (either relating to MiX, to some personal goal, or to something I haven't even thought of) or I agree that it feels really suspicious that you didn't want to see what other info is out there before casting a deciding vote after an alleged non-townie had already voted that way.

[SpaceAnemone]

I think the next thing I'd like to see this game day is ADK responding in detail to what MiX claimed, and also giving their side of the story about ADK's link to Swowl.

[SpaceAnemone]

Also, some of the stuff Swowl and I talked about still contradicted what LL had claimed, if LL is assuming that Swowl was the person whose targeting he'd detected on N2, so that's another thing to puzzle out now we've seen Swowl's flip.

[LaLight]

Like, if I was on the jury, I was CLEARLY going to vote Guilty no matter what.  There's clearly no confusion there.

And yet, I would have been like, "hey, I'm on the jury, I'm definitely voting guilty, what does everyone else think, anything happen overnight?"

I mean, there could have been a cop with a guilty result on MiX!  But they didn't even wait for everyone to show up and post.  The third jury member was just cast away.  Insanely anti-town move.

i will reply to this post, but basically I only believe ash and me are town and we lost.

vote: WCD

[LaLight]

Alright, it's late, I'm out.  Be back tomorrow at some point.

Feel free to just exile me while I'm gone though.  Just too frustrated right now to be losing so badly.

I mean, bravo non-town players, though.  Well played!  MVP will be a tough selection.

thousands of yeses

[LaLight]

Man, a lot to catch up on! And on my busiest meeting day, so while I read everything, I won't have time to process until later tonight.

But ADK and WCD both voting for the jury without ANY DISCUSSION? That as to be one of the more anti town things I've seen.

I can 1/2 understand ADK, being VP, maybe??

But there is NO reason for WCD to vote there so early that is defensible.

Vote: WCD

I'll have to further process to see if I think that's actually the best place for my vote, but it's early in the day, no other votes, so I at least need this to be a sign how upset I am at this...

Hi scum! So who's your scumbuddies? I was thinking Didds, but I guess I was wrong?

Which of those statements do you actually believe? I guess the first one's true?

what a nerve, MiX.

yeah, i forgot about scola. he's town with us

[LaLight]

Also, some of the stuff Swowl and I talked about still contradicted what LL had claimed, if LL is assuming that Swowl was the person whose targeting he'd detected on N2, so that's another thing to puzzle out now we've seen Swowl's flip.

goodness, Swowl was human, I didn't detect a "blocking" action because I only detect Cylon's actions.

[LaLight]

Swowl was a jailkeeper and jailkept me on the night before this one

[LaLight]

also i wasn't targeted by any cylons since night 2

[MiX]

Well, enough people have acknowledged their existence.

I learned that there's at least 1 cylon-aligned player in the jack wagon. Which is why I'm voting scola and not jack.

Is this information good? Not really. Does anyone have anything better? Well, maybe Awaclus or Swowl did.

Also, my executive orders are Curfew, Presidential Pardon and Isolate Colonial One. I'm tempted to pick Isolate Colonial One so I don't die.

[MiX]

I think having had almost no one die this entire game is making it pretty tough.

Think about it this way: it's basically D2 of a regular game with a misexile and an extra NK, and we have 2 more nights of info, in theory.

Can you promise you'll play the game this day?

[Jack Rudd]

Maybe he will, maybe he won't.

Vote: Robz so that if he doesn't, it won't matter.

[SpaceAnemone]

Also, some of the stuff Swowl and I talked about still contradicted what LL had claimed, if LL is assuming that Swowl was the person whose targeting he'd detected on N2, so that's another thing to puzzle out now we've seen Swowl's flip.

goodness, Swowl was human, I didn't detect a "blocking" action because I only detect Cylon's actions.

Swowl was human-aligned (flipped green), but the character he was playing was most likely a cylon in terms of species. Swowl said in-thread that he'd begun to suspect he was a cylon, and he said a little more in the QT I had with him.

Also, Boomer is definitely a cylon in the series, in that she's one of the two model 8 cylons who're part of the main story arc. (The other is Athena, who's the cylon that gets involved with Helo).

So, if I understand this correctly, either you only detect cylon-aligned people's actions (which isn't what you've said up till now, but would explain why you seem to be implying that Swowl being human-aligned makes a difference), or you really do detect all Cylon-species actions (including actions taken by human-aligned cylons), but then still have some unexplained actions around Swowl's targeting.

[scolapasta]

OK! Work meetings over, time to try to respond to some things / ask some questions:

My first power is that I learn random (although it says it depends on the current game state) things passively, I learned that a human aligned can turn cylon aligned (which confirms Awaclus' story) , and I learned what the turning point for military being president without losing their powers is (they lose the order deck and gain day powers, this will be public information once it happens, so I don't think it's relevant. I'll say it if you ask for it though.)

Consider me asking... I'd guess it's actually more relevant than your telling us, since my going assumption was that ADK didn't want to be president to avoid this turning point. But it doesn't actually sound that bad from their perspective...

And ADK already claimed non-town.

Did I miss this claim? All I saw was MiX claiming ADK was 3rd party.

I had a QT with Swowl last night, for unknown reasons.

With Swowl incapacitated, of course, it's possible this is a bluff. Especially since ash claims that ADK and WCD had a QT last night. (but why bluff this AFTER he said that, so I'm prone to believe it).

So I'm more inclined that these nightly QTs are someone's power to grant. Anyone want to fess up? And similarly I wonder if there was any N2 QT?

The majority of people in this game wanted to exile Jack Rudd.  Two civilians wanted to exile MiX.  My vote only makes sense.

I don't follow this logic at all. Why does your vote have anything to follow from yesterday's vote? Besides, the most troubling aspect wasn't the vote itself (I was inclined to vote not guilty before not being selected for the jury), it's that you voted without waiting to see what anyone else posted.

[Quoting the next one out of order, because if relevance]:

You can be mad, and I get it. To my mind this was all about rectifying what happened yesterday and ALL of the military being deprived of a vote. It's not scummy. It wasn't ill considered.  I don't see any reason to let scum have any sway in my decision about MiX, nor do I think I need to justify anything to scum.  And the sooner I cast my vote, the sooner we could get on with the day.

Of course you don't need to justify anything to scum; but what about town. Are we not a team here?? (or are you 3rd party, like ash is suggesting). And the point isn't so much about that but about hearing what others could provide and opine. I do agree with not wanting it to drag out during the day, but you voted at just 90 minutes of being in the jury. There would have been plenty of time to let everyone check in and then still decide within, say, 24 hours. but again, 90 minutes!

Also, mysteriously absent is you're saying anything about this supposed QT you had with ADK (even a denial, or a denial of its influence in your decision).

I think you faked all of that because you knew you would not flip from the very beginning.  It was your own power, or ADK's power, or your faction's power.

Essentially, it was all planned in case you were the exile, knowing you could plant all sorts of seeds of doubt and misinformation.

I love it! this is the kind of Keyser Soze scheming I usually accuse someone of. I do have a theory on this, coming up in a future post...

(Plus, we already know ADK is not town.)

Well, we know that that is MiX's claim, at least.

Which of those statements do you actually believe? I guess the first one's true?

Not sure which statements you are referring to here.

goodness, Swowl was human, I didn't detect a "blocking" action because I only detect Cylon's actions.

Swowl was a jailkeeper and jailkept me on the night before this one

This is confusing to me. Either Swowl was human and you wouldn't have detected anything; or was a Cylon and you would've detected both blocking and protecting, no?


PPE: 1

[scolapasta]

So, I'm inclined to think that Mix is 3rd Party. There seems to be an abundance of clues to that throughout everything.

He himself told us he he wants to be alive at the end if the game, saying it was his character arc. But what if instead it's his role itself? I'm starting to think he could be a Survivor.

He seems very focused on staying alive, which is something we all do, but combine his decisions for staying alive, with his decisions that have been anti town. Also the kind of info he has claimed to receive for his power (assuming they are true) would definitely be useful for a Survivor - learning that some human-aligned can convert, that there was 1 Cylon-aligned on a wagon, etc.

The fact that he was not brigged when we voted him could even be a 1 shot power of his; something like, one time, when you are voted to be brigged, you will instead be tried by jury.  (this could be the case even if he's not 3rd party, but scum instead)

My last potential reason for this idea is that his character is Baltar. That would be the exact right character for such a role. And we do not that characters have related game effects like this - Roslin started out as President, Helo started out off the Galactica.

[WestCoastDidds]

Also, mysteriously absent is you're saying anything about this supposed QT you had with ADK (even a denial, or a denial of its influence in your decision).

Is this important for folks to know? How would it help us?

[MiX]

So, I'm inclined to think that Mix is 3rd Party. There seems to be an abundance of clues to that throughout everything.

He himself told us he he wants to be alive at the end if the game, saying it was his character arc. But what if instead it's his role itself? I'm starting to think he could be a Survivor.

He seems very focused on staying alive, which is something we all do, but combine his decisions for staying alive, with his decisions that have been anti town. Also the kind of info he has claimed to receive for his power (assuming they are true) would definitely be useful for a Survivor - learning that some human-aligned can convert, that there was 1 Cylon-aligned on a wagon, etc.

The fact that he was not brigged when we voted him could even be a 1 shot power of his; something like, one time, when you are voted to be brigged, you will instead be tried by jury.  (this could be the case even if he's not 3rd party, but scum instead)

My last potential reason for this idea is that his character is Baltar. That would be the exact right character for such a role. And we do not that characters have related game effects like this - Roslin started out as President, Helo started out off the Galactica.

Ok yes but why would I lie now? If I was a third-party, I wouldn't had ratted ADK out, I would've claimed it myself.

[SpaceAnemone]

I'm starting to think he could be a Survivor.

Yeah, I've been considering that too (complete with the speculation about the jury-of-peers thing being part of the role), but I feel like him outright saying that he wants to be alive at the end is too close to his actual role to be a fake-claim that would stand any chance of throwing us off his tracks, if that's what we think it might be. I  do agree that MiX has been kind of broadcasting 3rd party vibes for quite a while, though.

@MiX, how early in this game did you learn that ADK was third-party?

@ADK, are you going to openly confirm your status, or do you claim that MiX is lying?

[A Drowned Kernel]

I'm third party, I have more to say but am on my phone right now

[EFHW]

I'm rejecting all the conspiracy theories. They are too speculative to be helpful. And WCD voting precipitously seems NAI to me. It's interesting to hear that there was scum on the Jack wagon. I was planning to vote someone from the MiX wagon.

[SpaceAnemone]

Also, mysteriously absent is you're saying anything about this supposed QT you had with ADK (even a denial, or a denial of its influence in your decision).

Is this important for folks to know? How would it help us?

As the human-aligned juror who didn't get the memo about pre-court talks, I'd quite like to understand why! Like, if you two really had a QT, then I think it's very important for town to understand the reasoning that led both of you to vote the way you did, especially because ADK isn't human-aligned.

That said, if you didn't have a QT with ADK, I'd still like to understand why you sheeped their response so quickly, because it definitely seems anti-town not to have a discussion with actual townspeople involved. Merely saying that the majority of town wasn't voting for MiX really doesn't seem like enough of a reason not to exile to me, especially with so many unanswered questions around.

[SpaceAnemone]

I'm rejecting all the conspiracy theories. They are too speculative to be helpful. And WCD voting precipitously seems NAI to me. It's interesting to hear that there was scum on the Jack wagon. I was planning to vote someone from the MiX wagon.

What do you think of the cases where information doesn't add up, though? Do they make you at least a bit suspicious of the people making those claims?

I think having at least one cylon-aligned player on Jack still leaves room for at least one cylon-aligned player elsewhere. In a game this size, I think three cylon-aligned players is more or less what I'd assume.

As for the MiX wagon, I'd like to hear back from LL on what he means by #1322, which seems to imply that he assumes he didn't detect Swowl's actions in spite of the fact that Swowl may well have been a human-aligned cylon, because something doesn't quite add up there. I'm also likely to start feeling a Robz vote pretty soon, because scum-him could absolutely try to lurk this long using his "lacklustre town" meta as an excuse, but we also know he can do much better so I'd like to see some real content. Were you intending to vote for one of them?

[WestCoastDidds]

Also, mysteriously absent is you're saying anything about this supposed QT you had with ADK (even a denial, or a denial of its influence in your decision).

Is this important for folks to know? How would it help us?

As the human-aligned juror who didn't get the memo about pre-court talks, I'd quite like to understand why! Like, if you two really had a QT, then I think it's very important for town to understand the reasoning that led both of you to vote the way you did, especially because ADK isn't human-aligned.

That said, if you didn't have a QT with ADK, I'd still like to understand why you sheeped their response so quickly, because it definitely seems anti-town not to have a discussion with actual townspeople involved. Merely saying that the majority of town wasn't voting for MiX really doesn't seem like enough of a reason not to exile to me, especially with so many unanswered questions around.

I was in a QT with ADK, Swowl, and LaLight. ADK didn’t convince me, though; Swowl did. And when I saw his flip, I was sold.

[scolapasta]

So Swowl was in two QTs last night? And now he's incapacitated? (not that I'm saying there's necessarily a causal relationship there, just an interesting coincidence)

What I do find more interesting is that LaLight was in this QT buy voted for Didds.

[A Drowned Kernel]

I'm going to do this bullet-point style, cuz I have a lot to say

-I'm third party. I'm not going to say my win condition because I think doing so helps scum and I would like to help town right now. I will say a couple of things: I'm not a survivor. I can die and still win, and I can be alive at the end of the game and still lose. I do have to "share" victory with town or scum (or some hypothetical third faction), I can't win by myself

-I fullclaimed to mix in my first post in our QT. Me claiming to mix and collaborating with him for his benefit was the sole reason for me wanting to be VP. It helped my wincon, and it helped the wincon of whatever alignment mix happened to be. mix's reaction in our QT convinced me that he's town, but as I said yesterday, this is information that's only accessible to me. I feel comfortable saying all this now, because I think that mix's word vomit at the end of the day yesterday is a convincing argument that he's town. Obviously some people are going to disagree with this, but I'm at least hopeful that the majority of people will be settled as to mix's alignment

-I'm in a Viper Pilot neighborhood with didds, LL, and swowl, that's the QT ash is referring to. swowl claimed on N2 in that neighborhood that he was also in a neighborhood with another player, whose identity he didn't disclose, who he said he was townreading. I'm guessing this is ash, which makes ash a pretty unlikely scum candidate, since he wouldn't want to kill the person who was giving him information

-The fact that swowl died makes me suspicious that there is scum in LL/didds and that they want to try and get a private QT with me so they can try and negotiate. We could try to exile one of them, but of course if we exile one of them and they flip town, then I'm in a bad spot because people have extra reason to be suspicious of me. There's also the fact that the exact membership of the Viper Pilot neighborhood is not known; it's entirely possible that someone is part of it and has stayed hidden by simply not posting there

-I feel out-of-game remorse for ending the trial so quickly, because it seemed like a cool mechanic that could have been fun. But I was never going to vote guilty because doing so would directly harm my wincon. I was genuinely surprised that didds voted so quickly, though, and it does make me suspicious of her

In conclusion,

vote: robz

PPE: hey, didds claimed before I did

[WestCoastDidds]

So Swowl was in two QTs last night? And now he's incapacitated? (not that I'm saying there's necessarily a causal relationship there, just an interesting coincidence)

What I do find more interesting is that LaLight was in this QT buy voted for Didds.

We have had the QT since N0, although I didn’t figure it out until N1. So LL has been chatting with me and voting for me throughout.

If there is scum in our neighborhood, it’s LL.

[WestCoastDidds]

-I feel out-of-game remorse for ending the trial so quickly, because it seemed like a cool mechanic that could have been fun. But I was never going to vote guilty because doing so would directly harm my wincon. I was genuinely surprised that didds voted so quickly, though, and it does make me suspicious of her

A minor thing is that I had a busy day in tap today and I didn’t know if I’d be around later. The more important thing though was that, like you, I wasn’t going to change my mind because I think that a. MiX is town and b. Your wincon is tied to his and you want him alive so okay. The only thing that would have changed my mind is if MiX had said he wanted to be brigged.

I guess it was anti-town in that there wasn’t discussion we could scrutinize later, but I didn’t think much about that. I was just in taking care of business mode at the start of my work day.

[MiX]

I read ADK's post a couple of times and I confirm everything they're saying.

-I'm in a Viper Pilot neighborhood with didds, LL, and swowl, that's the QT ash is referring to. swowl claimed on N2 in that neighborhood that he was also in a neighborhood with another player, whose identity he didn't disclose, who he said he was townreading. I'm guessing this is ash, which makes ash a pretty unlikely scum candidate, since he wouldn't want to kill the person who was giving him information

Swowl was in a QT N3 with Space, and N2 with who you presume is ash...so who were they linked with N1?

[A Drowned Kernel]

I read ADK's post a couple of times and I confirm everything they're saying.

-I'm in a Viper Pilot neighborhood with didds, LL, and swowl, that's the QT ash is referring to. swowl claimed on N2 in that neighborhood that he was also in a neighborhood with another player, whose identity he didn't disclose, who he said he was townreading. I'm guessing this is ash, which makes ash a pretty unlikely scum candidate, since he wouldn't want to kill the person who was giving him information

Swowl was in a QT N3 with Space, and N2 with who you presume is ash...so who were they linked with N1?

swowl said he had his mystery qt since the start of the game. Is there a reason to think he was linked with someone N1? I honestly might have missed a claim somewhere

[MiX]

I read ADK's post a couple of times and I confirm everything they're saying.

-I'm in a Viper Pilot neighborhood with didds, LL, and swowl, that's the QT ash is referring to. swowl claimed on N2 in that neighborhood that he was also in a neighborhood with another player, whose identity he didn't disclose, who he said he was townreading. I'm guessing this is ash, which makes ash a pretty unlikely scum candidate, since he wouldn't want to kill the person who was giving him information

Swowl was in a QT N3 with Space, and N2 with who you presume is ash...so who were they linked with N1?

swowl said he had his mystery qt since the start of the game. Is there a reason to think he was linked with someone N1? I honestly might have missed a claim somewhere

Oh, okay. It's just that Swowl's been in 3 QTs now, maybe some of them are from his powers? He had 2 passives, after all.

[EFHW]

I'm rejecting all the conspiracy theories. They are too speculative to be helpful. And WCD voting precipitously seems NAI to me. It's interesting to hear that there was scum on the Jack wagon. I was planning to vote someone from the MiX wagon.

What do you think of the cases where information doesn't add up, though? Do they make you at least a bit suspicious of the people making those claims?

Which claims don't add up?

[scolapasta]

Those of you who had a QT with Swowl, did he ever tell you who he blocked / protected N1? Because that might help us figure out the no NK on N1.

[ashersky]

Those of you who had a QT with Swowl, did he ever tell you who he blocked / protected N1? Because that might help us figure out the no NK on N1.

Couldn't that just have been fear/reluctance of the Hated modifier?

[ashersky]

So how do we explain WCD's actions?  WCD knows that ADK is not town-aligned, and yet follows him.  What town player blindly follows a non-town player on purpose, without at least discussing it with everyone?  Another non-town player, of course.

I wasn't following ADK. He just woke up before I did.  I do not have an opinion about ADK's fate.  I would rather find scum than third party, but whatevs.

The majority of people in this game wanted to exile Jack Rudd.  Two civilians wanted to exile MiX.  My vote only makes sense.

So, you are saying that exactly two of {ashersky, LL, Jack, Robz} are civilians.  How would you know that?
You are also saying that only one or zero of {MiX, WCD, ADK, scola, EFHW, Space} are civilians, as it only took two civilians to override the larger wagon.  How do you also know that?

And mind telling us which is which?  MiX claimed civilian, so are the other 5 all military?  Is MiX lying?

Also, how convenient that both you and ADK were on the losing wagon, and then got to be on the jury and make up a "majority" to overturn your loss.

Well of {ashersky, LL, Jack, Robz}, I know LL is military, so at least two but could three of the remainder are civilian. I am not sure that it matters.  A minority, by a lot, of the people voting were voting for MiX. The majority, by a lot of the people voting were voting for Jack.

Of {MiX, WCD, ADK, scola, EFHW, Space}, I know that WCD, ADK, scola, EFHW, and maybe Space are military. MiX is the civilian, Space could be. That information is from just keeping track of what people have said.

If Space is a civilian, then Ash, Jack, and Robz are all civilian.  If Space is military, at least two of them are.

As for convenience that ADK and I were on the jury...salty about a RNG? Or saying it was rigged?

Bolded and upsized something with which I strongly disagree.

We are talking about 4 votes and 6 votes.

There were 12 players.  You know what a majority of 12 players would be?  7.  You know what a majority "by a lot" would be?  Like, I don't know, 10?  You know what is neither a majority NOR a majority by a lot?  6.

Like 6, 4 is also a minority of votes.  Is 4 a minority "by a lot"?  Maybe, that's subjective.  But it seems hyperbolic at best for you to make such a statement.

We're talking about a very close result.  Literally one person switching would have made them even.  This is just exaggerated defense for an indefensible move.

[ashersky]

I was in a QT with ADK, Swowl, and LaLight. ADK didn’t convince me, though; Swowl did. And when I saw his flip, I was sold.

Fairly sure the bolded is a lie.  Like, 93% sure.

[ashersky]

Well, enough people have acknowledged their existence.

I learned that there's at least 1 cylon-aligned player in the jack wagon. Which is why I'm voting scola and not jack.

Why not WCD?

[ashersky]

So, if I understand this correctly, either you only detect cylon-aligned people's actions (which isn't what you've said up till now, but would explain why you seem to be implying that Swowl being human-aligned makes a difference), or you really do detect all Cylon-species actions (including actions taken by human-aligned cylons), but then still have some unexplained actions around Swowl's targeting.

I would also like a better explanation of LL's claim, as I'm confused.

[ashersky]

Man, a lot to catch up on! And on my busiest meeting day, so while I read everything, I won't have time to process until later tonight.

But ADK and WCD both voting for the jury without ANY DISCUSSION? That as to be one of the more anti town things I've seen.

I can 1/2 understand ADK, being VP, maybe??

But there is NO reason for WCD to vote there so early that is defensible.

Vote: WCD

I'll have to further process to see if I think that's actually the best place for my vote, but it's early in the day, no other votes, so I at least need this to be a sign how upset I am at this...

You can be mad, and I get it. To my mind this was all about rectifying what happened yesterday and ALL of the military being deprived of a vote. It's not scummy. It wasn't ill considered.  I don't see any reason to let scum have any sway in my decision about MiX, nor do I think I need to justify anything to scum.  And the sooner I cast my vote, the sooner we could get on with the day.

As Space pointed out, you literally saved the player who disenfranchised the military.  So your logic does not track.

Also, the military being unable to vote has no impact on the alignment of the player who was exiled.  Why can't the civilians get it right?

Who says we couldn't get on with our day concurrently with the jury making up its mind?  The opening day post has a regular vote count in it.  I assume we could have just played the day and had the jury decide on MiX at any time.  There may have been tons of advantageous information gains to be had through faking one decision or the other, forcing information out of MiX in exchange for not guilty votes, etc. etc. etc.  There were literally so many possibilities to this.  I'm guessing faust may have even thought of some of them when including this mechanic.

Instead, you anti-town-edly just destroyed any chance we had of using this mechanic for any gain.

[ashersky]

Well, enough people have acknowledged their existence.

I learned that there's at least 1 cylon-aligned player in the jack wagon. Which is why I'm voting scola and not jack.

Is this information good? Not really. Does anyone have anything better? Well, maybe Awaclus or Swowl did.

Also, my executive orders are Curfew, Presidential Pardon and Isolate Colonial One. I'm tempted to pick Isolate Colonial One so I don't die.

I believe Curfew is the only pro-town option out of those three.  The other two are strictly Pro-MiX.

[LaLight]

I don't get why my power is so confusing, this looks clear to me. I didn't see the "blocking" action. this means that no Cylons used a blocking action on me. This means that either:

- DatSwan didn't use an action on me
- DatSwan is not a Cylon

I don't think he would lie about using an action, therefore he's not a Cylon.

This is it

[LaLight]

well, also he might've been roleblocked, I guess

[LaLight]

i see the kinds of power Cylons used on me. this is literally my power.

Yes, I am in neighbourhood with Didds and I don't know why this should mean I have to townread her or be scum. No one claimed practically anything in this neighbourhood instead of me.

[LaLight]

I do not have any other powers, y'all know literally everything I know.

[Dylan32]

You can be mad, and I get it. To my mind this was all about rectifying what happened yesterday and ALL of the military being deprived of a vote. It's not scummy. It wasn't ill considered.  I don't see any reason to let scum have any sway in my decision about MiX, nor do I think I need to justify anything to scum.  And the sooner I cast my vote, the sooner we could get on with the day.

To be fair, the person you voted to acquit was exactly the same person who disenfranchised somewhere upwards of half the players in the game, so that's not exactly justice.

My vote on Jack was not reflective of whom I think is most likely to be scum, but of what the available choices were at the EoD and looking for information by joining a wagon and seeing reactions. I knew I was military and that my vote didn't count anyway, and so I voted accordingly. Having that vote used as part of the justification for clearing MiX is just kind of frustrating.

I do think you and ADK voting so quickly was very surprising. I would have expect that if you're a townies who presumably doesn't have any extra external information, then canvassing opinion and waiting for night information on MiX would have been the most sensible way forward. So I think either you're already sitting on information you're not telling us (either relating to MiX, to some personal goal, or to something I haven't even thought of) or I agree that it feels really suspicious that you didn't want to see what other info is out there before casting a deciding vote after an alleged non-townie had already voted that way.

This was exactly my reaction to that post. And I pretty well agree with the rest of it.


I also think, unless I missed some other information somewhere, LL's claim has been pretty consistent (and consistently misunderstood [or twisted intentionally I guess] by people). This makes me feel pretty good about LL being town.

[ashersky]

I don't get why my power is so confusing, this looks clear to me. I didn't see the "blocking" action. this means that no Cylons used a blocking action on me. This means that either:

- DatSwan didn't use an action on me
- DatSwan is not a Cylon

I don't think he would lie about using an action, therefore he's not a Cylon.

This is it

To confirm just my understanding, we see Swowl had a "blocking, protective" action, and that was a jailkeep according to Swowl claiming to you?

And you did not see a blocking, protective action target you the night that Swowl targeted you, so if Swowl was successful in jailkeeping you, Swowl would need to be a non-cylon.

Is your thing passive or active?  I wonder if being jailkept would have blocked it from working.

[LaLight]

I also think, unless I missed some other information somewhere, LL's claim has been pretty consistent (and consistently misunderstood [or twisted intentionally I guess] by people). This makes me feel pretty good about LL being town.

yes! thank you!

[LaLight]

I don't get why my power is so confusing, this looks clear to me. I didn't see the "blocking" action. this means that no Cylons used a blocking action on me. This means that either:

- DatSwan didn't use an action on me
- DatSwan is not a Cylon

I don't think he would lie about using an action, therefore he's not a Cylon.

This is it

To confirm just my understanding, we see Swowl had a "blocking, protective" action, and that was a jailkeep according to Swowl claiming to you?

And you did not see a blocking, protective action target you the night that Swowl targeted you, so if Swowl was successful in jailkeeping you, Swowl would need to be a non-cylon.

Is your thing passive or active?  I wonder if being jailkept would have blocked it from working.

passive and yes, exactly other than he didn't claim he was a jailkeeper i just deduced this from blocking/protective, what other role would that be

[ashersky]

What exactly did you see that night?

[LaLight]

What exactly did you see that night?

killing and protective

[scolapasta]

Right, so where did the protective come from? There's some other Cylon doctor type out there? (and with Human swowl, you were doubly protected?)

(plus who tried to kill you? If it were scum, then who incapacitated Awaclus?)

[scolapasta]

I'm starting to think he could be a Survivor.

Yeah, I've been considering that too (complete with the speculation about the jury-of-peers thing being part of the role), but I feel like him outright saying that he wants to be alive at the end is too close to his actual role to be a fake-claim that would stand any chance of throwing us off his tracks, if that's what we think it might be. I  do agree that MiX has been kind of broadcasting 3rd party vibes for quite a while, though.

@MiX, how early in this game did you learn that ADK was third-party?

@ADK, are you going to openly confirm your status, or do you claim that MiX is lying?

Actually one more piece that doesn't quite add up: Mix claimed his two powers were getting random factoids and running the Cylon test. But the cylon test didn't exist until the 2nd day. So at the start of the game, Mix's role in an RMM would be town with a simple passive power and that's it.

However, if we consider Survivor MiX, then a 2nd passive (but big) power, being able to possibly escape a brigging, plus an alternative win condition? That sounds much more like an RMM to me.

And I could imagine that gaining the Cylon testing machine power wasn't a character power, but an artifact of his being president at the start of D2. Maybe it's a President / VP thing?

(would that it had been a President / Fleet Admiral thing, but I can say it's not me who has the test power).

OR maybe it's just the President, and it works completely differently, but MiX leading us to believe it's a 2 person thing, would allow him to steer our understanding of the results in a way that favors his survival.

[LaLight]

Right, so where did the protective come from? There's some other Cylon doctor type out there? (and with Human swowl, you were doubly protected?)

(plus who tried to kill you? If it were scum, then who incapacitated Awaclus?)

These are all amazing questions

[SpaceAnemone]

Bolded and upsized something with which I strongly disagree.

The way I'm reading things with WCD, she was persuaded by the Swowl-ADK axis in the viper pilot QT, and then came into the thread thinking that she could pass her pre-decided vote off as un-suspicious by giving those excuses, when in fact it looked super-dodgy. At least, the fact that the viper pilot QT story is backed by other players makes me believe that over the first bits of twisted truths WCD gave the thread after her vote.

[SpaceAnemone]

I'm rejecting all the conspiracy theories. They are too speculative to be helpful. And WCD voting precipitously seems NAI to me. It's interesting to hear that there was scum on the Jack wagon. I was planning to vote someone from the MiX wagon.

What do you think of the cases where information doesn't add up, though? Do they make you at least a bit suspicious of the people making those claims?

Which claims don't add up?

Swowl flipped as a character who's a cylon in BSG, and had openly said he believed himself to be a Cylon. Then LL says he can detect cylon targets, but the two claims about what precisely targeted LL don't match up. That, plus LL's power wasn't originally described as having evolved from N1 onwards, but the claim was later partially retconned so that on D1 he only knew he'd been targeted by a cylon, but later on he got to know the action type.

I think it's plausible that LL has been lying, or at least only partially reporting something about his role that suits some personal agenda. Otherwise we have a human-species cylon character, and simultaneously we have rather too many unexplained NK actions on the night that LL claims he was targeted by a cylon and then also Awaclus was incapacitated.

[LaLight]

I'm rejecting all the conspiracy theories. They are too speculative to be helpful. And WCD voting precipitously seems NAI to me. It's interesting to hear that there was scum on the Jack wagon. I was planning to vote someone from the MiX wagon.

What do you think of the cases where information doesn't add up, though? Do they make you at least a bit suspicious of the people making those claims?

Which claims don't add up?

Swowl flipped as a character who's a cylon in BSG, and had openly said he believed himself to be a Cylon. Then LL says he can detect cylon targets, but the two claims about what precisely targeted LL don't match up. That, plus LL's power wasn't originally described as having evolved from N1 onwards, but the claim was later partially retconned so that on D1 he only knew he'd been targeted by a cylon, but later on he got to know the action type.

I think it's plausible that LL has been lying, or at least only partially reporting something about his role that suits some personal agenda. Otherwise we have a human-species cylon character, and simultaneously we have rather too many unexplained NK actions on the night that LL claims he was targeted by a cylon and then also Awaclus was incapacitated.

I believed I already claimed that originally I only got to know if I was targeted by a Cylon or not, but I also could separate myself from you all on D2 (which I did) that let my power to evolve. I didn't know how it would evolve, and I even asked in Viper QT if I should separate myself and most of the people told I should and I did and here we are

[LaLight]

my personal agenda is as well claimed by me, I literally have nothing else to claim that I already did, except what happened in VP QT, that really wasn't that informative. For instance on one night everyone was asking me questions about my role and I said how about you tell me and then everyone refused and the night ended.

[LaLight]

how about a massclaim?

[MiX]

I'm starting to think he could be a Survivor.

Yeah, I've been considering that too (complete with the speculation about the jury-of-peers thing being part of the role), but I feel like him outright saying that he wants to be alive at the end is too close to his actual role to be a fake-claim that would stand any chance of throwing us off his tracks, if that's what we think it might be. I  do agree that MiX has been kind of broadcasting 3rd party vibes for quite a while, though.

@MiX, how early in this game did you learn that ADK was third-party?

@ADK, are you going to openly confirm your status, or do you claim that MiX is lying?

Actually one more piece that doesn't quite add up: Mix claimed his two powers were getting random factoids and running the Cylon test. But the cylon test didn't exist until the 2nd day. So at the start of the game, Mix's role in an RMM would be town with a simple passive power and that's it.

However, if we consider Survivor MiX, then a 2nd passive (but big) power, being able to possibly escape a brigging, plus an alternative win condition? That sounds much more like an RMM to me.

And I could imagine that gaining the Cylon testing machine power wasn't a character power, but an artifact of his being president at the start of D2. Maybe it's a President / VP thing?

(would that it had been a President / Fleet Admiral thing, but I can say it's not me who has the test power).

OR maybe it's just the President, and it works completely differently, but MiX leading us to believe it's a 2 person thing, would allow him to steer our understanding of the results in a way that favors his survival.

I can explain this: I had the ability to choose "human" or "cylon" N1 for the cylon testing machine, but I didn't know what it meant. I only learned D2 how the machine works (that is, how it's influenced by my decision at night).

how about a massclaim?

I agree with this.

Can you restate your other power? The one that isn't watcher on yourself.

[LaLight]

I'm starting to think he could be a Survivor.

Yeah, I've been considering that too (complete with the speculation about the jury-of-peers thing being part of the role), but I feel like him outright saying that he wants to be alive at the end is too close to his actual role to be a fake-claim that would stand any chance of throwing us off his tracks, if that's what we think it might be. I  do agree that MiX has been kind of broadcasting 3rd party vibes for quite a while, though.

@MiX, how early in this game did you learn that ADK was third-party?

@ADK, are you going to openly confirm your status, or do you claim that MiX is lying?

