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Author Topic: Dominion: Middle Ages (my fan expansion)  (Read 2062 times)

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DunnoItAll

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Dominion: Middle Ages (my fan expansion)
« on: January 30, 2021, 04:27:21 pm »
+1

Hi everyone! Long time Lurker(Action, $2), but I seldom post. I've been working on building an expansion to print and play with my group. I'd appreciate any feedback you can give so that they are the best they can be when I spend the money to do this! Thanks for any comments!

Dominion: Middle Ages - a fan expansion
https://dominion-middle-ages.weebly.com/

Luxury cards are included in a Kingdom's supply when a card with the "Wealth" type is also in the Kingdom.  It functions as an extra pile and does not count towards the normal 10 piles.  When emptied, it does count towards the three-pile (or four-pile) victory condition.

When played, ​Luxury cards stay in play until the player voluntarily discards them during clean-up.

Setup: Remove the Opulence card. Add one to the number of players. Shuffle that number of copies of each differently named Luxury card into a face-down pile, then turn the top card face-up. Put the Opulence card face-up on the bottom of the pile.

​Only the top card can be bought. When the top card is bought, turn the next card in the pile face-up (if it is not already).


Cards that trigger the inclusion of Luxury cards (Wealth cards):


Wealth split piles:


Other split piles:


Other cards:






Projects:

« Last Edit: January 30, 2021, 04:33:58 pm by DunnoItAll »
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spineflu

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Re: Dominion: Middle Ages (my fan expansion)
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2021, 05:08:01 pm »
0

are Territory and Emerald kingdom cards, or are they more like Platinum & Colony?
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DunnoItAll

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Re: Dominion: Middle Ages (my fan expansion)
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2021, 05:35:47 pm »
+1

are Territory and Emerald kingdom cards, or are they more like Platinum & Colony?

Like Platinum and Colony.
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LittleFish

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Re: Dominion: Middle Ages (my fan expansion)
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2021, 05:40:53 pm »
0

What is the reason for having Opulence at the bottom of the pile?
I'd also suggest changing the wording to:
Quote
Setup: Count out a number of each differently named luxury equal to the number of players plus 1 into a face-down pile, then turn the top card face-up. Put the Opulence card face-up on the bottom of the pile.
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DunnoItAll

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Re: Dominion: Middle Ages (my fan expansion)
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2021, 05:55:50 pm »
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What is the reason for having Opulence at the bottom of the pile?
I'd also suggest changing the wording to:
Quote
Setup: Count out a number of each differently named luxury equal to the number of players plus 1 into a face-down pile, then turn the top card face-up. Put the Opulence card face-up on the bottom of the pile.

I didn't want that pile being emptied to end the game, so I made it harder, but still possible. Not married to the idea, though.
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Carline

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Re: Dominion: Middle Ages (my fan expansion)
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2021, 06:03:02 pm »
+1

Congratulations for making you set.

Vegetable Patch puts Luxury pile in Kingdom but is better without them. If you simply ignore Luxury cards, you have a Lost City at $4, which is broken.
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DunnoItAll

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Re: Dominion: Middle Ages (my fan expansion)
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2021, 07:31:25 pm »
0

Congratulations for making you set.

Vegetable Patch puts Luxury pile in Kingdom but is better without them. If you simply ignore Luxury cards, you have a Lost City at $4, which is broken.

The card itself is better without them, but is your game better without them?
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Carline

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Re: Dominion: Middle Ages (my fan expansion)
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2021, 07:57:30 pm »
+1

Congratulations for making you set.

Vegetable Patch puts Luxury pile in Kingdom but is better without them. If you simply ignore Luxury cards, you have a Lost City at $4, which is broken.

The card itself is better without them, but is your game better without them?

I think so.

- Luxury cards: Cost $5. At first play they are stop cards or don't draw. Each one gives a vanilla bonus at start of your turns:

  - A free Copper every turn, not so good.
  - Fair effect, which with Fair costs $4 and is imediately activated.
  - Barracks effect, which with Barracks costs $6 once and is imediately activated.
  - Hireling effect, which costs $6, but Hireling is stackable.

- Vegetable Path, ignoring Luxury cards: Cost $4. Gives two vanilla bonus at each play (card and action). It's Lab + Village. It's stackable. It's not difficult to play every copy you have in all your turns if you have some of them.

This would be different only if Luxury cards are the only source of +Buy on Kingdom, but even in this situation I think I problaby won't go for them.

Lost City is a $5 Card with a penalty on gain, because it's too strong to be only a $5.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2021, 08:08:55 pm by Carline »
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LittleFish

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Re: Dominion: Middle Ages (my fan expansion)
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2021, 08:01:16 pm »
0

Congratulations for making you set.

