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Author Topic: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline  (Read 47819 times)

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Carline

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #50 on: December 06, 2020, 12:00:19 am »
0

Emissary
How can it be checked that the passed cards are all copies of the same card?
What happens, for example in a 4-player game, when you have only 2 Coppers? Can the player pass them?

Emissary could also use a clearer wording.


     

Emissary doesn't have any wording to ensure honesty for two reasons: It doesn't ask the player to prove they don't have enough of what they chose to pass to pass one to each opponent, and passed cards aren't public information, so it doesn't even ask the player to prove that they're passing copies of the same card. It also has the problem of not really functioning properly as an Attack card, as all Attack cards tell opponents to do something, whereas this doesn't. Another big problem it has is that it scales way too much with player count, and is too strong no matter what; with two players, it's a Woodcutter and an Ambassador at once (although it only returns one card instead of up to two), which is clearly WAAAAAYYYYY too strong for just a mere . With three players, it becomes an Ambassador that gives +1 Buy and a whopping ! I would just recommend scrapping this one, in all honesty.


The idea I had in mind works better with Coppers, so I'm trying a new version limited to Coppers. It's a kind of mix of Ambassador, Moneylender and Coppersmith. I think it's not so strong because the Coppers go to opponent's hands. As it will deal with Coppers, I think it's better without the Heirloom.



Edit: removed Attack type.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2020, 12:45:18 am by Carline »
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Carline

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #51 on: December 06, 2020, 01:20:58 am »
0




+2 Cards, trash a card from hand is too strong for even if it's limited to Coppers, IMO. This should probably cost , possibly even because of the gain-a-Copper-to-hand option.


Wanderer looks too strong for $2 because of the trashing option.


Changed to +1 Action, +. I hope this way I can keep at .

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Gubump

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #52 on: December 06, 2020, 02:34:51 am »
0

The idea I had in mind works better with Coppers, so I'm trying a new version limited to Coppers. It's a kind of mix of Ambassador, Moneylender and Coppersmith. I think it's not so strong because the Coppers go to opponent's hands. As it will deal with Coppers, I think it's better without the Heirloom.



Edit: removed Attack type.

It still doesn't handle the case where you don't have that many Coppers. It also doesn't fix the problem that it scales too harshly with the number of players and is too strong. Giving each opponent + is a small price to pay for giving them Coppers and getting a net + per opponent (although it's nowhere near as overpowered as it was before since you can no longer return Estates and it's now all-or-nothing), especially since it's essentially an unblockable attack now. If you insist that it's not too powerful and that the scaling isn't an issue, the "prove you don't have enough Coppers" issue can be fixed by adding "(or reveal you can't)" to the end of the first sentence.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2020, 02:37:59 am by Gubump »
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Carline

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #53 on: December 06, 2020, 11:32:27 am »
0

The idea I had in mind works better with Coppers, so I'm trying a new version limited to Coppers. It's a kind of mix of Ambassador, Moneylender and Coppersmith. I think it's not so strong because the Coppers go to opponent's hands. As it will deal with Coppers, I think it's better without the Heirloom.



Edit: removed Attack type.

It still doesn't handle the case where you don't have that many Coppers. It also doesn't fix the problem that it scales too harshly with the number of players and is too strong. Giving each opponent + is a small price to pay for giving them Coppers and getting a net + per opponent (although it's nowhere near as overpowered as it was before since you can no longer return Estates and it's now all-or-nothing), especially since it's essentially an unblockable attack now. If you insist that it's not too powerful and that the scaling isn't an issue, the "prove you don't have enough Coppers" issue can be fixed by adding "(or reveal you can't)" to the end of the first sentence.

