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Donald X.

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Minor note about new printings
« on: October 26, 2020, 06:13:45 am »
+17

With new copies of Seaside, Prosperity, and Hinterlands printed recently, some cards have new wordings. Mostly they are non-functional changes.

Functional changes:
- Trader's reaction is now a when-gain rather than a when-would-gain; in most situations this isn't different, but it simplifies some confusing situations. This means that now any when-gain abilities of the gained card will still work, even if you exchange it for a Silver.
- Oracle now says +2 Cards again, rather than "draw 2 cards." This change is to have Way of the Chameleon interact with new copies in the same way that it does with most printed copies, and was already in the online version.
- Embargo has now been printed with the errata it has had for a while.

Cosmetic changes:
- Treasures no longer will say "when you play this" on such abilities; they just say what they do when played. Changed cards: Bank, Contraband, Loan, Venture, Ill-Gotten Gains.
- Treasures no longer say they're "worth" a certain amount; instead they use "+$" like non-Treasures. Changed cards: Bank, Fool's Gold.
- Some "while this is in play" abilities now say "while you have this in play" to be clearer. Changed cards: Lighthouse, Goons, Hoard, Royal Seal, Talisman, Haggler.
- I continue to drop "not less than $0" from cards that lower costs. Changed cards: Quarry, Peddler, Highway.
- Peddler has been rephrased for clarity.
- Noble Brigand has been rephrased so that it has a dividing line before the when-buy ability. To get the text to fit on the card, it says "do its attack"; this means, do the above-the-line part except for the +$1.

There are other cards that will eventually get some of these general changes (e.g., Relic will no longer say "when you play this"), but they haven't been printed yet.

Full texts of changed cards:

* * *

Seaside:

Embargo: Action, $2
+$2
Trash this to add an Embargo token to a Supply pile. (For the rest of the game, when a player buys a card from that pile, they gain a Curse.)

Lighthouse: Action - Duration, $2
+1 Action
Now and at the start of your next turn, +$1.
----------
While you have this in play, when another player plays an Attack card, it doesn't affect you.

Prosperity:

Bank: Treasure, $7, worth $?
+$1 per Treasure card you have in play (counting this).

Contraband: Treasure, $5, worth $3
$3 [big coin]
+1 Buy
The player to your left names a card. You can’t buy that card this turn.

Goons: Action - Attack, $6
+1 Buy
+$2
Each other player discards down to 3 cards in hand.
----------
While you have this in play, when you buy a card, +1VP.

Hoard: Treasure, $6, worth $2
$2 [big coin]
----------
While you have this in play, when you buy a Victory card, gain a Gold.

Loan: Treasure, $3, worth $1
$1 [big coin]
Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal a Treasure. Discard it or trash it. Discard the other cards.

Peddler: Action, $8*
+1 Card
+1 Action
+$1
----------
During a player's Buy phase, this costs $2 less per Action card they have in play.

Quarry: Treasure, $4, worth $1
$1 [big coin]
----------
While this is in play, Action cards cost $2 less.

Royal Seal: Treasure, $5, worth $2
$2 [big coin]
----------
While you have this in play, when you gain a card, you may put that card onto your deck.

Talisman: Treasure, $4, worth $1
$1 [big coin]
----------
While you have this in play, when you buy a non-Victory card costing $4 or less, gain a copy of it.

Venture: Treasure, $5, worth $1
$1 [big coin]
Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal a Treasure. Discard the other cards. Play that Treasure.

Hinterlands:

Fool's Gold: Treasure - Reaction, $2, worth $?
If this is the first time you played a Fool's Gold this turn, +$1, otherwise +$4.
----------
When another player gains a Province, you may trash this from your hand, to gain a Gold onto your deck.

Haggler: Action, $5
+$2
----------
While you have this in play, when you buy a card, gain a cheaper non-Victory card.

Highway: Action, $5
+1 Card
+1 Action
----------
While this is in play, cards cost $1 less.

Ill-Gotten Gains: Treasure, $5, worth $1
$1 [big coin]
You may gain a Copper to your hand.
----------
When you gain this, each other player gains a Curse.

Noble Brigand: Action - Attack, $4
+$1
Each other player reveals the top 2 cards of their deck, trashes a revealed Silver or Gold you choose, discards the rest, and gains a Copper if they didn't reveal a Treasure. You gain the trashed cards.
----------
When you buy this, do its attack.

Oracle: Action - Attack, $3
Each player (including you) reveals the top 2 cards of their deck, and discards them or puts them back, your choice (they choose the order). Then, +2 Cards.

Trader: Action - Reaction, $4
Trash a card from your hand. Gain a Silver per $1 it costs.
----------
When you gain a card, you may reveal this from your hand, to exchange the card for a Silver.

* * *

Someone is thinking, hey those treasures say "worth," what gives. That's just how my text versions indicate what goes in the upper corners of the Treasure cards; it's not a word in the card texts.

Edit: Other recent new wordings, so they're in one place.

* * *

Adventures:

Inheritance: Event, $7
Once per game: Set aside a non-Command Action card from the Supply costing up to $4. Move your Estate token to it. (During your turns, Estates are also Actions with "Play the card with your Estate token, leaving it there.")

Coin of the Realm: Treasure - Reserve, $2, worth $1
$1 [big coin]
Put this on your Tavern mat.
----------
After you play an Action card, you may call this, for +2 Actions.

Royal Carriage: Action - Reserve, $5
+1 Action
Put this on your Tavern mat.
----------
After you play an Action card, if it's still in play, you may call this, to replay that Action.

Treasure Trove: Treasure, $5, worth $2
$2 [big coin]
Gain a Gold and a Copper.

Relic: Treasure - Attack, $5, worth $2
$2 [big coin]
Each other player puts their -1 Card token on their deck.

Bridge Troll: Action - Attack - Duration, $5
Each other player takes their -$1 token.
Now and at the start of your next turn: +1 Buy.
----------
While you have this in play, cards cost $1 less on your turns.

Artificer: Action, $5
+1 Card
+1 Action
+$1
Discard any number of cards. You may gain a card onto your deck, costing exactly $1 per card discarded.

*************************************************************************************************

Empires:

Charm: Treasure, $5, worth $?
Choose one: +1 Buy and +$2; or the next time you buy a card this turn, you may also gain a differently named card with the same cost.

Farmers' Market: Action - Gathering, $3
+1 Buy
If there are 4VP or more on the Farmers' Market pile, take them and trash this. Otherwise, add 1VP to the pile and then +$1 per 1VP on the pile.

Groundskeeper: Action, $5
+1 Card
+1 Action
----------
While you have this is in play, when you gain a Victory card, +1VP.

Overlord: Action - Command, [8D]
Play a non-Command Action card from the Supply costing up to $5, leaving it there.

