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Author Topic: New Weekly Contest: Fan Card Mechanics  (Read 6816 times)

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spineflu

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Re: It's a Wonderful Life
« Reply #225 on: March 23, 2021, 09:39:01 am »
0

Alright I'm gonna put my stake in this. I've started working on a set of 7, the seven wonders of the ancient world naturally, so apologies for any duplicates. Are seven entries as a set allowed, or should I just limit my entry to one?

Also a clarification, are the squares on the card meant to be for player cubes? Not sure if that part was explained.
pick the "best" one as your entry but feel free to post the others; and yeah the steps are where a player-cube would go - please don't consider "the amount of player cubes" as a design constraint though, use as many as you feel you need.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2021, 11:02:28 am by spineflu »
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spineflu

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Re: New Weekly Contest: Fan Card Mechanics
« Reply #226 on: March 25, 2021, 05:53:53 pm »
0

24 hour warning

Xen3k

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Re: New Weekly Contest: Fan Card Mechanics
« Reply #227 on: March 25, 2021, 06:48:28 pm »
+1

This will be using the "Builder Card" mechanic from Sanctum to allow contributing to the wonder.
I hope it is alright I just used the example one.


Number of Steps
2-3 player games: 5
4+ players: 7

To buy a Step, just like Sanctum, you discard the "Build Card" and pay the Step cost ($4 in this case).



Quote
Eldritch Gate
Wonder
$4 Step: Each other player Exiles a Curse from the Supply.
You may Exile a card from your hand.
Completion: Each player may trash an Exiled card per contribution. Then, each player discards all Curses and Coppers from Exile.

So, not sure how balanced or fun this would be, but I wanted to contribute something to this challenge. It is similar to a Coven that lets you Exile something from your hand as well as attack other players without attacking them. Even contributing later on is beneficial as it will still help mitigate the completion attack.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2021, 06:53:26 pm by Xen3k »
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DunnoItAll

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Re: New Weekly Contest: Fan Card Mechanics
« Reply #228 on: March 25, 2021, 08:37:40 pm »
+1

For my entry, I've tried to make a concept that minimizes the amount of downside accrued by a player for pursuing the Wonder objectives while still making the reward for achieving each step significant enough to justify the effort (while simultaneously not making it an auto-win). A tough balancing act, for sure.  The method was to introduce "Sacred Lands," a Treasure/Victory card that is used to build the Wonders (and also triggers their inclusion in the game in the first place). Sacred Lands is the kingdom card, and when it is selected for inclusion in the game, 1 or 2 Wonders are also randomly picked from a deck of them.

Sacred Lands cards are used in different ways to achieve each "step" of the Wonder.  Wonders are completed after 3 steps have been completed by a player, and no more steps can be completed at that point. The player that completes the third step gets the first reward, any player completing exactly 2 gets the second, and single step gets you the third reward.

Early game effort towards building the Wonder is mitigated by the Wonder's design. Each Wonder compensates you in some way for your effort (in addition to its normal advantage). For instance, for the sample Wonder, Great Pyramids, you must buy Victory cards. Great Pyramids' ability, lets you Exile or trash cards (except the first stage, which accomplished with only the default Estates you already have), somewhat compensating you for your effort. Other Wonders (I've included a second one just to show the idea) similarly compensate for the effort.

The differences between the tiers of Wonder-abillities is significant enough to warrant going after, but not game-breaking. Allowing an opponent to chase the big ability while you ignore it could prove to be debilitating, though, so you must weigh your options. An opponent could stock up on Victory cards and unload all three stages in one turn, too, though, so you have to pay attention.

The Wonder:


The Kingdom card that triggers the inclusion of the Wonder:


I chose to just put reminder text on the card and explain the concepts here due to space considerations. The Wonder is built in 3 stages. To complete a stage, you must simply do what it says at the bottom of the card for each stage:

Stage 1: At any time during one of your turns, discard 2 Estates.
Stage 2: At any time during one of your turns, discard 2 Sacred Lands (Sacred Lands are the Kingdom pile that triggers the inclusion of a randomly selected Wonder (Great Pyramids is one of them).
Stage 3: At any time during one of your turns, discard 2 Duchies.

