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Author Topic: Weekly Design Contest #104: Raise the Ceiling  (Read 16106 times)

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NoMoreFun

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #104: Raise the Ceiling
« Reply #75 on: February 09, 2021, 01:46:47 am »
0

Sly Merchant
Action/Duration - $4
Until your next turn, when you shuffle your deck, gain a Curse and include it in the shuffle.
At the start of your next turn, +$4
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Timinou

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #104: Raise the Ceiling
« Reply #76 on: February 09, 2021, 08:05:51 am »
+4

This contest is hard, especially since I'm a relatively "low-skilled" player.  :D



EDIT: Revised the cost to $1


At first glance, this appears to be a glorified Necropolis.  Most players will be able to play this like a Lost City if they time it right, but I'm hoping that this card would really shine as a way to play cards you've gained in the same turn.

I wasn't sure if this should cost the same as a Shanty Town or if it should cost $2.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2021, 05:09:53 pm by Timinou »
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mandioca15

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #104: Raise the Ceiling
« Reply #77 on: February 09, 2021, 08:10:26 am »
0

Potter (Action, $5)

+3 Cards
+1 Buy

If your discard pile has any cards in it, +1 Action.

A Margrave-Swashbuckler hybrid that rewards you if you play it at the right time.


Replaced by Armada, see reply #115.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2021, 03:09:15 am by mandioca15 »
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faust

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #104: Raise the Ceiling
« Reply #78 on: February 09, 2021, 09:00:50 am »
0

Potter (Action, $5)

+3 Cards
+1 Buy

If your discard pile has any cards in it, +1 Action.

A Margrave-Swashbuckler hybrid that rewards you if you play it at the right time.
This is too strong. There are enough boards where you can consistently activate Swashbuckler, and Double-Lab+Market Square is way too good of an effect.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #104: Raise the Ceiling
« Reply #79 on: February 09, 2021, 09:10:08 am »
+1

This contest is hard, especially since I'm a relatively "low-skilled" player.  :D



At first glance, this appears to be a glorified Necropolis.  Most players will be able to play this like a Lost City if they time it right, but I'm hoping that this card would really shine as a way to play cards you've gained in the same turn.

I wasn't sure if this should cost the same as a Shanty Town or if it should cost $2.
I'd try it at $1 - of all the states to check, 'is my deck empty' seems the rarest and most fleeting, even if combo'd with scavenger or messenger; the most common subtype of "is my deck empty" is probably going to happen when its all in your hand/drawn, so the +cards is moot then anyway.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2021, 09:45:04 am by spineflu »
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Timinou

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #104: Raise the Ceiling
« Reply #80 on: February 09, 2021, 10:06:57 am »
+1

This contest is hard, especially since I'm a relatively "low-skilled" player.  :D



At first glance, this appears to be a glorified Necropolis.  Most players will be able to play this like a Lost City if they time it right, but I'm hoping that this card would really shine as a way to play cards you've gained in the same turn.

I wasn't sure if this should cost the same as a Shanty Town or if it should cost $2.
I'd try it at $1 - of all the states to check, 'is my deck empty' seems the rarest and most fleeting, even if combo'd with scavenger or messenger; the most common subtype of "is my deck empty" is probably going to happen when its all in your hand/drawn, so the +cards is moot then anyway.

The +cards is helpful if you are able to play a gainer once you've drawn your deck before playing Secluded Village.  Of course, there are plenty of other ways to draw a card you've just gained, but they usually cost more.  I like the suggestion of a $1 cost and will consider that.  This is actually a modified version of a card that I had in a set from a previous WDC that could essentially be gained for free.
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mandioca15

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #104: Raise the Ceiling
« Reply #81 on: February 09, 2021, 01:39:54 pm »
0

Potter (Action, $5)

+3 Cards
+1 Buy

If your discard pile has any cards in it, +1 Action.

A Margrave-Swashbuckler hybrid that rewards you if you play it at the right time.
This is too strong. There are enough boards where you can consistently activate Swashbuckler, and Double-Lab+Market Square is way too good of an effect.

Would it work better as a $6, or does it require nerfing in some respect?
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emtzalex

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #104: Raise the Ceiling
« Reply #82 on: February 09, 2021, 01:49:03 pm »
0


Quote
Birthright - $6
Put a non-Duration Action card from the Supply onto your Birthright mat. At the start of each player's turn for the rest of the game, that player plays the card, leaving it there.
(This stays in play.)

A Prince variant, except that every player gets the bonus. Because of that, you have to design a deck and/or select an Action card that will help you more than it will help your opponent(s), even after foregoing a Gold (or other $6 buy) and despite the fact that each other player gets to use the Action card before you do.
This should either say "that player may play the card" or be an attack. Imagine putting 2 Remakes onto the Birthright mat...

