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Author Topic: Weekly Design Contest #103: Design a Card that interacts with snow  (Read 23176 times)

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Gubump

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #103: Design a Card that interacts with snow
« Reply #25 on: January 29, 2021, 01:15:30 pm »
+1



Quote
Ice Castle | Action | $5
The next time you play a card this turn, trash it. If it's a Treasure, +$2. Otherwise, gain a card costing up to $1 more and +2 Cards.
-
When you gain or trash this, each player gains a Snow

Buying one of these "junks" everyone, but you're pretty happy to have that "junk." Ice castles love snow, after all! Playing Ice Castle followed by a Snow turns that Snow into a Horses that gain you a $4! Of course, you're going to have trouble playing an Ice Castle and then a Snow, so without Villages, it'll be still hard. And in a game with some junking (Snow) it'll be even harder to line them up. Good thing this is a kind of trasher -- You can think of this like a more flexible Money Lender. Trash coppers in the beginning, and when you're desperate, well you can always turn this into a terminal silver at end of turn and then trash your gold. Great use for your cursed gold, as well.

This can trash Night cards. The +2 Cards you get aren't going to be useful, but the more flexible remaking can be useful. At the end of the game, if you don't have enough Treasures to buy a Duchy, end your Action phase with Ice Castle, then play a Vampire, gain a Duchy, and then trashing the Vampire to gain another duchy (and +2 cards).

Rats, Fortress, self-trashing cards, there's lot's of fun combos with this. The difficulty is having enough actions to do it all, of course.

open to feedback, of course! The one thing I was debating on was the "if you trash" part of the clause, but I think it's fun and gives you another reason to trash your snow castles with snow castles.

Would it trash a Vampire though or does it lose track because of the exchange? (the only official "The next time you play a card this turn" card is Kiln, and since it gains it doesn't care about where the played card is. Also it uses the word first, so you could do that here?
That's feels weird, though, trashing the Vampire then playing it. (and in that case, would the exchange then fail?)

One last note with this - if we determine you don't trash the Vampire (or other cards that move on play, like Horse), then the Otherwise becomes ambiguous. Would it occur if you don't trash (as opposed to if you do trash a non Treasure)

The "otherwise" refers to it being a non-Treasure, it doesn't care whether you successfully trashed the played card.
I agree that it needs to be more specific about whether the trashing is before or after resolving the played card.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #103: Design a Card that interacts with snow
« Reply #26 on: January 29, 2021, 01:17:05 pm »
+1



Eh? This card nets as being a cantrip, but it's a Laboratory now, pay back later kind of deal. No idea how to appropriately price this.

Very weak, I think. But a good idea nonetheless.
I am not so sure. If you can trash out of hand (Sentry, Lookout) or sift, this could be good. Plus, as always with Horse/Snow, Remodel.
The price is definitely correct, at $2 it would be too good.
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Gubump

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #103: Design a Card that interacts with snow
« Reply #27 on: January 29, 2021, 01:19:31 pm »
+1



I don't know if this is too strong with $5s, but the cantrip Workshop area is already covered by Sculptor, Cobbler and Falconer so I wanted to try something that gains $5s.
Note that this is not a conventional emulator, it plays a card from the Supply without leaving it there so it is "gain and play".

I think the comma changes the meaning of this from what you intend to being able to play any non-Command, any Action, or any Treasure. The comma should not be there.
Thanks, I already fixed it, it was a remnant from a previous version.

I would also recommend making it gain and then play a card just so that it's clearer that you keep the card you emulate. You could word it like Summon: "Gain a non-Command Action or Treasure card costing up to $5. Set it aside. If you did, play it." (The setting it aside in this case is for tracking, so you can't topdeck it with Watchtower and then play it without putting it into play.)
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anordinaryman

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #103: Design a Card that interacts with snow
« Reply #28 on: January 29, 2021, 01:19:57 pm »
0



Quote
Ice Castle | Action | $5
The next time you play a card this turn, trash it. If it's a Treasure, +$2. Otherwise, gain a card costing up to $1 more and +2 Cards.
-
When you gain or trash this, each player gains a Snow
[...]
At the end of the game, if you don't have enough Treasures to buy a Duchy, end your Action phase with Ice Castle, then play a Vampire, gain a Duchy, and then trashing the Vampire to gain another duchy (and +2 cards).
[...]

