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Author Topic: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline  (Read 35135 times)

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BBobb

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #300 on: February 02, 2021, 12:36:07 pm »
+1

Just some wording changes:

Expulsion:
+2 Cards
Each other player with 4 or more cards in hand discard an Treasure Action or an Action card Treasure (or reveals they can't)
See Fear.

Lanterns:
Look through your discard pile. You may shuffle any number of cards of from it with into your deck. Look at the top card of your deck. You may dDiscard it it put it back.
+3 cCards
For the first part, it just sounds better. For the second, see Inn. For the third, see Zombie Spy. For the fourth, see any card that gives +Cards.

Swamp:
Though this isn't necessary, I would change this to an on-gain ability. Donald X. is moving away from on-buy and moving towards on-gain. Also, I wouldn't make it a victory card since it gives negative points. I wouldn't call it a curse either, so I dunno what to call it.
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Hand - King's Court, Ruined Village, Estate, Copper, Possession
Turn -
BBobb plays King's Court
and plays a Ruined Village.
getting +1 Action
and plays the Ruined Village again.
getting +1 Action
and plays the Ruined village a third time.
getting +1 Action.
BBobb plays a Copper.
BBobb buys a Poor House.
(BBobb draws: 2 King's Courts and 3 Possessions)
BBobb=GOD

Carline

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #301 on: February 03, 2021, 04:30:20 am »
+3

Some more:

               
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BBobb

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #302 on: February 03, 2021, 12:34:28 pm »
+1

For Ghost Pirate, is this supposed to be the one who plays the card who chooses, or the one who is getting attacked? If it is the one who is getting attacked, you need a (or reveals they can't).
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Hand - King's Court, Ruined Village, Estate, Copper, Possession
Turn -
BBobb plays King's Court
and plays a Ruined Village.
getting +1 Action
and plays the Ruined Village again.
getting +1 Action
and plays the Ruined village a third time.
getting +1 Action.
BBobb plays a Copper.
BBobb buys a Poor House.
(BBobb draws: 2 King's Courts and 3 Possessions)
BBobb=GOD

Gubump

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #303 on: February 03, 2021, 12:38:29 pm »
+2

For Ghost Pirate, is this supposed to be the one who plays the card who chooses, or the one who is getting attacked? If it is the one who is getting attacked, you need a (or reveals they can't).

It's just "discards a card" if they don't gain a copy. The only way they couldn't do that is if they have no cards in hand, which they don't need to reveal.
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BBobb

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #304 on: February 03, 2021, 12:44:40 pm »
+1

For Ghost Pirate, is this supposed to be the one who plays the card who chooses, or the one who is getting attacked? If it is the one who is getting attacked, you need a (or reveals they can't).

It's just "discards a card" if they don't gain a copy. The only way they couldn't do that is if they have no cards in hand, which they don't need to reveal.
Ah, I get it now. Thanks.
Logged
Hand - King's Court, Ruined Village, Estate, Copper, Possession
Turn -
BBobb plays King's Court
and plays a Ruined Village.
getting +1 Action
and plays the Ruined Village again.
getting +1 Action
and plays the Ruined village a third time.
getting +1 Action.
BBobb plays a Copper.
BBobb buys a Poor House.
(BBobb draws: 2 King's Courts and 3 Possessions)
BBobb=GOD

Carline

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #305 on: February 04, 2021, 08:03:53 am »
0

An Outpost variant and new Event

     
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Carline

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #306 on: February 04, 2021, 08:06:24 am »
0

Spell and cards that give it.

               
« Last Edit: February 04, 2021, 09:02:40 am by Carline »
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #307 on: February 04, 2021, 08:40:58 am »
+1

how big's the spell pile

Carline

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #308 on: February 04, 2021, 08:44:39 am »
0

how big's the spell pile

I'm still trying to find the best amount. How many do you think are good?
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #309 on: February 04, 2021, 08:50:06 am »
0

how big's the spell pile

I'm still trying to find the best amount. How many do you think are good?
i mean, start with same scaling as curses? or just do "same as any other victory pile"?

BBobb

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #310 on: February 04, 2021, 10:51:26 am »
+1

The problem with Pandora's box is that often you can just gain a $5 card while junking your opponents with estates or Coppers. I would not have your opponents be forced to gain a card.

