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Author Topic: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline  (Read 35141 times)

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Timinou

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #275 on: January 10, 2021, 04:23:52 pm »
+1

The problem is not the power level of the compensation but that the effect is far too good to be counterweights by anything. Just imagine Heiress in a Kingdom with Mountebank. Alice plays Heiress as Double Mountebank, Bob gains 2 Curses, 2 Coppers and a Mountebank.


Would this version work?



It should say costing less than this, so that you cannot play a Mountebank twice if you played Highway before Heiress.  I don’t think giving your opponents a copy of the card adequately compensates for the fact that this is still way better than Band of Misfits at the same cost.  For example, you could play a card like Moneylender twice and if your opponents already have one in their deck it is actually to your benefit if they gain another copy.
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Carline

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #276 on: January 10, 2021, 04:35:19 pm »
0

The problem is not the power level of the compensation but that the effect is far too good to be counterweights by anything. Just imagine Heiress in a Kingdom with Mountebank. Alice plays Heiress as Double Mountebank, Bob gains 2 Curses, 2 Coppers and a Mountebank.


Would this version work?



It should say costing less than this, so that you cannot play a Mountebank twice if you played Highway before Heiress.  I don’t think giving your opponents a copy of the card adequately compensates for the fact that this is still way better than Band of Misfits at the same cost.  For example, you could play a card like Moneylender twice and if your opponents already have one in their deck it is actually to your benefit if they gain another copy.


What if gain is optional?

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Timinou

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #277 on: January 11, 2021, 08:15:33 am »
+1

It still looks too strong compared to Band of Misfits (and even Captain). 

Like segura pointed out, a Throne Room variant that is pretty much always guaranteed to work and that is also an emulator is very powerful.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2021, 01:40:01 pm by Timinou »
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BBobb

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #278 on: January 11, 2021, 10:49:55 am »
0


What if gain is optional?


The problem with the card is, that getting too choose any card to play twice without requiring to have it in your hand (like Throne Room needs) is too powerful. For example, Pearl Diver is one of the weakest cost cards, so giving it to your opponents is a tiny cost. On the other hand, when you play it with Heiress, Heiress becomes a Lost City (with a tiny upside).
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Hand - King's Court, Ruined Village, Estate, Copper, Possession
Turn -
BBobb plays King's Court
… and plays a Ruined Village.
… … getting +1 Action
… and plays the Ruined Village again.
… … getting +1 Action
… and plays the Ruined village a third time.
… … getting +1 Action.
BBobb plays a Copper.
BBobb buys a Poor House.
(BBobb draws: 2 King's Courts and 3 Possessions)
BBobb=GOD

silverspawn

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #279 on: January 11, 2021, 11:05:28 am »
0

I think it's actually fine. Band of Mifits plays a card once. This plays it twice & each other player gains a copy. That means the difference is, you play a card from the supply, and each other player gains a copy of it. Is this good? In general, probably not. I rather have another Ironmonger than get the ~+2 card, +1 Action bonus in my turn. There are many situations where it is good after all, like the card being a cantrip, or the card not being something you want to have too often, but so what? Why can't we have strong 5$s?

Would you buy this almost every game? Probably. Also true for Captain.
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Timinou

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #280 on: January 11, 2021, 01:53:01 pm »
+1

I don't see why the current version should cost less than Captain. 

Maybe if your opponents gained a copy of the card directly to their hand or were allowed to play it once from the Supply at the start of their own turn (although tracking might be problematic), it might be fine...still not sure though.

I guess in some sense giving your opponents that card could potentially limit Heiress' ability, since that pile is more likely to run out faster and then you wouldn't be able to play it again with Heiress....but depending on what the board looks like, it might not matter too much. 
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segura

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #281 on: January 11, 2021, 03:13:55 pm »
0

Piles running out faster actually makes Heiress stronger as the value of the gained card for the opponent decreases (they can play it less often if the game is shorter).
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Carline

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #282 on: January 11, 2021, 07:39:26 pm »
0


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BBobb

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #283 on: January 11, 2021, 08:36:57 pm »
0



For formatting, I would put the "twice" after "than this" (sounds better) and would also put a "if they did" before the "They may discard" part, (otherwise, someone will probably ask "to gain what to hand?" Also, for the card's actual on-play ability, I think that its somewhat balanced for 2 and 3 players. But, for example, with 6 players, 6 plays of Heiress by any player can end the game. I can only imagine a game of 6 player where everyone opens / and buys and Heiress. The game will probably be over very quickly.
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Hand - King's Court, Ruined Village, Estate, Copper, Possession
Turn -
BBobb plays King's Court
… and plays a Ruined Village.
… … getting +1 Action
… and plays the Ruined Village again.
… … getting +1 Action
… and plays the Ruined village a third time.
… … getting +1 Action.
BBobb plays a Copper.
BBobb buys a Poor House.
(BBobb draws: 2 King's Courts and 3 Possessions)
BBobb=GOD