You're completely right about these issues and it shows I'm still so far away from the best implementation of the idea. What I'm trying is a trashing junker that is also good for your turn but at the price to make better opponent's next turn.  This idea looks intersting to me and maybe could actually be intersting if I could find a well balanced way to do it. I tried to use pass mechanic, but the challenge with it is that you have to pass the same card to each opponent. i think if I give up this pass part and use something near Ambassador mechanic (return/they gain or trash/they gain) maybe I could find a good balance. Thank you again, I appreciate very much your help to me.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2020, 11:34:11 am by Carline »
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Timinou

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #54 on: December 06, 2020, 11:36:09 am »
0

The idea I had in mind works better with Coppers, so I'm trying a new version limited to Coppers. It's a kind of mix of Ambassador, Moneylender and Coppersmith. I think it's not so strong because the Coppers go to opponent's hands. As it will deal with Coppers, I think it's better without the Heirloom.



Edit: removed Attack type.

It still doesn't handle the case where you don't have that many Coppers. It also doesn't fix the problem that it scales too harshly with the number of players and is too strong. Giving each opponent + is a small price to pay for giving them Coppers and getting a net + per opponent (although it's nowhere near as overpowered as it was before since you can no longer return Estates and it's now all-or-nothing), especially since it's essentially an unblockable attack now. If you insist that it's not too powerful and that the scaling isn't an issue, the "prove you don't have enough Coppers" issue can be fixed by adding "(or reveal you can't)" to the end of the first sentence.

It's tricky to come up with an appropriate cost for all player counts.

I think this card loses its value quite quickly in games at higher player counts, especially given that plenty of other cards in the set give you +1 Buy.  In a 4-player game, you won't be able to play it more than 1-2 times unless you quickly gain more Coppers.  It might work if everyone is buying and playing Emissaries, and I suppose you could try to use your extra buys to fill your deck with Coppers and also combo this with Wanderer, but I'm not sure if that would be an effective strategy.  This would definitely need to be playtested.

I think the cost might be fine for a 3-player game as there would be more balance between the ability to trigger the Ambassador-effect and the payoff.

For a two-player game, I think the cost should be 3.  It's pseudo-trashing/junking ability is weaker than Ambassador's, and can only give you +2.  While you could argue that this is an improved version of Woodcutter and so should cost more, it becomes distinctly worse than Woodcutter once your Coppers run out.

This also becomes harder to play if you have a game with Heirlooms.  Carline, was that part of the intent in originally having an Heirloom for Emissary?
« Last Edit: December 06, 2020, 11:40:02 am by Timinou »
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Carline

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #55 on: December 06, 2020, 12:56:55 pm »
0

The idea I had in mind works better with Coppers, so I'm trying a new version limited to Coppers. It's a kind of mix of Ambassador, Moneylender and Coppersmith. I think it's not so strong because the Coppers go to opponent's hands. As it will deal with Coppers, I think it's better without the Heirloom.



Edit: removed Attack type.

It still doesn't handle the case where you don't have that many Coppers. It also doesn't fix the problem that it scales too harshly with the number of players and is too strong. Giving each opponent + is a small price to pay for giving them Coppers and getting a net + per opponent (although it's nowhere near as overpowered as it was before since you can no longer return Estates and it's now all-or-nothing), especially since it's essentially an unblockable attack now. If you insist that it's not too powerful and that the scaling isn't an issue, the "prove you don't have enough Coppers" issue can be fixed by adding "(or reveal you can't)" to the end of the first sentence.

It's tricky to come up with an appropriate cost for all player counts.

I think this card loses its value quite quickly in games at higher player counts, especially given that plenty of other cards in the set give you +1 Buy.  In a 4-player game, you won't be able to play it more than 1-2 times unless you quickly gain more Coppers.  It might work if everyone is buying and playing Emissaries, and I suppose you could try to use your extra buys to fill your deck with Coppers and also combo this with Wanderer, but I'm not sure if that would be an effective strategy.  This would definitely need to be playtested.

I think the cost might be fine for a 3-player game as there would be more balance between the ability to trigger the Ambassador-effect and the payoff.

