Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: [1]

Author Topic: Is Library a sifter?  (Read 2622 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Jonatan Djurachkovitch

  • Moneylender
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 163
  • Shuffle iT Username: Jonis20004
  • Respect: +95
    • View Profile
Is Library a sifter?
« on: September 30, 2020, 04:39:43 am »
0

I just read the wiki on sifters and I realized that Library isn't included in the cards list. I absolutely think that it is a sifter, letting you skip dead Action cards when drawing. So why isn't it included?
Logged

D782802859

  • Apprentice
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 291
  • Respect: +381
    • View Profile
Re: Is Library a sifter?
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2020, 06:09:49 am »
+2

It doesn't give you enough control over what you draw to really qualify since you can only skip actions.
Logged

faust

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3376
  • Shuffle iT Username: faust
  • Respect: +5142
    • View Profile
Re: Is Library a sifter?
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2020, 06:28:56 am »
+2

I'd say it's a sifter. Not super powerful in that regard, but frequently enough in a Library engine you want to set aside some excess terminals that you draw. But it's not really useful to think in these strict categories anyways. There are many deck in which Vagrant acts as a sifter even though it doesn't technically discard any cards.

Edit: Just saw that the wiki has a separate entry for digging cards. Library is probably more of a digger than it is a sifter then. (But it's not included on that list either.)
« Last Edit: September 30, 2020, 06:32:08 am by faust »
Logged
You say the ocean's rising, like I give a shit
You say the whole world's ending, honey it already did

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11808
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (´。• ω •。`)
  • Respect: +12846
    • View Profile
    • Birds of Necama
Re: Is Library a sifter?
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2020, 07:57:10 am »
+3

It's the opposite of a sifter, it lets you skip good cards to find your bad cards.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's Creative Commons albums for free

Jonatan Djurachkovitch

  • Moneylender
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 163
  • Shuffle iT Username: Jonis20004
  • Respect: +95
    • View Profile
Re: Is Library a sifter?
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2020, 09:32:02 am »
+2

It's the opposite of a sifter, it lets you skip good cards to find your bad cards.
Depends on what deck you're building, and the presence of splitters.
Logged

Co0kieL0rd

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 743
  • Respect: +863
    • View Profile
Re: Is Library a sifter?
« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2020, 03:46:35 am »
0

It's the opposite of a sifter, it lets you skip good cards to find your bad cards.
Depends on what deck you're building, and the presence of splitters.

Even if you're building a bad deck, Library still doesn't skip Victory cards and Curses. Trying to build a draw-to-x-engine on the basis of Library sounds like a big mistake.

It doesn't feel like a sifter to me because you have so little control. And the term "digger" is like "tutor" to me, which isn't what Library does either.
Logged
Check out my fan cards!
Dominion: Seasons - a small set Asper and I made that revolves around a unique and original mechanic
Roots and Renewal - this set is about interacting with the Supply and manipulating your opening turns
Flash cards - trying out a new concept

silverspawn

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5300
  • Shuffle iT Username: sty.silver
  • Respect: +3188
    • View Profile
Re: Is Library a sifter?
« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2020, 05:45:14 am »
0

As long as we're clear that the question of whether or not Library is a sifter has no bearing whatsoever on what Library is doing or how strong it is

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11808
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (´。• ω •。`)
  • Respect: +12846
    • View Profile
    • Birds of Necama
Re: Is Library a sifter?
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2020, 06:04:48 am »
0

Even if you're building a bad deck, Library still doesn't skip Victory cards and Curses. Trying to build a draw-to-x-engine on the basis of Library sounds like a big mistake.

It's not a mistake, it works fine. You just don't ever use the skipping ability in a draw-to-x-engine.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's Creative Commons albums for free

silverspawn

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5300
  • Shuffle iT Username: sty.silver
  • Respect: +3188
    • View Profile
Re: Is Library a sifter?
« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2020, 06:27:12 am »
+6

Even if you're building a bad deck, Library still doesn't skip Victory cards and Curses. Trying to build a draw-to-x-engine on the basis of Library sounds like a big mistake.

It's not a mistake, it works fine. You just don't ever use the skipping ability in a draw-to-x-engine.

You certainly do. In the extreme, if you have a deck of only action cards, Library gives the the ability to choose precisely the cards you want from your entire deck.

faust

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3376
  • Shuffle iT Username: faust
  • Respect: +5142
    • View Profile
Re: Is Library a sifter?
« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2020, 06:41:42 am »
+2

Even if you're building a bad deck, Library still doesn't skip Victory cards and Curses. Trying to build a draw-to-x-engine on the basis of Library sounds like a big mistake.

It's not a mistake, it works fine. You just don't ever use the skipping ability in a draw-to-x-engine.

You certainly do. In the extreme, if you have a deck of only action cards, Library gives the the ability to choose precisely the cards you want from your entire deck.
Specifically, you can avoid having 2 Libraries in hand, which comes up quite often in an engine centering on Library.
Logged
You say the ocean's rising, like I give a shit
You say the whole world's ending, honey it already did

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11808
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (´。• ω •。`)
  • Respect: +12846
    • View Profile
    • Birds of Necama
Re: Is Library a sifter?
« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2020, 08:51:33 am »
0

Even if you're building a bad deck, Library still doesn't skip Victory cards and Curses. Trying to build a draw-to-x-engine on the basis of Library sounds like a big mistake.

It's not a mistake, it works fine. You just don't ever use the skipping ability in a draw-to-x-engine.