I don't think it is an Attack, even if you put in a terrible card, because it effects you as well. I would echo the logic in Something_Smart's post from last week's contest about giving each player Snow, drawing an analogy to using Messenger's on-buy effect to give every player a Curse. When it affects the player playing the card the same as everyone else, it's not an attack. So dropping in a Remake would be a huge pain, but it would be a pain for everyone.

It would also be weird mechanically, as the card continues affecting the players throughout the game. If one player played a Moat at the exact moment that happened, would they remain unaffected for the rest of the game, while the other players kept using the Action? How would that be tracked? It seems counter-intuitive.

That being said, the case of a double Remake is a problem, and what I would not want is for a player who is losing to be able to just tank the game and make it so that no one will be able to do anything (or, if they have emptied one Supply pile, that their one Victory card in exile or on a mat will win out after everyone's deck is trashed and they slowly buy out the Curses and Coppers pile). The reason I did not want to do "may play" is that I wanted an option to be playing a harmful card that would hurt you less. But I may have to give that option up to prevent the card from being terrible.

Thanks for bringing this to my attention.

Also I see no reason for this to stay in play; it can just trash itself upon play.

I took the parenthetical language directly from Hireling, which seems like the most mechanically similar card. Given that the card continues to do something at the start of every turn, it seems both consistent with the other game mechanics and practical for tracking purposes to have a card there.

Also, while I am still mulling over mathdude's suggestion that I limited it to one use per player per game, I certainly do not want there to be more than 10 cards playing each turn, which could be done if you pulled Birthright out of the trash with a Lurker, Graverobber, or Rogue.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #104: Raise the Ceiling
« Reply #83 on: February 09, 2021, 02:02:25 pm »
0


Quote
Birthright - $6
Put a non-Duration Action card from the Supply onto your Birthright mat. At the start of each player's turn for the rest of the game, that player plays the card, leaving it there.
(This stays in play.)

A Prince variant, except that every player gets the bonus. Because of that, you have to design a deck and/or select an Action card that will help you more than it will help your opponent(s), even after foregoing a Gold (or other $6 buy) and despite the fact that each other player gets to use the Action card before you do.
This should either say "that player may play the card" or be an attack. Imagine putting 2 Remakes onto the Birthright mat...

I don't think it is an Attack, even if you put in a terrible card, because it effects you as well. I would echo the logic in Something_Smart's post from last week's contest about giving each player Snow, drawing an analogy to using Messenger's on-buy effect to give every player a Curse. When it affects the player playing the card the same as everyone else, it's not an attack. So dropping in a Remake would be a huge pain, but it would be a pain for everyone.

It would also be weird mechanically, as the card continues affecting the players throughout the game. If one player played a Moat at the exact moment that happened, would they remain unaffected for the rest of the game, while the other players kept using the Action? How would that be tracked? It seems counter-intuitive.

That being said, the case of a double Remake is a problem, and what I would not want is for a player who is losing to be able to just tank the game and make it so that no one will be able to do anything (or, if they have emptied one Supply pile, that their one Victory card in exile or on a mat will win out after everyone's deck is trashed and they slowly buy out the Curses and Coppers pile). The reason I did not want to do "may play" is that I wanted an option to be playing a harmful card that would hurt you less. But I may have to give that option up to prevent the card from being terrible.

Thanks for bringing this to my attention.

Also I see no reason for this to stay in play; it can just trash itself upon play.

I took the parenthetical language directly from Hireling, which seems like the most mechanically similar card. Given that the card continues to do something at the start of every turn, it seems both consistent with the other game mechanics and practical for tracking purposes to have a card there.

Also, while I am still mulling over mathdude's suggestion that I limited it to one use per player per game, I certainly do not want there to be more than 10 cards playing each turn, which could be done if you pulled Birthright out of the trash with a Lurker, Graverobber, or Rogue.
regarding the bigger problem of playing 10+ cards at the start of your turn, or double remake, or whatever, you could just have it replace the card on the birthright mat (which gets trashed or returned to the supply or something) - only one card there at a time.

Gubump

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #104: Raise the Ceiling
« Reply #84 on: February 09, 2021, 02:33:23 pm »
+3


Quote
Birthright - $6
Put a non-Duration Action card from the Supply onto your Birthright mat. At the start of each player's turn for the rest of the game, that player plays the card, leaving it there.
(This stays in play.)

