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Author Topic: New Weekly Contest: Fan Card Mechanics  (Read 18718 times)

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scolapasta

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New Weekly Contest: Fan Card Mechanics
« on: December 19, 2020, 02:30:03 pm »
+4

Hi all,

What would people think of a new weekly contest specifically dedicated to fan card mechanics? (credit to spineflue for starting this "atlas")

Inspired by weekly design content #90*, Steal Ideas!, but in this case every entry would have to use the fan card mechanic chosen by that week's judge.

* and the fact that I was mildly disappointed to see no one expand on my Worshippers mechanic...


If we like this idea, I think the best thing would be to wait until the current "Set Design Contest has worked its way through every expansion, then have this contest take its place.

Thoughts?
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gambit05

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Re: New Weekly Contest: Fan Card Mechanics
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2020, 03:02:45 pm »
+1

Hi all,

What would people think of a new weekly contest specifically dedicated to fan card mechanics? (credit to spineflue for starting this "atlas")

Inspired by weekly design content #90*, Steal Ideas!, but in this case every entry would have to use the fan card mechanic chosen by that week's judge.

* and the fact that I was mildly disappointed to see no one expand on my Worshippers mechanic...


If we like this idea, I think the best thing would be to wait until the current "Set Design Contest has worked its way through every expansion, then have this contest take its place.

Thoughts?

I usually don't like designing cards with other people's mechanics, but why not here and there a few of them. I just saw your Worshippers. I have a very similar mechanic using Chaplain tokens. The difference is that they can only trash cards from your hand.

Independently from your contest idea, we can also think about extending the Set Expansion Contest by looking for crossover cards for related Expansions, e.g. Guilds/Renaissance (if there is enough interest of course).
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spineflu

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Re: New Weekly Contest: Fan Card Mechanics
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2020, 08:12:44 am »
0

i think that'd be a neat way to continue the spirit of the set expansion contest, but i also think we should be narrowing the scope of the set expansion contest as we move on to more complex sets - an event for adventures, a landmark for empires, a duration-attack for empires, a curser for dark ages, etc - so i dont think it'll be over quite as soon as this would imply

anordinaryman

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Re: New Weekly Contest: Fan Card Mechanics
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2020, 03:46:29 pm »
0

My view is that the two weekly contests we have now is already more than enough. Maybe slightly too much. With three it would be really hard for me personally to follow/contribute/critique to them. As of right now, I mainly focus on the standard Weekly Design Contest.

That being said, feel free to add another. This is just what I think. I just won't be able to contribute in any way. Perhaps I speak for other members of the forum, perhaps I don't.
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silverspawn

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Re: New Weekly Contest: Fan Card Mechanics
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2020, 04:07:32 pm »
+1

Well, the set expansion contest is going to end eventually. If two is the right number, we can use this to get back to 2.
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spineflu

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Re: New Weekly Contest: Fan Card Mechanics
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2021, 12:50:39 pm »
+1

we gonna do this now that the set expansion contest ran its course?

scolapasta

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Re: New Weekly Contest: Fan Card Mechanics
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2021, 04:18:59 pm »
+1

As I stated in my initial post, I'd be happy for this purely for selfish reasons of wanting to see others expand on my Worshippers mechanic. If others are, as well, I'd be happy to host week 1 (seeing as I don't see myself winning the WDC any time soon :) ).

If we do, my thought for this is to be a week+ long process. The initial few days would allow some discussion on the mechanic, in case it needs any tweaking (with final decisions being the judge's, of course.

So basically:
Day 1: Introduce the mechanic, opening up to some discussion.
Day n: Finalize any changes to the mechanic.
Day n+ 1 week: Judging.

Does that sound reasonable? Are people interested in trying this?
« Last Edit: January 31, 2021, 04:39:27 pm by scolapasta »
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silverspawn

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Re: New Weekly Contest: Fan Card Mechanics
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2021, 05:46:11 pm »
+3

I'd participate.
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spineflu

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Re: New Weekly Contest: Fan Card Mechanics
« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2021, 06:48:59 pm »
+1

sounds great to me

X-tra

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Re: New Weekly Contest: Fan Card Mechanics
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2021, 07:20:02 pm »
+2

Ye I could jump in as well. So long as we rotate no more than 2 Weekly contests, I'm not too overwhelmed. Since the Set Design Contest has ended, this could take over; we'd keep 2 contests rotating this way.

