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Author Topic: M134: Conference Call Mafia V 2.0 - Game Over - Skum Wins!  (Read 115150 times)

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faust

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Re: M134: Conference Call Mafia V 2.0 - Day 1 HAS BEGUN! AGAIN!
« Reply #175 on: February 23, 2021, 03:47:28 am »

Here is another useful interaction:

Vote: mathdude
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Re: M134: Conference Call Mafia V 2.0 - Day 1 HAS BEGUN! AGAIN!
« Reply #176 on: February 23, 2021, 07:59:10 am »

vote: mathdude

Faust beat me to it.
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Re: M134: Conference Call Mafia V 2.0 - Day 1 HAS BEGUN! AGAIN!
« Reply #177 on: February 23, 2021, 07:59:32 am »

Also, day pass revoked, obviously.
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Dylan32

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Re: M134: Conference Call Mafia V 2.0 - Day 1 HAS BEGUN! AGAIN!
« Reply #178 on: February 23, 2021, 10:36:49 am »

Yeah, that was the scummiest post of the game so far... I hate breaking my personal new-guy D1 pass, but, it sounds like you’ve played enough elsewhere to not truly be a newbie, so yeah, this is fine.

Vote: mathdude
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Robz888

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Re: M134: Conference Call Mafia V 2.0 - Day 1 HAS BEGUN! AGAIN!
« Reply #179 on: February 23, 2021, 10:39:47 am »

... What was scummy about it?
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faust

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Re: M134: Conference Call Mafia V 2.0 - Day 1 HAS BEGUN! AGAIN!
« Reply #180 on: February 23, 2021, 10:44:59 am »

... What was scummy about it?
What do you think about it?
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Dylan32

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Re: M134: Conference Call Mafia V 2.0 - Day 1 HAS BEGUN! AGAIN!
« Reply #181 on: February 23, 2021, 10:49:47 am »

... What was scummy about it?

Pretty hedgy, keeps option open to exile literally everyone in his first sentence. Over-aware about town PRs and subtly trying to direct their mindset on what to do with their actions. More than 2 calendar days before the deadline and advancing the idea of a lurker policy lynch. Votes for Space seemingly solely because lurker status when in his own words, “there is definitely TONS of useful interactions happening.”

PPE 1
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Re: M134: Conference Call Mafia V 2.0 - Day 1 HAS BEGUN! AGAIN!
« Reply #182 on: February 23, 2021, 11:29:19 am »

Ok, Robz has basically done nothing so far but townread people and ask naive questions and it's starting to feel off to me. I usually expect a little more robust mafia playing from one of the founding members of this playgroup. Maybe he's doing something different or just rusty from the time off, but I think he's trying to lay low and skate through day 1 and not making any particular effort to scumhunt.

Vote: Robz

I don't hate the mathdude wagon but it just seems too easy and I don't trust it.
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faust

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Re: M134: Conference Call Mafia V 2.0 - Day 1 HAS BEGUN! AGAIN!
« Reply #183 on: February 23, 2021, 11:32:22 am »

I don't hate the mathdude wagon but it just seems too easy and I don't trust it.
Which of the people on it do you think are scum?
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MiX

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Re: M134: Conference Call Mafia V 2.0 - Day 1 HAS BEGUN! AGAIN!
« Reply #184 on: February 23, 2021, 11:41:27 am »

Ok, Robz has basically done nothing so far but townread people and ask naive questions and it's starting to feel off to me. I usually expect a little more robust mafia playing from one of the founding members of this playgroup. Maybe he's doing something different or just rusty from the time off, but I think he's trying to lay low and skate through day 1 and not making any particular effort to scumhunt.

Vote: Robz

I don't hate the mathdude wagon but it just seems too easy and I don't trust it.

Wait. Have you even played with Robz before? Since when does he do things D1?

