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Author Topic: New Weekly Contest: Fan Card Mechanics  (Read 45800 times)

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X-tra

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Re: New Weekly Contest: Fan Card Mechanics
« Reply #175 on: March 11, 2021, 11:30:28 am »
+5

Something pretty simple:



Edit: Made it a little more usable.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2021, 06:33:36 pm by X-tra »
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BBobb

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Re: New Weekly Contest: Fan Card Mechanics
« Reply #176 on: March 11, 2021, 01:26:36 pm »
0

Something pretty simple:


I feel like this is overpriced. Obviously you can save them up, but I feel like this could definitely cost $4, or even $3.
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Re: New Weekly Contest: Fan Card Mechanics
« Reply #177 on: March 11, 2021, 01:55:00 pm »
0

That card could cost 1$. It's a Necropolis variant.

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Re: New Weekly Contest: Fan Card Mechanics
« Reply #178 on: March 11, 2021, 02:03:12 pm »
+1

That card could cost 1$. It's a Necropolis variant.
It's a throne variant. It's not to play a number of cards from your hand, it is to play a card from your hand x many times. Yeah, but very weak.
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Re: New Weekly Contest: Fan Card Mechanics
« Reply #179 on: March 11, 2021, 03:07:51 pm »
0

I know, but what I didn't realize is that playing it once doesn't give you +1 Action, so I should have said Ruined Village variant rather than Necropolis Variant.

fika monster

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Re: New Weekly Contest: Fan Card Mechanics
« Reply #180 on: March 11, 2021, 03:20:59 pm »
+3

Neat Theme this week!

I hope im not breaking any rules, as im sort of bringing in my own mechanic here: "Ambition". Ambition are like a project that affects all players during the whole game. Combining that with the idea Of trade Tokens seemed cool to me, so i decided to do just that.

Anyway: Heres my submission this week: "governance",


Its a Royal carriage that you have to earn by cluttering your deck with victory cards: but on the other hand, You start with 4 trade tokens, so all players can Throne two times before they need to do that.

I specificly made It cost 2 Trade tokens, so that its easier to use with other Trade cards, And so that a player cant use a workshop to Empty Estates in a single turn.

Edit: So appearently theres a fan mechanic Called Edicts, that is quite similar to What i aimed for with Ambition. I still don't feel like changing the name of the mechanic, as theres some sublte difference, but mostly because i want to feel original.

Also, after some feedback from the others here and on the Discord server, with this version instead: Credit to Shael for the wording and BEtter color here
« Last Edit: March 12, 2021, 11:08:32 am by fika monster »
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Re: New Weekly Contest: Fan Card Mechanics
« Reply #181 on: March 11, 2021, 06:15:30 pm »
+3

Oops, seems like something's amiss with my entry. I will edit it in the hopes of getting it fixed.  :)

Edit: This is done.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2021, 06:33:52 pm by X-tra »
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LibraryAdventurer

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Re: New Weekly Contest: Fan Card Mechanics
« Reply #182 on: March 11, 2021, 08:17:06 pm »
+1

Quote
Tunnel Digger
$3 - Action - Victory
You may spend a trade token to discard up to 3 cards, then draw cards equal to 2 more than you discarded. If you don't, +$1 and you may discard an action card for +1 Trade.
-
When you gain this, +2 Trade.
You can only get the strong effect twice before you have to start paying for it.
I wanted to make it an action-victory card with a different name, but then I'd need two dividing lines so I went with this.
...Actually, hmmm, I might be able to do without the on-gain.
Quote
Cairn
$4 - Action - Victory
You may spend a trade token to discard up to 3 cards, then draw cards equal to 2 more than you discarded. If you don't, +$1 and you may discard a card for +1 Trade.
-
Worth 2VP.

Which one do you like better?

EDIT: After thinking about it a little more, I decided to go with the victory card version. So Cairn is my entry for this week.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2021, 10:11:32 am by LibraryAdventurer »
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Re: New Weekly Contest: Fan Card Mechanics
« Reply #183 on: March 11, 2021, 09:54:34 pm »
+1

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mathdude

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Re: New Weekly Contest: Fan Card Mechanics
« Reply #184 on: March 12, 2021, 01:25:01 am »
+2


Quote
Depot • $4 • Action
You may spend a Trade token to gain a card costing up to $6. If you don't, gain a card costing up to $4.
-
When you gain or trash this, gain a Trade token.

