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Author Topic: M133 - FDS on a Plane Mafia - Game Over! Town Wins Flawlessly!  (Read 60772 times)

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WestCoastDidds

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Re: M133 - FDS on a Plane Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #350 on: December 02, 2020, 05:45:11 pm »

Hey friends- I have been staring at a screen all day and the letters are turning to mush and my head hurts and maybe I am hungry, I don't know.  We are looking for a new colleague and there were 145 applications and I am FULL OF RAGE that doctoral programs keep getting bigger and turning out more people but there are not and will never be enough jobs for everyone. ARGHHHHH

So, yeah.

My one thought after reading quickly in regard to Space's who may have bussed who post, is that with the folks we are talking about who are likely scum there was almost certainly some early bussing of each other going on because that is how that subset of people tend to play.  I am always too nervous to bus anyone (except that one time pps told me that I should in the daychat...which ended in disaster and means I won't do that again!), but I think most other people think its the way to do.

Anyway, more thoughts when my eyes work, and I am maybe not hungry, and not so full of rage.
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classic Diddsian meddling
I never got to read what Didds said, but whatever she's saying, she's right.

Dylan32

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Re: M133 - FDS on a Plane Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #351 on: December 02, 2020, 06:17:29 pm »

Honestly, I don't remember LL jumping this hard on an omgus vote before. Like gkrieg pointed out, calling a case weak is different than saying the person making the case is scummy.

There goes my scum!faust theory

Phone posting atm but I will say that I would be shocked if Galz's partners weren't both bussing

What makes you say they would both be bussing? Most of the votes on his wagon were from EAL people, with some other stuff in there. It was also an exile on the day of the deadline, which I think scum still think they can get the exile to go a different day, which would make them less likely to bus.

You're missing some added context that in Galz's last couple games, his activity level has been a matter of discussion and concern to the point that last game it had been discussed whether they were inactive enough to warrant a lurker exile D1. The fact that this game started the same way gives a bit more cover for scum to go ahead and join that specific bus in hopes of grabbing the towncred since there would have been an argument to be made that it was a pro-town exile regardless of flip.

Oddly enough, I think of the people on wagon, mcmc is the one I feel least inclined to exile right now. His reasons (of course given after the fact, so grain of salt) are more substantial than anything anyone else said in the course of the wagon building.  EFHW's point about going from "I know you're scum" to using "if" again later is one of those things that might seem bad on the surface, but if playing with MiX has taught me anything, it's that absolute statements don't always mean the person is absolutely sure and unable to change their mind. Also, the confident statement was when he voted, and the uncertainty was after the post-hammer cop claim, which I would say gives mcmc reason enough to question that read while waiting for the flip.

Vote: LaLight

Just iso'd LL and read through Galz's stream of posts when he came back and said a lot. Between the two I think there's a decent chance LL is scum here.

Galz claimed 1 scum in {faust, space}, probably one in {LL, MiX}, and one in the rest. Since galz wasn't able to talk to his partners to plan the nk, I doubt they would have paid much attention to his pairings when thinking about the nk, so I don't think this says anything about Space for sure, but I don't think galz leaves both partners out of his scum-read pairings, so I feel pretty confident there's at least 1 in {space, LL, MiX}.

holy ppe 8 batman

this is some grasping-at-straws theory, looking like you need something to form a scumread. I mean there's so much wifom in Galzria's list, that it can be entirely disregarded. vote: Dylan32

still, actions of some people (mcmc and dylan) are for me more telling and more scummy than relying on trying to decode Galzria's post. I agree with Space that MiX defending Galzria is too bold of a move, MiX is a bit more rational than that, I believe. That leaves Space in the roster of people mentioned by Galz, and although I suspect them as well, their actions on D1 seem less scummy than convenient "rusty" mcmc hammer if that makes sense.

I think I might be slightly misreading your first sentence of the second post. In the first post's bolded sentence and subsequent vote, you basically say I'm scummy for trying to decode Galzria's post and making a little case out of it. In the second, you say mcmc and myself did things that are more scummy than trying to decode Galzria's post, which is what you voted for me for doing a few posts earlier.