Actually one more piece that doesn't quite add up: Mix claimed his two powers were getting random factoids and running the Cylon test. But the cylon test didn't exist until the 2nd day. So at the start of the game, Mix's role in an RMM would be town with a simple passive power and that's it.

However, if we consider Survivor MiX, then a 2nd passive (but big) power, being able to possibly escape a brigging, plus an alternative win condition? That sounds much more like an RMM to me.

And I could imagine that gaining the Cylon testing machine power wasn't a character power, but an artifact of his being president at the start of D2. Maybe it's a President / VP thing?

(would that it had been a President / Fleet Admiral thing, but I can say it's not me who has the test power).

OR maybe it's just the President, and it works completely differently, but MiX leading us to believe it's a 2 person thing, would allow him to steer our understanding of the results in a way that favors his survival.

I can explain this: I had the ability to choose "human" or "cylon" N1 for the cylon testing machine, but I didn't know what it meant. I only learned D2 how the machine works (that is, how it's influenced by my decision at night).

how about a massclaim?

I agree with this.

Can you restate your other power? The one that isn't watcher on yourself.

my other what? did you guys have more than one power?

[LaLight]

do you*

eh, I broke the meme

[LaLight]

anyway I don't have anything else. It's 4 things:

1) Day One I am away
2) I can see if Cylons targeted me
3) I can stay away 1 more day to upgrade 2
4) I have a viper qt

[A Drowned Kernel]

I was in a QT with ADK, Swowl, and LaLight. ADK didn’t convince me, though; Swowl did. And when I saw his flip, I was sold.

Fairly sure the bolded is a lie.  Like, 93% sure.

I will say that swowl expressed a pretty strong townread on mix in the viper qt. Whether it's plausible that that convinced didds is another story

[MiX]

do you*

eh, I broke the meme

Swowl has been incapacitated. They were Sharon "Boomer" Valerii, and they were human-aligned. They had the following types of powers:

• 2-shot, blocking, protective
• miscellaneous, investigative, passive
• miscellaneous, passive

I have 3 powers, so town better start claiming results!

Awaclus has been incapacitated! They were Billy Keikeya, and they were human-aligned. They had the following powers:

• 2-shot, investigative
• 1-shot, miscellaneous

I only have 2!

LaLight:

I only have 1, what are you talking about?

Mathdude:

Wait, you guys can use powers?

[MiX]

I was in a QT with ADK, Swowl, and LaLight. ADK didn’t convince me, though; Swowl did. And when I saw his flip, I was sold.

Fairly sure the bolded is a lie.  Like, 93% sure.

I will say that swowl expressed a pretty strong townread on mix in the viper qt. Whether it's plausible that that convinced didds is another story

Ha. I'd assumed you convinced Didds, some way or another.

[MiX]

Well, enough people have acknowledged their existence.

I learned that there's at least 1 cylon-aligned player in the jack wagon. Which is why I'm voting scola and not jack.

Is this information good? Not really. Does anyone have anything better? Well, maybe Awaclus or Swowl did.

Also, my executive orders are Curfew, Presidential Pardon and Isolate Colonial One. I'm tempted to pick Isolate Colonial One so I don't die.

I believe Curfew is the only pro-town option out of those three.  The other two are strictly Pro-MiX.

How does it help town? We're a point where if town's Hated enough, and we misexile, scum can all pile on one person and kill them.

I agree that Presidential Pardon just helps me, but Isolate Colonial One seems fine. Spend your investigative powers elsewhere, it's not like they're going to waste.

[LaLight]

do you*

eh, I broke the meme

Swowl has been incapacitated. They were Sharon "Boomer" Valerii, and they were human-aligned. They had the following types of powers:

• 2-shot, blocking, protective
• miscellaneous, investigative, passive
• miscellaneous, passive

I have 3 powers, so town better start claiming results!

Awaclus has been incapacitated! They were Billy Keikeya, and they were human-aligned. They had the following powers:

• 2-shot, investigative
• 1-shot, miscellaneous

I only have 2!

LaLight:

I only have 1, what are you talking about?

Mathdude:

Wait, you guys can use powers?

Thank you!

[scolapasta]

MiX are you planning on keeping ADK as VP or changing to someone else?

[LaLight]

the weirdest thing just happen to me. Any VPN routes going through Russia told me I can't access fds. what the actual hell, what did you block this time damn politics. good enough I need an american vpn to access freaking quicktopic

[LaLight]

sorry for that, I'm pretty pissed. go on

[MiX]

MiX are you planning on keeping ADK as VP or changing to someone else?

I'm planning on changing VPs, but I'm not sure to whom.

[Robz888]

Vote: ADK

I feel like in every other game I've played, there has been a strong tendency to kill self-confessed third-party folks.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Vote: ADK

I feel like in every other game I've played, there has been a strong tendency to kill self-confessed third-party folks.

Do you think that doing so is a good idea?

[scolapasta]

Man, where is everybody? Are all of you now in super secret QTs and just posting there? Hello?!?

[A Drowned Kernel]

Man, where is everybody? Are all of you now in super secret QTs and just posting there? Hello?!?

I'm here, what's up?

[scolapasta]

Man, where is everybody? Are all of you now in super secret QTs and just posting there? Hello?!?

I'm here, what's up?

Well, since it's just you and me here, want to tell me your win condition?

On a more serious note, who do you think MiX should pick for his next VP? And what makes you so convinced that Mix is town? Is there any merit to my Survivor MiX idea?

OK, one more, are you (as VP) the other half of the Cylon test detector?

[A Drowned Kernel]

Man, where is everybody? Are all of you now in super secret QTs and just posting there? Hello?!?

I'm here, what's up?

Well, since it's just you and me here, want to tell me your win condition?

On a more serious note, who do you think MiX should pick for his next VP? And what makes you so convinced that Mix is town? Is there any merit to my Survivor MiX idea?

OK, one more, are you (as VP) the other half of the Cylon test detector?

I have an opinion on who mix should pick, but I'll probably just tell him in our QT. If mix was a survivor, it's hard to believe he wouldn't have told me at this point

And lastly, no

[scolapasta]

Mix, did you miss this?

My first power is that I learn random (although it says it depends on the current game state) things passively, I learned that a human aligned can turn cylon aligned (which confirms Awaclus' story) , and I learned what the turning point for military being president without losing their powers is (they lose the order deck and gain day powers, this will be public information once it happens, so I don't think it's relevant. I'll say it if you ask for it though.)

Consider me asking... I'd guess it's actually more relevant than your telling us, since my going assumption was that ADK didn't want to be president to avoid this turning point. But it doesn't actually sound that bad from their perspective...

Also, yesterday you kept waiting and waiting for robz to check in before you were going to reveal something? What was it (I assume you revealed it in the info dump) and why was it important to wait for Robz?

[MiX]

Mix, did you miss this?

My first power is that I learn random (although it says it depends on the current game state) things passively, I learned that a human aligned can turn cylon aligned (which confirms Awaclus' story) , and I learned what the turning point for military being president without losing their powers is (they lose the order deck and gain day powers, this will be public information once it happens, so I don't think it's relevant. I'll say it if you ask for it though.)

Consider me asking... I'd guess it's actually more relevant than your telling us, since my going assumption was that ADK didn't want to be president to avoid this turning point. But it doesn't actually sound that bad from their perspective...

Also, yesterday you kept waiting and waiting for robz to check in before you were going to reveal something? What was it (I assume you revealed it in the info dump) and why was it important to wait for Robz?

I didn't miss it, it was just kinda early in the day and I didn't see the point.

So, when a military becomes the president and does not choose to revoke their powers, the presidential powers are replaced with two powers: a day roleblocker, which is public and blocks for the next night, and a day vigilante, which if it hits town, triggers another turning point.

And the thing I was hinting at was a misunderstandment: at the time, I thought ADK was a redirector, and since they had picked Swowl and scola, I wanted to shed some light on the "conflict" between Swowl and LaLight. But then ADK reminded me that's not how their power works, so I never ended up saying anything.

[SpaceAnemone]

Huh, Robz's re-appearance hasn't exactly sparked confidence that he's townie about about to provide a whole lot of useful takes.

In fact, third-party-voting instead of scum-hunting seems vaguely scummy, as does an undercontributing Robz.

Vote: Robz

We could also consider whether Robz might be a good nominee for the cylon detector today, by way of prompting him to engage a bit more.. unless anyone else has suggestions?

[MiX]

Huh, Robz's re-appearance hasn't exactly sparked confidence that he's townie about about to provide a whole lot of useful takes.

In fact, third-party-voting instead of scum-hunting seems vaguely scummy, as does an undercontributing Robz.

Vote: Robz

We could also consider whether Robz might be a good nominee for the cylon detector today, by way of prompting him to engage a bit more.. unless anyone else has suggestions?

The cylon detector is essentially broken, unless there's 2 other players with my power, as I couldn't use it due to being pseudo-exiled.

I would vote Robz, but as silly as it sounds, I think we should narrow down the Jack wagon due to my result. It's the closest thing we have to mechanical information this game. Also, I don't know how many people are voting for Robz already.

[WestCoastDidds]

Hi!

I am completely swamped at work, so this is based on skimming...

So, Mix says he has a result that one of these folks is cylon-aligned?
Jack Rudd (6): MiX, WestCoastDidds, A Drowned Kernel, scolapasta, EFHW, SpaceAnemone

So, for me its one of the last three. Space seems the least likely.

MiX, why scola over EFHW?

[EFHW]

I'm gaius baltar, and you have killed the person that God was personally controlling to make humans win. we are going to lose very horribly.

ADK's win condition is a secret.

Any questions?

What did  you mean here? How is God controlling you?

[EFHW]

MiX, could you give us a run down in order of the tidbits of info you've been receiving as part of your power?

[EFHW]

I read ADK's post a couple of times and I confirm everything they're saying.

-I'm in a Viper Pilot neighborhood with didds, LL, and swowl, that's the QT ash is referring to. swowl claimed on N2 in that neighborhood that he was also in a neighborhood with another player, whose identity he didn't disclose, who he said he was townreading. I'm guessing this is ash, which makes ash a pretty unlikely scum candidate, since he wouldn't want to kill the person who was giving him information

Swowl was in a QT N3 with Space, and N2 with who you presume is ash...so who were they linked with N1?

Why presume it was ash?

[EFHW]

re: Jack wagon, I'm thinking Didds or scola. It feels to me that Didds had too many reasons for the precipitous vote.
On the MiX wagon, I'm thinking Jack or Robz.

[scolapasta]

Hi!

I am completely swamped at work, so this is based on skimming...

So, Mix says he has a result that one of these folks is cylon-aligned?
Jack Rudd (6): MiX, WestCoastDidds, A Drowned Kernel, scolapasta, EFHW, SpaceAnemone

So, for me its one of the last three. Space seems the least likely.

MiX, why scola over EFHW?

OK, I was considering switching my vote to Robz (as I do think he could still be scum), but I've seen this Didds before, and it's been scum Didds. Asking others to get create the justification for her vote.

Didds, Robz, and 1 more partner, maybe? I still think there could be a potential 4th, i.e. a Cylon who will convert at some point to from town to scum). I'm also still waiting for any one who's willing to tell us they're the supposed 2nd cylon tester to corroborate that part of MiX's claim, because maybe we got lucky and the there were only two human aligned cylons in Awaclus and swowl (both of whom we've had some reason to believe were Cylons)

[WestCoastDidds]

Interesting, Scola, you are doing with EFHW exactly what you accused me of.

[scolapasta]

Interesting, Scola, you are doing with EFHW exactly what you accused me of.

What is it that I'm doing?

[ashersky]

I agree that if there is anyone else who had control of the cylon tester, they should claim now.

If they don't, fairly safe assumption that either MiX is lying or the hidden person is not town.

[MiX]

Hi!

I am completely swamped at work, so this is based on skimming...

So, Mix says he has a result that one of these folks is cylon-aligned?
Jack Rudd (6): MiX, WestCoastDidds, A Drowned Kernel, scolapasta, EFHW, SpaceAnemone

So, for me its one of the last three. Space seems the least likely.

MiX, why scola over EFHW?

More like, why scola over you? I feel like the kills have been revolving around scola. Awaclus was fighting him, and Swowl was saying a bunch of things related to scola that I can't remember right now. I don't really have a reason other than that.

I'm gaius baltar, and you have killed the person that God was personally controlling to make humans win. we are going to lose very horribly.

ADK's win condition is a secret.

Any questions?

What did  you mean here? How is God controlling you?

Flavor, you can read in the wiki Gaius Baltar's whole character arc, it's spoilers and not very relevant I think. It's about Baltar thinking God is somehow affecting him through Head Six or something (and Head Six is a voice he hears that resembles a cylon he got intimate with that was kinda the whole reason the attack on the colonies worked). I know more but it's spoilers, really just read it.

MiX, could you give us a run down in order of the tidbits of info you've been receiving as part of your power?

N1 I learned that it's possible a human-aligned player can become cylon-aligned.

N2 I learned what happened if a military became president and didn't revoke their powers.

N3 I learned that there's at least 1 cylon-aligned player in the Jack wagon.

I read ADK's post a couple of times and I confirm everything they're saying.

-I'm in a Viper Pilot neighborhood with didds, LL, and swowl, that's the QT ash is referring to. swowl claimed on N2 in that neighborhood that he was also in a neighborhood with another player, whose identity he didn't disclose, who he said he was townreading. I'm guessing this is ash, which makes ash a pretty unlikely scum candidate, since he wouldn't want to kill the person who was giving him information

Swowl was in a QT N3 with Space, and N2 with who you presume is ash...so who were they linked with N1?

Why presume it was ash?

That's what ADK said, not me.

re: Jack wagon, I'm thinking Didds or scola. It feels to me that Didds had too many reasons for the precipitous vote.
On the MiX wagon, I'm thinking Jack or Robz.

I agree with you.

[Dylan32]

This is a little bit random, but I’m going to kind of claim one of my powers because it could be helpful. I could ascertain whether or not ADK’s wincon is compatible with town’s. It’s a one shot power, and it’s not limited to just that question, but the answer can’t be tampered with, so I would know it’s truthful. If he can win with town, we should definitely try to find scum today instead of that, but if he’s 3rd party that straight up can’t win with town, it’s probably not a bad idea to eliminate him earlier rather than later.

I’ll wait for opinions before actually taking an action. Also, my understanding is that I can use it  any time during the game as opposed to at night, so if I’m not mistaken we can know that before EOD.

[faust]

Vote Count 4.2

Jack Rudd (1): WestCoastDidds
scolapasta (1): MiX
WestCoastDidds (2): scolapasta, LaLight
Robz888 (3): Jack Rudd, A Drowned Kernel, SpaceAnemone
A Drowned Kernel (1): Robz888

Not Voting (3): EFHW, Dylan32, ashersky

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to exile. Day 4 ends April 21, 2021, 08:30:00 am.

[A Drowned Kernel]

This is a little bit random, but I’m going to kind of claim one of my powers because it could be helpful. I could ascertain whether or not ADK’s wincon is compatible with town’s. It’s a one shot power, and it’s not limited to just that question, but the answer can’t be tampered with, so I would know it’s truthful. If he can win with town, we should definitely try to find scum today instead of that, but if he’s 3rd party that straight up can’t win with town, it’s probably not a bad idea to eliminate him earlier rather than later.

I’ll wait for opinions before actually taking an action. Also, my understanding is that I can use it  any time during the game as opposed to at night, so if I’m not mistaken we can know that before EOD.

If your power can really be used for that, then I'm in favor of it being used for it

[EFHW]

This is a little bit random, but I’m going to kind of claim one of my powers because it could be helpful. I could ascertain whether or not ADK’s wincon is compatible with town’s. It’s a one shot power, and it’s not limited to just that question, but the answer can’t be tampered with, so I would know it’s truthful. If he can win with town, we should definitely try to find scum today instead of that, but if he’s 3rd party that straight up can’t win with town, it’s probably not a bad idea to eliminate him earlier rather than later.

I’ll wait for opinions before actually taking an action. Also, my understanding is that I can use it  any time during the game as opposed to at night, so if I’m not mistaken we can know that before EOD.

If your power can really be used for that, then I'm in favor of it being used for it

This power could rule out serial killer, but ADK being something like a survivor isn't all that comforting. They could still side against town at any moment. We know they are not exclusively town-aligned, or they wouldn't be a third party. So it's just ruling out their being completely evil. People with those roles don't tend to want as much attention as ADK has drawn on themself.

It would help to hear more about your power if you can do it without quoting.

[SpaceAnemone]

This is a little bit random, but I’m going to kind of claim one of my powers because it could be helpful. I could ascertain whether or not ADK’s wincon is compatible with town’s. It’s a one shot power, and it’s not limited to just that question, but the answer can’t be tampered with, so I would know it’s truthful. If he can win with town, we should definitely try to find scum today instead of that, but if he’s 3rd party that straight up can’t win with town, it’s probably not a bad idea to eliminate him earlier rather than later.

I’ll wait for opinions before actually taking an action. Also, my understanding is that I can use it  any time during the game as opposed to at night, so if I’m not mistaken we can know that before EOD.

If your power can really be used for that, then I'm in favor of it being used for it

Hmm.. I'm not so sure that's optimal if the shot really can just take any player and say whether their wincon is compatible with town's.

We already have a lot of information on ADK's interactions. If ADK flips as something that isn't compatible with our town wincon, then we can be very suspicious of the players who've exhibited strong levels of trust in ADK, like MiX and Didds. In terms of webs of trust and who's scum conditional on our reads of other people, I think ADK already has a lot of evidence, and as people who've interacted with ADK flip, we'll naturally build up a better picture of how much to trust them.

Compare that to someone like Jack or Robz, about whom we know absolutely nothing, have no reads, and no interactions to speak of. Surely it's better to use a shot on Robz, because that way we keep our vague partial info on ADK, get full alignment reassurance on Robz, and end up with more information than if we only used the shot to top up that partial info on ADK.

Also, on the off-chance this is a scum!Dylan plan to cement some trust in scum!ADK, I think it's advantageous for town not to go along with the plan unchallenged.

PPE 1: EFHW, yes, I agree with that too, though I also think that in general it's better if we're hunting cylon-aligned players than third parties, especially now the third party has been outed.

[SpaceAnemone]

Hi!

I am completely swamped at work, so this is based on skimming...

So, Mix says he has a result that one of these folks is cylon-aligned?
Jack Rudd (6): MiX, WestCoastDidds, A Drowned Kernel, scolapasta, EFHW, SpaceAnemone

So, for me its one of the last three. Space seems the least likely.

MiX, why scola over EFHW?

Besides me, I think ADK is the least likely to be cylon-aligned, being a claimed 3rd party both by their own admission and by MiX's claim. And I think I'd pointed out a while ago in-thread that MiX's choice of language gave away that he knew something about third-party alignment, so that much tracks. Though I still think it's worth considering that MiX himself is the 3p, at least a little bit. It makes so much sense with the character of Baltar and the jury of peers mechanic to help him survive an exile attempt. If MiX is 3p, would he give us the "at least one cylon-aligned person on-wagon" info, though?

Personally, I'm not voting for Scola. I know he's suspicious of me for appearing to white-knighting him or whatever, but honestly he just says stuff I agree with most of the time, and I have to assume that a scum player wouldn't say the same things so naturally. Meanwhile, I have much less to agree with from either you (Didds) or EFHW. [I started writing this post a few hours ago, before making the post where I just agreed with EFHW...]

It's also worth noting that "at least one on-wagon cylon-aligned player" could mean "exactly one on-wagon cylon-aligned player", and there were six people on-wagon and six off-wagon. If we expect there to be three cylon-aligned players (I don't know if this is accurate; the balance probably depends what other alignments and switching mechanics faust built into the game), then there could easily still be a stronger chance of hitting a cylon-aligned player if we look off-wagon than if we look on it.

[SpaceAnemone]

I'm gaius baltar, and you have killed the person that God was personally controlling to make humans win. we are going to lose very horribly.

ADK's win condition is a secret.

Any questions?

What did  you mean here? How is God controlling you?

Flavor, you can read in the wiki Gaius Baltar's whole character arc, it's spoilers and not very relevant I think. It's about Baltar thinking God is somehow affecting him through Head Six or something (and Head Six is a voice he hears that resembles a cylon he got intimate with that was kinda the whole reason the attack on the colonies worked). I know more but it's spoilers, really just read it.

Your answer is vague, and probably missing the point. Do you mean that your character info in the game explicitly talks about being controlled by a deity, or are you just going off what you've read about BSG and assuming that the character of Baltar was controlled by god, and then just being dramatic about your exile?

In terms of the show, I think Baltar's status is deliberately never made clear: maybe he believes that his visions of one of the cylon model sixes are god-sent, but maybe he's just so focused on his own self-preservation that he'll say or do anything to put himself first.

[MiX]

I was being dramatic. I don't see how my own conclusions of who Gaius Baltar is are relevant to the game (although I'd love to talk about it if I ever end up watching the show).

[MiX]

This is a little bit random, but I’m going to kind of claim one of my powers because it could be helpful. I could ascertain whether or not ADK’s wincon is compatible with town’s. It’s a one shot power, and it’s not limited to just that question, but the answer can’t be tampered with, so I would know it’s truthful. If he can win with town, we should definitely try to find scum today instead of that, but if he’s 3rd party that straight up can’t win with town, it’s probably not a bad idea to eliminate him earlier rather than later.

I’ll wait for opinions before actually taking an action. Also, my understanding is that I can use it  any time during the game as opposed to at night, so if I’m not mistaken we can know that before EOD.

Can you pick anyone? That sounds like something I'd use as soon as possible.

[SpaceAnemone]

I was being dramatic. I don't see how my own conclusions of who Gaius Baltar is are relevant to the game (although I'd love to talk about it if I ever end up watching the show).

Okay, so I think all EFHW was looking for in her question was the response that you were being dramatic, and that there's no game-mechanic relating to you being some kind of Chosen One. It's quite an odd reading of Baltar, so I think it's entirely reasonable for someone to ask what your statement meant.

As for what your reading of your character tells us, I think there's probably something there, if I knew how to interpret it according to which parts of a complex character you seem to have latched on to. My difficulty right now is just that I don't know whether your focus on the "God's chosen one" stuff means you honestly think that because you're town!Baltar then you assume he must be good at the core and so take the most forgiving reading possible on him, or whether you've drawn scum!Baltar (or 3p!Baltar), and have read all the background and carefully filed anything you thought you could use to make it sound like you're a good guy after all.

For anyone else who doesn't know the show, Baltar sided with the cylons against humans several times for his own interests. If I'd made a list ahead of time of characters most likely to be human but working on the side of the cylons, Baltar would be at the top. (Though as I said before, Baltar makes plenty of sense as a 3p, since he doesn't really have any loyalties beyond himself).

[scolapasta]

More like, why scola over you? I feel like the kills have been revolving around scola. Awaclus was fighting him, and Swowl was saying a bunch of things related to scola that I can't remember right now. I don't really have a reason other than that.

I did notice this as well. My best guess is it's scum having read over my last game and seeing that I did something similar as scum in the end game there, in order to try to make me an easy brigging target.

N1 I learned that it's possible a human-aligned player can become cylon-aligned.

N2 I learned what happened if a military became president and didn't revoke their powers.

N3 I learned that there's at least 1 cylon-aligned player in the Jack wagon.

Is it possible that a Survivor MiX lies about one (or more) of these? I doubt it, but I could see him doing that in order to cover for something he'd rather not share.

• first one does feels a little sketchy in that he learned that after Awaclus basically confirmed this for us when telling us he was given a choice to switch. Second one would be a more risky lie as we could verify (but only
• 2nd one is only verifiable once MiX is brigged or incapacitated so why would he care? That said, he'd have had to come up with it and it does seem a reasonable actual design
• 3rd one could be used to get us down the path of brigging people from that wagon

This is a little bit random, but I’m going to kind of claim one of my powers because it could be helpful. I could ascertain whether or not ADK’s wincon is compatible with town’s. It’s a one shot power, and it’s not limited to just that question, but the answer can’t be tampered with, so I would know it’s truthful. If he can win with town, we should definitely try to find scum today instead of that, but if he’s 3rd party that straight up can’t win with town, it’s probably not a bad idea to eliminate him earlier rather than later.

I’ll wait for opinions before actually taking an action. Also, my understanding is that I can use it  any time during the game as opposed to at night, so if I’m not mistaken we can know that before EOD.

My initial thought when I read this was that this was a great idea, but others had some good arguments a little later that have put me in a the on the fence camp. Can you give us more detail on what you can (or cannot) ask?

Personally, I'm not voting for Scola. I know he's suspicious of me for appearing to white-knighting him or whatever, but honestly he just says stuff I agree with most of the time, and I have to assume that a scum player wouldn't say the same things so naturally. Meanwhile, I have much less to agree with from either you (Didds) or EFHW. [I started writing this post a few hours ago, before making the post where I just agreed with EFHW...]

It's also worth noting that "at least one on-wagon cylon-aligned player" could mean "exactly one on-wagon cylon-aligned player", and there were six people on-wagon and six off-wagon. If we expect there to be three cylon-aligned players (I don't know if this is accurate; the balance probably depends what other alignments and switching mechanics faust built into the game), then there could easily still be a stronger chance of hitting a cylon-aligned player if we look off-wagon than if we look on it.

Is the term white-knighting or buddying? (or either) Regardless, I think that less now. I don't think I've ever been white knighted in a game before, but my gut is that at some point one would choose at least some things to disagree with, and maybe more important, bring attention to that. Occam's razor makes me think that we're just reading this game in a similar fashion.

Add to that that my current thought scum team is WCD, Robz, +1; I don' think you quite fit there as the third.

And continuing or agreement (ow it's my turn), I do like the idea of looking off wagon. We know swowl was human aligned so, really it's 6 and 5, and if you just look at the other wagon, 6 and 4. I'm willing to switch my vote to Robz, but I won't immediately, as I want to check the vote count.

[MiX]

I was being dramatic. I don't see how my own conclusions of who Gaius Baltar is are relevant to the game (although I'd love to talk about it if I ever end up watching the show).

Okay, so I think all EFHW was looking for in her question was the response that you were being dramatic, and that there's no game-mechanic relating to you being some kind of Chosen One. It's quite an odd reading of Baltar, so I think it's entirely reasonable for someone to ask what your statement meant.

As for what your reading of your character tells us, I think there's probably something there, if I knew how to interpret it according to which parts of a complex character you seem to have latched on to. My difficulty right now is just that I don't know whether your focus on the "God's chosen one" stuff means you honestly think that because you're town!Baltar then you assume he must be good at the core and so take the most forgiving reading possible on him, or whether you've drawn scum!Baltar (or 3p!Baltar), and have read all the background and carefully filed anything you thought you could use to make it sound like you're a good guy after all.

For anyone else who doesn't know the show, Baltar sided with the cylons against humans several times for his own interests. If I'd made a list ahead of time of characters most likely to be human but working on the side of the cylons, Baltar would be at the top. (Though as I said before, Baltar makes plenty of sense as a 3p, since he doesn't really have any loyalties beyond himself).

Have I become that predictable, to the point of how I read my flavor character is alignment indicative...? Man, now I need to start doing this as scum. Add that to the list of things town!me has done to make scum play as annoying as possible.

Yes, I think I read Baltar as someone with good intentions because I rolled town. But I don't think Baltar would ever be cylon-aligned, from what I read on the wiki: only unwillingly (and probably unknowingly too).

The more you say how you're using this to read me, the more scum!me will simply say the towniest thing possible though, I think you should just look at what I said in twilight and come to whatever conclusions that give you.

[WestCoastDidds]

I’m happy for dylan to test me if we want to start on the Jack wagon

[EFHW]

Like someone else already said, maybe Space, it seems weird to me that Dylan thought ADK would be the best use of his power. Hoping we'll hear back from him soon.

[LaLight]

i hope we'll exile today

[ashersky]

Like someone else already said, maybe Space, it seems weird to me that Dylan thought ADK would be the best use of his power. Hoping we'll hear back from him soon.

It's only weird because we don't know what the power is.  If it is 3rd party specific, well, it's not weird at all to think ADK would be the best target.

[EFHW]

Since our characters' alignments are expected to change over the course of the games, we can't assume that flavor represents alignment.  Otherwise, Baltar would absolutely be an obvious 3rd party. But come to think of it, MiX would likely have been given a safeclaim for situations such as this one.

[EFHW]

Like someone else already said, maybe Space, it seems weird to me that Dylan thought ADK would be the best use of his power. Hoping we'll hear back from him soon.

It's only weird because we don't know what the power is.  If it is 3rd party specific, well, it's not weird at all to think ADK would be the best target.

But the chances of knowing someone is 3rd party seem small, and guessing is no good with a 1 shot power.

[MiX]

Since our characters' alignments are expected to change over the course of the games, we can't assume that flavor represents alignment.  Otherwise, Baltar would absolutely be an obvious 3rd party. But come to think of it, MiX would likely have been given a safeclaim for situations such as this one.

For Season 1, flavor is tied to alignment, and people have fakeclaims. This info is in the legacy thread where faust first proposed this game.

Like someone else already said, maybe Space, it seems weird to me that Dylan thought ADK would be the best use of his power. Hoping we'll hear back from him soon.

It's only weird because we don't know what the power is.  If it is 3rd party specific, well, it's not weird at all to think ADK would be the best target.

But the chances of knowing someone is 3rd party seem small, and guessing is no good with a 1 shot power.

Chances of no one claiming third-party ever are low enough for such a power to exist.

[EFHW]

faust, can you confirm that this aspect of the setup is still true? Meaning that in this game alignment is consistent with flavor and that safeclaims have been made available.

[MiX]

Can we massclaim? I'm slowly losing my sanity this game, and I doubt I'm the only one.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Can we massclaim? I'm slowly losing my sanity this game, and I doubt I'm the only one.

Seconded

[Robz888]

I'm also fine with massclaim.

[MiX]

I'm also fine with massclaim.

You can start us off!


Whatever happened to

3. As a general rule you should aim for one post every 12 hours, minimum, to keep the game moving.

?

[Robz888]

Okay. I have two night actions: I can find out whether someone is civilian or military, and I can also protect someone from a killing action.

[SpaceAnemone]

I don't agree with mass-claiming yet, for two main reasons:

1. We're definitely not as far through this game as we would expect to be in terms of the number of nights and the number of posts. We're maybe in a D3 sort of scenario, and sure, that's when in a normal game we might start to consider claims, but with all the extra mechanics, I think this game already has lots of info that we can work our way through (e.g. the discussion that we started around Dylan's claimed power) before we have to resort to that.

2. The push for claims is being let by a small subset of the game, one of whom is claimed non-town, so I think it at least needs more discussion before people go ahead and claim.

I'm fine scum-reading Robz a bit more for just going along with it. He's either utterly disengaged town, or he's scum and this is a scum-driven ploy to move us away from a scenario where we have more discussion around using Dylan's supposed power on Robz instead of on ADK. I'm also not sure what to make of the fact that Robz is claiming powers without claiming a character name, when my understanding of full-claiming was definitely that the role name would be entirely relevant to claim.

[MiX]

I don't agree with mass-claiming yet, for two main reasons:

1. We're definitely not as far through this game as we would expect to be in terms of the number of nights and the number of posts. We're maybe in a D3 sort of scenario, and sure, that's when in a normal game we might start to consider claims, but with all the extra mechanics, I think this game already has lots of info that we can work our way through (e.g. the discussion that we started around Dylan's claimed power) before we have to resort to that.

2. The push for claims is being let by a small subset of the game, one of whom is claimed non-town, so I think it at least needs more discussion before people go ahead and claim.

I'm fine scum-reading Robz a bit more for just going along with it. He's either utterly disengaged town, or he's scum and this is a scum-driven ploy to move us away from a scenario where we have more discussion around using Dylan's supposed power on Robz instead of on ADK. I'm also not sure what to make of the fact that Robz is claiming powers without claiming a character name, when my understanding of full-claiming was definitely that the role name would be entirely relevant to claim.

Ah yes, discussion, that thing town's been doing this game.

It's day 4. We either have already lost, or someone out there has something akin to a result.

The game is a small subset of the game: there's too many people that aren't active for a town consensus to work. But I'm not going to wait for dylan to come back, it's just not reliable enough: if we are waiting for people to talk before doing things, we will end the day doing nothing, just like we did D1 and D2.

I, too, am scumreading Robz for the no details his claim has, and how he just went ahead and did it.

[LaLight]

Okay. I have two night actions: I can find out whether someone is civilian or military, and I can also protect someone from a killing action.

did you protect me?

[Dylan32]

Sorry, people make good points about not using my ability on ADK. I will engage more before bed tonight, but just wanted you to know I am still paying attention and haven't forgotten about this.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Okay. I have two night actions: I can find out whether someone is civilian or military, and I can also protect someone from a killing action.

This is like the most generic claim ever. What character are you supposed to be?

[scolapasta]

Interesting, Scola, you are doing with EFHW exactly what you accused me of.

What is it that I'm doing?

I'm still waiting for an answer for this. (note, I'm aware that WCD has IRL stuff going on, so it's not meant as a nag, but more of as a reminder)

[scolapasta]

Okay. I have two night actions: I can find out whether someone is civilian or military, and I can also protect someone from a killing action.

did you protect me?

If he had though, would that make Swowl's claim false? Why would he make up having protected you? (it would explain though your seeing protected but not blocking that night)

[scolapasta]

Okay. I have two night actions: I can find out whether someone is civilian or military, and I can also protect someone from a killing action.

This is like the most generic claim ever. What character are you supposed to be?

I agree. Robz, why should we not vote for you?

Related, but separate, ADK, are you willing to reveal your character name?

[A Drowned Kernel]

Okay. I have two night actions: I can find out whether someone is civilian or military, and I can also protect someone from a killing action.

This is like the most generic claim ever. What character are you supposed to be?

I agree. Robz, why should we not vote for you?

Related, but separate, ADK, are you willing to reveal your character name?

Yes. I'm Lee Adama

[scolapasta]

Okay. I have two night actions: I can find out whether someone is civilian or military, and I can also protect someone from a killing action.

This is like the most generic claim ever. What character are you supposed to be?

I agree. Robz, why should we not vote for you?

Related, but separate, ADK, are you willing to reveal your character name?

Yes. I'm Lee Adama

That is not what I expected, flavor wise. Hmmm...

[EFHW]

While it does seem early for massclaiming, the game needs jump-starting so I am in favor.

[EFHW]

Is the viper QT during the day or just at night? If any group has daychat, that could explain the infrequent posting, though that's not my excuse.

