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[jotheonah]

I wanted to share that the specific part of mathdude's post that triggered my suspicion was what read to me as their assumption they would be alive on Day 2 to partake in activities.

You know who knows they will definitely not die at night?

Ok, this I find compelling.

Let's give vote: mathdude a try.

[ashersky]

Why even bother giving out a day pass if it can be revoked at any time? Seems like false advertising.

All sorts of stuff can be revoked at any time.  Day pass, friendship, Paris Agreement membership, title of Sexiest Man Alive according to People Magazine...

[ashersky]

I see what people are saying about mathdude's post. It is unusually directive and it seems early to feel "torn" between a lurker exile and a mild suspicion exile.

Also, what does it mean that he votes Space to prompt greater participation when I had just done that? Are two prompting votes needed?

I know he's new, but that could be why he didn't realize his post would out scum!him. If people feel strongly, I'm ok with waiting for Day 2. Right now I'll ...

vote: Mathdude

What's the scummiest place in the wagon if math's town? I'm thinking this one.

I think you are all assuming math is an expert, because he's tried very hard to appear as one. But the truth is he's a new player in terms of knowing the meta here, and you should think of him as such. The super scummy post is incredibly towny because no scum would ever risk posting it. It's probably the most honest post yet, by anyone.

This is the actual definition of MiX's style of play.  Literally making up a thing to make his top mafia read look worse.  You built a "worst place on the wagon" argument around EFHW's vote being the most recent, after you have been quasi-tunneling them for the day.  It is a bad argument, and you should apologize for making it.

It is, unfortunately, not alignment-indicative for MiX.  It's MiX-indicative.

[jotheonah]

I'm having a zoom scotch night with my father, brother, uncle and cousin so... drunk AMA is in effect.

[MiX]

I wanted to share that the specific part of mathdude's post that triggered my suspicion was what read to me as their assumption they would be alive on Day 2 to partake in activities.

You know who knows they will definitely not die at night?

A new player?

Ok, Robz has basically done nothing so far but townread people and ask naive questions and it's starting to feel off to me. I usually expect a little more robust mafia playing from one of the founding members of this playgroup. Maybe he's doing something different or just rusty from the time off, but I think he's trying to lay low and skate through day 1 and not making any particular effort to scumhunt.

Vote: Robz

I don't hate the mathdude wagon but it just seems too easy and I don't trust it.

Wait. Have you even played with Robz before? Since when does he do things D1?

What do you think of mathdude?

This is even more inexplicable.  Asking if joth is familiar with/has played mafia with Robz is like asking if Gollum is familiar with that one ring.

MiX has been around long enough to know better.  Not sure what it means, though.

It's a rhetorical question. The first one that is, the others are not.

I wanted to share that the specific part of mathdude's post that triggered my suspicion was what read to me as their assumption they would be alive on Day 2 to partake in activities.

You know who knows they will definitely not die at night?

Ok, this I find compelling.

Let's give vote: mathdude a try.

Wait, what, didn't you vote mathdude before? Why is this now a better vote if the post its based on is the same? Correct me if I'm wrong.

Why even bother giving out a day pass if it can be revoked at any time? Seems like false advertising.

All sorts of stuff can be revoked at any time.  Day pass, friendship, Paris Agreement membership, title of Sexiest Man Alive according to People Magazine...

They kinda lose meaning if you revoke them quickly too many times.

I see what people are saying about mathdude's post. It is unusually directive and it seems early to feel "torn" between a lurker exile and a mild suspicion exile.

Also, what does it mean that he votes Space to prompt greater participation when I had just done that? Are two prompting votes needed?

I know he's new, but that could be why he didn't realize his post would out scum!him. If people feel strongly, I'm ok with waiting for Day 2. Right now I'll ...

vote: Mathdude

What's the scummiest place in the wagon if math's town? I'm thinking this one.