So did you mean to say you think there were other scummy things beyond that which justify your vote more than just the thing you used as a basis for the vote, or that trying to decode Galzria's post isn't scummy compared to other things, or what?
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Dylan32

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Re: M133 - FDS on a Plane Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #352 on: December 02, 2020, 06:40:50 pm »

Also, I don't think I've seen LL respond like this to a single vote on him. Like not a wagon, but a single vote. I'm not ready to say that's scummy in and of itself, but it isn't hard to imagine coming back after a long gap, drawing scum in game 1, and feeling a little nervous and like you need to deflect and stay out of pressure.
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SpaceAnemone

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Re: M133 - FDS on a Plane Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #353 on: December 02, 2020, 06:51:09 pm »

I'm kinda confused on what you're trying to say at the last 2 paragraphs. Is this like a mini-VCA, or are the votes that useless that this is the complete VCA?

Ah, let's try to rephrase this!

I looked at the complete VCA from the whole of D1, coloured such that Raptor, fasut, and I were green, Galz was read, and everyone else was coloured as unflipped. Then I looked for all instances of unflipped-on-unflipped voting, and there are very few.

#42: Mix votes mcmc
#79: Dylan votes LL
#82: EFHW votes mcmc
#188: ADK votes mcmc
#203: Mix votes LL (then moves back to mcmc at #220).

Those are, from my point of view, the only possible off-wagon busses by the scumteam, because the rest of the time, either someone's voting for known town, or they're a known town voting for someone else. Probably the fact I had a wagon, and voted for three different people, makes it more obvious to me than to most others, but I find it interesting, and so it's worth putting out there for future consideration later in the game. The rest of town can't really trust this till I show up as conf!green.

The interesting thing is that either one of those five pairs of people is the rest of the scumteam, or (probably more likely) the scumteam decided not to bus at all, except possibly on Galz in the end.

If the rest of the scumteam is in one of those pairs, then there's a definite scum in {mcmc,LL}. If instead the scumteam were really showing a pattern of not bussing at all, I'd feel more townie on the people who started the two Galz wagons, who were ADK and then Didds. So two very different conclusions we can't do anything much with at the moment, but which might come in useful further down the line.

I think you're completely forgetting about Didds' vote. What do you think of her?

What makes you think I'm forgetting?

1. I commented specifically that I was looking at unflipped-on-unflipped voting (Didds only ever voted Galz, who flipped).

2. I addressed the point that people being early voters on Galz (naming Didds and ADK) could look townier if this turns out to be evidence of a non-bussing strategy on behalf of scum.
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Re: M133 - FDS on a Plane Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #354 on: December 02, 2020, 06:52:41 pm »

I also think it is unlikely that partners bussed galz, because the main reason you do that as scum is if you get a bunch of town cred for bussing your partner D1, and the way it happened, with the reasons it happened do not point to anyone getting a bunch of town cred for exiling galz.

Am I wrong in thinking that some people are looking at mcmc in a townier light because of the hammer? I know I'm feeling a bit suspicious of him, and I'm pretty sure it was EFHW who expressed something similar, but I thought there are others who feel he's townie after that.
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SpaceAnemone

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Re: M133 - FDS on a Plane Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #355 on: December 02, 2020, 06:54:40 pm »

gkrieg: made a couple of posts after the X-1, ending 2 hours before Galz returned. Gkrieg didn't return until D2.

I feel like this is a little misleading, as my posts after my X-1 vote were just to say that it was X-1. I also stated that I was not going to return, so if you are looking at people being stuck on their partner, it can't be me.

Nope, Dylan's original post was asking about people who were online but maybe hadn't really had time to respond to Galz's big wall of posts before mcmc's hammer, so I was saying that you don't fall into that category because you definitively weren't around. I had thought that more people than just me and EFHW had managed to interject something into that stream, but it turns out that most of the other posting started with the hammer from mcmc, not before it.
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Re: M133 - FDS on a Plane Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #356 on: December 02, 2020, 06:58:41 pm »

Space, do you have your vca raw data readily available? Would you share?