For a two-player game, I think the cost should be 3.  It's pseudo-trashing/junking ability is weaker than Ambassador's, and can only give you +2.  While you could argue that this is an improved version of Woodcutter and so should cost more, it becomes distinctly worse than Woodcutter once your Coppers run out.

This also becomes harder to play if you have a game with Heirlooms.  Carline, was that part of the intent in originally having an Heirloom for Emissary?

Thank you very much, Timinou! i'm trying a new version (below), according to what I said in the previous post.

The Heirloom was intended to help sometimes to align in next hand the Emissary with the junk. It can be useful by itself sometimes, topdecking  a dead action, for example. So, in this new version, I think I could keep it.

Wording question: it's better to use "If you did,..." or "If you do,..."?


     
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Carline

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #56 on: December 06, 2020, 01:59:51 pm »
0

...does footbridge increase the cost of Coppers?

Good question. It's not intended. Maybe I have to change something on text to avoid this.
I'm not sure it's a problem; might be more of a feature for stuff like Enhance or Farmland, and ignorable the rest of the time.

i think I've found a better version (below). it avoids this Copper thing, which could be a bit confusing, and also doesn't need the "non-Victory" restriction. Thank you!


Without the victory card restriction, this can be used to pretty quickly empty the estate pile. Not the worst thing, but for , it could be used as "Gain Three estates"


In general, if you buy Footbridge more than once, you can trade one of your extra Buys for a free Estate, regardless of what you buy with the other Buys you have.

With any extra Buy source you can buy 2 Estates paying and two Buys, so it's only a Estate more spending a Buy more, which doesn't seems to me to be so strong.

The most radical movement with Footbridge in terms of pile-out Estates is: Pay and a Buy, gain 4 Estates ($1,5 for each VP, not so much different from buying Duchy, which is $1,66.. per VP). If you do it in your last turn, it could be a intersting way to gain some points and end the game. Note that you have to spend your regular Buy or a Buy from other source to do it. If it wouldn't be your last turn, these 4 VP you bought at could clog your deck a lot. 
« Last Edit: December 06, 2020, 02:13:15 pm by Carline »
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Carline

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #57 on: December 06, 2020, 05:46:45 pm »
+2

Money Trick
$1 (w/o “+”), then “+1 Buy”
Directly after you finish…; see Royal Carriage
I think this has to be a Reaction?
"…revealing it." No space before full stop; Exile.
At a first glance this seems to be too weak.

Yes, it has to be a Reaction, changed. I also made the wording fixes, thank you.

Changed Exile option to +, which makes it better, but in general, I don't think it's too weak. Discard it after an Action is the same as play a Peddler and you can discard it after a terminal. You can even manage to draw it again this turn. It also rewards you if already drew your deck, you can discard a Money Trick and draw the same copy, gaining + (exiling it),

The Exile feature is needed to avoid loops. I think is better for this option, it makes the Money Trick exiled be almost equivalent to a Stockpile.   

The +Buy feature is to make you want to play it sometimes instead of discarding.

« Last Edit: December 06, 2020, 06:03:51 pm by Carline »
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gambit05

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #58 on: December 06, 2020, 06:06:30 pm »
+1

Money Trick
$1 (w/o “+”), then “+1 Buy”
Directly after you finish…; see Royal Carriage
I think this has to be a Reaction?
"…revealing it." No space before full stop; Exile.
At a first glance this seems to be too weak.

Yes, it has to be a Reaction, changed. I also made the wording fixes, thank you.

Changed Exile option to +, which makes it better, but in general, I don't think it's too weak. Discard it after an Action is the same as play a Peddler and you can discard it after a terminal. You can even manage to draw it again this turn. It also rewards you if already drew your deck, you can discard it and draw the same copy, gaining + to exile it.

The Exile feature is needed to avoid loops. I think is better for this option, it makes the Money Trick exiled be almost equivalent to a Stockpile.   

The +Buy feature is to make you want to play it sometimes instead of discarding.