The Stages must be completed in order (per player, so if player 1 completes Stage 1, he may next complete Stage 2, but player 2 must still complete Stage 1 before continuing). The completion of Stage 3 by a player means the Wonder is constructed and no more stages can be completed by any players.

A constructed Wonder confers advantages to all players who completed at least one stage.  The player the completed the Wonder gets the first advantage ("...you may trash or exile a card from your hand.". Any player who completed exactly 2 Stages gets the second advantage ("...you may trash a card from your hand."). Any player who completed just 1 Stage gets the third advantage ("...you may trash a Treasure card from your hand.").
---
Adding: just to further explain the concept, Wonders are not normal Landscapes in my version (you don't shuffle them in with Events, etc.).  They are an extra pile to be included in the game only when "Sacred Lands" is selected for the Kingdom.  This triggers a drawing of a number of random Wonders from the Wonders deck to include. You can choose one or two (it's Dominion, you can do whatever you want, really, but 1 or 2 is recommended). I'm showing here an alternate Wonder to show the kinds of things that can be done by tying these to Sacred Lands rather than having them be a normal Landscape on their own, since it's an important part of the design.  This is not part of the entry other than to illustrate the design concept:

« Last Edit: March 26, 2021, 11:52:09 am by DunnoItAll »
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fika monster

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Re: New Weekly Contest: Fan Card Mechanics
« Reply #229 on: March 26, 2021, 04:27:57 am »
0

Edit: Assumed rules:

Players can only Build once per turn

Build costs a buy

The effect of whos in the lead is Ongoing


« Last Edit: March 26, 2021, 12:29:34 pm by fika monster »
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spineflu

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Re: New Weekly Contest: Fan Card Mechanics
« Reply #230 on: March 26, 2021, 07:18:05 am »
+1

Im designing this with the premise that

Players can only Build once per turn



does building cost a buy with this? is the contributor bonus ongoing or once with this?

Shael

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Re: New Weekly Contest: Fan Card Mechanics
« Reply #231 on: March 26, 2021, 12:05:03 pm »
+1

This will be using the "Builder Card" mechanic from Sanctum to allow contributing to the wonder.
I hope it is alright I just used the example one.


Number of Steps
2-3 player games: 5
4+ players: 7

To buy a Step, just like Sanctum, you discard the "Build Card" and pay the Step cost ($4 in this case).



Quote
Eldritch Gate
Wonder
$4 Step: Each other player Exiles a Curse from the Supply.
You may Exile a card from your hand.
Completion: Each player may trash an Exiled card per contribution. Then, each player discards all Curses and Coppers from Exile.

So, not sure how balanced or fun this would be, but I wanted to contribute something to this challenge. It is similar to a Coven that lets you Exile something from your hand as well as attack other players without attacking them. Even contributing later on is beneficial as it will still help mitigate the completion attack.

Is there any reason why you don't use a separation bar instead of an empty line?
(^ I hope this formulation isn't too aggressive, I do not fully master this language)
Btw, I don't fully understand when the wonder is finished

The Wonder:


The Kingdom card that triggers the inclusion of the Wonder:


I chose to just put reminder text on the card and explain the concepts here due to space considerations. The Wonder is built in 3 stages. To complete a stage, you must simply do what it says at the bottom of the card for each stage:

Stage 1: At any time during one of your turns, discard 2 Estates.
Stage 2: At any time during one of your turns, discard 2 Sacred Lands (Sacred Lands are the Kingdom pile that triggers the inclusion of a randomly selected Wonder (Great Pyramids is one of them).
Stage 3: At any time during one of your turns, discard 2 Duchies.

The Stages must be completed in order (per player, so if player 1 completes Stage 1, he may next complete Stage 2, but player 2 must still complete Stage 1 before continuing). The completion of Stage 3 by a player means the Wonder is constructed and no more stages can be completed by any players.