[ashersky]

Mass claim is fine, I don't think it moves the needle without a ton of info coming out.

Like, Robz's claim is meh at most.

I think we'll have just as much luck with random exiles, unless someone claims results.

[Dylan32]

Ok, a little bit more detail about my power. I can basically come up with a yes no question in my QT and then get a truthful answer. So what if we did something like any of the set {x y z} (cylon-aligned/not human-aligned)? (parenthetical options for if you want to filter out 3rd party or include them in the results)

I could probably ask something setup related too if there was a more helpful bit of info we could come up with, but I feel like using it as a weird cop might be most directly helpful right now. That would at least give us some results to work with right now since no one else has rushed forwards with anything yet.

[faust]

Vote Count 4.3

Jack Rudd (1): WestCoastDidds
scolapasta (1): MiX
WestCoastDidds (2): scolapasta, LaLight
Robz888 (3): Jack Rudd, A Drowned Kernel, SpaceAnemone
A Drowned Kernel (1): Robz888

Not Voting (3): EFHW, Dylan32, ashersky

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to exile. Day 4 ends April 21, 2021, 08:30:00 am.

faust, can you confirm that this aspect of the setup is still true? Meaning that in this game alignment is consistent with flavor and that safeclaims have been made available.

This question is too vague for me to give any sort of answer. What is written in the setup post clearly still holds true.

[faust]

The following executive order has been signed:

Curfew
For any action a player takes the following Night, they will take one fewer vote to exile on the Day after.

[LaLight]

vote: MiX, obviously. Curfew is a gambit

[LaLight]

MiX/WCD/Space? MiX/WCD/Jack?

[MiX]

vote: MiX, obviously. Curfew is a gambit

That was not intentional. Turns out trying to make town decide on an order just means they will do nothing.

But hey, it's what ash wanted!

[MiX]

I don't care about this game anymore. I did for a brief moment when I realized I was still alive. I don't anymore, town does not give a fuck about anything and this game is too slow for anyone to agree on anything.

Vote: Robz, X-2

[MiX]

While it does seem early for massclaiming, the game needs jump-starting so I am in favor.

Claim then! What are you waiting for?

[MiX]

Ok, a little bit more detail about my power. I can basically come up with a yes no question in my QT and then get a truthful answer. So what if we did something like any of the set {x y z} (cylon-aligned/not human-aligned)? (parenthetical options for if you want to filter out 3rd party or include them in the results)

I could probably ask something setup related too if there was a more helpful bit of info we could come up with, but I feel like using it as a weird cop might be most directly helpful right now. That would at least give us some results to work with right now since no one else has rushed forwards with anything yet.

Ask if your top scumread is cylon-aligned. Ask if at least 1 of your 2 top scumreads are cylon-aligned. Ask if there's at least 2 cylon-aligned players in my D3 wagon (by explicitly naming people). Ask if there's at least 2 cylon-aligned players in the Jack D3 wagon. Ask if Jack is cylon-aligned.

[WestCoastDidds]

Is the viper QT during the day or just at night? If any group has daychat, that could explain the infrequent posting, though that's not my excuse.

Night only

[WestCoastDidds]

The POE on my character is now easy... ADK is Lee, LL is Helo, Swowl was Boomer.  I’m obviously Kara Thrace.

[WestCoastDidds]

Ok, a little bit more detail about my power. I can basically come up with a yes no question in my QT and then get a truthful answer. So what if we did something like any of the set {x y z} (cylon-aligned/not human-aligned)? (parenthetical options for if you want to filter out 3rd party or include them in the results)

I could probably ask something setup related too if there was a more helpful bit of info we could come up with, but I feel like using it as a weird cop might be most directly helpful right now. That would at least give us some results to work with right now since no one else has rushed forwards with anything yet.

Ask if your top scumread is cylon-aligned. Ask if at least 1 of your 2 top scumreads are cylon-aligned. Ask if there's at least 2 cylon-aligned players in my D3 wagon (by explicitly naming people). Ask if there's at least 2 cylon-aligned players in the Jack D3 wagon. Ask if Jack is cylon-aligned.

Or are any of the viper pilots cylon-aligned? If so, y’all could off us one by one.

[WestCoastDidds]

Or was any member of the jury cylon-aligned?

[scolapasta]

vote: MiX, obviously. Curfew is a gambit

That was not intentional. Turns out trying to make town decide on an order just means they will do nothing.

But hey, it's what ash wanted!

How do you blame this on town? I get that we didn't opine much on it* (or anything really), but it's still your call to set the oder before deadline. "The buck stops here", no?

* frankly I didn't expect for you to really even care about our opinions, but it was good to know what you claim the options are, at least.

[scolapasta]

MiX/WCD/Space? MiX/WCD/Jack?

Or are any of the viper pilots cylon-aligned? If so, y’all could off us one by one.

Or was any member of the jury cylon-aligned?

These all seem like good options to me. It seems like 3 is the magic number, as 2 feels too limited, and 4 doesn't really narrow things down as much. I'm also fine if you want to throw me in the pool of 3.

(I am still wondering if there's something else better than Cop to use this for, but I haven't thought of anything yet - the best I've got is if flavor corresponds to alignment*, but faust didn't seem willing to answer that in the main thread so I'd be worried we wouldn't get a useful answer here either)

* because if it does, I don't think ADK would be 3rd party; either MiX or WCD or both would

[WestCoastDidds]

I agree that there is the right number. If we choose wisely we get three ICs. If we gets yes, then we have the exile pool.

And I think the question should be “is there at least one” because not knowing how many there are if it’s yes is still a good a pretty good position.

[Robz888]

I'm Cally. One of my least favorite characters!

[MiX]

I'm Cally. One of my least favorite characters!

The wiki entry for her is...more than incomplete. Is that reason enough to kill you?

What were your targets? What were your results?

[EFHW]

While it does seem early for massclaiming, the game needs jump-starting so I am in favor.

Claim then! What are you waiting for?

Usually we set an order. But I'm fine with claiming. I'm Dee and I set up the QT's between LL and scola and Space and Swowl. I also have the two-shot option to make a player unable to post in their QT's for a night and a day.

[MiX]

While it does seem early for massclaiming, the game needs jump-starting so I am in favor.

Claim then! What are you waiting for?

Usually we set an order. But I'm fine with claiming. I'm Dee and I set up the QT's between LL and scola and Space and Swowl. I also have the two-shot option to make a player unable to post in their QT's for a night and a day.

...Who? Can you give me a full name?

There's been 3 night, why have you setup only 2 QTs?

[Jack Rudd]

While it does seem early for massclaiming, the game needs jump-starting so I am in favor.

Claim then! What are you waiting for?

Usually we set an order. But I'm fine with claiming. I'm Dee and I set up the QT's between LL and scola and Space and Swowl. I also have the two-shot option to make a player unable to post in their QT's for a night and a day.

...Who? Can you give me a full name?

There's been 3 night, why have you setup only 2 QTs?

Dee = Anastasia Dualla.

I'm Saul Tigh.

[scolapasta]

I'm Cally. One of my least favorite characters!

Your powers don't really seem related to your character. That and you ignored by why shouldn't I vote for you question.

Vote: Robz

[scolapasta]

While it does seem early for massclaiming, the game needs jump-starting so I am in favor.

Claim then! What are you waiting for?

Usually we set an order. But I'm fine with claiming. I'm Dee and I set up the QT's between LL and scola and Space and Swowl. I also have the two-shot option to make a player unable to post in their QT's for a night and a day.

Well, your powers do fit your role, as Dee was a communications officer. That said, I could also see these as scum powers, since we know that there's a Viper QT. And if you're going to make up a false claim, Dee is a relatively minor enough character and I think all the other military characters have claimed. So it's "safe".

[scolapasta]

I'm Cally. One of my least favorite characters!

Your powers don't really seem related to your character. That and you ignored by why shouldn't I vote for you question.

Vote: Robz

Oh wait, just read back and saw MiX claimed his vote was X-2. Not quite sure we're read for X-1 yet, as I think we want Dylan to ask his question (I forget did you say if this was a day or night power). If it's night, I'll probably throw my vote back on. But for now:

Unvote

[SpaceAnemone]

I'm Cally. One of my least favorite characters!

Your powers don't really seem related to your character. That and you ignored by why shouldn't I vote for you question.

Vote: Robz

Was that X-1?

I don't think we should allow a hammer before thefull set of claiming -- it would be too easy to scum to hammer and have an extra night phase to work on their fakeclaims.

Unvote

PPE 1

[SpaceAnemone]

Okay, two unvotes might not have been necessary. Sorry. Will probably reinstate my vote once I've posted some other thoughts.

[scolapasta]

Okay, two unvotes might not have been necessary. Sorry. Will probably reinstate my vote once I've posted some other thoughts.

Yeah, I only noticed after I went back to read and see if there was anything else that had come in since my last post. Luckily it was at the top of this page or I may not have seen it. (though, you also got here in time)

[SpaceAnemone]

And if you're going to make up a false claim, Dee is a relatively minor enough character and I think all the other military characters have claimed. So it's "safe".

She's at least major enough to be a playable character in the board game, while Billy, whom we've seen as a flipped character in this game, isn't a playable character, at least in any of the expansions I've played.

[SpaceAnemone]

Ok, a little bit more detail about my power. I can basically come up with a yes no question in my QT and then get a truthful answer. So what if we did something like any of the set {x y z} (cylon-aligned/not human-aligned)? (parenthetical options for if you want to filter out 3rd party or include them in the results)

I could probably ask something setup related too if there was a more helpful bit of info we could come up with, but I feel like using it as a weird cop might be most directly helpful right now. That would at least give us some results to work with right now since no one else has rushed forwards with anything yet.

I like this, though we should consider whether it's better information if we ask whether there's an even number of cylon-aligned players in a given group (where zero counts as even), rather than just if there's one or more. If we make the group contain the top three or four universally-agreed (ish) scumreads, that might be quite useful information as the game gets smaller. PoE for town in that group would also be useful, which is why I'm erring on thinking the group might be better off being a little more than just the top one or two scumreads. Does anyone else have thoughts on that?

[MiX]

Ok, a little bit more detail about my power. I can basically come up with a yes no question in my QT and then get a truthful answer. So what if we did something like any of the set {x y z} (cylon-aligned/not human-aligned)? (parenthetical options for if you want to filter out 3rd party or include them in the results)

I could probably ask something setup related too if there was a more helpful bit of info we could come up with, but I feel like using it as a weird cop might be most directly helpful right now. That would at least give us some results to work with right now since no one else has rushed forwards with anything yet.

I like this, though we should consider whether it's better information if we ask whether there's an even number of cylon-aligned players in a given group (where zero counts as even), rather than just if there's one or more. If we make the group contain the top three or four universally-agreed (ish) scumreads, that might be quite useful information as the game gets smaller. PoE for town in that group would also be useful, which is why I'm erring on thinking the group might be better off being a little more than just the top one or two scumreads. Does anyone else have thoughts on that?

Even seems counterproductive for using information to guide our actions: If we learn a "yes" on even, do we exile in that group? Chances are there's no scum, but there could be two...it just makes things complicated. And given my result, I think if we crossreference 2 groups of people that can have scum, we get a pretty good pool to exile in.

[SpaceAnemone]

While it does seem early for massclaiming, the game needs jump-starting so I am in favor.

Claim then! What are you waiting for?

Usually we set an order. But I'm fine with claiming. I'm Dee and I set up the QT's between LL and scola and Space and Swowl. I also have the two-shot option to make a player unable to post in their QT's for a night and a day.

...Who? Can you give me a full name?

There's been 3 night, why have you setup only 2 QTs?

Dee = Anastasia Dualla.

I'm Saul Tigh.

You're also a player who's put very little content into the game, so if we're going for all-out power claiming, I think you should be high in the priority list, unless you want to volunteer some more now?

I recall that previously I've argued for claiming systems where we do things in two phase (e.g. a round of names and then a round of powers), but can anyone else recall why that's sometimes a good thing to do? I honestly can't remember right now, but I'm pretty sure I've thought previously that it's a better way of unfolding the information into the thread :-/

[SpaceAnemone]

I like this, though we should consider whether it's better information if we ask whether there's an even number of cylon-aligned players in a given group (where zero counts as even), rather than just if there's one or more. If we make the group contain the top three or four universally-agreed (ish) scumreads, that might be quite useful information as the game gets smaller. PoE for town in that group would also be useful, which is why I'm erring on thinking the group might be better off being a little more than just the top one or two scumreads. Does anyone else have thoughts on that?

Even seems counterproductive for using information to guide our actions: If we learn a "yes" on even, do we exile in that group? Chances are there's no scum, but there could be two...it just makes things complicated. And given my result, I think if we crossreference 2 groups of people that can have scum, we get a pretty good pool to exile in.

I think key is to use our information-gathering as wisely as possible while not trusting any one result, since most of us don't know whether your result or Dylan's can be trusted unless we see a town flip from you. Also, while the parity idea may not work ideally for a single day, I think it's better information for later in the game than the "at least one in X" information, especially if the group we're proposing to select includes scumreads several scumreads, and we have an okay prior belief that the number of cylon-aligned players overall is probably 2-3.

For instance, say we suggest the 5 scummiest people out of the 11 currently alive for the "is there an even number in X" question, and we get a no, it's most likely that there are 2 scum to find there, rather than zero or four. Similarly, if we get an odd number, we think there's probably just one, but with an option to revise the estimate later on, by which time if there really were three scum there, they've had to play a super-tight game full of extra constraints to try to stay hidden in a shrinking barrel of possibilities and not get exiled for fear of outing the existence of the last one.

One possible interesting idea would be to do something deliberate with the overlap between the tested set and the set from the Jack wagon. I'm not quite sure what, but the obvious options are either have them all in, all out, or split the group cleanly in two. I feel like there's an information-theory entropy question somewhere here. Anyone else feeling like that? I can't remember whether there are any other maths/information types around in this game, though the usual suspects of Calamitas, faust and gkrieg are sadly absent from the player side of the list!

[Jack Rudd]

I've got a rather uninteresting self-protective power. Maybe all the alcohol in my bloodstream serves to preserve me, or something.

[MiX]

One possible interesting idea would be to do something deliberate with the overlap between the tested set and the set from the Jack wagon. I'm not quite sure what, but the obvious options are either have them all in, all out, or split the group cleanly in two. I feel like there's an information-theory entropy question somewhere here. Anyone else feeling like that? I can't remember whether there are any other maths/information types around in this game, though the usual suspects of Calamitas, faust and gkrieg are sadly absent from the player side of the list!

I'm afraid I think you're stuck with me as the maths guy (math dude, if you will). Information is great, but I approach the game from a more snowball approach: if we get 1 scum flip, the game should open up much more than the extra information a more detailed question gives. And I also think having information that we can act on (I don't know if there's a better term for this).

If there's 3 scum in the "odd scum" group, I think they just win: we exile in that group, they redirect the exile to the scummiest of them, they flip scum, the other 2 are basically shielded for a while, and then they can exile town until it's too late. And if there's 2 (and we get a result of no, which means there's an even amount) we just kinda do the same thing: we go around on the other group trying to find the 1 scum, and when we do we might not stop, then the other 2 scum win. Yes, it's much better information in XiLo, and when there's only 1 scum alive, but getting there seems like the hard part.

This is why I didn't really suggest groups of 3 for "at least 1 scum" questions or why I suggested "at least 2 scum" in groups of 5: splitting town like that, even if it seems useless later on as it's less hard information, it's more directional, and should give us more scum flips. Then interactions and town being able to read correctly should win us the game.

[SpaceAnemone]

I approach the game from a more snowball approach: if we get 1 scum flip, the game should open up much more than the extra information a more detailed question gives. And I also think having information that we can act on (I don't know if there's a better term for this).

That depends on the scum that flips, and the interactions they've had. I think flipping Jack at this point is no big worry for hypothetical!scum!Jack's scumbuddies, but if ADK flips cylon-aligned then people who've been following and protecting them look quite suspicious.

I think what you're saying is you'd rather have a small amount of definite information that you can condition other hypotheses on, instead of having more information that you can't use without having to consider a wide range of different but possibly-correlated variables (who to trust, who trusts whom, where different bits of data come from, how they interrelate etc). I lean towards the latter, because in a tough situation, having more information might be the difference between willing and losing, even if it means suffering some more uncertainty in the short term.

If there's 3 scum in the "odd scum" group, I think they just win: we exile in that group, they redirect the exile to the scummiest of them, they flip scum, the other 2 are basically shielded for a while, and then they can exile town until it's too late.

This is only true if we take Dylan's information absolutely at face value. The only reason I can think of for you to trust it implicitly is that you're scum and you know that Dylan is townie, but given that we have a pretty good idea that there is at least one 3p player out there, I don't think even cylon-aligned!you should be trusting not-cylon-aligned players enough to let them totally dictate your behaviour, so I don't really know what's going on there.. it presumably can't actually be the scum-tell it looks like!

Anyway, no, if we get and odd result and there are three on-wagon, I would suggest that continue to play a normal Mafia game, exiling people we have scummy evidence on, or people who fit other suspicions (like your one-cylon-aligned-player-on-the-Jack-wagon thing) etc because we can't let one not-necessarily-trustworthy person dictate our votes.

If there is an odd-number answer and it turns out that there were three scum in the pool, it's possible they can't really afford to nk from inside the pool for fear of making it smaller, which is one reason I'm leaning towards the idea that it should be biggish. If town finds someone in the pool too scummy, we assume it's possible we're in the three-scum state, by which time scum may be some very big scummy fish in a very tiny pond that makes them super-easy for us to pick off. That puts a constraint on scum to have to try to be super-townie, possibly playing and voting against their own interests because the cost of not staying hidden is so high for them all of a sudden, which is something I think town can benefit from.

[SpaceAnemone]

One last post before sleep: I'm Felix Gaeta.

Are Scola and Dylan now the only people not to have claimed, or at least strongly implied, a particular character?

[MiX]

One last post before sleep: I'm Felix Gaeta.

Are Scola and Dylan now the only people not to have claimed, or at least strongly implied, a particular character?

Didn't scola claim Adama?

[LaLight]

vote: EFHW based on a claim

[scolapasta]

One last post before sleep: I'm Felix Gaeta.

Are Scola and Dylan now the only people not to have claimed, or at least strongly implied, a particular character?

Aha! Gaeta was the other military I was expecting.

[scolapasta]

One last post before sleep: I'm Felix Gaeta.

Are Scola and Dylan now the only people not to have claimed, or at least strongly implied, a particular character?

Yeah, I claimed back on D2 when we were trying to figure out the cause of the LL-me neighborhood.

Please have more respect from your Commander, Lieutenant Junior Grade.

[EFHW]

While it does seem early for massclaiming, the game needs jump-starting so I am in favor.

Claim then! What are you waiting for?

Usually we set an order. But I'm fine with claiming. I'm Dee and I set up the QT's between LL and scola and Space and Swowl. I also have the two-shot option to make a player unable to post in their QT's for a night and a day.

...Who? Can you give me a full name?

There's been 3 night, why have you setup only 2 QTs?

I have to put the order in during the day  and Day 2 I missed deadline bc of the other game.

[EFHW]

While it does seem early for massclaiming, the game needs jump-starting so I am in favor.

Claim then! What are you waiting for?

Usually we set an order. But I'm fine with claiming. I'm Dee and I set up the QT's between LL and scola and Space and Swowl. I also have the two-shot option to make a player unable to post in their QT's for a night and a day.

Well, your powers do fit your role, as Dee was a communications officer. That said, I could also see these as scum powers, since we know that there's a Viper QT. And if you're going to make up a false claim, Dee is a relatively minor enough character and I think all the other military characters have claimed. So it's "safe".

Yeah when I heard about the viper qt, my role seemed pretty minor.

[EFHW]

I suggest LL/MiX/Didds

[ashersky]

vote: MiX, obviously. Curfew is a gambit

That was not intentional. Turns out trying to make town decide on an order just means they will do nothing.

But hey, it's what ash wanted!

This is true.

[ashersky]

Does anyone have a specifically 1-shot power?  No need to claim what it is, just wondering.

[faust]

Vote Count 4.4

Jack Rudd (1): WestCoastDidds
Robz888 (3): Jack Rudd, A Drowned Kernel, MiX
A Drowned Kernel (1): Robz888
EFHW (1): LaLight

Not Voting (5): EFHW, Dylan32, ashersky, scolapasta, SpaceAnemone

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to exile. Day 4 ends April 21, 2021, 08:30:00 am.

[LaLight]

Does anyone have a specifically 1-shot power?  No need to claim what it is, just wondering.

i had the one that was only useful on N1, to separate myself from you more

[LaLight]

I suggest LL/MiX/Didds

that would be a fun team

[ashersky]

Also, all the Robz unvotes were super super bad.

[A Drowned Kernel]

I have a thing to say but would like dylan's character claim first

[WestCoastDidds]

Does anyone have a specifically 1-shot power?  No need to claim what it is, just wondering.

I do

[EFHW]

I like this, though we should consider whether it's better information if we ask whether there's an even number of cylon-aligned players in a given group (where zero counts as even), rather than just if there's one or more.

I must be missing something. This question seems less useful because we could end up with a "yes" meaning two or none of the group are cylon-aligned.

[scolapasta]

Also, all the Robz unvotes were super super bad.

Why?

That asked my unvote was to not have him at X-1, and since there was a 2nd unvote after, I'm happy to go back to:

Vote: Robz

[scolapasta]

Does anyone have a specifically 1-shot power?  No need to claim what it is, just wondering.

I do

I do as well.

[Dylan32]

I am Tom Zarek. Also, I was out of town this weekend, so I will be catching up and engaging more fully this afternoon!

[Dylan32]

Does anyone have a specifically 1-shot power?  No need to claim what it is, just wondering.

I've already talked about it, but yeah, I get the 1 question.

[EFHW]

I was originally thinking we should choose the scummiest players. But now I think we should choose the towniest. And maybe just two people. Two IC's is awesome, and if we get an answer that there is someone clyon aligned/non-town, it takes fewer exiles to track them down.

I suggest Space and Dylan. Space for towniness and Dylan so we know whether to believe the result we get.

[scolapasta]

I was originally thinking we should choose the scummiest players. But now I think we should choose the towniest. And maybe just two people. Two IC's is awesome, and if we get an answer that there is someone clyon aligned/non-town, it takes fewer exiles to track them down.

I suggest Space and Dylan. Space for towniness and Dylan so we know whether to believe the result we get.

How would putting Dylan in there make a difference? Assuming space is town, Dylan would say no cylon-aligned either way.

We also still have to worry about cylons (or human, for that matter; though I still think flavor makes that significantly less likely) that can turn into Cylon-aligned, so we won't have full ICs, either way.

[A Drowned Kernel]

I realize that we're close to deadline and I'm complicating things even more, but:

Based on my win condition, I have reason to believe that it's very likely that there's at least one scum who is a civilian, and probably not more than one. Right now robz is my best guess for tha, but it's also another subgrouping to consider for dylan's question

[Robz888]

Really sorry for my pathetic performance here, people, but I am not mafia.

[MiX]

Really sorry for my pathetic performance here, people, but I am not mafia.

Are you a cylon?

What were your targets?

[EFHW]

I was originally thinking we should choose the scummiest players. But now I think we should choose the towniest. And maybe just two people. Two IC's is awesome, and if we get an answer that there is someone clyon aligned/non-town, it takes fewer exiles to track them down.

I suggest Space and Dylan. Space for towniness and Dylan so we know whether to believe the result we get.

How would putting Dylan in there make a difference? Assuming space is town, Dylan would say no cylon-aligned either way.

We also still have to worry about cylons (or human, for that matter; though I still think flavor makes that significantly less likely) that can turn into Cylon-aligned, so we won't have full ICs, either way.

Right. Oh well.

[WestCoastDidds]

I was originally thinking we should choose the scummiest players. But now I think we should choose the towniest. And maybe just two people. Two IC's is awesome, and if we get an answer that there is someone clyon aligned/non-town, it takes fewer exiles to track them down.

I suggest Space and Dylan. Space for towniness and Dylan so we know whether to believe the result we get.

If Dylan is scum he’s not going to give us the real result.  Upon further reflection, this feels like an attempt to get Dylan to waste his question.
Vote: EFHW

PPE 1

[MiX]

I was originally thinking we should choose the scummiest players. But now I think we should choose the towniest. And maybe just two people. Two IC's is awesome, and if we get an answer that there is someone clyon aligned/non-town, it takes fewer exiles to track them down.

I suggest Space and Dylan. Space for towniness and Dylan so we know whether to believe the result we get.

If Dylan is scum he’s not going to give us the real result.  Upon further reflection, this feels like an attempt to get Dylan to waste his question.
Vote: EFHW

PPE 1

This was my immediate reaction too. Didds gets a bunch of town points.

[SpaceAnemone]

I like this, though we should consider whether it's better information if we ask whether there's an even number of cylon-aligned players in a given group (where zero counts as even), rather than just if there's one or more.

I must be missing something. This question seems less useful because we could end up with a "yes" meaning two or none of the group are cylon-aligned.

My thinking is that the best use of a yes-no question is to partition all possible game states into two equiprobable halves, and to use the question to cut the possibility space in half. This follows from entropy (that's just a link to the "Entropy (information theory)" Wikipedia page), and the fact that the best information we can get is when p=0.5 for each of two outcomes.

If we put enough scummy people into a pot, we automatically expect that there should be at least one scum in there. Maybe we balance it so that we expect 1 or 2, then zero would be a surprise, so really we're using the question to distinguish between 1 or 2 scum in the pot, then an "even" response has a very small chance that there are 0 in the pot (and a not-impossible chance there are 4). Similarly, an "odd" response gives us exactly 1 or 3.

If we do as you suggested (modulo the thing about including Dylan!), and pick a small number of townies and then use the question to attempt to IC them, then there's an inherent risk that one of the people we pick isn't actually townie after all, then we just end up with a new at-least-one-scum-in-X constraint amongst a group of people who're playing in a townie way. I feel like that's not really a 50/50 sort of outcome.

What if we pick the most townie 4-ish people for the parity test, though? If it's an even number of scum, we assume zero by default (with a much lower chance of it being two), and if it's odd, then there's probably exactly one scum. Scum then has a strong disincentive to pick off those townie-seeming town members inside the pool, because they don't want to increase the PoE we get on the one possible non-townie one.

[SpaceAnemone]

@EFHW, you targeted LaLight on D1, and he reported knowing that he'd been targeted by a cylon that day. I feel like this is something we should address, especially since Dee isn't a canon cylon.

I know the cylon detector is potentially broken today, but I still feel like from a game design point of view there's a reasonable chance of a third player sharing the calibration duties, so would it be sensible to propose that you submit yourself for testing anyway? I figure it's a waste not to test anyone at all, even if it might just be defaulting to what I set it to if MiX really is the only other player able to use it.

[MiX]

@EFHW, you targeted LaLight on D1, and he reported knowing that he'd been targeted by a cylon that day. I feel like this is something we should address, especially since Dee isn't a canon cylon.

I know the cylon detector is potentially broken today, but I still feel like from a game design point of view there's a reasonable chance of a third player sharing the calibration duties, so would it be sensible to propose that you submit yourself for testing anyway? I figure it's a waste not to test anyone at all, even if it might just be defaulting to what I set it to if MiX really is the only other player able to use it.

Oh, you're the other person behind it? So did you pick the same things as me?

[SpaceAnemone]

@EFHW, you targeted LaLight on D1, and he reported knowing that he'd been targeted by a cylon that day. I feel like this is something we should address, especially since Dee isn't a canon cylon.

I know the cylon detector is potentially broken today, but I still feel like from a game design point of view there's a reasonable chance of a third player sharing the calibration duties, so would it be sensible to propose that you submit yourself for testing anyway? I figure it's a waste not to test anyone at all, even if it might just be defaulting to what I set it to if MiX really is the only other player able to use it.

Oh, you're the other person behind it? So did you pick the same things as me?

Ah, yes, I was originally going to give a longer claim last night, but then I figured we might as well wait for the full round of flavour claims first, and also it was late and I didn't want to post too much while tired in case I regretted it later.

I think I very, very softly revealed it already in that I've agree with almost all Scola's criticisms off you, bar the case about your power not existing N1, because of course my power was different for the first night too. I didn't actually try using it N1 because it was all a bit unclear, so didn't seem to be worthwhile with curfew in effect.

N2 I set it to "human". I'd prefer not to reveal what I set it to last night before someone tries testing today. It's possible that another player will come forward and say that they also have that power, since I think giving it to only two of us is kind of swingy in a game where presumably faust thought we'd be exiling and incapacitating people at a higher rate than this.

[MiX]

@EFHW, you targeted LaLight on D1, and he reported knowing that he'd been targeted by a cylon that day. I feel like this is something we should address, especially since Dee isn't a canon cylon.

I know the cylon detector is potentially broken today, but I still feel like from a game design point of view there's a reasonable chance of a third player sharing the calibration duties, so would it be sensible to propose that you submit yourself for testing anyway? I figure it's a waste not to test anyone at all, even if it might just be defaulting to what I set it to if MiX really is the only other player able to use it.

Oh, you're the other person behind it? So did you pick the same things as me?

Ah, yes, I was originally going to give a longer claim last night, but then I figured we might as well wait for the full round of flavour claims first, and also it was late and I didn't want to post too much while tired in case I regretted it later.

I think I very, very softly revealed it already in that I've agree with almost all Scola's criticisms off you, bar the case about your power not existing N1, because of course my power was different for the first night too. I didn't actually try using it N1 because it was all a bit unclear, so didn't seem to be worthwhile with curfew in effect.

N2 I set it to "human". I'd prefer not to reveal what I set it to last night before someone tries testing today. It's possible that another player will come forward and say that they also have that power, since I think giving it to only two of us is kind of swingy in a game where presumably faust thought we'd be exiling and incapacitating people at a higher rate than this.

Oh, whaaaaat, you get a power that is unknown and you do nothing with it? Awwww.

There's actually no roles that care about human or cylon (I guess LL's, but theirs also detects), so this power seems a bit useless...I guess we're supposed to exile cylons?

[SpaceAnemone]

Okay, in the interests of time, here's exactly how how my proposed version of Dylan's yes-no test might work. This is my current best guess of what gets the strongest info for town, but it's quite possible I've missed things that the rest of you can fill in, so consider this a consultation exercise if you like :-)

Testing group: MiX, me, Dylan, Jack, Didds

Remainder: ADK, Ash, EFHW, Scola, LL, Robz

We would ask whether there's an odd number of cylon-aligned players (making explict that we don't count zero as odd) in the testing group.

Some of my reasoning for this partitioning of the data is as follows:

• MiX and ADK should be on opposite sides, since one of them being cylon strongly implies that the other is, and having a confusing zero-or-two scenario isn't what we want. I'm putting ADK on the outside since chances are they're third-party anyway.
• Including one person who town doesn't mind voting for in the testing group gives us a strong place to start if we do get an odd response, and later on it may also be useful in we get an even response now but want to be sure it's not two scum instead of zero. That's why I've put Jack in the test set.
• I've put three of the people from the Jack wagon into the testing set, and the other three in the remainder. This way if we do decide to trust both this info and MiX's report of at least one scum on the Jack wagon, then the group is split up nicely for that reasoning too.
• I've put EFHW and LL in the remainder half because there's some odd stuff that doesn't quite gel about their claims.
• I've put Robz in the opposite group from Jack because there's a reasonable level of support for exiling him already, and if we get a zero result then at least for today I think we assume zero in the test set and exile from that remainder set.
• I actually feel townier on Scola than on Didds, but I realise I'm in the minority there, so I've put Didds inside the group and Scola outside it.

Remember, it's not like we're able to play as if this is guaranteed-true advice without Dylan flipping green at a later point in the game anyway. So what I'm trying to do here is just balance things up so we expect 0-1 scum in the "testing group". If we get an "odd" response, Jack is probably the first to be exiled. If we get "even", we assume zero scum in the testing group for today, and exile from the remainder group, in which case it currently looks like Robz gets the popular vote, though I guess there's still plenty of room for opinions to shift, and I think there are more people in the outside group that others are willing to vote for anyway.

So, who's in agreement, and are there any name swaps that make sense? If anyone disagrees outright and argues for using Dylan's shot more like a cop on a single player, are you really sure that that would give town more of an advantage than this?

[MiX]

I am in perfect agreement with the group, except the question should be "are there at least 2 cylon-aligned players in the group". This way we get to exile in the group that has the most amount of scum right off the bat, and after a scum flip we have 2 groups, each of them have 1 scum.

I think the only difference between what I said and what Space said is that instead of doing a 0/1 cylons group and a 2/3 cylon group, Space does a 0/2 cylon group and a 1/3 cylon group. I'm not sure how this added complexity helps us. I'd wager that knowing where the majority of scum are is enough of an upside to do my suggestion over Space's suggestion.

Wait a second: Space, shouldn't the group with Dylan be the bigger one?

[SpaceAnemone]

Oh, whaaaaat, you get a power that is unknown and you do nothing with it? Awwww.

I barely had time to engage with the game, and it wasn't at all easy to keep up with, so I stand by not touching the questionably-useful power that would make me hated the next day.

There's actually no roles that care about human or cylon (I guess LL's, but theirs also detects), so this power seems a bit useless...I guess we're supposed to exile cylons?

I think we expect a decent correlation between who's a cylon and who's cylon-aligned in this first game. In particular, I think the main thing that stops this power being more useful is the risk of human-aligned cylons, and I think we've already seen one of those flip because of Boomer. It's much less common to have cylon-aligned humans in the show, but Baltar and Helo are two that I could imagine in that boat in some scenarios. Let's just test people other than Baltar and Helo for cylon-ness first.

[SpaceAnemone]

I am in perfect agreement with the group, except the question should be "are there at least 2 cylon-aligned players in the group". This way we get to exile in the group that has the most amount of scum right off the bat, and after a scum flip we have 2 groups, each of them have 1 scum.

I think the only difference between what I said and what Space said is that instead of doing a 0/1 cylons group and a 2/3 cylon group, Space does a 0/2 cylon group and a 1/3 cylon group. I'm not sure how this added complexity helps us. I'd wager that knowing where the majority of scum are is enough of an upside to do my suggestion over Space's suggestion.

Wait a second: Space, shouldn't the group with Dylan be the bigger one?

Are you assuming exactly three cylon-aligned players to make "at least two" a useful question? While I think that's likely, I don't like just assuming it as a starting point for anything.

