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[Swowl]

Vote Count 2.2:

MiX (3): SpaceAnenome, Dylan32, gkrieg
EFHW (2): WestCoastDidds, MiX
gkrieg (1): faust
Not Voting (3): EFHW, Joth, Ashersky

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to Exile.
Day 2 ends Saturday, March 6th at 5:55pm Forum Time.

[MiX]

Just reread the game.

Chum to scum:

Space
joth
EFHW
ash
faust
Didds
Dylan
gkrieg

joth is town, ash is townie but fits in a lot of scumteams, Space is obv!town, faust is scum with ash or now, Didds is not doing much but then again she's tunneling EFHW less than I usually am, EFHW is town, Dylan's townie with a lot of bad reads and very scummy pushes that make him more scum than town, gkrieg hasn't done anything that town does yet.

Vote: gkrieg

[MiX]

Just reread the game.

Chum to scum:

Space
joth
EFHW
ash
faust
Didds
Dylan
gkrieg

joth is town, ash is townie but fits in a lot of scumteams, Space is obv!town, faust is scum with ash or town, Didds is not doing much but then again she's tunneling EFHW less than I usually am, EFHW is town, Dylan's townie with a lot of bad reads and very scummy pushes that make him more scum than town, gkrieg hasn't done anything that town does yet.

Vote: gkrieg

EBWOP: I swear I haven't gone insane yet, it's just easy to write "now" instead of "town", right?

[faust]

faust is scum with ash

God I wish!

[MiX]

faust is scum with ash

God I wish!

Yeah I have a feeling that you've been posting like you really want ash to be scum with you. Maybe that's just NAI, that'd be funny, but it does work if you're scum and he's traitor. Paradoxically, I can also see the other way around.

[faust]

faust is scum with ash

God I wish!

Yeah I have a feeling that you've been posting like you really want ash to be scum with you. Maybe that's just NAI, that'd be funny, but it does work if you're scum and he's traitor. Paradoxically, I can also see the other way around.

I feel like I haven't posted about it this game. Well it wouldn't be the same if one of us is just a Traitor anyways.

[faust]

*still waiting for gkrieg and Dylan to show up. Twiddlidum.*

[SpaceAnemone]

I'm honestly not sure whether MiX's d1 case was just obvious for people other than me, or whether he's just so much work to follow that nobody else really bothers.

Definitely the latter.

I don't tend to agree with his cases, but he makes a lot of incorrect guesses before zeroing in on the right answer. So I leave a lot of room for him to do that.

@EFHW, you skipped over the direct question I asked you in the post faust was quoting from.. care to go back and answer? :-)

If you had to phrase his d1 mathdude-joth argument your own words, could you do so without re-reading now to try to piece it back together?

(Where "his" in this context refers to MiX, in case some context got lost there).

[jotheonah]

Ok, I'm going to be honest I haven't done a re-read yet, but I've been thinking about MiX.

The wagon seems, at first blush, too easy to be on scum.

But: One scum is dead and one of the remaining scum is possibly a traitor. If MiX is traitor, his partner wouldn't even know who he is, right? So MiX could be scum and have no defenders, or he has at most 1 defender. And at least one person (EFHW) has spoken up against the MiX wagon.

So maybe it's exactly easy enough.

All that said, it still seems to early in the day to put MiX at E-1 and enable a quickhammer. But I do kinda want to vote for MiX.

Didds, sell me on the EFHW wagon. I continue to not particularly see it.

[EFHW]

I'm honestly not sure whether MiX's d1 case was just obvious for people other than me, or whether he's just so much work to follow that nobody else really bothers.

Definitely the latter.

I don't tend to agree with his cases, but he makes a lot of incorrect guesses before zeroing in on the right answer. So I leave a lot of room for him to do that.

@EFHW, you skipped over the direct question I asked you in the post faust was quoting from.. care to go back and answer? :-)

If you had to phrase his d1 mathdude-joth argument your own words, could you do so without re-reading now to try to piece it back together?

(Where "his" in this context refers to MiX, in case some context got lost there).

No. I don't parse everything he says, because he tends to leave a lot of steps out. I'll try, but if it's too obscure I might just move on. I just know his method works for him, when he's not tunneling me, anyway, so I don't read it as scummy.

[WestCoastDidds]

Sorry that took a minute.

Yesterday I found EFHW scummy for laying low, then being flip with MiX, but I find her response to Space and her description of the scum ones of mathdude really off.  The EFHW wagon had no traction yesterday, and I’m not sure that will be any different today, but I’m somewhat buoyed by one of the other people who found her scummy was Robz (the other was MiX) so

Vote: EFHW

I’m not seeing why gkrieg is scummy... this week kind of snuck up on a bunch of us so im cutting all kinds of slack on activity level for now.