A constructed Wonder confers advantages to all players who completed at least one stage.  The player the completed the Wonder gets the first advantage ("...you may trash or exile a card from your hand.". Any player who completed exactly 2 Stages gets the second advantage ("...you may trash a card from your hand."). Any player who completed just 1 Stage gets the third advantage ("...you may trash a Treasure card from your hand.").
---
Adding: just to further explain the concept, Wonders are not normal Landscapes in my version (you don't shuffle them in with Events, etc.).  They are an extra pile to be included in the game only when "Sacred Lands" is selected for the Kingdom.  This triggers a drawing of a number of random Wonders from the Wonders deck to include. You can choose one or two (it's Dominion, you can do whatever you want, really, but 1 or 2 is recommended). I'm showing here an alternate Wonder to show the kinds of things that can be done by tying these to Sacred Lands rather than having them be a normal Landscape on their own, since it's an important part of the design.  This is not part of the entry other than to illustrate the design concept:



I think you can just say "Treasure" instead of "treasure card" (like in Mine; there are exceptions when the other types are also mentioned like in Ironworks). Also, I really like the idea of a special card that is included in the kingdom with the wonder and the way you build them, have you thought about a way to precise that the card is in the kingdom with Great Pyramids? It's just an idea, but you can use the heirloom box (And use a new wording like, for example: "Emplacement: Sacred Land" where an emplacement is the condition and mandatory with the wonder).

For Hanging garden, it's the opposite: it's "Victory card" instead of "Victory" (like in Bureaucrat). I also think "you may spend an action" is less confusing than "you may use an action", people can think about using it like ways do: instead of playing it you do something.
I not sure if it's important, but maybe you should distinguish the way to build the wonder and its effect.

The Alchemist

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It's a Wonderful Life
« Reply #232 on: March 26, 2021, 12:06:56 pm »
+1

Without further ado, my take on the wonders!

   

I decided to go with the collaborative-project angle, with a wording more like the other landscapes. There are no kingdom cards, and like landmarks, there are no costs, the trigger to build is just always stated below a dividing line. The effect upon completion (fully advanced, a player cube on each space), is provided to all players and on every turn from the point of completion onwards, and is given by the main text above the line. The only distinction between players is provided by any bolded text that has slashes dividing the bonus. All players tied for first, the most cubes placed on the Wonder, get the first number, all players tied for second the second, etc., with no skipping of places in case of a tie. A player who places no cube gets no bonus, you can think of a Wonder as a delayed Project with an alternate cost as the buy-in. There is a front/backside to each card, with a two player and a three+ player variant of the Wonder.


While the above is my submission, here are few more cards to demonstrate the concept further:

   

   

The latter demonstrates that, where appropriate to reduce the First Person Advantage, an even number of spaces may be present on the Wonder. The decision for odd or even depends on the nature of the buy-in: for Great Library, an odd number reduces FPA, as the second player can always choose to discard 4 to catch up to match the first player.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2021, 12:08:12 pm by The Alchemist »
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Xen3k

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Re: New Weekly Contest: Fan Card Mechanics
« Reply #233 on: March 26, 2021, 12:16:47 pm »
0

This will be using the "Builder Card" mechanic from Sanctum to allow contributing to the wonder.
I hope it is alright I just used the example one.


Number of Steps
2-3 player games: 5
4+ players: 7

To buy a Step, just like Sanctum, you discard the "Build Card" and pay the Step cost ($4 in this case).



Quote
Eldritch Gate
Wonder
$4 Step: Each other player Exiles a Curse from the Supply.
You may Exile a card from your hand.
Completion: Each player may trash an Exiled card per contribution. Then, each player discards all Curses and Coppers from Exile.

So, not sure how balanced or fun this would be, but I wanted to contribute something to this challenge. It is similar to a Coven that lets you Exile something from your hand as well as attack other players without attacking them. Even contributing later on is beneficial as it will still help mitigate the completion attack.

Is there any reason why you don't use a separation bar instead of an empty line?
(^ I hope this formulation isn't too aggressive, I do not fully master this language)
Btw, I don't fully understand when the wonder is finished

There is no real reason for using a blank line and not a divider other than the example provided HERE. The Wonder is completed when all Steps are completed (all players can contribute) which is dependent on the number of players: 2-3 player games-5 steps &
4+ players: 7 steps.

No problem with the question, I did post that rather hastily and so it may not have been completely clear.
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fika monster

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Re: New Weekly Contest: Fan Card Mechanics
« Reply #234 on: March 26, 2021, 12:30:05 pm »
+1

Im designing this with the premise that

Players can only Build once per turn



does building cost a buy with this? is the contributor bonus ongoing or once with this?

