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Author Topic: Dominion: Summertime (a fan expansion)  (Read 2145 times)

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emtzalex

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Dominion: Summertime (a fan expansion)
« on: February 14, 2021, 01:45:08 am »
+5

You may not know this, but the lyrics to "The Christmas Song" (better known as "Chestnuts Roasting on an Open Fire") were originally written down as a way to try to stay cool on a blistering hot July day by invoking memories of winter. In that spirit, I wanted to create some cards that remind me of the heat of summer. I don't know where you all live, but where I am it is bitterly cold.

Thus, Summertime. It's a small expansion, with 14 Kingdom Cards (two of which are part of a split pile). There is a new type of card-shaped object and mechanic, Conditions. Conditions are two-sided and don't have an innate effect on the game, but are referenced by specific cards that behave differently depending on which side is up. Unlike States or Artifacts, they are not taken by a specific player, but apply equally to all players and stay in the middle of the table. There are three, two-sided Conditions.

Easy Living/Hard Times:

Warm/Cool:

Rainy/Dry:

Here are the 14 Kingdom Cards. (I will discuss them in more detail in subsequent posts.)

There are also two non-Supply cards.

The main theme of the expansion is Conditions. Of the 16 cards, 11 make some reference to Conditions. The ones that need one or more specific Condition to work have the new type "Conditional" to make sure those Conditions are used.


Here are the old versions of cards that have been updated:



« Last Edit: May 20, 2021, 12:33:04 am by emtzalex »
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emtzalex

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Re: Dominion: Summertime (a fan expansion)
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2021, 02:26:08 am »
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Three cards use two different Conditions to effect how they work:

                   
SUMMER GARDEN - $3          DOG DAYS - $4          VANILLA ORCHARD - $4
ACTION - CONDITIONAL          ACTION - ATTACK - CONDITIONAL          ACTION - CONDITIONAL
+$1
If Rainy is face up: +$1.
If Dry is face up: +1 Buy.
If Hard Times is face up: +2 Actions.
If Easy Living is face up: +$1.
Flip Rainy/Dry or Hard Times/Easy Living.
          If Easy Living is face up:
Gain a card onto your deck costing up to $4 which is…
If Hard Times is face up:
Each other player discards (or reveals a hand without)…
If Warm is face up: …an Action card.
If Cool is face up: …a Treasure.
Flip Warm/Cool or Easy Living/Hard Times.
          +1 Card
+1 Action
If Warm and Rainy are face up: +1 Card
If Warm and Dry are face up: +1 Action
If Cool and Rainy are face up: +$1
If Cool and Dry are face up: +1 Buy
Flip Warm/Cool or Rainy/Dry.


With the Conditions each having two sides, each of the cards can work one of four ways. Each one then flips one of the two Conditions after resolving the conditional effect. This prevents repeatedly using the same mechanic, while having potentially interesting interactions with other Conditional cards.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2021, 12:34:15 am by emtzalex »
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Re: Dominion: Summertime (a fan expansion)
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2021, 02:39:48 am »
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There are two Action cards that each use a single Condition.

         
WATERING HOLE - $4          SWOLLEN RIVER - $5
ACTION - CONDITIONAL          ACTION - CONDITIONAL
+1 Card
+1 Action
+$1
Flip Warm/Cool.
If Warm is face up: discard a card.
If Cool is face up: +1 Action.
          +1 Card
+1 Action
This turn, cards (everywhere) cost $1 less. Flip Rainy/Dry.
Then, if Rainy is face up: discard 2 cards from your hand.
If Dry is face up: +1 Buy.

Watering Hole illustrates something I have ended up liking about this mechanic. It is two existing cards--Oasis and Bazaar--in one. If you can combine different Conditional cards to get the better outcome more often, they become very powerful, but if you end up with the worse outcome more often, they likely end up being overpriced and hurting your deck.
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Re: Dominion: Summertime (a fan expansion)
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2021, 02:51:19 am »
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What side do each of the Conditions start on? I assume the first side listed?