Nice. I see your expansion is making progress.
One nit pick: According to Tunnel Edit: Fool's Gold, you should swap the colors. Yellow on top, blue below. Also fits better with the texts parts, i.e.  Treasure (top) is played with yellow background, Reaction text below with blue background.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2020, 06:09:02 pm by gambit05 »
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Carline

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #59 on: December 06, 2020, 08:02:22 pm »
0



Split Pile 5/5

     

Fruits is too strong to cost just , IMO. I'd say that it wouldn't work at any price if it didn't have the Villager option (too strong for but too weak for ), but the Villager option makes it strong enough to cost .



Changed Fruits to the version below. Maybe now it's ok at .

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Carline

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #60 on: December 06, 2020, 08:40:52 pm »
0




This is basically just swingier, worse Donate. It's harder to afford due to needing to actually have its full cost when you buy it, and doesn't give you any choice in what to trash.


By now, about Birth of Venus. Maybe it could be improved, but I think it is not swingy, you always trash from all your deck, like Donate. The idea is to trash all your Coppers and Estates at once (and eventually also Shelters, Curses and Ruins), even if sometimes you would trash some $2 cost card along with them.

I know. The reason it's swingy is because the first player to be able to afford it completely snowballs, for the same reason Donate would be too swingy if it cost instead of . In fact, it originally cost coins, but Donald X changed it because of its swinginess. In other words, I was referring to the swinginess of being able to afford it, not the swinginess of its effect. And the reason I called it a worse Donate is twofold: Donate is easier to afford due to having a debt-cost, and Birth of Venus is strictly worse than Donate due to Donate giving more choice in what you trash, including being able to have the exact same effect as BoV.




Thank you for clarifying. it would be good at $5, a cost that is easier to afford?

I would honestly just scrap it. It's too similar to Donate for my tastes.


Changed it to debt cost. Also make it Exiling instead of trashing, which is better for the Estates and eventual cost cards. This feature also make it more different from Donate.


« Last Edit: December 06, 2020, 08:42:55 pm by Carline »
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Carline

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #61 on: December 06, 2020, 09:14:21 pm »
0


Blessing
Trash (1st time only)

Blessed Gems
…you’ve trashed…



     

Blessing is not just better than Feast, but it completely outclasses it, at the same price. And like Great Hall, Feast was removed for being boring, not weak. Blessing is almost certainly strong enough to cost .


You're right. Changed it to and made it a vanishing Chapel.

     
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Carline

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #62 on: December 06, 2020, 10:16:57 pm »
0

Added this event. It can change first turns, I hope in intersting ways.



Edit:updated to:


« Last Edit: December 07, 2020, 10:57:05 am by Carline »
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Carline

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #63 on: December 06, 2020, 10:53:55 pm »
0


Added this card, from present Weekly Contest.

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Carline

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #64 on: December 07, 2020, 12:02:18 am »
0




I actually think this is good enough to cost , or at least definitely too strong for . Let's compare this to Walled Village (a promo card which costs ):
If you don't use both of Walled Village's actions, then you get to topdeck Walled Village so you can get another chance to use it next turn. However, "using both of Walled Village's actions" is determined by the number of cards you have in play, so Walled Village's left-over actions can still get wasted. +1 Villager, however, gives you the +1 Action on-command and cannot be wasted, and you could even naturally draw the same copy of Workers two turns in a row to get two un-wastable actions. Thus Workers is actually extremely close to strictly better than Walled Village (there are edge cases involving Throne Room variants and Ways), and should therefore cost more.


You're right about this. However, if it would cost , I think it could be a bit unintersting to buy if there are cheaper Villages.

So, I changed the + Card to + . This way I think it can cost .


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gambit05

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #65 on: December 07, 2020, 02:43:18 am »
0

Added this event. It can change first turns, I hope in intersting ways.