I just want to point out that custom mechanics have generally not been tested and fine tuned like the official ones. Maybe a certain mechanic will be pretty eeeeeh on paper for some. I think it's alright and that we should still roll with it and try to exploit such mechanics to the best of our abilities anyway. It's all in good spirits here anyway. I don't think I'm stepping too much ahead of myself when I say we're here to have fun.
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scolapasta

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Re: New Weekly Contest: Fan Card Mechanics Week 1: Worshippers
« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2021, 07:39:50 pm »
+3

OK, let's give it a go then!

Some basic tenets for the contest:

the mechanic you choose to "host" does not have to be one that you came up with
a good source of mechanics is the Atlas of Fan Card Mechanics
if you want to allow a few days at the beginning to discuss and possibly tweak the mechanic, feel free, but it's also not necessary
try to include a card shaped thing that implements the mechanic (possibly, in its most simple form)

So without further ado:

Fan Card Mechanics Week 1: Worshippers

Worshippers are a new type of token that you can "spend" during your Clean up phase:

The latest version of the rules (and mat) I had posted is this:



Quote
At the start of your Clean-up phase, you may remove tokens from this to trash a card from your hand or one you have in play for each token removed.

and a simple Chapel variant:



Quote
Apse Chapel - Action - $2
+2 Worshippers.

Pre Contest Discussion:
I'm still overall happy with this design - the main thing I was unsure of when I first posted was whether allowing to trash cards from either hand or in play was too strong. For Apse Chapel, I hopefully balanced it out enough by only taking 2 tokens per play. (this design was originally for a contest entitled "Make me skip chapel!".)

you can see some more of the cards I came up for it, in various states of completion, in the scolapasta's cards thread

I am planning on cleaning up (pun intended) the rules / mat wording a little to:

Quote
At the start of your Clean-up phase, you may remove tokens from this. For each removed token, trash a card that you would discard this turn.

It borrows some wording from Improve, helps tracking (now, you can't trash Duration cards that would stay in play) and removes some words by making the trashing mandatory (since that shouldn't really affect gameplay). Does this work better?

My intention is to start the contest at some point Tuesday (or Wednesday, at the latest)


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Timinou

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Re: New Weekly Contest: Fan Card Mechanics
« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2021, 07:03:19 pm »
0

I'm looking forward to this.  The current WDC is in the same vein (based on fika monster's Snow mechanic) and it seems to be quite popular so far.

With Worshippers, I'm wondering if being able to use them in your Action phase in addition to the Clean-up phase would add more depth to the mechanic, or if that is an intentional limitation.  For example, you get the benefit from trashing Rats or a Cultist if you do so at the start of your Clean-up phase.
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scolapasta

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Re: New Weekly Contest: Fan Card Mechanics
« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2021, 09:17:10 pm »
+3

I'll admit the main reason for the clean up phase is parallelism:
Villagers can be used in your Action phase to amplify your Action Phase (by playing more Actions)
Coffers can be used in your Buy Phase to amplify your Buy Phase (by buying more expensive cards)
Worshippers can be used in your Clean-up phase to amplify your Clean-up phase (by trashing cards you would discard).

It's probably also good that it limits their strength some, since they are quite powerful already.
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scolapasta

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Re: New Weekly Contest: Fan Card Mechanics Week 1: Worshippers
« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2021, 03:33:18 pm »
+4

OK, let's get this contest started!

Here is the newest version of the Worshippers mechanic (amusingly it's basically back to what it was in v0.1, with the addition of "this turn":



Quote
At the start of your Clean-up phase, you may remove tokens from this.
For each removed token, trash a card that you would discard this turn.

Contest submission end will be Wednesday, February 9 00:01 Forum Time.

My general criteria will be based on: Is this a card I wish I had designed?

So I will look towards it being interesting and fun, foremost, and at least somewhat thematic. While balance is also important, if it's a card that has some imbalance but potential to be fixed, it won't lose many points.
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spineflu

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Re: New Weekly Contest: Fan Card Mechanics
« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2021, 06:56:01 pm »
+3


Quote
Mendicant $4 Action
Trash a card from your hand.

