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Author Topic: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline  (Read 47810 times)

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Carline

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #200 on: January 02, 2021, 02:33:14 am »
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The name and the art don't really make sense together, IMHO. Based on the art, I'd suggest calling it "Noblewoman," or something similar.

Speaking of art, where do you find your art, Carline? Did you draw your art for all these cards yourself?

I want to name the expensive objects she uses and own, not the woman. Like other Treasures of the set (Tiara, Goldens Spoils), the woman is there but the name is the name of the Treasure. I though "riches" could be used this way. Which word would be better?

I search for images in the Web. What I normally do is write in Google the keyword I want plus "fantasy" and "art".

When I would finish working in cards funcionalities and stop from changing I will add the informations about artists or image source. It would be better if I did it from the beggining, but now I have to spend some time to compile these informations.

Edit: Changed name to "Jewelry".

« Last Edit: January 02, 2021, 03:01:00 am by Carline »
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Gubump

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #201 on: January 02, 2021, 02:52:12 am »
+1

The name and the art don't really make sense together, IMHO. Based on the art, I'd suggest calling it "Noblewoman," or something similar.

Speaking of art, where do you find your art, Carline? Did you draw your art for all these cards yourself?

I want to name the expensive objects she uses and own, not the woman. Like other treasures of the set (Tiara, Goldens Spoils), the woman is there but the name is the name of the treasure.

Ah, that makes sense. Jewelry is a much better name, IMO.
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Carline

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #202 on: January 02, 2021, 03:48:04 am »
+1


I applied more zoom to the image to focus more in the jewelry.

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Timinou

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #203 on: January 02, 2021, 10:29:04 am »
+1

Does Jewelry itself count if it is played as an Action? 

Unlike Horn of Plenty, you could play it with Throne Room or King's Court.  Just wondering if you considered that when determining the cost.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2021, 10:39:34 am by Timinou »
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segura

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #204 on: January 02, 2021, 11:12:48 am »
+2

HoP can be crowned.
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Gubump

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #205 on: January 02, 2021, 11:17:35 am »
+2

Does Jewelry itself count if it is played as an Action?

There's no such concept as "playing a card as an Action." It's an Action regardless of when you play it. It always counts itself.

Unlike Horn of Plenty, you could play it with Throne Room or King's Court.  Just wondering if you considered that when determining the cost.

She took the pricing advise from me and Something_Smart. I don't know if SS took its Thronability into account, but I didn't think about that.

HoP can be crowned.

HoP only has two Throne Room variants that work on it (Counterfeit and Crown), and even then, one of them trashes the Throned card. Jewelry, on the other hand, has both of those, Disciple, Ghost, KC, Mastermind, Procession, Royal Carriage, Scepter, and Throne Room (10 TR variants). 2 is negligible, 10 not so much. (I'm not counting Citadel because it wouldn't be a useful combo with Jewelry the vast majority of the time.)
« Last Edit: January 02, 2021, 11:20:16 am by Gubump »
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #206 on: January 02, 2021, 11:23:27 am »
+1

Does Jewelry itself count if it is played as an Action?

There's no such concept as "playing a card as an Action." It's an Action regardless of when you play it. It always counts itself.

OK, so even if Jewelry is played in the Buy phase as a Treasure, it would still count towards the number of Action cards in play due to having both card types, right?

Quote
Unlike Horn of Plenty, you could play it with Throne Room or King's Court.  Just wondering if you considered that when determining the cost.

She took the pricing advise from me and Something_Smart. I don't know if SS took its Thronability into account, but I didn't think about that.

HoP can be crowned.

HoP only has two Throne Room variants that work on it (Counterfeit and Crown), and even then, one of them trashes the Throned card. Jewelry, on the other hand, has both of those, Disciple, Ghost, KC, Mastermind, Procession, Royal Carriage, Scepter, and Throne Room (10 TR variants). 2 is negligible, 10 not so much. (I'm not counting Citadel because it wouldn't be a useful combo with Jewelry the vast majority of the time.)