For Spellbound, for tracking issues, I would make it "trash a card you have in play that you would discard during Clean-Up this turn" to get rid of those problems.
Logged
Hand - King's Court, Ruined Village, Estate, Copper, Possession
Turn -
BBobb plays King's Court
and plays a Ruined Village.
getting +1 Action
and plays the Ruined Village again.
getting +1 Action
and plays the Ruined village a third time.
getting +1 Action.
BBobb plays a Copper.
BBobb buys a Poor House.
(BBobb draws: 2 King's Courts and 3 Possessions)
BBobb=GOD

Carline

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #311 on: February 04, 2021, 12:47:09 pm »
0

The problem with Pandora's box is that often you can just gain a $5 card while junking your opponents with estates or Coppers. I would not have your opponents be forced to gain a card.

For Spellbound, for tracking issues, I would make it "trash a card you have in play that you would discard during Clean-Up this turn" to get rid of those problems.

The idea of Pandora's Box includes this additional $1 to junk when you buy a $5.
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BBobb

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #312 on: February 04, 2021, 01:23:50 pm »
0

The problem with Pandora's box is that often you can just gain a $5 card while junking your opponents with estates or Coppers. I would not have your opponents be forced to gain a card.

For Spellbound, for tracking issues, I would make it "trash a card you have in play that you would discard during Clean-Up this turn" to get rid of those problems.

The idea of Pandora's Box includes this additional $1 to junk when you buy a $5.
Yes, but a lot of the time when you are buying a $5 card, you are paying $6, especially later in the game.
Logged
Hand - King's Court, Ruined Village, Estate, Copper, Possession
Turn -
BBobb plays King's Court
and plays a Ruined Village.
getting +1 Action
and plays the Ruined Village again.
getting +1 Action
and plays the Ruined village a third time.
getting +1 Action.
BBobb plays a Copper.
BBobb buys a Poor House.
(BBobb draws: 2 King's Courts and 3 Possessions)
BBobb=GOD

segura

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #313 on: February 04, 2021, 02:20:18 pm »
+1

I like Spellbound a lot. But it could very well be too good. Ignoring the trashing and self junking, a nonterminal that yields 2 VPs could be too good. You smartly put in a limit, i.e. you cannot build a Golden Deck due to the trashing.
So yeah, brilliant card but you also gotta plantest the hell out of it to make sure that it is not broken.
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faust

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #314 on: February 05, 2021, 04:18:19 am »
+1

I've meant to go through this for while, but it seems a big task to go through all the cards, so I'll just comment bit by bit, in the order from the starting post. Note that I haven't read previous comments, so there may be things in here that have been discussed before.

Jane Doe - "trash a card from your hand" is by far the most useful option on this, the rest is very situational. I would try to reduce the number of options. +1 buy seems superfluous on a card that you'll mostly get if you already have extra buys. Gaining a Horse also hardly ever seems worth getting this for. The when-trash seems a bit out of place on this card; it makes more sense on a card that isn't already a 1-shot.

Healer - the Reaction is clever in that it decently counters both discard and junking attacks. I feel like the on-play effect is too strong though. Compare Trade Route, which costs more, is weaker, and does not have a Reaction. Not sure what the best fix would be. I think removing the trash on play and, to make up for it, allowing Healer to also trigger upon other healers being played would be a decently interesting nerf.

Mirror - this is a neat card. I worry that it can get a bit confusing at times - as written, if I Mirror a Mirror, then I only need to trash one Mirror and no other card.. is that intentional? It might be better to use a wording that requires a card trash, like "you may trash the played card. If you didn't, trash this."

Monk - seems fine. One worry is it might be too strong with emulators; maybe make the +VP conditional on having Exiled the Monk (Way of the Mouse/Monk is crazy). There are also ways to make this go inifinite, if you have a way of continually gaining Monks (e.g. from the trash) to discard your Exiled Monks, but that seems like more of a feature than a bug.

Resistance - this one has a bit too much going on for my liking. I don't see why it has the thing where you can put it back on the mat instantly, I think that should just be scrapped. I am not in love with the double dividing line, but I can kind of see why it has extra buys. It might be a solution to just put the buy as an extra on-play effect and get rid of the when-gain.

5 at a times seems good, yes? I'll be back ;) Don't go posting new cards that mess up my order in the mean time!
« Last Edit: February 05, 2021, 04:20:08 am by faust »
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faust

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #315 on: February 05, 2021, 04:52:30 am »
+1

Alright, I'll go through some more. The cards are all fairly high quality, which is it fun to come back to this!

Small Village - Solid design. I don't have any complaints.