A Prince variant, except that every player gets the bonus. Because of that, you have to design a deck and/or select an Action card that will help you more than it will help your opponent(s), even after foregoing a Gold (or other $6 buy) and despite the fact that each other player gets to use the Action card before you do.
This should either say "that player may play the card" or be an attack. Imagine putting 2 Remakes onto the Birthright mat...

I don't think it is an Attack, even if you put in a terrible card, because it effects you as well. I would echo the logic in Something_Smart's post from last week's contest about giving each player Snow, drawing an analogy to using Messenger's on-buy effect to give every player a Curse. When it affects the player playing the card the same as everyone else, it's not an attack. So dropping in a Remake would be a huge pain, but it would be a pain for everyone.

It would also be weird mechanically, as the card continues affecting the players throughout the game. If one player played a Moat at the exact moment that happened, would they remain unaffected for the rest of the game, while the other players kept using the Action? How would that be tracked? It seems counter-intuitive.

That being said, the case of a double Remake is a problem, and what I would not want is for a player who is losing to be able to just tank the game and make it so that no one will be able to do anything (or, if they have emptied one Supply pile, that their one Victory card in exile or on a mat will win out after everyone's deck is trashed and they slowly buy out the Curses and Coppers pile). The reason I did not want to do "may play" is that I wanted an option to be playing a harmful card that would hurt you less. But I may have to give that option up to prevent the card from being terrible.

Thanks for bringing this to my attention.

Also I see no reason for this to stay in play; it can just trash itself upon play.

I took the parenthetical language directly from Hireling, which seems like the most mechanically similar card. Given that the card continues to do something at the start of every turn, it seems both consistent with the other game mechanics and practical for tracking purposes to have a card there.

Also, while I am still mulling over mathdude's suggestion that I limited it to one use per player per game, I certainly do not want there to be more than 10 cards playing each turn, which could be done if you pulled Birthright out of the trash with a Lurker, Graverobber, or Rogue.
regarding the bigger problem of playing 10+ cards at the start of your turn, or double remake, or whatever, you could just have it replace the card on the birthright mat (which gets trashed or returned to the supply or something) - only one card there at a time.

You could also just make it a Project:
Quote
At the start of each player's turn, that player plays the card you set aside.

When you buy this, set aside a non-Duration Action card from the Supply.
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pubby

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #104: Raise the Ceiling
« Reply #85 on: February 09, 2021, 03:19:43 pm »
+1

« Last Edit: February 09, 2021, 03:21:56 pm by pubby »
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Gubump

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #104: Raise the Ceiling
« Reply #86 on: February 09, 2021, 03:35:31 pm »
0



1. Unlike with Bonfire, there's a good reason you might want to trash Durations with this, which introduces tracking issues. It should either be limited to non-Durations (see Procession) or to cards that you would discard from play this turn (see Improve).
2. It needs to specify "a card you have in play." It shouldn't be able to trash other player's Black Cats and Falconers.
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Mahowrath

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #104: Raise the Ceiling
« Reply #87 on: February 09, 2021, 03:44:08 pm »
+4

v0.1:
v0.2:
v0.3:


Quote
Omniscience - $0
Project

Play with your hand and deck entirely face up and visible. You may reorder your deck at any time.
-
When you buy this, gain a Curse if not all players have Omniscience, and another Curse if no other player has Omniscience, then put your deck into your discard pile.

Donate-esque gamechanger, with a penalty for buying it before others. Your deck becomes like a second hand to pick and choose from.

Edits: put into discard pile rather than discard deck; face up and visible rather than revealed to avoid reveal trigger shenanigans. Gaining Curses before putting deck into discard pile for consistency. Re-weighting of Curses to 2 for the Alpha and 1 for each other non-Omega to maintain the 2 Curse cost.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2021, 10:52:21 am by Mahowrath »
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Gubump

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #104: Raise the Ceiling
« Reply #88 on: February 09, 2021, 05:42:59 pm »
+2



Quote
Omniscience - $0
Project

Play with your hand and deck revealed (ignore on-reveal triggers). You may reorder your deck at any time.
When you buy this: discard your deck, and gain 2 Curses for each opponent that doesn't have Omniscience.

Donate-esque gamechanger, with a penalty for buying it before others. Your deck becomes like a second hand to pick and choose from.

This should say "put your deck into your discard pile" rather than "discard your deck," so as to not trigger umpteen Tunnels, Faithful Hounds, and Village Greens.
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Mahowrath

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #104: Raise the Ceiling
« Reply #89 on: February 09, 2021, 06:02:10 pm »
0

Aha, nice catch. Will update in original post
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Holger

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #104: Raise the Ceiling
« Reply #90 on: February 10, 2021, 04:48:48 am »
0

v0.1:



Quote
Omniscience - $0
Project

Play with your hand and deck revealed (ignore on-reveal triggers). You may reorder your deck at any time.
When you buy this, put your deck into your discard pile, and gain 2 Curses for each opponent that doesn't have Omniscience.

