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Author Topic: Back to Basic  (Read 934 times)

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dirkdebeule

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Back to Basic
« on: December 08, 2020, 07:14:58 pm »
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Hi,

This poll is for those players who only play the Base set, but also for those who play the expansion games for ages.
I think that we can make a difference between the Basic player and the Expansion player.
As wel in real as online.

One of the reasons is that during the release of the expansions more and more mechanics and card types * (Duration, Command, Castle, Doom, Fate, Gathering, Heirloom, Knight, Looter, Night, Prize, Reserve, Ruins, Shelter, Spirit, Traveller, Zombie) were introduced.

Also Non-card types ** (Artifact, Boon, Event, Hex, Landmark, Project, State, Way) came into play.

As a non experienced player I can imagine that you think “This is too much info, too difficult, too complex, too …”.
And sometimes you wish “Can’t we keep it simple, but I like to play with more than just the cards from the Base Set?”.
And not only beginners think this, also experienced players sometimes just want to play an extensive basic game, not?
They want to practice their basic skills more often before buying Expansion boxes or to buy a Silver/Gold subscription online.

Therefore I thought, why can’t we go back to basics?

Let’s select basic mechanics from all expansions and make some “new” sets of Kingdom Cards.
 1) OK, let’s skip Alchemy, nobody likes them and Potion slows down to much ;-)
 2) Don't use the extra mechanics and Card types* (except Durations which is a non complex basic Action and fun to play).
 3) No Promo's
 4) Don't use Non Card Types **
 5) No extra (Kingdom Card) Piles (e.g. Bane)
 6) No extra Materials (Tokens, Mats, Wooden cubes,...)

With this reductions and my own Fun Experience I tried to make 5 Large Base Sets:
 - 3 sets (Novice, Cadet and Rookie) with mixed cards from all expansions (except Base and Alchemy)
 - 1 set (Prophecy) with cards from Seaside, Prosperity, Dark Ages and Hinterlands
 - 1 set (Optio) with cards from Cornucopia/Guilds, Adventures, Empires, Nocturne, Renaissance and Menagerie

I hope you like them and am curious about your comments.

Extra info for set 1 to 4:
- Prosperity includes Platinum, a Treasure card that produces $5 and costs $9, and Colony, a Victory card that gives 10 VP and costs $11.
  These may be included in the Supply in games using Kingdom cards from Prosperity.
- Dark Ages also includes Shelters, cards costing $1 which can replace Estates in players' starting decks and never appear in the Supply.
  These may be used in games including Kingdom cards from Dark Ages.

So, the poll question is simple. Which set do you like most?
Or rephrased: If this were real sets in shop and you only have money to buy one, which one would you pick?


Back To Basics Sets

1: Novice
|Courtyard|Pawn|Fishing Village|Ghost Town|Oasis|Sheepdog|Steward|Warehouse|Armory|Baron|Inventor|Magpie|Mill|Mountain Village|Port|Sea Hag|Taxman|Worker's Village|Bazaar|City|Embassy|Haggler|Lost City|Merchant Ship|Mystic|Patrol|Southsayer|Stables|Altar|Border Village|Harem|King's Court|



2: Cadet
|Crossroads|Pearl Diver|Amulet|Dungeon|Forager|Market Square|Menagerie|Scheme|Conclave|Diplomate|Farming Village|Ironworks|Mining Village|Navigator|Nomad Camp|Salvager|Silk Road|Artificer|Den of Sin|Ghost Ship|Hunting Lodge|Hunting Party|Inn|Junk Dealer|Rabble|Seer|Torturer|Treasury|Fairgrounds|Hunting Grounds|Nobles|Expand|
 


3: Rookie
|Black Cat|Lighthouse|Lurker|Experiment|Lookout|Shanty Town|Snow Village|Tunnel|Caravan|Conspirator|Fortress|Hideout|Horse Traders|Ironmonger|Priest|Spice Merchant|Villa|Barge|Count|Forum|Harvest|Highway|Kiln|Legionary|Margrave|Minion|Scholar|Tragic Hero|Vault|Farmland|Grand Market|Forge|