Taverner - this is basically strictly better than a vanilla "+1 card, +1 action, +2 buys", which is arguably better than Market Square. I like the idea of +buys on demand, but I feel for the concept to work out it has to be a bit harder to actually get these to the Tavern mat, or to call them. Maybe you only get to call them when you buy a Treasure? Something like that would be good to nerf it and make it more interesting.

Wanderer - I don't understand the theming; what does a Wanderer have to do with Coppers? Anyways, this is decent if unexciting. I would maybe up the price to $3 just to not make it too good in 5/2 openings.

Flame Keeper - This is cool, but I think it needs to cost $4. It is just too powerful as a double opener. Makes it very easy to reach double $5 hands in the second shuffle, and cycles. Compare Mill and Conspirator, both of which are similar to this in different ways, and both also cost $4.

Gambler - This kind of feels like it should be an Attack, but then again it's hardly that. An issue is that if you play multiple Gambler, you may force one player and one player alone to reveal their entire hand in order to block you. It's also another card that really wants to cost $4, given how easy it is to activate in the early game. Finally, it's slow; there is a meaningful decision for the opponent every time you play this, and this slows the game down too much since it's also a cantrip. I would rather go the Tribute route and just have cards flipped from the top of your opponent's deck. This makes it a bit stronger though, so it should then really cost $4 (and might even be too good at that price point).
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faust

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #316 on: February 05, 2021, 06:37:50 am »
+2

Back for another batch!

Horse Lady - this seems good. It can eventually produce as much draw as a Lab, but everything is quite delayed and you have to line it up correctly. I am not 100% sure that the instructions work - it is clear what is intended, but it#s not clear to me that the moving from Horse happens after the moving from Horse Lady.

Hoyden - this is too strong. As a non-handsize-decreasing sifter, it's about on par with Forum. Forum is better as you get to draw first, but this makes up for it by also giving Actions. Since it's on a level with Forum, the cost should be like a $4.5, which isn't feasible. So it needs to be weakened so it can cost $4. i think a sensible nerf would be to make the discard a hard 3 instead of "up to 3"; that way, at least sometimes you'll be forced to discard good cards.

Maid - fine I suppose? It's not super exciting, but then, not every card needs to be.

Minstrel - an effective way to look for Actions. It seems solid.

Morning - It's weird that you can buy a Morning... This is pretty cool and I think balanced. I am starting to feel like you have a whole lot of Lab variants in your expansion though, if you want this to work as an expansion you'll probably need to cut down on those.
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Carline

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #317 on: February 05, 2021, 06:44:27 am »
0

Alright, I'll go through some more. The cards are all fairly high quality, which is it fun to come back to this!

Small Village - Solid design. I don't have any complaints.

Taverner - this is basically strictly better than a vanilla "+1 card, +1 action, +2 buys", which is arguably better than Market Square. I like the idea of +buys on demand, but I feel for the concept to work out it has to be a bit harder to actually get these to the Tavern mat, or to call them. Maybe you only get to call them when you buy a Treasure? Something like that would be good to nerf it and make it more interesting.

Wanderer - I don't understand the theming; what does a Wanderer have to do with Coppers? Anyways, this is decent if unexciting. I would maybe up the price to $3 just to not make it too good in 5/2 openings.

Flame Keeper - This is cool, but I think it needs to cost $4. It is just too powerful as a double opener. Makes it very easy to reach double $5 hands in the second shuffle, and cycles. Compare Mill and Conspirator, both of which are similar to this in different ways, and both also cost $4.

Gambler - This kind of feels like it should be an Attack, but then again it's hardly that. An issue is that if you play multiple Gambler, you may force one player and one player alone to reveal their entire hand in order to block you. It's also another card that really wants to cost $4, given how easy it is to activate in the early game. Finally, it's slow; there is a meaningful decision for the opponent every time you play this, and this slows the game down too much since it's also a cantrip. I would rather go the Tribute route and just have cards flipped from the top of your opponent's deck. This makes it a bit stronger though, so it should then really cost $4 (and might even be too good at that price point).

Thank you very much Faust!

I will see about all your suggestions. By now, two answers:

I put the +2 buys on gain in Resistance to it not be a dead card when Kingdom doesn't have an attack, so you may want it to buy it to use as Travelling Fair. As you and others pointed, this card can be improved in the other features, so I'm reviewing it.