I think you are all assuming math is an expert, because he's tried very hard to appear as one. But the truth is he's a new player in terms of knowing the meta here, and you should think of him as such. The super scummy post is incredibly towny because no scum would ever risk posting it. It's probably the most honest post yet, by anyone.

This is the actual definition of MiX's style of play.  Literally making up a thing to make his top mafia read look worse.  You built a "worst place on the wagon" argument around EFHW's vote being the most recent, after you have been quasi-tunneling them for the day.  It is a bad argument, and you should apologize for making it.

It is, unfortunately, not alignment-indicative for MiX.  It's MiX-indicative.

I don't think you should look for scum in the scummiest place in the wagon , it was just a coincidence, and also something to look at later. The argument wasn't that the vote was recent, it's that I believe it was the fourth vote, which is the middle of the wagon.

I will apologize though, it shouldn't had sounded like an argument, and I'm sorry about that. I'm not really in my game today.

[ashersky]

Time for a pops thing.

Would exile: mathdude, Robz, mcmc

Would not stop the exile of: joth, MiX, Space, EFHW, WCD

Do not want to exile: gkrieg, faust, dylan

That's way more null reads than I prefer, and I feel like I probably shoehorned at least one player into the would exile pile just to avoid even more null.

For reasoning, the mathdude stuff I've said.  I generally find that if the Brothers KaraMcRobz are buddying each other, they are often not of the same alignment.

[jotheonah]

Wait, what, didn't you vote mathdude before? Why is this now a better vote if the post its based on is the same? Correct me if I'm wrong.

You're wrong. I expressed tentative hypothetical support for the wagon but have not joined it before now.

[jotheonah]

Brothers KaraMcRobz

This is very good.

[MiX]

In fact, mcmc really does seem to double down on his case against Joth, even though he acknowledged that Joth is posting a lot. I think that's a weird thing to push a D1 wagon on. And meanwhile he's also throwing shade at Ash on the side for the revoked daypass. So yeah, my big post of exploring where to move my vote to has apparently concluded that I'm okay leaving it on mcmc.

At the end of the first 2 sentences, I would've assumed you were townreading the heck out of mcmc.

Now your turn. Why does it sound like that would be a townie narrative instead of a scummy one for mcmc?

Doubling down on the joth case is townie, and even if you disagree with that, acknowledging that joth's active doesn't make it scummier. Weird things to push a D1 wagon on come from town, not scum. Throwing shade on ash when basically everyone townread him is not a scum move, and it's not easy either.

This kinda took too much inspiration from what you said but I'm tired.

The quoted post doesn't actually matter, it's not part of an argument as far as I can tell.

What a strange observation to make. What caused you decide that's a useful thing to post right now, given that you ended your post with a suggestion that you have more useful things to say but no will to say them?

Robz's post mattered to Robz enough to make it, and he's very clearly trying to steer people away from voting for mathdude.

My post mattered because I used it to say that I scumread that sort of manipulation, and I felt it was relevant to point it out there, even if only for future reference in terms of mathdude-Robz interaction for the later game.

I decided to post it because I thought about it, and it seemed relevant. I didn't say other things because I couldn't remember them anymore.

I think "isn't it something I falsely claimed was hedgy 130 games ago" makes it so whatever Robz was saying look like a joke. Personally, I took it as "it's not super townie, and it might look scummy, but I don't think so, because the scumminess is the hedginess, and hedginess isn't scummy", which essentially means "I think it's slightly townie" with some weak reasoning behind it.

Your post matters, but I think you're giving too much relevance to the way Robz said it, since what he was arguing was really not something scum would need to manipulate people into agreeing with. I...think I want to write another sentence, but my brain just shutoff for today.


By the way, math's at L-2 and the biggest wagon is EFHW's. Just so you know.

[mathdude]

Wow, just wow.  Disappear for 18 hours (a bit of sleep, a busy day teaching... you know, IRL stuffs), and the thread lights up... against me!  Ok, I'm here.  There is a lot to reply to.  Let's see where this goes.