This seems really weak. The Easy Living effect is strictly worse than Workshop (in fact, when Easy Living and Cool are both face up, it's usually significantly worse than Squire, a mid-tier ), and the Attack isn't particularly strong for being attached to a that does nothing to benefit you (when it attacks).
EDIT: It's not quite as weak as I thought, because I didn't see the "onto your deck" part before now. I still think it's weak, though.



It says "discard this to your hand." I assume that's supposed to be "discard this tofrom your hand," in which case it doesn't need the "from your hand," as that is implied with discarding. It and Parasol both have the same problem, which is that they're only useful if you're playing with a bunch of Summertime cards. In my opinion, every card should be playable even if it's the only card you're using from its expansion. Both Pond and Parasol fail that test (w/o Conditional cards, Pond is a more expensive Tunnel without the Reaction, and Parasol is a Ducat without the on-gain effect that gives + instead of a Coffer, which is almost strictly worse than +1 Coffer).



New Moon probably doesn't need the upper cost limit of . The only Action card that would prevent you from ever getting is Prince, and it's not worth adding a restriction that prevents gaining just one Action card.



+2 Cards, +1 Action, +, discard two cards is already quite a good in my opinion, and this is strictly better than that. Also, the versatility with the last option is a bigger edge than being able to get a second +Action and a +Buy at the same time (Festival). So this is too good by comparison to Festival as well, imo.



It feels redundant to repeat the "for each in the cost of the Attack" phrase. Also, it's not clear whether the Reaction window is before or after the Attack resolves, and the Reaction needs to specify "set this aside from your hand." Here's my suggested wording:
Quote
When another player plays an Attack card, you may first set this aside from your hand. If you do, +1 Card per $1 the Attack costs, then discard that many cards. At the start of your next turn, return this to your hand and +1 Card.
That said, the Reaction is way too strong. I'd never buy a Witch if I risk giving my opponents a total of +6 Cards whenever I play one! The Reaction makes Attacks completely undesirable, and if nobody gets Attacks, then TC becomes just a very overpriced Poacher. And that's not even mentioning that you get even more cards if you have multiple TCs in hand or draw any with the Reaction. And there isn't even any risk in stocking up on TCs like there is with Moats, because TCs are Cantrips!
« Last Edit: February 14, 2021, 02:53:00 am by Gubump »
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Timinou

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Re: Dominion: Summertime (a fan expansion)
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2021, 09:46:34 am »
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You could make Parasol and Pond non-Kingdom cards similar to Colonies and Platinums. 

How many Bad Moons and Bella Notes would be available?
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Re: Dominion: Summertime (a fan expansion)
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2021, 10:34:29 am »
+2

At least in the case of 2 of the 3 conditions which are adjectives, you could reduce the wordiness (respectively make the wording more natural) via "If it is Rainy" instead of "If Rainy is face up".
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Re: Dominion: Summertime (a fan expansion)
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2021, 12:51:17 pm »
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New Moon probably doesn't need the upper cost limit of . The only Action card that would prevent you from ever getting is Prince, and it's not worth adding a restriction that prevents gaining just one Action card.

Ignore this comment. I just realized that I misread New Moon too, I thought it could only gain Actions. Since it can gain any card type, it could just be limited to non-Victory cards. That's what I get for trying to comment on an entire expansion at nearly 1 in the morning.
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Re: Dominion: Summertime (a fan expansion)
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2021, 02:11:57 pm »
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Summer Garden and Dog Days are too wordy and complicated IMO. I don't think it works well to make cards that depend on multiple conditions unless you can make them as simple as Vanilla Orchard.
Several others of these could use simpler wording, like if the card depends on one condition you can say "If X is face up... Otherwise..." (putting "otherwise" in place of "if Y is face up).
Where you have "immediately replace", you can use "exchange" instead.
In Travelling Carnival, you can say "...For each $1 in its cost draw a card, then discard the same number of cards."