Here's a code box with the complete D1 and partial D2 votes, as my counter records them.
Disclaimer: I haven't done a lot of comparing to mod counts, so use at your own risk :-)

Code: [Select]
VOTING FOR DAY 1

#31
Xxraptorslayer96 (1): Galzria
Not Voting (11): A Drowned Kernel, Dylan32, SpaceAnemone, MiX, WestCoastDidds, EFHW, Xxraptorslayer96, faust, LaLight, mcmcsalot, gkrieg13

#32
Xxraptorslayer96 (1): Galzria
gkrieg13 (1): SpaceAnemone
Not Voting (10): A Drowned Kernel, Dylan32, MiX, WestCoastDidds, EFHW, Xxraptorslayer96, faust, LaLight, mcmcsalot, gkrieg13

#33
Xxraptorslayer96 (1): Galzria
gkrieg13 (1): SpaceAnemone
Galzria (1): A Drowned Kernel
Not Voting (9): Dylan32, MiX, WestCoastDidds, EFHW, Xxraptorslayer96, faust, LaLight, mcmcsalot, gkrieg13

#35
Xxraptorslayer96 (1): Galzria
gkrieg13 (1): SpaceAnemone
Galzria (2): A Drowned Kernel, Xxraptorslayer96
Not Voting (8): Dylan32, MiX, WestCoastDidds, EFHW, faust, LaLight, mcmcsalot, gkrieg13

#36
Xxraptorslayer96 (1): Galzria
gkrieg13 (1): SpaceAnemone
Galzria (2): A Drowned Kernel, Xxraptorslayer96
faust (1): LaLight
Not Voting (7): Dylan32, MiX, WestCoastDidds, EFHW, faust, mcmcsalot, gkrieg13

#40
Xxraptorslayer96 (1): Galzria
gkrieg13 (1): SpaceAnemone
Galzria (3): A Drowned Kernel, Xxraptorslayer96, faust
faust (1): LaLight
Not Voting (6): Dylan32, MiX, WestCoastDidds, EFHW, mcmcsalot, gkrieg13

#42
Xxraptorslayer96 (1): Galzria
gkrieg13 (1): SpaceAnemone
Galzria (3): A Drowned Kernel, Xxraptorslayer96, faust
faust (1): LaLight
mcmcsalot (1): MiX
Not Voting (5): Dylan32, WestCoastDidds, EFHW, mcmcsalot, gkrieg13

#44
Xxraptorslayer96 (1): Galzria
gkrieg13 (1): SpaceAnemone
Galzria (3): A Drowned Kernel, Xxraptorslayer96, faust
faust (1): LaLight
mcmcsalot (1): MiX
SpaceAnemone (1): gkrieg13
Not Voting (4): Dylan32, WestCoastDidds, EFHW, mcmcsalot

#57
Xxraptorslayer96 (1): Galzria
gkrieg13 (1): SpaceAnemone
Galzria (3): A Drowned Kernel, Xxraptorslayer96, faust
faust (2): LaLight, gkrieg13
mcmcsalot (1): MiX
Not Voting (4): Dylan32, WestCoastDidds, EFHW, mcmcsalot

#70
Xxraptorslayer96 (1): Galzria
gkrieg13 (1): SpaceAnemone
Galzria (3): A Drowned Kernel, Xxraptorslayer96, faust
mcmcsalot (1): MiX
faust (1): gkrieg13
SpaceAnemone (1): LaLight
Not Voting (4): Dylan32, WestCoastDidds, EFHW, mcmcsalot

#72
Xxraptorslayer96 (1): Galzria
Galzria (3): A Drowned Kernel, Xxraptorslayer96, faust
mcmcsalot (1): MiX
faust (1): gkrieg13
SpaceAnemone (1): LaLight
LaLight (1): SpaceAnemone
Not Voting (4): Dylan32, WestCoastDidds, EFHW, mcmcsalot

#74
Xxraptorslayer96 (1): Galzria
Galzria (3): A Drowned Kernel, Xxraptorslayer96, faust
mcmcsalot (1): MiX
faust (2): gkrieg13, mcmcsalot
SpaceAnemone (1): LaLight
LaLight (1): SpaceAnemone
Not Voting (3): Dylan32, WestCoastDidds, EFHW

#79
Xxraptorslayer96 (1): Galzria
Galzria (3): A Drowned Kernel, Xxraptorslayer96, faust
mcmcsalot (1): MiX
faust (2): gkrieg13, mcmcsalot
SpaceAnemone (1): LaLight
LaLight (2): SpaceAnemone, Dylan32
Not Voting (2): WestCoastDidds, EFHW