My last post, made around 3am last night:

Well, some people are active enough that I could find "reasons" I think pretty much any of them could be scum or reasons any of them could be town.  However, there is definitely TONS of useful interactions that have been happening, so that bodes well for tomorrow.  Town, we have to carefully use any PR's to make sure the results can be useful not only individually, but also in how the results may interact with those interactions... if that makes any sense.  (Getting a read on someone is helpful... but getting a read on someone that you're fairly certain is connected to another someone can be even more useful).

But now I'm torn between 2 options.  Do we try to vote someone out who we have mild suspicions of, who we can actually connect their reveal-on-exile to the statements made by others about them on day-1?  Or do we just go for the less active lurkers, to make sure they don't just hide through a couple days?

vote: Space
Reason: post more!

It made sense to me last night.  Reading it again, I can see some of the fuss about it.  I was trying to get out a bunch of thoughts, but they are coming across different now as I read them while a little more awake.  Also, I felt I hadn't contributed much in a day or two, so I started posting the little I was thinking.  (I'll comment on a few of the statements below, replying to others who have quoted or referenced my post, as they raise the issues with my post that I now see as reading "off").

Here's a current Space Count:
---(snip)---
{really long post, lot of numbers}

These facts that Space worked out are constantly being considered in my head (hence "mathdude"), though I didn't have the time or desire to go back through 7+ pages of posts to figure it out on my phone in bed last night.  I really appreciate the numbers though, Space!  It pretty much lines up with what I was noticing.  And not knowing your whole group or individual metas, these numbers are about all I have to work with at the moment.

Oh, also, obviously (now that you are contributing meaningful posts)...
unvote

Here is another useful interaction:

Vote: mathdude

vote: mathdude

Faust beat me to it.

Thanks.  These make sense.  And boy did they get the ball rolling.

Yeah, that was the scummiest post of the game so far... I hate breaking my personal new-guy D1 pass, but, it sounds like you’ve played enough elsewhere to not truly be a newbie, so yeah, this is fine.

Vote: mathdude

This is opportunistic... a bit.  I see it now - it does read a bit scummy.  But you do what you have to do.  I have played elsewhere.  I'm not a mafia newbie.  I can say you're heading down the wrong path here though.  I'm very much town.

... What was scummy about it?

Pretty hedgy, keeps option open to exile literally everyone in his first sentence. Over-aware about town PRs and subtly trying to direct their mindset on what to do with their actions. More than 2 calendar days before the deadline and advancing the idea of a lurker policy lynch. Votes for Space seemingly solely because lurker status when in his own words, “there is definitely TONS of useful interactions happening.”

At least you have a reason for jumping on the train.  Now, just as I don't know all of you, you don't know me.  Keeping an option open to exile anyone day-1 just makes sense to me at this point in a game.   And being aware of PRs is also me.  Probably as I get to know you guys, I'll do a little more thinking in my head about PRs on day-1, and save the actual discussion for day 2 or 3, when we can actually gather information from them.  I just wanted to (as you point out) "subtly" let you guys know I was thinking about them.  I will have questions about them - possibly towards the end of day-1, or definitely on day-2 as info is revealed.  I know about power roles, but I want to make sure I understand how exactly they work and are treated here (as it may be slightly different than what I'm used to).

Also, I'm definitely a fan of kicking intentional lurkers.  If we see people lurking but not contributing, that's one thing.  If people are just busy IRL, that's another.  And I don't know which is which at this point, but the "Space Count" and Space's analysis definitely helped me a bit there.

I see what people are saying about mathdude's post. It is unusually directive and it seems early to feel "torn" between a lurker exile and a mild suspicion exile.

Also, what does it mean that he votes Space to prompt greater participation when I had just done that? Are two prompting votes needed?