Summer Solstice is easily my favorite of these. It's strong, but I don't think it'd be too strong.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2021, 02:18:40 pm by LibraryAdventurer »
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Re: Dominion: Summertime (a fan expansion)
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2021, 10:10:39 pm »
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Thanks for all of the suggestions. I have made a few updates based on them, including segura's suggestions about wording. I am judging the next weekly Fan Card Mechanics contest, so I am going to pause any efforts on this for a bit. I will definitely be back to this.
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Re: Dominion: Summertime (a fan expansion)
« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2021, 04:25:01 pm »
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Dog Days looks like it has the potential to be terribroken: normally fairly weak, but just once in a while it can destroy an opponent's turn.
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emtzalex

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Re: Dominion: Summertime (a fan expansion)
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2021, 11:16:31 pm »
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There are two Kingdom cards (which are part of a 5/5 split pile) and two non-Supply cards (which are exchanged for one of those Kingdom cards) using only the Easy Living/Hard Times Condition. All four cards are Nights.

         
NEW MOON - $4          FULL MOON - $5
NIGHT - CONDITIONAL          NIGHT - CONDITIONAL
Flip Easy Living/Hard Times.
Then, if it's Easy Living, gain a card costing up to $1 for each Action card
you have in play (but not more than $7). Otherwise, you may trash a card
in your hand and you may trash a card you have in play.
          If it's Easy Living, immediately exchange this for Bella Notte and play
that card. Otherwise, immediately exchange this for Bad Moon and play
that card.
-----
When you exchange another card for this, set this aside instead of
returning it to the Supply.


         
BAD MOON - $4          BELLA NOTTE - $5
NIGHT - ATTACK - CONDITIONAL          NIGHT - GATHERING - CONDITIONAL
-2VP
-----
If it's Easy Living, immediately exchange this for Bella Notte and play
that card instead. Otherwise, each other player gains a Curse.
(This is not in the Supply.)
          If it's Hard Times, immediately exchange this for Bad Moon and play that card
instead of this. Otherwise, add 1VP to the to the Bella Notte pile. If you gained
a Victory card this turn, +1VP.
-----
When you exchange this for another card, take the VP from the Bella Notte pile.

Aside from the Conditions, these cards are the only somewhat new mechanic. The closest equivalent is Vampire / Bat, which exchange for one another after they have resolved. Here, they are more like a single card which toggles between versions of itself depending on the Condition when it is played. 

Originally Bad Moon did not give out Curses. Instead, when you gained Full Moon, you took a State called Night Owl which required you to reveal your hand at the start of each Night phase and play all the Nights in your hand. However, I think by making it a curser and by making Bella Notte a Gathering that rewards exchanging for it (thus encouraging you to swap back and forth between the two), I don't think I need to force people to play the cards when it is Hard Times.

I tried to intentionally synergize New Moon and Full Moon. When it's Easy Living, one option is that New Moon can (potentially) gain you a Victory card, allowing you to get the extra +1VP from Bella Notte. Alternatively, while it's Hard Times, New Moon can trash the curses you might gain from Bad Moon.

How many Bad Moons and Bella Notes would be available?
There are 5 each. The idea is that it is like one card that potentially changes each time you play it. To that end, I changed Full Moon so that it gets set aside when you exchange a card for it, so there can only be 5 copies of one of the cards out there at a time.

Where you have "immediately replace", you can use "exchange" instead.
Thanks! I had intended to use the same word as Vampire / Bat and Travellers, and for some reason in my head I thought that word was "Replace." You are correct that it is "Exchange" and I have changed it thusly. I still think I need the word "immediately" because generally exchanging happens when you discard a card from play, and the rules about exchanging presume that in a way that I think needs to be distinguished.

Ignore this comment. I just realized that I misread New Moon too, I thought it could only gain Actions. Since it can gain any card type, it could just be limited to non-Victory cards. That's what I get for trying to comment on an entire expansion at nearly 1 in the morning.
Thanks for all of your feedback. My inclination is to leave the $7 limit (or possibly lower it to $6, although the number of cards that excludes isn't much larger) instead of prohibiting Victory cards. As previously mentioned, I like the synergy of gaining a Victory card with New Moon then playing Bella Notte. I also don't want it giving Platinums in Colony games.
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Re: Dominion: Summertime (a fan expansion)
« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2021, 02:30:00 am »
+1

Four Action cards don't have the Conditional type.

