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Author Topic: M133 - FDS on a Plane Mafia - Game Over! Town Wins Flawlessly!  (Read 60760 times)

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WestCoastDidds

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Re: M133 - FDS on a Plane Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #300 on: November 30, 2020, 10:04:47 am »

MiX, you seem oddly salty about Galz being scum? Did you not do the dance of joy???

I'm not sure if it was joy. I kinda hated that the exile was justified by his flip, but I'm happy that the game's that much easier for us. It was mostly me throwing away all of my reads, since I made them thinking Galz would flip town.

It was unexpected joy! But joy nonetheless.  We'll have to work on your dance...
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WestCoastDidds

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Re: M133 - FDS on a Plane Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #301 on: November 30, 2020, 10:06:57 am »

I can be clear my vote is a scum read

mcmc...can you tell us what you found scummy about Galz?
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EFHW

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Re: M133 - FDS on a Plane Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #302 on: November 30, 2020, 10:43:08 am »

Thoughts on mcmc. First, here's a rundown of his posts Day 1.

75 v. faust wagon building
84 nvr too early to sheep or wagon build
132 Here, not many thoughts. Feeling rusty. unvote faust, towny. Join v. Space.
138 Explains faust vote in terms of who was on what wagons. Hoped to generate interesting interactions. Tends to trust gkrieg and LL when they are town. Happy to sheep them. Didn't like Space's vote for Didds.
139 " yea if I am criticizing my own vote it looks more like I moved off of Faust because it went nowhere than gkrieg. I mean I'm sheeping the person I was voting, that looks dodgier than faust moving. I think that means mix is towny? Scum probably tries to say my Faust vote is disingenious."
143 Space has been more jokey. He has missed being on the forum.
188 Explaining why people say they need to reread. "scum I think is more likely to know the state of the game and the fact that it’s just overall slower."
222 Scum!LL never jumps on scum!Galz there. But maybe scum like easy lurker exiles. NAI.
239 v. Galz. "Thanks for the thoughts and the correct read on me. I do think you read me well however I think you don’t really need to guess this game as you already know." Hammer.
280 Oops, forgot to give chance to claim. Rusty
268 faust says "Lol yeah. I'm like 70% that Glazria will flip scum." mcmc says "I hope so but don’t think galz fake claims here. Though if scum it is a good attempt to sus out more information for his partners."
281 Peacemaking between Galz and faust.
283 "I can be clear my vote is a scum read"

First off, the hammer, and the snarky "I know you are scum so don't deny it" tone come out of the blue in that he made no statements of opinion on Galz's alignment before 222. In that post, it sounds to me like he did know Galz was scum and was trying to defend LL in that context.

268 is really confusing. He seems to be saying that while he hopes faust is right, he thinks Galz is town because Scum!Galz doesn't fakeclaim here. Why not? Then he says if scum, it would be good play. But he was already talking about "if scum". So it's like he doesn't remember what stance he pretended to have on Galz. Then in 283 reaffirms his confident scumread.

The 7 posts before 222 have a lot of explaining in them. Why he voted faust. Why he moved to Space. Why people would think that was scummy (139 reads really scummy to me, especially the MiX towny part). Why people say they need to reread. But this is where I run into trouble. The second part of 188, like 168, doesn't really fit what he was saying. And scum say they have to reread ALL the time. Scummy. But then I remembered that town!mcmc can be this way - where his posts don't fit together logically to my ear - and I usually scumread him for it.

But I'm still going to

Vote: mcmc

because the whole picture is scummy, not just 168 and 188.
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WestCoastDidds

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Re: M133 - FDS on a Plane Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #303 on: November 30, 2020, 11:23:01 am »

That's some solid effort on a Monday morning, EFHW!  Thank you.
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Swowl

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Re: M133 - FDS on a Plane Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #304 on: November 30, 2020, 02:44:29 pm »

Vote Count 2.1:

MCMC (2): LaLight, EFHW
EFHW (1): MiX

Not Voting (7): ADK, Dylan32, SpaceAnemone, WestCoastDidds, MCMC, XxRaptorSlayer96, gkrieg


With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
Day 2 starts now and ends on December 6th at 5:20pm Forum Time.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2020, 06:45:02 pm by Swowl »
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SpaceAnemone

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Re: M133 - FDS on a Plane Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #305 on: November 30, 2020, 06:01:32 pm »

Vote Count 2.1:

MCMC (2): LaLight, EFHW
EFHW (1): MiX

Not Voting (7): ADK, Dylan32, SpaceAnemone, WestCoastDidds, EFHW, XxRaptorSlayer96, gkrieg


With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
Day 2 starts now and ends on December 6th at 5:20pm Forum Time.

