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Author Topic: Inventor wording  (Read 408 times)

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BBobb

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Inventor wording
« on: November 09, 2020, 01:05:27 pm »
+1

This has probably already been answered somewhere, but I am going to ask anyway. Why wasn't Inventor worded as
Gain a card costing up to $3.
______________________________________________________________
While this is in play, cards cost $1 less

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Hand - King's Court, Ruined Village, Estate, Copper, Possession
Turn -
BBobb plays King's Court
… and plays a Ruined Village.
… … getting +1 Action
… and plays the Ruined Village again.
… … getting +1 Action
… and plays the Ruined village a third time.
… … getting +1 Action.
BBobb plays a Copper.
BBobb buys a Poor House.
(BBobb draws: 2 King's Courts and 3 Possessions)
BBobb=GOD

LastFootnote

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Re: Inventor wording
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2020, 01:21:44 pm »
+2

Two reasons. First, Donald X. is now avoiding "while this is in play" wherever possible. And unfortunately, that's everywhere! These days, if a card won't work without "while this is in play", that card probably won't get to exist. Luckily I don't think that's yet caused a card to be cut during testing, but I could be misremembering. Anyway that's why all recent effects like this have been "this turn".

Second, in the case of Inventor (and Priest), I think the published wording is probably clearer. I think your suggested wording would send most players to the rulebook, wondering whether the cost reduction applied to the gain on the card. I get that it's elegant, but elegance does not always equate to clarity.
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scolapasta

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Re: Inventor wording
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2020, 01:22:26 pm »
0

This has probably already been answered somewhere, but I am going to ask anyway. Why wasn't Inventor worded as
Gain a card costing up to $3.
______________________________________________________________
While this is in play, cards cost $1 less

For one thing, it can't be Throne Roomed that way (at least not the cost reduction part).
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BBobb

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Re: Inventor wording
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2020, 01:49:02 pm »
0

This has probably already been answered somewhere, but I am going to ask anyway. Why wasn't Inventor worded as
Gain a card costing up to $3.
______________________________________________________________
While this is in play, cards cost $1 less

For one thing, it can't be Throne Roomed that way (at least not the cost reduction part).

I know that it can't be throned this way, but in What Donald X. might do with a time machine he said "I would consider whether I like Bridge as is, in its Throne-able glory, or if I would rather phrase them the way I think such stuff in general should be phrased, like Highway etc." so I would have assumed that he would have made this non-throne-able also.
Logged
Hand - King's Court, Ruined Village, Estate, Copper, Possession
Turn -
BBobb plays King's Court
… and plays a Ruined Village.
… … getting +1 Action
… and plays the Ruined Village again.
… … getting +1 Action
… and plays the Ruined village a third time.
… … getting +1 Action.
BBobb plays a Copper.
BBobb buys a Poor House.
(BBobb draws: 2 King's Courts and 3 Possessions)
BBobb=GOD

BBobb

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Re: Inventor wording
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2020, 01:51:00 pm »
0

Two reasons. First, Donald X. is now avoiding "while this is in play" wherever possible. And unfortunately, that's everywhere! These days, if a card won't work without "while this is in play", that card probably won't get to exist. Luckily I don't think that's yet caused a card to be cut during testing, but I could be misremembering. Anyway that's why all recent effects like this have been "this turn".

Second, in the case of Inventor (and Priest), I think the published wording is probably clearer. I think your suggested wording would send most players to the rulebook, wondering whether the cost reduction applied to the gain on the card. I get that it's elegant, but elegance does not always equate to clarity.