                             
SUMMER STORM - $2          BEACH VILLAGE - $4          SUMMER SOLSTICE - $5          TRAVELLING CARNIVAL - $6
ACTION          ACTION          ACTION          ACTION - REACTION
+4 Cards
Discard 4 cards.
          +1 Card
+2 Actions
You may trash this to gain
two cards each costing up
to $3.
          +1 Action
+$2
Choose one: +1 Action; or
+1 Buy; or +2 Cards and
discard 2 cards.
          +1 Card
+1 Action
+$1
-----
When another player plays an Attack,
you may set this aside from your
hand. If you do, +1 Card per $2 the
Attack costs (rounded up), then discard
that many cards. At the start of your
next turn, return this to your hand.

These show the set's second, fuzzier theme, that of choice. Summer Solstice does this most directly with the "Choose one:" mechanic. Beach Village has its optional trashing effect, letting you choose between keeping it at getting two, cheaper cards. And the "Draw X, discard X" sifter mechanic of Summer Storm, Summer Solstice (if you choose it) and Traveling Carnival's reaction let you choose which cards you want from a larger group.

+2 Cards, +1 Action, +, discard two cards is already quite a good in my opinion, and this is strictly better than that. Also, the versatility with the last option is a bigger edge than being able to get a second +Action and a +Buy at the same time (Festival). So this is too good by comparison to Festival as well, imo.
Summer Solstice is easily my favorite of these. It's strong, but I don't think it'd be too strong.

Summer Solstice was original called "Summer Solstice Festival" and was meant to be a variation on the base set card. I decided that name was too wordy, considered "Solstice Festival" but then decide that the artwork could indicate that it was a celebration of the Solstice, while keeping the word "Summer" (which I actually like being part of the name of multiple cards).

I also played around with which part's of Festival's bonus to make optional. I definitely wanted it to still function as Disappearing money, and nothing in that category costing $5 or more gives less than $2, so I felt like that had to stay. I also didn't want it to be terminal at that price point, so I felt like I wanted to keep one of the Actions. That left the other Action and the Buy. I thought foregoing both for the 2 card sifting (and otherwise only being able to get one) was sufficiently balanced, but I can see that it potentially might not be.

Gubump -- do you think this would justify a price of $6? Is there something that could be added to make it worth that? What if you got two of the three?


It feels redundant to repeat the "for each in the cost of the Attack" phrase. Also, it's not clear whether the Reaction window is before or after the Attack resolves, and the Reaction needs to specify "set this aside from your hand." Here's my suggested wording:
Quote
When another player plays an Attack card, you may first set this aside from your hand. If you do, +1 Card per $1 the Attack costs, then discard that many cards. At the start of your next turn, return this to your hand and +1 Card.
That said, the Reaction is way too strong. I'd never buy a Witch if I risk giving my opponents a total of +6 Cards whenever I play one! The Reaction makes Attacks completely undesirable, and if nobody gets Attacks, then TC becomes just a very overpriced Poacher. And that's not even mentioning that you get even more cards if you have multiple TCs in hand or draw any with the Reaction. And there isn't even any risk in stocking up on TCs like there is with Moats, because TCs are Cantrips!
In Travelling Carnival, you can say "...For each $1 in its cost draw a card, then discard the same number of cards."
Thanks again for the advice. As you can see, I have tried to clean up the language, and modified this to cut the sifting (almost) in half, and remove the +1 card bonus.
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Re: Dominion: Summertime (a fan expansion)
« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2021, 03:02:22 am »
0

There is one Night that does not have the "Conditional" type:





F
IREFLIES - $3
NIGHT
You may reveal a Victory
card from your hand. If you
do, trash this for +2VP.
Otherwise, +1 Card at the
end of this turn.

Originally this didn't have the +1 Card alternative, but I think without it the card is almost unbuyable. You have a fairly good chance of getting a hit at the beginning of the game, but using an early $3 and slot in your hand for 2VP seems unlikely to be worth the tradeoff. At the end of the game when you've started greening, it's hard to be sure it will come back around before the game is over. Any other time it's a dead card too long. With this modification, it serves as a kind of concentrator, foregoing a card this turn for an extra card next turn. It's a relatively weak version of that, since you don't get to choose when to make that shift, and since it only gives you a one-card bonus that is vulnerable to being wiped out in a handcard attack, but it's at least better than nothing, and probably worth buying just before/as you start getting victory cards.