There are two EFHWs and no mcmcs voting in this VC, which rather confused me :-P
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SpaceAnemone

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Re: M133 - FDS on a Plane Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #306 on: November 30, 2020, 06:04:32 pm »

I can be clear my vote is a scum read

mcmc...can you tell us what you found scummy about Galz?

Yep, this is a key question, and one I think I'd like to see an answer to from mcmc himself before I post more thoughts.
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Swowl

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Re: M133 - FDS on a Plane Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #307 on: November 30, 2020, 06:46:33 pm »

Vote Count 2.1:

MCMC (2): LaLight, EFHW
EFHW (1): MiX

Not Voting (7): ADK, Dylan32, SpaceAnemone, WestCoastDidds, EFHW, XxRaptorSlayer96, gkrieg


With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
Day 2 starts now and ends on December 6th at 5:20pm Forum Time.

There are two EFHWs and no mcmcs voting in this VC, which rather confused me :-P

Thnks Space! Fixed.
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mcmcsalot

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Re: M133 - FDS on a Plane Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #308 on: November 30, 2020, 07:01:34 pm »

I can be clear my vote is a scum read

mcmc...can you tell us what you found scummy about Galz?

Yep, this is a key question, and one I think I'd like to see an answer to from mcmc himself before I post more thoughts.

Galz is correct that he reads me better than most, we have played together along time. My scum read was a gut feeling that I was being buddied. Galz choosing to be sure to respond to the couple votes I had gotten and express his town read on me struck me as off and hollow. Felt much more like scum!Galz buddying me than it did town!Galz wanting to express his town read on me.

Town!Galz isn’t as concerned about town!mcmc voting for him as scum!Galz is. Scum!galz has to take the time to defend himself and make sure I decide to take up the cause and defend him as well swinging the exhile to a third party.
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gkrieg13

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Re: M133 - FDS on a Plane Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #309 on: November 30, 2020, 07:12:55 pm »

Sorry busy day. Will get to this tomorrow. We got one!
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Re: M133 - FDS on a Plane Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #310 on: November 30, 2020, 10:58:07 pm »

vote: gkrieg
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gkrieg13

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Re: M133 - FDS on a Plane Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #311 on: December 01, 2020, 12:44:16 pm »

There goes my scum!faust theory

Phone posting atm but I will say that I would be shocked if Galz's partners weren't both bussing

What makes you say they would both be bussing? Most of the votes on his wagon were from EAL people, with some other stuff in there. It was also an exile on the day of the deadline, which I think scum still think they can get the exile to go a different day, which would make them less likely to bus.
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gkrieg13

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Re: M133 - FDS on a Plane Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #312 on: December 01, 2020, 12:52:15 pm »

I would be shocked if Galz's partners weren't both bussing

Do you really think that scum would have killed on-waggon, when the IC was also on-waggon, if both of the remaining pair were there too? For me and others in my position, that means that of the four alignment-uncertain other people on the wagon, 50% are scum. I think that's too bold an assumption.

I do think that mcmc's hammer and subsequent claim that it was because of a definite scumread, rather than the lurker-exile some of us were supporting, should be considered as a possible grab for townpoints from a scumbuddy. However, at the time Raptor and I voted for Galz, mcmc was the leading alternative. It wasn't until conf!town!faust put Galz up to four votes, quickly followed my LaLight, that Galz looked to be seriously in jeopardy... so maybe you can give a bit more scrutiny to gkrieg or mcmc for their very late-on-the-wagon votes, but I think it would be surprising if they're both scum.

How do you feel about MiX's attempts to get people to vote away from Galz around the times that faust, LL and gkrieg all voted for Galz?

PPE 1: yes, EFHW is also apparently looking scummily at mcmc!

Exactly what Space said at the top of their post. I think it is rather unlikely that there were both scum on wagon.
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gkrieg13

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Re: M133 - FDS on a Plane Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #313 on: December 01, 2020, 12:53:34 pm »

Vote: EFHW 's in the best possible spot for scum: outside the scum wagon, on the counterwagon, not directly tied to the Galz wagon on either side. If scum's on it, it would be either Space or gkrieg, which have the best bus spot and the least impactful vote.

How is putting someone to E-1 saying that I won't be around for the deadline the least impactful vote?
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gkrieg13

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Re: M133 - FDS on a Plane Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #314 on: December 01, 2020, 12:55:23 pm »

I would be shocked if Galz's partners weren't both bussing

Do you really think that scum would have killed on-waggon, when the IC was also on-waggon, if both of the remaining pair were there too? For me and others in my position, that means that of the four alignment-uncertain other people on the wagon, 50% are scum. I think that's too bold an assumption.