Would it trash a Vampire though or does it lose track because of the exchange? (the only official "The next time you play a card this turn" card is Kiln, and since it gains it doesn't care about where the played card is. Also it uses the word first, so you could do that here?
That's feels weird, though, trashing the Vampire then playing it. (and in that case, would the exchange then fail?)

One last note with this - if we determine you don't trash the Vampire (or other cards that move on play, like Horse), then the Otherwise becomes ambiguous. Would it occur if you don't trash (as opposed to if you do trash a non Treasure)

Yeah I just realized Vampire was a bad example. Snow Castle loses track, so the Vampire is not trashed. Good catch. This actually makes Snow Castle pretty good to use on Vampires (gain a free $5!). The draw back is you can't play any Treasures if you want to take advantage of this. I should have used an example like Devil's Workshop.

I didn't intend for the otherwise to be ambiguous, the otherwise was meant for non-Action card. The gaining happens regardless on if you actually trashed a card. If I wanted it to be conditional on successful trashing I would have used either "Trash a card to ..." or "Trash a card. If you did,..." clauses.

Thank you so much for your feedback.

This is my stab at improving the wording:

Quote
Ice Castle | Action | $5
After playing your next card this turn, trash it. If it's a Treasure, +$2. If it's not, gain a card costing up to $1 more and +2 Cards.
-
When you gain or trash this, each player gains a Snow

I believe this is unambiguous. The "It" is always satisfied from the previous sentence, the card you played, regardless of whether you were able to trash it or not.

I no longer use the "the next time" in order to very specifically say "After" to clarify that. Thanks to Gubump for that input.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2021, 01:23:31 pm by anordinaryman »
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #103: Design a Card that interacts with snow
« Reply #29 on: January 29, 2021, 01:20:43 pm »
0



Eh? This card nets as being a cantrip, but it's a Laboratory now, pay back later kind of deal. No idea how to appropriately price this.

Very weak, I think. But a good idea nonetheless.

I mean, even if it averages out at being a simple cantrip, which one could argue grants no benefit overall, I'd disagree. I think spiking in a turn is worth it if you need to achieve something meaningful and fast. Harbinger is a cantrip with something on top, which is more than the sum of Arctic Base's parts, yet I'd still take Arctic Base over it pretty much always.
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Gubump

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #103: Design a Card that interacts with snow
« Reply #30 on: January 29, 2021, 01:23:24 pm »
+1



Quote
Ice Castle | Action | $5
The next time you play a card this turn, trash it. If it's a Treasure, +$2. Otherwise, gain a card costing up to $1 more and +2 Cards.
-
When you gain or trash this, each player gains a Snow
[...]
At the end of the game, if you don't have enough Treasures to buy a Duchy, end your Action phase with Ice Castle, then play a Vampire, gain a Duchy, and then trashing the Vampire to gain another duchy (and +2 cards).
[...]

Would it trash a Vampire though or does it lose track because of the exchange? (the only official "The next time you play a card this turn" card is Kiln, and since it gains it doesn't care about where the played card is. Also it uses the word first, so you could do that here?
That's feels weird, though, trashing the Vampire then playing it. (and in that case, would the exchange then fail?)

One last note with this - if we determine you don't trash the Vampire (or other cards that move on play, like Horse), then the Otherwise becomes ambiguous. Would it occur if you don't trash (as opposed to if you do trash a non Treasure)

Yeah I just realized Vampire was a bad example. Snow Castle loses track, so the Vampire is not trashed. Good catch. This actually makes Snow Castle pretty good to use on Vampires (gain a free $5!). The draw back is you can't play any Treasures if you want to take advantage of this. I should have used an example like Devil's Workshop.