#82
Xxraptorslayer96 (1): Galzria
Galzria (3): A Drowned Kernel, Xxraptorslayer96, faust
mcmcsalot (2): MiX, EFHW
faust (2): gkrieg13, mcmcsalot
SpaceAnemone (1): LaLight
LaLight (2): SpaceAnemone, Dylan32
Not Voting (1): WestCoastDidds

#101
Xxraptorslayer96 (1): Galzria
Galzria (2): A Drowned Kernel, Xxraptorslayer96
mcmcsalot (2): MiX, EFHW
faust (2): gkrieg13, mcmcsalot
SpaceAnemone (1): LaLight
LaLight (2): SpaceAnemone, Dylan32
gkrieg13 (1): faust
Not Voting (1): WestCoastDidds

#116
Xxraptorslayer96 (1): Galzria
Galzria (2): A Drowned Kernel, Xxraptorslayer96
mcmcsalot (2): MiX, EFHW
faust (2): gkrieg13, mcmcsalot
SpaceAnemone (1): LaLight
LaLight (1): Dylan32
gkrieg13 (1): faust
WestCoastDidds (1): SpaceAnemone
Not Voting (1): WestCoastDidds

#123
Xxraptorslayer96 (1): Galzria
Galzria (1): A Drowned Kernel
mcmcsalot (2): MiX, EFHW
faust (2): gkrieg13, mcmcsalot
SpaceAnemone (2): LaLight, Xxraptorslayer96
LaLight (1): Dylan32
gkrieg13 (1): faust
WestCoastDidds (1): SpaceAnemone
Not Voting (1): WestCoastDidds

#126
Xxraptorslayer96 (1): Galzria
Galzria (1): A Drowned Kernel
mcmcsalot (2): MiX, EFHW
faust (2): gkrieg13, mcmcsalot
SpaceAnemone (3): LaLight, Xxraptorslayer96, faust
LaLight (1): Dylan32
WestCoastDidds (1): SpaceAnemone
Not Voting (1): WestCoastDidds

#131
Xxraptorslayer96 (1): Galzria
Galzria (1): A Drowned Kernel
mcmcsalot (2): MiX, EFHW
faust (1): gkrieg13
SpaceAnemone (4): LaLight, Xxraptorslayer96, faust, mcmcsalot
LaLight (1): Dylan32
WestCoastDidds (1): SpaceAnemone
Not Voting (1): WestCoastDidds

#149
Galzria (1): A Drowned Kernel
mcmcsalot (2): MiX, EFHW
faust (1): gkrieg13
SpaceAnemone (4): LaLight, Xxraptorslayer96, faust, mcmcsalot
LaLight (1): Dylan32
WestCoastDidds (1): SpaceAnemone
Not Voting (2): WestCoastDidds, Galzria

#158
mcmcsalot (2): MiX, EFHW
faust (1): gkrieg13
SpaceAnemone (4): LaLight, Xxraptorslayer96, faust, mcmcsalot
LaLight (1): Dylan32
WestCoastDidds (1): SpaceAnemone
Dylan32 (1): A Drowned Kernel
Not Voting (2): WestCoastDidds, Galzria

#162
mcmcsalot (2): MiX, EFHW
faust (1): gkrieg13
SpaceAnemone (3): LaLight, Xxraptorslayer96, mcmcsalot
LaLight (1): Dylan32
WestCoastDidds (1): SpaceAnemone
Dylan32 (2): A Drowned Kernel, faust
Not Voting (2): WestCoastDidds, Galzria

#179
mcmcsalot (2): MiX, EFHW
faust (1): gkrieg13
SpaceAnemone (3): LaLight, Xxraptorslayer96, mcmcsalot
LaLight (1): Dylan32
WestCoastDidds (1): SpaceAnemone
Dylan32 (2): A Drowned Kernel, faust
Galzria (1): WestCoastDidds
Not Voting (1): Galzria