Vegetable Patch puts Luxury pile in Kingdom but is better without them. If you simply ignore Luxury cards, you have a Lost City at $4, which is broken.

The card itself is better without them, but is your game better without them?

I think so.

- Luxury cards: Cost $5. At first play they are stop cards or don't draw. Each one gives a vanilla bonus at start of your turns:

  - A free Copper every turn, not so good.
  - Fair effect, which with Fair costs $4 and is imediately activated.
  - Barracks effect, which with Barracks cost $6 once and is imediately activated.
  - Hireling effect, which cost $6, but Hireling is stackable.

- Vegetable Path, ignoring Luxury cards: Cost $4. Gives two vanilla bonus at each play (card and action). It's Lab + Village. It's stackable. It's not difficult to play every copy you have in all your turns if you have some of them.

This would be different only if Luxury cards are the only source of +Buy on Kingdom, but even in this situation I think I problaby won't go for them.
Maybe lower the cost of luxuries, and increase the price of vegetable patch?
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DunnoItAll

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Re: Dominion: Middle Ages (my fan expansion)
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2021, 08:09:08 pm »
0

Congratulations for making you set.

Vegetable Patch puts Luxury pile in Kingdom but is better without them. If you simply ignore Luxury cards, you have a Lost City at $4, which is broken.

The card itself is better without them, but is your game better without them?

I think so.

- Luxury cards: Cost $5. At first play they are stop cards or don't draw. Each one gives a vanilla bonus at start of your turns:

  - A free Copper every turn, not so good.
  - Fair effect, which with Fair costs $4 and is imediately activated.
  - Barracks effect, which with Barracks cost $6 once and is imediately activated.
  - Hireling effect, which cost $6, but Hireling is stackable.

- Vegetable Path, ignoring Luxury cards: Cost $4. Gives two vanilla bonus at each play (card and action). It's Lab + Village. It's stackable. It's not difficult to play every copy you have in all your turns if you have some of them.

This would be different only if Luxury cards are the only source of +Buy on Kingdom, but even in this situation I think I problaby won't go for them.
Maybe lower the cost of luxuries, and increase the price of vegetable patch?

Think I probably should just come up with something more creative for Vegetable Patch than a Lost City clone.
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segura

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Re: Dominion: Middle Ages (my fan expansion)
« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2021, 03:07:33 am »
0

I donít get the Nest-Egg-Chicken thing. It has a decent chance of degenerating a lot of Kingdoms into a rush as those Chickens are the Evil Card That Shall Not Be Named until two green piles are out.
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DunnoItAll

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Re: Dominion: Middle Ages (my fan expansion)
« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2021, 08:33:19 am »
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I donít get the Nest-Egg-Chicken thing. It has a decent chance of degenerating a lot of Kingdoms into a rush as those Chickens are the Evil Card That Shall Not Be Named until two green piles are out.

They are so slow that a rush on them would likely be a pretty bad plan.
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DunnoItAll

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Re: Dominion: Middle Ages (my fan expansion)
« Reply #12 on: January 31, 2021, 02:19:10 pm »
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Think I probably should just come up with something more creative for Vegetable Patch than a Lost City clone.

I went here with it:

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Carline

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Re: Dominion: Middle Ages (my fan expansion)
« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2021, 02:09:25 am »
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Think I probably should just come up with something more creative for Vegetable Patch than a Lost City clone.

I went here with it:



Maybe it could be misread as cumulative. I mean, for example, if you have 4 differently named Luxury cards in play, you have 3.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2021, 02:12:17 am by Carline »
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DunnoItAll

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Re: Dominion: Middle Ages (my fan expansion)
« Reply #14 on: February 01, 2021, 06:23:16 am »
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Think I probably should just come up with something more creative for Vegetable Patch than a Lost City clone.

I went here with it:


Maybe it could be misread as cumulative. I mean, for example, if you have 4 differently named Luxury cards in play, you have 3.
Indeed.  Not thrilled with having to use asterisks to make it format decently, but:
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Gubump

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Re: Dominion: Middle Ages (my fan expansion)
« Reply #15 on: February 01, 2021, 02:27:14 pm »
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Think I probably should just come up with something more creative for Vegetable Patch than a Lost City clone.

I went here with it:


Maybe it could be misread as cumulative. I mean, for example, if you have 4 differently named Luxury cards in play, you have 3.
Indeed.  Not thrilled with having to use asterisks to make it format decently, but:


1. I put the text into the image generator without the asterisks and it looks fine to me.

2. You don't need the "exactly." See Devil's Workshop.
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segura

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Re: Dominion: Middle Ages (my fan expansion)
« Reply #16 on: February 02, 2021, 01:59:30 am »
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Think I probably should just come up with something more creative for Vegetable Patch than a Lost City clone.