Meant to be that Building costs a buy, and that the contributor bonus is ongoing.
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Shael

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Re: New Weekly Contest: Fan Card Mechanics
« Reply #235 on: March 26, 2021, 02:35:47 pm »
+1

Quote
There is no real reason for using a blank line and not a divider other than the example provided HERE. The Wonder is completed when all Steps are completed (all players can contribute) which is dependent on the number of players: 2-3 player games-5 steps &
4+ players: 7 steps.
No problem with the question, I did post that rather hastily and so it may not have been completely clear.

Ho, I haven't see this on Great Wall, sorry.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2021, 03:22:09 pm by Shael »
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mathdude

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Re: New Weekly Contest: Fan Card Mechanics
« Reply #236 on: March 26, 2021, 03:34:39 pm »
+1

Here's what I feel is a fairly simple but effective Wonder:



It offers a permanent benefit for every step (1VP) and a temporary benefit for every step (set aside useless cards, such as Estates).  It offers incentive to be the largest contributor as they keep all their cards set aside from each step.  But at some point, lesser contributors will probably stop contributing, as that means they are getting close to completion when some of their cards will return to their deck, thus making it harder for the main contributor to trigger that point, which seems thematic with building a Wonder (some cooperation, but if one person is going to get all/most of the glory, others may stop which makes finishing it harder).  It also scales with number of players, like many Landmark cards too.  It could also work in 5 or 6 player games (5th and 6th contributors keeping 1/5 and 1/6 set aside), but that got to be more text than I wanted on there.  But triggering the return of people's junk cards to their deck seems like a good reason to push for the finish of a Wonder, which could happen as early as the last player's 6th turn, or may happen closer to endgame, but it will make their decks more difficult to manage too.  Also, many Wonders get started but not finished, which may be the case here.  That's part of the reason for the +1VP per build, to incentivize building.
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spineflu

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Re: New Weekly Contest: Fan Card Mechanics
« Reply #237 on: March 26, 2021, 06:26:18 pm »
+3

i'm gonna call it here; i'll have judging posted tomorrow.

johntgrizzz

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Re: New Weekly Contest: Fan Card Mechanics
« Reply #238 on: March 27, 2021, 03:04:18 pm »
0

Quote
I don't know if it's intentional but if only one player is the main contributor, he gain 2 province, two Duchy and a lot of verry good card (and yes, also two copper but it's stil verry strong).
An other thing (and I think this one isn't intentional) but in a majoity of board, no one want to make the two first steps of this if they are forced to gain Copper.

Yeah! Intended to be very strong if one player can solely win the wonder, but relatively weak if contested.
Ahh, I didn't intend the steps to have to be taken in order? Thought it was more of A Jeopardy situation where you can fill in as you go. That way, the copper buys can be something you do as part of a late rush, or with extra buys midgame if you have decent deck-control that can handle the junk.
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Shael

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Re: New Weekly Contest: Fan Card Mechanics
« Reply #239 on: March 27, 2021, 04:57:36 pm »
0

Yeah! Intended to be very strong if one player can solely win the wonder, but relatively weak if contested.
Ahh, I didn't intend the steps to have to be taken in order? Thought it was more of A Jeopardy situation where you can fill in as you go. That way, the copper buys can be something you do as part of a late rush, or with extra buys midgame if you have decent deck-control that can handle the junk.

I advice you to precise that you can build the wonder in any order to avoid the confusion. Not directly in the card (because I assume that all you wonder will follow this rule) but just say it somewhere in your post.
Also, I haven't understand the meaning of "Jeopardy situation".