Can you be more specific about how I seem off?

Lots of defense, not much offense, the odd exchange with MiX.

Joth, (happy birthday!!) I’m not sure I’ve enough of a sense to sell you or anyone on EFHW, but she seems to be way less invested in scum hunting than townEFHW.  But I’m not ready to scream it from the mountaintops. Just more than I can say about anyone else at this point.

[MiX]

Ok, I'm going to be honest I haven't done a re-read yet, but I've been thinking about MiX.

The wagon seems, at first blush, too easy to be on scum.

But: One scum is dead and one of the remaining scum is possibly a traitor. If MiX is traitor, his partner wouldn't even know who he is, right? So MiX could be scum and have no defenders, or he has at most 1 defender. And at least one person (EFHW) has spoken up against the MiX wagon.

So maybe it's exactly easy enough.

All that said, it still seems to early in the day to put MiX at E-1 and enable a quickhammer. But I do kinda want to vote for MiX.

Didds, sell me on the EFHW wagon. I continue to not particularly see it.

Can you answer me this question:

If you had to name someone as scum, who would it be? And just this once, I'm fine if you think I'm that someone.

Will you do a reread today?

Do you think I'm scummy?

I'm town by the way, I can't believe anyone can see me as scum after what I did D1. Like, just reread D1 and I'm obviously town. It's kinda silly. Yes it's weird that I'm the one saying this, but it's true. It's just right there if you can read EoD1.

Did your reads, like, not change whatsoever during the night? That EFHW answer is the exact same one you gave in D1 to me.

[MiX]

No. I don't parse everything he says, because he tends to leave a lot of steps out. I'll try, but if it's too obscure I might just move on. I just know his method works for him, when he's not tunneling me, anyway, so I don't read it as scummy.

Okay.

Hey EFHW, who do you scumread currently? Who do you townread currently? Who would you vote for if you had to? What are you currently rereading? What are you doing in this Day? Cause if you have nothing to do I suggest you reread me and actually try to understand what I'm saying, it's not just rambling even if it looks like it.

I'm trying to play the game and if you just won't read my posts then why the hell do I even bother.

[jotheonah]

@MiX if you're not scum I don't know who the heck is. I am still planning to do a re-read, but I decided I didn't feel like doing one on my birthday. I'll do it tomorrow during boring meetings.

[MiX]

@MiX if you're not scum I don't know who the heck is. I am still planning to do a re-read, but I decided I didn't feel like doing one on my birthday. I'll do it tomorrow during boring meetings.

Yeah that's what I thought, why would anyone reread on their birthday, ew.

Happy birthday by the way!

[WestCoastDidds]

Mix, was any part of that for me, or was that all a question for Joth?

[MiX]

Mix, was any part of that for me, or was that all a question for Joth?

That was all for joth.

What do you think of gkrieg and Dylan? Have you reread D1?

[WestCoastDidds]

Sweet!

I have not reread D1.

I think gkrieg is towny and is I appreciate the stream of consciousness the way he recasts to the day when he has time to read. I don’t know what scummy gkrieg is like, though, so I could’ve fooled.

Dylan is playing? I don’t have much of an impression, although I do remember giving him some side eye when y’all were castigating/dismissing Joth’s response to a question as an appeal to emotion. So, I don’t have much of an opinion, and to the extent I do, it’s slightly scummy.

faust is the biggest unknown to me, right now.

[SpaceAnemone]

No. I don't parse everything he says, because he tends to leave a lot of steps out. I'll try, but if it's too obscure I might just move on. I just know his method works for him, when he's not tunneling me, anyway, so I don't read it as scummy.

Okay.

Hey EFHW, who do you scumread currently? Who do you townread currently? Who would you vote for if you had to? What are you currently rereading? What are you doing in this Day? Cause if you have nothing to do I suggest you reread me and actually try to understand what I'm saying, it's not just rambling even if it looks like it.

I'm trying to play the game and if you just won't read my posts then why the hell do I even bother.

MiX, the reason I'm asking that of EFHW is that she's defending you and even she gives up on reading you because too much of what you say just doesn't seem to make sense.

I'm really miffed that you accused me of being "low effort" when I was asking you to clarify what you'd meant, because I think I'm one of very few people who even tried. The fact I honestly made an attempt to parse what you were saying, spent/wasted time on it (depending on whether you're scum or town here) and still came up blank should tell you that other players are not able to make sense of posts like that mathdude-joth "case".