What do you think of mathdude?
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Re: M134: Conference Call Mafia V 2.0 - Day 1 HAS BEGUN! AGAIN!
« Reply #185 on: February 23, 2021, 12:08:01 pm »

Ok, Robz has basically done nothing so far but townread people and ask naive questions and it's starting to feel off to me. I usually expect a little more robust mafia playing from one of the founding members of this playgroup. Maybe he's doing something different or just rusty from the time off, but I think he's trying to lay low and skate through day 1 and not making any particular effort to scumhunt.

Vote: Robz

I don't hate the mathdude wagon but it just seems too easy and I don't trust it.

Wait. Have you even played with Robz before? Since when does he do things D1?

What do you think of mathdude?

The post raised eyebrows but I would not have expected it to garner three votes in rapid succession. The suggestion of directing town PRs pings us as scummy, but it seems like something a new person might not realize was problematic. And the rest of it just seems like a new person who's frustrated with Day 1 and wants to get things rolling, which is a feeling I can very much relate to.

He's on my radar, but I haven't revoked his day pass.
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faust

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Re: M134: Conference Call Mafia V 2.0 - Day 1 HAS BEGUN! AGAIN!
« Reply #186 on: February 23, 2021, 12:45:42 pm »

Why even bother giving out a day pass if it can be revoked at any time? Seems like false advertising.
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EFHW

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Re: M134: Conference Call Mafia V 2.0 - Day 1 HAS BEGUN! AGAIN!
« Reply #187 on: February 23, 2021, 12:56:41 pm »

Why even bother giving out a day pass if it can be revoked at any time? Seems like false advertising.

My thought as well!
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Re: M134: Conference Call Mafia V 2.0 - Day 1 HAS BEGUN! AGAIN!
« Reply #188 on: February 23, 2021, 01:08:30 pm »

I see what people are saying about mathdude's post. It is unusually directive and it seems early to feel "torn" between a lurker exile and a mild suspicion exile.

Also, what does it mean that he votes Space to prompt greater participation when I had just done that? Are two prompting votes needed?

I know he's new, but that could be why he didn't realize his post would out scum!him. If people feel strongly, I'm ok with waiting for Day 2. Right now I'll ...

vote: Mathdude
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Robz888

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Re: M134: Conference Call Mafia V 2.0 - Day 1 HAS BEGUN! AGAIN!
« Reply #189 on: February 23, 2021, 01:10:27 pm »

Well, some people are active enough that I could find "reasons" I think pretty much any of them could be scum or reasons any of them could be town.  However, there is definitely TONS of useful interactions that have been happening, so that bodes well for tomorrow.  Town, we have to carefully use any PR's to make sure the results can be useful not only individually, but also in how the results may interact with those interactions... if that makes any sense.  (Getting a read on someone is helpful... but getting a read on someone that you're fairly certain is connected to another someone can be even more useful).

But now I'm torn between 2 options.  Do we try to vote someone out who we have mild suspicions of, who we can actually connect their reveal-on-exile to the statements made by others about them on day-1?  Or do we just go for the less active lurkers, to make sure they don't just hide through a couple days?

Yeah, sorry! Started a re-read of everyone earlier, but didn't finish it before the evening's social calls, and now it's past bedtime. Still have notes in another tab, but it will have to wait till tomorrow at this point. My sanity is on a lot thinner ground than it was in the beforetimes, so bedtime needs to be that bit more strict :-(

vote: Space
Reason: post more!

This post just strikes me as newbie trying to contribute meaningfully. I don't think it's a townie post particularly, and yes it's hedgy, but haven't we actually decided that hedginess is not actually a scum characteristic? Isn't it something I falsely claimed was hedgy 130 games ago?

Besides "should we just exile lurkers" is a point we end up debating every other game, and it turns out the pro-town answer is "basically, yes."
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Robz888

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Re: M134: Conference Call Mafia V 2.0 - Day 1 HAS BEGUN! AGAIN!
« Reply #190 on: February 23, 2021, 01:11:13 pm »

Ok, Robz has basically done nothing so far but townread people and ask naive questions and it's starting to feel off to me. I usually expect a little more robust mafia playing from one of the founding members of this playgroup. Maybe he's doing something different or just rusty from the time off, but I think he's trying to lay low and skate through day 1 and not making any particular effort to scumhunt.