You certainly do. In the extreme, if you have a deck of only action cards, Library gives the the ability to choose precisely the cards you want from your entire deck.

You're also drawing your entire deck so it almost certainly doesn't matter.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's Creative Commons albums for free

AJD

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3292
  • Shuffle iT Username: AJD
  • Respect: +4434
    • View Profile
Re: Is Library a sifter?
« Reply #11 on: October 01, 2020, 10:28:58 am »
0

Even if you're building a bad deck, Library still doesn't skip Victory cards and Curses. Trying to build a draw-to-x-engine on the basis of Library sounds like a big mistake.

It's not a mistake, it works fine. You just don't ever use the skipping ability in a draw-to-x-engine.

You certainly do. In the extreme, if you have a deck of only action cards, Library gives the the ability to choose precisely the cards you want from your entire deck.

You're also drawing your entire deck so it almost certainly doesn't matter.

You're not drawing your entire deck at once.
Logged

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11808
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (´。• ω •。`)
  • Respect: +12846
    • View Profile
    • Birds of Necama
Re: Is Library a sifter?
« Reply #12 on: October 01, 2020, 02:11:39 pm »
0

Even if you're building a bad deck, Library still doesn't skip Victory cards and Curses. Trying to build a draw-to-x-engine on the basis of Library sounds like a big mistake.

It's not a mistake, it works fine. You just don't ever use the skipping ability in a draw-to-x-engine.

You certainly do. In the extreme, if you have a deck of only action cards, Library gives the the ability to choose precisely the cards you want from your entire deck.

You're also drawing your entire deck so it almost certainly doesn't matter.

You're not drawing your entire deck at once.

Sure, but there aren't very many ways to draw a hand you aren't happy with in a deck that only contains Action cards, unless it's full of Ruins I guess.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's Creative Commons albums for free

jomini

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1060
  • Respect: +766
    • View Profile
Re: Is Library a sifter?
« Reply #13 on: October 01, 2020, 02:37:09 pm »
+1

Ehh I have used the sifting quite often. First there are the obvious combos: Bustling village, Swashbuckler (if this or Lib came out of the BM deck), Mountain village and the like.

Then there is the utility of balancing your draw. Mv is an extreme example of this, but in general, you want to draw villages before terminal payload. With Mv you can use all of your draw slots to hit Mv and then pull payload out of the trash. Two Libs can draw 14 cards which lets you hit say 6 terminal payloads (e.g. Gladiator, Animal Fair, Count, Goons) and this is much more likely if you don't have to waste say 2 of your first 4 draw slots on payload you might be able to use. I will routinely skip my terminals to hit my villages on the first run through and then draw all of them on the second. For some setups this is just crazy more efficient (e.g. Native village is much more valuable if you can play 6 in a row than having to use 1/2 to take something off the mat or risk stranding one of your villages for the turn). And of course there are things like Golem/non-terminal (e.g. Golem/Candlestick maker) where you pretty much always want to dump non-Golems to play more Golems. And sometimes your "village" needs a specific combo (e.g. Horse + Procession) and you benefit from fishing for one component over the other.

Then there are combos were order matters. Skipping your Masquerade to draw & play the Militia first is often a far superior move. As are things like getting down Priests before other trashers (e.g. Priest/Fortress/Junk dealer), Liveries before gainers (e.g. Iw/Livery), or attacks before Soldiers.

Then there is the whole defense against useless actions. Ruins for instance. But also actions not worth playing any more (e.g. Chapel) or too dangerous to play (e.g. Hermit with piles approaching).

This is all sifting in some fashion. And I do something from this list most every game (the most common being flipping a terminal in hopes of hitting a village I need to play the terminals already in hand).

If you really want the value of the sifting to be clear, think of a Village/Goons/Donate/Advance setup, you will have no non-actions, treasure is pretty much useless for bootstrapping, and you want lots of efficient draw: would you take Scholar or Lib for your draw? The sifting makes this no contest for me.
Logged

spineflu

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1365
  • Shuffle iT Username: spineflu
  • Head Empty, Heart Worms, Can't Lose
  • Respect: +1349
    • View Profile
    • my instagram, where i paint things
Re: Is Library a sifter?
« Reply #14 on: October 02, 2020, 06:07:45 am »
0

It's the opposite of a sifter, it lets you skip good cards to find your bad cards.

yeah its a scout variant
Logged

Honkeyfresh

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 617
  • DSF lowest ratio upvotes-posts 14 yrs & counting
  • Respect: +228
    • View Profile
Re: Is Library a sifter?
« Reply #15 on: October 24, 2020, 05:07:09 pm »
0

It's the opposite of a sifter, it lets you skip good cards to find your bad cards.
Depends on what deck you're building, and the presence of splitters.

Even if you're building a bad deck, Library still doesn't skip Victory cards and Curses. Trying to build a draw-to-x-engine on the basis of Library sounds like a big mistake.

It doesn't feel like a sifter to me because you have so little control. And the term "digger" is like "tutor" to me, which isn't what Library does either.

unless Villa or Cavalry is on the board
Logged
"Rap game Julio Franco, Chuck Norris, Texas Ranger/ Ice on my fingers look like I slap-boxed a penguin." -- Riff Raff Proverbs 4:20

"Sometimes I say some things people may think are just outlandish, but I'm going to have the last laugh." -- Riff Raff  Exodus 6:66
Pages: [1]
 

Page created in 0.063 seconds with 21 queries.