+1 Worshipper per $1 it cost. If it was a Treasure, draw until you have 4 cards in hand and +1 Action.

Nerfed so it's muddier whether it's "strictly better" than Silk Merchant or not.


ALSO OLD VERSION

Quote
Mendicant $4 Action
Trash a card from your hand.

+1 Worshipper per $1 it cost. If it was a Treasure, +2 Cards and +1 Action.

Nerfed to be slightly worse than Chapel / on par with Silk Merchant. Still very good at trashing but not nearly as good as it was.


OLD VERSION

Quote
Mendicant $4 Action
+2 Cards
Trash a card from your hand. +1 Worshippers per $1 it cost. If you have no Worshippers, +1 Action

This is a Recruiter and Spice Merchant variant; I took the pricing from Spice Merchant so everyone would be able to open with it. I haven't tested it but I suspect it can trash very fast if you trash good stuff, or be a Spice Merchant style pseudolab (pseudo bc hand size doesn't increase with this) when trashing Coppers/Curses. I think it's reasonable for it to cost the same as Spice Merchant bc it lacks the woodcutter flexibility that s.m. has (in favor of chapel-like flexibility).
« Last Edit: February 03, 2021, 03:11:12 pm by spineflu »
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bitwise

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Re: New Weekly Contest: Fan Card Mechanics
« Reply #15 on: February 02, 2021, 07:10:57 pm »
0

So for the rules of the Worshippers, do they work on cards that were in play that you would discard in cleanup, or cards that were left in your hand, or both?

EDIT: I guess from looking above, it's either? And the wording is to disallow trashing things like Durations that are supposed to stay out?
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bitwise

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Re: New Weekly Contest: Fan Card Mechanics
« Reply #16 on: February 02, 2021, 07:32:52 pm »
+2

Assuming I've interpreted the Worshippers rules correctly, I think that Mendicant is ridiculously strong. It's pretty likely that in a game where you open it and Silver, that by the end of your Turn 5, you've gotten to trash 2 Estates+4 Coppers or 3 Estates+3 Coppers, and hit $5 once or twice. This seems better than Chapel or Cathedral in most games.
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spineflu

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Re: New Weekly Contest: Fan Card Mechanics
« Reply #17 on: February 02, 2021, 07:36:02 pm »
0

Assuming I've interpreted the Worshippers rules correctly, I think that Mendicant is ridiculously strong. It's pretty likely that in a game where you open it and Silver, that by the end of your Turn 5, you've gotten to trash 2 Estates+4 Coppers or 3 Estates+3 Coppers, and hit $5 once or twice. This seems better than Chapel or Cathedral in most games.

yeah it seems way too strong if you can trash from hand with worshippers; i was assuming trash from in-play discards only. idk. I'll test it out and see how it plays against like, chapel.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2021, 07:40:55 pm by spineflu »
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bitwise

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Re: New Weekly Contest: Fan Card Mechanics
« Reply #18 on: February 02, 2021, 10:18:56 pm »
+2

I think it would be approximately as strong, and still stronger than Chapel/Cathedral even if the Worshippers only trash the in play cards (like Bonfire). My analysis:
If you open Mendicant/Silver, you have 12 cards. If you see Mendicant in your first 10 out of 12 the next shuffle, you are going to go through all 12 cards exactly over the two turns. Assuming there is an Estate on the turn you play Mendicant (note that you see 6 out of the 11 other cards that turn), you can trash Estate and 2 Coppers that turn. Also assuming both these two things happen, you will have $9 money over 2 turns and will be guaranteed to hit 5. I think the most likely split is $5/$4?

This already seems favorable to me compared to Chapel -- comparing the most common cases of either, you're trashing one fewer card (and not as many Estates perhaps), but you have a $5 in your deck too over the Chapel open. Also the Estates don't seem obviously worse than Coppers to me -- finding one with a Mendicant means you can trash 2 Coppers that turn as well, after all.
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Xen3k

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Re: New Weekly Contest: Fan Card Mechanics
« Reply #19 on: February 02, 2021, 10:50:00 pm »
+2



Quote
Midnight Ritual - $4
Night - Duration - Attack
You may discard a card. Each other player gains a copy of it.
At the start of your next turn, choose one: +2 Worshippers; or +2 Coffers; or +1 Card.
----
When you gain this, gain a Curse.