I definitely don't agree that these are the right groups if that's the style of question you want to ask, because I think the expected number of cylon players in the testing group is far below 2, and my entire point was that we get the best information when we ask a question where we're exactly 50/50 on whether the answer will be yes or no. I think what you're suggesting is a strictly worse use of information, from an information-theoretic standpoint. Either you're arguing that optimal use of the question is too hard for you/town to reason with so you don't want to be maximally townie, or you're arguing against wikipedia saying that setting both groups to p=0.5 is the best we can do for info on a one-bit test.

(Also, you're incorrect about your statement that after a scum flip, we have one scum in each pool, because your scenario doesn't distinguish between there being 2 scum in the test group or all three, whereas mine is explicitly set up to cope with telling differences like that, which will be useful for town later, and even more useful if we also add in the exactly-three-cylon-aligned-players constraint that you're silently assuming, since it would let us know that an odd number in the testing group means an even number in the remainder group and vice versa).

[Dylan32]

I agree that if there is anyone else who had control of the cylon tester, they should claim now.

If they don't, fairly safe assumption that either MiX is lying or the hidden person is not town.

I don't think anyone else claimed this so far, so Ash is probably right one way or another about this...

ppe for this line: Read the ppes and just saw Space hard claim as the other person, so ignore, but I'm not deleting.

This is a little bit random, but I’m going to kind of claim one of my powers because it could be helpful. I could ascertain whether or not ADK’s wincon is compatible with town’s. It’s a one shot power, and it’s not limited to just that question, but the answer can’t be tampered with, so I would know it’s truthful. If he can win with town, we should definitely try to find scum today instead of that, but if he’s 3rd party that straight up can’t win with town, it’s probably not a bad idea to eliminate him earlier rather than later.

I’ll wait for opinions before actually taking an action. Also, my understanding is that I can use it  any time during the game as opposed to at night, so if I’m not mistaken we can know that before EOD.

If your power can really be used for that, then I'm in favor of it being used for it

This power could rule out serial killer, but ADK being something like a survivor isn't all that comforting. They could still side against town at any moment. We know they are not exclusively town-aligned, or they wouldn't be a third party. So it's just ruling out their being completely evil. People with those roles don't tend to want as much attention as ADK has drawn on themself.

It would help to hear more about your power if you can do it without quoting.

Just putting this here to maybe reference later if something is there that I think might be there as I'm reading through.

This is a little bit random, but I’m going to kind of claim one of my powers because it could be helpful. I could ascertain whether or not ADK’s wincon is compatible with town’s. It’s a one shot power, and it’s not limited to just that question, but the answer can’t be tampered with, so I would know it’s truthful. If he can win with town, we should definitely try to find scum today instead of that, but if he’s 3rd party that straight up can’t win with town, it’s probably not a bad idea to eliminate him earlier rather than later.

I’ll wait for opinions before actually taking an action. Also, my understanding is that I can use it  any time during the game as opposed to at night, so if I’m not mistaken we can know that before EOD.

If your power can really be used for that, then I'm in favor of it being used for it

Hmm.. I'm not so sure that's optimal if the shot really can just take any player and say whether their wincon is compatible with town's.

We already have a lot of information on ADK's interactions. If ADK flips as something that isn't compatible with our town wincon, then we can be very suspicious of the players who've exhibited strong levels of trust in ADK, like MiX and Didds. In terms of webs of trust and who's scum conditional on our reads of other people, I think ADK already has a lot of evidence, and as people who've interacted with ADK flip, we'll naturally build up a better picture of how much to trust them.

Compare that to someone like Jack or Robz, about whom we know absolutely nothing, have no reads, and no interactions to speak of. Surely it's better to use a shot on Robz, because that way we keep our vague partial info on ADK, get full alignment reassurance on Robz, and end up with more information than if we only used the shot to top up that partial info on ADK.

Also, on the off-chance this is a scum!Dylan plan to cement some trust in scum!ADK, I think it's advantageous for town not to go along with the plan unchallenged.

PPE 1: EFHW, yes, I agree with that too, though I also think that in general it's better if we're hunting cylon-aligned players than third parties, especially now the third party has been outed.

Replying to the bolded parts.  So earlier in the game before it was claimed that ADK was 3rd party, I was townreading ADK more than I was most people, which influenced something I did at night before all that.  It is not pro-town to give more details on that action other than: it potentially has legacy implications depending on certain game end-states, but the effects/potential gain that I may get if those conditions are fulfilled do not outweigh the benefits of winning this current game. As such I would set aside pursuit of those goals if needed to win, and the certainty figuring out ADK's wincon would bring to that would have made it much easier to know whether or not it would actually be possible to reach such end states. This is why I wanted clarity on ADK specifically when I had the idea. I did realize that there was potentially a more useful way to use my power, which is why I presented it to get feedback instead of just using it for my own knowledge.  Also, if I were scum trying to help scum!ADK, this isn't how I would have down it. A fake rolecop claim with a result for as helpful a 3rd party role as you could find for town result on them for one, or just using that power as I described but sharing the answer instead of giving town veto power over how I use it.

especially now the third party has been outed.

from the ppe on Space's post I just talked about.  It may be nothing, but I just caught the assumption that there was only one 3rd party implicit to this comment. It might be NAI, but it's at least worth pointing out.

I’m happy for dylan to test me if we want to start on the Jack wagon

This is mildly towny for Didds, because even a Godfather presumably would be truthfully revealed by this not being a targeted cop shot, which is the normal concern for someone volunteering to be investigated, unless they are actually a Godfather and didn't realize that ability wouldn't help here. So more likely towny, but if scum!Didds, it's role-indicative.

Like someone else already said, maybe Space, it seems weird to me that Dylan thought ADK would be the best use of his power. Hoping we'll hear back from him soon.

Yeah, I explained why above. Also, EFHW seems to be engaging more with me over this than most.

I don't agree with mass-claiming yet, for two main reasons:

1. We're definitely not as far through this game as we would expect to be in terms of the number of nights and the number of posts. We're maybe in a D3 sort of scenario, and sure, that's when in a normal game we might start to consider claims, but with all the extra mechanics, I think this game already has lots of info that we can work our way through (e.g. the discussion that we started around Dylan's claimed power) before we have to resort to that.

2. The push for claims is being let by a small subset of the game, one of whom is claimed non-town, so I think it at least needs more discussion before people go ahead and claim.

I'm fine scum-reading Robz a bit more for just going along with it. He's either utterly disengaged town, or he's scum and this is a scum-driven ploy to move us away from a scenario where we have more discussion around using Dylan's supposed power on Robz instead of on ADK. I'm also not sure what to make of the fact that Robz is claiming powers without claiming a character name, when my understanding of full-claiming was definitely that the role name would be entirely relevant to claim.

Ah yes, discussion, that thing town's been doing this game.

It's day 4. We either have already lost, or someone out there has something akin to a result.

The game is a small subset of the game: there's too many people that aren't active for a town consensus to work. But I'm not going to wait for dylan to come back, it's just not reliable enough: if we are waiting for people to talk before doing things, we will end the day doing nothing, just like we did D1 and D2.

I, too, am scumreading Robz for the no details his claim has, and how he just went ahead and did it.

Fatalistic MiX is unfortunately town MiX if my memory of a couple past games is correct...

I don't care about this game anymore. I did for a brief moment when I realized I was still alive. I don't anymore, town does not give a fuck about anything and this game is too slow for anyone to agree on anything.

Vote: Robz, X-2

Reinforcing the former.

Ok, a little bit more detail about my power. I can basically come up with a yes no question in my QT and then get a truthful answer. So what if we did something like any of the set {x y z} (cylon-aligned/not human-aligned)? (parenthetical options for if you want to filter out 3rd party or include them in the results)

I could probably ask something setup related too if there was a more helpful bit of info we could come up with, but I feel like using it as a weird cop might be most directly helpful right now. That would at least give us some results to work with right now since no one else has rushed forwards with anything yet.

Ask if your top scumread is cylon-aligned. Ask if at least 1 of your 2 top scumreads are cylon-aligned. Ask if there's at least 2 cylon-aligned players in my D3 wagon (by explicitly naming people). Ask if there's at least 2 cylon-aligned players in the Jack D3 wagon. Ask if Jack is cylon-aligned.

Or are any of the viper pilots cylon-aligned? If so, y’all could off us one by one.

Interesting that Didds again volunteers to be in the test group basically.

Or was any member of the jury cylon-aligned?

At first I liked this idea because it would give info on the group and then might have implications for MiX, but then I remembered on acquittal was from 3rd party!ADK and Space didn't even get a chance to weigh in before the decision, so the only person which would give results on them and possibly MiX would be Didds. Wait, Didds proposed that. Ok, that's 3 times volunteering to be in the test group... That's suspicious, even though I don't know what scum ability could conceal or mess with this ability.

Insert quote: Space's detailed plan

I think I like this the most of all the ideas. Either Space is brilliantly manipulating things to be as little help to town as possible (possible *cough*Space Gambit*cough*), or this is about as good a plan as we are going to get unless just a straight up result on someone actually would be better for us.

One notable change to the groups proposed though - I'm not going to include myself in the testing group, because:
A) I'm town and won't affect parity of the results, so me being in the group is pointless.
B) If I was scum, then you shouldn't trust the results at all anyway, so me being in the group is pointless.

So Space, with that knowledge, who would you move from the remainder to the test group in my place?

[MiX]

I am in perfect agreement with the group, except the question should be "are there at least 2 cylon-aligned players in the group". This way we get to exile in the group that has the most amount of scum right off the bat, and after a scum flip we have 2 groups, each of them have 1 scum.

I think the only difference between what I said and what Space said is that instead of doing a 0/1 cylons group and a 2/3 cylon group, Space does a 0/2 cylon group and a 1/3 cylon group. I'm not sure how this added complexity helps us. I'd wager that knowing where the majority of scum are is enough of an upside to do my suggestion over Space's suggestion.

Wait a second: Space, shouldn't the group with Dylan be the bigger one?

Are you assuming exactly three cylon-aligned players to make "at least two" a useful question? While I think that's likely, I don't like just assuming it as a starting point for anything.

I definitely don't agree that these are the right groups if that's the style of question you want to ask, because I think the expected number of cylon players in the testing group is far below 2, and my entire point was that we get the best information when we ask a question where we're exactly 50/50 on whether the answer will be yes or no. I think what you're suggesting is a strictly worse use of information, from an information-theoretic standpoint. Either you're arguing that optimal use of the question is too hard for you/town to reason with so you don't want to be maximally townie, or you're arguing against wikipedia saying that setting both groups to p=0.5 is the best we can do for info on a one-bit test.

(Also, you're incorrect about your statement that after a scum flip, we have one scum in each pool, because your scenario doesn't distinguish between there being 2 scum in the test group or all three, whereas mine is explicitly set up to cope with telling differences like that, which will be useful for town later, and even more useful if we also add in the exactly-three-cylon-aligned-players constraint that you're silently assuming, since it would let us know that an odd number in the testing group means an even number in the remainder group and vice versa).

In what way shape or form is asking if there's an even amount of scum in a 4 player group (not counting Dylan) a 50/50 chance? Odd is much more likely.

[MiX]

To compound on what I just said: I think splitting town in half and asking if there's at least 2 cylon-aligned players in one of the groups is a 50/50 question, so yes, I do agree with the concept of entropy and how you should ask questions, I just don't see how yours accomplishes that.

PPE Dylan: yeah, I get tired of the game after a month as either alignment usually, the game gets that much harder and I play in a way that tires myself quickly. I guess I don't show it as scum often enough.

Do you have any other power besides 1-shot question and legacy related thing?

[SpaceAnemone]

One notable change to the groups proposed though - I'm not going to include myself in the testing group, because:
A) I'm town and won't affect parity of the results, so me being in the group is pointless.
B) If I was scum, then you shouldn't trust the results at all anyway, so me being in the group is pointless.

So Space, with that knowledge, who would you move from the remainder to the test group in my place?

I was deliberate in including you with the "maybe-IC" testing group, because we absolutely can't use the test information if we don't think you're townie, so I'd prefer you to stay there, to balance numbers a bit.

I'm not sure whether or not we ought to move anyone else up in your place if you did decide to take yourself out, though... we want to keep the chance of one cylon-aligned player to be more or less the same as the chance of no cylon-aligned players (plus the chance of having two of them), and right now with that set I'm more or less comfortable that I couldn't tell which way the coin flip would go.

Also, I'm getting really tired and should already be asleep, so I trust two-hours-ago me rather more than current-me right now.

[Dylan32]

One notable change to the groups proposed though - I'm not going to include myself in the testing group, because:
A) I'm town and won't affect parity of the results, so me being in the group is pointless.
B) If I was scum, then you shouldn't trust the results at all anyway, so me being in the group is pointless.

So Space, with that knowledge, who would you move from the remainder to the test group in my place?

I was deliberate in including you with the "maybe-IC" testing group, because we absolutely can't use the test information if we don't think you're townie, so I'd prefer you to stay there, to balance numbers a bit.

I'm not sure whether or not we ought to move anyone else up in your place if you did decide to take yourself out, though... we want to keep the chance of one cylon-aligned player to be more or less the same as the chance of no cylon-aligned players (plus the chance of having two of them), and right now with that set I'm more or less comfortable that I couldn't tell which way the coin flip would go.

Also, I'm getting really tired and should already be asleep, so I trust two-hours-ago me rather more than current-me right now.

My point is it's completely pointless to include me anywhere in the analysis. If I'm telling the truth, me being in it doesn't add anything useful, and if I'm not then it's obviously useless. If the division of the other players is the way you would think makes sense whether I'm in the group or not, we wouldn't have to move anyone. Oh, and in case there was any confusion on this, the question and results are specifically in my QT, which adds to the "Do I trust Dylan here" element of it. If it were publicly answered, then yes, I would include myself in the group, but as it is, you either trust that I'm relaying a truthful answer (in which case me being in doesn't matter), you don't (in which case the whole thing doesn't really matter), or I flip later and it confirms my answer as truthful without me having to be in it).

Does anyone else have thoughts about groups or subsets of 4-5 to test that would go along with the logic Space was thinking? I tend to agree that the longer term PoE level info would be a better use than a direct pseudo cop result in the moment, so if someone completely disagrees with this approach say so. I'll probably wait until tomorrow afternoon to actually ask my question and I'll post here before I do it.

[SpaceAnemone]

In what way shape or form is asking if there's an even amount of scum in a 4 player group (not counting Dylan) a 50/50 chance? Odd is much more likely.

What I'm going for is P(n==0)+P(n==2) ~= P(n==1)+P(n==3), i.e. the chance of having zero or two scum is more or less the same as having 1 or 3 scum. You can even add in more scum if you want to be thorough about covering all the game combinations. So mostly it's asking whether, in a townie-reading group, we have 0 or 1, with a small chance of 2. Since 0 counts as even, then 0 ought to be almost as likely as 1. If we really do have zero, our whole test group is kind of IC'd if Dylan ever does flip green, unless we start suspecting later that we're in the much-less-likely 2-scum scenario, but I think the natural gameplay will take care of that, and it's a very precarious position for scum to play in.

For one possible difference between the two variants of the question ("even/odd" vs "at least 2 in X"), consider a case where there are currently only two cylon-aligned players (e.g. because Awaclus didn't join them maybe?), and we have one in the testing set and one in the remainder. If we do a parity-based test, we at least realise there's only one in the test set (or an exceedingly unlikely three), whereas from the "at least 2" test we're left with knowing there's 0-1 on the test side and any number at all on the remainder. I don't think this is so unlikely a scenario, though I do agree that I think three scum overall is more likely.

@Dylan, I'm really quite confident that parity (i.e. the odd/even question) is more informative than any "at least X" test, but I'm also feeling that I'm unlikely to convince MiX at this time of night. Honestly, I can just think of too many maths puzzles where parity is a stronger way of doing things.

If we want to split the player group in two a different way, one alternative I thought of was to split us into a slightly-scummier five and a townier six, then to ask whether there are strictly more cylon-aligned people in the bigger group than the smaller one, but I'm not sure whether that's as good.

[SpaceAnemone]

My point is it's completely pointless to include me anywhere in the analysis.

Yeah, I agree. It helped my thinking to assume you were townie and place you  accordingly while reasoning it out. Who's your most-townie guess from the remainder set?

I'll probably wait until tomorrow afternoon to actually ask my question and I'll post here before I do it.

Deadline is about 36 hours out, and while it's after 9pm FT now, there's zero chance of me being awake this late tomorrow: today I was so exhausted I had an after-work nap, whereas tomorrow I'm more or less non-stop busy all day already.

I think MiX, Jack and I are all on FT+5, and Ash is something like FT+15, so as we approach deadline it's worth considering availability of people to react to the result and vote accordingly enough to get an actual exile through.

[Dylan32]

My point is it's completely pointless to include me anywhere in the analysis.

Yeah, I agree. It helped my thinking to assume you were townie and place you  accordingly while reasoning it out. Who's your most-townie guess from the remainder set?

I'll probably wait until tomorrow afternoon to actually ask my question and I'll post here before I do it.

Deadline is about 36 hours out, and while it's after 9pm FT now, there's zero chance of me being awake this late tomorrow: today I was so exhausted I had an after-work nap, whereas tomorrow I'm more or less non-stop busy all day already.

I think MiX, Jack and I are all on FT+5, and Ash is something like FT+15, so as we approach deadline it's worth considering availability of people to react to the result and vote accordingly enough to get an actual exile through.

Yeah good call with the deadline being that close. I'll probably post in like 15-18ish hours after I wake up when I first get on my computer so that there's most of a day for people to react.

[Dylan32]

Oh but townie of the remainder group is probably between ash and LL for me.

[EFHW]

I couldn't focus on the math. I think we should ask about two people because 1. The chances of scum are less than random. 2. Sorting out an answer to a scum existing answer is easier. 3. We'll never agree on more, though I guess Dylan can just choose.

We don't know how many scum there are, which I think weakens the helpfulness of Space's plan to ask about half of us, if I am understanding correctly. Chances are there would be scum in each group, and if there are 4 scum then knowing there are two in one group is the same as chance. I'm sure I'm missing things. Sorry if I've mangled your idea.

[EFHW]

Since Didds voted me for my previous wrong-headed idea (testing Dylan), here's a much scummier one. We get Dylan's result and then exile him to see if we can trust it.

Also, vote: Didds

[EFHW]

Regarding testing me, I don't see the point today, but would becwilling tomorrow assuming my continued survival.

[EFHW]

Would also vote LL.

[EFHW]

Also if you are going to put the towniest people in the testing group, you don't need the test to know which group to vote in. It sounds like Space's plan is counting on their reads being accurate. I also think a more immediately useful test is better because by the time we can make use of the longer term plan we could have already lost the game.

[scolapasta]

Since Didds voted me for my previous wrong-headed idea (testing Dylan), here's a much scummier one. We get Dylan's result and then exile him to see if we can trust it.

Also, vote: Didds

This is either super scummy or it's super towny. I can't figure out which.

I think space's plan is better than Mix's, though I'm too tired to really think about the math.

[ashersky]

I don't like the plan at all for the question, so I skimmed all of those posts.

I think we should use the yes/no question on a setup clarification that the mod normally won't answer, not an alignment question that you are making way more complicated than needed.

Like, you could do a straight up "is X town-aligned" and it is a cop.  Woot.
Using it to place some number of baddies in a subgroup seems like a suboptimal way of doing things.  Plus, it is easy to manipulate if mafia happens to be the one suggesting the groups.  Or Dylan is mafia and just literally makes things up.

A setup question could be "are there exactly four alignments" or "does a town-aligned cylon exist" or "has MiX lied about his powers in the game thread" or literally anything that can be yes/no, right?

If I were Dylan and had this power, I would have just waited until I had a question I wanted clarified and just asked it.  I get sharing it and trying to crowdsource the "optimal" use, but I think it just wasted a day, ended up with a not great plan, and left me specifically disinterested.

So that's that.

Is anyone at or close to E-1?  Let's exile.

[MiX]

In what way shape or form is asking if there's an even amount of scum in a 4 player group (not counting Dylan) a 50/50 chance? Odd is much more likely.

What I'm going for is P(n==0)+P(n==2) ~= P(n==1)+P(n==3), i.e. the chance of having zero or two scum is more or less the same as having 1 or 3 scum. You can even add in more scum if you want to be thorough about covering all the game combinations. So mostly it's asking whether, in a townie-reading group, we have 0 or 1, with a small chance of 2. Since 0 counts as even, then 0 ought to be almost as likely as 1. If we really do have zero, our whole test group is kind of IC'd if Dylan ever does flip green, unless we start suspecting later that we're in the much-less-likely 2-scum scenario, but I think the natural gameplay will take care of that, and it's a very precarious position for scum to play in.

For one possible difference between the two variants of the question ("even/odd" vs "at least 2 in X"), consider a case where there are currently only two cylon-aligned players (e.g. because Awaclus didn't join them maybe?), and we have one in the testing set and one in the remainder. If we do a parity-based test, we at least realise there's only one in the test set (or an exceedingly unlikely three), whereas from the "at least 2" test we're left with knowing there's 0-1 on the test side and any number at all on the remainder. I don't think this is so unlikely a scenario, though I do agree that I think three scum overall is more likely.

@Dylan, I'm really quite confident that parity (i.e. the odd/even question) is more informative than any "at least X" test, but I'm also feeling that I'm unlikely to convince MiX at this time of night. Honestly, I can just think of too many maths puzzles where parity is a stronger way of doing things.

If we want to split the player group in two a different way, one alternative I thought of was to split us into a slightly-scummier five and a townier six, then to ask whether there are strictly more cylon-aligned people in the bigger group than the smaller one, but I'm not sure whether that's as good.

By the laws of deepwolfing, a "townie-reading group" always has 1 scum, and exactly 1 scum. I don't see why using reads to make questions 50/50 is better than using the law of probabilities to make 50/50 questions. I hope you agree with the following statement: "If there are exactly 3 cylon-aligned players, a question that asks whether there are at least 2 cylon-aligned players in a group of 5, assuming Dylan is town, is a 50/50 question". This seems much more exact than your argument about the 50/50-ness of your question.

For example, I'm basically 100% certain there's 1 scum, and only 1 scum, in the target group. That's not really valuable information.

[faust]

Vote Count 4.5

Robz888 (4): Jack Rudd, A Drowned Kernel, MiX, scolapasta
A Drowned Kernel (1): Robz888
EFHW (2): LaLight, WestCoastDidds
WestCoastDidds (1): EFHW

Not Voting (3): Dylan32, ashersky, SpaceAnemone

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to exile. Day 4 ends April 21, 2021, 08:30:00 am. This is in roughly 29 hours.

[ashersky]

vote: Robz888

In case he's Hated.

[ashersky]

unvote

[WestCoastDidds]

I realize that we're close to deadline and I'm complicating things even more, but:

Based on my win condition, I have reason to believe that it's very likely that there's at least one scum who is a civilian, and probably not more than one. Right now robz is my best guess for tha, but it's also another subgrouping to consider for dylan's question

Did we lose track of this bit of information?

[Dylan32]

I don't like the plan at all for the question, so I skimmed all of those posts.

I think we should use the yes/no question on a setup clarification that the mod normally won't answer, not an alignment question that you are making way more complicated than needed.

Like, you could do a straight up "is X town-aligned" and it is a cop.  Woot.
Using it to place some number of baddies in a subgroup seems like a suboptimal way of doing things.  Plus, it is easy to manipulate if mafia happens to be the one suggesting the groups.  Or Dylan is mafia and just literally makes things up.

A setup question could be "are there exactly four alignments" or "does a town-aligned cylon exist" or "has MiX lied about his powers in the game thread" or literally anything that can be yes/no, right?

If I were Dylan and had this power, I would have just waited until I had a question I wanted clarified and just asked it.  I get sharing it and trying to crowdsource the "optimal" use, but I think it just wasted a day, ended up with a not great plan, and left me specifically disinterested.

So that's that.

Is anyone at or close to E-1?  Let's exile.

You say it wasted a day as though we aren't in the middle of a game that started with two no exile days?

[Dylan32]

I realize that we're close to deadline and I'm complicating things even more, but:

Based on my win condition, I have reason to believe that it's very likely that there's at least one scum who is a civilian, and probably not more than one. Right now robz is my best guess for tha, but it's also another subgrouping to consider for dylan's question

Did we lose track of this bit of information?

Is that something that would affect our exile today? Because I saw it but figured it would be most helpful later on.

[scolapasta]

I don't like the plan at all for the question, so I skimmed all of those posts.

I think we should use the yes/no question on a setup clarification that the mod normally won't answer, not an alignment question that you are making way more complicated than needed.

Like, you could do a straight up "is X town-aligned" and it is a cop.  Woot.
Using it to place some number of baddies in a subgroup seems like a suboptimal way of doing things.  Plus, it is easy to manipulate if mafia happens to be the one suggesting the groups.  Or Dylan is mafia and just literally makes things up.

A setup question could be "are there exactly four alignments" or "does a town-aligned cylon exist" or "has MiX lied about his powers in the game thread" or literally anything that can be yes/no, right?

If I were Dylan and had this power, I would have just waited until I had a question I wanted clarified and just asked it.  I get sharing it and trying to crowdsource the "optimal" use, but I think it just wasted a day, ended up with a not great plan, and left me specifically disinterested.

So that's that.

Is anyone at or close to E-1?  Let's exile.

You say it wasted a day as though we aren't in the middle of a game that started with two no exile days?

I do hear what Ash is saying about getting an answer to something that we couldn't otherwise figure out as easily via regular game play. That said, I have yet to think of anything that's better, which is why I'd be ok with using it for the group copping idea.

[Dylan32]

So I just went to my QT to ask my question, and I realized that my concern about ADK's win condition for this game was based on misreading things in my QT, so that's not a concern for me at all besides the usual "can this 3rd party win with town?" and I have no personal reason to find out beyond winning this game. There are no special end-states or anything I had mentioned that I am seeking besides just winning. I can't be more specific without direct quoting, but I needed to point this out since I had mentioned being worried about it earlier.

[MiX]

So I just went to my QT to ask my question, and I realized that my concern about ADK's win condition for this game was based on misreading things in my QT, so that's not a concern for me at all besides the usual "can this 3rd party win with town?" and I have no personal reason to find out beyond winning this game. There are no special end-states or anything I had mentioned that I am seeking besides just winning. I can't be more specific without direct quoting, but I needed to point this out since I had mentioned being worried about it earlier.

Did you ask the question then? Which one?

[SpaceAnemone]

I started a string of responses in different tabs earlier today, but I've been too busy to finish any of them yet. Here's one that's more or less ready to go:

I realize that we're close to deadline and I'm complicating things even more, but:

Based on my win condition, I have reason to believe that it's very likely that there's at least one scum who is a civilian, and probably not more than one. Right now robz is my best guess for tha, but it's also another subgrouping to consider for dylan's question

Did we lose track of this bit of information?

Oh, yes, a little! Thanks for the reminder :-) I do think it's covered okay in the groupings I suggested, but on the other hand, I think MiX (and implicitly Dylan) being in Testing and Ash and Awaclus being in Remainder more or less works.

For reference, this is what I've got in terms of people's claims, including my assumptions about military/non-military and some testing results, so please let me know if anything is wrong or if it's missing any key pieces:
1. Jack Rudd -- Saul Tigh, military
2. SpaceAnemone -- Gaeta, military
3. WestCoastDidds -- Starbuck, in pilots QT, military
4. MiX -- Baltar, civilian
5. EFHW -- Duala, possibly cylon species through LL's D1 result, military
6. scolapasta -- Bill Adama, military
7. LaLight -- Helo, in pilots QT, military
8. Dylan32 -- Zarek, civilian
9. A Drowned Kernel -- Apollo, tested Human d3, in pilots QT, military
10. Swowl -- Boomer, human-aligned, in pilots QT, military, died n3
11. Robz888 -- Cally, civilian
12. ashersky -- Chief, civilian, tested Cylon d2
13. Awaclus -- Billy, human-aligned, civilian, died n2
14. mathdude -- Roslin, human-aligned, civilian, died mid-d1

As Ashersky has said all along, the civilian-vs-military distinction for the deck crew members (Cally and the Chief) may be a blurry line.

I don't think either of the tests was yet trustworthy:
Mix claimed at #1264 to have picked "cylon" on N1 and "human" on N2.
D2 test: Only "cylon" from Mix? -> Fits with Ash getting cylon result
D3 test: 2*human ->  fits with ADK getting human result
D4 test: Only my setting?

[SpaceAnemone]

@MiX, I feel like there's very little chance that we're talking about exactly the same thing here without having incompatible hidden assumptions, because I strongly disagree with almost everything you say.

By the laws of deepwolfing, a "townie-reading group" always has 1 scum, and exactly 1 scum.

Does "deepwolfing", mean that one member of a team will always try to behave in as townie a manner as possible? If so, then I think it's probably true on average, but it can't be a "law", because if we assume that as town, then scum could get an edge simply by refusing to have any super-townie members, thus being able to count on town exiling one of their own to fill the quota.

I don't see why using reads to make questions 50/50 is better than using the law of probabilities to make 50/50 questions. I hope you agree with the following statement: "If there are exactly 3 cylon-aligned players, a question that asks whether there are at least 2 cylon-aligned players in a group of 5, assuming Dylan is town, is a 50/50 question". This seems much more exact than your argument about the 50/50-ness of your question.

First up: where is all your confidence in exactly three scum coming from? Do you have some extra game information that I missed?

Second up, let's assume a completely random group of 5 (excluding Dylan), in which each player has a 3/10 chance of being scum. By a rough simulation, I get the following histogram over the number of scums in that random set.:
   0 scums: 16.7%
   1 scums: 50.1%
   2 scums: 29.9%
   3 scums: 3.3%

So if you do "at least two", it's a 33-v-67 question, whereas "odd or even" is 53-v-47. What's more, once we have an odd-or-even, we're left in a much easier game state, because telling the difference between 1 and 3 is easier than telling the difference between 2 and 3, and I think normal game-play (like what we're going to have to do anyway, since we can't actually trust that Dylan tells us the truth) helps more in determining where we are. It's that ability alternate between states giving a "yes" and those giving a "no" that make me think that something parity-based is going to be more helpful to us than anything with an inequality is.

Of course, the above is illustrative only, because of I don't want to assume exactly 3 scums, and in real life we can use reads to at least partially sort out the list to make our expected histogram look a bit different. In particular, my initial proposal was meant to have 5 people such that ~50% of the probability is on 1, most of the rest is on zero, and a smaller portion is on 2 (or more).

For example, I'm basically 100% certain there's 1 scum, and only 1 scum, in the target group. That's not really valuable information.

If you can be that certain for any target group proposed, then congrats, we can use you as a perfect scum detector and just win, if you're town.

[MiX]

Did that simulation include that there's 3 scum? I don't think I need to prove that:

If there's 3 scum in 10 people, then in 2 5 people groups, scum is in a 0/3, 1/2, 2/1 or 3/0 split, with equal probability of being 1/2 as 2/1, and 0/3 as 3/0. So 0/3 + 1/2 odds are equal to 2/1 + 3/0 odds, which means each of them is 50%. Note that the second sum is the "at least 2 scum in the first group" question.

We are definitely talking over each other at this point, so I don't really see us agreeing on this before the day's over. Dylan should just ask whatever he feels like.

[SpaceAnemone]

I thought Ashersky's proposed uses of the question were all fair, though I think they have similar or equivalent weaknesses to the other things we've considered. A straight-up cop shot is pretty much where Dylan opened up the discussion. I totally agree that "baddies in a subgroup" isn't ideal if you don't trust whoever's picking the "baddies", but that was why I was trying to pitch my idea as a consultation with the thread, because talking about who we trust enough to want to put them into a goodies/baddies pot is precisely what we want people to be doing for fruitful gameplay anyway. And of course, if we don't trust Dylan then the whole thing is moot.

As for the game-mechanics ones, I think "exactly four alignments" is the kind of thing faust could swing on a technicality, depending on whether MiX's claimed town-but-survivor is different from my straight-up town role. The "does a town-aligned cylon exist" might be complicated by the fact that it seems likely that Swowl-Boomer was exactly a town-aligned cylon, so does Swowl still exist for the purpose of the question or not? "Is a town-aligned cylon still alive at this present moment in the game" might be a better wording. However, now the mechanism for operating the cylon testing is out in the open, I suspect it's even less useful for us to know whether that's the case, because if all it takes is killing one of me or MiX, then if the cylon-aligned faction is too worried about it, they'll just get one of us killed.

[SpaceAnemone]

Did that simulation include that there's 3 scum? I don't think I need to prove that:

If there's 3 scum in 10 people, then in 2 5 people groups, scum is in a 0/3, 1/2, 2/1 or 3/0 split, with equal probability of being 1/2 as 2/1, and 0/3 as 3/0. So 0/3 + 1/2 odds are equal to 2/1 + 3/0 odds, which means each of them is 50%. Note that the second sum is the "at least 2 scum in the first group" question.

We are definitely talking over each other at this point, so I don't really see us agreeing on this before the day's over. Dylan should just ask whatever he feels like.

Aha, sorry, yes, the numbers I pasted in were for the group of 4, because I'd been thinking on the side about the point that including Dylan in the 5 isn't necessary. This is why I shouldn't start something technical then go back to work and forget my train of thought :-/

To summarise using the conventions you used above: for the "2 or more" version:
"no" -> 0/3 or 1/2
"yes" -> 2/1 or 3/0
-- this relies on there being exactly 3 scum, because it uses a cut-off between 1 and 2 to cut that particular distribution in two.

And for the "is the number even" version:
"no" -> 1/2 or 3/0
"yes" -> 0/3 or 2/1
-- this will work just the same for other numbers of scum, and other sizes of group.
-- it also gives an outcome where within the "no" or "yes" bucket there are two more-different possibilities, and I think that makes it easier for us to work out which case it really is, based on where the scummy people are, e.g. after exiling one from each set and seeing who scum decides to NK.

[MiX]

I thought Ashersky's proposed uses of the question were all fair, though I think they have similar or equivalent weaknesses to the other things we've considered. A straight-up cop shot is pretty much where Dylan opened up the discussion. I totally agree that "baddies in a subgroup" isn't ideal if you don't trust whoever's picking the "baddies", but that was why I was trying to pitch my idea as a consultation with the thread, because talking about who we trust enough to want to put them into a goodies/baddies pot is precisely what we want people to be doing for fruitful gameplay anyway. And of course, if we don't trust Dylan then the whole thing is moot.