#188
mcmcsalot (3): MiX, EFHW, A Drowned Kernel
faust (1): gkrieg13
SpaceAnemone (3): LaLight, Xxraptorslayer96, mcmcsalot
LaLight (1): Dylan32
WestCoastDidds (1): SpaceAnemone
Dylan32 (1): faust
Galzria (1): WestCoastDidds
Not Voting (1): Galzria

#189
mcmcsalot (3): MiX, EFHW, A Drowned Kernel
faust (1): gkrieg13
SpaceAnemone (2): LaLight, mcmcsalot
LaLight (1): Dylan32
WestCoastDidds (1): SpaceAnemone
Dylan32 (1): faust
Galzria (2): WestCoastDidds, Xxraptorslayer96
Not Voting (1): Galzria

#190
mcmcsalot (3): MiX, EFHW, A Drowned Kernel
faust (1): gkrieg13
SpaceAnemone (2): LaLight, mcmcsalot
LaLight (1): Dylan32
Dylan32 (1): faust
Galzria (3): WestCoastDidds, Xxraptorslayer96, SpaceAnemone
Not Voting (1): Galzria

#195
mcmcsalot (3): MiX, EFHW, A Drowned Kernel
faust (1): gkrieg13
SpaceAnemone (2): LaLight, mcmcsalot
LaLight (1): Dylan32
Galzria (4): WestCoastDidds, Xxraptorslayer96, SpaceAnemone, faust
Not Voting (1): Galzria

#202
mcmcsalot (3): MiX, EFHW, A Drowned Kernel
faust (1): gkrieg13
LaLight (1): Dylan32
SpaceAnemone (1): mcmcsalot
Galzria (5): WestCoastDidds, Xxraptorslayer96, SpaceAnemone, faust, LaLight
Not Voting (1): Galzria

#203
faust (1): gkrieg13
LaLight (2): Dylan32, MiX
mcmcsalot (2): EFHW, A Drowned Kernel
SpaceAnemone (1): mcmcsalot
Galzria (5): WestCoastDidds, Xxraptorslayer96, SpaceAnemone, faust, LaLight
Not Voting (1): Galzria

#220
faust (1): gkrieg13
LaLight (1): Dylan32
mcmcsalot (3): EFHW, A Drowned Kernel, MiX
SpaceAnemone (1): mcmcsalot
Galzria (5): WestCoastDidds, Xxraptorslayer96, SpaceAnemone, faust, LaLight
Not Voting (1): Galzria

#222
LaLight (1): Dylan32
mcmcsalot (3): EFHW, A Drowned Kernel, MiX
SpaceAnemone (1): mcmcsalot
Galzria (6): WestCoastDidds, Xxraptorslayer96, SpaceAnemone, faust, LaLight, gkrieg13
Not Voting (1): Galzria

#256
LaLight (1): Dylan32
mcmcsalot (3): EFHW, A Drowned Kernel, MiX
SpaceAnemone (2): mcmcsalot, Galzria
Galzria (6): WestCoastDidds, Xxraptorslayer96, SpaceAnemone, faust, LaLight, gkrieg13

#258
LaLight (1): Dylan32
mcmcsalot (3): EFHW, A Drowned Kernel, MiX
Galzria (7): WestCoastDidds, Xxraptorslayer96, SpaceAnemone, faust, LaLight, gkrieg13, mcmcsalot
SpaceAnemone (1): Galzria



VOTING FOR DAY 2

#293
EFHW (1): MiX
Not Voting (9): A Drowned Kernel, Dylan32, SpaceAnemone, WestCoastDidds, EFHW, Xxraptorslayer96, LaLight, mcmcsalot, gkrieg13

#298
EFHW (1): MiX
mcmcsalot (1): LaLight
Not Voting (8): A Drowned Kernel, Dylan32, SpaceAnemone, WestCoastDidds, EFHW, Xxraptorslayer96, mcmcsalot, gkrieg13

#302
EFHW (1): MiX
mcmcsalot (2): LaLight, EFHW
Not Voting (7): A Drowned Kernel, Dylan32, SpaceAnemone, WestCoastDidds, Xxraptorslayer96, mcmcsalot, gkrieg13

#310
EFHW (1): MiX
mcmcsalot (2): LaLight, EFHW
gkrieg13 (1): A Drowned Kernel
Not Voting (6): Dylan32, SpaceAnemone, WestCoastDidds, Xxraptorslayer96, mcmcsalot, gkrieg13