It is a trasher that also can attack. It can also act as half a Caravan or Silver Coffer gainer. The attack requires you to have the junk you want to give in your deck, making the decision on what to trash a little bit more of a weighty decision. It also jump start your cursing campaign by giving you a Curse when you gain it. Being a duration is intended to slow it down and make it not as oppressive as it could be as it is non-terminal and does not cost $5. Feedback is appreciated.

Edit: Simplified wording and Bolded Worshippers per feedback from Gubump and Bbobb. Also changed the Silver gain to 2 to make it slightly more appealing and more in line with the likes of Amulet.

Edit 2: Changed price to $5. Changed Silver gain to Gold 2 Coffers.

Quote
Old Version
« Last Edit: February 03, 2021, 06:17:31 pm by Xen3k »
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scolapasta

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Re: New Weekly Contest: Fan Card Mechanics
« Reply #20 on: February 02, 2021, 11:14:08 pm »
+2

So for the rules of the Worshippers, do they work on cards that were in play that you would discard in cleanup, or cards that were left in your hand, or both?

EDIT: I guess from looking above, it's either? And the wording is to disallow trashing things like Durations that are supposed to stay out?

They work on both cards that are in play and cards in your hand.

Version 0.3 specified this explicitly; v0.4 was meant to simplify the wording, while not changing the concept (though, as you noticed, it does add "this turn" for not trashing Durations that are supposed to stay out).
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emtzalex

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Re: New Weekly Contest: Fan Card Mechanics
« Reply #21 on: February 03, 2021, 12:08:24 am »
+4



Pilgrims' Hostel - $4
Action
+1 Card
+2 Actions
You may discard a Victory card for +1 Worshipper.
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Gubump

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Re: New Weekly Contest: Fan Card Mechanics
« Reply #22 on: February 03, 2021, 12:17:27 am »
+1



Quote
Midnight Ritual - $4
Night - Duration - Attack
You may reveal and discard a card from your hand. If you do, each other player gains a copy of it.
At the start of your next turn, choose one: +2 Worshippers; or +1 Card; or gain a Silver.
----
When you gain this, gain a Curse.

It is a trasher that also can attack. It can also act as half a Caravan or Silver gainer. The attack required you to have the junk you want to give in your deck, making the decision on what to trash a little bit more of a decision. It also jump start your cursing campaign by giving you a Curse when you gain it. Being a duration is intended to slow it down and make it not as oppressive as it could be as it is non-terminal and does not cost $5. Feedback is appreciated.

Since you're only discarding one card, that card is going to be visible to everyone, so there's no need to reveal it.
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BBobb

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Re: New Weekly Contest: Fan Card Mechanics
« Reply #23 on: February 03, 2021, 12:21:41 am »
+1



Quote
Midnight Ritual - $4
Night - Duration - Attack
You may reveal and discard a card from your hand. If you do, each other player gains a copy of it.
At the start of your next turn, choose one: +2 Worshippers; or +1 Card; or gain a Silver.
----
When you gain this, gain a Curse.
I would capitalize worhsippers.
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Hand - King's Court, Ruined Village, Estate, Copper, Possession
Turn -
BBobb plays King's Court
and plays a Ruined Village.
getting +1 Action
and plays the Ruined Village again.
getting +1 Action
and plays the Ruined village a third time.
getting +1 Action.
BBobb plays a Copper.
BBobb buys a Poor House.
(BBobb draws: 2 King's Courts and 3 Possessions)
BBobb=GOD

Timinou

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Re: New Weekly Contest: Fan Card Mechanics
« Reply #24 on: February 03, 2021, 12:36:19 am »
+3



Quote from: Missionary
$4 - Action
+$2
You may put your deck into your discard pile. You may look through your discard pile and trash up to 2 cards from it. If you trashed any, each other player gains +1 Worshipper.

This is a Chancellor variant that has similarities to Bishop.  Giving your opponents Worshippers is great for them, but the benefits of terminal silver, deck cycling, and trashing should outweigh that.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2021, 11:57:26 am by Timinou »
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