I didn't intend for the otherwise to be ambiguous, the otherwise was meant for non-Action card. The gaining happens regardless on if you actually trashed a card. If I wanted it to be conditional on successful trashing I would have used either "Trash a card to ..." or "Trash a card. If you did,..." clauses.

Thank you so much for your feedback.

This is my stab at improving the wording:

Quote
Ice Castle | Action | $5
The next time you play a card this turn, trash it. If it's a Treasure, +$2. If it's not, gain a card costing up to $1 more and +2 Cards.
-
When you gain or trash this, each player gains a Snow

I believe this is unambiguous. The "It" is always satisfied from the previous sentence, the card you played, regardless of whether you were able to trash it or not.

So based on the first paragraph (about Ice Castle losing track), I gather that it trashes the played card after resolving it. That's still unclear from this wording, IMO. It also has the same tracking issue with Durations that 1st edition Procession had.
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anordinaryman

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #103: Design a Card that interacts with snow
« Reply #31 on: January 29, 2021, 01:24:21 pm »
0

ah dang I didn't edit my comment in time. The new wording is this:

Quote
Ice Castle | Action | $5
After playing your next card this turn, trash it. If it's a Treasure, +$2. If it's not, gain a card costing up to $1 more and +2 Cards.
-
When you gain or trash this, each player gains a Snow

This does mean that playing a Golem next means you first play both the revealed actions, and only then do you trash the golem. It's confusing by in the same way that kings court - procession -kings court  etc is confusing.

Thanks for your help!
« Last Edit: January 29, 2021, 01:27:29 pm by anordinaryman »
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #103: Design a Card that interacts with snow
« Reply #32 on: January 29, 2021, 01:28:04 pm »
0



I don't know if this is too strong with $5s, but the cantrip Workshop area is already covered by Sculptor, Cobbler and Falconer so I wanted to try something that gains $5s.
Note that this is not a conventional emulator, it plays a card from the Supply without leaving it there so it is "gain and play".

I think the comma changes the meaning of this from what you intend to being able to play any non-Command, any Action, or any Treasure. The comma should not be there.
Thanks, I already fixed it, it was a remnant from a previous version.

I would also recommend making it gain and then play a card just so that it's clearer that you keep the card you emulate. You could word it like Summon: "Gain a non-Command Action or Treasure card costing up to $5. Set it aside. If you did, play it." (The setting it aside in this case is for tracking, so you can't topdeck it with Watchtower and then play it without putting it into play.)
I did think about Summon but the wording seemed artificial and less compact. "Play" is clearly defined in the rulebook, you put it into your play area and (normally) discard it in Cleanup.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #103: Design a Card that interacts with snow
« Reply #33 on: January 29, 2021, 01:30:36 pm »
0



Eh? This card nets as being a cantrip, but it's a Laboratory now, pay back later kind of deal. No idea how to appropriately price this.

Very weak, I think. But a good idea nonetheless.

I mean, even if it averages out at being a simple cantrip, which one could argue grants no benefit overall, I'd disagree. I think spiking in a turn is worth it if you need to achieve something meaningful and fast. Harbinger is a cantrip with something on top, which is more than the sum of Arctic Base's parts, yet I'd still take Arctic Base over it pretty much always.
I agree. Paddock is perhaps the most radical example of how bad the draw delay of Horses can be. The card becomes superpowerful from a net effects analysis (Lab plus Double Peddler) once a pile is empty, but you often cannot exploit it (long enough) due to the delay.
Arctic Base is more or less the other way around.
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anordinaryman

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #103: Design a Card that interacts with snow
« Reply #34 on: January 29, 2021, 01:30:58 pm »
+1



I don't know if this is too strong with $5s, but the cantrip Workshop area is already covered by Sculptor, Cobbler and Falconer so I wanted to try something that gains $5s.
Note that this is not a conventional emulator, it plays a card from the Supply without leaving it there so it is "gain and play".

I think the comma changes the meaning of this from what you intend to being able to play any non-Command, any Action, or any Treasure. The comma should not be there.
Thanks, I already fixed it, it was a remnant from a previous version.