It also predates the idea for the set; I was playing around with Nights, VP tokens, and trashing. It fit the set thematically, so I brought it in.
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Re: Dominion: Summertime (a fan expansion)
« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2021, 12:54:22 pm »
+1

I think is reasonable for Summer Solstice, actually. It would be a strong , but it's much better for it to be a strong than a weak .
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Re: Dominion: Summertime (a fan expansion)
« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2021, 12:48:41 am »
0

Finally, the set has one Treasure and one Victory card:

PARASOL - $2          POND - $4         
          TREASURE          VICTORY -REACTION         
          $1
+1 Buy
You may flip a Condition.
          2VP
-----
When a Condition is flipped on your turn, you may discard this for +2 Cards, discard 2 cards.
         

Although both of these interact with Conditions, neither has the Conditional type.



It says "discard this to your hand." I assume that's supposed to be "discard this tofrom your hand," in which case it doesn't need the "from your hand," as that is implied with discarding.
Thanks. As you can see I made those changes and others.


It and Parasol both have the same problem, which is that they're only useful if you're playing with a bunch of Summertime cards. In my opinion, every card should be playable even if it's the only card you're using from its expansion. Both Pond and Parasol fail that test (w/o Conditional cards, Pond is a more expensive Tunnel without the Reaction, and Parasol is a Ducat without the on-gain effect that gives + instead of a Coffer, which is almost strictly worse than +1 Coffer).

I agree that "every card should be playable even if it's the only card you're using from its expansion," but I don't agree that these fail that test. Both are very buyable, especially at their particular price points. It's not at all uncommon to have Kingdom with no +Buys and no cards costing $2. If that's true of the other 9 cards, at least one or two Parasols contribute well as part of most strategies, especially if you end up with $2 in an early hand. Similarly, while greening at the end of the game, if you end up with $4 (or $12 and at least 2 Buys), 2VP for $4 is a no-brainer. Indeed, even if you had 10 Buys, Province + Pond is generally better than Province + Estate + Estate. It's also no accident that each card is exactly $2 more than their starting deck equivalent (Copper-->Parasol; Estate-->Pond); cards like Remodel, Replace, and Farmland can naturally replace one for the other (if that's what makes sense).

I also think your point about Tunnel and Ducat is incorrect. I generally agree that the strictly-better analysis is worth doing, because if the presence of one card means you would never buy the other under any circumstance, it tends to reduce the potential variety in the game, rather than increase it. But I don't think that analysis "stacks" with the "playable even if its the only card from the set" analysis. Ducat is not strictly better than Parasol, because in games where Parasol's Condition flipping ability is useful, you might well buy it over Ducat. Tunnel is (potentially) an even starker example. In a game with Tunnel, Pond, and one or more Conditional cards, if Pond is the only discarding available, then after you've bought one Tunnel, buying a Pond (which might allow you to take advantage of Tunnel's reaction) is significantly better than buying a second Tunnel, for only $1 more. And if you have Remodel or Displace, getting a $4 Pond that can subsequently be turned into a $6 Gold (or Fairgrounds, which could be Displaced into a Province), is a much better bet than getting the $3 Tunnel.


You could make Parasol and Pond non-Kingdom cards similar to Colonies and Platinums. 

That's an interesting suggestion. I haven't seen that implemented in other fan expansion, and there's not a lot of room on the base card design for text.
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Re: Dominion: Summertime (a fan expansion)
« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2021, 01:33:28 am »
+1

Ducat is not strictly better than Parasol, because in games where Parasol's Condition flipping ability is useful, you might well buy it over Ducat. Tunnel is (potentially) an even starker example. In a game with Tunnel, Pond, and one or more Conditional cards, if Pond is the only discarding available, then after you've bought one Tunnel, buying a Pond (which might allow you to take advantage of Tunnel's reaction) is significantly better than buying a second Tunnel, for only $1 more.