Vote: Robz

I don't hate the mathdude wagon but it just seems too easy and I don't trust it.

I bolded the part of your comment that is wrong.
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Robz888

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Re: M134: Conference Call Mafia V 2.0 - Day 1 HAS BEGUN! AGAIN!
« Reply #191 on: February 23, 2021, 01:12:00 pm »

For complaints that I'm just townreading everyone... Well, I'm NOT townreading mcmc, that's for sure.
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Re: M134: Conference Call Mafia V 2.0 - Day 1 HAS BEGUN! AGAIN!
« Reply #192 on: February 23, 2021, 01:57:47 pm »

For complaints that I'm just townreading everyone... Well, I'm NOT townreading mcmc, that's for sure.

Ooohhh...... what is off about him, besides the aforementioned man-bun?
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Robz888

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Re: M134: Conference Call Mafia V 2.0 - Day 1 HAS BEGUN! AGAIN!
« Reply #193 on: February 23, 2021, 02:05:21 pm »

For complaints that I'm just townreading everyone... Well, I'm NOT townreading mcmc, that's for sure.

Ooohhh...... what is off about him, besides the aforementioned man-bun?

Can't quite put it into words yet.
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MiX

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Re: M134: Conference Call Mafia V 2.0 - Day 1 HAS BEGUN! AGAIN!
« Reply #194 on: February 23, 2021, 02:15:56 pm »

I see what people are saying about mathdude's post. It is unusually directive and it seems early to feel "torn" between a lurker exile and a mild suspicion exile.

Also, what does it mean that he votes Space to prompt greater participation when I had just done that? Are two prompting votes needed?

I know he's new, but that could be why he didn't realize his post would out scum!him. If people feel strongly, I'm ok with waiting for Day 2. Right now I'll ...

vote: Mathdude

What's the scummiest place in the wagon if math's town? I'm thinking this one.

I think you are all assuming math is an expert, because he's tried very hard to appear as one. But the truth is he's a new player in terms of knowing the meta here, and you should think of him as such. The super scummy post is incredibly towny because no scum would ever risk posting it. It's probably the most honest post yet, by anyone.

For complaints that I'm just townreading everyone... Well, I'm NOT townreading mcmc, that's for sure.

Who has complained about that, other than yourself?

For complaints that I'm just townreading everyone... Well, I'm NOT townreading mcmc, that's for sure.

Ooohhh...... what is off about him, besides the aforementioned man-bun?

Can't quite put it into words yet.

Who are you voting for, and why?
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faust

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Re: M134: Conference Call Mafia V 2.0 - Day 1 HAS BEGUN! AGAIN!
« Reply #195 on: February 23, 2021, 02:45:38 pm »

What's the scummiest place in the wagon if math's town? I'm thinking this one.
I'm actually thinking the next one... so whoever places the next vote is scum for sure!
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Dylan32

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Re: M134: Conference Call Mafia V 2.0 - Day 1 HAS BEGUN! AGAIN!
« Reply #196 on: February 23, 2021, 02:57:45 pm »

I see what people are saying about mathdude's post. It is unusually directive and it seems early to feel "torn" between a lurker exile and a mild suspicion exile.

Also, what does it mean that he votes Space to prompt greater participation when I had just done that? Are two prompting votes needed?

I know he's new, but that could be why he didn't realize his post would out scum!him. If people feel strongly, I'm ok with waiting for Day 2. Right now I'll ...

vote: Mathdude

What's the scummiest place in the wagon if math's town? I'm thinking this one.

1

I think you are all assuming math is an expert, because he's tried very hard to appear as one. But the truth is he's a new player in terms of knowing the meta here, and you should think of him as such. The super scummy post is incredibly towny because no scum would ever risk posting it. It's probably the most honest post yet, by anyone.

2

For complaints that I'm just townreading everyone... Well, I'm NOT townreading mcmc, that's for sure.

Who has complained about that, other than yourself?

3

For complaints that I'm just townreading everyone... Well, I'm NOT townreading mcmc, that's for sure.