I would also recommend making it gain and then play a card just so that it's clearer that you keep the card you emulate. You could word it like Summon: "Gain a non-Command Action or Treasure card costing up to $5. Set it aside. If you did, play it." (The setting it aside in this case is for tracking, so you can't topdeck it with Watchtower and then play it without putting it into play.)
I did think about Summon but the wording seemed artificial and less compact. "Play" is clearly defined in the rulebook, you put it into your play area and (normally) discard it in Cleanup.

For a fan card submission a long time ago, that won a contest, I did "Gain and then play." You could also use "Gain and immediately play." Both are pretty compact and help clarify. I didn't understand Builder until I read your explanation, so I think you could make it a little clearer.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2021, 01:33:53 pm by anordinaryman »
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #103: Design a Card that interacts with snow
« Reply #35 on: January 29, 2021, 01:40:06 pm »
0

For a fan card submission a long time ago, I did "Gain and play." You could also use "Gain and immediately play." Both are pretty compact and help clarify. I didn't understand Builder until I read your explanation, so I think you could make it a little clearer.
I am too stupid to get the stop-moving rule and the potentially weird interactions such a wording could have. Gain normally means that the card lands in your discard pile. "Gain and immediately play" implies that the card moves into your play area but I still think it can be misread.
Gubump mentioned Watchtower and I am not sure how "Gain and play" would interact with Watchtower, i.e. whether you could topdeck the card and yet still play it.

Play is clear, the card does not (potentially) visit an area it is not meant to visit and lots of other cards (Imp, Conclave, emulators) specify that a card is played from the hand or the Supply.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #103: Design a Card that interacts with snow
« Reply #36 on: January 29, 2021, 01:43:47 pm »
+1

Reading all the submissions is fun so far. keep it up!

Im refraining from asking any specific questions or giving feedback at this stage though, since that feels a bit "iffy".

But still, im having fun seeing peoples ideas!
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #103: Design a Card that interacts with snow
« Reply #37 on: January 29, 2021, 01:45:36 pm »
0

Gubump mentioned Watchtower and I am not sure how "Gain and play" would interact with Watchtower, i.e. whether you could topdeck the card and yet still play it.

Stop Moving only prevents cards from being moved, it doesn't prevent you from following its instructions. So Watchtower would topdeck the card, and then Stop Moving would prevent it from being moved to in play, but you'd still follow its instructions.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #103: Design a Card that interacts with snow
« Reply #38 on: January 29, 2021, 01:48:20 pm »
+2

Play is clear, the card does not (potentially) visit an area it is not meant to visit and lots of other cards (Imp, Conclave, emulators) specify that a card is played from the hand or the Supply.

The main issue isn't really clarity, but misread-proofing. All of the official cards that instruct you to play a card from the Supply also instruct you to leave it there, which makes it very easy to misread Builder as saying that when it actually doesn't (I did, until I read your clarification in your OP). I like Builder either way, personally.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #103: Design a Card that interacts with snow
« Reply #39 on: January 29, 2021, 01:54:30 pm »
0

I mean, even if it averages out at being a simple cantrip, which one could argue grants no benefit overall, I'd disagree. I think spiking in a turn is worth it if you need to achieve something meaningful and fast. Harbinger is a cantrip with something on top, which is more than the sum of Arctic Base's parts, yet I'd still take Arctic Base over it pretty much always.

Spiking is good, but this card doesn't really help you that much with that. You can't control how Snow's and Bases mix up. If you play 3 Bases and draw 3 Snows, you haven't spiked at all.

I suspect Harbinger is stronger. But btw, I'm not saying this is *too* weak, anyway, so it's not that important.

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #103: Design a Card that interacts with snow
« Reply #40 on: January 29, 2021, 01:54:44 pm »
+1



Eh? This card nets as being a cantrip, but it's a Laboratory now, pay back later kind of deal. No idea how to appropriately price this.