As for the game-mechanics ones, I think "exactly four alignments" is the kind of thing faust could swing on a technicality, depending on whether MiX's claimed town-but-survivor is different from my straight-up town role. The "does a town-aligned cylon exist" might be complicated by the fact that it seems likely that Swowl-Boomer was exactly a town-aligned cylon, so does Swowl still exist for the purpose of the question or not? "Is a town-aligned cylon still alive at this present moment in the game" might be a better wording. However, now the mechanism for operating the cylon testing is out in the open, I suspect it's even less useful for us to know whether that's the case, because if all it takes is killing one of me or MiX, then if the cylon-aligned faction is too worried about it, they'll just get one of us killed.

As a clarification: I'm strictly town.

[Robz888]

Vote: EFHW

[MiX]

Vote: EFHW

What were your targets? What have you learned?

[Robz888]

I don't actually think it helps anything for me to elaborate further.

[MiX]

I don't actually think it helps anything for me to elaborate further.

Can I take this as a confession of not acting totally and completely in favor of humans?

Someone that knows the flavor put a quote that says sorta what I'm (trying to) say, if one exists.

[SpaceAnemone]

Regarding testing me, I don't see the point today, but would becwilling tomorrow assuming my continued survival.

The point today would be to see whether the test comes up as I set it, or if something else is going on. It's not super-useful information on its own, like knowing if there might be a third controller out there, or maybe some kind of scum interference messing with the results. There really doesn't seem to be any down-side to using the test: there's no indication that it's shot-limited by anything other than the survival of the people who're setting it up, and both people who've been tested so far haven't reported any ill effects.

I'm kind of puzzled by EFHW's unwillingness to go for it, hence feeling like it's something to push a little. If nobody else wants to push that, though, does anyone mind if I go for it myself, just so we don't completely waste the opportunity to use it and see what happens?

[MiX]

Regarding testing me, I don't see the point today, but would becwilling tomorrow assuming my continued survival.

The point today would be to see whether the test comes up as I set it, or if something else is going on. It's not super-useful information on its own, like knowing if there might be a third controller out there, or maybe some kind of scum interference messing with the results. There really doesn't seem to be any down-side to using the test: there's no indication that it's shot-limited by anything other than the survival of the people who're setting it up, and both people who've been tested so far haven't reported any ill effects.

I'm kind of puzzled by EFHW's unwillingness to go for it, hence feeling like it's something to push a little. If nobody else wants to push that, though, does anyone mind if I go for it myself, just so we don't completely waste the opportunity to use it and see what happens?

Yes, I mind, the person in charge of testing shouldn't be the one tested. Since I could (somehow) be lying about my involvement, it should be someone that isn't either of us.

Also, you should probably say what you picked before we test, I don't remember if you did.

Honestly it doesn't matter, but I think it would be better to not do it at all than do it in a way that is questionable.

[Dylan32]

So here is the result from my claim, phrased carefully to communicate exactly what I asked and the answer without quoting anything.

There is an odd number of cylon-aligned players in {MiX, Space, LaLight, Jack, Didds}.

[SpaceAnemone]

does anyone mind if I go for it myself, just so we don't completely waste the opportunity to use it and see what happens?

Yes, I mind, the person in charge of testing shouldn't be the one tested.

Why not? Once we've set it up, it's a public resource and anyone can submit. I think if I refuse to be tested, I'd be setting a double standard: maybe the test will suggest I'm a cylon and have suspicion levels raised, but everyone who's tested faces that same risk, so there's nothing special about being the one who calibrates it.

My "if nobody minds" was more geared towards finding out if anyone (maybe Ash?) had some desire to take the test instead, if we're establishing that EFHW is refusing. I don't think I have a lot of respect for a suggestion that I should be banned from taking the test on principle if nobody else wants to do so and I do.

Also, you should probably say what you picked before we test, I don't remember if you did.

Oh, I thought I'd said that I'll reveal that only after we run the test. Given that we don't expect the test result to be useful except in revealing if it's been tampered with, and since town has to take my word for it ether way, I think there's no more information given out if I say so before or after, is there? If that's the case, I'd prefer to be the one interpreting whether a possible difference between what I say and what we observe is due to me lying or something else messing with the power :-)

Honestly it doesn't matter, but I think it would be better to not do it at all than do it in a way that is questionable.

It was questionable both nights so far, in that we have never hit the one-human-one-cylon setting, unless you lied about what you set it to. I think if there's a risk of RBs or similar out there who could mess with our ability, it will always be a little bit questionable. I just want to see now whether we see quirks that might make us more or less trusting of future results.

PPE 1: exciting result!

[Dylan32]

At this point, if we want to vote from in the set, I would vote Jack. If outside, I would go Robz.

[MiX]

Boring result. How are we going to exile based off it? Well, I think Robz is scum, so getting the first red flip shouldn't matter as much if so.

The scum in that group is Didds. That's followed by Jack, then Space. It doesn't reach LL. But I'm not very confident in these reads.

[MiX]

Boring result. How are we going to exile based off it? Well, I think Robz is scum, so getting the first red flip shouldn't matter as much if so.

The scum in that group is Didds. That's followed by Jack, then Space. It doesn't reach LL. But I'm not very confident in these reads.

Actually, we can be a bit more rigorous with this: with this results, the order of likeliness of people being scum that are involved, for me, are: Didds > Jack > Dylan > Space >> LL >>> MiX

[Dylan32]

So I just went to my QT to ask my question, and I realized that my concern about ADK's win condition for this game was based on misreading things in my QT, so that's not a concern for me at all besides the usual "can this 3rd party win with town?" and I have no personal reason to find out beyond winning this game. There are no special end-states or anything I had mentioned that I am seeking besides just winning. I can't be more specific without direct quoting, but I needed to point this out since I had mentioned being worried about it earlier.

Did you ask the question then? Which one?

At that point I asked but was waiting for an answer. The stuff I misread was from something earlier in the game which had originally made me think using the question about ADK was more helpful for me than it actually would have been, and I'm glad I talked about it instead of just asking since it would have been a waste of the ability.

[MiX]

So I just went to my QT to ask my question, and I realized that my concern about ADK's win condition for this game was based on misreading things in my QT, so that's not a concern for me at all besides the usual "can this 3rd party win with town?" and I have no personal reason to find out beyond winning this game. There are no special end-states or anything I had mentioned that I am seeking besides just winning. I can't be more specific without direct quoting, but I needed to point this out since I had mentioned being worried about it earlier.

Did you ask the question then? Which one?

At that point I asked but was waiting for an answer. The stuff I misread was from something earlier in the game which had originally made me think using the question about ADK was more helpful for me than it actually would have been, and I'm glad I talked about it instead of just asking since it would have been a waste of the ability.

Are you town? I know your character won't ever be "town", but do you have the town win con?

[SpaceAnemone]

So here is the result from my claim, phrased carefully to communicate exactly what I asked and the answer without quoting anything.

There is an odd number of cylon-aligned players in {MiX, Space, LaLight, Jack, Didds}.

Awesome! Thank you for going through with that test :-) If we assume this is true, and that there are 2-3 cylons overall, that almost certainly means exactly 1 from the test group, and then 1-2 from {ADK, Ash, EFHW, Scola, Robz}.

I would propose that we start with a Jack exile, as I suggested earlier. If Jack flips cylon-aligned, that gives us more trust in LL's results, which I think suggest that EFHW is a cylon, though I  would really like some more confirmation on that before proposing that she should be under scrutiny tomorrow. If Jack flips not-cylon-aligned, I guess LL would be my next pick, though of course there's also the obvious choice of flipping Dylan just to be sure.

On the off-chance there's an early rush for deadline since a lot of players are in US timezones, I'll drop a vote now:
Vote: Jack

Also, MiX, I intend to calibrate to "human" tonight, so would you like to do the complement to that so we can finally get this test working? If we have a possible third controller, maybe the best they could do would be to flip a coin in case we're messed up by RBs or worse.

PPE 5

[MiX]

So here is the result from my claim, phrased carefully to communicate exactly what I asked and the answer without quoting anything.

There is an odd number of cylon-aligned players in {MiX, Space, LaLight, Jack, Didds}.

Awesome! Thank you for going through with that test :-) If we assume this is true, and that there are 2-3 cylons overall, that almost certainly means exactly 1 from the test group, and then 1-2 from {ADK, Ash, EFHW, Scola, Robz}.

I would propose that we start with a Jack exile, as I suggested earlier. If Jack flips cylon-aligned, that gives us more trust in LL's results, which I think suggest that EFHW is a cylon, though I  would really like some more confirmation on that before proposing that she should be under scrutiny tomorrow. If Jack flips not-cylon-aligned, I guess LL would be my next pick, though of course there's also the obvious choice of flipping Dylan just to be sure.

On the off-chance there's an early rush for deadline since a lot of players are in US timezones, I'll drop a vote now:
Vote: Jack

Also, MiX, I intend to calibrate to "human" tonight, so would you like to do the complement to that so we can finally get this test working? If we have a possible third controller, maybe the best they could do would be to flip a coin in case we're messed up by RBs or worse.

PPE 5

Yes, I was planning to do cylon anyway based on your N2 action.

I don't think we should do anything other than exile Robz: I'm fairly certain he just claimed scum, and there's no way we can exile anyone else. I think you will most likely miss deadline, so please leave a vote on Robz.

[MiX]

Vote Count 4.5

Robz888 (4): Jack Rudd, A Drowned Kernel, MiX, scolapasta
A Drowned Kernel (1): Robz888
EFHW (2): LaLight, WestCoastDidds
WestCoastDidds (1): EFHW

Not Voting (3): Dylan32, ashersky, SpaceAnemone

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to exile. Day 4 ends April 21, 2021, 08:30:00 am. This is in roughly 29 hours.

Look at the VC: we're not getting 6 votes on scum!Jack. There's no way that happens.

[ashersky]

So here is the result from my claim, phrased carefully to communicate exactly what I asked and the answer without quoting anything.

There is an odd number of cylon-aligned players in {MiX, Space, LaLight, Jack, Didds}.

Awesome! Thank you for going through with that test :-) If we assume this is true, and that there are 2-3 cylons overall, that almost certainly means exactly 1 from the test group, and then 1-2 from {ADK, Ash, EFHW, Scola, Robz}.

Mafia!space reducing the possibility for their group.

[ashersky]

The result just means 1, 3, or 5 of the players in that group are cylon-aligned.  Nothing more, nothing less.

For any given player in that group who is not cylon-aligned, they know the actual answer is 1 or 3.

Had ADK been included in the group, you could have definitively taken 5 off the table (probably, assuming we believe him).

At this point, MiX and Space are incredibly strong cylon-aligned reads, so 3 seems most likely to me.  That seems unlikely, but what can I say?  The info isn't the best.

[ashersky]

Also, everyone assuming exactly 3 cylon-aligned, or most likely it's three, or whatever, just stop.

14 players opens up a lot of space.  With third parties and RMM interactions, I'd put the minimum at 4 and maximum at 6.5 non-town players.  How many of those are Cylon-aligned?  Can't know what unless you are cylon-aligned, and maybe not even then.

Using these assumptions only serves to obfuscate.

[MiX]

Hi ash!

Will you be around for deadline? If not, can you please put a vote on Robz?

[WestCoastDidds]

Boring result. How are we going to exile based off it? Well, I think Robz is scum, so getting the first red flip shouldn't matter as much if so.

The scum in that group is Didds. That's followed by Jack, then Space. It doesn't reach LL. But I'm not very confident in these reads.

You are completely wrong about me. I only care that town wins, but if being wrong about me is going to keep you derailed from that goal, please figure it out.

[WestCoastDidds]

I’m going to vote for Robz before I go to bed in about an hour. Since ash is around this is essentially E-1, so fair warning

[EFHW]

I don't think Robz is scum. vote: Jack

[EFHW]

At this point, if we want to vote from in the set, I would vote Jack. If outside, I would go Robz.

I think we should definitely vote from the set.

[EFHW]

At this point, if we want to vote from in the set, I would vote Jack. If outside, I would go Robz.

I think we should definitely vote from the set.

Though with Dylan being null, I guess it doesn't matter.  I don't see how Space can be so confident there is exactly one in the test group. I feel like Dylan's question was essentially wasted.

[ashersky]

We're like 10 hours away?  I'll be back before that.

[WestCoastDidds]

I don’t like MiX steering things quite so much

Vote: Jack

[ashersky]

Prefer to exile: MiX, Space, Jack/Robz.

[ashersky]

MiX=Space, basically, on my list.  I get the sense I'd get more traction with

vote: MiX

[WestCoastDidds]

Best guess...

Robz888 (4): Jack Rudd, A Drowned Kernel, MiX, scolapasta
EFHW (2): LaLight, Robz
Jack Rudd (3): Space, EFHW, WCD
MiX(1): ashersky

Not Voting (3): Dylan32

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to exile. Day 4 ends April 21, 2021, 08:30:00 am. This is in roughly 29 hours.

[A Drowned Kernel]

I don't think Robz is scum. vote: Jack

Why not?

I'm not trying opposed to the jack exile, and I'll be around close to feeling to switch my vote if need be, but I do not understand the resistance to exiling robz

[Robz888]

Vote: Jack

[EFHW]

I don't think Robz is scum. vote: Jack

Why not?

I'm not trying opposed to the jack exile, and I'll be around close to feeling to switch my vote if need be, but I do not understand the resistance to exiling robz

I don't get any scummy vibe from him. I would like to hear who Robz's targets were, though. Also, ash and MiX pushing him so hard has me uneasy.

Jack gave a vague claim about being able to protect himself. That sounds strange to me.

[scolapasta]

I would prefer (and am currently voting / not changing for Robz) for today. Main reason being that I am just now catching up for tonight (weekly poker night, went 2-0 woohoo!) and will likely go to bed soon.

My initial read after Dylan claimed his answer is that there are 3 scum in Robz, Didds, and EFHW. I do think it's interesting that Didds and EFHW were voting for each other, then both went to vote Jack, to keep us away from a Robz brigging.

Of course, that gives me at least some doubt because would the scum team be so obvious in trying to save their partner?? I don't know, this is where WIFOM gets me.

I will still be around for a little while tonight, but not sure how much longer.

[scolapasta]

I also continue to feel hat the game started with 1 or more human aligned cylons that could / would switch sides during the game. So is it possible there were only 2 scum to begin with, and maybe still are, with the possibility of growing to 3-4? I say this because if it started with 3 and gre by 2, 5 seems like a fairly large scum team.

In that case, I still like Robz and Didds as the team, and EFHW (and Awaclus, RIP) as the convertible cylons.

[Dylan32]

Vote Count 4.Dylan

Robz888 (4): Jack Rudd, A Drowned Kernel, MiX, scolapasta
EFHW (1): LaLight
Jack Rudd (4): SpaceAnemone, EFHW, WestCoastDidds, Robz888
MiX (1): ashersky

Not Voting (1): Dylan32

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to exile. Day 4 ends April 21, 2021, 08:30:00 am.

[Dylan32]

I won't be back before the deadline.

Vote: Jack

[Dylan32]

E-1

[faust]

Vote Count 4.6

Robz888 (4): Jack Rudd, A Drowned Kernel, MiX, scolapasta
EFHW (1): LaLight
Jack Rudd (5): SpaceAnemone, EFHW, WestCoastDidds, Robz888, Dylan32
MiX (1): ashersky

Not Voting (0)

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to exile. Day 4 ends April 21, 2021, 08:30:00 am. This is in 7 hours.

[ashersky]

LL, vote Robz.

[LaLight]

vote: Robz

[MiX]

Vote: EFHW

What were your targets? What have you learned?

I don't actually think it helps anything for me to elaborate further.

Robz cannot be town. Please, town, look at this. A jack exile is fine, but Robz is scum. Please exile scum.

[MiX]

I would prefer (and am currently voting / not changing for Robz) for today. Main reason being that I am just now catching up for tonight (weekly poker night, went 2-0 woohoo!) and will likely go to bed soon.

My initial read after Dylan claimed his answer is that there are 3 scum in Robz, Didds, and EFHW. I do think it's interesting that Didds and EFHW were voting for each other, then both went to vote Jack, to keep us away from a Robz brigging.

Of course, that gives me at least some doubt because would the scum team be so obvious in trying to save their partner?? I don't know, this is where WIFOM gets me.

I will still be around for a little while tonight, but not sure how much longer.

THIS! Scola has the solve I was about to say. Is this too good? Maybe, but we should absolutely exile Robz to test this, this makes too much sense.

I also continue to feel hat the game started with 1 or more human aligned cylons that could / would switch sides during the game. So is it possible there were only 2 scum to begin with, and maybe still are, with the possibility of growing to 3-4? I say this because if it started with 3 and gre by 2, 5 seems like a fairly large scum team.

In that case, I still like Robz and Didds as the team, and EFHW (and Awaclus, RIP) as the convertible cylons.

This seems possible, but not likely: why does Awaclus' conversion make him scummy (by killing town) and EFHW's is silent?

[ashersky]

vote: Robz

[ashersky]

MiX and Space are most likely Robz!partners.

[faust]

Day 4 Final Vote Count

Robz888 (6): Jack Rudd, A Drowned Kernel, MiX, scolapasta, LaLight, ashersky
Jack Rudd (5): SpaceAnemone, EFHW, WestCoastDidds, Robz888, Dylan32

Not Voting (0)

With 11 alive, it took 6 to exile.

[ashersky]

Also, LL and I are Moya-aligned and we totally just coordinated in thread.  Boom!

(Bonus points if you get the ref.)

[MiX]

MiX and Space are most likely Robz!partners.

What? No. I pushed Robz so hard today.

Also, LL and I are Moya-aligned and we totally just coordinated in thread.  Boom!

(Bonus points if you get the ref.)

Jokes aside, I would be surprised if EFHW and Didds didn't coordinate their votes.

[ashersky]

MiX and Space are most likely Robz!partners.

What? No. I pushed Robz so hard today.

Yeah, pushed directly under the bus.

[MiX]

MiX and Space are most likely Robz!partners.

What? No. I pushed Robz so hard today.

Yeah, pushed directly under the bus.

What a waste of a partner. I could've as easily pushed Jack.

[faust]

How can society persist if we tear each other apart? If everyone who takes it upon themselves to lead us in this dire time is subjected to a storm of accusations? We must be united if we are to stand any chance at all against our foes. Those who question our leaders should be removed from the public discourse.

Robz888 has been sent to the brig! They were Callandra Henderson, and they were human-aligned! They had the following types of powers:

• investigative
• protective

Night 4 begins now and lasts at least 48 hours. Night actions are due by April 22, 2021, 05:00:00 pm. Tonight, the following executive order is in effect:

Curfew
For any action a player takes the following Night, they will take one fewer vote to exile on the Day after.

Thread locked!

[faust]

Our time is running out. Still we have not gotten any closer in our efforts to find the hidden assassins amoung us. This day begins with another loss, as we prove less and less able to put up any sort of resistance. Is it even worth it anymore? How could we ever hope to succeed against an enemy that has already wiped out the large majority of ous species?

LaLight has been incapacitated! they were Karl "Helo" Agathon, and they were human-aligned. They had the following types of powers:

• miscellaneous, passive
• protective, passive
• 1-shot, miscellaneous
• investigative, passive

Dylan32 is the new Vice President!

Day 5 begins! Thread unlocked!

Vote Count 5.0

Not Voting (9): Jack Rudd, SpaceAnemone, WestCoastDidds, MiX, EFHW, scolapasta, Dylan32, A Drowned Kernel, ashersky

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to exile. Day 5 begins now and lasts until April 30, 2021, 04:30:00 am.

[MiX]

NO ONE VOTE!

Time is of the essence today. Everyone that is online needs to talk now. We need to solve the game before we're all quickhammered.

The first person to get on the thread should do the test, most likely.

[MiX]

Dylan is scum

Vote: Dylan

Let's go let's go everyone needs to vote for dylan right now before scum quickhammers and wins!

[faust]

The following executive order has been signed:

Isolate Colonial One
Any action targeting the President tonight will fail.

[SpaceAnemone]

The first person to get on the thread should do the test, most likely.

I think EFHW specifically has to do the test, unless we're all so certain she's a cylon that we move onto the next-most-suspicious person?

As evidence, LL was town, so was telling the truth about being able to detect cylons. He knew EFHW targeted him D1, so previously I thought either she must have been a cylon, or LL was lying. With LL's flip, we at least need to hear from EFHW about why she thinks that is. We've already seen on human-aligned cylon in the form of Boomer, so I'm pretty sceptical about the existence of a second, as opposed to actual cylon-aligned cylons.

[MiX]

I should probably talk more so people think I'm town beyond a shadow of a doubt. That includes you, ash! One wrong vote and this game could end horribly. It's possible we're not in XiLo though.

So, ADK was right: one of the civilians was scum. This makes me feel really good about him, as he's the one that told me to pick Dylan, and I only learned Dylan was scum because he was my vice-president. This also indicates that ADK was not cylon-aligned as I never learned his alignment when they were vice-president, but that's a stretch: I think my information grew in power in a reasonable proportion, so it might've not made sense to say what alignment ADK was before today.

I've also learned what character Dylan is, but not directly: the flavor implied Dylan is Caprica Six. So that would be a civilian, which makes what ADK was saying.

Let's look at the other piece of info I know: Jack's wagon.

"Jack Rudd (6): MiX, WestCoastDidds, A Drowned Kernel, scolapasta, EFHW, SpaceAnemone"

Me and ADK are...well, we're not cylon-aligned, by what I said above. So there's scum in (Didds, scola, EFHW, Space). Given what went down yesterday, I would put scum in (scola, EFHW). Didds is right: she's town. And Space would have to be aligned with Robz, I think. Then again, my reads aren't that good, I only started scumreading Dylan yesterday after he used the question the way Space wanted. I'll have to reread Dylan now.

There is an odd number of cylon-aligned players in {MiX, Space, LaLight, Jack, Didds}.

This is Dylan's question now, which has a different meaning now that he's scum. You can read it however you want, but personally I think it's bogus: chances are the real answer is even, but that's what I think anyway (they're all town), and he could've easily told the truth. I'm just posting it here for who wants to scum hunt this way (also note that LL died and is in this group: this supports my theory of 0 scum here).


Can't think of anything else that's relevant right now.

The first person to get on the thread should do the test, most likely.

I think EFHW specifically has to do the test, unless we're all so certain she's a cylon that we move onto the next-most-suspicious person?

As evidence, LL was town, so was telling the truth about being able to detect cylons. He knew EFHW targeted him D1, so previously I thought either she must have been a cylon, or LL was lying. With LL's flip, we at least need to hear from EFHW about why she thinks that is. We've already seen on human-aligned cylon in the form of Boomer, so I'm pretty sceptical about the existence of a second, as opposed to actual cylon-aligned cylons.

Yes, but I think the day will end before we can coordinate. Any result would be helpful right now: I think the scum aligned humans are either town (Baltar) or not human at all (Dylan).

[MiX]

As evidence, LL was town, so was telling the truth about being able to detect cylons. He knew EFHW targeted him D1, so previously I thought either she must have been a cylon, or LL was lying. With LL's flip, we at least need to hear from EFHW about why she thinks that is. We've already seen on human-aligned cylon in the form of Boomer, so I'm pretty sceptical about the existence of a second, as opposed to actual cylon-aligned cylons.

Wait, hold on: Swowl wasn't a cylon. Swowl targeted LL and LL didn't get their actions, right? And now that they both flipped town, we can completely trust them on this. I think cylon are actually all cylon-aligned, even if the setup wasn't designed with this as a certainty. That would explain the cylon tester a lot.

[SpaceAnemone]

Dylan is scum

Vote: Dylan

Let's go let's go everyone needs to vote for dylan right now before scum quickhammers and wins!

Last game day you said Robz was definitely scum.

I'm not believing another MiX statement that isn't backed up with sound logic described in-thread.

PPE 2, but it's work time for me so I'll have to catch up at lunch.

[MiX]

Dylan is scum

Vote: Dylan

Let's go let's go everyone needs to vote for dylan right now before scum quickhammers and wins!

Last game day you said Robz was definitely scum.

I'm not believing another MiX statement that isn't backed up with sound logic described in-thread.

PPE 2, but it's work time for me so I'll have to catch up at lunch.

Robz just stopped playing. What the hell can I do about that?

To clarify, I learned that with my power. I learned Dylan specifically because they're my vice president.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Vote: Dylan

[EFHW]

Dylan is scum

Vote: Dylan

Let's go let's go everyone needs to vote for dylan right now before scum quickhammers and wins!

Who is scum going to quickhammer? I assume you don't mean Dylan.

[MiX]

Dylan is scum

Vote: Dylan

Let's go let's go everyone needs to vote for dylan right now before scum quickhammers and wins!

Who is scum going to quickhammer? I assume you don't mean Dylan.

That is an incredibly anti-town question.

[EFHW]

What? You are skipping a lot of steps in your pronouncements.  Can you start from the beginning maybe?

[EFHW]

I'm willing to be cylon tested. You know, I could be human and someone else targeted LL in addition to me. But even if I'm cylon , I'm definitely town.  And I haven't been offered any chances to change that.

[EFHW]

Dylan is scum

Vote: Dylan

Let's go let's go everyone needs to vote for dylan right now before scum quickhammers and wins!

Last game day you said Robz was definitely scum.

I'm not believing another MiX statement that isn't backed up with sound logic described in-thread.

PPE 2, but it's work time for me so I'll have to catch up at lunch.

Robz just stopped playing. What the hell can I do about that?

To clarify, I learned that with my power. I learned Dylan specifically because they're my vice president.

Scum!Robz would never stop playing.  He'd sub out if he got too busy. Your assertion that he claimed scum didn't make sense. Whereas Jack had a scummy claim and his lurking makes sense if he is newbie scum.

Why do you assume scum!Dylan asked a question at all?

[MiX]

Why do you assume scum!Dylan asked a question at all?

I'm not. But he did answer a question, so that's information for us.

[EFHW]

Why do you assume scum!Dylan asked a question at all?

I'm not. But he did answer a question, so that's information for us.

It is? If so, he made up an answer to a made up question.  Maybe what you mean is that his choices of test group and outcome might give information about who his partners are?

It sounds like you are saying that through your passive information power, you learned that Dylan is a civilian and through being president and choosing him as VP, you got the further information that he is cylon-aligned? Why would that happen? Why didn't mathdude tell us your alignment?

[EFHW]

Requesting cylon testing

Please don't freak out and insta-exile me if it comes out positive. There is no reason to assume that there is only one human-aligned cylon, and no one has counterclaimed my OP QT making power (sarcasm, sorry). Last night ash and Space had the qt.

[WestCoastDidds]

Mix, what did your power tell you about Dylan?

Why are we not exiling Jack?

[EFHW]

Vote: Dylan

Can you help us understand your implicit trust in MiX's towniness?

[A Drowned Kernel]

Vote: Dylan

Can you help us understand your implicit trust in MiX's towniness?

Unfortunately, no, because doing so would require you to have trust in my explicit towniness, and I'm claimed third party

[MiX]

Mix, what did your power tell you about Dylan?

Why are we not exiling Jack?

It told me Dylan is cylon-aligned.

[WestCoastDidds]

EFHW, what do you think about mix’s claim about Dylan?

[MiX]

Requesting cylon testing

Please don't freak out and insta-exile me if it comes out positive. There is no reason to assume that there is only one human-aligned cylon, and no one has counterclaimed my OP QT making power (sarcasm, sorry). Last night ash and Space had the qt.

"Undergo testing" is the appropriate thing you need to bold.

[SpaceAnemone]

Last night ash and Space had the qt.

Yep, I can confirm that part.

Today is busy, so no more content from me till after 3pm FT at least.

[faust]

Requesting cylon testing

This is not a valid game action.

[faust]

Vote Count 5.1

Dylan32 (2): MiX, A Drowned Kernel

Not Voting (7): Jack Rudd, SpaceAnemone, WestCoastDidds, EFHW, scolapasta, Dylan32, ashersky

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to exile. Day 5 lasts until April 30, 2021, 04:30:00 am.

[EFHW]

Undergo Testing

[EFHW]

Mix, what did your power tell you about Dylan?

Why are we not exiling Jack?

It told me Dylan is cylon-aligned.

How did you learn he was civilian? What was the relevance then of your making him your VP.

[EFHW]

EFHW, what do you think about mix’s claim about Dylan?

I'm still trying to sort it out.

[EFHW]

Mix, what did your power tell you about Dylan?

Why are we not exiling Jack?

It told me Dylan is cylon-aligned.

How did you learn he was civilian? What was the relevance then of your making him your VP.

You originally said you learned his alignment when he became VP and that your power told you something else.

[faust]

Undergo Testing

EFHW is a Cylon.

[MiX]

Undergo Testing

EFHW is a Cylon.

Not surprising.

Mix, what did your power tell you about Dylan?

Why are we not exiling Jack?

It told me Dylan is cylon-aligned.

How did you learn he was civilian? What was the relevance then of your making him your VP.

You originally said you learned his alignment when he became VP and that your power told you something else.

Not true, I have only learned information about Dylan through my power.

Well not if you count his claim. Okay, let me clarify.

So, Tom Zarek is a civilian in the series, and given the abundant military claims, me and ADK assumed that Dylan was a civilian. I was fairly certain he'd claimed that, but you seem to think otherwise, so I don't know.

I learned that Dylan was cylon-aligned with my passive power. The flavor of the power also suggested that I learned this because he's my vice-president (the same way it suggests I learned what the turning point for a military becoming president was because I was the president), and it also implied that Dylan was Caprica Six. This is all because of my passive power.

Now, Caprica Six is also a civilian (in the flavor), so ADK's assumption that at least 1 civilian is scum is checking out. Ash and Robz's civilianness is not ground to doubt that civilian and military distinctions are arbitrary in any way: I, too, would look at a mechanic and say civilian, and overall it feels like the series is lacking civilians if you group overall assistants as military, as then you're left with the political bunch.

[MiX]

Undergo Testing

EFHW is a Cylon.

So, basically, this means one of two things: either EFHW is a cylon, or Space is scum and lied about what they were going to pick. So, tonight, I will pick human, Space should pick cylon, and then we'll test EFHW again. This way, if we get different results, one of us is scum, otherwise EFHW is a cylon. We can decide on what that makes EFHW in terms of alignment tomorrow.

[WestCoastDidds]

ADK, why did you decide to block my (next) night actions?

[scolapasta]

NO ONE VOTE!

Time is of the essence today. Everyone that is online needs to talk now. We need to solve the game before we're all quickhammered.

The first person to get on the thread should do the test, most likely.

A haiku, by scolapasta:

Mix is first in thread.
Mix says first in thread should test.
Why does Mix not test? 

[scolapasta]

Ok, so now that I got that protest out of the way, lots going on already to the start of this day. Here's some strema of conscious thinking on what I've seen (mostly because after this I should get back to work, so want to get a bunch out there, then may be able to post bits and pieces later):

Mix says Dylan is Scum but is also worried about a quickhammer. Why? there are 9 of us left, so there'd have to be 5 scum?? Oh wait, curfew, so maybe 4.

Still 4 scum seems like a lot. Unless, Mix knows there's 4, and with an exile of Dylan and a NK we get down to 7, and then 4 would be enough! (scum can't quick hammer 4 right now, because they don't yet know who performed actions last night)

SO on that note Mix or Dylan seem like good votes for today.

But then let's also add in in EFHW as a (probable) Cylon. So there's that path to pursue.

I'm definitely not ready to vote Dylan just yet, particularly because Mix is so pressuring about it. (I think part of me doubts that his passive power would be so powerful as to out a scum so easily; especially with all the other investigative powers we've seen exist)

As I agreed with the question as space posed it, the only real case I see against Dylan is Mix's claim. Which is super strong, but lacks credibility.

For the case against Mix, it is interesting that he is in all 3 groups for which we suspect at least one scum (but of course based on Mix's, Dylan's and ADK's info):

Dylan info: Odd # scum in {MiX, Space, LaLight, Jack, Didds}
Mix info: At leas 1 scum in {MiX, WestCoastDidds, A Drowned Kernel, scolapasta, EFHW, SpaceAnemone}
ADK info: Likely a scum in civilians {Dylan, MiX, ash} - not including Jack since we all think he's military

ADK are you willing to say a little more of why you think there's at least 1 civilian among the scum?

 

[MiX]

NO ONE VOTE!

Time is of the essence today. Everyone that is online needs to talk now. We need to solve the game before we're all quickhammered.

The first person to get on the thread should do the test, most likely.

A haiku, by scolapasta:

Mix is first in thread.
Mix says first in thread should test.
Why does Mix not test?

Perhaps with logic
One would understand why I
Can't do the testing

Since I control one
One aspect of the test, I
Would know its result

If I was scum, so
It's best for someone else to
Learn their true species

Ok, so now that I got that protest out of the way, lots going on already to the start of this day. Here's some strema of conscious thinking on what I've seen (mostly because after this I should get back to work, so want to get a bunch out there, then may be able to post bits and pieces later):

Mix says Dylan is Scum but is also worried about a quickhammer. Why? there are 9 of us left, so there'd have to be 5 scum?? Oh wait, curfew, so maybe 4.

Still 4 scum seems like a lot. Unless, Mix knows there's 4, and with an exile of Dylan and a NK we get down to 7, and then 4 would be enough! (scum can't quick hammer 4 right now, because they don't yet know who performed actions last night)

SO on that note Mix or Dylan seem like good votes for today.

But then let's also add in in EFHW as a (probable) Cylon. So there's that path to pursue.

I'm definitely not ready to vote Dylan just yet, particularly because Mix is so pressuring about it. (I think part of me doubts that his passive power would be so powerful as to out a scum so easily; especially with all the other investigative powers we've seen exist)

As I agreed with the question as space posed it, the only real case I see against Dylan is Mix's claim. Which is super strong, but lacks credibility.

For the case against Mix, it is interesting that he is in all 3 groups for which we suspect at least one scum (but of course based on Mix's, Dylan's and ADK's info):

Dylan info: Odd # scum in {MiX, Space, LaLight, Jack, Didds}
Mix info: At leas 1 scum in {MiX, WestCoastDidds, A Drowned Kernel, scolapasta, EFHW, SpaceAnemone}
ADK info: Likely a scum in civilians {Dylan, MiX, ash} - not including Jack since we all think he's military

ADK are you willing to say a little more of why you think there's at least 1 civilian among the scum?