I know he's new, but that could be why he didn't realize his post would out scum!him. If people feel strongly, I'm ok with waiting for Day 2. Right now I'll ...

vote: Mathdude

I think I've addressed most of this in response to Dylan's posts above.  But this is definitely very opportunistic.  I mean, it is vote 4 of 7 required.  But it's also the highest vote count we've gotten yet.  I post honestly.  I post my thoughts.  I'm not worried, in general, about whether a post of mine "would out scum!him" (scum!me).  My thoughts are real, regardless of whether town or mafia.  I am town here, but I don't think my post would be much different even if I was mafia - again, as I've said, I've played this before.

This post just strikes me as newbie trying to contribute meaningfully. I don't think it's a townie post particularly, and yes it's hedgy, but haven't we actually decided that hedginess is not actually a scum characteristic? Isn't it something I falsely claimed was hedgy 130 games ago?

Besides "should we just exile lurkers" is a point we end up debating every other game, and it turns out the pro-town answer is "basically, yes."

Thanks.  These are some things I'm trying to say in all these replies above (but you use much fewer words to say them!)

I guess I should also also clarify that I'm not really scumreading mathdude right now, though I'm happy to be suspicious of people going too far out of their way to try to divert his wagon, and to keep an eye on his interactions accordingly.

I think it's polite to give newbies a daypass, unless they do something outright scummy, because we're a community of players and it can be really tough for the first game or two, so letting them accrue experience that bit faster is probably helpful. Plus, mathdude seems to be willing enough to post his thinking out loud and engage it conversation, and I think a newbie scum trying for a high level of engagement will be at least as catchable later on as now.

I understand the politeness you guys are talking about.  Playing in the past, we had to be careful not to "scare away the newbies".  No worries here.  I won't disappear if you exile me.  I may not pay as close of attention to the thread if I'm not in the game, which means I won't get to know your play styles as much.  But play the game as if I've been here for a few games already.

Yeah, a whole lot of people have jumped in to defend mathdude before we even got a chance to see him respond to the wagon himself. I mean, I get that the one post isn't a sure thing like a true scumslip or anything and he could still be town, but it was a scummier post than a lot of other things that have garnered votes to this point, so I feel like town should have been a little slower to defend it this early in the wagon. It's middle of D1 and this was only the 2nd wagon to even hit 3 people (using the official VCs as reference; Joth's hit 3, MiX moved, then Ash joined to put it back on 3 before moving to mathdude).

I actually agree with you here.  I'm at least as leery of those strongly defending me as I am of those attacking me.  (Now, remember how I post here guys... this is not "I think you all are scum", as before.  This is just saying I'm not so sure about any of this... again/still).  And yes, here I am now, responding to the wagon myself finally.

Back to Space's post now...

Here's a current Space Count:

--(snip - vote count not relevant to my reply)---

The post and word counts (which exclude quoted text) are relevant to something I was doing in last night's post, looking at joth in particular because he was getting heat for being active, so I may as well share these so that anyone else can draw conclusions from them:

Player post counts:
   27 jotheonah (mean 33.4 words/post)
   25 Robz888 (mean 20.8 words/post)
   24 MiX (mean 50.0 words/post)
   19 faust (mean 15.6 words/post)
   19 ashersky (mean 40.9 words/post)
   18 mcmcsalot (mean 33.0 words/post)
   13 EFHW (mean 17.1 words/post)
   13 Dylan32 (mean 83.7 words/post)
   11 WestCoastDidds (mean 53.9 words/post)
   11 mathdude (mean 67.9 words/post)
   8 SpaceAnemone (mean 101.4 words/post)
   3 gkrieg13 (mean 12.0 words/post)

Player word counts:
   1201 MiX
   1088 Dylan32
   902 jotheonah
   811 SpaceAnemone
   778 ashersky
   747 mathdude
   594 mcmcsalot
   593 WestCoastDidds
   519 Robz888
   296 faust
   222 EFHW
   36 gkrieg13

I like these ranked lists.  Total posts is one thing, but is mostly indicative of the person's play/post style in the game... sort of meta info, not necessarily useful for this game (unless someone usually posts a lot and are mostly lurking now).  Total word count is a combination of personal play/post style and engagement in this game.  But I'm actually looking more at the mean (average) words/post.  This helps me get to know you guys, in a nice, summarized way, rather than going back through 9+ pages of replies multiple times.