BBobb

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #284 on: January 12, 2021, 12:30:14 am »
0

For the new cards, here are my wording changes:

Path:
"If this is first Path you played this turn"
"when you buy a card, copies of it card with that name cost less this turn"
For the first one, see Crossroads. For the second, see Ambassador (and others)

Fertility (BTW, I think this is what Harvest should've been):
"differently named revealed card revealed"
See Harvest

Gambler:
"The player to your left reveals a card from their hand. Reveal your hand. If it has at least a copy of the revealed card You may reveal a copy of it for +1 Card.
Though I don't think any card uses this mechanic, see cards that need a single copy of something in hand.

EDIT: Wording was already changed

Heiress:
Already gave my thoughts on wording in my last post.

Bootleg:
"The player to your left chooses one of them"
EDIT: I would also make it like Black Market (create a Bootleg deck)
See Envoy
« Last Edit: January 12, 2021, 01:31:38 am by BBobb »
Logged
Hand - King's Court, Ruined Village, Estate, Copper, Possession
Turn -
BBobb plays King's Court
… and plays a Ruined Village.
… … getting +1 Action
… and plays the Ruined Village again.
… … getting +1 Action
… and plays the Ruined village a third time.
… … getting +1 Action.
BBobb plays a Copper.
BBobb buys a Poor House.
(BBobb draws: 2 King's Courts and 3 Possessions)
BBobb=GOD

Gubump

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #285 on: January 12, 2021, 12:54:20 am »
0

Gambler:
"The player to your left reveals a card from their hand. Reveal your hand. If it has at least a copy of the revealed card You may reveal a copy of it for +1 Card.

Carline's most recent version of Gambler has that wording, but specifies "from your hand," as it should.
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All of my fan card mockups are credited to Shard of Honor and his Dominion Card Image Generator (the new fork).
If you're having font issues with the generator, click this link and click on the button to request temporary access to the demo server that loads the font.

BBobb

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #286 on: January 12, 2021, 01:30:29 am »
0

Gambler:
"The player to your left reveals a card from their hand. Reveal your hand. If it has at least a copy of the revealed card You may reveal a copy of it for +1 Card.

Carline's most recent version of Gambler has that wording, but specifies "from your hand," as it should.
You are right. Thanks. I'll edit my post
Logged
Hand - King's Court, Ruined Village, Estate, Copper, Possession
Turn -
BBobb plays King's Court
… and plays a Ruined Village.
… … getting +1 Action
… and plays the Ruined Village again.
… … getting +1 Action
… and plays the Ruined village a third time.
… … getting +1 Action.
BBobb plays a Copper.
BBobb buys a Poor House.
(BBobb draws: 2 King's Courts and 3 Possessions)
BBobb=GOD

Carline

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #287 on: January 29, 2021, 03:09:49 am »
0

New additions:

          
          

Edited: Added Spellbook.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2021, 08:40:43 am by Carline »
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segura

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #288 on: January 29, 2021, 07:25:21 am »
+2

Samurai is likely too good. It is Lab plus Peddler and having an (integrated) Peddler seems better than the one-shot Villager for the opponents.
I like Rebel but the Attack looks too powerful, unless you intend that the card should more or less totally shut down engine play.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2021, 07:27:15 am by segura »
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Gubump

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #289 on: January 29, 2021, 01:04:58 pm »
+1

Spellbook's bottom-most section (the self-cost increasing) should say "during your turns." See Peddler, Destrier, and Fisherman. Janus' bottom section would be better worded as "during your turns, if your Journey token is face down, this costs less."

Wording aside, there's a big issue with cost increasing effects like Spellbook: What happens if I play 4 Bridges and have one Spellbook in play? Do the 4 Bridges try to lower its cost to -, instead reducing its cost to , and then Spellbook raises its cost to ? Or does Spellbook raise its cost to first and then the Bridges reduce its price to ?
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Carline

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #290 on: January 30, 2021, 12:17:15 am »
0

Samurai is likely too good. It is Lab plus Peddler and having an (integrated) Peddler seems better than the one-shot Villager for the opponents.

Yes, changed to Villager or Coffers, their choice. I hope now it's enough drawback.

     

I like Rebel but the Attack looks too powerful, unless you intend that the card should more or less totally shut down engine play.

Previous version was compulsory Chameleon only to first Action. I'll go back to it.



Thank you!
« Last Edit: January 30, 2021, 01:33:15 am by Carline »
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Carline

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #291 on: January 30, 2021, 12:29:01 am »
+1

Spellbook's bottom-most section (the self-cost increasing) should say "during your turns." See Peddler, Destrier, and Fisherman. Janus' bottom section would be better worded as "during your turns, if your Journey token is face down, this costs less."