I went here with it:


This is weaker than Village.
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DunnoItAll

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Re: Dominion: Middle Ages (my fan expansion)
« Reply #17 on: February 02, 2021, 05:33:21 am »
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Think I probably should just come up with something more creative for Vegetable Patch than a Lost City clone.

I went here with it:


This is weaker than Village.

Objectively, yes.  Do you feel it should be $2?  I'm not sure it isn't just closer to a $3 than a $2.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2021, 05:49:30 am by DunnoItAll »
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segura

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Re: Dominion: Middle Ages (my fan expansion)
« Reply #18 on: February 02, 2021, 12:53:46 pm »
+1

It is not as if we are comparing Mining Village and Mountain Village or whatever, these aren't benchmark cards and they can get away with power differences.
Village is a benchmark card and you should obviously not do a village that costs the same as Village while being clearly weaker. Shanty Town is fine at $3 because it is different enough from Village to be not clearly better or worse (sure, it is on average slightly worse).

You are totally right that the card is too good for $2, hence the obvious need for an overhaul.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2021, 12:55:18 pm by segura »
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DunnoItAll

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Re: Dominion: Middle Ages (my fan expansion)
« Reply #19 on: February 02, 2021, 01:15:39 pm »
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It is not as if we are comparing Mining Village and Mountain Village or whatever, these aren't benchmark cards and they can get away with power differences.
Village is a benchmark card and you should obviously not do a village that costs the same as Village while being clearly weaker. Shanty Town is fine at $3 because it is different enough from Village to be not clearly better or worse (sure, it is on average slightly worse).

You are totally right that the card is too good for $2, hence the obvious need for an overhaul.

So wait, is the only reason it needs an overhaul is because it is too good for a $2 card and not good enough for a $3? I would take the position that it's not that big of a deal that it's slightly worse than a Village at 3.  I would also much rather just move it to 2 than say the card doesn't work at all because it's value is between 2 and 3.  The concept remains intact at 3: it's a Village for kingdoms with no other villages - if it's the only one available and you need it for what you want to do, you must weigh whether adding Luxury cards is worth the damage to it or not.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2021, 01:22:30 pm by DunnoItAll »
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DunnoItAll

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Re: Dominion: Middle Ages (my fan expansion)
« Reply #20 on: February 02, 2021, 01:24:03 pm »
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Sometimes cost is a variable that you can change to fix a card. Here it is not for the very reasons outlined above.

Maybe I could add a Boon on gain or something?  On a related note, why on earth do the fonts randomly change on the card generator app?
« Last Edit: February 02, 2021, 01:28:19 pm by DunnoItAll »
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segura

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Re: Dominion: Middle Ages (my fan expansion)
« Reply #21 on: February 02, 2021, 01:30:13 pm »
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You can design cards that violate basic design principles. Just donít expect any applause if you take a benchmark card like Village, downgrade it vanilla-wise and keep everything else.

No official card does this for very good reasons. Hunting Party is obviously better than Lab but it isnít just Lab with some vanilla buffs. Thatís the issue here, your card is not a village variant like Shanty Town. It is just Village- which is nerfed fairly straightforwardly on the vanilla level. That is wrong, it is boring and it comes with a giant wall of text (i.e. there is a liability in the form of increased complexity due to more information on the card that is not compensated for by any great gameplay features that would justify this downside).
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DunnoItAll

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Re: Dominion: Middle Ages (my fan expansion)
« Reply #22 on: February 02, 2021, 01:31:52 pm »
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You can design cards that violate basic design principles. Just donít expect any applause if you take a benchmark card like Village, downgrade it vanilla-wise and keep everything else.

No official card does this for very good reasons. Hunting Party is obviously better than Lab but it isnít just Lab with some vanilla buffs. Thatís the issue here, your card is not a village variant like Shanty Town. It is just Village- which is nerfed fairly straightforwardly on the vanilla level. That is wrong, it is boring and it comes with a giant wall of text (i.e. there is a liability in the form of increased complexity due to more information on the card that is not compensated for by any great gameplay features that would justify this downside).

Fair enough.  I'll go back to the drawing board.
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DunnoItAll

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Re: Dominion: Middle Ages (my fan expansion)
« Reply #23 on: February 02, 2021, 01:47:27 pm »
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Gubump

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Re: Dominion: Middle Ages (my fan expansion)
« Reply #24 on: February 02, 2021, 01:55:57 pm »
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This needs the Fate type to use Boons.
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All of my fan card mockups are credited to Shard of Honor and his Dominion Card Image Generator (the new fork).
If you're having font issues with the generator, click this link and click on the button to request temporary access to the demo server that loads the font.
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