From one extreme to another, there is gkrieg at 12 words/post to Space over 100.   I knew before Space started the recent posts, both Space and gkrieg were low (on both posts and mean words/post, which also meant total words), but I didn't realize how low gkrieg was.  I could have poked either, really.  I poked Space.  It generated discussion.  I'm glad.  But what's up with gkrieg - is this typical?  Is it even remotely helpful?  Should I have poked gkrieg?  Should I now?

So how's that now?  Have I addressed the concerns some of you have?  Now let's drop the silly votes against me and move onto something actually helpful for day-1.  The things I posted last night I did intentionally.  I wrote what I did, and I wouldn't take them back.  Maybe I should have been a little more diplomatic in how I said them, and may have if I was not half asleep.  But I still stand by what I said, and hopefully now with this long post, some of it makes a little more sense.

PPE - I see a lot more posts that have happened since I started this one.  Rather than responding here (and delaying this post), it appears I need to get it posted, and reply to the new ones in a new one myself.

[mathdude]

I wanted to share that the specific part of mathdude's post that triggered my suspicion was what read to me as their assumption they would be alive on Day 2 to partake in activities.

You know who knows they will definitely not die at night?

That's a good question.  2 others have already responded, but I will too (respond to quoting one of their responses below).  But I am trying to figure out why you think that I think I will definitely not die at night.  The best guess I have is this:

However, there is definitely TONS of useful interactions that have been happening, so that bodes well for tomorrow.

Was that it?  This is a statement to all town in general.  Even if I'm not here, it still bodes well for us, especially now with how much people have jumped into these discussions.

I wanted to share that the specific part of mathdude's post that triggered my suspicion was what read to me as their assumption they would be alive on Day 2 to partake in activities.

You know who knows they will definitely not die at night?

Ok, this I find compelling.

Let's give vote: mathdude a try.

Compelling?  Or a convenient way to not think about what's actually going on?

I wanted to share that the specific part of mathdude's post that triggered my suspicion was what read to me as their assumption they would be alive on Day 2 to partake in activities.

You know who knows they will definitely not die at night?

A new player?

I did get the impression from some people's posts that there's a reasonable chance I'd get a "day pass".  As I said before, don't consider me the new guy.  Assume I've been here a few games.  But I may have used this impression to post my thoughts just a little more freely than I may have otherwise done - I did this though, to try and show who I am, and try the be as helpful as I can be.

Do not want to exile: gkrieg, faust, dylan

Why do you not want to exile gkrieg?  Haven't posted anything scummy?  That's because has hardly posted anything at all.

By the way, math's at L-2 and the biggest wagon is EFHW's. Just so you know.

EFHW... and joth too, IMO.

[gkrieg13]

Sorry been busy. Read through tomorrow incoming.

[EFHW]

vote: joth. I don't like the "he assumed he would be alive" argument and it looks like joth is taking the opportunity to jump on the wagon.

mathdude's defense makes sense if you read the offending post as written by someone who is super tired. I'm going to suspend judgement on him for now.

I'm confused about how I am the largest wagon.

[ashersky]

By the way, math's at L-2 and the biggest wagon is EFHW's. Just so you know.

So EFHW is E-1?

vote: EFHW

vote: mathdude

[ashersky]

Also, if that moves my mathdude vote, it throws off MiX's wagon placement arguments.

[ashersky]

I wanted to share that the specific part of mathdude's post that triggered my suspicion was what read to me as their assumption they would be alive on Day 2 to partake in activities.

You know who knows they will definitely not die at night?