Wording aside, there's a big issue with cost increasing effects like Spellbook: What happens if I play 4 Bridges and have one Spellbook in play? Do the 4 Bridges try to lower its cost to -, instead reducing its cost to , and then Spellbook raises its cost to ? Or does Spellbook raise its cost to first and then the Bridges reduce its price to ?

About cost reducer issue, as we talk on Discord, maybe there's no problem, we only have to add positive and negative modifiers in any order and round to zero if result is negative.

Something_Smart there: "That's FAQ material. It seems intuitive that you would do all cost calculation before rounding up to 0, which means the order doesn't matter".

Added, "during your turns" to both cards. Changed Spellbook image, I think this one has more movement.

Thank you!

     
« Last Edit: January 30, 2021, 12:58:34 am by Carline »
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Carline

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #292 on: January 31, 2021, 06:21:49 am »
+1


New cards:

                                   
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LibraryAdventurer

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #293 on: January 31, 2021, 07:40:29 am »
+1

The discarding option of Resistance makes it too easy to keep it on your mat and use it again IMO. I don't think it needs that. Being a cantrip, it's easy to get it back on your mat anyway.

Native is a Peddler+ which is clearly a $5. -Oops, not exactly a Peddler+ since it needs to find an action you don't have a copy of in play, so it needs variety. Still, it could probably cost $4.
A Hoyden is a Cellar with +1 Card and an additional option for +actions. Seems like a strong $4 to me.
I don't understand why Gladiatrix limits the cost of the card you trash.

I like Swineherd.
Is Jane Doe a kingdom card that only costs a buy? Interesting. I think I like it. It seems strong for a free card, but it's probably fine since it's a one-shot.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2021, 07:42:15 am by LibraryAdventurer »
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segura

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #294 on: January 31, 2021, 08:12:10 am »
+2

The discarding option of Resistance makes it too easy to keep it on your mat and use it again IMO. I don't think it needs that. Being a cantrip, it's easy to get it back on your mat anyway.
I'd go further. Cantrip Reserve Moats are an old idea and they do pretty much shut down Attack play entirely. In multiplayer they might be viable.
But the two extras this has over a pure cantrip Reserve Moat push it over the top.

Native is an interesting Peddler variant. I'd also test it at $4.

Gladiatrix is likely too strong. I like it as a Conspirator/Vassal/DoublePeddler variant but the trashing option makes it too good/versatile. Arguably it needs a secondary option, without it the power level might be around or below that of Vassal, but a weaker one.
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Gubump

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #295 on: January 31, 2021, 01:07:35 pm »
+2

I'll also expand on what the others were saying about Resistance: One big problem with Reserve-Moats is how much worse they are in multiplayer. It doesn't matter if you can Reserve-Moat when the player to your left Militias if one of your other opponents also has a Militia.

If you're playing a 4P game, and all of your opponents have Militias, then blocking their Attacks is actually worse than just accepting the Attack, because you either have the same handsize at the end but don't have your Resistance on your mat anymore, or have just 2 cards in hand instead of 3.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2021, 01:09:37 pm by Gubump »
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #296 on: January 31, 2021, 01:47:18 pm »
+1

I'll also expand on what the others were saying about Resistance: One big problem with Reserve-Moats is how much worse they are in multiplayer. It doesn't matter if you can Reserve-Moat when the player to your left Militias if one of your other opponents also has a Militia.

If you're playing a 4P game, and all of your opponents have Militias, then blocking their Attacks is actually worse than just accepting the Attack, because you either have the same handsize at the end but don't have your Resistance on your mat anymore, or have just 2 cards in hand instead of 3.
You could still do a Reserve-Moat by saying "You may call this to set it aside. If you do, you are unaffected by attacks until your next turn."

Carline

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #297 on: February 01, 2021, 03:24:06 am »
0

New ones:

               
« Last Edit: February 01, 2021, 06:22:07 am by Carline »
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Gubump

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #298 on: February 01, 2021, 02:09:12 pm »
+1

New ones:

               

Typos/grammar errors in Expectancy: It should say "the player to your left sets aside a card from another Supply pile." "Pick one of them randomly and gain it" would be better worded as "gain a random one of them," IMO.

Lanterns could be worded more simply: "You may shuffle your discard pile into your deck. Do this 3 times: Look at the bottom card of your deck and either discard it or put it on top. Then, +3 Cards." That said, I think it would be more reasonable power-wise if it let you look at the 3 bottom cards at once instead of one at a time.
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Carline

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #299 on: February 02, 2021, 11:35:16 am »
0

Nem cards and new version of Lanterns.

                         
« Last Edit: February 03, 2021, 04:26:41 am by Carline »
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