I am not sure, but my understanding of the wording is that you can gain any Action card from the Supply taking Debt instead of its $ cost. Is that correct? That seems to be too strong. What about Potion cost cards, e.g. can a player gain a Possession for 6 Debt, ignoring the Potion cost?
Despite that, gaining cards from the Supply is the default and does not have to be specified, i.e. you can delete "from the Supply".
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Carline

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #66 on: December 07, 2020, 09:44:33 am »
+1

Added this event. It can change first turns, I hope in intersting ways.



I am not sure, but my understanding of the wording is that you can gain any Action card from the Supply taking Debt instead of its $ cost. Is that correct? That seems to be too strong. What about Potion cost cards, e.g. can a player gain a Possession for 6 Debt, ignoring the Potion cost?
Despite that, gaining cards from the Supply is the default and does not have to be specified, i.e. you can delete "from the Supply".


I forgot completely that exists cards with Potion costs! And I missed a kind of Alms clause I want to include. I wiil review it, thank you.

Edit: Updated the event. The idea is to pay an Action card with debt, but the event costs 1 debt itself, so as final result the card costs you $1 more. Is it still too strong? Should I change the event cost to 2 debt Tokens?


« Last Edit: December 07, 2020, 11:10:41 am by Carline »
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LittleFish

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #67 on: December 07, 2020, 11:38:50 am »
0

Added this event. It can change first turns, I hope in intersting ways.



I am not sure, but my understanding of the wording is that you can gain any Action card from the Supply taking Debt instead of its $ cost. Is that correct? That seems to be too strong. What about Potion cost cards, e.g. can a player gain a Possession for 6 Debt, ignoring the Potion cost?
Despite that, gaining cards from the Supply is the default and does not have to be specified, i.e. you can delete "from the Supply".


I forgot completely that exists cards with Potion costs! And I missed a kind of Alms clause I want to include. I wiil review it, thank you.

Edit: Updated the event. The idea is to pay an Action card with debt, but the event costs 1 debt itself, so as final result the card costs you $1 more. Is it still too strong? Should I change the event cost to 2 debt Tokens?


the current +buy is almost useless, as unless you have a supply of action , you can't play treasures to pay off the debt, leaving you unable to buy a second thing.
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Carline

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #68 on: December 07, 2020, 11:54:07 am »
0

Added this event. It can change first turns, I hope in intersting ways.



I am not sure, but my understanding of the wording is that you can gain any Action card from the Supply taking Debt instead of its $ cost. Is that correct? That seems to be too strong. What about Potion cost cards, e.g. can a player gain a Possession for 6 Debt, ignoring the Potion cost?
Despite that, gaining cards from the Supply is the default and does not have to be specified, i.e. you can delete "from the Supply".


I forgot completely that exists cards with Potion costs! And I missed a kind of Alms clause I want to include. I wiil review it, thank you.

Edit: Updated the event. The idea is to pay an Action card with debt, but the event costs 1 debt itself, so as final result the card costs you $1 more. Is it still too strong? Should I change the event cost to 2 debt Tokens?


the current +buy is almost useless, as unless you have a supply of action , you can't play treasures to pay off the debt, leaving you unable to buy a second thing.

I think the + Buy is needed to buy the next action with debt, as you spent your regular Buy to buy Lending. 
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LittleFish

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #69 on: December 07, 2020, 01:20:23 pm »
0

Added this event. It can change first turns, I hope in intersting ways.



I am not sure, but my understanding of the wording is that you can gain any Action card from the Supply taking Debt instead of its $ cost. Is that correct? That seems to be too strong. What about Potion cost cards, e.g. can a player gain a Possession for 6 Debt, ignoring the Potion cost?
Despite that, gaining cards from the Supply is the default and does not have to be specified, i.e. you can delete "from the Supply".


I forgot completely that exists cards with Potion costs! And I missed a kind of Alms clause I want to include. I wiil review it, thank you.

