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Author Topic: Boon Power Level Comparison  (Read 768 times)

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BBobb

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Boon Power Level Comparison
« on: January 28, 2021, 02:16:16 pm »
0

I was just wondering, how did the Moon's Gift go past playtesting? It is much, much weaker than the other Boons. Let me give a comparison. Let's put some of the Boons on a cantrip:

Field's Gift: +1 Card +2 Actions + (Bazaar)
Flame's Gift: +1 Card +1 Action You may trash a card from your hand. (Probably a 4.5 power level, considering it is almost strictly weaker than Sanctuary)
Forest's Gift: +1 Card +1 Action +1 Buy + (Market)
River's Gift: +1 Card +1 Action +1 Card at end of turn (More powerful than Caravan since it doesn't stay in play (probably 4.5 worth, maybe 5)
Sea's Gift: +2 Cards +1 Action (Laboratory)
Sun's Gift: +1 Card +1 Action Look at top 4 cards, discard any (Cartographer)
Wind's Gift: +3 Cards +1 Action Discard two cards (Forum)
Moon's Gift +1 Card +1 Action Can topdeck card from discard (Harbinger $3)

So, all of the boons are about a 4.5-5 power level (on a cantrip) while Moon's Gift is a $3 power level. I was just wondering if anyone had insight on this, or if Moon's Gift is more powerful than I think it is.
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Hand - King's Court, Ruined Village, Estate, Copper, Possession
Turn -
BBobb plays King's Court
and plays a Ruined Village.
getting +1 Action
and plays the Ruined Village again.
getting +1 Action
and plays the Ruined village a third time.
getting +1 Action.
BBobb plays a Copper.
BBobb buys a Poor House.
(BBobb draws: 2 King's Courts and 3 Possessions)
BBobb=GOD

segura

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Re: Boon Power Level Comparison
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2021, 02:57:53 pm »
+1

I don't think s a coincidence that the 4 Boons which you skipped are arguably also fairly weak:

Earth - There are 3 quasi cantrip gainers: Cobbler, Sculptor, Falconer. So Earth would like be around the $4.5 power level.
Sky & Mountain - Impossible to imagine as Kingdom card, who would want a cantrip that gains Treasures. But the effect is overall fairly weak.
Swamp - Hard to evaluate due to the randomness of Boons. We know from Druid how strong a perma Will-o'-Wisp gainer can be. But it is on average IMO weaker than Earth.

So Moon isn't the only weakish Boon. There are many situations in which it is stronger than Sky or Mountain.
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pubby

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Re: Boon Power Level Comparison
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2021, 03:23:09 pm »
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Most boons are only occasionally useful, and do nothing half of the time. Sure, +1 Card is like playing a Lab, but if you're drawing your deck anyway it may be a moot point. For this reason, I don't know how useful it is to assign dollar costs to cards without also considering how often they meaningfully activate.

Earth and Swamp are super super good because they do something significant nearly 100% of the time. I suspect this is why they were voted the two best boons last Qvist ranking.

Moon's Gift is terrible because in engine play, your discard pile is almost always empty, and when it's not you typically discarded those cards for a reason. It's an OK boon in slogs, money, and in the early game, but other boons (Mountain, Sky, Sun) are useful in those situations way more frequently. Donald mentioned that Moon once had a Scavenger-like effect, and honestly I wish he kept that. Discarding your deck first would make it useful more often.
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silverspawn

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Re: Boon Power Level Comparison
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2021, 05:25:30 pm »
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Swamp's gift >>> everything else. but yeah, the boons aren't all equally strong. I would agree that Moon is one of the weaker ones.
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Donald X.

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Re: Boon Power Level Comparison
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2021, 02:51:13 pm »
+1

I was just wondering, how did the Moon's Gift go past playtesting? It is much, much weaker than the other Boons. Let me give a comparison. Let's put some of the Boons on a cantrip:
A cantrip isn't the best way to compare them; it changes how much draw is worth vs. other stuff, and hey none of the Boon-givers are cantrips, what's up with that?

Moon's Gift is for sure weaker. It was important to keep the Boons as simple as possible (and then, I shouldn't have done Hexes, which couldn't manage simplicity). There are only so many simple things. You could obv. bump up Moon's Gift by adding Chancellor to it.
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heron

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Re: Boon Power Level Comparison
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2021, 09:02:43 pm »
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none of the Boon-givers are cantrips, what's up with that?
hmmm...

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Commodore Chuckles

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Re: Boon Power Level Comparison
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2021, 10:26:20 pm »
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none of the Boon-givers are cantrips, what's up with that?
hmmm...

Because that would be strictly better (except for Diadem, blah, blah) than Sea's?
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Gubump

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Re: Boon Power Level Comparison
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2021, 02:51:29 am »
+1

none of the Boon-givers are cantrips, what's up with that?
hmmm...

Because that would be strictly better (except for Diadem, blah, blah) than Sea's?

Boon GIVERS, not Boons.
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silverspawn

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Re: Boon Power Level Comparison
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2021, 04:52:41 am »
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You don't want them to be too spammable. There is no real diminishing returns to Boons, so if a cantrip-boon-giver were a thing, you may receive 5+ boons every turn a decent amount of the time. (Which is my guess for the reason.)
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Donald X.

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Re: Boon Power Level Comparison
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2021, 01:51:05 pm »
+3

You don't want them to be too spammable. There is no real diminishing returns to Boons, so if a cantrip-boon-giver were a thing, you may receive 5+ boons every turn a decent amount of the time. (Which is my guess for the reason.)
Yes it was too slow.
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AJD

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Re: Boon Power Level Comparison
« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2021, 03:24:06 am »
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none of the Boon-givers are cantrips, what's up with that?
hmmm...

Pixie is a cantrip though????
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AJD

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Re: Boon Power Level Comparison
« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2021, 03:27:36 am »
+2

none of the Boon-givers are cantrips, what's up with that?
hmmm...

Pixie is a cantrip though????

I mean I realize this isn't a counterexample to the argument against cantrips as Boon-givers, since you have to trash the Pixie to get the Boons, but it's just not factually  true that none of the Boon-givers are cantrips.
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Donald X.

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Re: Boon Power Level Comparison
« Reply #12 on: January 31, 2021, 12:16:41 pm »
+5

Pixie is a cantrip though????
Yes. But.
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