#320
EFHW (1): MiX
mcmcsalot (2): LaLight, EFHW
gkrieg13 (1): A Drowned Kernel
LaLight (1): Dylan32
Not Voting (5): SpaceAnemone, WestCoastDidds, Xxraptorslayer96, mcmcsalot, gkrieg13

#327
EFHW (1): MiX
mcmcsalot (1): EFHW
gkrieg13 (1): A Drowned Kernel
LaLight (1): Dylan32
Dylan32 (1): LaLight
Not Voting (5): SpaceAnemone, WestCoastDidds, Xxraptorslayer96, mcmcsalot, gkrieg13
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Scum games: M89(D), M108(L), NM8(W&MVP), NM10(L)   Mod: NM9, RMM38, RMM42.   Pronouns: they/them

MiX

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Re: M133 - FDS on a Plane Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #357 on: December 02, 2020, 07:14:28 pm »

The interesting thing is that either one of those five pairs of people is the rest of the scumteam, or (probably more likely) the scumteam decided not to bus at all, except possibly on Galz in the end.

I think you're completely forgetting about Didds' vote. What do you think of her?

What makes you think I'm forgetting?

1. I commented specifically that I was looking at unflipped-on-unflipped voting (Didds only ever voted Galz, who flipped).

2. I addressed the point that people being early voters on Galz (naming Didds and ADK) could look townier if this turns out to be evidence of a non-bussing strategy on behalf of scum.

Mostly this part which I isolated: it's missing Didds' vote on Galz.
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Re: M133 - FDS on a Plane Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #358 on: December 02, 2020, 07:59:34 pm »

I also think it is unlikely that partners bussed galz, because the main reason you do that as scum is if you get a bunch of town cred for bussing your partner D1, and the way it happened, with the reasons it happened do not point to anyone getting a bunch of town cred for exiling galz.

you contradict yourself here: you're giving towncres for things that can't get towncres
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Re: M133 - FDS on a Plane Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #359 on: December 02, 2020, 08:03:11 pm »

this is some grasping-at-straws theory, looking like you need something to form a scumread. I mean there's so much wifom in Galzria's list, that it can be entirely disregarded. vote: Dylan32

Why is Dylan more likely to do that as scum? I think he is also pretty likely to latch onto this theory as town. Not saying that I townread him, I'm just surprised that you voted for him after finding his theory weak.

i am coming around to the understanding that i might have overreacted, but this was quite a weak case and i thought this was just "i try to build something so it looks like i'm scumhunting". I still think that, but i can see some reason now, i think

vote: mcmc
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Re: M133 - FDS on a Plane Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #360 on: December 02, 2020, 08:04:15 pm »

still, actions of some people (mcmc and dylan) are for me more telling and more scummy than relying on trying to decode Galzria's post. I agree with Space that MiX defending Galzria is too bold of a move, MiX is a bit more rational than that, I believe. That leaves Space in the roster of people mentioned by Galz, and although I suspect them as well, their actions on D1 seem less scummy than convenient "rusty" mcmc hammer if that makes sense.

The issue I still have with writing off MiX as not being that bold is that often stopping someone from being exiled D1 can lead to them not really coming under scrutiny later, because people talk themselves out of exiling someone that was at X-1 D1. At least that has been my experience.

never thought of it this way, believe it or not
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Re: M133 - FDS on a Plane Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #361 on: December 02, 2020, 08:04:57 pm »

The interesting thing is that either one of those five pairs of people is the rest of the scumteam, or (probably more likely) the scumteam decided not to bus at all, except possibly on Galz in the end.

I think you're completely forgetting about Didds' vote. What do you think of her?

What makes you think I'm forgetting?

1. I commented specifically that I was looking at unflipped-on-unflipped voting (Didds only ever voted Galz, who flipped).

2. I addressed the point that people being early voters on Galz (naming Didds and ADK) could look townier if this turns out to be evidence of a non-bussing strategy on behalf of scum.

Mostly this part which I isolated: it's missing Didds' vote on Galz.

Yeah, but like I've said twice now, I was only looking at unflipped-on-unflipped voting, and Galz flipped, so I wasn't counting any votes on Galz, and that was entirely intentional.