Sacrifice: Action, $4
Trash a card from your hand. If it's an...
Action card, +2 Cards and +2 Actions
Treasure card, +$2
Victory card, +2VP

Temple: Action - Gathering, $4
+1VP
Trash from 1 to 3 differently named cards from your hand. Add 1VP to the Temple pile.
----------
When you gain this, take the VP from the Temple pile.

Wild Hunt: Action - Gathering, $5
Choose one: +3 Cards and add 1VP to the Wild Hunt pile; or gain an Estate, and if you do, take the VP from the pile.


Rocks: Treasure, $4, worth $1
$1 [big coin]
----------
"When you gain or trash this: If it's your Buy phase, gain a Silver onto your deck, otherwise gain a Silver to your hand.

Fortune: Treasure, $8[8D]
+1 Buy
Double your $ if you haven't yet this turn.
----------
When you gain this, gain a Gold per Gladiator you have in play.

Opulent Castle: Action - Victory - Castle, $7
Discard any number of Victory cards, revealed. +$2 per card discarded.
----------
3VP [big shield]


Donate: Event, [8D]
At end of turn, put all cards from your deck and discard pile into your hand, trash any number, shuffle your hand into your deck, then draw 5 cards.


Mountain Pass: Landmark
When you are the first player to gain a Province, at end of turn, each player bids once, up to 40D, ending with you. High bidder gets +8VP and takes the D they bid.

*************************************************************************************************

Nocturne:

Tracker: Action - Fate, $2
+$1
Receive a Boon.
----------
While you have this in play, when you gain a card, you may put that card onto your deck.
[Heirloom: Pouch]

Fool: Action - Fate, $3
If you aren't the player with Lost in the Woods: take it, take 3 Boons, and receive the Boons in any order.
[Heirloom: Lucky Coin]

Leprechaun: Action - Doom, $3
Gain a Gold. If you have exactly 7 cards in play, gain a Wish. Otherwise, receive a Hex.

Devil's Workshop: Night, $4
If the number of cards you've gained this turn is:
2+, gain an Imp;
1, gain a card costing up to $4;
0, gain a Gold.

Necromancer: Action, $4
Choose a face up, non-Duration Action card in the trash. Turn it face down for the turn, and play it, leaving it there.
----------
Setup: Put the 3 Zombies into the trash.

Idol: Treasure - Attack - Fate, $5, worth $2
$2 [big coin]
If you have an odd number of Idols in play (counting this), receive a Boon; otherwise, each other player gains a Curse.

Tormentor: Action - Attack - Doom, $5
+$2
If you have no other cards in play, gain an Imp. Otherwise, each other player receives the next Hex.


Cursed Gold: Treasure - Heirloom, $4, worth $3
$3 [big coin]
Gain a Curse.

Goat: Treasure - Heirloom, $2, worth $1
You may trash a card from your hand.

Haunted Mirror: Treasure, $0, worth $1
$1 [big coin]
----------
When you trash this, you may discard an Action card to gain a Ghost.

Lucky Coin: Treasure - Heirloom, $4, worth $1
$1 [big coin]
Gain a Silver.

Magic Lamp: Treasure - Heirloom, $0, worth $1
$1 [big coin]
If there are at least 6 cards that you have exactly 1 copy of in play (counting this), trash this. If you did, gain 3 Wishes.


The Swamp's Gift: Boon
Gain a Will-o'-Wisp.

*************************************************************************************************

Alchemy:

Philosopher's Stone: Treasure, $3[potion], worth $?
Count your deck and discard pile. +$1 per 5 cards total between them (round down).

*************************************************************************************************

Renaissance:

Citadel: Project
The first time you play an Action card during each of your turns, play it twice instead.

Innovation: Project
The first time you gain an Action card during each of your turns, you may play it.

Inventor: Action, $4
Gain a card costing up to $4, then cards cost $1 less this turn.

Canal: Project
During your turns, cards cost $1 less.

Scepter: Treasure, $5, worth $?
Choose one: +$2; or replay an Action card you played this turn that's still in play.

Exploration: Project
At the end of your Buy phase, if you didn't buy any cards during it, +1 Coffers and +1 Villager.

Lantern: Artifact
Border Guards you play reveal 3 cards and discard 2. (It takes all 3 being Actions to take the Horn.)

Add to Star Chart FAQ:

You can also look at any cards about to be drawn, that aren't being shuffled, while deciding.

Add to Innovation FAQ:

Innovation can't play a card unless it can physically put it into play.

* * *
« Last Edit: July 12, 2021, 11:33:26 am by Donald X. »
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LibraryAdventurer

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Re: Minor note about new printings
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2020, 08:02:27 am »
+3

- Noble Brigand has been rephrased so that it has a dividing line before the when-buy ability. To get the text to fit on the card, it says "do its attack"; this means, do the above-the-line part except for the +$1.

Noble Brigand: Action - Attack, $4
+$1
Each other player reveals the top 2 cards of their deck, trashes a revealed Silver or Gold you choose, discards the rest, and gains a Copper if they didn't reveal a Treasure. You gain the trashed cards.
----------
When you buy this, do its attack.
Why??

I like the other tweaks, but I don't see the point of this.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2020, 08:04:31 am by LibraryAdventurer »
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D782802859

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Re: Minor note about new printings
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2020, 08:34:23 am »
+5

Finally we are free of the prison of putting when you play this" on kingdom treasures. Great changes all around.
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gambit05

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Re: Minor note about new printings
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2020, 08:49:57 am »
+6

- Noble Brigand has been rephrased so that it has a dividing line before the when-buy ability. To get the text to fit on the card, it says "do its attack"; this means, do the above-the-line part except for the +$1.

Noble Brigand: Action - Attack, $4
+$1
Each other player reveals the top 2 cards of their deck, trashes a revealed Silver or Gold you choose, discards the rest, and gains a Copper if they didn't reveal a Treasure. You gain the trashed cards.
----------
When you buy this, do its attack.
Why??

I like the other tweaks, but I don't see the point of this.

It makes perfect sense. Like other on-gain/on-buy effects it is separated by a dividing line. Even more important, in our playing groups it happened more than once that we forgot this ability because it was hidden in a wall of text.
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AJD

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Re: Minor note about new printings
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2020, 12:48:15 pm »
+5

- Noble Brigand has been rephrased so that it has a dividing line before the when-buy ability. To get the text to fit on the card, it says "do its attack"; this means, do the above-the-line part except for the +$1.

Noble Brigand: Action - Attack, $4
+$1
Each other player reveals the top 2 cards of their deck, trashes a revealed Silver or Gold you choose, discards the rest, and gains a Copper if they didn't reveal a Treasure. You gain the trashed cards.
----------
When you buy this, do its attack.
Why??