You mean Dylan's investigative power? There's no cop in this setup. So I have to do it.

[scolapasta]

I'd argue if you're scum, it doesn't really matter who takes the test.

Also, haiku fail:

Since I control one
One aspect of the test, I
Would know its result

You mean Dylan's investigative power? There's no cop in this setup. So I have to do it.

No, I meant Awaclus, swowl, Robz, and Lalight. Granted, some of those were passive and Robz claimed his was military/civilian, but there's a lot we could have (and some we did learn) from those.

[MiX]

I'd argue if you're scum, it doesn't really matter who takes the test.

Also, haiku fail:

Since I control one
One aspect of the test, I
Would know its result

You mean Dylan's investigative power? There's no cop in this setup. So I have to do it.

No, I meant Awaclus, swowl, Robz, and Lalight. Granted, some of those were passive and Robz claimed his was military/civilian, but there's a lot we could have (and some we did learn) from those.

If I'm town, it doesn't matter if I take the test, because I'm town.

Nooooooooooooooooooo my honor :C

None of those are cop results.

[scolapasta]

I'd argue if you're scum, it doesn't really matter who takes the test.

Also, haiku fail:

Since I control one
One aspect of the test, I
Would know its result

You mean Dylan's investigative power? There's no cop in this setup. So I have to do it.

No, I meant Awaclus, swowl, Robz, and Lalight. Granted, some of those were passive and Robz claimed his was military/civilian, but there's a lot we could have (and some we did learn) from those.

If I'm town, it doesn't matter if I take the test, because I'm town.

Nooooooooooooooooooo my honor :C

None of those are cop results.

Since one of them was civilian / military (Robz), and another one told us cylon / human (Lalight), it seems likely (to me) that Awaclus's 2 shot was cop.

And there's still swowl's passive.

[MiX]

Ok, so now that I got that protest out of the way, lots going on already to the start of this day. Here's some strema of conscious thinking on what I've seen (mostly because after this I should get back to work, so want to get a bunch out there, then may be able to post bits and pieces later):

Mix says Dylan is Scum but is also worried about a quickhammer. Why? there are 9 of us left, so there'd have to be 5 scum?? Oh wait, curfew, so maybe 4.

Still 4 scum seems like a lot. Unless, Mix knows there's 4, and with an exile of Dylan and a NK we get down to 7, and then 4 would be enough! (scum can't quick hammer 4 right now, because they don't yet know who performed actions last night)

SO on that note Mix or Dylan seem like good votes for today.

But then let's also add in in EFHW as a (probable) Cylon. So there's that path to pursue.

I'm definitely not ready to vote Dylan just yet, particularly because Mix is so pressuring about it. (I think part of me doubts that his passive power would be so powerful as to out a scum so easily; especially with all the other investigative powers we've seen exist)

As I agreed with the question as space posed it, the only real case I see against Dylan is Mix's claim. Which is super strong, but lacks credibility.

For the case against Mix, it is interesting that he is in all 3 groups for which we suspect at least one scum (but of course based on Mix's, Dylan's and ADK's info):

Dylan info: Odd # scum in {MiX, Space, LaLight, Jack, Didds}
Mix info: At leas 1 scum in {MiX, WestCoastDidds, A Drowned Kernel, scolapasta, EFHW, SpaceAnemone}
ADK info: Likely a scum in civilians {Dylan, MiX, ash} - not including Jack since we all think he's military

ADK are you willing to say a little more of why you think there's at least 1 civilian among the scum?

Now that I'm not in an exam (online school has its privileges), let's address this post.

I will actually withdraw this concern. It was based off things that I have assumed to be true elsewhere, and I should keep assuming they're correct. But yeah curfew's annoying as hell.

The third statement I will say nothing about, as it would be anti-town.

100% vote Dylan today, there's really no decision here. These past few days have been about deciding if I'm town or not, and now is the time where you decide that, yes, I am town.

EFHW's a probably cylon, but we can do that tomorrow.

Please stop trying to imply that scum wants you to do what scum tells you to do. If I'm scum, the last thing I expect people to do is vote Dylan when I say so. You should be more willing to vote for someone I am conflicting, not less.

It has the credibility of my PR. That is much more than what we've been doing (and I am to blame for that too, given the Robz exile).

Those 3 pieces of information come from scum, myself and third-party. In fact, with my conflict, they are absolutely void: it works if dylan's scum, or if I'm scum, and we already know one of us is scum.

ADK should probably not say more but like who cares, they were right. Even if you think I'm scum. So does it matter?

[MiX]

Those 3 pieces of information come from scum, myself and third-party. In fact, with my conflict, they are absolutely void: it works if dylan's scum, or if I'm scum, and we already know one of us is scum.

Oops.

They are void in determining my alignment. Of course, the information from the town of us between me and Dylan is still useful (which for me tells me EFHW is scum).

[scolapasta]

100% vote Dylan today, there's really no decision here. These past few days have been about deciding if I'm town or not, and now is the time where you decide that, yes, I am town.

EFHW's a probably cylon, but we can do that tomorrow.

I am strongly leaning towards voting Dylan here. I think either town MiX or Survivor Mix would be telling the truth. But as we agree that we don't have the immediate rush, want to give some time to still mull it over, ask some more questions, and let players report what night time things they may have done. Otherwise my vote would put a curfewed Dylan at X-1 and I don't think we're there yet, especially with a hammering Ash.

But at the moment, I'm @ it's Dylan today, and if he's not actually scum, you tomorrow. Otherwise EFHW.

Please stop trying to imply that scum wants you to do what scum tells you to do. If I'm scum, the last thing I expect people to do is vote Dylan when I say so. You should be more willing to vote for someone I am conflicting, not less.

Sure, except for WIFOM, so good scum would know to do both.

ADK should probably not say more but like who cares, they were right. Even if you think I'm scum. So does it matter?

It does matter, but I'm not yet ready to reveal more now.


So some other questions: what were the other orders you could've chosen? Why did you choose so fast? If you are scum Mix trying to get us down to 7 (due to 4 scum), it would definitely make sense to protect yourself if you're worried a vig shot would take you out at night. And we've only flipped one killing power which was passive, so there definitely could be a vig out there still. And yes, there are also reasons for town Mix to choose that order to, so choosing it doesn't automatically imply scum or survivor Mix.

So care to enlighten us some more on your decision process there?

[MiX]

It was curfew and civilian jurisdiction. We've been over those, they aren't pro-town.

I do think we shouldn't waste time here: it's perfectly fine to just hammer Dylan before he can do anything. It's not necessary but it would help town a lot if we didn't allow any time for scum to do anything.

[EFHW]

Those 3 pieces of information come from scum, myself and third-party. In fact, with my conflict, they are absolutely void: it works if dylan's scum, or if I'm scum, and we already know one of us is scum.

Oops.

They are void in determining my alignment. Of course, the information from the town of us between me and Dylan is still useful (which for me tells me EFHW is scum).

But now I know your logic is incorrect. If you are certain I am scum, then I can't take your other certainties as accurate, either. What if you differentiate for us the things you are actually certain about from the things which are suppositions?

[scolapasta]

It was curfew and civilian jurisdiction. We've been over those, they aren't pro-town.

I do think we shouldn't waste time here: it's perfectly fine to just hammer Dylan before he can do anything. It's not necessary but it would help town a lot if we didn't allow any time for scum to do anything.

But see? that's kind of my point. You came out the day starting with a big concern about scum quickhammering and now you're the one pushing for that. Can you at least understand why that makes me oh so skeptical?

[A Drowned Kernel]

ADK, why did you decide to block my (next) night actions?

That actually blocked yours and LL's actions last night. And I did it to help my wincon

[MiX]

Those 3 pieces of information come from scum, myself and third-party. In fact, with my conflict, they are absolutely void: it works if dylan's scum, or if I'm scum, and we already know one of us is scum.

Oops.

They are void in determining my alignment. Of course, the information from the town of us between me and Dylan is still useful (which for me tells me EFHW is scum).

But now I know your logic is incorrect. If you are certain I am scum, then I can't take your other certainties as accurate, either. What if you differentiate for us the things you are actually certain about from the things which are suppositions?

The arguments I make are based on public information. They are as strong as the suppositions. My scumread on you is based on my information, but it's not deterministic: anyone else on the jack wagon could be scum and not you.

It was curfew and civilian jurisdiction. We've been over those, they aren't pro-town.

I do think we shouldn't waste time here: it's perfectly fine to just hammer Dylan before he can do anything. It's not necessary but it would help town a lot if we didn't allow any time for scum to do anything.

But see? that's kind of my point. You came out the day starting with a big concern about scum quickhammering and now you're the one pushing for that. Can you at least understand why that makes me oh so skeptical?

Yes. It's hard to push for what I know is right and what other people might think is right. Obviously, I want people to exile scum.

Honestly, as I said to EFHW in this post, what I'm saying is all from public information at this point, just take said information and come to your own conclusions.

[scolapasta]

MiX, seeing as you and I had similar scum reads yesterday (albeit they were wrong) in Robz, Didds, and EFHW? Who do you know think is scum.

Since I'm between Dylan and possibly you, I'll throw out two combos I'm considering:
Dylan, EFHW, and Jack
Mix, ADK, EFHW, and Didds (this is the possible 4 team scum that ash alluded to possibly existing)

My current town reads are (clearly): space and ash

[MiX]

MiX, seeing as you and I had similar scum reads yesterday (albeit they were wrong) in Robz, Didds, and EFHW? Who do you know think is scum.

Since I'm between Dylan and possibly you, I'll throw out two combos I'm considering:
Dylan, EFHW, and Jack
Mix, ADK, EFHW, and Didds (this is the possible 4 team scum that ash alluded to possibly existing)

My current town reads are (clearly): space and ash

Dylan, EFHW and Jack. This doesn't really make sense, but that's where I am right now. I'd like to see 2 scum flip before deciding on the third.

[A Drowned Kernel]

@scola as mix said, I was right about there being a scum among the civilians. Explaining why I thought that at this point only helps scum, which presumably you don't want

[scolapasta]

And the other question I guess I'd like to know is how exactly does this passive power of yours work then - do you get these messages at Night, at start of the Day? and are the clear or are they somehow obfuscated and you're interpreting them for us?

[MiX]

And the other question I guess I'd like to know is how exactly does this passive power of yours work then - do you get these messages at Night, at start of the Day? and are the clear or are they somehow obfuscated and you're interpreting them for us?

End of night. They aren't very obscure.

[scolapasta]

@scola as mix said, I was right about there being a scum among the civilians. Explaining why I thought that at this point only helps scum, which presumably you don't want

Well, we don't really know that yet. Though sure, if either Dylan or Mix is scum then sure.

ACTUALLY, I just realized something - huh.

So the main reason I 'm leaning Dylan over Mix is because Mix claimed this and why would scum Mix do that? But an alternative could be that he's concerned we'll suspect him because he's a civilian. i.e. it's him vs Dylan (and yes there's ash as well, but I don't know if any of us currently have any strong scum read towards him).

continuing on this train for a minute, if we were to presume one of Dylan or Mix, without that info from Mix, it's at least 50-50, maybe more MiX, based on those other subgroups. Of course, it's not that complicated due to the fact that those subgroups (other than ADKs) were generated by Mix and Dylan themselves.

But again, from Mix's perspective, if you think today's brigging would be one of him or Dylan why not come out making this claim?

[scolapasta]

And the other question I guess I'd like to know is how exactly does this passive power of yours work then - do you get these messages at Night, at start of the Day? and are the clear or are they somehow obfuscated and you're interpreting them for us?

End of night. They aren't very obscure.

What made you think last night's was because Dylan became your VP?

[scolapasta]

@scola as mix said, I was right about there being a scum among the civilians. Explaining why I thought that at this point only helps scum, which presumably you don't want

It also helps town. Presumably you do want that.

[MiX]

And the other question I guess I'd like to know is how exactly does this passive power of yours work then - do you get these messages at Night, at start of the Day? and are the clear or are they somehow obfuscated and you're interpreting them for us?

End of night. They aren't very obscure.

What made you think last night's was because Dylan became your VP?

Flavor. I don't think I can explain this more.

@scola as mix said, I was right about there being a scum among the civilians. Explaining why I thought that at this point only helps scum, which presumably you don't want

It also helps town. Presumably you do want that.

Why would it help town?

[A Drowned Kernel]

@scola as mix said, I was right about there being a scum among the civilians. Explaining why I thought that at this point only helps scum, which presumably you don't want

It also helps town. Presumably you do want that.

Trust me: it doesn't

[WestCoastDidds]

ADK, why did you decide to block my (next) night actions?

That actually blocked yours and LL's actions last night. And I did it to help my wincon

Ah, okay. What was it that we might have done that we were trying to prevent?

[A Drowned Kernel]

ADK, why did you decide to block my (next) night actions?

That actually blocked yours and LL's actions last night. And I did it to help my wincon

Ah, okay. What was it that we might have done that we were trying to prevent?

Killed mix, killed me

[WestCoastDidds]

ADK, why did you decide to block my (next) night actions?

That actually blocked yours and LL's actions last night. And I did it to help my wincon

Ah, okay. What was it that we might have done that we were trying to prevent?

Killed mix, killed me

Hmmm... I think you guessed wrong on my abilities

[faust]

Vote Count 5.2

Dylan32 (2): MiX, A Drowned Kernel

Not Voting (7): Jack Rudd, SpaceAnemone, WestCoastDidds, EFHW, scolapasta, Dylan32, ashersky

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to exile. Day 5 lasts until April 30, 2021, 04:30:00 am.

[SpaceAnemone]

Scum!Robz would never stop playing.  He'd sub out if he got too busy. Your assertion that he claimed scum didn't make sense.

Did MiX ever explain to anyone else's satisfaction what Robz's alleged admission of scumminess was?

[MiX]

Scum!Robz would never stop playing.  He'd sub out if he got too busy. Your assertion that he claimed scum didn't make sense.

Did MiX ever explain to anyone else's satisfaction what Robz's alleged admission of scumminess was?

No, by definition.

I asked 3 times what Robz had targeted and what he saw. He never answered. That felt like he was taking his lurkiness to extreme levels, to the point where if he was scum, he didn't need to talk anymore. That's basically it. I was also annoyed by Robz not having participated basically at all from D3 forward.

[SpaceAnemone]

Why are we not exiling Jack?

I actually agree that Jack isn't the best target here. Scum choosing to kill within yesterday's testing set is unexpected to me, and probably only happens because they're happy enough with the idea that town is likely to exile Jack.

I have next to no confidence in MiX's claims, but I do actually think that exiling Dylan isn't terrible for town, simply his flip tells us whether to trust the answer to his question, and that's the only piece of logic-based scum-hunting info we have left that's not influenced by claims coming from MiX and ADK.

As for MiX and ADK, I think there's a very strong chance they're working together towards their own goals, but I think it's less likely they're cylon-aligned than purely a third party, simply because MiX has been leaking some kind of third-party knowledge all game. However, I do know for sure that unless scum were deliberately able to influence the cylon test then MiX did as he said he would do, and set his side to cylon, since that's the only way we'd see a cylon result when I set my half to read human.

[scolapasta]

Scum!Robz would never stop playing.  He'd sub out if he got too busy. Your assertion that he claimed scum didn't make sense.

Did MiX ever explain to anyone else's satisfaction what Robz's alleged admission of scumminess was?

No, by definition.

I asked 3 times what Robz had targeted and what he saw. He never answered. That felt like he was taking his lurkiness to extreme levels, to the point where if he was scum, he didn't need to talk anymore. That's basically it. I was also annoyed by Robz not having participated basically at all from D3 forward.

I mean, this is a big part of what convinced me to vote for Robz. It wasn't that he was too busy to post, since he did respond, but all his posts were short, without much detail. That just seemed like he was trying to slip by without having to claim anything useful or that he could be caught on.

Now I know that was wrong, but if not scummy it was definitely anti town.

[MiX]

Why are we not exiling Jack?

I actually agree that Jack isn't the best target here. Scum choosing to kill within yesterday's testing set is unexpected to me, and probably only happens because they're happy enough with the idea that town is likely to exile Jack.

I have next to no confidence in MiX's claims, but I do actually think that exiling Dylan isn't terrible for town, simply his flip tells us whether to trust the answer to his question, and that's the only piece of logic-based scum-hunting info we have left that's not influenced by claims coming from MiX and ADK.

As for MiX and ADK, I think there's a very strong chance they're working together towards their own goals, but I think it's less likely they're cylon-aligned than purely a third party, simply because MiX has been leaking some kind of third-party knowledge all game. However, I do know for sure that unless scum were deliberately able to influence the cylon test then MiX did as he said he would do, and set his side to cylon, since that's the only way we'd see a cylon result when I set my half to read human.

There's 9 players alive: if both me and ADK are third-party, chances are town has already lost, and we've already won. At this point, you're going to have to trust us when we say we want town to win.

[WestCoastDidds]

Why are we not exiling Jack?

I actually agree that Jack isn't the best target here. Scum choosing to kill within yesterday's testing set is unexpected to me, and probably only happens because they're happy enough with the idea that town is likely to exile Jack.

I have next to no confidence in MiX's claims, but I do actually think that exiling Dylan isn't terrible for town, simply his flip tells us whether to trust the answer to his question, and that's the only piece of logic-based scum-hunting info we have left that's not influenced by claims coming from MiX and ADK.

As for MiX and ADK, I think there's a very strong chance they're working together towards their own goals, but I think it's less likely they're cylon-aligned than purely a third party, simply because MiX has been leaking some kind of third-party knowledge all game. However, I do know for sure that unless scum were deliberately able to influence the cylon test then MiX did as he said he would do, and set his side to cylon, since that's the only way we'd see a cylon result when I set my half to read human.

This is helpful, thank you.

It clarifies some of the things I have been thinking about MiX and ADK.

[WestCoastDidds]

I think I’m ready to vote for Dylan.

But I don’t want to rush folks if we aren’t ready for that.

[SpaceAnemone]

Scum!Robz would never stop playing.  He'd sub out if he got too busy. Your assertion that he claimed scum didn't make sense.

Did MiX ever explain to anyone else's satisfaction what Robz's alleged admission of scumminess was?

No, by definition.

I asked 3 times what Robz had targeted and what he saw. He never answered. That felt like he was taking his lurkiness to extreme levels, to the point where if he was scum, he didn't need to talk anymore. That's basically it. I was also annoyed by Robz not having participated basically at all from D3 forward.

That was all? This is why you need to actually show your logic in detail in-thread :-( You being annoyed or frustrated at Robz for ignoring or missing a question from you doesn't make him scum in the slightest, and I think your push against him at the EoD was not the best use of town's information at that point.

[SpaceAnemone]

There's 9 players alive: if both me and ADK are third-party, chances are town has already lost, and we've already won. At this point, you're going to have to trust us when we say we want town to win.

OTOH, scum isn't taking ADK out, but is clearly able to perform NKs, so how can we be sure ADK really has town's interests at heart, if keeping you and ADK alive is so townie?

[MiX]

Scum!Robz would never stop playing.  He'd sub out if he got too busy. Your assertion that he claimed scum didn't make sense.

Did MiX ever explain to anyone else's satisfaction what Robz's alleged admission of scumminess was?

No, by definition.

I asked 3 times what Robz had targeted and what he saw. He never answered. That felt like he was taking his lurkiness to extreme levels, to the point where if he was scum, he didn't need to talk anymore. That's basically it. I was also annoyed by Robz not having participated basically at all from D3 forward.

That was all? This is why you need to actually show your logic in detail in-thread :-( You being annoyed or frustrated at Robz for ignoring or missing a question from you doesn't make him scum in the slightest, and I think your push against him at the EoD was not the best use of town's information at that point.

I think it was. Following Dylan's question, as proven by my result on him, wasn't going to help town.

There's 9 players alive: if both me and ADK are third-party, chances are town has already lost, and we've already won. At this point, you're going to have to trust us when we say we want town to win.

OTOH, scum isn't taking ADK out, but is clearly able to perform NKs, so how can we be sure ADK really has town's interests at heart, if keeping you and ADK alive is so townie?

Why would scum kill a third-party? ADK being alive is their best chances of winning this game. I'm not dying because I have too many layers of Isolate Colonial One on me. That and I've had heat on me all game, and the other NKs were townier.

[SpaceAnemone]

I think I’m ready to vote for Dylan.

But I don’t want to rush folks if we aren’t ready for that.

I don't want to rush it.

If Dylan is scum, why did he offer up a one-bit question that he was proposing using as a cop shot that would either have given town an IC, or set Dylan up for a 1-v-1 with whomever he accused, that was bound to get him exiled today anyway?

[SpaceAnemone]

Why would scum kill a third-party? ADK being alive is their best chances of winning this game.

Ah, so please explain in detail why we're shouldn't all be voting ADK now.

[SpaceAnemone]

Why would scum kill a third-party? ADK being alive is their best chances of winning this game.

Ah, so please explain in detail why we're shouldn't all be voting ADK now.

* why we shouldn't all be voting ADK, I mean. I was going to say "why we're not all voting ADK", but that wasn't as clear.

[MiX]

Also, hmm, it's possible either of us are regular scum. That's really what town should be concerned about (and a question I will have to deal with when me and ADK inevitably reach XiLo, it's like a tradition).

I think I’m ready to vote for Dylan.

But I don’t want to rush folks if we aren’t ready for that.

I don't want to rush it.

If Dylan is scum, why did he offer up a one-bit question that he was proposing using as a cop shot that would either have given town an IC, or set Dylan up for a 1-v-1 with whomever he accused, that was bound to get him exiled today anyway?

So town could direct his shot to something more useless.

I don't know. But that is easily answered if you're scum. That question is hard to answer, and I've considered that my power might've been tampered with because of it. I just don't see town winning if scum can force a direct conflict between 2 town like this, and it makes my power borderline anti-town. But my paranoia's somewhat there.

Why would scum kill a third-party? ADK being alive is their best chances of winning this game.

Ah, so please explain in detail why we're shouldn't all be voting ADK now.

So we can kill scum instead.

It's a very good question, and one that pertains to ADK's alignment, so I won't answer in detail. But scum not wanting to shoot a third-party doesn't mean we want to exile them. Town wants to kill scum. Scum wants to kill town. Neither wants to kill third-parties.

[SpaceAnemone]

I don't know. But that is easily answered if you're scum. That question is hard to answer, and I've considered that my power might've been tampered with because of it. I just don't see town winning if scum can force a direct conflict between 2 town like this, and it makes my power borderline anti-town. But my paranoia's somewhat there.

It's not very easy to unpick what you're trying to say here. My question was about why scum!Dylan shares the existence of this question and lets town direct it when it's likely to lead very quickly to one of two town-beneficial events. What "conflict between two towns" are you referring to, and what would scum!Dylan's plan have had to look like to bring that about without risking being pro-town?

Why would scum kill a third-party? ADK being alive is their best chances of winning this game.

Ah, so please explain in detail why we're shouldn't all be voting ADK now.

So we can kill scum instead.

So far we've done a great job of going after townies rather than scum, so if ADK being alive really is scum's best chance of winning, over pushing to get townies exiled, then I think that's a great argument for exiling ADK instead of letting scummy people or wrong townies take down another one of our own.

It's a very good question, and one that pertains to ADK's alignment, so I won't answer in detail. But scum not wanting to shoot a third-party doesn't mean we want to exile them. Town wants to kill scum. Scum wants to kill town. Neither wants to kill third-parties.

Well, I think I might want to kill a third party, and I'm town.

[EFHW]

@Space, Why are you assuming scum!Dylan even had a question?

[EFHW]

Have we even heard from Dylan yet?

[scolapasta]

@Space, Why are you assuming scum!Dylan even had a question?

Do you really think Dylan just completely made up the idea of the question? To what gain?

Since my biggest concern with voting or Dylan is that if he is town and there is a 4 scum team that wins the game with that, is there harm in maybe brigging ADK today like space suggests instead? If he is part of the 4 person scum team, great, and if he's not, then we haven't hurt any town (I am not at all convinced by ADK or MiC's oh you can trust us, we want town to win)

[MiX]

I don't know. But that is easily answered if you're scum. That question is hard to answer, and I've considered that my power might've been tampered with because of it. I just don't see town winning if scum can force a direct conflict between 2 town like this, and it makes my power borderline anti-town. But my paranoia's somewhat there.

It's not very easy to unpick what you're trying to say here. My question was about why scum!Dylan shares the existence of this question and lets town direct it when it's likely to lead very quickly to one of two town-beneficial events. What "conflict between two towns" are you referring to, and what would scum!Dylan's plan have had to look like to bring that about without risking being pro-town?

Why would scum kill a third-party? ADK being alive is their best chances of winning this game.

Ah, so please explain in detail why we're shouldn't all be voting ADK now.

So we can kill scum instead.

So far we've done a great job of going after townies rather than scum, so if ADK being alive really is scum's best chance of winning, over pushing to get townies exiled, then I think that's a great argument for exiling ADK instead of letting scummy people or wrong townies take down another one of our own.

It's a very good question, and one that pertains to ADK's alignment, so I won't answer in detail. But scum not wanting to shoot a third-party doesn't mean we want to exile them. Town wants to kill scum. Scum wants to kill town. Neither wants to kill third-parties.

Well, I think I might want to kill a third party, and I'm town.

We've only exiled 1 town, so we're not doing that badly to be honest.

@Space, Why are you assuming scum!Dylan even had a question?

Do you really think Dylan just completely made up the idea of the question? To what gain?

Since my biggest concern with voting or Dylan is that if he is town and there is a 4 scum team that wins the game with that, is there harm in maybe brigging ADK today like space suggests instead? If he is part of the 4 person scum team, great, and if he's not, then we haven't hurt any town (I am not at all convinced by ADK or MiC's oh you can trust us, we want town to win)

It's probably safe, I personally just want the game to be over as fast as possible for my personal goal. I also don't want to gamble on scum being able to take advantage of ADK being dead. Of course, I guess from every other town's perspective you don't want to gamble on me being town...

[scolapasta]

Vote: ADK

[MiX]

Vote: ADK

You can, and should, redirect that vote to Dylan.

[MiX]

@Space, Why are you assuming scum!Dylan even had a question?

Do you really think Dylan just completely made up the idea of the question? To what gain?

Since my biggest concern with voting or Dylan is that if he is town and there is a 4 scum team that wins the game with that, is there harm in maybe brigging ADK today like space suggests instead? If he is part of the 4 person scum team, great, and if he's not, then we haven't hurt any town (I am not at all convinced by ADK or MiC's oh you can trust us, we want town to win)

Okay I guess since this threat of voting ADK was real I should add more bias to my answer to this.

ADK has demonstrated they are trying to make me win. That is enough for them to be town aligned, in my book. But it's not enough for scum.

Honestly if ADK was scum they would've won by now, as there would have to be 4 scum, since there's curfew they can all quickhammer.

[scolapasta]

@Space, Why are you assuming scum!Dylan even had a question?

Do you really think Dylan just completely made up the idea of the question? To what gain?

Since my biggest concern with voting or Dylan is that if he is town and there is a 4 scum team that wins the game with that, is there harm in maybe brigging ADK today like space suggests instead? If he is part of the 4 person scum team, great, and if he's not, then we haven't hurt any town (I am not at all convinced by ADK or MiC's oh you can trust us, we want town to win)

Okay I guess since this threat of voting ADK was real I should add more bias to my answer to this.

ADK has demonstrated they are trying to make me win. That is enough for them to be town aligned, in my book. But it's not enough for scum.

Honestly if ADK was scum they would've won by now, as there would have to be 4 scum, since there's curfew they can all quickhammer.

No because a quickhammer only works against those who performed an action last night. As of now that looks like ADK and WCD (based on their blocking discussion) so it just means that a 4 scum team that doesn't include MiX, ADK, and Didds doesn't exist.

However, get one town to vote with the team and then sure. Which is one possible interpretation to how this day has begun.

[Dylan32]

Dylan is scum

Vote: Dylan

Let's go let's go everyone needs to vote for dylan right now before scum quickhammers and wins!

What? Well, this is an exciting start to the day. I'm just confused because this doesn't make any sense from cylon-aligned!MiX to force a 1v1 like this. He's definitely wrong, but this makes me think there might be a separate 3rd party faction that he and maybe ADK are in together or something... That or something was able to screw with the results you got.

I should probably talk more so people think I'm town beyond a shadow of a doubt. That includes you, ash! One wrong vote and this game could end horribly. It's possible we're not in XiLo though.

So, ADK was right: one of the civilians was scum. This makes me feel really good about him, as he's the one that told me to pick Dylan, and I only learned Dylan was scum because he was my vice-president. This also indicates that ADK was not cylon-aligned as I never learned his alignment when they were vice-president, but that's a stretch: I think my information grew in power in a reasonable proportion, so it might've not made sense to say what alignment ADK was before today.

I've also learned what character Dylan is, but not directly: the flavor implied Dylan is Caprica Six. So that would be a civilian, which makes what ADK was saying.

Let's look at the other piece of info I know: Jack's wagon.

"Jack Rudd (6): MiX, WestCoastDidds, A Drowned Kernel, scolapasta, EFHW, SpaceAnemone"

Me and ADK are...well, we're not cylon-aligned, by what I said above. So there's scum in (Didds, scola, EFHW, Space). Given what went down yesterday, I would put scum in (scola, EFHW). Didds is right: she's town. And Space would have to be aligned with Robz, I think. Then again, my reads aren't that good, I only started scumreading Dylan yesterday after he used the question the way Space wanted. I'll have to reread Dylan now.

There is an odd number of cylon-aligned players in {MiX, Space, LaLight, Jack, Didds}.

This is Dylan's question now, which has a different meaning now that he's scum. You can read it however you want, but personally I think it's bogus: chances are the real answer is even, but that's what I think anyway (they're all town), and he could've easily told the truth. I'm just posting it here for who wants to scum hunt this way (also note that LL died and is in this group: this supports my theory of 0 scum here).


Can't think of anything else that's relevant right now.

The first person to get on the thread should do the test, most likely.

I think EFHW specifically has to do the test, unless we're all so certain she's a cylon that we move onto the next-most-suspicious person?

As evidence, LL was town, so was telling the truth about being able to detect cylons. He knew EFHW targeted him D1, so previously I thought either she must have been a cylon, or LL was lying. With LL's flip, we at least need to hear from EFHW about why she thinks that is. We've already seen on human-aligned cylon in the form of Boomer, so I'm pretty sceptical about the existence of a second, as opposed to actual cylon-aligned cylons.

Yes, but I think the day will end before we can coordinate. Any result would be helpful right now: I think the scum aligned humans are either town (Baltar) or not human at all (Dylan).

This is absurd. The urgency that town is so close to losing feels extremely manufactured to me, because MiX has been carrying on like this for like 2 days already. So you're basing all your actions on literally claimed 3rd party as the basis for how you play?  Let me say it for the fans in the back, THAT'S NOT TOWNY. Wait, and you allegedly got information about me you weren't getting on other VPs? This is nonsense. And now you are making up speculation on my flavor? Tom Zarek is a civilian, and while he seems like a very conflicted dude based on the wiki, the one thing he wasn't was cylon-aligned. I don't have any idea who Caprica 6 is, so I can't even pretend to know what you could be pulling out of your rear end to come up with that.

You then ignore the actual final Jack wagon: "Jack Rudd (5): SpaceAnemone, EFHW, WestCoastDidds, Robz888, Dylan32"

"Me and ADK are...well, we're not cylon-aligned, by what I said above."
You can't even bring yourself to say your town? I'm not even going to engage with your wagon analysis because you're just making crap up now.

100% vote Dylan today, there's really no decision here. These past few days have been about deciding if I'm town or not, and now is the time where you decide that, yes, I am town.

EFHW's a probably cylon, but we can do that tomorrow.

I am strongly leaning towards voting Dylan here. I think either town MiX or Survivor Mix would be telling the truth. But as we agree that we don't have the immediate rush, want to give some time to still mull it over, ask some more questions, and let players report what night time things they may have done. Otherwise my vote would put a curfewed Dylan at X-1 and I don't think we're there yet, especially with a hammering Ash.

But at the moment, I'm @ it's Dylan today, and if he's not actually scum, you tomorrow. Otherwise EFHW.

Please stop trying to imply that scum wants you to do what scum tells you to do. If I'm scum, the last thing I expect people to do is vote Dylan when I say so. You should be more willing to vote for someone I am conflicting, not less.

Sure, except for WIFOM, so good scum would know to do both.

ADK should probably not say more but like who cares, they were right. Even if you think I'm scum. So does it matter?

It does matter, but I'm not yet ready to reveal more now.


So some other questions: what were the other orders you could've chosen? Why did you choose so fast? If you are scum Mix trying to get us down to 7 (due to 4 scum), it would definitely make sense to protect yourself if you're worried a vig shot would take you out at night. And we've only flipped one killing power which was passive, so there definitely could be a vig out there still. And yes, there are also reasons for town Mix to choose that order to, so choosing it doesn't automatically imply scum or survivor Mix.

So care to enlighten us some more on your decision process there?

Not going into why right now, but my gut says this is scummy.

[MiX]

I'm town. I just thought it was funny if the way I wrote that implied I was aligned with ADK.

You are not town.

[Dylan32]

Actually, the more I think about it, I think if we exile me here, I think it's basically putting town in a king-making situation between cylons and whatever ADK and MiX are. So screw it.

Vote: MiX for lying.

Also, you won't be offended if I don't use out QT at all I hope.

[MiX]

Day 3 Final Vote Count

MiX (4): ashersky, LaLight, Jack Rudd, Robz888
Jack Rudd (6): MiX, WestCoastDidds, A Drowned Kernel, scolapasta, EFHW, SpaceAnemone
Robz888 (1): Swowl

Not Voting (1): Dylan32

With 12 alive, it took 7 to exile.

Also, you are wrong about what you said.

[WestCoastDidds]

@Space, Why are you assuming scum!Dylan even had a question?

Do you really think Dylan just completely made up the idea of the question? To what gain?

Since my biggest concern with voting or Dylan is that if he is town and there is a 4 scum team that wins the game with that, is there harm in maybe brigging ADK today like space suggests instead? If he is part of the 4 person scum team, great, and if he's not, then we haven't hurt any town (I am not at all convinced by ADK or MiC's oh you can trust us, we want town to win)

Okay I guess since this threat of voting ADK was real I should add more bias to my answer to this.

ADK has demonstrated they are trying to make me win. That is enough for them to be town aligned, in my book. But it's not enough for scum.