Donate-esque gamechanger, with a penalty for buying it before others. Your deck becomes like a second hand to pick and choose from.

What exactly do you mean by "ignore on-reveal triggers"? Do you ignore only the revealing itself or also whatever would happen to the revealed cards? I.e. does Wishing Well become a better Hunting Party or a do-nothing cantrip with Omniscience?
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Mahowrath

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #104: Raise the Ceiling
« Reply #91 on: February 10, 2021, 09:02:09 am »
+1

Better hunting party; I agree it's ambiguously worded.

Maybe "this does not interact with reveal triggers"?
adding also "Cards can still be revealed" - bit wordy.


Currently thinking of skipping the reveal trigger entirely with "face-up and visible".
« Last Edit: February 10, 2021, 10:09:59 am by Mahowrath »
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D782802859

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #104: Raise the Ceiling
« Reply #92 on: February 10, 2021, 11:45:38 am »
+3



A project that helps when you need it but hurts a lot when you buy it at a time when you shouldn't.
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Xen3k

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #104: Raise the Ceiling
« Reply #93 on: February 10, 2021, 12:55:31 pm »
+1



Quote
Coffeehouse - $5
Action
You may discard 2 cards for +4 Cards and +1 Action.
Each other player may discard a card for +1 Card.
-
While this is in play, after a player discards a card, they shuffle their discard pile into their deck.

A strong Lab Forum Stables variant that can be detrimental if your deck is not ready for it. Not sure how useful/broken this is. Certainly rewards players for trimming down their deck, which is already strong so I am unsure how wise that is. I had a lot of trouble finding inspiration for this challenge. Appreciate any feedback offered.

Edit: Changed it to be more of a Forum variant. Keeping the the "While this is in play" wording to make it definitive what happens when it is trashed or played from a zone and not put into play. Thanks to segura and BBobb for the feedback.

Edit 2: Changed the design again. Now you discard before drawing. This is a bit more interesting as you immediately shuffle the discarded cards into your deck before drawing the cards. This makes it more of a Stables variant, but stronger due to no restrictions to what you can discard but also drawing 4 after discarding 2, which is usually better. To balance this, in addition to possibly drawing the very cards discarded each other player can join in the fun by discarding a card to draw a new card. Still may be broken, but I like this design more than what I had before.

Quote
Old Version

« Last Edit: February 12, 2021, 12:56:50 pm by Xen3k »
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segura

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #104: Raise the Ceiling
« Reply #94 on: February 10, 2021, 01:05:23 pm »
+2



Quote
Coffeehouse - $5
Action
+4 cards
+1 Action
Discard 1 cards. Then, shuffle your discard pile into your deck.
-
While this is in play, after you shuffle your deck, put a card from your hand onto your deck.

A strong Lab variant that can be detrimental if your deck is not ready for it. Not sure how useful/broken this is. Certainly rewards players for trimming down their deck, which is already strong so I am unsure how wise that is. I had a lot of trouble finding inspiration for this challenge. Appreciate any feedback offered.
This is nearly strictly better than +3 Cards +1 Action Discard a card as drawing an extra card and topdecking a card is usually something you want and shuffling the discard into the deck is not such a huge drawback.
But +3 Cards +1 Action Discard a card is better than Forum (it is Lab plus Fugitive whereas Forum is 2 Fugitives).
So the card is overpowered.
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Xen3k

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #104: Raise the Ceiling
« Reply #95 on: February 10, 2021, 01:19:59 pm »
0



Quote
Coffeehouse - $5
Action
+4 cards
+1 Action
Discard 1 cards. Then, shuffle your discard pile into your deck.
-
While this is in play, after you shuffle your deck, put a card from your hand onto your deck.

A strong Lab variant that can be detrimental if your deck is not ready for it. Not sure how useful/broken this is. Certainly rewards players for trimming down their deck, which is already strong so I am unsure how wise that is. I had a lot of trouble finding inspiration for this challenge. Appreciate any feedback offered.
This is nearly strictly better than +3 Cards +1 Action Discard a card as drawing an extra card and topdecking a card is usually something you want and shuffling the discard into the deck is not such a huge drawback.
But +3 Cards +1 Action Discard a card is better than Forum (it is Lab plus Fugitive whereas Forum is 2 Fugitives).
So the card is overpowered.
Fair evaluation, and thanks. Instead of top decking, I originally had the shuffle penalty discarding a card. I also thought of making it a duration with some sort of delayed penalty, but did not continue further. Any thoughts on how shuffling could be made more of a valid penalty?
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BBobb

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #104: Raise the Ceiling
« Reply #96 on: February 10, 2021, 01:31:52 pm »
+2

Some wording changes:
Omniscience:
Play with your hand and deck entirely face up and visible. You may reorder your deck at any time.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When you buy this, gain 2 Curses for each other player doesn't have Omniscienceput your deck into your discard pile, and gain 2 Curses for each opponent who doesn't have Omniscience.