I like the other tweaks, but I don't see the point of this.

It makes perfect sense. Like other on-gain/on-buy effects it is separated by a dividing line. Even more important, in our playing groups it happened more than once that we forgot this ability because it was hidden in a wall of text.

It's definitely going to cause more confusion about whether you can react with Moat etc. to buying Noble Brigand.
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gambit05

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Re: Minor note about new printings
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2020, 01:04:20 pm »
0

- Noble Brigand has been rephrased so that it has a dividing line before the when-buy ability. To get the text to fit on the card, it says "do its attack"; this means, do the above-the-line part except for the +$1.

Noble Brigand: Action - Attack, $4
+$1
Each other player reveals the top 2 cards of their deck, trashes a revealed Silver or Gold you choose, discards the rest, and gains a Copper if they didn't reveal a Treasure. You gain the trashed cards.
----------
When you buy this, do its attack.
Why??

I like the other tweaks, but I don't see the point of this.

It makes perfect sense. Like other on-gain/on-buy effects it is separated by a dividing line. Even more important, in our playing groups it happened more than once that we forgot this ability because it was hidden in a wall of text.

It's definitely going to cause more confusion about whether you can react with Moat etc. to buying Noble Brigand.

I don't think so, rather the opposite as playing the card and buying it is well separated now. Moat and similar cards can react only when an Attack card is played. Noble Brigand, when bought is still not played, it just follows its instructions (as it did before).
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GendoIkari

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Re: Minor note about new printings
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2020, 01:09:53 pm »
+8

- Noble Brigand has been rephrased so that it has a dividing line before the when-buy ability. To get the text to fit on the card, it says "do its attack"; this means, do the above-the-line part except for the +$1.

Noble Brigand: Action - Attack, $4
+$1
Each other player reveals the top 2 cards of their deck, trashes a revealed Silver or Gold you choose, discards the rest, and gains a Copper if they didn't reveal a Treasure. You gain the trashed cards.
----------
When you buy this, do its attack.
Why??

I like the other tweaks, but I don't see the point of this.

It makes perfect sense. Like other on-gain/on-buy effects it is separated by a dividing line. Even more important, in our playing groups it happened more than once that we forgot this ability because it was hidden in a wall of text.

It's definitely going to cause more confusion about whether you can react with Moat etc. to buying Noble Brigand.

I agree with this, and I also think it will cause more confusion about things like "can you react with Moat when a player plays Minion for +". It's been a good thing that "attack" in Dominion has been clearly defined as "a card that has the type 'attack'." It's not "a thing you do that hurts other players" or "an ability that feels like an attack". With this change, Noble Brigand suddenly introduces a new use/definition for the word "attack". A usage that players have to rely on intuition to know the meaning of.
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Re: Minor note about new printings
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2020, 01:38:11 pm »
+2

I don't see why it's any more or less confusing now than it used to be. It feels like the same problem.

Heikes Zweiter

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Re: Minor note about new printings
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2020, 02:04:33 pm »
+2

- Noble Brigand has been rephrased so that it has a dividing line before the when-buy ability. To get the text to fit on the card, it says "do its attack"; this means, do the above-the-line part except for the +$1.

Noble Brigand: Action - Attack, $4
+$1
Each other player reveals the top 2 cards of their deck, trashes a revealed Silver or Gold you choose, discards the rest, and gains a Copper if they didn't reveal a Treasure. You gain the trashed cards.
----------
When you buy this, do its attack.
Why??

I like the other tweaks, but I don't see the point of this.

It makes perfect sense. Like other on-gain/on-buy effects it is separated by a dividing line. Even more important, in our playing groups it happened more than once that we forgot this ability because it was hidden in a wall of text.

It's definitely going to cause more confusion about whether you can react with Moat etc. to buying Noble Brigand.

I agree with this, and I also think it will cause more confusion about things like "can you react with Moat when a player plays Minion for +". It's been a good thing that "attack" in Dominion has been clearly defined as "a card that has the type 'attack'." It's not "a thing you do that hurts other players" or "an ability that feels like an attack". With this change, Noble Brigand suddenly introduces a new use/definition for the word "attack". A usage that players have to rely on intuition to know the meaning of.

I have mixed feelings about "attack" in a card text. Of course everybody recognize what the "attack" of a card is. But until now "attack" was defined just as card type. The attack itself were some orders beginning with "each other player" and so by principle not different then orders for the player of the card. Especially in translation processes we have had troubles until the printer grasped the difference between type and orders other players have to do.

So will there be an additional rule about "attack"? Or will this problem get tackled by Noble Brigand's FAQ only?

Additional problem: The attack is the revealing and trashing by the other players. The gaining of the trashed cards is in seperate sentence and as such not recognizable as part of the attack.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2020, 02:16:57 pm by Heikes Zweiter »
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Re: Minor note about new printings
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2020, 02:29:29 pm »
+11

I don't see why it's any more or less confusing now than it used to be. It feels like the same problem.

Before, there was no in game mechanics usage to justify the idea that "the attack" refers to the part of the card that affects other players. This wording introduces that meaning of the word "attack" which is separate from the existing meaning of the word "attack" that is used in all other cases.
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Re: Minor note about new printings
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2020, 02:52:46 pm »
+5

It's been a good thing that "attack" in Dominion has been clearly defined as "a card that has the type 'attack'." It's not "a thing you do that hurts other players" or "an ability that feels like an attack".

Noble Brigand aside, I strongly disagree. It's been a bad thing that has caused lots of confusion. Ideally cards would have a part of their text that said "Attack: Each other player gains a Curse." or something like that. And then Moat could react to Ill-Gotten Gains, etc. Donald X. came up with this solution after the fact.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Minor note about new printings
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2020, 03:13:15 pm »
+2

It's been a good thing that "attack" in Dominion has been clearly defined as "a card that has the type 'attack'." It's not "a thing you do that hurts other players" or "an ability that feels like an attack".

Noble Brigand aside, I strongly disagree. It's been a bad thing that has caused lots of confusion. Ideally cards would have a part of their text that said "Attack: Each other player gains a Curse." or something like that. And then Moat could react to Ill-Gotten Gains, etc. Donald X. came up with this solution after the fact.

I agree... I don't think our 2 points are contradictory. By "it's been a good thing..." I meant within the context of how cards are worded/printed currently. It has caused confusion, but we've always been able to point to a clearly-defined rule to respond to that confusion. Now all of the sudden, there is no clear definition of "attack" in Dominion anymore. Sure it could have been different from the beginning where "attack" wasn't a type at all, but that's outside the scope of what I was talking about.
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Donald X.