When I think about Wanderer theme, I think about these wanderers who sometimes have a few money and spent it and when don't have money at all get a temporary job only to produce the necessary for going on wandering.
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Carline

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #318 on: February 05, 2021, 07:03:13 am »
0


Enchantments are a Landscape with a rule valid for all game. I think about them as a way to implement an idea of a card Shael posted in Discord asking if it could be a Reaction.

Some possibilities:






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faust

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #319 on: February 05, 2021, 08:29:13 am »
+1

Native - I like it. It's good that it can't play other Natives, as this would turn it too much into Venture. It has very powerful combos with Tunnel and Patron, that is something to look out for but it's probably fine.

Nurse - decent mix of Ghost Town/Night Watchman bonus. I think for simplicity I would just do set 1 aside, discard 1, topdeck 1.

Nymphs - very neat payload. Probably balanced? The +Buy might be too much.

Sisterhood - this is pretty weak but like any +Buy, it has its use cases.

Tiara - I don't understand this card. It gains Silvers but you also have to trash Silvers to keep it around? Seems like you want this when you want Silvers, but then you don't want to trash them again. It feels like you should decide whether this is a complete 1-shot or a more regular Silver gainer. Also not sure it needs the "you may"; if you don't want Silvers, why did you get this in the first place?

Valkyries - the reaction on this is the reaction that really should have been on Horse Traders... this one is fine but it's fairly complex for a card the will never be really exciting.

Workers - I'm not the biggest fan of Villager spamming. The card is probably balanced but I'd prefer not to play with it.

Spellbook - given that you now have Spells in this set, it's very odd that this doesn't use them, especially considering they actually work much like VP tokens. It's a slightly more interesting Great Hall which is decent.

Amazon - two of these are like 2 Villages I suppose, though weaker. The problem I see is that without gainers, this is pretty weak and can cost $3, whereas with gainers it becomes an absolute powerhouse. It could give just one action and allow you to play the next gained card instead, to make it more interesting when you only get the next card during your buy phase.

Bootleg - I think not doing a Black Market-style setup rule for this will just confuse people - how do you randomize? If it's supposed to be really random, then you should have the same chance of getting each card on every play, so if you use a randomizer deck, you will have to shuffle it after each play of this... which doesn't seem feasible. It's also pretty swingy; if at one point you reveal 3 awesome cards then that's just a huge benefit. Black Market has this issue to some extent but at least you still need to be able to pay for what you get, so you won't just get a King's Court on shuffle 2.

Yay for 10 in a row! I should get back to working now though...
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Carline

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #320 on: February 05, 2021, 09:06:24 am »
0

Tiara - I don't understand this card. It gains Silvers but you also have to trash Silvers to keep it around? Seems like you want this when you want Silvers, but then you don't want to trash them again. It feels like you should decide whether this is a complete 1-shot or a more regular Silver gainer. Also not sure it needs the "you may"; if you don't want Silvers, why did you get this in the first place?



Thank you again!

Tiara is a Silver manager. You may gain one Silver at each play if you want. You may gain two Silvers at a play trashing Tiara. Or you may trash a Silver at each play without gaining one, if you want to get rid of Silvers. When you trashed all the Silvers you want to trash, you may autotrash Tiara.

Playing options with it:

- Gain 2 Silvers and trash Tiara.

- Gain 2 Silvers and trash a Silver you have in play. Final result, 1 Silver gained.

- Don't gain two Silvers and trash a Silver in play.

- Don't gain two Silvers and trash Tiara.

In any of this cases, you can play your Silvers before or after play Tiara, according with what you want it to do.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2021, 09:20:13 am by Carline »
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faust

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #321 on: February 05, 2021, 09:19:28 am »
+1

Tiara - I don't understand this card. It gains Silvers but you also have to trash Silvers to keep it around? Seems like you want this when you want Silvers, but then you don't want to trash them again. It feels like you should decide whether this is a complete 1-shot or a more regular Silver gainer. Also not sure it needs the "you may"; if you don't want Silvers, why did you get this in the first place?



Thank you again!

Tiara is a Silver manager. You may gain one Silver at each play if you want. You may gain two Silvers at a play trashing Tiara. Or you may trash a Silver at each play without gaining one, if you want to get rid of Silvers. When you trashed all the Silvers you want to trash, you may autotrash Tiara.
I am still confused about why you need that much Silver managing. In a normal game you get like, 2-3 Silvers? Sure there might come a point where I don't want them in my deck anymore, but it's not like I'll buy Tiara, which mind you comes with another of those things I don't really want, just to very slowly get rid of them.