Shael

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Re: New Weekly Contest: Fan Card Mechanics
« Reply #240 on: March 29, 2021, 03:55:54 pm »
0

i'm gonna call it here; i'll have judging posted tomorrow.
Hmmm... I think I have a problem, I don't recieve message here since March 27. (my last message)

mathdude

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Re: New Weekly Contest: Fan Card Mechanics
« Reply #241 on: March 29, 2021, 06:01:47 pm »
+2

i'm gonna call it here; i'll have judging posted tomorrow.
Hmmm... I think I have a problem, I don't recieve message here since March 27. (my last message)

This is normal. Judging always seems to take longer than people anticipate.
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spineflu

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Re: New Weekly Contest: Fan Card Mechanics
« Reply #242 on: March 29, 2021, 09:00:36 pm »
+2

i'm gonna call it here; i'll have judging posted tomorrow.
Hmmm... I think I have a problem, I don't recieve message here since March 27. (my last message)

This is normal. Judging always seems to take longer than people anticipate.

yeah i got a group project dumped on me last minute (thanks covid); I'm judging rn and will hopefully have it up tonight.

spineflu

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Re: New Weekly Contest: Fan Card Mechanics
« Reply #243 on: March 29, 2021, 09:55:39 pm »
+4

First off, thank you all for the patience with this, and with this contest in general. I understand this was not an easy mechanic to design for, and the four-line requirement exacerbated that.

Without further Ado:

Fan Mechanic Contest #5 Judgment


Grand Library - Aquila
Steps: 4/player

As always, the analysis of the mechnaic you've provided is thorough and appreciated.
This entry is solidly balanced for the build cost, with the rewards for the majority player(s) very strong. I think the reward for second is interesting, but probably should be nerfed in 2p games? Maybe their token has to go on the same pile as the majority contributor's tokens or something.
Finalist

Hanging Gardens + Marble (build card) + Hanging Gardens - emtzalex
Steps: 2p - 8 / 3+p - 12

I think the build card you designed is ideal - not too intrusive in the game, can make for some interesting decisions as to when to build, just, A+ effort on that.
The Gardens Tier and Exile power though, as well as the build cost, I feel like you'd be better off just ignoring the Wonder unless you can muscle through all the steps. Too many steps for what it's doing until its finished (self-junking via Green), and then only the majority contributor can do the exile switcheroos. I'd consider having the Step be a. cheaper and/or b. exile the gardens tier, rather than gain it (and then on completion, everyone discards-from-exile their gardens tiers)
Balancewise on the gardens tiers, I think 2 per 16 cards rounded down, pointwise that's good, but i feel like you'll rarely get those to more than 4vp each. 1 per 8 was no good?

Colossus - Shael
Steps: 6 (fixed)

I think this will be especially brutal in Ambassador games. I really like your rule about only after the first victory card is gained, that's a good approach for this. I'm not sure the Duchy flooding would be worth it in no-attack games, and given the terminality of most attacks, I'm not sure I'd want to use it. Great format, not great instance.

Great Ziggurat - johntgrizzz
Steps: 18 (fixed)

Interesting. I don't know that the first four steps would be worth going for - I'd consider starting it at 2, skipping 7s, and having it be "gain a card costing up to the cost of the step" instead of "exactly the cost of the step" - really has quite a bit of opportunity cost as entered. I don't think it'll usually get built in 2p, although 3+ I can see it happening a lot.

Eldritch Gate + build pile $3..5 - Xen3k
Steps: 5 (2-3 player), 7 (4+p)

I like the power on this one - the Exiling/Event-Coven is a Very Cool idea. I worry that there'll be some opportunity cost with having to discard a card and pay for a build step, especially if the build pile costs $5. Expensive. Rough format, Cool Execution.
Finalist

Great Pyramids + Sacred Land - DunnoItAll
Steps: 3/player (3/player max)

I really like the format on this, although the execution may be kind of uneven in this specific instance - basically a levelling-up Treasure Map that gives a huge reward. While I imagine most players would knock out the first stage before their first shuffle (shelters games notwithstanding), I can imagine it being very frustrating seeing someone else collide their Sacred Lands right away.
Finalist

Hospital - fika monstaer
Steps: 4/player

On the one hand, this just costing a buy makes it easy to chase, but on the other, on no +buy games, I don't think this'll get many takers, considering it helps your opponents more than it helps you. The +Cards during cleanup will also not be ideal in handsize attack games - why not just do it at start of turn?