Ghost and Mastermind wouldn't be particularly strong though, since you would play it at the start of the turn.  But I agree with your point in general. 
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segura

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #207 on: January 02, 2021, 11:49:56 am »
+1

HoP only has two Throne Room variants that work on it (Counterfeit and Crown), and even then, one of them trashes the Throned card. Jewelry, on the other hand, has both of those, Disciple, Ghost, KC, Mastermind, Procession, Royal Carriage, Scepter, and Throne Room (10 TR variants). 2 is negligible, 10 not so much. (I'm not counting Citadel because it wouldn't be a useful combo with Jewelry the vast majority of the time.)
Sure, but the card is bonkers not mainly due to number of TR variants. It is stronger and cheaper than HoP in most engines. Unlike with HoP you don't have to work for it.
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #208 on: January 02, 2021, 11:55:03 am »
+1

HoP only has two Throne Room variants that work on it (Counterfeit and Crown), and even then, one of them trashes the Throned card. Jewelry, on the other hand, has both of those, Disciple, Ghost, KC, Mastermind, Procession, Royal Carriage, Scepter, and Throne Room (10 TR variants). 2 is negligible, 10 not so much. (I'm not counting Citadel because it wouldn't be a useful combo with Jewelry the vast majority of the time.)
Sure, but the card is bonkers not mainly due to number of TR variants. It is stronger and cheaper than HoP in most engines. Unlike with HoP you don't have to work for it.

Also unlike HoP, however, play order matters more for Jewelry. Jewelry gains a card with an exact cost. You've convinced me that it should probably cost more, though. I think it could get away with costing .
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #209 on: January 02, 2021, 11:56:53 am »
+1

Well, to be fair, for early build-up, i.e. getting $4s and $5s, HoP is likely stronger.
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Carline

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #210 on: January 02, 2021, 03:16:10 pm »
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What if I remove the Treasure type and keep it only as an Action?
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #211 on: January 02, 2021, 03:23:31 pm »
+1

What if I remove the Treasure type and keep it only as an Action?
I'd also get rid of the "exactly" at that point/change it to "up to"; too hard to line up otherwise.
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Carline

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #212 on: January 02, 2021, 03:31:56 pm »
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What if I remove the Treasure type and keep it only as an Action?
I'd also get rid of the "exactly" at that point/change it to "up to"; too hard to line up otherwise.

I'm afraid it could be too strong with "up to". Sometimes is easy to play a lot of actions per turn.

Anyway, the main feature I'm trying to implement is this kind of Leprechaun condition, the challenge being playing the card at the right place in order.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2021, 04:16:32 pm by Carline »
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Carline

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #213 on: January 02, 2021, 04:22:32 pm »
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This version, which doesn't count itself, is still too strong at ?
« Last Edit: January 02, 2021, 04:24:21 pm by Carline »
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LittleFish

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #214 on: January 02, 2021, 04:48:14 pm »
+1



This version, which doesn't count itself, is still too strong at ?
Why not just say "... per Action card in play (excluding this)..."?
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #215 on: January 02, 2021, 05:02:27 pm »
+1



This version, which doesn't count itself, is still too strong at ?

I haven't read the discussion about this card, but I don't understand why this is an Action-Treasure hybrid. I can't see the appeal to be one. What do you think about the idea:

If it's your Action phase: Gain an Action card costing something ... something
If it's your Buy phase: Gain a Treasure costing something ... something.
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Carline

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #216 on: January 02, 2021, 05:19:25 pm »
+1



This version, which doesn't count itself, is still too strong at ?

I haven't read the discussion about this card, but I don't understand why this is an Action-Treasure hybrid. I can't see the appeal to be one. What do you think about the idea:

If it's your Action phase: Gain an Action card costing something ... something
If it's your Buy phase: Gain a Treasure costing something ... something.


Yes, I've already put in Discord a version exactly like you said:




But I think I prefer this version which could gain both, Actions or Treasures, in both phases. Both versions avoid the questions concerning to gain Victories.

« Last Edit: January 02, 2021, 05:22:29 pm by Carline »
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gambit05

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #217 on: January 02, 2021, 05:28:01 pm »
0



This version, which doesn't count itself, is still too strong at ?

I haven't read the discussion about this card, but I don't understand why this is an Action-Treasure hybrid. I can't see the appeal to be one. What do you think about the idea:

If it's your Action phase: Gain an Action card costing something ... something
If it's your Buy phase: Gain a Treasure costing something ... something.