It feels a smidge too good? I think i would reduce its non-trade token gaining to "up to 3$"

I disagree.  This is a workshop variant, gaining a card up to $4 as the baseline.  Workshop costs $3, gains a card up to $4.  Most (if not all) variants that also gain a card up to $4, cost $4 with something "extra" (e.g. ironworks gives you a benefit, depending on the type of card you gain).  So for that extra initial cost, now you have the ability to spend a trade token to gain a better card.

My initial thought was that the "up to $6" was too good and "up to $5" would actually be sufficient.  But it depends on the scarcity and value of the trade tokens - assuming they maintain scarcity (as this card seems to do, getting them only on-gain or on-trash), it's effectively a 1-shot or 2-shot (if you have multiples) gain up to $6 instead of $4, so it seems fair.
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mathdude

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Re: New Weekly Contest: Fan Card Mechanics
« Reply #185 on: March 12, 2021, 01:41:43 am »
0

Something pretty simple:



Edit: Made it a little more usable.

I like the improved version - definitely makes it work better (and less like a ruined market).  However, I think this card is now strictly better than Royal Carriage.  "You may play an Action card from your hand" is the same as "+1 Action" on RC.  "+1 Trade" effectively works the same as setting aside the RC on your Tavern Mat (sets up the ability to Throne Room an Action card).  And it can stack to TR cards multiple times (play multiple Grand Ships and/or stockpile Trade tokens, compared to playing and setting aside multiple RCs).

However, Grand Ship stays in your deck and can re-activate the +1 Trade quicker than RC (doesn't miss a shuffle).  Stacking doesn't require multiples of this card (as long as your deck cycles quick enough) whereas you have to buy multiple RCs to stack the effect.  And the Trade token could be used for other benefits if the Kingdom has other cards that could use it (alternatively, gaining Trade tokens from other cards in the Kingdom allows the TR ability on this to be potentially that much stronger).  With all this, it would probably need to cost $6, but that's starting to feel very steep for a TR variant.
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Re: New Weekly Contest: Fan Card Mechanics
« Reply #186 on: March 12, 2021, 01:49:11 am »
0

IDK how to make it smaller sorry



I really like this idea.  As a baseline, it's a Cellar.  The ability to gain Trade tokens is powerful enough in the card, you probably don't need the "when you gain this, +1 Trade" like the original cards (and in reality, that on-gain with this card just gives you a single extra +1 Card whenever you want, which is hardly worth it being there).  And because it's that much easier to gain Trade tokens, it probably wouldn't work well with other designed cards... but that wasn't a requirement of the contest, so no big deal.

However, I'm wondering if $3 is still too cheap.  It makes it very easy to stack for mega-turns.  It might be okay at $3, but I'd probably start it at $4 and see how it plays if I were creating and playtesting this.
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Re: New Weekly Contest: Fan Card Mechanics
« Reply #187 on: March 12, 2021, 02:02:23 am »
0

I have played many games with the Enterprise fan expansion. I think the trade token mechanic is a really cool idea. I haven't ever entered one of these contests, but seeing how one of my favorite mechanics is the focus of this one, I thought I'd give it a crack.

I love the idea that trade tokens are hard to get. However, if you have only one Enterprise card in your kingdom, basically the only way to get one is to buy another one of that card, making them true one-shot cards. I wanted to try to address that problem, while still making them scarce. Enter the Heirloom.  Heirlooms are always in the kingdom with the other card, so you will always have an alternate way to get Trade tokens (aside from just buying another copy of the original card). You also can't stock up on them (you'll get one and like it, mister). I thought it needed to be slowed down in order to maintain the proper scarcity, so it has to go hide on your Tavern mat until recalled for that precious token.