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Re: Minor note about new printings
« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2020, 03:55:37 pm »
+6

Noble Brigand didn't follow the rule of having a dividing line to separate things that happen at another time. Now it follows that rule. Hooray!

Repeating the text of the attack below the line did not seem possible. So it says a cryptic "do its attack." In practice everyone will know what that means, and there's a rulebook. That's how I see it. Obv. a better fix would be to replace the card, but that isn't an option without an update pack, meaning replacing more cards. Maybe someday.

The cards are printed, we'll see how it goes! Good luck, Noble Brigand!
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Re: Minor note about new printings
« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2020, 04:28:26 pm »
+5

It could have been "when you buy this, play it" (which would have made it a tiny bit more powerful)... I suppose the issue with that is that you're playing the card before you actually gained it, which is also weird.
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Re: Minor note about new printings
« Reply #14 on: October 26, 2020, 04:59:29 pm »
0

It could have been "when you buy this, play it" (which would have made it a tiny bit more powerful)... I suppose the issue with that is that you're playing the card before you actually gained it, which is also weird.

I almost posted this. The extra + when you buy it probably wouldn't be a big increase in strength, and it would be a bit offset by the ability for people to reveal Moat, etc when you buy it. But playing the card before gaining it would be pretty bad, because I guess then the gain would just fail to move it to your discard pile, but you still do gain it, after you finish playing it? It would just be weird. And changing it to on-gain would definitely be a bigger power-level boost.
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Re: Minor note about new printings
« Reply #15 on: October 26, 2020, 05:54:15 pm »
+2

It could have been "when you buy this, play it" (which would have made it a tiny bit more powerful)... I suppose the issue with that is that you're playing the card before you actually gained it, which is also weird.

I almost posted this. The extra + when you buy it probably wouldn't be a big increase in strength, and it would be a bit offset by the ability for people to reveal Moat, etc when you buy it. But playing the card before gaining it would be pretty bad, because I guess then the gain would just fail to move it to your discard pile, but you still do gain it, after you finish playing it? It would just be weird. And changing it to on-gain would definitely be a bigger power-level boost.

You could play it, leaving it in the supply (until you gain it).
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Fragasnap

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Re: Minor note about new printings
« Reply #16 on: October 26, 2020, 09:09:19 pm »
0

I know this is a very late reply, and allthough i understand you looking for simplicity, i am not sure leaving out the "if he did" really would improve Soothsayer by that much to make it worth regretting stuff (assuming you regret doing it the way you did).

When blocking an attack by Moat or Lighthouse, it's clear (or at least pretty intuitive) that i don't have to gain a Curse. But what about the drawing? That doesn't seem like an attack. Moat says "unaffected by the attack", not "by the attack card". so does this mean i can draw a card? Council Room lets me draw one and there it isn't an attack. By adding "if he did" the point becomes moot, and i would argue it avoids confusion for new players who don't have that firm a grasp on what "attack" type means.
Well the fix would be for Moat to say "Attack card." "Card" is supposed to be implicit; there is no such thing as an Attack that is not an Attack card. But it could be explicit.
(Emphasis added.) (Asper was mistaken in the above quote: Moat has always said "Attack card.")
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Violet CLM

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Re: Minor note about new printings
« Reply #17 on: October 26, 2020, 10:56:44 pm »
+3

When you gain a card, you may reveal this from your hand, to exchange the card for a Silver.
No longer goes infinite when combined with Forum and a cost reducer. Probably for the best.
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Re: Minor note about new printings
« Reply #18 on: October 27, 2020, 04:48:44 pm »
0

Noble Brigand: "When you buy this, each other player... (as above)."

GendoIkari

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Re: Minor note about new printings
« Reply #19 on: October 27, 2020, 07:23:00 pm »
+3

I'm not seeing any advantage of any of the proposed solutions over the 1st edition wording. Sure it was the only action card that said “when you play this” before its on-play instructions. But now only card to use the word “attack” to mean something other than a card with the type attack. So either way it’s doing something that no other card does.
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Fragasnap

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Re: Minor note about new printings
« Reply #20 on: October 27, 2020, 08:12:09 pm »
+4

I'm not seeing any advantage of any of the proposed solutions over the 1st edition wording. Sure it was the only action card that said “when you play this” before its on-play instructions. But now only card to use the word “attack” to mean something other than a card with the type attack. So either way it’s doing something that no other card does.
I suggest that the strongest fix is to make more new cards that say "when you buy or play this" or even "when you gain or play this."
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Re: Minor note about new printings
« Reply #21 on: October 27, 2020, 11:43:49 pm »
0

I suggest that the strongest fix is to make more new cards that say "when you buy or play this" or even "when you gain or play this."

I doubt that wording will ever return, given that there are new solutions now (see Villa, Cavalry, and Night Watchman).

Quote from: Night Watchman's secret history
At first it said "when you gain or play this," then it switched to being gained to your hand after Billy [Sir Martin] suggested that.
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Re: Minor note about new printings
« Reply #22 on: October 28, 2020, 12:14:12 am »
+2

It's not like anyone buys noble brigand anyway  :P
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Donald X.

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Re: Minor note about new printings
« Reply #23 on: October 28, 2020, 01:10:25 am »
+3

It's not like anyone buys noble brigand anyway  :P
I know, right?

The original wording is no good. I can't live with it. And it's gone, treasure your collector's item first edition copies.

The new wording does something no other card does; it is not unique in that though, there are other cards that do something no other card does (for example, only Masquerade has the verb "pass," and it got a special separate rulebook explanation at the time, though now I'm happy just covering it in the card notes). I am cool with that. Maybe I should have sucked it up and had microtext on the card, or said "continued in rulebook." I went with something I knew everyone would understand; it's covered in the rulebook for the people who don't.

Again the cards are printed. And I mean no regrets so far.
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Re: Minor note about new printings
« Reply #24 on: October 28, 2020, 01:30:24 am »
0

Wait, I'm a bit confused now.  Is there actually a practical difference in Noble Brigand?  Does "do its attack" mean its on-gain effect is now moatable?  Or is this just a different wording for the same effect?
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Donald X.