That's a good question.  2 others have already responded, but I will too (respond to quoting one of their responses below).  But I am trying to figure out why you think that I think I will definitely not die at night.  The best guess I have is this:

However, there is definitely TONS of useful interactions that have been happening, so that bodes well for tomorrow.

Was that it?  This is a statement to all town in general.  Even if I'm not here, it still bodes well for us, especially now with how much people have jumped into these discussions.

It was partly that, if you want to choose specific words and combinations of words that convey why I had the impression that you thought you would not die at night.

It was more my impression from reading the post in its entirety, that you expected to be playing on Day 2 and available to do the things you said we'd be able to do (like get info from PRs).

[ashersky]

At least you have a reason for jumping on the train.  Now, just as I don't know all of you, you don't know me.  Keeping an option open to exile anyone day-1 just makes sense to me at this point in a game.   And being aware of PRs is also me.  Probably as I get to know you guys, I'll do a little more thinking in my head about PRs on day-1, and save the actual discussion for day 2 or 3, when we can actually gather information from them.  I just wanted to (as you point out) "subtly" let you guys know I was thinking about them.  I will have questions about them - possibly towards the end of day-1, or definitely on day-2 as info is revealed.  I know about power roles, but I want to make sure I understand how exactly they work and are treated here (as it may be slightly different than what I'm used to).

Also, I'm definitely a fan of kicking intentional lurkers.  If we see people lurking but not contributing, that's one thing.  If people are just busy IRL, that's another.  And I don't know which is which at this point, but the "Space Count" and Space's analysis definitely helped me a bit there.

Snipping what I read as the most useful part of your very long defense.

As a general rule, I would warn that there is no reason for you to assume that there will be any information to be had on subsequent days from power roles in any game.  People don't share, people miss, people die, etc.

In this game, I really feel like you are hurting yourself here.  This focus on PRs (which I didn't read as much of in the original post that got all this started but do see here a lot) and their possible information and role to be played in future days has basically put you in the mafia OR town PR category at this point.  That's bad for a multitude of reasons.  I'll try to lay it out as best I can:

--your previous post and this post both share a lot of assumptions regarding PR play, usage, and -- most importantly here -- existence.  As a semi-closed setup, part of a PR's protection is the hidden nature of that role.  The players here who are more likely to think PRs exist and will be contributing something are, you guessed it, the PRs themselves and the mafia who know how many PRs exist.
--while you can (and probably will) argue that your posts are about mafia games in general, it is difficult to believe that what you write in this game thread is not about this game.
--so, your confidence in the way we will "gather information" from the PRs will take part in this game in Day 2 and beyond makes me think you have more information that a VT would -- so either mafia or a PR.
--your mention of sharing information leans more toward specific roles: in this setup, the Role Cop, Goon Cop, and Tracker.  A no kill means the Roleblocker might have something to say, as well.  The Bodyguard, for example, would have no information to share.
--can you say that you just meant "gather information" from whatever we see (i.e., bodyguard death, no kill, two kills, etc.)?  Sure.  But that's not a surefire defense, nor will I be inclined to believe it.

So, I see two distinct possibilities:

#1: You are mafia, expect to live through the night because what are the chances a vig exists AND shoots the "newbie" and therefore slipped.
#2: You are a PR, probably one that gets results (Goon Cop or Tracker) and PR slipped (or breadcrumbed badly), which means you, or the possible bodyguard who protects you, dies.

Is #2 the worst?  Maybe not.  You get a result of some sort and survive IF there is a bodyguard.  Chances aren't my forte, so someone who does math can figure that out.  But #2 is still very bad.

There is a #3, which is an f.ds staple, where you are a VT purposefully angling for the NK to protect others.  In that case, you still end up getting the Bodyguard killed, if they exist.

So anyway, that's a deeper look into why I think exiling you makes sense, as I see #1 to be more likely than #2.  (I think PRs are more careful about not slipping information that would give themselves away on D1.)