Honestly if ADK was scum they would've won by now, as there would have to be 4 scum, since there's curfew they can all quickhammer.

No because a quickhammer only works against those who performed an action last night. As of now that looks like ADK and WCD (based on their blocking discussion) so it just means that a 4 scum team that doesn't include MiX, ADK, and Didds doesn't exist.

However, get one town to vote with the team and then sure. Which is one possible interpretation to how this day has begun.

Clarification: ADK blocked me and LL. Presumably that took on action. So, I didn’t act, but they did. I don’t think I’ve got the voting penalty but they should have it.

[ashersky]

ADK has to be the exile today.  There is no other option.

[ashersky]

MiX is 100% anti-town.  I believe zero words he types in the game thread.

[ashersky]

Literally, his first two posts are:

1.  NO ONE VOTE AHHHHHHHH
2.  Votes.

[ashersky]

He supposedly has a power where the mod just gives him random, extremely game-changing information on a nightly basis, without having to do anything.

Like, what?  That is terrible game design.  Faust is not a terrible game designer.  Like, is there a deus ex machina in the tv show that is equally terrible and annoying and he had to include it in the game?

If I had claimed that I had a passive power which provides me with mod information to support any argument or post I want to make, would you believe me?

[ashersky]

As for ADK, seems to be playing the standard survivor game.  Like, to a tee.  100%.  No reason to believe he isn't playing as if he is what he claimed.

That said, he will ABSOLUTELY take the win with cylons when that option becomes the clear choice.

MiX's crazy scared act at the beginning of the day would have you think that town has slim chances at winning.  If that's true, why would he want to keep around the 3rd party player?

So, to me, ADK is a survivor-type role that will doom town OR mafia with MiX.

ADK ends up being the default safe exile option.

[EFHW]

He supposedly has a power where the mod just gives him random, extremely game-changing information on a nightly basis, without having to do anything.

Like, what?  That is terrible game design.  Faust is not a terrible game designer.  Like, is there a deus ex machina in the tv show that is equally terrible and annoying and he had to include it in the game?

If I had claimed that I had a passive power which provides me with mod information to support any argument or post I want to make, would you believe me?

Why would ADK support him at every point? Are you saying they are scum, too?

Didds, I guess ADK told you they were blocking you in the viper qt? Anything else you can about that?

We need to finish the massclaim.

PPE ash

[ashersky]

I will only vote for ADK or MiX.

I definitely prefer myself over any other player not named ADK or MiX to be the exile.

[ashersky]

Oh, the Robz exile:

He has successfully built a meta that says "lazy Robz is town and trying Robz is mafia."  There are two ways to fix that: be lazy as mafia or try as town.  I figured it was the former, too bad it wasn't the latter.  The latter, at least, could have helped town before his exile.

It was a good exile and there was nothing with it, and it was also perfect.  That was lost battle that may help win the war sort of thing, as future seasons hopefully provide us a reinvigorated Robz.

[EFHW]

ADK and MiX, I'd like to hear how your alliance developed.  Please paraphrase the conversation in as much detail as possible.

[ashersky]

Why would ADK support him at every point? Are you saying they are scum, too?

Any number of reasons.  Here are a few:

--ADK is survivor, MiX is mafia and they've already colluded.
--ADK and MiX are the same non-town faction.
--ADK has been duped by MiX (unlikely).
--ADK sees MiX as his ticket to ensuring a faction wins with him alive, either by helping town win or helping town destroy itself.
--ADK suspects MiX is mafia and sees he has been somewhat effective as destroying town's chances, so he's just waiting to win with mafia while playing along with MiX's act and letting MiX think he's convinced.

[ashersky]

Anyway, the important bits:

ADK is a player who is NOT ALIGNED WITH HUMANS.  He does not deny thing point.  He can win with humans, but can just as easily (or perhaps more easily), win with cylons, or others.  There's no reason to count him in the human column.

If mafia get to the point where they can just win with ADK, one mafia can claim, then threaten the NK if he doesn't join them.  And ADK, if he plays to win, which everyone should, will just join them.

ANYONE who says they would rather lose as 3rd party than win as 3rd party with mafia is either lying or should not be allowed to play a game where everyone should be trying to win.

So, ADK is a clear and present danger to town's chances of winning.  There is no argument that can be made against that.  He can make emotional pleas that he prefers to win with town.  There are plenty of things people prefer, but that doesn't change what we do when push comes to shove.

[ashersky]

MiX has made a number of indescribably unbelievable claims and has done nothing to help town win.  He seems to be trying to help ADK win?  He definitely is trying to help himself.

The only person who seems to believe every single word that is typed by MiX is the only player who has confirmed himself as non-town.  Whatever MiX is saying clearly works for him.

The most flabbergasting thing about all of this is MiX could end up being town anyway, regardless of how anti-town he's being.  But, as with Robz, just letting it go helps no one.

When I do clearly anti-town things for my own gain, I expect to get exiled.  I most often do, except when I don't, and then everyone gets upset when I win as mafia or SK and act like they knew the whole time I was bad, even when my alignment was green.  If that was the case, you should have exiled me.  And that is exactly the case with MiX.

[ashersky]

Added bonus of exiling ADK: we ensure he doesn't win, even if town loses.  For anyone who enjoys sour grapes, keep that in mind.

[MiX]

ADK and MiX, I'd like to hear how your alliance developed.  Please paraphrase the conversation in as much detail as possible.

They said "I wanted to be VP so I could claim to you that I am third-party" and then they claimed their alignment and powers. Then I said "cool, that is exactly what my personal goal needed, let's be friends".

Then we talked a lot about a bunch of stuff, which gave ADK an increasingly stronger townread on me.

I'm not sure what else is there. We talked about reads enough that I have theirs and they have mine, and we've talked about power directions to the point where it feels like we are one.

MiX has made a number of indescribably unbelievable claims and has done nothing to help town win.  He seems to be trying to help ADK win?  He definitely is trying to help himself.

The only person who seems to believe every single word that is typed by MiX is the only player who has confirmed himself as non-town.  Whatever MiX is saying clearly works for him.

The most flabbergasting thing about all of this is MiX could end up being town anyway, regardless of how anti-town he's being.  But, as with Robz, just letting it go helps no one.

When I do clearly anti-town things for my own gain, I expect to get exiled.  I most often do, except when I don't, and then everyone gets upset when I win as mafia or SK and act like they knew the whole time I was bad, even when my alignment was green.  If that was the case, you should have exiled me.  And that is exactly the case with MiX.

They're only unbelievable if you don't believe them. I have tried to help town win over and over again, that has been all I've been doing this entire game.

From public information, I can't actually see a reason not to kill ADK. But I'd rather not leave it to chance, and exile Dylan, who is scum.

You can't just exile me as we're in XiLo if ADK is third-party.

Added bonus of exiling ADK: we ensure he doesn't win, even if town loses.  For anyone who enjoys sour grapes, keep that in mind.

ADK has been more town than us. They deserve to win.

[faust]

Vote Count 5.3

Dylan32 (2): MiX, A Drowned Kernel
A Drowned Kernel (1): scolapasta
MiX (1): Dylan32

Not Voting (5): Jack Rudd, SpaceAnemone, WestCoastDidds, EFHW, ashersky

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to exile. Day 5 lasts until April 30, 2021, 04:30:00 am.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Anyway, the important bits:

ADK is a player who is NOT ALIGNED WITH HUMANS.  He does not deny thing point.  He can win with humans, but can just as easily (or perhaps more easily), win with cylons, or others.  There's no reason to count him in the human column.

If mafia get to the point where they can just win with ADK, one mafia can claim, then threaten the NK if he doesn't join them.  And ADK, if he plays to win, which everyone should, will just join them.

ANYONE who says they would rather lose as 3rd party than win as 3rd party with mafia is either lying or should not be allowed to play a game where everyone should be trying to win.

So, ADK is a clear and present danger to town's chances of winning.  There is no argument that can be made against that.  He can make emotional pleas that he prefers to win with town.  There are plenty of things people prefer, but that doesn't change what we do when push comes to shove.

I get where you're coming from here, but there's something I've mentioned before that's relevant: I don't have to be alive in order to win, so scum can't make me collaborate just by threatening to kill me

[WestCoastDidds]

He supposedly has a power where the mod just gives him random, extremely game-changing information on a nightly basis, without having to do anything.

Like, what?  That is terrible game design.  Faust is not a terrible game designer.  Like, is there a deus ex machina in the tv show that is equally terrible and annoying and he had to include it in the game?

If I had claimed that I had a passive power which provides me with mod information to support any argument or post I want to make, would you believe me?

Why would ADK support him at every point? Are you saying they are scum, too?

Didds, I guess ADK told you they were blocking you in the viper qt? Anything else you can about that?

We need to finish the massclaim.

PPE ash

It was a message from faust in the QT...there was some flavor from faust about ADK yelling at us, and then it said that everyone else in qt couldn’t do actions tonight. I assumed it was for the next night because I didn’t pay attention to when it was posted until ADK clarified.

There was almost no talk in the qt last night. LL couldn’t post. I asked one question, ADK answered, then I did some POE stuff for myself, and that was it.

[scolapasta]

I have not yet caught up on anything from overnight, but I wanted to quickly post and say I'll be unavailable for most of the day.

[EFHW]

Shouldn't we finish the massclaim?

[MiX]

Shouldn't we finish the massclaim?

Who are we waiting on?

[EFHW]

Shouldn't we finish the massclaim?

Who are we waiting on?

We claimed flavor, but did we claim power roles? I did, but I don't feel like I know anyone else's.

[SpaceAnemone]

@Space, Why are you assuming scum!Dylan even had a question?

I wasn't, but if scum!Dylan was making up the existence of a question, why would he offer to use that to cop someone for us? Robz's name was one of the first to come up, and we know he's town, so why wouldn't lying scum do something that's easier for scum to steer for their own scummy uses than asking for town input? If town recommends using the cop shot on someone who's town, Dylan either has to put himself in a 1-v-1, or to create an almost-IC. Instead, scum!Dylan could just have faked the result of a cop shot on scum (if that was his aim?), rather than faked asking for advice on a cop shot.

The only explanations I can think of feel really weak, like maybe scum wanted to get town's reads on everyone, or maybe there really was a one-bit question, but scum were the ones who were given it and just wanted to use the thread's creativity to work out the optimal use. Otherwise, I could do with some more-likely-sounding suggestions for what Dylan was up to with the question if he's really scum.

[MiX]

@Space, Why are you assuming scum!Dylan even had a question?

I wasn't, but if scum!Dylan was making up the existence of a question, why would he offer to use that to cop someone for us? Robz's name was one of the first to come up, and we know he's town, so why wouldn't lying scum do something that's easier for scum to steer for their own scummy uses than asking for town input? If town recommends using the cop shot on someone who's town, Dylan either has to put himself in a 1-v-1, or to create an almost-IC. Instead, scum!Dylan could just have faked the result of a cop shot on scum (if that was his aim?), rather than faked asking for advice on a cop shot.

The only explanations I can think of feel really weak, like maybe scum wanted to get town's reads on everyone, or maybe there really was a one-bit question, but scum were the ones who were given it and just wanted to use the thread's creativity to work out the optimal use. Otherwise, I could do with some more-likely-sounding suggestions for what Dylan was up to with the question if he's really scum.

The question he made is basically incapable of outing him: at worst he's in a direct conflict in XiLo. And who's the one that suggested it?

But from a town!Space perspective, I also don't understand. It doesn't seem like a good fakeclaim anyway, and it's pretty far from what the flavor claim would typically be able to do. Overall the claims surrounding Dylan are weird.

[ashersky]

Let's compare two random things...

One player claimed a power to ask one specific question to the mod to gain information about the setup/game/players/etc.  There are some players questions the validity of this claim.

Another player claimed to receive information about the setup/game/players/etc. on a regular basis directly from the mod for free.  No players except for me are questioning this claim.

I'm done with this game.  Please exile me if there are really no intentions to try to win.

[ashersky]

Vote: ADK

MiX is clearly my top mafia read and the only one that matters.  However, I am still convinced the best way to maintain chances of a town win is to remove ADK first. 

I will only post intermittently from now on to avoid prods unless I see enough other players I consider towny to start playing to win.  My level of frustration here is not worth whatever benefit I may be getting from being more active.

I mean, good game and congratulations to the mafia team.  Can't blame them for being frustrating, that's literally their job.

[ashersky]

I get where you're coming from here, but there's something I've mentioned before that's relevant: I don't have to be alive in order to win, so scum can't make me collaborate just by threatening to kill me

Sorry, one more, didn't post my response to this -- clearly a survivor would be expected to lie about this, no?  I mean, that's "how to survive as a survivor" 101.

[scolapasta]

Let's compare two random things...

One player claimed a power to ask one specific question to the mod to gain information about the setup/game/players/etc.  There are some players questions the validity of this claim.

Another player claimed to receive information about the setup/game/players/etc. on a regular basis directly from the mod for free.  No players except for me are questioning this claim.

I'm done with this game.  Please exile me if there are really no intentions to try to win.

I'm not sure you're the only one who is questioning this - I've asked a bunch of different questions of Mix to try to understand this power and to see if what he says about it is consistent. And I posted this some time earlier:

Is it possible that a Survivor MiX lies about one (or more) of these? I doubt it, but I could see him doing that in order to cover for something he'd rather not share.

• first one does feels a little sketchy in that he learned that after Awaclus basically confirmed this for us when telling us he was given a choice to switch. Second one would be a more risky lie as we could verify (but only
• 2nd one is only verifiable once MiX is brigged or incapacitated so why would he care? That said, he'd have had to come up with it and it does seem a reasonable actual design
• 3rd one could be used to get us down the path of brigging people from that wagon

Your post made me want to go back and reread MiX's N4 claim from the beginning of the day. A few things now stand out:

I should probably talk more so people think I'm town beyond a shadow of a doubt. That includes you, ash!

Interesting way to phrase the first sentence. And that he specifically calls out Ash, who is scum reading MiX.  Maybe it means little, but then add to the fact that MiX's first push was to brig as quickly as possible, even before everyone had a chance to check in. My new take is it wasn't necessarily before *everyone* could check in, but specifically maybe ash? Since his time zone is so different than the rest of us...

So, ADK was right: one of the civilians was scum. This makes me feel really good about him, as he's the one that told me to pick Dylan, and I only learned Dylan was scum because he was my vice-president. This also indicates that ADK was not cylon-aligned as I never learned his alignment when they were vice-president, but that's a stretch: I think my information grew in power in a reasonable proportion, so it might've not made sense to say what alignment ADK was before today.

Wait, wait wait. Why would this indicate ANYTHING about ADK? Your power claim was that you learned random things passively. And you have claimed a learned thing for each night already. So when would you have learned anything about ADK? Why would now learning something about Dylan now correlate to anything you learned on a previous night? This really makes zero sense.


Frankly, I don't think this is your actual power. I still think your jury was from an actual power of yours, so you knew you were not immediately brigged, and you used that as an excuse to "reveal" all of this info.

Whether this is from scum Mix or survivor Mix? I don't know. Could it be town Mix? I guess maybe, but I gotta say my general rule is to doubt the towniness of people who make things up.

I've also learned what character Dylan is, but not directly: the flavor implied Dylan is Caprica Six. So that would be a civilian, which makes what ADK was saying.

So you learned both that Dylan is cylon-aligned and his character? Again that seems like a lot of info, from a passive power.

[scolapasta]

Vote: ADK

MiX is clearly my top mafia read and the only one that matters.  However, I am still convinced the best way to maintain chances of a town win is to remove ADK first. 

I will only post intermittently from now on to avoid prods unless I see enough other players I consider towny to start playing to win.  My level of frustration here is not worth whatever benefit I may be getting from being more active.

I mean, good game and congratulations to the mafia team.  Can't blame them for being frustrating, that's literally their job.

Earlier in the day, I was considering a Dylan or MiX vote today with a vote tomorrow on the other if the flip was civilian. I leaned Dylan, but I could vote MiX today, Dylan tomorrow if that's wrong.

But that said, I voted ADK and still am happy there, along the same lines of what you say above. I also think it's a good test to see what MiX will do. From an earlier exchange:

Since my biggest concern with voting or Dylan is that if he is town and there is a 4 scum team that wins the game with that, is there harm in maybe brigging ADK today like space suggests instead? If he is part of the 4 person scum team, great, and if he's not, then we haven't hurt any town (I am not at all convinced by ADK or MiC's oh you can trust us, we want town to win)

It's probably safe, I personally just want the game to be over as fast as possible for my personal goal. I also don't want to gamble on scum being able to take advantage of ADK being dead. Of course, I guess from every other town's perspective you don't want to gamble on me being town...

[scolapasta]

I get where you're coming from here, but there's something I've mentioned before that's relevant: I don't have to be alive in order to win, so scum can't make me collaborate just by threatening to kill me

Sorry, one more, didn't post my response to this -- clearly a survivor would be expected to lie about this, no?  I mean, that's "how to survive as a survivor" 101.

Channeling my inner LaLight (RIP), this is an AMAZING point.

Is there any kind of double or team survivor role? (i.e. could they both be survivors?)

[A Drowned Kernel]

vote: ADK

Probably the best odds I'm gonna get

[faust]

Day 5 Final Vote Count

Dylan32 (1): MiX
A Drowned Kernel (3): scolapasta, ashersky, A Drowned Kernel
MiX (1): Dylan32

Not Voting (3): Jack Rudd, SpaceAnemone, WestCoastDidds, EFHW

With 9 alive, it took 5 to exile.

[faust]

The crisis in the government has deepened, as now the civilian leaders were accusing one another of secretly working for the Cylons. Any semblance of proper governance seems eroded now. Amidst all this chaos, the commander's son himself stepped forward and confessed he had been defying orders. It seems that humanity just can't catch a break...

A Drowned Kernel has been sent to the brig! They were Lee Adama, and they were self-aligned. They had the following powers:

• 1-shot, Day, miscellaneous
• manipulative
• miscellaneous, passive
• 1-shot, blocking

The following executive order is in effect tonight:

Isolate Colonial One
Any action targeting the President tonight will fail.

Night 5 begins now and lasts at least 48 hours. Night actions are due by April 26, 2021, 07:00:00 pm.

Thread locked!

[faust]

That night, they attacked in force. The resources on Galactica were already stretched thin. The Cylon fleet jumped into view just as inside Galactica, bombs detonated. Our Viper pilots fought back as best they could, but it was nowhere near enough. With such an overwhelming enemy presence, the President quickly determined that humanity did not stand a chance in the fight.

We all expected to be wiped out by Cylon bombs; it did not come to this. Instead, they accepted our surrender. A short time after, an announcement was broadcast among the fleet.

"People of the Twelve Colonies! We did not come here seeking further destruction. We believe that it is possible for Cylons and humans to coexist peacefully, and we want to prove it. This is not the end, but it can be a new beginning. We have come to take you home."

Suvivor count: 34,865

EFHW has been incapacitated! They were Anastasia "Dee" Dualla, and they were human-aligned. They had the following powers:

• miscellaneous, Day
• 1-shot, investigative
• 2-shot, manipulative

SpaceAnemone has been incapacitated! They were Felix Gaeta, and they were human-aligend. They had the following powers:

• investigative
• 1-shot, killing

WestCoastDidds has been incapacitated! They were Kara Thrace, and they were human-aligned. They had the following powers:

• miscellaneous, passive
• protective, killing
• 1-shot, miscellaneous

MiX and ashersky have been endgamed! The scum team of Dylan32, Jack Rudd and scolapasta wins! A Drowned Kernel wins as well!

Season 1 has concluded! Everyone may post in this thread again.

This is the link to the speccy: https://www.quicktopic.com/53/H/p4csSuAPbwLz

[faust]

The following card is removed form the executive order deck:

Mandate testing
Pick another player. The next Cylon test available will be performed on that player, if they are still alive by that time.

Turning point triggered: The game ends Night 5 or sooner.

Everything happened so quickly.. we have barely had time to mourn what we have lost.

The following card is shuffled into the executive order deck:

Vigil
Tonight, all players who control the same character they did the previous game may use an active power they had in that game instead of their current powers. Powers with limited shots may only be used if the shots have not yet been used up.

[faust]

With the game concluded, it is time to choose end-of-game modifications to the rules. There will be one communal vote on changes, and afterwards another vote only among the winners. The modifications to get the most votes will affect future games. You may vote No Change. Here are the possible modifications:

Game Modifications available

Add player slot
In all future games, there will be 15 players in the game rather than 14. Signups will be opened for this slot. The new player starts with 3 legacy points per finished game.

Add card to the executive order deck
Choose one of the following cards to be added to the deck:

Course for Kobol Trigger a turning point. Remove this from the game. Judicial reform Today, the votes of the President and Vice President each count as two votes. This does not impact the number of votes required to exile.

Special Counsel Pick a player when choosing this. After this Night, that player's alignment will be revealed, and there will be an additional Night phase. Vote of Confidence Trigger a Presidential Election. The current President cannot be exiled today.

Remove card from the executive order deck
Pick any card in the executive order deck and remove it from the campaign.

Bankable deadlines
This changes the rules for deadlines as follows: The first Day phase lasts for as many days as twice the amount of players in the game. All subsequent Day phases last 3 days. When a Day ends prior to the deadline, all time left over in that Day will be carried over as extra time for the following Day.

Day 1 plurality exile
In the first Day, an exile will always occur, even when no player reaches the number of votes needed to exile. In that case, the exile will be the player with the most votes at the end of the Day. Tiebreakers are, in order:
- the vote of the President
- the vote of the Vice President or Admiral
- the number of prods the players in question received
- the number of civilian votes on the players
- town-aligned players flip before non-town-aligned players

Separate military from government
Remove the role of Vice President from the game. Add the role of Admiral to the game. Executive orders now work as follows: The Admiral draws 3 cards, discards one, the President receives the remaining cards and chooses one to enact.
The Admiral can secretly choose a successor. When they are removed from the game, their successor takes their place. Otherwise, a random military player becomes Admiral.

Term limits
Whenever a President reaches their third Day in office, trigger an election, in which that player cannot be voted for.

[Swowl]

gah! well played everyone!

[MiX]

Sigh...god dammit. Ash! Trust me, at least once in your life! We could've won that had we all voted Dylan instantly like I wanted!

Am I still president?

[faust]

Every player should indicate in their personal QT whether they wish to Keep their character or Switch to another character. This is void if your character has been removed from the campaign.

The President may choose one character that was sent to the brig this game and remove them from the campaign.

[LaLight]

I get where you're coming from here, but there's something I've mentioned before that's relevant: I don't have to be alive in order to win, so scum can't make me collaborate just by threatening to kill me

Sorry, one more, didn't post my response to this -- clearly a survivor would be expected to lie about this, no?  I mean, that's "how to survive as a survivor" 101.

Channeling my inner LaLight (RIP), this is an AMAZING point.

Is there any kind of double or team survivor role? (i.e. could they both be survivors?)

scola, what did you mean here about channeling inner LaLight?

[A Drowned Kernel]

That was fun. Not the best outcome for me, I lost out on some legacy points, but it was interesting to play such an odd win condition

[A Drowned Kernel]

I'm looking at Day 1 plurality exile and the admiral role as changes

[MiX]

That was fun. Not the best outcome for me, I lost out on some legacy points, but it was interesting to play such an odd win condition

Did you win more if town won or something?

I'm looking at Day 1 plurality exile and the admiral role as changes

Nooooo, not admiral! I like day 1 plurality, but for the other one I wanted a new order, either Course for Kobol or Special Counsel. But, of course, I'm heavily biased.

[ashersky]

I'm looking at Day 1 plurality exile and the admiral role as changes

Agree on both.

[ashersky]

Survivor won with mafia, as foretold.

Always, always, always exile claimed 3rd party immediately.

[A Drowned Kernel]

For legacy reasons, l'll keep it a mystery

[ashersky]

I'm curious how mafia got 3 NKs in one night.  Seems...hard to defeat.

Scola played the best of the mafia-aligned players, in my opinion, although MiX definitely should be MVP for ensuring their win.

[ashersky]

For legacy reasons, l'll keep it a mystery

Keep what a mystery?  The rule changes?  I'm fairly sure those would have to be public.

[MiX]

Survivor won with mafia, as foretold.

Always, always, always exile claimed 3rd party immediately.

That was the reason we lost! What the hell! They're not a survivor!

For fuck's sake ash, how can you still be like this when we literally got endgamed because we didn't kill scum. Had Dylan been exiled, even 3 kills wouldn't had endgamed us.

For legacy reasons, l'll keep it a mystery

That's fair.

I'm curious how mafia got 3 NKs in one night.  Seems...hard to defeat.

Scola played the best of the mafia-aligned players, in my opinion, although MiX definitely should be MVP for ensuring their win.

Oh come on ash. We both voted Robz.

[ashersky]

Sigh...god dammit. Ash! Trust me, at least once in your life! We could've won that had we all voted Dylan instantly like I wanted!

Am I still president?

I was never voting Dylan.  You ensured that.

[A Drowned Kernel]

For legacy reasons, l'll keep it a mystery

Keep what a mystery?  The rule changes?  I'm fairly sure those would have to be public.

I was talking about mix's question about my legacy points

[A Drowned Kernel]

I'm curious how mafia got 3 NKs in one night.  Seems...hard to defeat.

Scola played the best of the mafia-aligned players, in my opinion, although MiX definitely should be MVP for ensuring their win.

I'm assuming at least one of those was a big misfiring

[A Drowned Kernel]

Vig*

[ashersky]

Basically, if you want to convince me to do something, your only hope is to not talk about it at all, I think.  If you try to convince me, I'll think you are lying.  If you try to convince me of the opposite just to get me to go against you, I'll assume that's what you are doing.

[ashersky]

I'm curious how mafia got 3 NKs in one night.  Seems...hard to defeat.

Scola played the best of the mafia-aligned players, in my opinion, although MiX definitely should be MVP for ensuring their win.

I'm assuming at least one of those was a big misfiring

Probably MiX shot someone.

[MiX]

Basically, if you want to convince me to do something, your only hope is to not talk about it at all, I think.  If you try to convince me, I'll think you are lying.  If you try to convince me of the opposite just to get me to go against you, I'll assume that's what you are doing.

Then learn how to read me better. Don't blame me for not trusting what I'm trying to say because I'm trying to convince you. I'm not going to change my speech based on everyone else's wisher. If everyone thinks like that, sure, but I can't simultaneously want to convince other people by saying the truth and convince you by saying the opposite.

I'm curious how mafia got 3 NKs in one night.  Seems...hard to defeat.

Scola played the best of the mafia-aligned players, in my opinion, although MiX definitely should be MVP for ensuring their win.

I'm assuming at least one of those was a big misfiring

Probably MiX shot someone.

Fuck. I would've shot Dylan if I could. Ash just stop with these accusations.

[ashersky]

I mean, congrats mafia, I guess.

Although, and no offense meant, but town lost this game way more than mafia won it.  And I'm accepting any blame that is to go around, as I assume I took the loss as town here since I wasn't listed in the winning players list.

@Mafia team: why didn't you recruit me?  I thought I was pretty clearly signaling to you.

[MiX]

I need this out of my system, because we're gonna be playing a lot more legacy games together, and if we end up being town again we're just going to mutually destroy each other like we're doing now.

I personally think it's okay to do it in this thread, but if you/faust/anyone wants to redirect this to PMs, I'd be happy to.

I mean, congrats mafia, I guess.

Although, and no offense meant, but town lost this game way more than mafia won it.  And I'm accepting any blame that is to go around, as I assume I took the loss as town here since I wasn't listed in the winning players list.

@Mafia team: why didn't you recruit me?  I thought I was pretty clearly signaling to you.

Yeah, town lost pretty badly, and we're all to blame: even I voted Robz when Jack was significantly more scummy if I took an objective look at things.

[ashersky]

Basically, if you want to convince me to do something, your only hope is to not talk about it at all, I think.  If you try to convince me, I'll think you are lying.  If you try to convince me of the opposite just to get me to go against you, I'll assume that's what you are doing.

Then learn how to read me better. Don't blame me for not trusting what I'm trying to say because I'm trying to convince you. I'm not going to change my speech based on everyone else's wisher. If everyone thinks like that, sure, but I can't simultaneously want to convince other people by saying the truth and convince you by saying the opposite.

I'm curious how mafia got 3 NKs in one night.  Seems...hard to defeat.

Scola played the best of the mafia-aligned players, in my opinion, although MiX definitely should be MVP for ensuring their win.

I'm assuming at least one of those was a big misfiring

Probably MiX shot someone.

Fuck. I would've shot Dylan if I could. Ash just stop with these accusations.

I'm 100% sure you are playing for your own personal gains here -- legacy, meta, etc.  If losing game put you in a better position for future games, I'm sure you would do it.

And yes, I definitely would to.  I'm not "blaming" you, I'm pointing out what I think is going on.  There's a difference.  You aren't doing anything wrong or breaking any rules.  I would, in fact, fall on the side of arguing that you are doing exactly what you should be doing.  It's just frustrating for those of us who are not gaining from it.

[ashersky]

Jack did well to use newbie status to survive.  I would definitely have coached him to do the same.  That was just smart play.

[ashersky]

I'm 100% sure you are playing for your own personal gains here -- legacy, meta, etc.  If losing this game put you in a better position for future games, I'm sure you would do it.

And yes, I definitely would too.  I'm not "blaming" you, I'm pointing out what I think is going on.  There's a difference.  You aren't doing anything wrong or breaking any rules.  I would, in fact, fall on the side of arguing that you are doing exactly what you should be doing.  It's just frustrating for those of us who are not gaining from it.

Saw two typos.  My bad.  Fixed above.

[ashersky]

Also, definitely switching characters.  Need a more clearly good or bad person for sure.

[MiX]

Jack did well to use newbie status to survive.  I would definitely have coached him to do the same.  That was just smart play.

Yes. This. I want to see town!Jack so much right now.

Also, ash, I can't see your profile pic anymore. Is it just me?

[ashersky]

No, I see that as well.  Maybe whatever photo I was linked to went down.

I'll find something else.

[ashersky]

It was a Dune photo forever as I prepared for Dune mafia, so makes sense to switch it up to my next project...

[WestCoastDidds]

I'm curious how mafia got 3 NKs in one night.  Seems...hard to defeat.

Scola played the best of the mafia-aligned players, in my opinion, although MiX definitely should be MVP for ensuring their win.

I was a body guard and was guarding Space. :/ so, that is at least one more than normal.

[faust]

I'm curious how mafia got 3 NKs in one night.  Seems...hard to defeat.

Only one of the deaths was directly caused by scum actually.

[Awaclus]

scolapasta

Man, now I'm even more frustrated with how D2 played out.

[EFHW]

gah! well played everyone!

[EFHW]

How come ADK got exiled with only 3 votes, when it took 5 to exile?

[LaLight]

How come ADK got exiled with only 3 votes, when it took 5 to exile?

Curfew - doublehated

also, million sorries to you, WCD.

[MiX]

How come ADK got exiled with only 3 votes, when it took 5 to exile?

They were double-hated: once from blocking the Viper QT, and another for redirecting from me.

I knew this, and I was also double-hated (cylon tester and pick VP) which is why I was in a hurry. Saying it publicly meant scum could quickhammer.

[LaLight]

oh, sorry, got you mixed up.

WCD, million sorries to you. EFHW, a bit less sorries. I was sure you both were scum with MiX and this just proves me unable to read people again

[LaLight]

MiX, I'm sorry, but once again I think your playstyle hurt town. This happened before, this happens again. You dominate the conversation and behave in a way that no one wants to follow you and has any strength to argue with you.

[EFHW]

I'm looking at Day 1 plurality exile and the admiral role as changes

Agree on both.

I like the admiral change, but not plurality exile. I never see that as good for town. How about adding another player?

[A Drowned Kernel]

I'm looking at Day 1 plurality exile and the admiral role as changes

Agree on both.

I like the admiral change, but not plurality exile. I never see that as good for town. How about adding another player?

I tend not to like larger games and would rather not make this one any larger than it is

[EFHW]

Then I suggest removing a card from the E.O. deck. Special counsel also looks interesting.

[LaLight]

I love the idea of 28 days D1 just because it's really fun, but I know no one will support me.

other than that Admiral, Course for Cobol and Special Counsel all sound good to me

[A Drowned Kernel]

I wouldn't mind getting rid of civilian jurisdiction :P

[LaLight]

I wouldn't mind getting rid of civilian jurisdiction :P

I'd get rid of Isolate a Colonial One :P

[EFHW]

I wouldn't mind getting rid of civilian jurisdiction

I was thinking of curfew. Civilian Jurisdiction caused us trouble but we got information, too.

[MiX]

I wouldn't mind getting rid of civilian jurisdiction

I was thinking of curfew. Civilian Jurisdiction caused us trouble but we got information, too.

Now that we know what it does, it might not backfire!

I wouldn't mind getting rid of civilian jurisdiction

I'd get rid of Isolate a Colonial One

Boo. It does help town! Reducing the number of people that can be picked with night actions overall helps town.

I think Admiral's not a good pick: it removes a QT (Colonial One). And who doesn't like QTs? I'm biased, but I really just want to give mathdude president again.

[scolapasta]

WOOOOOOHOOOOOOO!!

Will catch up on everything posted later. A few quick questions:

Will scum QT be made public or kept private until alter?
Will individual QTs be made public or kept private until alter?

I assume later, at least for the individuals.

Is there a deadline for this vote of game change? I don't have a lot of time today.

Also, did I say WOOHOO!!!!! yet?

[MiX]

Woo.

I asked that during the game, only Speccy will be made public. I guess faust can answer here too.

Oh, I guess since scum talked, my top 3 scum reads were actually scum. But they were individual scumreads, and honestly didn't matter as I would've died if the game kept going, probably.

[faust]

I wouldn't mind getting rid of civilian jurisdiction

I'd get rid of Isolate a Colonial One

I meant to rebalance that card, so it will likely change. But the basic functionality will of course still be there.

[MiX]

I wouldn't mind getting rid of civilian jurisdiction

I'd get rid of Isolate a Colonial One

I meant to rebalance that card, so it will likely change. But the basic functionality will of course still be there.

Nooooo, my spam!

Can you say what you're thinking about it?

[faust]

Will scum QT be made public or kept private until alter?
Will individual QTs be made public or kept private until alter?

No QTs will be made public until the last game has concluded, other than the spectator QTs. Individual QTs will probably persist over the course of the campaign.