This would be why I said "w/o Conditional cards." If you don't have any Conditional cards, then it's a game where Parasol's Condition flipping is not useful, and Pond won't be able to react because nothing would be able to flip a Condition, which would make Pond a more expensive Tunnel without the Reaction, or a Cemetery without the on-gain effect. They are only useful in games with Conditional cards, which is why it fails the "do I need to be playing with other cards from this expansion for this to be useful test"; they both rely entirely on Conditional cards to be at all balanced.

Sure, Parasol still has a use in other Kingdoms if it's the only source of +Buys; but if it appears in a game with Ducat or Candlestick Maker and no Conditional cards, then it's effectively a 9-card Kingdom. Likewise, if Pond appears in a game with Tunnel or Cemetery, it's, again, a 9-card Kingdom. Saying that it's not strictly worse than Tunnel even in that situation despite costing more and not having an ability that Tunnel does because of Remodel variants is like arguing that a card strictly worse than Vanillage would be balanced at because of Remodel variants.

I guess I should amend "every card should be playable even if it's the only card from its expansion" to "every card should be balanced even if it's the only card from its expansion."

I agree that Parasol and Pond should be base cards. That would also give the "Conditional" type a better reason to exist; the rule would be that you include Parasol and Pond whenever any Conditional cards are in the Kingdom. And you don't have to use the base card design that has little room for text; you can just leave them exactly as they are appearance-wise.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2021, 01:47:49 am by Gubump »
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BBobb

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Re: Dominion: Summertime (a fan expansion)
« Reply #16 on: February 17, 2021, 03:09:08 am »
0

Great set, really cool. These are just some wording changes I suggest to you.


See Ironmonger for all of the changes.



I'm not going to do a full image redo since its a small change, but it should say a "Treasure card"




For the "during your turn change", see something like Haunted Castle. For the "draw two cards then discard two" change, see Diplomat.




For the removal of the parentheses, parentheses usually tell a rules reminder. e.g. Torturer. Otherwise, if it actually really matters, then you shouldn't have the parentheses. For the replacement of "trash a card" to "one", I think it just generally sounds better and reduces the length of the card's text. EDIT: Thanks to Gubump, I realized this probably isn't correct. Keep the last part as it was. (also, I know the image shows a semi-colon, but that was just a typo. Keep it as a period.)




First of all, what is the bottom part of this card? I don't understand it. For the removal of "immediately", see Vampire. For the changes with the playing, I think it just makes the wording simpler. For the addition of the "a" during the exchange parts, see Vampire.



I think that it should say +2 Cards, then discard two cards, but I'm not sure.




Maybe I'm just used to it, but I would move the cost reduction part to the end. All the other dominion cards are like that (I think). For the change from a colon to a comma, see Locusts, Misery, Gamble, etc.



Again, a long text, and a small change, so I won't create an image. That said, I would make it "Then, at the start of your next turn", following Horse Traders.




For making it a Victory card, since it scores at the end of the game, it should probably be a Victory card (and Donald X., I think, has said that he would make Curse a Victory card if he could go back and change it). For the addition of "a" and the removal of "immediately", see Vampire. For the change in the wording for playing the card, I think it is simpler and sounds more like other dominion cards. For the swap of the VP to the bottom and the text to the top, see Nobles, Harem, Island, etc.




For the removal of "immediately" and the addition of "a", see Vampire. For the removal of the second to the, that was probably just a typo on your part. For the making the second part one sentence, I think it better shows that it only happens if you didn't exchange it. For the change in playing the card, I think it is simpler and more like dominion cards.

For both the non-supply cards, they should still say "(This is not in the Supply)", I just forgot to put them on.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2021, 01:11:28 pm by BBobb »
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Hand - King's Court, Ruined Village, Estate, Copper, Possession
Turn -
BBobb plays King's Court
… and plays a Ruined Village.
… … getting +1 Action
… and plays the Ruined Village again.
… … getting +1 Action
… and plays the Ruined village a third time.
… … getting +1 Action.
BBobb plays a Copper.
BBobb buys a Poor House.
(BBobb draws: 2 King's Courts and 3 Possessions)
BBobb=GOD

Gubump

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Re: Dominion: Summertime (a fan expansion)
« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2021, 12:43:42 pm »
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For the removal of the parentheses, parentheses usually tell a rules reminder. e.g. Torturer. Otherwise, if it actually really matters, then you shouldn't have the parentheses. For the replacement of "trash a card" to "one", I think it just generally sounds better and reduces the length of the card's text. (also, I know the image shows a semi-colon, but that was just a typo. Keep it as a period.)