If I had been counting votes on Galz, I'd have had to count everyone on the Galz wagon, including gkrieg, whom I also didn't mention in any of the pairs... so why are you singling Didds out and suggesting that I've somehow forgotten her?

PPE 3: hi LL :-)
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Re: M133 - FDS on a Plane Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #362 on: December 02, 2020, 08:07:34 pm »

Honestly, I don't remember LL jumping this hard on an omgus vote before. Like gkrieg pointed out, calling a case weak is different than saying the person making the case is scummy.

There goes my scum!faust theory

Phone posting atm but I will say that I would be shocked if Galz's partners weren't both bussing

What makes you say they would both be bussing? Most of the votes on his wagon were from EAL people, with some other stuff in there. It was also an exile on the day of the deadline, which I think scum still think they can get the exile to go a different day, which would make them less likely to bus.

You're missing some added context that in Galz's last couple games, his activity level has been a matter of discussion and concern to the point that last game it had been discussed whether they were inactive enough to warrant a lurker exile D1. The fact that this game started the same way gives a bit more cover for scum to go ahead and join that specific bus in hopes of grabbing the towncred since there would have been an argument to be made that it was a pro-town exile regardless of flip.

Oddly enough, I think of the people on wagon, mcmc is the one I feel least inclined to exile right now. His reasons (of course given after the fact, so grain of salt) are more substantial than anything anyone else said in the course of the wagon building.  EFHW's point about going from "I know you're scum" to using "if" again later is one of those things that might seem bad on the surface, but if playing with MiX has taught me anything, it's that absolute statements don't always mean the person is absolutely sure and unable to change their mind. Also, the confident statement was when he voted, and the uncertainty was after the post-hammer cop claim, which I would say gives mcmc reason enough to question that read while waiting for the flip.

Vote: LaLight

Just iso'd LL and read through Galz's stream of posts when he came back and said a lot. Between the two I think there's a decent chance LL is scum here.

Galz claimed 1 scum in {faust, space}, probably one in {LL, MiX}, and one in the rest. Since galz wasn't able to talk to his partners to plan the nk, I doubt they would have paid much attention to his pairings when thinking about the nk, so I don't think this says anything about Space for sure, but I don't think galz leaves both partners out of his scum-read pairings, so I feel pretty confident there's at least 1 in {space, LL, MiX}.

holy ppe 8 batman

this is some grasping-at-straws theory, looking like you need something to form a scumread. I mean there's so much wifom in Galzria's list, that it can be entirely disregarded. vote: Dylan32

still, actions of some people (mcmc and dylan) are for me more telling and more scummy than relying on trying to decode Galzria's post. I agree with Space that MiX defending Galzria is too bold of a move, MiX is a bit more rational than that, I believe. That leaves Space in the roster of people mentioned by Galz, and although I suspect them as well, their actions on D1 seem less scummy than convenient "rusty" mcmc hammer if that makes sense.

I think I might be slightly misreading your first sentence of the second post. In the first post's bolded sentence and subsequent vote, you basically say I'm scummy for trying to decode Galzria's post and making a little case out of it. In the second, you say mcmc and myself did things that are more scummy than trying to decode Galzria's post, which is what you voted for me for doing a few posts earlier.

So did you mean to say you think there were other scummy things beyond that which justify your vote more than just the thing you used as a basis for the vote, or that trying to decode Galzria's post isn't scummy compared to other things, or what?

sorry, that sentence is a mess. what i meant was that your actions (trying to decode) are scummier than people who were in Galzria's post
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Re: M133 - FDS on a Plane Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #363 on: December 02, 2020, 08:08:06 pm »

Also, I don't think I've seen LL respond like this to a single vote on him. Like not a wagon, but a single vote. I'm not ready to say that's scummy in and of itself, but it isn't hard to imagine coming back after a long gap, drawing scum in game 1, and feeling a little nervous and like you need to deflect and stay out of pressure.

oh, I certainly do, actually, all the time. You're lucky I didn't claim yet
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Re: M133 - FDS on a Plane Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #364 on: December 02, 2020, 08:08:47 pm »