What I think from trying to put it together following all your references is that you were accusing mathdude of being the traitor because he sheeped joth at one point early in the game, which happened at some point before the mathdude post you'd actually quoted, and you thought that the obvious conclusion from that was that mathdude was a traitor purposefully sheeping mafia!joth. You never said anything of the sort, and I'd be curious whether anyone else in-game realised that that's what you were saying (if indeed it even was?!) when you raised it at the end of do. Do you see how much clearer it could have been had you actually said what you meant?

Of course, I think there's a strong chance that either you're scum sewing this level of confusion and time-wasting on purpose, or your fixation on the traitor was your way of signalling to mcmc and his buddy that you're it. If you're scum being allowed to hide behind this scummy level of meta, though, I still think we should be calling it out as bad play so you can't hide the same way next time.

[EFHW]

No. I don't parse everything he says, because he tends to leave a lot of steps out. I'll try, but if it's too obscure I might just move on. I just know his method works for him, when he's not tunneling me, anyway, so I don't read it as scummy.

Okay.

Hey EFHW, who do you scumread currently? Who do you townread currently? Who would you vote for if you had to? What are you currently rereading? What are you doing in this Day? Cause if you have nothing to do I suggest you reread me and actually try to understand what I'm saying, it's not just rambling even if it looks like it.

I'm trying to play the game and if you just won't read my posts then why the hell do I even bother.

I do read what you say. But you jump around a lot, and the logic behind your conclusions is often obscure, and chances are good you'll change your mind pretty soon, so I wait and see if it comes up again. I've read you closely enough to be townreading you. Unlike many people, I have never scumread you for your style.

I'm OMGUS scumreading Didds. Space is unusually cranky. That's probably more of a towntell than anything. Dylan, gkrieg, ash and joth could easily go either way. Townreading faust.

[ashersky]

Regarding the MiX wagon that opened today -- joth did some talking about it, but I think he may be incorrect?

The thing to me is it shot up quickly and then stalled, which feels more indicative of a wagon on mafia than a wagon on town.  If remaining mafia are already on a MiX misexile wagon, then okay, but quite often I think wagons on mafia stall more than town.

So the fact that it hit E-2 and has just hovered there seems suspect.  Sure, it could be that everyone realizes with ash in this game, an E-1 vote is basically the hammer, but I don't think everyone is thinking about that.

If MiX is mafia, his partner has started one of the other wagons, I think.  Mafia team is just in too bad a way to go for the hard bus on D2 (there are obviously players who would buck that assumption, but I am not mafia this game).

[gkrieg13]

I’ll get to this tomorrow.

[faust]

Regarding the MiX wagon that opened today -- joth did some talking about it, but I think he may be incorrect?

The thing to me is it shot up quickly and then stalled, which feels more indicative of a wagon on mafia than a wagon on town.  If remaining mafia are already on a MiX misexile wagon, then okay, but quite often I think wagons on mafia stall more than town.

So the fact that it hit E-2 and has just hovered there seems suspect.  Sure, it could be that everyone realizes with ash in this game, an E-1 vote is basically the hammer, but I don't think everyone is thinking about that.

If MiX is mafia, his partner has started one of the other wagons, I think.  Mafia team is just in too bad a way to go for the hard bus on D2 (there are obviously players who would buck that assumption, but I am not mafia this game).

This is some terrible reasoning. The whole game has stalled, not just the MiX wagon. And you made it your mission yesterday to remind everyone that you will hammer at any time.

[faust]

This game is in need of an intervention.

How does MiX make sense as scum here? What, the scumteam just decided to get two members on a mission to push through a quickexile on D1? Come on. MiX and mcmc are seasoned players, and this is terrible play. No way it happens. Believing anything else is just wishful thinking.

Now come the people who will argue that "sure, that may be true, but if MiX is the Traitor then scum would not have been aware of having 2 people on the wagon". Yeah, great, so you case is that MiX can be exactly one scum role that we don't even know is in the game? Sounds to me like a good reason to not exile him.

[ashersky]

Prior to my reminding anyone, no one had voted.  Since my reminder, players may be being careful; before that?  I doubt it.

Mafia wagons often stall is not terrible reasoning; it's a fairly normal argument that gets brought up often.  Mafia use it to their advantage often, especially in the early game, where it can be useful to have wagons that don't go anywhere on themselves.

MiX wagon stalling seems more likely to be because he is mafia than because he is town, regardless of any other external influences on voting.

Saying it stalled because too many players are AFK does not answer the question.