4: Prophecy
|Crossroads|Lighthouse|Pearl Diver|Fishing Village|Forager|Lookout|Market Square|Oasis|Scheme|Tunnel|Armory|Caravan|Fortress|Ironmonger|Navigator|Nomad Camp|Salvager|Silk Road|Spice Merchant|City|Count|Embassy|Ghost Ship|Haggler|Highway|Inn|Junk Dealer|Margrave|Merchant Ship|Rabble|Stables|Border Village|Grand Market|Forge|King's Court|

 


5: Optio
Black Cat|Amulet|Dungeon|Experiment|Ghost Town|Menagerie|Sheepdog|Snowy Village|Conclave|Farming Village|Hideout|Horse Traders|Inventor|Magpie|Mountain Village|Port|Priest|Taxman|Villa|Artificer|Barge|Den Of Sin|Forum|Harvest|Hunting Lodge|Hunting Party|Kiln|Legionary|Lost City|Scholar|Seer|Soothsayer|Tragic Hero|Fairgrounds|

« Last Edit: December 09, 2020, 06:02:50 pm by dirkdebeule »
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Donald X.

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Re: Back to Basic
« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2020, 12:41:01 pm »
+14

Stef is currently working on a "complexity" feature for dominion.games. Since it's not done it's not finalized, but currently, you can pick a level of complexity from 1-10, and it determines the set of cards available. I picked what cards are at each level; it groups mechanics. Level 1 is just base, level 10 is everything, and in-between you have added whatever set of mechanics. So players who don't want to be swamped with new mechanics can ease into them; add 1 to complexity and a few new mechanics show up.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Back to Basic
« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2020, 01:36:53 pm »
+2

Stef is currently working on a "complexity" feature for dominion.games. Since it's not done it's not finalized, but currently, you can pick a level of complexity from 1-10, and it determines the set of cards available. I picked what cards are at each level; it groups mechanics. Level 1 is just base, level 10 is everything, and in-between you have added whatever set of mechanics. So players who don't want to be swamped with new mechanics can ease into them; add 1 to complexity and a few new mechanics show up.

That sounds nice in theory, but what's the default level? And is there any way to have it automatically ramp up complexity for you? In my opinion that's the biggest failing of the "familiar cards" feature: that cards don't automatically become familiar after you've used them.
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segura

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Re: Back to Basic
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2020, 02:25:11 pm »
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Option 1: Novice
|Courtyard|Pawn|Fishing Village|Ghost Town|Oasis|Sheepdog|Steward|Warehouse|Armory|Baron|Inventor|Magpie|Mill|Mountain Village|Port|Sea Hag|Taxman|Worker's Village|Bazaar|City|Embassy|Haggler|Lost City|Merchant Ship|Mystic|Patrol|Southsayer|Stables|Altar|Border Village|Harem|King's Court|

Cost reduction and KC are IMO not appropriate for beginners as they are potentially hard to track which is frankly speaking far messier and complex than something like e.g. Bard. Bard might looks overwhelming due to all the cards but "terminal Silver plus flip over a Boon" is far easier to deal with than KC combos where you might literally need 3 counters to track everything.

Also, it seems more natural to start with Throne Room than with King's Court (and even then you get the old does "does TR+TR mean that I can play a card four times?" rules issue). Also, nearly all beginners will underestimate the strength KC (e.g. no beginner will see that KC+cantrip is a Lab plus 2 Villages)
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Donald X.

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Re: Back to Basic
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2020, 12:06:08 pm »
+2

Stef is currently working on a "complexity" feature for dominion.games. Since it's not done it's not finalized, but currently, you can pick a level of complexity from 1-10, and it determines the set of cards available. I picked what cards are at each level; it groups mechanics. Level 1 is just base, level 10 is everything, and in-between you have added whatever set of mechanics. So players who don't want to be swamped with new mechanics can ease into them; add 1 to complexity and a few new mechanics show up.

That sounds nice in theory, but what's the default level? And is there any way to have it automatically ramp up complexity for you? In my opinion that's the biggest failing of the "familiar cards" feature: that cards don't automatically become familiar after you've used them.
As it stands, you will have to ramp up the complexity yourself, by changing the number on the screen where you set matchmaking parameters e.g. opponent skill level. I don't know the default but suspect it will be 1, just Base. That kind of thing, you personally could get in involved in affecting.

I think Familiar Cards will go.
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