Welcome to the design contests... I've only recently joined these too.  It's a lot of fun.  I think you've really found a good balance here, using the heirloom/reserve, to interact with other cards that have Trade tokens.  A peddler variant is always fun to work with, to take that card worth "a little more than $4" and see how we can modify it.  The occasional +$3 might be too much (+$2 might be enough), but I don't have a feel for how often you would get it, so it's hard to say - it looks like less than once per shuffle, judging by the single heirloom and the reserve mechanic being used.  It could be very powerful with a thin deck and/or fast cycling, but very weak otherwise.



The Goods are a deck of 10 sideways card-shaped objects, like Boons and Hexes. Each time you gain a Foreign Trader, put the next Good face-up in a pile, and its effect remains active until covered. The Goods aren't reshuffled; even if the players somehow manage to gain more than ten total Foreign Traders, the tenth Good remains face-up for the rest of the game.

I like this idea. If i understood correctly, the Effect is global? ie, it works for all players

If so, it would be a cool Kingdom modifier, that changes it in a landscape like way, but swtiches the way you play

Effectively these are temporary Landmarks, it looks like (though these mostly don't affect VPs like Landmarks do), in that they affect the way you play.  And needing to adapt (to maximize benefit) throughout the game would be interesting.  I like the concept.  It obviously wouldn't work well with the power level of other Trade token cards, but this design could be its own mechanic entirely (having its own type of tracking token).  At first glance, it looked like the balance between all the Goods might need a bit of adjusting, but it is a good starting point.

-------------

I know, I know... I've now gone and posted a whole bunch here (flooding the thread - mods, feel free to combine my posts if you want.  I originally intended to just comment on one or two, but I ended up really liking a lot of these and commented on a lot more... I'm so glad I'm not judging this contest - there's so much variety and they all look so fun).  I hope to post my own creation over the weekend some time.
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fika monster

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Re: New Weekly Contest: Fan Card Mechanics
« Reply #188 on: March 12, 2021, 05:05:42 am »
0

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Re: New Weekly Contest: Fan Card Mechanics
« Reply #189 on: March 12, 2021, 07:07:54 am »
0


Quote
Depot • $4 • Action
You may spend a Trade token to gain a card costing up to $6. If you don't, gain a card costing up to $4.
-
When you gain or trash this, gain a Trade token.

It feels a smidge too good? I think i would reduce its non-trade token gaining to "up to 3$"

I disagree.  This is a workshop variant, gaining a card up to $4 as the baseline.  Workshop costs $3, gains a card up to $4.  Most (if not all) variants that also gain a card up to $4, cost $4 with something "extra" (e.g. ironworks gives you a benefit, depending on the type of card you gain).  So for that extra initial cost, now you have the ability to spend a trade token to gain a better card.

My initial thought was that the "up to $6" was too good and "up to $5" would actually be sufficient.  But it depends on the scarcity and value of the trade tokens - assuming they maintain scarcity (as this card seems to do, getting them only on-gain or on-trash), it's effectively a 1-shot or 2-shot (if you have multiples) gain up to $6 instead of $4, so it seems fair.

this was my rationale as well; i made it "up to $6" because on i don't think there's that much of a gap between $5 and $6, and you'll usually have too many terminals if you *just* aim to gain $6s with it (gold excluded, which, who cares, skulk gives you gold and skulk stinks), which means you're using it as the dud version as well to gain villages or lackeys or whatever the splitting criteria is.
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Re: New Weekly Contest: Fan Card Mechanics
« Reply #190 on: March 12, 2021, 08:40:40 am »
+1

Neat Theme this week!


anyfeedback?

I'm put off by the double horizontal line. I think you could put the middle and lower part both behind a setup: clause. I'm also not sure if it's a good idea to make people start with 4 tokens.

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Re: New Weekly Contest: Fan Card Mechanics
« Reply #191 on: March 12, 2021, 09:41:51 am »
+1

Neat Theme this week!


anyfeedback?

Neat Theme this week!

I hope im not breaking any rules, as im sort of bringing in my own mechanic here: "Ambition". Ambition are like a project that affects all players during the whole game. Combining that with the idea Of trade Tokens seemed cool to me, so i decided to do just that.