I definitely agree with you here. I know before I found the forum and dominionstrategy that I would have checked the rules. On the other hand, I do not think that it would cause much confusion if it was put in the FAQ inside the rulebooks. Also, why is Donald X. trying to avoid "while this is in play." I find that phrase very self explanatory and not confusing
« Last Edit: November 09, 2020, 01:53:41 pm by BBobb »
Logged
Hand - King's Court, Ruined Village, Estate, Copper, Possession
Turn -
BBobb plays King's Court
… and plays a Ruined Village.
… … getting +1 Action
… and plays the Ruined Village again.
… … getting +1 Action
… and plays the Ruined village a third time.
… … getting +1 Action.
BBobb plays a Copper.
BBobb buys a Poor House.
(BBobb draws: 2 King's Courts and 3 Possessions)
BBobb=GOD

GendoIkari

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Re: Inventor wording
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2020, 02:36:35 pm »
0

Two reasons. First, Donald X. is now avoiding "while this is in play" wherever possible. And unfortunately, that's everywhere! These days, if a card won't work without "while this is in play", that card probably won't get to exist. Luckily I don't think that's yet caused a card to be cut during testing, but I could be misremembering. Anyway that's why all recent effects like this have been "this turn".

Second, in the case of Inventor (and Priest), I think the published wording is probably clearer. I think your suggested wording would send most players to the rulebook, wondering whether the cost reduction applied to the gain on the card. I get that it's elegant, but elegance does not always equate to clarity.

I definitely agree with you here. I know before I found the forum and dominionstrategy that I would have checked the rules. On the other hand, I do not think that it would cause much confusion if it was put in the FAQ inside the rulebooks. Also, why is Donald X. trying to avoid "while this is in play." I find that phrase very self explanatory and not confusing

While I think it's very clear and not confusing as well; we have seen many questions from newer players asking about why they didn't get 2 tokens when buying a card after Throning a Goons, for example.
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Donald X.

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Re: Inventor wording
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2020, 03:00:00 pm »
+5

I know that it can't be throned this way, but in What Donald X. might do with a time machine he said "I would consider whether I like Bridge as is, in its Throne-able glory, or if I would rather phrase them the way I think such stuff in general should be phrased, like Highway etc." so I would have assumed that he would have made this non-throne-able also.
That was just a phase. First I phrased things like "this turn," then I thought "no it should be while-in-play," then I worked out that actually I preferred "this turn."
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silverspawn

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Re: Inventor wording
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2020, 03:16:57 pm »
+1

I think it's a safe bet that the cards that have a horizontal line with in-play effects are more confusing now than they used to be because of ways. You can play travelers as way of anything (other than horse) and exchange them, and it's often really good. Ditto with Highway.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Inventor wording
« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2020, 04:05:07 pm »
+2

Even I was surprised to learn, way back in the day when Alchemy was new, that throning an Herbalist didn’t let you topdeck two Treasures in Clean-up.
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BBobb

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Re: Inventor wording
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2020, 02:04:07 am »
0

Just wondering, why has Donald X. stopped using the "while this is in play" wording. Is it because of the new ways that emulators work (and all of the ways).
Logged
Hand - King's Court, Ruined Village, Estate, Copper, Possession
Turn -
BBobb plays King's Court
… and plays a Ruined Village.
… … getting +1 Action
… and plays the Ruined Village again.
… … getting +1 Action
… and plays the Ruined village a third time.
… … getting +1 Action.
BBobb plays a Copper.
BBobb buys a Poor House.
(BBobb draws: 2 King's Courts and 3 Possessions)
BBobb=GOD

RoundTower

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Re: Inventor wording
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2020, 12:52:59 pm »
+1

I think it's a safe bet that the cards that have a horizontal line with in-play effects are more confusing now than they used to be because of ways. You can play travelers as way of anything (other than horse) and exchange them, and it's often really good. Ditto with Highway.

I don't think travellers work with Butterfly either. Or Turtle? And you don't get the real benefit from Way of the Rat with anything but the starting travellers, though you might still want to use it with say Treasure Hunter or if you have some draw-to-X.
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Donald X.

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Re: Inventor wording
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2020, 02:12:46 pm »
+4

Just wondering, why has Donald X. stopped using the "while this is in play" wording. Is it because of the new ways that emulators work (and all of the ways).
No, I didn't know those were coming.

I switched from "this turn" to "while this is in play" because "while this is in play" has better tracking; you e.g. Procession a Highway and the card no longer in play no longer does anything, hooray. I switched back to "this turn" because it turned out people get more confused by "while this is in play."
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