I also think it is unlikely that partners bussed galz, because the main reason you do that as scum is if you get a bunch of town cred for bussing your partner D1, and the way it happened, with the reasons it happened do not point to anyone getting a bunch of town cred for exiling galz.

you contradict yourself here: you're giving towncres for things that can't get towncres

towncred*
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Re: M133 - FDS on a Plane Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #365 on: December 02, 2020, 08:10:25 pm »

Also, I don't think I've seen LL respond like this to a single vote on him. Like not a wagon, but a single vote. I'm not ready to say that's scummy in and of itself, but it isn't hard to imagine coming back after a long gap, drawing scum in game 1, and feeling a little nervous and like you need to deflect and stay out of pressure.

oh, I certainly do, actually, all the time. You're lucky I didn't claim yet

also, vote: Dylan
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Re: M133 - FDS on a Plane Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #366 on: December 02, 2020, 08:13:14 pm »

I'm off to sleep now
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Re: M133 - FDS on a Plane Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #367 on: December 02, 2020, 10:52:13 pm »

Also, I don't think I've seen LL respond like this to a single vote on him. Like not a wagon, but a single vote. I'm not ready to say that's scummy in and of itself, but it isn't hard to imagine coming back after a long gap, drawing scum in game 1, and feeling a little nervous and like you need to deflect and stay out of pressure.

oh, I certainly do, actually, all the time. You're lucky I didn't claim yet

also, vote: Dylan

This is an interesting reversal when I hadn't even responded to his vote change earlier.
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Re: M133 - FDS on a Plane Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #368 on: December 02, 2020, 11:02:41 pm »

Vote Count 2.3:

MCMC (1): EFHW
EFHW (1): MiX
gkrieg (1): ADK
LaLight (1): Dylan23
Dylan23 (1): LaLight

Not Voting (5): SpaceAnemone, WestCoastDidds, MCMC, XxRaptorSlayer96, gkrieg


With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
Day 2 starts now and ends on December 6th at 5:20pm Forum Time.
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Re: M133 - FDS on a Plane Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #369 on: December 03, 2020, 12:23:53 am »

Apologize for being MIA, I'm catching up now!
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Re: M133 - FDS on a Plane Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #370 on: December 03, 2020, 08:07:27 am »

Hi Mix, how’s tricks in Portugal?

What’s you rubbing the wrong way about my vote for Galz?
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Re: M133 - FDS on a Plane Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #371 on: December 03, 2020, 08:21:24 am »

Hi Mix, how’s tricks in Portugal?

What’s you rubbing the wrong way about my vote for Galz?

Tricks?

Space's saying that either scum voted scum on the 5 unknown-on-unknown votes. or scum didn't bus, or scum bussed late. This is missing your early vote on Galzria, and I wanted to see why Space forgot about this.
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Re: M133 - FDS on a Plane Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #372 on: December 03, 2020, 08:22:35 am »

At the end, it looks like galz tries to stop a wagon from forming on mcmc. Maybe he realized that mcmc was the only other person he could reasonably get a wagon going on and was looking for other last-minute alternatives?
Does this mean you think mcmc is scum?
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Re: M133 - FDS on a Plane Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #373 on: December 03, 2020, 09:24:10 am »

Hi Mix, how’s tricks in Portugal?

What’s you rubbing the wrong way about my vote for Galz?

Tricks?

Space's saying that either scum voted scum on the 5 unknown-on-unknown votes. or scum didn't bus, or scum bussed late. This is missing your early vote on Galzria, and I wanted to see why Space forgot about this.

Tricks is just an expression for “what’s up?” It’s loosely based on a nod to what prostitutes might say to each other, but that isn’t how I was using it. It seems apt for you because you’re kind of tricksy.

She said that she didn’t include anyone who voted for someone who hadn’t flipped. I only voted for someone who had flipped, so I was left out. She also left out the votes on Galz from other folks on his wagon at the end, and ADKs vote on Galz earlier in the day. She was only looking at the votes on people still unknown to try to build a sense of interactions.
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Re: M133 - FDS on a Plane Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #374 on: December 03, 2020, 09:37:12 am »

@ADK: At 144 you were the only one voting Galz. Then you voted Dylan at 159 and mcmc at 189, both before the flood of votes for Galz that started at 190. Why did you leave Galz and why didn't you go back?
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