Anyway: Heres my submission this week: "governance",


Its a Royal carriage that you have to earn by cluttering your deck with victory cards: but on the other hand, You start with 4 trade tokens, so all players can Throne two times before they need to do that.

I specificly made It cost 2 Trade tokens, so that its easier to use with other Trade cards, And so that a player cant use a workshop to Empty Estates in a single turn.

I'm not sure why you didn't make this an Edict; You can get rid of the first horizontal line, imo - both of those effects are "how playing the game is changed by this card". I'd see where the text size is at at that point and tweak accordingly; as-is, it's way too small.
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Re: New Weekly Contest: Fan Card Mechanics
« Reply #192 on: March 12, 2021, 10:56:06 am »
+1



I'm not sure why you didn't make this an Edict; You can get rid of the first horizontal line, imo - both of those effects are "how playing the game is changed by this card". I'd see where the text size is at at that point and tweak accordingly; as-is, it's way too small.
I didnt know about edicts or or the guide you linked to: I'll give it a check
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emtzalex

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Re: New Weekly Contest: Fan Card Mechanics
« Reply #193 on: March 12, 2021, 12:10:25 pm »
0

Something pretty simple:



Edit: Made it a little more usable.

I like the improved version - definitely makes it work better (and less like a ruined market).  However, I think this card is now strictly better than Royal Carriage.  "You may play an Action card from your hand" is the same as "+1 Action" on RC.  "+1 Trade" effectively works the same as setting aside the RC on your Tavern Mat (sets up the ability to Throne Room an Action card).  And it can stack to TR cards multiple times (play multiple Grand Ships and/or stockpile Trade tokens, compared to playing and setting aside multiple RCs).

However, Grand Ship stays in your deck and can re-activate the +1 Trade quicker than RC (doesn't miss a shuffle).  Stacking doesn't require multiples of this card (as long as your deck cycles quick enough) whereas you have to buy multiple RCs to stack the effect.  And the Trade token could be used for other benefits if the Kingdom has other cards that could use it (alternatively, gaining Trade tokens from other cards in the Kingdom allows the TR ability on this to be potentially that much stronger).  With all this, it would probably need to cost $6, but that's starting to feel very steep for a TR variant.

I'm not sure I agree. You have to have this in your hand at the same time as whatever Action card you want to (re)play. As anyone who has drawn a King's Court without any Action cards in hand knows, that is not a sure thing. While (unlike King's Court) this is not totally useless (as it allows you to add a Trade token to be used on the next hit), you still ultimately have to collide it sooner or later (and may be put in a position of having to choose between replaying not-the-best Action card versus waiting another shuffle to try to match it up). By contrast, Royal Carriage can used to replayed ANY Action card played after it. You can double-play an Action card immediately, or you can wait multiple turns for the Action card you really want to play twice.

Also, while RC lets you decide after the Action is played whether to replay it, Grand Ship requires you to select the Action card you might replay in advance. So if I drew a RC - Vagrant (and no other Actions), I could play the RC, play the Vagrant, and then decide whether to replay the Vagrant (possibly knowing what the next card on the deck is), or, if the Vagrant drew a better Action card, play that and replay with RC. By contrast, if I drew Grand Ship - Vagrant, I would play the Vagrant with Grand Ship, but if I drew a Hunting Grounds I would not be able to replay that card. (There are also marginal cases where +1 Action is not the same as you may play a card, e.g. with Cavalry, but those are too rare to meaningfully impact the card's value).

EDIT: One analogy might be Chapel / Ratcatcher.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2021, 12:12:10 pm by emtzalex »
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Re: New Weekly Contest: Fan Card Mechanics
« Reply #194 on: March 12, 2021, 12:13:13 pm »
0

I think the improved version is really good.

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Re: New Weekly Contest: Fan Card Mechanics
« Reply #195 on: March 12, 2021, 12:53:00 pm »
0





Welcome to the design contests... I've only recently joined these too.  It's a lot of fun.  I think you've really found a good balance here, using the heirloom/reserve, to interact with other cards that have Trade tokens.  A peddler variant is always fun to work with, to take that card worth "a little more than $4" and see how we can modify it.  The occasional +$3 might be too much (+$2 might be enough), but I don't have a feel for how often you would get it, so it's hard to say - it looks like less than once per shuffle, judging by the single heirloom and the reserve mechanic being used.  It could be very powerful with a thin deck and/or fast cycling, but very weak otherwise.