This doesn't function the same (or at least is more ambiguous as to whether it does).
"You may trash a card from your hand and you may trash a card you have in play" has four ways it can be played out:
  • Trash a card from your hand.
  • Trash a card you have in play.
  • Do both of the above.
  • Do nothing.
Whereas "you may trash a card from your hand and one you have in play" sounds like both-or-nothing.
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BBobb

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Re: Dominion: Summertime (a fan expansion)
« Reply #18 on: February 17, 2021, 01:10:22 pm »
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For the removal of the parentheses, parentheses usually tell a rules reminder. e.g. Torturer. Otherwise, if it actually really matters, then you shouldn't have the parentheses. For the replacement of "trash a card" to "one", I think it just generally sounds better and reduces the length of the card's text. (also, I know the image shows a semi-colon, but that was just a typo. Keep it as a period.)

This doesn't function the same (or at least is more ambiguous as to whether it does).
"You may trash a card from your hand and you may trash a card you have in play" has four ways it can be played out:
  • Trash a card from your hand.
  • Trash a card you have in play.
  • Do both of the above.
  • Do nothing.
Whereas "you may trash a card from your hand and one you have in play" sounds like both-or-nothing.
You're probably right. I'll change that in my post.
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Hand - King's Court, Ruined Village, Estate, Copper, Possession
Turn -
BBobb plays King's Court
… and plays a Ruined Village.
… … getting +1 Action
… and plays the Ruined Village again.
… … getting +1 Action
… and plays the Ruined village a third time.
… … getting +1 Action.
BBobb plays a Copper.
BBobb buys a Poor House.
(BBobb draws: 2 King's Courts and 3 Possessions)
BBobb=GOD

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Re: Dominion: Summertime (a fan expansion)
« Reply #19 on: February 17, 2021, 05:27:02 pm »
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For making it a Victory card, since it scores at the end of the game, it should probably be a Victory card (and Donald X., I think, has said that he would make Curse a Victory card if he could go back and change it).

I don't recall him saying that. I do recall him saying that Curse is not a Victory card because there are some cards that interact positively with Victory cards and he wants Curse to always be bad.
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emtzalex

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Re: Dominion: Summertime (a fan expansion)
« Reply #20 on: March 02, 2021, 01:31:37 am »
+1

Great set, really cool. These are just some wording changes I suggest to you.
Thanks! And thank you for all of the wording suggestions. I'm working on making most of them.



See Ironmonger for all of the changes.
Thanks for pointing this out, I do like to follow the wording in existing cards when I can, and I didn't think of Ironmonger. In this case I don't think it quite fits. The "it's" in Ironmonger refers to a single "it"--the card revealed--in each subsequent line. Here, two of the "it's" refer to "Rain/Dry" and two refer to "Easy Living/Hard Times" so I don't think it quite works grammatically. Since the lines are relatively short, I think the multiple uses of it's is okay.



First of all, what is the bottom part of this card? I don't understand it. For the removal of "immediately", see Vampire. For the changes with the playing, I think it just makes the wording simpler. For the addition of the "a" during the exchange parts, see Vampire.
The bottom part of the card is to prevent players from buying more than 5 copies of Full Moon. The thing about the way cards with the "Exchange" mechanic is that it is possible for players to buy more than 10 copies of it (even though the idea is that, for example, it's a Vampire that turns into a Bat and back, and therefore (in theory) another player should not be able to buy that Vampire. In the case of Vampire it's not that much of a problem for a few reasons: it's not that likely more than 10 Vampires will be bought; the way Vampire works (changing back and forth between Vampire and Bat) means that 12-14 could probably be bought without one of the piles running out; and even if they did, that's just sort of how the game works (just like how Magpie's self-gaining ability will eventually stop work once the pile is empty, which it almost certainly will be if multiple players are going after it), but the cards still basically function.