For the first change, see any card with an On-Buy effect, e.g. Forum, Port, Farmland. For the movement of the "gain 2 Curses" part, see Trusty Steed. For the change from "opponent" to "other player", see many Attacks, e.g. Coven, Villain, Black Cat.

Delegate: I have no wording changes for this one because I don't understand it. Is it like a once per game event? Then why is it a Project?

Coffeehouse:
+4 cCards
+1 Action
Discard 1a cards. Then, shuffle your discard pile into your deck.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
While this is in playThis turn, after you shuffle your deck, put a card from your hand onto your deck.

For the Capitalization of Card, see any card drawer, e.g. Sheepdog, Cavalry, Barge. For the change of "1" to "a", see Lost in the Woods, Oasis, Hamlet. For the removal of the pluralization of card, it is just simple English, but see Lost in the Woods, Oasis, Hamlet. For the final change, Donald X. has said that he is moving away from "While this is in play" and moving towards "This turn", so though it is not wrong, I still would change it.
That was just a phase. First I phrased things like "this turn," then I thought "no it should be while-in-play," then I worked out that actually I preferred "this turn."
« Last Edit: February 10, 2021, 01:49:43 pm by BBobb »
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Hand - King's Court, Ruined Village, Estate, Copper, Possession
Turn -
BBobb plays King's Court
and plays a Ruined Village.
getting +1 Action
and plays the Ruined Village again.
getting +1 Action
and plays the Ruined village a third time.
getting +1 Action.
BBobb plays a Copper.
BBobb buys a Poor House.
(BBobb draws: 2 King's Courts and 3 Possessions)
BBobb=GOD

segura

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #104: Raise the Ceiling
« Reply #97 on: February 10, 2021, 01:48:56 pm »
+1



Quote
Coffeehouse - $5
Action
+4 cards
+1 Action
Discard 1 cards. Then, shuffle your discard pile into your deck.
-
While this is in play, after you shuffle your deck, put a card from your hand onto your deck.

A strong Lab variant that can be detrimental if your deck is not ready for it. Not sure how useful/broken this is. Certainly rewards players for trimming down their deck, which is already strong so I am unsure how wise that is. I had a lot of trouble finding inspiration for this challenge. Appreciate any feedback offered.
This is nearly strictly better than +3 Cards +1 Action Discard a card as drawing an extra card and topdecking a card is usually something you want and shuffling the discard into the deck is not such a huge drawback.
But +3 Cards +1 Action Discard a card is better than Forum (it is Lab plus Fugitive whereas Forum is 2 Fugitives).
So the card is overpowered.
Fair evaluation, and thanks. Instead of top decking, I originally had the shuffle penalty discarding a card. I also thought of making it a duration with some sort of delayed penalty, but did not continue further. Any thoughts on how shuffling could be made more of a valid penalty?
I really like the "discard 1 card, shuffle your discard into your deck" part of the card and would keep it as the core. Making a card a Duration just for the sake of nerfing a card is pretty artificial in my opinion.
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BBobb

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #104: Raise the Ceiling
« Reply #98 on: February 10, 2021, 01:53:06 pm »
0



In a two or three player game this is fine. The problem is, that in a 4, 5, or 6 player game, no one would want to buy this. In a six player, game, you have to take 10 Curses just to buy the Project, which is insane. I don't think it scales very well. But the idea of the project is really, really, cool.
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Hand - King's Court, Ruined Village, Estate, Copper, Possession
Turn -
BBobb plays King's Court
and plays a Ruined Village.
getting +1 Action
and plays the Ruined Village again.
getting +1 Action
and plays the Ruined village a third time.
getting +1 Action.
BBobb plays a Copper.
BBobb buys a Poor House.
(BBobb draws: 2 King's Courts and 3 Possessions)
BBobb=GOD

segura

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #104: Raise the Ceiling
« Reply #99 on: February 10, 2021, 03:56:25 pm »
+1

The problem is, that in a 4, 5, or 6 player game
Who plays Dominion with more than 3?
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