I do think that mcmc's hammer and subsequent claim that it was because of a definite scumread, rather than the lurker-exile some of us were supporting, should be considered as a possible grab for townpoints from a scumbuddy. However, at the time Raptor and I voted for Galz, mcmc was the leading alternative. It wasn't until conf!town!faust put Galz up to four votes, quickly followed my LaLight, that Galz looked to be seriously in jeopardy... so maybe you can give a bit more scrutiny to gkrieg or mcmc for their very late-on-the-wagon votes, but I think it would be surprising if they're both scum.

How do you feel about MiX's attempts to get people to vote away from Galz around the times that faust, LL and gkrieg all voted for Galz?

PPE 1: yes, EFHW is also apparently looking scummily at mcmc!

I think scum kills on wagon because they're hoping to keep all the off-wagon people alive for misexile and they're banking on on-wagon town not suspecting the other on-wagon players

MiX is basically an IC for me at this point, no way does MiX not bus his partner in that position

Is this based on MiX's meta or on his position of actively posting while his partner sat at E-1?
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gkrieg13

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Re: M133 - FDS on a Plane Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #315 on: December 01, 2020, 12:56:29 pm »

vote: mcmc

that was exactly the right spot in the right time to hammer your partner

The more I think about it, the more I think you are right. Still need to reread the end of the day.
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Re: M133 - FDS on a Plane Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #316 on: December 01, 2020, 01:01:15 pm »

There goes my scum!faust theory

Phone posting atm but I will say that I would be shocked if Galz's partners weren't both bussing

What makes you say they would both be bussing? Most of the votes on his wagon were from EAL people, with some other stuff in there. It was also an exile on the day of the deadline, which I think scum still think they can get the exile to go a different day, which would make them less likely to bus.

Because the EAL justification is the easiest one to back out of if galz actually does show up. If galz doesn't show up, you can can get the towncred when does get exiled, if he doesn't it's easy to say "well galz showed up and put in some good work so let's look elsewhere"
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gkrieg13

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Re: M133 - FDS on a Plane Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #317 on: December 01, 2020, 01:05:16 pm »

If Swowl could find a replacement,  that would be better for the fun of the game than exiling Galz. Also, it seems to me that scum!Galz would be less likely to do this.

This is a scummy post from EFHW when the galz wagon was picking up EAL folks.
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gkrieg13

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Re: M133 - FDS on a Plane Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #318 on: December 01, 2020, 01:09:22 pm »

I'd like to see Swowl's response on willingness to replace Galz, though on balance I think unvoting till that happens isn't good, because as it stands now, at least we have a nice analysable wagon of people willing to push Galz, and that may or may not be useful later on as we get flips.

I agree that LL's iffy case on me and willingness to jump off the wagon doesn't actually look scummy particularly, though I'll be keeping my eye on them anyway. Maybe like 10% as much as I'm keeping my eye on faust, though.

I don't feel like I know mcmc quite well enough to feel EFHW's case really. The only person giving me scum vibes is MiX, and I think that's pretty NAI.

It would be good to hear more from Dylan and Raptor, since other than Galz I feel like they're the ones we're not hearing much from.

This post from Space as a reaction also has me read them as more townie. I think they would have moved from galz as scum, as opposed to saying that they don't want to move their vote because they want good wagon analysis. This also really cements their read of galz at this point I think.
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Re: M133 - FDS on a Plane Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #319 on: December 01, 2020, 01:11:26 pm »

As much as I hate raptor's vote (and the Galz wagon (holy hell he's at X-1, why)), he's doing a perfectly good job as an IC, and I don't think he needs to say more. Dylan does though, is he even scumreading who he's voting for?

MiX reads very scummy, trying to get people off of galz and on to other exiles, trying to get people that may convince people off of galz back into the game (other lurkers).
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Dylan32

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Re: M133 - FDS on a Plane Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #320 on: December 01, 2020, 01:14:24 pm »

There goes my scum!faust theory

Phone posting atm but I will say that I would be shocked if Galz's partners weren't both bussing

What makes you say they would both be bussing? Most of the votes on his wagon were from EAL people, with some other stuff in there. It was also an exile on the day of the deadline, which I think scum still think they can get the exile to go a different day, which would make them less likely to bus.

You're missing some added context that in Galz's last couple games, his activity level has been a matter of discussion and concern to the point that last game it had been discussed whether they were inactive enough to warrant a lurker exile D1. The fact that this game started the same way gives a bit more cover for scum to go ahead and join that specific bus in hopes of grabbing the towncred since there would have been an argument to be made that it was a pro-town exile regardless of flip.