Yes, I've already put in Discord a version exactly like you said:




But I think I prefer this version which could gain both, Actions or Treasures, in both phases. Both versions avoid the questions concerning to gain Victories.



Did you got any feedback? For me the top version looks very interesting and makes more sense why this is an Action-Treasure card. I mean it doesn't have to be exactly like this, but it is a good starting point in my opinion.

Anyway, it totally depends on what your intention is with this card.
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Carline

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #218 on: January 02, 2021, 05:33:24 pm »
0



This version, which doesn't count itself, is still too strong at ?

I haven't read the discussion about this card, but I don't understand why this is an Action-Treasure hybrid. I can't see the appeal to be one. What do you think about the idea:

If it's your Action phase: Gain an Action card costing something ... something
If it's your Buy phase: Gain a Treasure costing something ... something.


Yes, I've already put in Discord a version exactly like you said:




But I think I prefer this version which could gain both, Actions or Treasures, in both phases. Both versions avoid the questions concerning to gain Victories.



Did you got any feedback? For me the top version looks very interesting and makes more sense why this is an Action-Treasure card. I mean it doesn't have to be exactly like this, but it is a good starting point in my opinion.

Anyway, it totally depends on what your intention is with this card.

The top version is more elegant, the bottom version more versatile. Both make sense as Action-Treasure, as the condition is different in each phase even when the gained card could be the same. I don't know for sure which version I like more.

crlundy suggested to use "non-Victory". I think it may be a good idea to make bottom version a bit more elegant.

My intention is to make a gainer with the challenge of being played in the right place  in playing order. Other feature I want to be present is to be able to gain Actions in Action phase.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2021, 05:39:39 pm by Carline »
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gambit05

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #219 on: January 02, 2021, 05:41:08 pm »
0


The top version is more elegant, the bottom version more versatile. Both make sense as Action-Treasure,as the condition is different in each phase. I don't know for sure which I like more.

My intention is to make a gainer with the challenge of being played in the right place  in playing order. And also have an Action gainer in Action phase.

Hmm, then I think it would be better if it is not a Treasure. With the current version, you are likely playing it early on in the Buy phase when you have only a few Action cards. Later on, when you can play a lot of Action cards, you probably don't need the card anymore, or only for a one-time sacrifice to get a Province.

Edit: Just to be sure: I am talking about the version before, not about one of those posted in your last post.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2021, 05:44:14 pm by gambit05 »
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Carline

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #220 on: January 02, 2021, 05:50:35 pm »
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The top version is more elegant, the bottom version more versatile. Both make sense as Action-Treasure,as the condition is different in each phase. I don't know for sure which I like more.

My intention is to make a gainer with the challenge of being played in the right place  in playing order. And also have an Action gainer in Action phase.

Hmm, then I think it would be better if it is not a Treasure. With the current version, you are likely playing it early on in the Buy phase when you have only a few Action cards. Later on, when you can play a lot of Action cards, you probably don't need the card anymore, or only for a one-time sacrifice to get a Province.

Edit: Just to be sure: I am talking about the version before, not about one of those posted in your last post.

I like the only action type version, but I think it would be uselles if Kingdom doesn't allow to play many actions per turn.

So, maybe this version would be the best one. You can use it in both phases but get different things in each case, making Action phase use needed if you want to gain Actions. If the Kingdom doesn't allow to play many Actions, I think also players wouldn't have too much interest in gaining many Actions, so these Kingdoms wouldn't be so good for its Action gaining anyway.

« Last Edit: January 02, 2021, 06:09:29 pm by Carline »
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gambit05

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #221 on: January 02, 2021, 06:06:25 pm »
+1


The top version is more elegant, the bottom version more versatile. Both make sense as Action-Treasure,as the condition is different in each phase. I don't know for sure which I like more.

My intention is to make a gainer with the challenge of being played in the right place  in playing order. And also have an Action gainer in Action phase.

Hmm, then I think it would be better if it is not a Treasure. With the current version, you are likely playing it early on in the Buy phase when you have only a few Action cards. Later on, when you can play a lot of Action cards, you probably don't need the card anymore, or only for a one-time sacrifice to get a Province.

Edit: Just to be sure: I am talking about the version before, not about one of those posted in your last post.

I like the only action type version, but I think it would be uselles if Kingdom doesn't allow to play many actions per turn.