Edit: Updated the event. The idea is to pay an Action card with debt, but the event costs 1 debt itself, so as final result the card costs you $1 more. Is it still too strong? Should I change the event cost to 2 debt Tokens?


the current +buy is almost useless, as unless you have a supply of action , you can't play treasures to pay off the debt, leaving you unable to buy a second thing.

I think the + Buy is needed to buy the next action with debt, as you spent your regular Buy to buy Lending.
I didn't look close enough at the new card-shaped thing. You can't buy something with the debt though, so on the first turn, you wouldn't be able to use this
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GendoIkari

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #70 on: December 07, 2020, 03:00:20 pm »
0

Note that I haven't read the other replies yet; so don't know if some of this has already been covered.

As a whole set, I feel like there's too many different things. It combines a lot of things from Nocturne as well as Menagerie, but also some Guilds and Renaissance mechanics. Between Overpay, Heirlooms,  Night, Ways, Horses, Villagers, Coffers, VP Tokens, Exile, Events, Split Piles, Reserves, Debt, Projects, Hexes, Landmarks, Pile Tokens, and Durations (to be fair it seems Durations are now a core mechanic)... it just seems like way too many mechanics to fit into one set. Looks like 35 separate Kingdom Piles? That's a lot.

Most of the specific cards seem neat and fine. Seems like a lot of them provide difficult choices about how many to buy, etc.

Wanderer might be simpler though very slightly weaker if it were "choose one" with both options mandatory. It's a bit weird that now it gives you the choice to effectively just trash a Copper from the supply.

Money Trick seems a bit complicated in the reaction wording. I wonder if the "if it's a Money Trick" part is even needed.... was that added just to prevent an infinite loop with discarding a Money Trick into an empty deck? Either way this might be as strong as Peddler/Poacher; which would make it too cheap.

Amazon - I'm not sure if "gain a Horse to your Hand" is significantly different enough from "+2 cards"... of course when combined with things like Horse Lady, it is, and maybe that was the intent. I'm also not sure about Overpay on a card... the official Overpay cards don't exceed . At , you likely aren't going to be using the Overpay very often at all; though it is a nice bonus when you hit .

Fruit Mix wording; Donald is planning to update Treasures to not longer use "When you play this", and you don't have that on Fruits either. And instead of "worth", it should just be "+"l; like an action would be. I believe treasures like Bank will be updated to do that as well.

Bride Wait might be the Feast we should have had all along.

Calmness is a bit weird; it's obvious what the +1 Card Token does, but "whenever you want" is weird timing. It's also rare that you are going to hold onto it very long; so maybe instead during cleanup draw 1 extra card for your next turn.

Birth of Venus might be too similar to Donate.

Way of the Mermaid is strictly better than Pig; not that there are necessarily rules about avoiding strictly better ways, but it makes sense to try and do so.

Way of the Sphinx is probably too good (and strictly better than Pig); Wishing Well already exists as a card, this just makes any action you want into a Wishing Well.

I don't understand Harpy, Medusa, and She-Wolf... why have a separate card? Why not just have the text on the Way? It would be like if Way of the Sphinx said "Play a Wishing Well, leaving it there". *EDIT* Ah, I see from the other comments how it's different because you are playing an Attack Card; which allows for reactions.

Phoenix might be too strong with some one-shots like Pillage.

Land Grant is very cool; I like it a lot. Don't have an opinion about the balance of the Landmarks, and the cost might be too high, but it's a great idea.

Lots of cards I didn't mention; for the most part even though I can understand them easily, I can't tell if they are balanced for their cost. Which is a good thing I think; just means they need playtesting to determine if they're good.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2020, 03:15:47 pm by GendoIkari »
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Carline

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #71 on: December 08, 2020, 01:54:54 am »
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Added this event. It can change first turns, I hope in intersting ways.



I am not sure, but my understanding of the wording is that you can gain any Action card from the Supply taking Debt instead of its $ cost. Is that correct? That seems to be too strong. What about Potion cost cards, e.g. can a player gain a Possession for 6 Debt, ignoring the Potion cost?
Despite that, gaining cards from the Supply is the default and does not have to be specified, i.e. you can delete "from the Supply".