Ooohhh...... what is off about him, besides the aforementioned man-bun?

Can't quite put it into words yet.

Who are you voting for, and why?

The numbers in bold and italics inserted above are to show what parts of your post I'm replying to with the following comments.

1. Interesting to jump in and claim this before we know if this is the whole wagon or if someone else would join in a scummier way later. I could also see a comment like this serving to put a damper on further wagon growth preemptively, which would be helpful if you're partners.

2. I don't know that anyone is treating him like an expert, just an experienced player who has a better grasp on forum mafia than the average new guy that joins us here. Also, claims of too scummy to be scum are usually garbage. Not that they are never true, but I'm inclined to think attributing town points for scummy behavior is just poor play, particularly when you don't have specific personal meta history on the person in question that would suggest it is more consistent with their town self.

3. Joth accused him of two things in the post where he voted Robz, only townreading people and asking simple questions (to paraphrase).

ppe 1 by faust. I take back the second part of point 1, faust's post would do more to stop wagon growth than yours haha.
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Forum Mafia Record - Wins: 14 - NM9, M97, RMM41, M99, M102, M104, M119, M126, RMM56, M133, M134, RMM58, RMM59, RMM61, RMM60; Losses 15 - RMM37, M89, M94, M95, M96, M100, RMM47 M109, M110, M120, M127, M129, M131, M132, M136; MVPs: 1 - NM9

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Re: M134: Conference Call Mafia V 2.0 - Day 1 HAS BEGUN! AGAIN!
« Reply #197 on: February 23, 2021, 03:56:05 pm »

I don't think Joth has really done anything scummy.

Do you think he is just doing joth things or do you think the things hes done are towny?

Do you?

I do, joths initial votes for Dylan, gkrieg, and robz all struck me as fishing for wagons, all for generic reasons that he quickly backed off of as soon as the wagons didn’t take off. His lack of acknowledgement to the initial votes on him and then frustration/impressedness at your vote for him (which is a vote that makes him significantly more likely to be exhiled) is good scum tactic.
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Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

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Re: M134: Conference Call Mafia V 2.0 - Day 1 HAS BEGUN! AGAIN!
« Reply #198 on: February 23, 2021, 03:59:58 pm »

I don't think Joth has really done anything scummy.

Do you think he is just doing joth things or do you think the things hes done are towny?

Do you?

I do, joths initial votes for Dylan, gkrieg, and robz all struck me as fishing for wagons, all for generic reasons that he quickly backed off of as soon as the wagons didn’t take off. His lack of acknowledgement to the initial votes on him and then frustration/impressedness at your vote for him (which is a vote that makes him significantly more likely to be exhiled) is good scum tactic.

So I'm fishing for wagons, but when the best and most plausible wagon in the game cropped up (mathdude) I decided to ignore it? And I also passed up an opportunity to hop on the EFHW wagon after being explicitly invited to join it?

Are they both my partners? Or am I just really bad at fishing for wagons? :P
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mcmcsalot

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Re: M134: Conference Call Mafia V 2.0 - Day 1 HAS BEGUN! AGAIN!
« Reply #199 on: February 23, 2021, 04:03:53 pm »

I don't think Joth has really done anything scummy.

Do you think he is just doing joth things or do you think the things hes done are towny?

Do you?

I do, joths initial votes for Dylan, gkrieg, and robz all struck me as fishing for wagons, all for generic reasons that he quickly backed off of as soon as the wagons didn’t take off. His lack of acknowledgement to the initial votes on him and then frustration/impressedness at your vote for him (which is a vote that makes him significantly more likely to be exhiled) is good scum tactic.

So I'm fishing for wagons, but when the best and most plausible wagon in the game cropped up (mathdude) I decided to ignore it? And I also passed up an opportunity to hop on the EFHW wagon after being explicitly invited to join it?

Are they both my partners? Or am I just really bad at fishing for wagons? :P

Fishing for wagons and joining quickly built wagons are two very different things. I think you are good at fishing for wagons safely and are acutely aware/concerned of the attention joining the math wagon would bring on you.
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Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)
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