Very weak, I think. But a good idea nonetheless.
I am not so sure. If you can trash out of hand (Sentry, Lookout) or sift, this could be good. Plus, as always with Horse/Snow, Remodel.
The price is definitely correct, at $2 it would be too good.

The Snow-gaining can be less of a drawback in other situations too (and perhaps even desirable in some), e.g. if there are cards in the Kingdom that care about gains (e.g. Destrier, Sheepdog) or TfB where you want enough junk to feed it.  It helps that Snow has a cost of $3 unlike Ruins and Curses.   

I like Arctic Base.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #103: Design a Card that interacts with snow
« Reply #41 on: January 29, 2021, 02:12:49 pm »
+2

For a fan card submission a long time ago, I did "Gain and play." You could also use "Gain and immediately play." Both are pretty compact and help clarify. I didn't understand Builder until I read your explanation, so I think you could make it a little clearer.
I am too stupid to get the stop-moving rule and the potentially weird interactions such a wording could have. Gain normally means that the card lands in your discard pile. "Gain and immediately play" implies that the card moves into your play area but I still think it can be misread.
Gubump mentioned Watchtower and I am not sure how "Gain and play" would interact with Watchtower, i.e. whether you could topdeck the card and yet still play it.

Play is clear, the card does not (potentially) visit an area it is not meant to visit and lots of other cards (Imp, Conclave, emulators) specify that a card is played from the hand or the Supply.

The issue I see is that is is not clear you have "gained" the card.

There isn't any official case of "play"ing a card that is not yours that then becomes yours. Either you "play it, leaving it there" and it does not become yours. Or you gain it first, then play (e.g. Summon).

Consider Exile, that introduces a concept that allows you to move a card from Supply in such a way that it becomes yours without gaining.

Put another way: while still feeling weird, it makes sense it moves into your area, and then gets discarded into your discard pile (and is now yours). But it is no way clear that the card was actually "gained". Which would matter for several interactions (e.g. Smugglers, Trade Route, Treasure Hunter, etc).
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #103: Design a Card that interacts with snow
« Reply #42 on: January 29, 2021, 02:30:28 pm »
0

For a fan card submission a long time ago, I did "Gain and play." You could also use "Gain and immediately play." Both are pretty compact and help clarify. I didn't understand Builder until I read your explanation, so I think you could make it a little clearer.
I am too stupid to get the stop-moving rule and the potentially weird interactions such a wording could have. Gain normally means that the card lands in your discard pile. "Gain and immediately play" implies that the card moves into your play area but I still think it can be misread.
Gubump mentioned Watchtower and I am not sure how "Gain and play" would interact with Watchtower, i.e. whether you could topdeck the card and yet still play it.

Play is clear, the card does not (potentially) visit an area it is not meant to visit and lots of other cards (Imp, Conclave, emulators) specify that a card is played from the hand or the Supply.

The issue I see is that is is not clear you have "gained" the card.

There isn't any official case of "play"ing a card that is not yours that then becomes yours. Either you "play it, leaving it there" and it does not become yours. Or you gain it first, then play (e.g. Summon).

Consider Exile, that introduces a concept that allows you to move a card from Supply in such a way that it becomes yours without gaining.

Put another way: while still feeling weird, it makes sense it moves into your area, and then gets discarded into your discard pile (and is now yours). But it is no way clear that the card was actually "gained". Which would matter for several interactions (e.g. Smugglers, Trade Route, Treasure Hunter, etc).

As worded, you keep the card you play with it, but you never gain that played card.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #103: Design a Card that interacts with snow
« Reply #43 on: January 29, 2021, 02:49:09 pm »
0

For a fan card submission a long time ago, I did "Gain and play." You could also use "Gain and immediately play." Both are pretty compact and help clarify. I didn't understand Builder until I read your explanation, so I think you could make it a little clearer.
I am too stupid to get the stop-moving rule and the potentially weird interactions such a wording could have. Gain normally means that the card lands in your discard pile. "Gain and immediately play" implies that the card moves into your play area but I still think it can be misread.
Gubump mentioned Watchtower and I am not sure how "Gain and play" would interact with Watchtower, i.e. whether you could topdeck the card and yet still play it.