[ashersky]

The TLDR version:

I think mathdude slipped that they are either mafia or a PR.  My bet is most likely mafia, possibly role cop given the "gather information" focus.

(An aside: If I am right about role cop, mafia selected as least one power, and if they took role cop, I'd say they took at least two more.  That's all conjecture though, with no evidence.)

If they're town, they have a PR that gets a result, like Goon Cop or maybe Tracker.

[faust]

Well you have certainly been busy! I'll try to give some comments as I catch up.

I don't think Joth has really done anything scummy.

Do you think he is just doing joth things or do you think the things hes done are towny?

Do you?

I do, joths initial votes for Dylan, gkrieg, and robz all struck me as fishing for wagons, all for generic reasons that he quickly backed off of as soon as the wagons didn’t take off. His lack of acknowledgement to the initial votes on him and then frustration/impressedness at your vote for him (which is a vote that makes him significantly more likely to be exhiled) is good scum tactic.

Is fishing for wagons a bad thing?

[faust]

Vote: Space for being wrong

Hehe, the first thought that pops into my head here is that this is exactly the sort of disagreement we've actively talked about wanting to fabricate when we're both on the scumteam, isn't it? Sadly, I can guarantee we're not both scum here because I'm town!

This is some next-level distancing!

[faust]

Word-sparse players are gkrieg, faust and EFHW, which is not too unsurprising.

"not too unsurprising" is hard for me to parse... though I feel like you mean "not too surprising"?

[faust]

I guess I should also also clarify that I'm not really scumreading mathdude right now, though I'm happy to be suspicious of people going too far out of their way to try to divert his wagon, and to keep an eye on his interactions accordingly.
--snip--

Yeah, a whole lot of people have jumped in to defend mathdude before we even got a chance to see him respond to the wagon himself. I mean, I get that the one post isn't a sure thing like a true scumslip or anything and he could still be town, but it was a scummier post than a lot of other things that have garnered votes to this point, so I feel like town should have been a little slower to defend it this early in the wagon. It's middle of D1 and this was only the 2nd wagon to even hit 3 people (using the official VCs as reference; Joth's hit 3, MiX moved, then Ash joined to put it back on 3 before moving to mathdude).

I find myself agreeing with Dylan a lot. This is another good post.

[faust]

I wanted to share that the specific part of mathdude's post that triggered my suspicion was what read to me as their assumption they would be alive on Day 2 to partake in activities.

You know who knows they will definitely not die at night?

Ok, this I find compelling.

Let's give vote: mathdude a try.

Joke's  on you; we know you're scum now!

[faust]

I see what people are saying about mathdude's post. It is unusually directive and it seems early to feel "torn" between a lurker exile and a mild suspicion exile.

Also, what does it mean that he votes Space to prompt greater participation when I had just done that? Are two prompting votes needed?

I know he's new, but that could be why he didn't realize his post would out scum!him. If people feel strongly, I'm ok with waiting for Day 2. Right now I'll ...

vote: Mathdude

What's the scummiest place in the wagon if math's town? I'm thinking this one.

I think you are all assuming math is an expert, because he's tried very hard to appear as one. But the truth is he's a new player in terms of knowing the meta here, and you should think of him as such. The super scummy post is incredibly towny because no scum would ever risk posting it. It's probably the most honest post yet, by anyone.

This is the actual definition of MiX's style of play.  Literally making up a thing to make his top mafia read look worse.  You built a "worst place on the wagon" argument around EFHW's vote being the most recent, after you have been quasi-tunneling them for the day.  It is a bad argument, and you should apologize for making it.

It is, unfortunately, not alignment-indicative for MiX.  It's MiX-indicative.

Yes, yes, the confirmation bias runs strong in this one.

[faust]

Do not want to exile: gkrieg, faust, dylan

I feel odd for not being in a fight with ash yet. There is a distinct chance that he might be scum.