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Re: Minor note about new printings
« Reply #25 on: October 28, 2020, 02:39:22 am »
+1

Wait, I'm a bit confused now.  Is there actually a practical difference in Noble Brigand?  Does "do its attack" mean its on-gain effect is now moatable?  Or is this just a different wording for the same effect?
Noble Brigand is not functionally different; it just has a different wording. You cannot Moat it when someone gains it; they didn't "play an Attack card."
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chipperMDW

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Re: Minor note about new printings
« Reply #26 on: October 28, 2020, 03:15:32 am »
+5

Noble Brigand: Action - Attack, $4
+$1
Buy this.
----------
When you buy this...
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Re: Minor note about new printings
« Reply #27 on: October 28, 2020, 09:11:55 am »
0

Noble Brigand: Action - Attack, $4
+$1
Buy this.
----------
When you buy this...
That's not functionally the same though; in particular it interacts weirdly with Haggler, and it seems like you lose $4 and a buy upon playing it because that's how buying this usually works. And it's not clear that it would be Moat-able, because the attack is not due to the on-play effect.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2020, 09:13:25 am by faust »
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GendoIkari

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Re: Minor note about new printings
« Reply #28 on: October 28, 2020, 10:18:40 am »
+4

Noble Brigand: Action - Attack, $4
+$1
Buy this.
----------
When you buy this...

I'm assuming the "buy this" was not intended to be serious, just because it sounds silly. But replacing "buy this" with "follow the when you buy instructions" actually could have worked.
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Re: Minor note about new printings
« Reply #29 on: October 28, 2020, 02:55:08 pm »
+1

I felt like adding "(Except nothing else sees you buy it and it's also an attack somehow)" would not achieve the goal of short text, resulting in the joke not making sense anymore.
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Re: Minor note about new printings
« Reply #30 on: October 28, 2020, 08:23:29 pm »
+1

Noble Brigand would have been fine with "when you buy this, you may play it". Getting $1 back on buy wouldn't make the card OP.
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Re: Minor note about new printings
« Reply #31 on: October 28, 2020, 09:29:03 pm »
0

That would be a functional change, though.
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Re: Minor note about new printings
« Reply #32 on: October 28, 2020, 10:59:37 pm »
+8

Why is everyone trying to come up with more alternate wordings? The card is being printed - it's not going to change.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Minor note about new printings
« Reply #33 on: October 28, 2020, 11:23:04 pm »
+1

Noble Brigand would have been fine with "when you buy this, you may play it". Getting $1 back on buy wouldn't make the card OP.

This was talked about earlier in the thread... the power change seems fine, but playing a card before you gain it (and then gaining it after) seems very weird.
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Re: Minor note about new printings
« Reply #34 on: October 29, 2020, 11:12:07 am »
+1

Noble Brigand would have been fine with "when you buy this, you may play it". Getting $1 back on buy wouldn't make the card OP.

This was talked about earlier in the thread... the power change seems fine, but playing a card before you gain it (and then gaining it after) seems very weird.

Is it that much more weird than some others things that already exist:
• Vassal, that plays (and puts into play) a card from Discard
• TR an Acting Troupe, which then plays a card that's in the trash.

So just seems like you would buy this, play it (moving it into the play area), then gain it, but it would stay in play area due to Lose Track / Stop Moving (I forget which name we like better these days) rule. Then get cleaned up like normal.

Alternatively, it could be (like Awaclus suggested):

Quote
When you buy this, you may play it from the Supply, leaving it there.

In this case, buy, play, but not move, then gain, as normal.

Actually, I think I prefer this alternative. :)

Why is everyone trying to come up with more alternate wordings? The card is being printed - it's not going to change.

I mean, what else are we going to do during this pandemic?  :P
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gambit05

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Re: Minor note about new printings
« Reply #35 on: October 29, 2020, 11:48:10 am »
0

Why is everyone trying to come up with more alternate wordings? The card is being printed - it's not going to change.

I think they try to convince Donald that some more work could be done on Noble Brigand for "whatever reason".

Obv. a better fix would be to replace the card, but that isn't an option without an update pack, meaning replacing more cards. Maybe someday.

Who knows?


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Re: Minor note about new printings
« Reply #36 on: October 29, 2020, 12:17:02 pm »
+3

Alternatively, it could be (like Awaclus suggested):

Quote
When you buy this, you may play it from the Supply, leaving it there.

In this case, buy, play, but not move, then gain, as normal.

Actually, I think I prefer this alternative. :)

That seems like it could be very confusing for casual players.  I think a lot of casual players would be confused by that, thinking "leaving it there" means the card doesn't go into their deck at all, since the idea of "buy" and "gain" as two separate events isn't really obvious.  So, they'd think "Wait, I pay for it and play it, but I don't get the card?"
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Donald X.

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Re: Minor note about new printings
« Reply #37 on: October 29, 2020, 04:22:18 pm »
+3

Is it that much more weird than some others things that already exist:
• Vassal, that plays (and puts into play) a card from Discard
• TR an Acting Troupe, which then plays a card that's in the trash.
That general argument is not a great direction; maybe all the weird things are bad. Prior to hearing about this Noble Brigand change, you could have listed Noble Brigand there.

For both of those cases, the problematic thing is playing a card without requiring that it be around to put into play. And that would have been fixed, along with the errata to Inheritance etc., but the player backlash made me reconsider.

I mean, what else are we going to do during this pandemic?  :P
For sure; if it's a conversation people are enjoying, I don't need to stop it. Maybe someday it will be relevant to me phrasing some other card.

The "when you buy this, play it" direction sure isn't going anywhere. For that matter new cards are avoiding "when you buy this" period, as casual players do not sufficiently distinguish it from "when you gain this." Noble Brigand is when-buy because when-gain caused you to have to resolve some stuff in slow-mo (I play Jester, it hits Noble Brigand, who should gain this, but in the meantime other players have revealed their top cards). If I had to do the effect now, it would be like Villa: gained to hand, +1 Action, return to your action phase, and there you go, you can play it if you want to.
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Re: Minor note about new printings
« Reply #38 on: October 31, 2020, 09:50:53 am »
+2

In the OP Hoard is listed as a $5 cost. Is that a typo?
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Re: Minor note about new printings
« Reply #39 on: October 31, 2020, 12:13:18 pm »
+2

My own least-bad suggestion for Noble Brigand:

Noble Brigand: Action - Attack, $4
+$1
Steal: each other player reveals the top 2 cards of their deck, trashes a revealed Silver or Gold you choose, discards the rest, and gains a Copper if they didn't reveal a Treasure. You gain the trashed cards.
----------
When you buy this, use it to Steal.
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Donald X.

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Re: Minor note about new printings
« Reply #40 on: October 31, 2020, 02:44:13 pm »
0

In the OP Hoard is listed as a $5 cost. Is that a typo?
Yes, fixed.
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Seprix

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Re: Minor note about new printings
« Reply #41 on: November 01, 2020, 12:38:00 pm »
+1

- Noble Brigand has been rephrased so that it has a dividing line before the when-buy ability. To get the text to fit on the card, it says "do its attack"; this means, do the above-the-line part except for the +$1.

Noble Brigand: Action - Attack, $4
+$1
Each other player reveals the top 2 cards of their deck, trashes a revealed Silver or Gold you choose, discards the rest, and gains a Copper if they didn't reveal a Treasure. You gain the trashed cards.
----------
When you buy this, do its attack.
Why??