Is there a deadline for this vote of game change? I don't have a lot of time today.

I'll give it a week or so. We're not in a hurry.

[faust]

I wouldn't mind getting rid of civilian jurisdiction

I'd get rid of Isolate a Colonial One

I meant to rebalance that card, so it will likely change. But the basic functionality will of course still be there.

Nooooo, my spam!

Can you say what you're thinking about it?

make it a bit less attractive to choose for the President... probably either by making them voteless for the Day or by shutting down the Colonial One QT.

[MiX]

I wouldn't mind getting rid of civilian jurisdiction

I'd get rid of Isolate a Colonial One

I meant to rebalance that card, so it will likely change. But the basic functionality will of course still be there.

Nooooo, my spam!

Can you say what you're thinking about it?

make it a bit less attractive to choose for the President... probably either by making them voteless for the Day or by shutting down the Colonial One QT.

As someone that wanted to pick it every time, I would suggest voteless: closing the QT doesn't really hurt, given you have 72 hours before picking an order anyway. And it makes sense to just ignore the day completely if you can also ignore the night.

[mathdude]

Okay, does anyone want to shed light on what happened to me D1, that I didn't even make it to the vote?  I'm guessing some sort of random outcome, based on a day-target ability, and I got really unlucky?

As for game modifications available, my biased opinion says Separate military from government since my presidency got me nowhere useful, nor did my QT.  Putting a little control over a president seems helpful.  I may also be interested in Term limits or the new EO card Course for Kobol even though I have no idea what that would do.  I'm also likely going to switch characters, unless someone can give me a good reason to stick with the one I had.

[Jack Rudd]

I like the idea of separate military from government.

[MiX]

Okay, does anyone want to shed light on what happened to me D1, that I didn't even make it to the vote?  I'm guessing some sort of random outcome, based on a day-target ability, and I got really unlucky?

As for game modifications available, my biased opinion says Separate military from government since my presidency got me nowhere useful, nor did my QT.  Putting a little control over a president seems helpful.  I may also be interested in Term limits or the new EO card Course for Kobol even though I have no idea what that would do.  I'm also likely going to switch characters, unless someone can give me a good reason to stick with the one I had.

I can vouch for the presidency being extremely useful...to get everyone against me Still, having a QT was overall helpful.

I was thinking of making you VP (in case I die early), and then use whatever new power people will vote for that makes me lose presidency to give it to you (in case I don't die early).

I'm assuming talking about these things is fine, right? In terms of starting powers, it seems I'm the only person that (is publicly known to) starts with something.


Oh, while we're talking about presidential powers, is everyone okay with me killing Robz's character? I want to blame them (the character) for the misexile (also it's fun for flavor since I pushed Robz), and I don't think Robz's keeping it.

[scolapasta]

I get where you're coming from here, but there's something I've mentioned before that's relevant: I don't have to be alive in order to win, so scum can't make me collaborate just by threatening to kill me

Sorry, one more, didn't post my response to this -- clearly a survivor would be expected to lie about this, no?  I mean, that's "how to survive as a survivor" 101.

Channeling my inner LaLight (RIP), this is an AMAZING point.

Is there any kind of double or team survivor role? (i.e. could they both be survivors?)

scola, what did you mean here about channeling inner LaLight?

Oh, just by saying "this is an AMAZING point." I feel like you often (and correctly) remark on things like this and the exuberance always makes me smile.

That was fun. Not the best outcome for me, I lost out on some legacy points, but it was interesting to play such an odd win condition

For legacy reasons, l'll keep it a mystery

Keep what a mystery?  The rule changes?  I'm fairly sure those would have to be public.

I was talking about mix's question about my legacy points

So just to understand, you were not actually a Survivor? But you haven't (and won't) reveal what it was?

@Mafia team: why didn't you recruit me?  I thought I was pretty clearly signaling to you.

I *knew* there had to be another why to get a partner! How could we have recruited you, by target you? I think generally, you're anti-MiX ness was just to valuable to risk. I mean, I was sure Dylan was going to get brigged that last day until you posted.

Jack did well to use newbie status to survive.  I would definitely have coached him to do the same.  That was just smart play.

Yes. This. I want to see town!Jack so much right now.

Same here.

scolapasta

Man, now I'm even more frustrated with how D2 played out.

I'm still not sure how I survived after this played out. Are you willing to say now why you were so sure I was scum? Did you have an actual result on me?

How come ADK got exiled with only 3 votes, when it took 5 to exile?

They were double-hated: once from blocking the Viper QT, and another for redirecting from me.

I knew this, and I was also double-hated (cylon tester and pick VP) which is why I was in a hurry. Saying it publicly meant scum could quickhammer.

Darn - how did I not realize you were double hated?? I knew you had to have picked the VP, but forgot about the cylon test.

MiX, I'm sorry, but once again I think your playstyle hurt town. This happened before, this happens again. You dominate the conversation and behave in a way that no one wants to follow you and has any strength to argue with you.

[MiX]

I could say what alignment ADK had, they told me that much. But isn't it cooler if it's mysterious instead?

[Awaclus]

I'm still not sure how I survived after this played out. Are you willing to say now why you were so sure I was scum? Did you have an actual result on me?

It's hard to fabricate scum reads on people you know aren't scum, and you were just very obviously trying to avoid doing that. I didn't have a result.

[WestCoastDidds]

How come ADK got exiled with only 3 votes, when it took 5 to exile?

Curfew - doublehated

also, million sorries to you, WCD.

❤️

[LaLight]

I get where you're coming from here, but there's something I've mentioned before that's relevant: I don't have to be alive in order to win, so scum can't make me collaborate just by threatening to kill me

Sorry, one more, didn't post my response to this -- clearly a survivor would be expected to lie about this, no?  I mean, that's "how to survive as a survivor" 101.

Channeling my inner LaLight (RIP), this is an AMAZING point.

Is there any kind of double or team survivor role? (i.e. could they both be survivors?)

scola, what did you mean here about channeling inner LaLight?

Oh, just by saying "this is an AMAZING point." I feel like you often (and correctly) remark on things like this and the exuberance always makes me smile.

oh, that's so nice of you it is me, amazingly enough!

[Dylan32]

A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one. Yeah, scola, the fact you got enough people to townread you to survive after D2 was impressive.

MiX, well-played with whatever went on with you and ADK to pick me, and I'm glad I didn't have to play another day to try to win what would have inevitably been a brutal 1v1 lol.

[MiX]

A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one. Yeah, scola, the fact you got enough people to townread you to survive after D2 was impressive.

MiX, well-played with whatever went on with you and ADK to pick me, and I'm glad I didn't have to play another day to try to win what would have inevitably been a brutal 1v1 lol.

"Can you pick Dylan?"

"Sure, I was gonna pick ash but k"

If I knew what result I was going to get, I would've probably not swapped at all, lol.

[EFHW]

If ADK hadn't self voted, we might still have exiled Jack or Dylan. Guess that's why ash is saying exile all 3rd parties.

[Dylan32]

If ADK hadn't self voted, we might still have exiled Jack or Dylan. Guess that's why ash is saying exile all 3rd parties.

Yeah, that's a pretty strong piece of evidence for that stance lol

[MiX]

If ADK hadn't self voted, we might still have exiled Jack or Dylan. Guess that's why ash is saying exile all 3rd parties.

ADK can't self-hammer if you don't vote for them. That's why I didn't want to vote for them lol.

Besides, scum can hammer too.

What needed to happen was a quickhammer on scum by town. Unfortunately, that feat is basically impossible, and was never going to happen with how fragmented town was.

[A Drowned Kernel]

I could say what alignment ADK had, they told me that much. But isn't it cooler if it's mysterious instead?

You could also only say as much as I told you ;)

[MiX]

MiX, I'm sorry, but once again I think your playstyle hurt town. This happened before, this happens again. You dominate the conversation and behave in a way that no one wants to follow you and has any strength to argue with you.

Yes. Yes. I need to change. I promise I'll be a better (town) player next time. I still like this playstyle early in the game, like D1, but I need to drastically change this when it gets to solving time. I think I'm too stuck in "convince everyone I'm right" and I should be in "solve the game in such a way that all of town agrees who the scum team is, together".

Someone quote this post in a future game. Thankfully I'm not in any ongoing games so I can say this

[A Drowned Kernel]

That was fun. Not the best outcome for me, I lost out on some legacy points, but it was interesting to play such an odd win condition

For legacy reasons, l'll keep it a mystery

Keep what a mystery?  The rule changes?  I'm fairly sure those would have to be public.

I was talking about mix's question about my legacy points

So just to understand, you were not actually a Survivor? But you haven't (and won't) reveal what it was?

I died and still won, so yeah, not a survivor. I have legacy stuff that I assume persists between games that makes me want to keep my exact win condition a mystery. And also having it be a mystery is fun

[ashersky]

@scola -- I don't know how you could have recruited me; I assumed the team knew.

@ADK -- you can switch characters and then not worry about the legacy stuff.

[scolapasta]

I died and still won, so yeah, not a survivor. I have legacy stuff that I assume persists between games that makes me want to keep my exact win condition a mystery. And also having it be a mystery is fun

Oh yeah, duh. Good point.

[A Drowned Kernel]

@scola -- I don't know how you could have recruited me; I assumed the team knew.

@ADK -- you can switch characters and then not worry about the legacy stuff.

That sounds lame. Unless everyone agrees to switch characters every single game just so we can force faust to pull out ever obscurer characters from the site

[A Drowned Kernel]

Show*

[MiX]

@scola -- I don't know how you could have recruited me; I assumed the team knew.

@ADK -- you can switch characters and then not worry about the legacy stuff.

That sounds lame. Unless everyone agrees to switch characters every single game just so we can force faust to pull out ever obscurer characters from the site

You can swap to characters other people have been. But that just makes things more boring, right?

I think ash is just saying that if you really want to say what was going on with your objectives, there is a way that doesn't hurt you in the long run. At least, that's what I thought, anyway.

[EFHW]

MiX,  how much was your personal goal affecting your play?

[EFHW]

If ADK hadn't self voted, we might still have exiled Jack or Dylan. Guess that's why ash is saying exile all 3rd parties.

ADK can't self-hammer if you don't vote for them. That's why I didn't want to vote for them lol.

Besides, scum can hammer too.

What needed to happen was a quickhammer on scum by town. Unfortunately, that feat is basically impossible, and was never going to happen with how fragmented town was.

You were certain ADK was playing for town, but they weren't.

[MiX]

MiX,  how much was your personal goal affecting your play?

Too much, but I also grouped in the fact that I got passive information that was probably going to scale in usefulness, so I was valuing my life very highly. I also had the information that ADK claimed third-party, which I felt was important for town to have.

If ADK hadn't self voted, we might still have exiled Jack or Dylan. Guess that's why ash is saying exile all 3rd parties.

ADK can't self-hammer if you don't vote for them. That's why I didn't want to vote for them lol.

Besides, scum can hammer too.

What needed to happen was a quickhammer on scum by town. Unfortunately, that feat is basically impossible, and was never going to happen with how fragmented town was.

You were certain ADK was playing for town, but they weren't.

They could've just voted for me last day if they wanted to play for scum. Maybe their true win condition didn't allow for that, but what they claimed to me did. The fact they still voted Dylan showed their loyalty.

[MiX]

Well, I want to see what happens when someone dies, so I'll be killing Callandra Henderson (Robz's character) if no one objects to it in 2 IRL days.

[mathdude]

Okay, does anyone want to shed light on what happened to me D1, that I didn't even make it to the vote?  I'm guessing some sort of random outcome, based on a day-target ability, and I got really unlucky?

Anyone?

[A Drowned Kernel]

MiX,  how much was your personal goal affecting your play?

Too much, but I also grouped in the fact that I got passive information that was probably going to scale in usefulness, so I was valuing my life very highly. I also had the information that ADK claimed third-party, which I felt was important for town to have.

If ADK hadn't self voted, we might still have exiled Jack or Dylan. Guess that's why ash is saying exile all 3rd parties.

ADK can't self-hammer if you don't vote for them. That's why I didn't want to vote for them lol.

Besides, scum can hammer too.

What needed to happen was a quickhammer on scum by town. Unfortunately, that feat is basically impossible, and was never going to happen with how fragmented town was.

You were certain ADK was playing for town, but they weren't.

They could've just voted for me last day if they wanted to play for scum. Maybe their true win condition didn't allow for that, but what they claimed to me did. The fact they still voted Dylan showed their loyalty.

Well I probably would have hammered you if you gotten to X-1

I was genuinely playing for town pretty much until Robz flipped town, at that point I was assuming that I was going to have to try and win with scum

[MiX]

Yes, and I would've hammered you if we were both at X-1 too. That doesn't mean you didn't go "hey btw mix is double hated so just vote for him and win". It seemed that, between a win and a win, you were favouring town. And that's exactly what town needed from you.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Yes, and I would've hammered you if we were both at X-1 too. That doesn't mean you didn't go "hey btw mix is double hated so just vote for him and win". It seemed that, between a win and a win, you were favouring town. And that's exactly what town needed from you.

Well I didn't know for sure you were double-hated since I don't think you ever told me explicitly that your abilities counted as actions

[Dylan32]

Okay, does anyone want to shed light on what happened to me D1, that I didn't even make it to the vote?  I'm guessing some sort of random outcome, based on a day-target ability, and I got really unlucky?

Anyone?

I'm not sure if this mechanic will be in future seasons or not so I don't want to say much about what happened, but you being president had a lot to do with it.

[mathdude]

Okay, does anyone want to shed light on what happened to me D1, that I didn't even make it to the vote?  I'm guessing some sort of random outcome, based on a day-target ability, and I got really unlucky?

Anyone?

I'm not sure if this mechanic will be in future seasons or not so I don't want to say much about what happened, but you being president had a lot to do with it.

So an assassination.... or at least an attempted one that ended up being successful.

[Dylan32]

I mean, congrats mafia, I guess.

Although, and no offense meant, but town lost this game way more than mafia won it.  And I'm accepting any blame that is to go around, as I assume I took the loss as town here since I wasn't listed in the winning players list.

@Mafia team: why didn't you recruit me?  I thought I was pretty clearly signaling to you.

Wait, what were you that you could be recruited if not a straight up traitor?  We were not actually aware of the potential for anyone to be recruited by way of NK. The only person that we knew had the chance to join us was Awaclus.  But with you, I did actually note in the scum QT the last night (assuming I was going to be the next exile) to watch out for you going forwards, because you might very well be 3rd party because you didn't read like normal town to me, so if the game had gone longer maybe you would have been.

[EFHW]

@scola -- I don't know how you could have recruited me; I assumed the team knew.

@ADK -- you can switch characters and then not worry about the legacy stuff.

So what was all the "you have to exile me now" stuff about?

[Dylan32]

@scola -- I don't know how you could have recruited me; I assumed the team knew.

@ADK -- you can switch characters and then not worry about the legacy stuff.

So what was all the "you have to exile me now" stuff about?

Well, with hindsight, he was town-aligned, but knew that if he was recruited he would join us, and begging to be exiled as town was a very clear way of signaling that we should recruit him. Obviously, we kind of overlooked that very obvious possibility lol.

[faust]

It is time for the official vote! All players may vote for a modification by posting Vote: [Option]. Those who won the game may also post Runner-up. [Option]. The deadline for votes is May 04, 2021, 04:00:00 am.

When we reach the deadline, or when everyone placed a vote (whichever happens first), the modification that received the most votes will be done. Then, the modification that received the most votes from winners will be done. If any winner voted for the modification already done by everyone, then their runner-up vote will be considered instead.

The deadline for the Presidential Execution is the same, as is the deadline for switching characters. I would like for everyone to post in their personal QT to confirm they are willing to continue to the second season, or let me know if that is not the case.

Modification Vote Count 0

Not Voting (14): Jack Rudd, SpaceAnemone, WestCoastDidds, MiX, EFHW, scolapasta, LaLight, Dylan32, A Drowned Kernel, Swowl, Robz888, ashersky, Awaclus, mathdude

[ashersky]

@scola -- I don't know how you could have recruited me; I assumed the team knew.

@ADK -- you can switch characters and then not worry about the legacy stuff.

So what was all the "you have to exile me now" stuff about?

Well, with hindsight, he was town-aligned, but knew that if he was recruited he would join us, and begging to be exiled as town was a very clear way of signaling that we should recruit him. Obviously, we kind of overlooked that very obvious possibility lol.

I was town, I figured I was going to be mafia, thought it was in town's best interest to exile me.  Basically the same as how we should have exiled ADK as 3rd party.

Mafia never recruited me, so it didn't matter in the end.

I was not a traitor, as I was not cylon-aligned from the beginning.  Considering my character and the Cylon test result (later explained to be falsified by mafia!MiX), plus Awaclus's confirmation of alignment-switching, I was guessing that the mafia team could recruit me.  I did not have mod confirmation of that fact.

Also, if the Cylon test was at least in part town controlled, town should have said something.

[ashersky]

vote: day 1 plurality exile

[LaLight]

vote: Add a card "Course for Kobol" into the deck

[MiX]

@scola -- I don't know how you could have recruited me; I assumed the team knew.

@ADK -- you can switch characters and then not worry about the legacy stuff.

So what was all the "you have to exile me now" stuff about?

Well, with hindsight, he was town-aligned, but knew that if he was recruited he would join us, and begging to be exiled as town was a very clear way of signaling that we should recruit him. Obviously, we kind of overlooked that very obvious possibility lol.

I was town, I figured I was going to be mafia, thought it was in town's best interest to exile me.  Basically the same as how we should have exiled ADK as 3rd party.

Mafia never recruited me, so it didn't matter in the end.

I was not a traitor, as I was not cylon-aligned from the beginning.  Considering my character and the Cylon test result (later explained to be falsified by mafia!MiX), plus Awaclus's confirmation of alignment-switching, I was guessing that the mafia team could recruit me.  I did not have mod confirmation of that fact.

Also, if the Cylon test was at least in part town controlled, town should have said something.

I was telling you not to trust the cylon result over and over, maybe I should've just claimed the power publicly.

Although it is possible you could be recruited (as I don't know your entire claim, maybe your other power alludes to that more), I don't think anyone ended up knowing if that was the case. Which is...interesting. Given every other town player died but us, there's a real chance you were a hidden traitor, despite how bastard-y that may look.

There's so many unknown things about this setup. I love and hate that.

vote: Add a card "Course for Kobol" into the deck

Vote: Add Course for Kobol

Self-preservation (because I don't want both modifications to hurt the president )

[LaLight]

I am almost 99% sure that ash wasn't a hidden traitor. Hidden traitor can not exist in a non-bastard game and if he would have a chance to switch alignments, he would be told this might've happened. I might try asking faust

faust, is it possible to switch alignments in this game in a way that is not known to a player before the start of the game?

for instance, can there be a situation in which I have a town pm and then, say, on N3 it says "you are now in a scum team, here's your QT"?

[faust]

I am almost 99% sure that ash wasn't a hidden traitor. Hidden traitor can not exist in a non-bastard game and if he would have a chance to switch alignments, he would be told this might've happened. I might try asking faust

faust, is it possible to switch alignments in this game in a way that is not known to a player before the start of the game?

for instance, can there be a situation in which I have a town pm and then, say, on N3 it says "you are now in a scum team, here's your QT"?

Yes.

[MiX]

This seems to be in line with what Awaclus claimed, and he flipped town, so there's no reason to believe he was lying.

It's like we're still playing the game! Except scum don't lie, they just don't tell the truth now.

[LaLight]

It's like we're still playing the game! Except scum don't lie, they just don't tell the truth now.

that is actually cool

[LaLight]

I am almost 99% sure that ash wasn't a hidden traitor. Hidden traitor can not exist in a non-bastard game and if he would have a chance to switch alignments, he would be told this might've happened. I might try asking faust

faust, is it possible to switch alignments in this game in a way that is not known to a player before the start of the game?

for instance, can there be a situation in which I have a town pm and then, say, on N3 it says "you are now in a scum team, here's your QT"?

Yes.

that's.. weird to be honest.

[Awaclus]

Vote: Day 1 plurality exile

[Jack Rudd]

Vote: Separate Military from Government

Runner-up: Course for Kobol

[scolapasta]

This seems to be in line with what Awaclus claimed, and he flipped town, so there's no reason to believe he was lying.

It's like we're still playing the game! Except scum don't lie, they just don't tell the truth now.

This feels scummy:

Vote: MiX

[MiX]

This seems to be in line with what Awaclus claimed, and he flipped town, so there's no reason to believe he was lying.

It's like we're still playing the game! Except scum don't lie, they just don't tell the truth now.

This feels scummy:

Vote: MiX

I am not a modification option, but I'm flattered.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Vote: Day 1 Plurality Exile

[mathdude]

Vote: Separate Military from Government

Sorry Mix.  Not a fan of the way things played out.

[MiX]

Vote: Separate Military from Government

Sorry Mix.  Not a fan of the way things played out.

But math. You would be vice president. :C

[Dylan32]

With the way things went, I don't know why nobody is considering the ability to call an election for the president. I think that would be more directly beneficial than basically giving the admiral veto power over a single order, which will practically be the most anti-town option, which in theory is no different than what a president would do with a VP.

Vote: Vote of confidence
Runner Up: Special Counsel

[MiX]

With the way things went, I don't know why nobody is considering the ability to call an election for the president. I think that would be more directly beneficial than basically giving the admiral veto power over a single order, which will practically be the most anti-town option, which in theory is no different than what a president would do with a VP.

Vote: Vote of confidence
Runner Up: Special Counsel

Hmm, because the president has to choose that. And why would they?

[Dylan32]

With the way things went, I don't know why nobody is considering the ability to call an election for the president. I think that would be more directly beneficial than basically giving the admiral veto power over a single order, which will practically be the most anti-town option, which in theory is no different than what a president would do with a VP.

Vote: Vote of confidence
Runner Up: Special Counsel

Hmm, because the president has to choose that. And why would they?

Wait, good point. Forgot about that one tiny little detail lol

[Dylan32]

Vote: Special Counsel
Vote: Runner up: Course for Kobol

[Dylan32]

Vote: Special Counsel
Vote: Runner up: Course for Kobol

EBWOP
Runner up: Course for Kobol

[scolapasta]

Vote: Special Counsel
Vote: Runner up: Course for Kobol

EBWOP
Runner up: Course for Kobol

Well, what about Term Limits?

[mathdude]

Vote: Separate Military from Government

Sorry Mix.  Not a fan of the way things played out.

But math. You would be vice president. :C

And I don't think I want that.

[Dylan32]

Vote: Special Counsel
Vote: Runner up: Course for Kobol

EBWOP
Runner up: Course for Kobol

Well, what about Term Limits?

Thought about it, but in the event we get a (virtual) IC as president, it'd probably be better to be able to keep them in the office as long as possible.

It's kind of weird thinking about these choices trying to figure out what is best for town since that's probably the most likely role to draw after playing the first game as scum lol.

[EFHW]

Vote: Special Counsel
Runner up: Separate Military from Government

[EFHW]

Vote: Special Counsel
Vote: Runner up: Course for Kobol

EBWOP
Runner up: Course for Kobol

Well, what about Term Limits?

Thought about it, but in the event we get a (virtual) IC as president, it'd probably be better to be able to keep them in the office as long as possible.

It's kind of weird thinking about these choices trying to figure out what is best for town since that's probably the most likely role to draw after playing the first game as scum lol.

Alignments should still be random, so you have the same chance as you did before of drawing a scum role.

[Swowl]

This is actually an insanely interesting mechanic that is happening right now - assuming we are allowed to discuss before voting.

Faust - Is that accurate, can we discuss openly until deadline?

But assuming it is... Everything everyone says is literally NAI 100%, which is just crazy weird to be like on this forum and not have to wonder if anyone is gaming. Unless MiX is still Prez at start of game for sure... then I guess it changes things.

I like special counsel or day 1 plurality exile personally.

[scolapasta]

Yeah, it's a weird place to ne, having been scum, knowing odds wise will be likely town, but even if scum, will have different partners. i.e. I still feel partners with Jack and Dylan, even though gamewise there's absolutely no reason to be.

[MiX]

If I keep my character I start as President. And I'm keeping my character, it's so perfect. So I'm the most biased person here, and even now I'm playing to win.

I also think I have less than random odds of being town so if anyone's scum, it would be me.

Yeah, it's a weird place to ne, having been scum, knowing odds wise will be likely town, but even if scum, will have different partners. i.e. I still feel partners with Jack and Dylan, even though gamewise there's absolutely no reason to be.

Scum and ADK are partners, since you have a special vote. So it's not too strange.

[MiX]

Also, I expect daily vote counts, or at least the ability to change a vote: I am partners with the president-hurting options and I don't want them voted on, and will make a counterwagon if need be.

[Dylan32]

EFHW, I don’t think you get to pick a runner up. I believe only people that won season 1 can do that.

[EFHW]

EFHW, I don’t think you get to pick a runner up. I believe only people that won season 1 can do that.

Oh! Ok.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Runner up: Course for Kobol

[faust]

Modification Vote Count 1

Day 1 Plurality Exile (3): ashersky, Awaclus, A Drowned Kernel
Course for Kobol (2): LaLight, MiX, (Jack Rudd), (Dylan32), (A Drowned Kernel)
Separate Military from Government (2): Jack Rudd, mathdude
Special Counsel (2): Dylan32, EFHW

Not Voting (5): SpaceAnemone, WestCoastDidds, scolapasta, Swowl, Robz888

Voting closes May 04, 2021, 04:00:00 am. Runner-up votes are in brackets.

Faust - Is that accurate, can we discuss openly until deadline?

Yes. Discuss away!

[MiX]

President Execution: Calandra Henderson

President Execution: Robz

Depending on which one's what I should say.

[faust]

President Execution: Calandra Henderson

President Execution: Robz

Depending on which one's what I should say.

Confirmed. The order will be resolved once voting has concluded.

[EFHW]

What is the appeal of 1st day plurality exile? I feel like it makes scumhunting harder and the day less interesting.

[Swowl]

What is the appeal of 1st day plurality exile? I feel like it makes scumhunting harder and the day less interesting.

lol remember that game we just played where we couldn't find skum because we had no exiles for 2 days? that

[MiX]

What is the appeal of 1st day plurality exile? I feel like it makes scumhunting harder and the day less interesting.

lol remember that game we just played where we couldn't find skum because we had no exiles for 2 days? that

I think we can vow to never do that again, at least in this legacy.

[Swowl]

Sorry if I missed it and this was asked already...

Regarding the Admiral Role.
1. Do they have a QT with Prez?
2. Does the Admiral take over as prez if prez dies, or is there an election?

[Swowl]

I do not understand the purpose of Kobol, other than I guess no one knows what turning points like really do so it is neutral...

I think special cons could be a good pick, but I wanna confirm the distinctions regarding the Admiral. That one could also be a winner.

[EFHW]

What is the appeal of 1st day plurality exile? I feel like it makes scumhunting harder and the day less interesting.

lol remember that game we just played where we couldn't find skum because we had no exiles for 2 days? that

That was an anomaly and not likely to happen again. Anyone else?

[Dylan32]

What is the appeal of 1st day plurality exile? I feel like it makes scumhunting harder and the day less interesting.

lol remember that game we just played where we couldn't find skum because we had no exiles for 2 days? that

That was an anomaly and not likely to happen again. Anyone else?

Yeah, I feel like a lot of people are voting for that based solely on this outlier.

[faust]

Sorry if I missed it and this was asked already...

Regarding the Admiral Role.
1. Do they have a QT with Prez?
2. Does the Admiral take over as prez if prez dies, or is there an election?

Sorry, I missed those questions.

1. No.
2. The admiral does not become President. The death of the president will trigger the turning point of "roles of President and Vice President both unassigned".

[WestCoastDidds]

Vote: Special counsel

[faust]

Modification Vote Count 2

Day 1 Plurality Exile (3): ashersky, Awaclus, A Drowned Kernel
Course for Kobol (2): LaLight, MiX, (Jack Rudd), (Dylan32), (A Drowned Kernel)
Separate Military from Government (2): Jack Rudd, mathdude
Special Counsel (3): Dylan32, EFHW, WestCoastDidds

Not Voting (4): SpaceAnemone, scolapasta, Swowl, Robz888

Voting closes May 04, 2021, 04:00:00 am. This is in less than 20 hours. Runner-up votes are in brackets.

[scolapasta]

More votes gives more info, c'mon people, let's get some terms limits in! Plus this way MiX isn't president all of Season1 and 2!

(I forget who said something about if the president was an IC but what are the chances if that)

Vote: Term Limits
Runner up: Separate military from government

[MiX]

More votes gives more info, c'mon people, let's get some terms limits in! Plus this way MiX isn't president all of Season1 and 2!

(I forget who said something about if the president was an IC but what are the chances if that)

Vote: Term Limits
Runner up: Separate military from government

They are a MiC. Obviously. I will unconditionally townread whoever starts with President.

[scolapasta]

Do we get to find out if any characters completed their character arcs? i.e. a "current score" of sorts? And if we do, do we get to know what those arcs were?

[Swowl]

Well I wanna make sure I get one down.

Vote: Special Counsel

[faust]

Do we get to find out if any characters completed their character arcs? i.e. a "current score" of sorts? And if we do, do we get to know what those arcs were?

No. You will only find out if your character completed their arc. Scores are secret.

[faust]

Final Modification Vote Count

Day 1 Plurality Exile (3): ashersky, Awaclus, A Drowned Kernel
Course for Kobol (2): LaLight, MiX, (Jack Rudd), (Dylan32), (A Drowned Kernel)
Separate Military from Government (2): Jack Rudd, mathdude, (scolapasta)
Special Counsel (4): Dylan32, EFHW, WestCoastDidds, Swowl
Term limits (1): scolapasta

Not Voting (2): SpaceAnemone, Robz888

[LaLight]

boooooring

[LaLight]

oh wait, I thought plurality lynch won

[LaLight]

special counsil is ok, I guess, but Course for Kobol promises us mysterious cool things!

[Awaclus]

>inb4 everyone is completely absent for the first 2 days again

[Dylan32]

If D1 ends without an exile, the exile pool D2 are those who ended the day not voting lol

[ashersky]

You all realize that Special Counsel is a terrible, terrible option for town, right?

There's a reason "skip a day" is a punishment in mafia game design.

[scolapasta]

You all realize that Special Counsel is a terrible, terrible option for town, right?

There's a reason "skip a day" is a punishment in mafia game design.

Maybe everyone is just hoping they'll be scum next time around...

[faust]

The player vote has been decided to be Special Counsel!

The winner's vote is a 4-way tie among Day 1 plurality, Course for Kobol, Separate Military from government and Term limits.

The outcome was randomized to be Separate Military from government. (I will probably try to come up with a better voting system in the future, with weighted votes).

The traitor and insurrectionist Callandra Henderson has been sentenced to death by the President. This unprecedented and constitutionally dubious move has caused outrage all across the fleet.

The character of Callandra Henderson has been removed from the campaign! The following card is shuffled into the executive order deck:

Insurrection
When you draw this, discard it and draw a new card. The third time an Insurrection is drawn, the current President has 72 hours to Step down. If they don't, trigger a turning point.

[Dylan32]

Wait, how was the winner's vote a tie? As I look at it, Day 1 plurality had ADK only, Kobol had 3/4 of the winner's runner up votes, separate military had 1 vote and 1 runner up vote, and term limits had 1 vote.

[MiX]

Wait, how was the winner's vote a tie? As I look at it, Day 1 plurality had ADK only, Kobol had 3/4 of the winner's runner up votes, separate military had 1 vote and 1 runner up vote, and term limits had 1 vote.

Runner up votes are only considered if the main vote was on the majority's vote (in this case, in Special Counsel).

[Dylan32]

Wait, how was the winner's vote a tie? As I look at it, Day 1 plurality had ADK only, Kobol had 3/4 of the winner's runner up votes, separate military had 1 vote and 1 runner up vote, and term limits had 1 vote.

Runner up votes are only considered if the main vote was on the majority's vote (in this case, in Special Counsel).

Yeah, just went back and looked and realized that. Yeah, in the original post announcing the votes, it said there would be one vote for everyone, then another round of voting just for the winners, so I thought the runner up votes were supposed to be that 2nd round of voting basically. But it's just completely different than what was originally said. ok.

[Dylan32]

By "original post announcing the votes," I meant this one:

With the game concluded, it is time to choose end-of-game modifications to the rules. There will be one communal vote on changes, and afterwards another vote only among the winners. The modifications to get the most votes will affect future games. You may vote No Change. Here are the possible modifications:

Game Modifications available

--snip--

bold added

[mathdude]

It is time for the official vote! All players may vote for a modification by posting Vote: [Option]. Those who won the game may also post Runner-up. [Option]. The deadline for votes is May 04, 2021, 04:00:00 am.

When we reach the deadline, or when everyone placed a vote (whichever happens first), the modification that received the most votes will be done. Then, the modification that received the most votes from winners will be done. If any winner voted for the modification already done by everyone, then their runner-up vote will be considered instead.

And this was the clarification given when voting officially started... pretty clear here, I'd say.

[Dylan32]

Yeah, I saw that at the same time mix answered my original question, and I was just pointing out the disconnect that I saw. The latter version feels like a lot weaker of a reward for the winners than what the first post made it sound like.

[mathdude]

If the winners were around just before deadline, to adjust votes as needed, there would have been almost no difference between the two interpretations.

[Dylan32]

If the winners were around just before deadline, to adjust votes as needed, there would have been almost no difference between the two interpretations.

I mean, by even having to think about moving votes like that it's inherently very different, so this doesn't mean much. But it really doesn't matter now.

To be clear, I'm not asking faust to justify, change, or do anything, so no one needs to defend or explain anything. I overlooked the most recent instruction, and so the results didn't match my expectations based on the votes. It was clearly done correctly according to the most direct instructions, so I explained why I even raised the question in the first place and that it was my mistake based on reading a much earlier post. It's really no big deal. And besides, faust said he might look into different methods of voting in future rounds anyway, so if anything, just consider my comments as feedback to be considered in the future.

I think my only issue with the votes this round at all would be not considering the alternate votes as the method of breaking the tie as opposed to random roll, but I do like consolidating everything into one voting process instead of dragging it out with two distinct votes.

[scolapasta]

Dragging out wouldn't be so bad, though, since we're not starting S2 until Memento is done (or at least, much further along). And I'll assume that will likely be the case between every season break.

(I also misread the instructions, but in a different way; regardless, I think these changes will be fun)