The Great Library - The Alchemist
Steps: 7 (2p) / 11 (3+p)

Kudos on formatting this in a way that makes it fit with existing landscape formatting. I worry that this has significant first mover disadvantage, at least in 2p, turning into a game of Nim - the second player can always be the one to complete it unless the 1st player goes in whole-hog, i think, in which case they should just build traditionally (and not open with one-card hands). That said, the rewards are (while good) not gamebreakingly good, but just an alt-cost barracks and a potential huge buff to candlestick maker (and others, but i like candlestick maker). This is really well thought out.
Finalist

Spire - mathdude
Steps: 6/player

I don't know why you'd ever not do this - to slow it down so one player can get essentially a cathedral while stockpiling VP chips? Has some significant last player advantage and should probably be reworked.

Hon. Mention: Xen3k's Eldritch Gate
Runner Up: Aquila's Grand Library
Winner: TheAlchemist's The Great Library
« Last Edit: March 29, 2021, 10:39:23 pm by spineflu »
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fika monster

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Re: New Weekly Contest: Fan Card Mechanics
« Reply #244 on: March 30, 2021, 02:12:28 am »
+1

aw.

Good judging!
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Shael

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Re: New Weekly Contest: Fan Card Mechanics
« Reply #245 on: March 30, 2021, 05:00:28 am »
+1


Colossus - Shael
Steps: 6 (fixed)

Ok, nice; thank you for your return.
I have a question: what 6(fixed) mean ?

spineflu

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Re: New Weekly Contest: Fan Card Mechanics
« Reply #246 on: March 30, 2021, 08:05:33 am »
0


Colossus - Shael
Steps: 6 (fixed)

Ok, nice; thank you for your return.
I have a question: what 6(fixed) mean ?
doesnt vary with number of players

mathdude

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Re: New Weekly Contest: Fan Card Mechanics
« Reply #247 on: March 30, 2021, 10:35:40 am »
0

Spire - mathdude
Steps: 6/player

I don't know why you'd ever not do this - to slow it down so one player can get essentially a cathedral while stockpiling VP chips? Has some significant last player advantage and should probably be reworked.

This is fair enough - you're right, I guess there's no reason not to do this, to ensure you can get the VP and set aside some cards.  I wanted to make it accessible enough, but it does seem a bit too overpowering and easy, especially early game.  Looking at it again, I think changing it to "discard 2 cards" would probably make more sense - then it's equivalent to a Militia attack, which sometimes still doesn't affect you, but sometimes can hurt (and given the option, sometimes you will choose not to do it).  I wanted the possibility of the Wonder to be completed by mid-game, so the reward of finishing still has some effect (sending the junk back into your opponents decks).

I'm not sure what you mean by last player advantage here though... if everyone does it every time, everyone wins the top contributor.
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The Alchemist

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Contest #6: Spend, spend, spend!
« Reply #248 on: April 01, 2021, 11:05:21 am »
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Fan Card Mechanic Contest #6: Spend, spend, spend!

Alright, you've heard of -1 card tokens, you've heard of spending coin for cards, now get ready for spending Actions and Buys!
The theme for this week will be -1 Action and -1 Buy, up to you how you would like to implement it. Straight vanilla bonus or -1 token, you set the rules. You can even include spend for benefit. Be explicit about details. If vanilla, do you go negative at 0, interaction with villagers, etc. If tokens, do they work like the -1 card and coin token, when are they returned, etc.

Here are some implementations of the concept as examples by myself and others:

   

In my implementation in Steel Foundry for example, your Action count can go negative, and thus you'd need to spend 2 villagers to play another action card, but you are free to implement a "not-less-than-zero" approach. Stock exchange is another from my Industrialization fan expansion. Savings is an implementation by X-Tra. You can read the secret history for Workshop here to see an implementation of -1 Buy that Don X. considered. An example of a token version of the concept can be seen with Aquila's exhausted token here, which removes one Action from your pool immediately once you have a non-zero number available. You could alternatively have it instead ignore your next +Action, ala Snowy Village, your choice. 

I personally take a liking to well-chosen theme and card art, so card images would be greatly preferred, though of course not required. Feel free to include multiple cards to illustrate your concept further. The contest window will be closed April 8th at 8:00 AM PST, and I will attempt to have the judgement out by that day's end. Good luck and happy fan carding!
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segura

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Re: New Weekly Contest: Fan Card Mechanics
« Reply #249 on: April 01, 2021, 04:11:54 pm »
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Stock Exchange is a weird one, it is too good and too expensive at the same time.
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