So, maybe this version would be the best one. You can use it in both phases but get different things in each case, making Action phase use needed if you want to gain Actions.



I think this looks quite good. The Treasure part is a bit odd, since Jewelry is flexible when it is played during the Buy phase, but on the other hand, it looks elegant as it has the equivalent wording of the Action phase.
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Carline

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #222 on: January 02, 2021, 06:19:47 pm »
0


The top version is more elegant, the bottom version more versatile. Both make sense as Action-Treasure,as the condition is different in each phase. I don't know for sure which I like more.

My intention is to make a gainer with the challenge of being played in the right place  in playing order. And also have an Action gainer in Action phase.

Hmm, then I think it would be better if it is not a Treasure. With the current version, you are likely playing it early on in the Buy phase when you have only a few Action cards. Later on, when you can play a lot of Action cards, you probably don't need the card anymore, or only for a one-time sacrifice to get a Province.

Edit: Just to be sure: I am talking about the version before, not about one of those posted in your last post.

I like the only action type version, but I think it would be uselles if Kingdom doesn't allow to play many actions per turn.

So, maybe this version would be the best one. You can use it in both phases but get different things in each case, making Action phase use needed if you want to gain Actions.



I think this looks quite good. The Treasure part is a bit odd, since Jewelry is flexible when it is played during the Buy phase, but on the other hand, it looks elegant as it has the equivalent wording of the Action phase.

In a few edge cases, like Bank or Scepter, or maybe Capitalism or Gamble, the feature about exact order playing in Buy phase could make some difference. Also with Fruit Mix from this set.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2021, 06:21:18 pm by Carline »
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #223 on: January 02, 2021, 06:30:04 pm »
+1


The top version is more elegant, the bottom version more versatile. Both make sense as Action-Treasure,as the condition is different in each phase. I don't know for sure which I like more.

My intention is to make a gainer with the challenge of being played in the right place  in playing order. And also have an Action gainer in Action phase.

Hmm, then I think it would be better if it is not a Treasure. With the current version, you are likely playing it early on in the Buy phase when you have only a few Action cards. Later on, when you can play a lot of Action cards, you probably don't need the card anymore, or only for a one-time sacrifice to get a Province.

Edit: Just to be sure: I am talking about the version before, not about one of those posted in your last post.

I like the only action type version, but I think it would be uselles if Kingdom doesn't allow to play many actions per turn.

So, maybe this version would be the best one. You can use it in both phases but get different things in each case, making Action phase use needed if you want to gain Actions. If the Kingdom doesn't allow to play many Actions, I think also players wouldn't have too much interest in gaining many Actions, so these Kingdoms wouldn't be so good for its Action gaining anyway.



Could you maybe make one of those "Otherwise, " rather than specifying Action/Buy phase, just in case we ever get like, a new phase you can play actions or treasures in, or to make it play better in games with this and alion8me's "Lunar Ritual" or whatever?
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Carline

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #224 on: January 02, 2021, 06:40:40 pm »
0


The top version is more elegant, the bottom version more versatile. Both make sense as Action-Treasure,as the condition is different in each phase. I don't know for sure which I like more.

My intention is to make a gainer with the challenge of being played in the right place  in playing order. And also have an Action gainer in Action phase.

Hmm, then I think it would be better if it is not a Treasure. With the current version, you are likely playing it early on in the Buy phase when you have only a few Action cards. Later on, when you can play a lot of Action cards, you probably don't need the card anymore, or only for a one-time sacrifice to get a Province.

Edit: Just to be sure: I am talking about the version before, not about one of those posted in your last post.

I like the only action type version, but I think it would be uselles if Kingdom doesn't allow to play many actions per turn.

So, maybe this version would be the best one. You can use it in both phases but get different things in each case, making Action phase use needed if you want to gain Actions. If the Kingdom doesn't allow to play many Actions, I think also players wouldn't have too much interest in gaining many Actions, so these Kingdoms wouldn't be so good for its Action gaining anyway.



Could you maybe make one of those "Otherwise, " rather than specifying Action/Buy phase, just in case we ever get like, a new phase you can play actions or treasures in, or to make it play better in games with this and alion8me's "Lunar Ritual" or whatever?


Yes, I see now that Werewolf has the same "otherwise", probably for the same reason of possible future cards. Updated.

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