I like the other tweaks, but I don't see the point of this.

It makes perfect sense. Like other on-gain/on-buy effects it is separated by a dividing line. Even more important, in our playing groups it happened more than once that we forgot this ability because it was hidden in a wall of text.

It's definitely going to cause more confusion about whether you can react with Moat etc. to buying Noble Brigand.

Just remind them that it's when you play an attack card. You're not playing it when you gain it.
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joefarebrother

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Re: Minor note about new printings
« Reply #42 on: November 01, 2020, 02:23:27 pm »
+5

Noble Brigand: Action - Attack, $4
+$1
Buy this.
----------
When you buy this...
That's not functionally the same though; in particular it interacts weirdly with Haggler, and it seems like you lose $4 and a buy upon playing it because that's how buying this usually works. And it's not clear that it would be Moat-able, because the attack is not due to the on-play effect.

Black Market is proof that losing a buy is not an intrinsic part of buying something, it's just what you do to buy things in the buy phase - much like losing an action is not an intrinsic part of playing an action.
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pst

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Re: Minor note about new printings
« Reply #43 on: November 01, 2020, 03:40:00 pm »
+1

Functional changes:
- Trader's reaction is now a when-gain rather than a when-would-gain; in most situations this isn't different, but it simplifies some confusing situations. This means that now any when-gain abilities of the gained card will still work, even if you exchange it for a Silver.

Also the effect in the new reaction text is that you "exchange" the card for Silver, whereas earlier it was "to instead gain a Silver". (Will buyers of Hinterlands get to know about what "exchange" means?). So it seems like you don't gain that Silver you get, so can't use when-gain abilities on that.


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Re: Minor note about new printings
« Reply #44 on: November 01, 2020, 05:31:11 pm »
+1

Also the effect in the new reaction text is that you "exchange" the card for Silver, whereas earlier it was "to instead gain a Silver". (Will buyers of Hinterlands get to know about what "exchange" means?). So it seems like you don't gain that Silver you get, so can't use when-gain abilities on that.

Yes, exchanging is not gaining, this is explained in the rulebooks for the sets with exchanging. (Donald stated in another thread that the rulebook notes on Trader will explain exchanging.)

phyphor

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Re: Minor note about new printings
« Reply #45 on: November 01, 2020, 06:32:42 pm »
0

When you gain a card, you may reveal this from your hand, to exchange the card for a Silver.
No longer goes infinite when combined with Forum and a cost reducer. Probably for the best.

It does require a cost reducer (e.g. Highway), a card that gives benefit on buy (e.g. Goons), as well as Forum and Trader, being allowed to get sufficient cost-reducers and get the right cards in hand to pull off. It's not exactly very common.

It does also mean you can't, for example, top deck the silver with Watchtower, and various other changes.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Minor note about new printings
« Reply #46 on: November 01, 2020, 10:25:54 pm »
0

Noble Brigand: Action - Attack, $4
+$1
Buy this.
----------
When you buy this...
That's not functionally the same though; in particular it interacts weirdly with Haggler, and it seems like you lose $4 and a buy upon playing it because that's how buying this usually works. And it's not clear that it would be Moat-able, because the attack is not due to the on-play effect.

Black Market is proof that losing a buy is not an intrinsic part of buying something, it's just what you do to buy things in the buy phase - much like losing an action is not an intrinsic part of playing an action.

This is a good point, but it’s still true that the wording would cause that confusion with people being unsure about that.
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Re: Minor note about new printings
« Reply #47 on: November 02, 2020, 05:57:17 am »
0

Noble Brigand: Action - Attack, $4
+$1
Buy this.
----------
When you buy this...
That's not functionally the same though; in particular it interacts weirdly with Haggler, and it seems like you lose $4 and a buy upon playing it because that's how buying this usually works. And it's not clear that it would be Moat-able, because the attack is not due to the on-play effect.

In addition to the Haggler weirdness (when-buy) there's also the problem that buying leads to gaining - and that is intrinsic. The question is, can you gain a card that is already yours? If so, you would play Noble Brigand, then buy it, then gain it, putting it in your discard pile. And then when-gain stuff would trigger, like Innovation or  Cargo Ship!

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Re: Minor note about new printings
« Reply #48 on: November 02, 2020, 06:06:35 am »
+2

I think "buy this" as part of an effect is clearly not a good idea.

josqvin

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Re: Minor note about new printings
« Reply #49 on: November 02, 2020, 11:24:16 am »
0

I don't understand why the infinite loop of trader/forum/cost reduction no longer works? The forum still goes back into the pile and you still get the buy back.
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Mic Qsenoch

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Re: Minor note about new printings
« Reply #50 on: November 02, 2020, 11:43:02 am »
+3

I don't understand why the infinite loop of trader/forum/cost reduction no longer works? The forum still goes back into the pile and you still get the buy back.

You can't Exchange once the Silver pile is empty, so now you can only do it as many times as there are Silver remaining.
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Re: Minor note about new printings
« Reply #51 on: November 03, 2020, 09:43:11 am »
+3

One of the issues with the old wording on Noble Brigand is that the when-buy trigger is part of the on-play text, and the on-play text should be activated each time you play the card, while text under the line is always active.  "When you do X" phrases in the on-play text usually set up events that will be triggered in the future, such as the "when you gain a card" event in Cargo Ship.  The "When you play this" gets resolved immediately, as it does with treasures that use that wording, but there's a remaining "When you buy this" in the on-play text.  So there's a potential interpretation that says that every time you play a Noble Brigand, you're setting up a future "when you buy this" event that will be triggered if you ever bought the card.

Now ordinarily you can't buy a card you are already playing, but suppose that you've used Band of Misfits to play the top Noble Brigand in the pile multiple times this turn.  If you then buy that top Noble Brigand later in the turn, then under one possible interpretation, you might get to do the attack multiple times.  Now, are there people who are interpreting it that way?  I dont know.  Probably not, but the text was ambiguous and didn't follow the convention used in the rest of the game.

In the new version, the ambiguity comes from "What parts count as the attack?", and that's a lot easier to state in the FAQ than a clarification for what I wrote above.
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Re: Minor note about new printings
« Reply #52 on: November 03, 2020, 12:35:45 pm »
+1

One of the issues with the old wording on Noble Brigand is that the when-buy trigger is part of the on-play text, and the on-play text should be activated each time you play the card, while text under the line is always active.  "When you do X" phrases in the on-play text usually set up events that will be triggered in the future, such as the "when you gain a card" event in Cargo Ship.  The "When you play this" gets resolved immediately, as it does with treasures that use that wording, but there's a remaining "When you buy this" in the on-play text.  So there's a potential interpretation that says that every time you play a Noble Brigand, you're setting up a future "when you buy this" event that will be triggered if you ever bought the card.

