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Author Topic: Way 'for its own ability'  (Read 1484 times)

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DooWopDJ

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Way 'for its own ability'
« on: October 26, 2020, 10:15:18 pm »
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The Ways rules states "... If the card you are playing is a Duration card, it only stays in play if at least one of its plays was for its own abilities..."

Are there some guidance as to how we determine 'at least one of its plays was for its own abilities'?
Are +1 card and + 1 action each a 'play'?
Or maybe like the Enchantress, we are ignoring the 'top rule' and use the Way directions, but on the 'duration' part (the +2 cards) we still draw the 2 cards? But maybe we should not ignore the top rule?
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scolapasta

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Re: Way 'for its own ability'
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2020, 10:20:32 pm »
+1

When it refers to one of its plays, it is in the context of first playing a Throne Room (or similar card), i.e when you play the card twice.

If you play it twice as a Way, it does not stay out.
Once as a a Way, once for its own abilities, it stay out*.
Twice for its own abilities, it stays out*.

* assuming it has something to do in a future turn, e.g if the card it Secret Cave and you do not discard cards, it would still get cleaned up.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2020, 01:41:10 am by scolapasta »
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GendoIkari

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Re: Way 'for its own ability'
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2020, 10:56:05 pm »
+2

Ways don’t actually change the regular rules for Durations at all; that rule is just addressing one specific example of the general rule. The general rule is that a Duration card stays out if it still has stuff left to do when you get to your cleanup step.

In the specific case, if you played Wharf and chose Way of the Pig, then that Duration wouldn’t have anything left to do next turn, so it doesn't stay out. If you are playing Wharf twice with Throne Room and choose Pig for one time you play it, and don’t choose a Way for the other time, then it stays out because it still has something left to do next turn.

It also seems like you might be misunderstanding how Wharf works with Enchantress. The +2 cards next turn is still part of the “top part” just like the +2 cards this turn is. You do not get the +2 cards next turn if you play Wharf as your first action when Enchantress is out.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2020, 10:02:21 am by GendoIkari »
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GendoIkari

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Re: Way 'for its own ability'
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2020, 10:02:30 am »
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> In the specific case, if you played Wharf and chose Way of the Pig, then that Duration wouldn’t have anything left to do next turn, so it stays out.

I'm pretty sure GendoIkari wanted to write that it doesn't stay out in the above case.

Yeah, fixed, thanks!
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DooWopDJ

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Re: Way 'for its own ability'
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2020, 12:59:34 pm »
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Here is my current understanding.  Now that GendoIkari has clarified with the example of what the use of "play" meant.  I was getting confused with things such as' +1 Card or +1 Action as an 'ability' that the card had 'at least one of its plays was for its own abilities' remaining.  I had been viewing these as 'it still has stuff left to do' (as GendoIkari said), as they would be 'left to do' on the next players turn and my next turn.

So now unless I use a different card that activates a secondary 'play' usage (such as Throne Room) then the Duration card would get cleaned up during it's initial play (because it is NOT really a Enchantress it is a Way), but it would stay out if I use the Duration card as itself (and not use a Way card as it's replacement Action).
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GendoIkari

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Re: Way 'for its own ability'
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2020, 01:11:37 pm »
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Here is my current understanding.  Now that GendoIkari has clarified with the example of what the use of "play" meant.  I was getting confused with things such as' +1 Card or +1 Action as an 'ability' that the card had 'at least one of its plays was for its own abilities' remaining.  I had been viewing these as 'it still has stuff left to do' (as GendoIkari said), as they would be 'left to do' on the next players turn and my next turn.

So now unless I use a different card that activates a secondary 'play' usage (such as Throne Room) then the Duration card would get cleaned up during it's initial play (because it is NOT really a Enchantress it is a Way), but it would stay out if I use the Duration card as itself (and not use a Way card as it's replacement Action).

Ah, I thought you were talking about a Duration card that had its effect replaced by Enchantress, but I see now that you are talking about the +2 cards on Enchantress itself. So I was wrong in correcting you on that part.

Your summary is correct, with the nitpick that an Enchantress played as a Way is still an Enchantress for the purposes of things that care about what card names are in play. It just never did any of Enchantress's normal effects.
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DooWopDJ

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Re: Way 'for its own ability'
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2020, 04:18:24 pm »
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Thanks.  Can you clarify an example of what you mean by '...for the purposes of things that care about what card names are in play...'? Apologies for not understanding the lingo on this thread.
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Holger

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Re: Way 'for its own ability'
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2020, 06:07:56 pm »
+1

Thanks.  Can you clarify an example of what you mean by '...for the purposes of things that care about what card names are in play...'? Apologies for not understanding the lingo on this thread.
E.g. Horn of Plenty counts how many differently named cards are in play, no matter whether they were played as Ways or as themselves.
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