So I don't think it works when you want to get rid of Silver. It's only realistic use is mass Silver gaining a la Masterpiece. In which case, 95% of the time, I'll just use this as a one-shot for 3 Silvers. (the other 5% are games with Conquest) A Treasure that does nothing except net-gain one Silver isn't worth keeping around in pretty much any deck.

EDIT: Reacting to your edit! I guess my issue is that the only realistically usable option from the ones you listed is Gain 2 Silvers, trash Tiara.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2021, 09:21:20 am by faust »
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Timinou

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #322 on: February 05, 2021, 09:42:07 am »
+1

I think it's fine to have one-shot cards that you may only buy once a game.

IMO, Tiara might be more useful if it gave you two Silvers when gained (it could cost $4 instead of $3), because then I could see this being used more often to open games where you really want to hit $5 or $6 after the first shuffle.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2021, 10:10:07 am by Timinou »
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Carline

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #323 on: February 05, 2021, 09:45:57 am »
0

Tiara - I don't understand this card. It gains Silvers but you also have to trash Silvers to keep it around? Seems like you want this when you want Silvers, but then you don't want to trash them again. It feels like you should decide whether this is a complete 1-shot or a more regular Silver gainer. Also not sure it needs the "you may"; if you don't want Silvers, why did you get this in the first place?

Thank you again!



Tiara is a Silver manager. You may gain one Silver at each play if you want. You may gain two Silvers at a play trashing Tiara. Or you may trash a Silver at each play without gaining one, if you want to get rid of Silvers. When you trashed all the Silvers you want to trash, you may autotrash Tiara.
I am still confused about why you need that much Silver managing. In a normal game you get like, 2-3 Silvers? Sure there might come a point where I don't want them in my deck anymore, but it's not like I'll buy Tiara, which mind you comes with another of those things I don't really want, just to very slowly get rid of them.

So I don't think it works when you want to get rid of Silver. It's only realistic use is mass Silver gaining a la Masterpiece. In which case, 95% of the time, I'll just use this as a one-shot for 3 Silvers. (the other 5% are games with Conquest) A Treasure that does nothing except net-gain one Silver isn't worth keeping around in pretty much any deck.

EDIT: Reacting to your edit! I guess my issue is that the only realistically usable option from the ones you listed is Gain 2 Silvers, trash Tiara.

I think it's fine to have one-shot cards that you may only buy once a game.

IMO, Tiara might be more useful if it gave you two Silvers when gained (it could cost $4 instead of $3), because then I could this being used more often to open games where you really want to hit $5 or $6 after the first shuffle.

Thank you both. I think I can do it making it be a Silver itself and costing $4.

« Last Edit: February 05, 2021, 10:01:08 am by Carline »
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #324 on: February 05, 2021, 10:31:03 am »
+1

We're about to hit a rough patch! The next five are all cards I have some sort of issue with.

Dame - This has the potential to generate a lot of draw just from a single card. It's going to be extremely strong with other Horse gainers. On its own, it is probably fine. I would maybe get rid of the "while in play" and just add something like "the next time you play a Horse this turn, +1 card".

Duplication - this card bothers me. I think the main reason is that the thing it is named for - Duplication - isn't its primary use. That would be the trashing. If you look at the trashing sid,e this is much like a worse Temple - you get it to thin your deck, and then later on you may get additional copies for some +VP. Trashing a card to gain 2 copies of it isn't an effect that you want all that often, since it means you won't be able to play that card. And in the situations where that is good, it drains piles too easily.

Emissary - I have doubts about Copper junking. It feels like this leads to an endless attacking slog. Ambassador wars at least end at some point because you return more than you receive. With this, if both of you play an Emissary each turn, then you'll end up where you started in terms of junk, and with more players it's even worse. And it goes on for a long time. I also don't get how the Heirloom connects to Emissary. It's an okay Heirloom, but I don't see the need for it.

Expectancy - Not sure about this. It seems like a good strategy for the opponent is to spam you with extra Expectancies - they cost $4, so you won't get any benefit, and are terminal so they'll clog up your deck. Occasionally a Curse will be worth it, if you know that the opponent doesn't have the +Buy to make use of extra cash. This will be terrible with Potions. Finally, it can be extremely swingy: If the opponent picks Duchy, then either you get a free +3 VP, or you junk yourself for a Camel Train effect. It seems that this would make games unfun.

Expulsion - Definitely too strong. Imagine how easy it is to set up a pin with this+Rabble. It would probably be fine if it only targets players with a full 5-card hand.
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