Full Moon/Bella Notte/Bad Moon are very different. First, as half a split pile there are only 5 copies of Full Moon, with 5 corresponding copies of the other card. Also, as soon as Full Moon is played for the first time, it changes to one of the two other cards, and never goes back, meaning players would almost always be able to keep buying them, and it would be much easier for one of the two piles to run out. And finally, the nature of the way the cards work is such that if one of the piles is out the cards kind of break. If it's Easy Living, it's not supposed to be possible for Bad Moon to be played without having it immediately change to Bella Notte (and thus, the text says that it would not give out Curses). It needs to be impossible for a player to get stuck with one because the other is bought out, so the Full Moons get set aside instead of returned to the Supply, and after 5 of them get purchased and swapped there are none left.

I suppose in theory I could have more copies of Bella Notte/Bad Moon, but I really intended for all three to function almost like a single card, which changes as it's played under different conditions (they nature of the game prevents them from being one physical object that changes, but if that were possible, it is how I would do it). I also don't think I want that many copies of these bouncing around and firing off again and again.

Regarding "immediately" I felt that I needed to add it to distinguish from how Exchanging usually works. All the cards that currently used the Exchange mechanic only do it during the cleanup phase, and the official rules for Travellers say Exchanging "only happens when the card is discarded from play; discarding it from hand, such as due to not playing it, will not trigger it."

You are right about "a" and I'm making that change.


Dog Days looks like it has the potential to be terribroken: normally fairly weak, but just once in a while it can destroy an opponent's turn.

Regarding Dog Days, my thinking on the attack was this: one thing I have heard (and somewhat observed) about terminal attacks with a cumulative effect (and why, for example, it's important for Sea Hag to discard previous Curses) is less the risk that one player will land numerous attacks, and more that in multiplayer games the attacks can accumulate quickly. My reasoning was that given that each player has the capacity to "turn off" the attack by swapping the condition, there is substantially less risk of that.

That being said, I have thought about it more, and I have realized that there is a fairly high number of potential Kingdoms in which there is a non-negligible possibility of a player building an engine that will, on almost all of her turns, draw her entire deck with enough extra Actions to play Dog Days 4-5 times. This means that there is the real possibility that in 6 of the last 7 rounds, only one player will get to do anything, which is Not Fun. (It doesn't help that along the way Dog Days can actually be useful in building the engine, as it is able to gain onto deck many engine components, including Smithy and most villages).

So I have decide to change it. Now when it's played as an Attack, the players who discarded get to flip, the Conditions, and have the ability to turn off the Attack, preventing endless use. This was actually how the card originally worked, but I felt it was too wordy in an already wordy card. I now realize that the card is wordy anyway, but I like how it works enough that I am at peace with it's wordiness.



Quote
DOG DAYS -- $4
ACTION - ATTACK - CONDITIONAL
If it's Easy Living: Gain onto your deck a Dog or a card costing up to $4 which is…
If it's Hard Times: Each other player discards (or reveals a hand without)…
If it's Warm: …an Action card.
If it's Cool: …a Treasure card.
Each player who gained or discarded a card flips Warm/Cool or Easy Living/Hard Times.


To compensate for weakening the attack, it now also gives you the option during Easy Living to gain a Dog, which is a new one-shot I am adding in the spirit of Horse:



Quote
DOG -- $2*
ACTION - REACTION
+2 Cards
Return this to its pile.
----------
When you discard this other than during Clean-up, you may set it aside. If you did, then at the start of your next turn, play it.
(This is not in the Supply.)


I recognize that Dog's reaction is on the strong side, but given that it's a one-shot I don't think it's too strong.

« Last Edit: April 29, 2021, 12:09:34 am by emtzalex »
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Re: Dominion: Summertime (a fan expansion)
« Reply #21 on: March 02, 2021, 05:01:01 pm »
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Dog Days: I'd suggestion cutting out the interaction with Warm/Cold and just make it gain a card costing up to $4 in Easy Living, and discard an Action or Treasure card in Hard times. This would make it simpler and less wordy while keeping the main parts of the card.
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