Now ordinarily you can't buy a card you are already playing, but suppose that you've used Band of Misfits to play the top Noble Brigand in the pile multiple times this turn.  If you then buy that top Noble Brigand later in the turn, then under one possible interpretation, you might get to do the attack multiple times.  Now, are there people who are interpreting it that way?  I dont know.  Probably not, but the text was ambiguous and didn't follow the convention used in the rest of the game.

In the new version, the ambiguity comes from "What parts count as the attack?", and that's a lot easier to state in the FAQ than a clarification for what I wrote above.

That's not really true. The play ability is whatever follows "when you play this", and doesn't include "when you buy this":

"When you play this" (certain Treasures) - what follows is the play ability.
"When you buy this" (Mint, Farmland...) - what follows is the when-buy ability.
"When you play or buy this" - what follows is the play ability and the when-buy ability.

If you interpret the play ability to include "when you buy this", then it should also include "when you play this", making it an immediate infinite loop, and all similarly phrased Treasures too. Not exactly intuitive or plausable.

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Re: Minor note about new printings
« Reply #53 on: November 03, 2020, 05:51:51 pm »
+1

One of the issues with the old wording on Noble Brigand is that the when-buy trigger is part of the on-play text, and the on-play text should be activated each time you play the card, while text under the line is always active.  "When you do X" phrases in the on-play text usually set up events that will be triggered in the future, such as the "when you gain a card" event in Cargo Ship.  The "When you play this" gets resolved immediately, as it does with treasures that use that wording, but there's a remaining "When you buy this" in the on-play text.  So there's a potential interpretation that says that every time you play a Noble Brigand, you're setting up a future "when you buy this" event that will be triggered if you ever bought the card.

Now ordinarily you can't buy a card you are already playing, but suppose that you've used Band of Misfits to play the top Noble Brigand in the pile multiple times this turn.  If you then buy that top Noble Brigand later in the turn, then under one possible interpretation, you might get to do the attack multiple times.  Now, are there people who are interpreting it that way?  I dont know.  Probably not, but the text was ambiguous and didn't follow the convention used in the rest of the game.

In the new version, the ambiguity comes from "What parts count as the attack?", and that's a lot easier to state in the FAQ than a clarification for what I wrote above.

That's not really true. The play ability is whatever follows "when you play this", and doesn't include "when you buy this":

"When you play this" (certain Treasures) - what follows is the play ability.
"When you buy this" (Mint, Farmland...) - what follows is the when-buy ability.
"When you play or buy this" - what follows is the play ability and the when-buy ability.

If you interpret the play ability to include "when you buy this", then it should also include "when you play this", making it an immediate infinite loop, and all similarly phrased Treasures too. Not exactly intuitive or plausable.

He's talking about interpreting the card in the same way you interpret all other action cards; that when you play the card, you do everything it says. So a card that says "at the start of your next turn" sets up a future event to trigger at a specific time, and in the same way "when you play or buy this" would also set up a future event to trigger at a specific time.

It wouldn't cause an infinite loop, because the actual instruction you follow immediately would only be to set up a trigger. Like a Duration card that did nothing at all when you played it, and only had a "at the start of next turn" part. But the "future event" in this case would happen basically immediately, because you did just play the card. So you would follow the "when you play this" instructions because "when you play this" has now triggered. But in the same way, playing the card would also set up a "when you buy this" trigger... if you interpreted the card the same way that other actions are interpreted, then "when you buy this" is an instruction you only follow when you play the card.
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Re: Minor note about new printings
« Reply #54 on: November 03, 2020, 07:15:13 pm »
+2

I understood what he meant. But I see that I drew the wrong conclusion about the infinite loop. What would happen is that you activate a "when you play this" ability, and it would behave in the same way as he describes the when-buy ability behaving. (Neither say "next time", they say "when" which means "each time".) It would be triggered each time you play the card for the rest of the game. So the first time you play it, it would trigger. The next time you play it, you would activate another ability, and both would trigger, so you would do the attack twice. Next time, three times, etc. You would have to somehow track each copy though, which is impossible, making the card's instructions impossible to follow. The same would be true of the when-buy ability by the way, if you or any player buys it again (after you return it with Ambassador).

By this interpretation, all Treasures that say "when you play this" would also be impossible to play.

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Re: Minor note about new printings
« Reply #55 on: January 25, 2021, 03:29:39 pm »
+1

Is there any way for me to obtain the changed cards without re-buying these expansions?   I like keeping my dominion collection current - but it seems wasteful to rebuy the whole expansion
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Re: Minor note about new printings
« Reply #56 on: January 25, 2021, 04:41:58 pm »
+1

Am I the only one wondering why trashing a yellow Curse for your opponents is considered an attack?
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Re: Minor note about new printings
« Reply #57 on: January 26, 2021, 12:10:10 pm »
+3

Is there any way for me to obtain the changed cards without re-buying these expansions?   I like keeping my dominion collection current - but it seems wasteful to rebuy the whole expansion
Some more copies of the update packs are being printed. I don't have dates or anything more there. The update packs are just the new cards. The intention is not to keep them in print, as in the long run, everyone should have them who wanted them, and people buying the new editions don't need them.
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Re: Minor note about new printings
« Reply #58 on: July 12, 2021, 11:34:09 am »
+1

OP updated with more wording tweaks.
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Re: Minor note about new printings
« Reply #59 on: July 14, 2021, 02:49:33 pm »
0

Am I the only one wondering why trashing a yellow Curse for your opponents is considered an attack?

I'm confused.  Which side of the "how the hell s a masquerade not an attack" debate are you on...
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Re: Minor note about new printings
« Reply #60 on: July 19, 2021, 07:07:43 am »
+1

Add to Star Chart FAQ:

You can also look at any cards about to be drawn, that aren't being shuffled, while deciding.
Just noticed this little piece. Do i interpret correctly SC now has same handling as Stash (revised version). So when shuffling i may look at remaining deck. E.g. at end of turn for drawing next hand when there are only e.g 3 cards in deck, then i may look through them, then look through discard and choose which card goes on top of shuffeled cards based on knowledge of what the 3 cards of old deck are?
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Re: Minor note about new printings
« Reply #61 on: July 19, 2021, 11:37:10 am »
0

Add to Star Chart FAQ:

You can also look at any cards about to be drawn, that aren't being shuffled, while deciding.
Just noticed this little piece. Do i interpret correctly SC now has same handling as Stash (revised version). So when shuffling i may look at remaining deck. E.g. at end of turn for drawing next hand when there are only e.g 3 cards in deck, then i may look through them, then look through discard and choose which card goes on top of shuffeled cards based on knowledge of what the 3 cards of old deck are?
If there are 3 cards in your deck, you can look at them, then look through your discard pile and choose which card to put on top.
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Re: Minor note about new printings
« Reply #62 on: July 19, 2021, 11:55:52 am »
0

Add to Star Chart FAQ:

You can also look at any cards about to be drawn, that aren't being shuffled, while deciding.
Just noticed this little piece. Do i interpret correctly SC now has same handling as Stash (revised version). So when shuffling i may look at remaining deck. E.g. at end of turn for drawing next hand when there are only e.g 3 cards in deck, then i may look through them, then look through discard and choose which card goes on top of shuffeled cards based on knowledge of what the 3 cards of old deck are?