I forgot completely that exists cards with Potion costs! And I missed a kind of Alms clause I want to include. I wiil review it, thank you.

Edit: Updated the event. The idea is to pay an Action card with debt, but the event costs 1 debt itself, so as final result the card costs you $1 more. Is it still too strong? Should I change the event cost to 2 debt Tokens?


the current +buy is almost useless, as unless you have a supply of action , you can't play treasures to pay off the debt, leaving you unable to buy a second thing.

I think the + Buy is needed to buy the next action with debt, as you spent your regular Buy to buy Lending.
I didn't look close enough at the new card-shaped thing. You can't buy something with the debt though, so on the first turn, you wouldn't be able to use this

Yes, I didn't consider this, thank you. I think this new version would work.

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gambit05

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #72 on: December 08, 2020, 02:17:20 am »
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Yes, I didn't consider this, thank you. I think this new version would work.



I haven't followed or read the discussion that lead to this version, but this is confusing. It is not clear for what you pay, i.e. for buying a card is missing.
I also don't think that the combination of a $0 cost Event with +1 Buy and without "Once per turn" works well under certain circumstances, e.g. with cost reduction (e.g. 2 x Bridge), you can empty all piles that cost $2 or less. On the other side of the cost spectrum, is your intention that also very expensive Action cards (King's Court, Prince etc.) can be bought?
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Carline

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #73 on: December 08, 2020, 02:46:26 am »
+1

I also don't think that the combination of a $0 cost Event with +1 Buy and without "Once per turn" works well under certain circumstances, e.g. with cost reduction (e.g. 2 x Bridge), you can empty all piles that cost $2 or less.

It doesn't give you extra Buys, only replaces the Buy you spent to buy it.

Quote
]I haven't followed or read the discussion that lead to this version, but this is confusing. It is not clear for what you pay, i.e. for buying a card is missing.

Yes, I will fix the wording.

Quote
On the other side of the cost spectrum, is your intention that also very expensive Action cards (King's Court, Prince etc.) can be bought?

I think it's Ok to buy expensive actions with it, you will pay for them anyway and with additional cost. With Transport, you can get any of these actions in turn 2, paying and . And topdecked.

Edited: Fixed the wording. i hope now it's ok.


« Last Edit: December 08, 2020, 03:26:27 am by Carline »
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gambit05

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #74 on: December 08, 2020, 04:06:27 am »
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I also don't think that the combination of a $0 cost Event with +1 Buy and without "Once per turn" works well under certain circumstances, e.g. with cost reduction (e.g. 2 x Bridge), you can empty all piles that cost $2 or less.

It doesn't give you extra Buys, only replaces the Buy you spent to buy it.

Quote
]I haven't followed or read the discussion that lead to this version, but this is confusing. It is not clear for what you pay, i.e. for buying a card is missing.

Yes, I will fix the wording.

Quote
On the other side of the cost spectrum, is your intention that also very expensive Action cards (King's Court, Prince etc.) can be bought?

I think it's Ok to buy expensive actions with it, you will pay for them anyway and with additional cost. With Transport, you can get any of these actions in turn 2, paying and . And topdecked.

Edited: Fixed the wording. i hope now it's ok.



I think you are correct about the "endless" buying power. It looks confusing, but it seems to work the way you've intended.
There is something about the wording I still don't like, but right now I can't get a grip on it. I have to think about it in more depths. Just one little detail: "Treasures" with an uppercase T.

Edit: When I wrote the text above, I stumbled a bit about the "you may pay their cost in $", as this on its own suggests that you just do what you usually do, i.e. paying $ with $. Of course the full sentence says otherwise, but my brain first read it this way and was confused. Maybe slightly better: ...you may, instead of paying their $ cost, take the same amount of Debt plus 1 Debt.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2020, 05:24:52 am by gambit05 »
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