Play is clear, the card does not (potentially) visit an area it is not meant to visit and lots of other cards (Imp, Conclave, emulators) specify that a card is played from the hand or the Supply.

The issue I see is that is is not clear you have "gained" the card.

There isn't any official case of "play"ing a card that is not yours that then becomes yours. Either you "play it, leaving it there" and it does not become yours. Or you gain it first, then play (e.g. Summon).

Consider Exile, that introduces a concept that allows you to move a card from Supply in such a way that it becomes yours without gaining.

Put another way: while still feeling weird, it makes sense it moves into your area, and then gets discarded into your discard pile (and is now yours). But it is no way clear that the card was actually "gained". Which would matter for several interactions (e.g. Smugglers, Trade Route, Treasure Hunter, etc).
The card is not gained. Just like an Exiled or passed or exchanged card is not gained yet still becomes yours.
This is not a radical idea but just a slight modification of emulators that is, at least IMO, the most compact and rule-issue-preventing way to implement the idea.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2021, 02:52:10 pm by segura »
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #103: Design a Card that interacts with snow
« Reply #44 on: January 29, 2021, 03:11:07 pm »
+1



Eh? This card nets as being a cantrip, but it's a Laboratory now, pay back later kind of deal. No idea how to appropriately price this.

Very weak, I think. But a good idea nonetheless.
I am not so sure. If you can trash out of hand (Sentry, Lookout) or sift, this could be good. Plus, as always with Horse/Snow, Remodel.
The price is definitely correct, at $2 it would be too good.

The Snow-gaining can be less of a drawback in other situations too (and perhaps even desirable in some), e.g. if there are cards in the Kingdom that care about gains (e.g. Destrier, Sheepdog) or TfB where you want enough junk to feed it.  It helps that Snow has a cost of $3 unlike Ruins and Curses.   

I like Arctic Base.

I would be surprised if it were too weak for $4 even. I think it compares pretty favorably to Secret Passage. Although the $3/$4 price difference is fairly small anyways so it doesn't really matter.
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segura

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #103: Design a Card that interacts with snow
« Reply #45 on: January 29, 2021, 03:22:12 pm »
0



Eh? This card nets as being a cantrip, but it's a Laboratory now, pay back later kind of deal. No idea how to appropriately price this.

Very weak, I think. But a good idea nonetheless.
I am not so sure. If you can trash out of hand (Sentry, Lookout) or sift, this could be good. Plus, as always with Horse/Snow, Remodel.
The price is definitely correct, at $2 it would be too good.

The Snow-gaining can be less of a drawback in other situations too (and perhaps even desirable in some), e.g. if there are cards in the Kingdom that care about gains (e.g. Destrier, Sheepdog) or TfB where you want enough junk to feed it.  It helps that Snow has a cost of $3 unlike Ruins and Curses.   

I like Arctic Base.

I would be surprised if it were too weak for $4 even. I think it compares pretty favorably to Secret Passage. Although the $3/$4 price difference is fairly small anyways so it doesn't really matter.
I disagree. Would you ever prefer this over Caravan or Advisor?
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infangthief

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #103: Design a Card that interacts with snow
« Reply #46 on: January 29, 2021, 03:34:40 pm »
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I mean, even if it averages out at being a simple cantrip, which one could argue grants no benefit overall, I'd disagree. I think spiking in a turn is worth it if you need to achieve something meaningful and fast. Harbinger is a cantrip with something on top, which is more than the sum of Arctic Base's parts, yet I'd still take Arctic Base over it pretty much always.

Spiking is good, but this card doesn't really help you that much with that. You can't control how Snow's and Bases mix up. If you play 3 Bases and draw 3 Snows, you haven't spiked at all.