If there are 3 cards in your deck, you can look at them, then look through your discard pile and choose which card to put on top.

So that means that Star Chart also gets errata like Stash, to add the phrase "you may look through your remaining deck"?

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Re: Minor note about new printings
« Reply #63 on: July 19, 2021, 02:57:34 pm »
0

Add to Star Chart FAQ:

You can also look at any cards about to be drawn, that aren't being shuffled, while deciding.
Just noticed this little piece. Do i interpret correctly SC now has same handling as Stash (revised version). So when shuffling i may look at remaining deck. E.g. at end of turn for drawing next hand when there are only e.g 3 cards in deck, then i may look through them, then look through discard and choose which card goes on top of shuffeled cards based on knowledge of what the 3 cards of old deck are?

If there are 3 cards in your deck, you can look at them, then look through your discard pile and choose which card to put on top.

So that means that Star Chart also gets errata like Stash, to add the phrase "you may look through your remaining deck"?

I could be wrong, but I believe the opposite is true. Stash should no longer need that clause.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Minor note about new printings
« Reply #64 on: July 19, 2021, 03:03:22 pm »
+1

Add to Star Chart FAQ:

You can also look at any cards about to be drawn, that aren't being shuffled, while deciding.
Just noticed this little piece. Do i interpret correctly SC now has same handling as Stash (revised version). So when shuffling i may look at remaining deck. E.g. at end of turn for drawing next hand when there are only e.g 3 cards in deck, then i may look through them, then look through discard and choose which card goes on top of shuffeled cards based on knowledge of what the 3 cards of old deck are?

If there are 3 cards in your deck, you can look at them, then look through your discard pile and choose which card to put on top.

So that means that Star Chart also gets errata like Stash, to add the phrase "you may look through your remaining deck"?

I could be wrong, but I believe the opposite is true. Stash should no longer need that clause.

Other than the FAQ on Star Chart, is there a new rule written somewhere that explains this? Seems like it would require some weird wording to get it to work correctly.

*Edit* Unless it's just universally true now that you can look at your remaining cards whenever you shuffle; even if you aren't about to decide something like Stash or Star Chart.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2021, 03:23:58 pm by GendoIkari »
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Re: Minor note about new printings
« Reply #65 on: July 19, 2021, 05:00:19 pm »
0

*Edit* Unless it's just universally true now that you can look at your remaining cards whenever you shuffle; even if you aren't about to decide something like Stash or Star Chart.

I think this is the case, but again, don't hold me to that.
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Re: Minor note about new printings
« Reply #66 on: July 19, 2021, 06:28:18 pm »
0

Would this change eliminate all differences between the old/original shuffle rule and the second edition shuffle rule? I can’t remember if there was anything other than Star Chart that made it different.

At least 2 years ago, Star Chart was the only thing: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19853
« Last Edit: July 19, 2021, 06:31:06 pm by GendoIkari »
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Re: Minor note about new printings
« Reply #67 on: July 25, 2021, 06:27:51 am »
+1

*Edit* Unless it's just universally true now that you can look at your remaining cards whenever you shuffle; even if you aren't about to decide something like Stash or Star Chart.

I think this is the case, but again, don't hold me to that.

Donald, can you confirm this?

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Re: Minor note about new printings
« Reply #68 on: July 25, 2021, 12:06:42 pm »
+3

*Edit* Unless it's just universally true now that you can look at your remaining cards whenever you shuffle; even if you aren't about to decide something like Stash or Star Chart.

I think this is the case, but again, don't hold me to that.

Donald, can you confirm this?
Yes, you can just look at those cards, though it doesn't matter without an effect like Star Chart.
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Re: Minor note about new printings
« Reply #69 on: July 25, 2021, 12:25:09 pm »
+1

Yes, you can just look at those cards, though it doesn't matter without an effect like Star Chart.

So with this new rule, I guess Stash will drop "you may look through your remaining deck"? It's misleading in certain situations anyway, namely when you shuffle your deck (with Inn etc.).

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Re: Minor note about new printings
« Reply #70 on: July 26, 2021, 11:41:57 am »
+3

So with this new rule, I guess Stash will drop "you may look through your remaining deck"? It's misleading in certain situations anyway, namely when you shuffle your deck (with Inn etc.).
I haven't looked at Stash's wording; when the promo cards are next being reprinted I'll look at it, but it sounds like it can get simpler.
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Re: Minor note about new printings
« Reply #71 on: August 25, 2021, 04:28:33 am »
0

Some more copies of the update packs are being printed. I don't have dates or anything more there. The update packs are just the new cards. The intention is not to keep them in print, as in the long run, everyone should have them who wanted them, and people buying the new editions don't need them.

Someone on Reddit highlighted that the German version of Dominion: Empires is being reprinted labelled as a second edition – and it comes without metal VP coins, instead having cardboard chits. https://www.amazon.de/Rio-Grande-Games-22501422-Erweiterung-Empires/dp/B096BNW84H#immersive-view_1629887704237

Is this change coming for  all the future reprints of Empires  in the English language too? If so, are the other expansions going to receive the same treatment?
« Last Edit: August 25, 2021, 06:36:20 am by TMDaines »
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Re: Minor note about new printings
« Reply #72 on: August 25, 2021, 11:02:06 am »
+3

There are no plans to abandon the metal in the English printings.
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Re: Minor note about new printings
« Reply #73 on: August 25, 2021, 05:34:10 pm »
0

That’s good to hear!
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Re: Minor note about new printings
« Reply #74 on: August 26, 2021, 10:48:04 am »
+1

If memory serves, the German version of Empires always used cardboard. It was too expensive to produce otherwise.
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Re: Minor note about new printings
« Reply #75 on: August 26, 2021, 12:15:07 pm »
+1

If memory serves, the German version of Empires always used cardboard. It was too expensive to produce otherwise.

This in incorrect, they changed it in the last printing.

I am quite happy that I own the original metal tokens, the new ones feel really cheap.
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