Oddly enough, I think of the people on wagon, mcmc is the one I feel least inclined to exile right now. His reasons (of course given after the fact, so grain of salt) are more substantial than anything anyone else said in the course of the wagon building.  EFHW's point about going from "I know you're scum" to using "if" again later is one of those things that might seem bad on the surface, but if playing with MiX has taught me anything, it's that absolute statements don't always mean the person is absolutely sure and unable to change their mind. Also, the confident statement was when he voted, and the uncertainty was after the post-hammer cop claim, which I would say gives mcmc reason enough to question that read while waiting for the flip.

Vote: LaLight

Just iso'd LL and read through Galz's stream of posts when he came back and said a lot. Between the two I think there's a decent chance LL is scum here.

Galz claimed 1 scum in {faust, space}, probably one in {LL, MiX}, and one in the rest. Since galz wasn't able to talk to his partners to plan the nk, I doubt they would have paid much attention to his pairings when thinking about the nk, so I don't think this says anything about Space for sure, but I don't think galz leaves both partners out of his scum-read pairings, so I feel pretty confident there's at least 1 in {space, LL, MiX}.

holy ppe 8 batman
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Re: M133 - FDS on a Plane Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #321 on: December 01, 2020, 01:15:01 pm »

At the end, it looks like galz tries to stop a wagon from forming on mcmc. Maybe he realized that mcmc was the only other person he could reasonably get a wagon going on and was looking for other last-minute alternatives?
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Re: M133 - FDS on a Plane Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #322 on: December 01, 2020, 01:16:16 pm »

If Swowl could find a replacement,  that would be better for the fun of the game than exiling Galz. Also, it seems to me that scum!Galz would be less likely to do this.

This is a scummy post from EFHW when the galz wagon was picking up EAL folks.

agree with this
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Re: M133 - FDS on a Plane Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #323 on: December 01, 2020, 01:21:35 pm »

There goes my scum!faust theory

Phone posting atm but I will say that I would be shocked if Galz's partners weren't both bussing

What makes you say they would both be bussing? Most of the votes on his wagon were from EAL people, with some other stuff in there. It was also an exile on the day of the deadline, which I think scum still think they can get the exile to go a different day, which would make them less likely to bus.

Because the EAL justification is the easiest one to back out of if galz actually does show up. If galz doesn't show up, you can can get the towncred when does get exiled, if he doesn't it's easy to say "well galz showed up and put in some good work so let's look elsewhere"

I'm actually curious but don't have time to keep sitting here to read atm, but if scum was the early-mid wagon EAL or no explanation voters, did they end up just stuck on the wagon after Galz did show up, not having time to move before the hammer, or did they actually post in between and choose to stay on there. Because if things went as fast as I think they did, I could see scum saying EAL and then just not getting online in time to actually say "hey Galz showed up, let's look elsewhere." If that's the case, the middle of the wagon voters are more sus than mcmc hammering imo.
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Re: M133 - FDS on a Plane Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #324 on: December 01, 2020, 07:22:52 pm »

I'm actually curious but don't have time to keep sitting here to read atm, but if scum was the early-mid wagon EAL or no explanation voters, did they end up just stuck on the wagon after Galz did show up, not having time to move before the hammer, or did they actually post in between and choose to stay on there. Because if things went as fast as I think they did, I could see scum saying EAL and then just not getting online in time to actually say "hey Galz showed up, let's look elsewhere." If that's the case, the middle of the wagon voters are more sus than mcmc hammering imo.

Huh, I went back to look at this out of curiosity, especially since "early-mid" is exactly the portion I know to be solidly town, given that 2-4 are the IC, me, and town!faust.

Here's the wagon at the end:
Galzria (7): WestCoastDidds, Xxraptorslayer96, SpaceAnemone, faust, LaLight, gkrieg13, mcmcsalot

Picking out the unknowns (from the point of view of town as a whole) on the wagon:
Didds: didn't post at all since 30 mins before gkrieg's X-1.
me: I posted twice after the X-1: once in the post gkrieg noted, where I declined to move my vote off Galz, and once at #247, to comment on something I disagreed with in the wall of posts that Galz had started at #227.
LaLight: hadn't posted since a few posts before Didd's most recent one.
gkrieg: made a couple of posts after the X-1, ending 2 hours before Galz returned. Gkrieg didn't return until D2.
mcmc: was the hammer.

So actually, other than me being around and after the posts and still not wanting to unvote, that doesn't show much.
Logged
Congratulations! Your SpaceAnemone evolved into UniverseAnemone!
Town games: M84(L), M85(W), M86(L), M87(W), M88(L), M90(L), M92(W), M94(L), M97(L), M99(W), M100(L), M104(W), M107(W), M110(L), M112(L), RMM37(L), RMM40(D), RMM41(L), RMM43(L), RMM47(W), ZM23(W).
Scum games: M89(D), M108(L), NM8(W&MVP), NM10(L)   Mod: NM9, RMM38, RMM42.   Pronouns: they/them
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