Not sure quite what counts as spiking, but compared to a cantrip Arctic Base certainly increases the irregularity of how good the draw is. And the first Arctic Base you play will not draw any Snows (at least, none that were gained via Arctic Base!).
If you want to increase the irregularity still further, you could increase the draw by one and gain an extra snow - I've been considering such things for my Snowball entry, which is along similar lines.
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silverspawn

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #103: Design a Card that interacts with snow
« Reply #47 on: January 29, 2021, 03:38:34 pm »
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Not sure quite what counts as spiking, but compared to a cantrip Arctic Base certainly increases the irregularity of how good the draw is. And the first Arctic Base you play will not draw any Snows (at least, none that were gained via Arctic Base!).
If you want to increase the irregularity still further, you could increase the draw by one and gain an extra snow - I've been considering such things for my Snowball entry, which is along similar lines.

Yes, it does increase variance and thus spikes somewhat, but it spikes much less than something like tactician.

(I typed a post suggesting +3 Cards, gain 2 snow earlier, the same thing you just suggested, but then decided that would be too strong and the card is better as-is, being (I think) on the weak side.)

Aquila

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #103: Design a Card that interacts with snow
« Reply #48 on: January 29, 2021, 03:47:27 pm »
+4

Quote
Snowdrift - Action Attack Duration, $4 cost.
At the start of your next turn, + $2. Until then, when another player trashes a card other than a Snow, they gain a Snow.
-
When you gain this, you may play it.
What kind of crazy thing is this, opening $4/3 guaranteeing a $5 on turn 2? Well next turn terminal silver is not great to carry in the deck afterward. It's all about the trash attack, so coming in early (as is needed for trashing) shapes the game away from the usual trash meta. You can try to anticipate when an opponent will trash and catch them out.
Or at least that's my thinking. Tell me it's too swingy, or it needs something to guarantee trashing is in the game.
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scolapasta

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #103: Design a Card that interacts with snow
« Reply #49 on: January 29, 2021, 04:13:06 pm »
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For a fan card submission a long time ago, I did "Gain and play." You could also use "Gain and immediately play." Both are pretty compact and help clarify. I didn't understand Builder until I read your explanation, so I think you could make it a little clearer.
I am too stupid to get the stop-moving rule and the potentially weird interactions such a wording could have. Gain normally means that the card lands in your discard pile. "Gain and immediately play" implies that the card moves into your play area but I still think it can be misread.
Gubump mentioned Watchtower and I am not sure how "Gain and play" would interact with Watchtower, i.e. whether you could topdeck the card and yet still play it.

Play is clear, the card does not (potentially) visit an area it is not meant to visit and lots of other cards (Imp, Conclave, emulators) specify that a card is played from the hand or the Supply.

The issue I see is that is is not clear you have "gained" the card.

There isn't any official case of "play"ing a card that is not yours that then becomes yours. Either you "play it, leaving it there" and it does not become yours. Or you gain it first, then play (e.g. Summon).

Consider Exile, that introduces a concept that allows you to move a card from Supply in such a way that it becomes yours without gaining.

Put another way: while still feeling weird, it makes sense it moves into your area, and then gets discarded into your discard pile (and is now yours). But it is no way clear that the card was actually "gained". Which would matter for several interactions (e.g. Smugglers, Trade Route, Treasure Hunter, etc).
The card is not gained. Just like an Exiled or passed or exchanged card is not gained yet still becomes yours.
This is not a radical idea but just a slight modification of emulators that is, at least IMO, the most compact and rule-issue-preventing way to implement the idea.


Your initial post (emphasis mine) said:

I don't know if this is too strong with $5s, but the cantrip Workshop area is already covered by Sculptor, Cobbler and Falconer so I wanted to try something that gains $5s.
Note that this is not a conventional emulator, it plays a card from the Supply without leaving it there so it is "gain and play".

So I assumed the intention was that it was gained. So yeah, if intent is not gained, it seems to work as it written.

But I still maintain that not gaining (especially in this circumstance) is weird. I can understand it (mostly) for exchange and pass, but I never liked it for exile either. I would imagine Donald specifically decided to not do it for Summon, though that was a long while back so he might feel differently now.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2021, 04:52:54 pm by scolapasta »
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