Thanks! Tested it in a game last night and it felt over powered early and then fell into line about where I expected it to. I think the things that led to it feeling that way were a thin early deck and early was when I was buying them (which gives a token). Going to consider ways to nerf it early rather than changing the whole card, first. Thanks for the feedback!
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Re: New Weekly Contest: Fan Card Mechanics
« Reply #196 on: March 13, 2021, 05:38:00 am »
+3

spineflu

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Re: New Weekly Contest: Fan Card Mechanics
« Reply #197 on: March 13, 2021, 06:10:12 am »
+1



one thing I don't like about this is it totally takes anything the other player does out of it. very much reinforces the multiplayer solitaire aspect of dominion. Something like, "if you have at least 15 trade tokens, +10vp and the game is over immediately" would ease my mind (10 being a number i pulled from nowhere, really - a little better than a province + a duchy; i'm sure there's an appropriate "close the gap" number)
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Re: New Weekly Contest: Fan Card Mechanics
« Reply #198 on: March 13, 2021, 07:00:48 am »
0

Mh. I think the unconditional aspect would actually lead to a pretty neat dynamic.

Suppose your opponent is going for Cartels. They're not going to buy Provinces, which means that you need all eight of them to end the game. This is also the case if your opponent goes for alt VP, but the difference is that alt VP accumulate VP gradually, whereas this is all or nothing, which makes it so being 1 point ahead is as good as 25 Points. This means that you'll essentially always want to 3-pile; buying Provinces is likely to be a waste of money.

Conversely, suppose you are buying Cartels. In this case, you're just waiting for your opponent to start greening, so that they acquire useless victory points and handicap their ability to three-pile. This should make your opponent hesitant to buy the first Province, which means they'll build on their engine instead, which in turn makes Cartel worse because the 3-pile is closer. Given all that, optimal play should be to delay greening on both sides, estimate the point at which Cartel is no longer worth it, and then go green. Alternatively, buy Cartels if you think your opponent estimated incorrectly and bought the first province too early.

If Cartel did say "+X VP, end the game" instead, this would change the dynamic a lot since now you do want to buy Provinces against it. I'm not sure how it plays now, but it feels more similar to other Alt VPs, which I don't like.

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Re: New Weekly Contest: Fan Card Mechanics
« Reply #199 on: March 13, 2021, 08:48:07 am »
+1

Mh. I think the unconditional aspect would actually lead to a pretty neat dynamic.

Suppose your opponent is going for Cartels. They're not going to buy Provinces, which means that you need all eight of them to end the game. This is also the case if your opponent goes for alt VP, but the difference is that alt VP accumulate VP gradually, whereas this is all or nothing, which makes it so being 1 point ahead is as good as 25 Points. This means that you'll essentially always want to 3-pile; buying Provinces is likely to be a waste of money.

Conversely, suppose you are buying Cartels. In this case, you're just waiting for your opponent to start greening, so that they acquire useless victory points and handicap their ability to three-pile. This should make your opponent hesitant to buy the first Province, which means they'll build on their engine instead, which in turn makes Cartel worse because the 3-pile is closer. Given all that, optimal play should be to delay greening on both sides, estimate the point at which Cartel is no longer worth it, and then go green. Alternatively, buy Cartels if you think your opponent estimated incorrectly and bought the first province too early.

If Cartel did say "+X VP, end the game" instead, this would change the dynamic a lot since now you do want to buy Provinces against it. I'm not sure how it plays now, but it feels more similar to other Alt VPs, which I don't like.

ok but like. picture a kc-cartel game. whoever lines theirs up better wins, the end. you take a complex game and reduce it to shuffle luck. Or in games with no gainers, no +buy - three piling might not be on the table, at which point it's whoever can luck into an early $5 wins.

you do it my way, and all the sudden it still matters what you do as the other player in those scenarios.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2021, 09:13:54 am by spineflu »
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