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Author Topic: Set Expansion Contest  (Read 41026 times)

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Timinou

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #475 on: January 18, 2021, 04:28:24 pm »
+2

Thanks, grrgrrgrr!  I think there were a lot of cool and interesting submissions this week.

With regards to the future of this competition, I like the suggestion of doing another round to design a Promo.  After that, we could keep this going for crossovers between two expansions.
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Holger

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #476 on: January 18, 2021, 04:57:38 pm »
+1

Way of the Rabit (Way)
Trash this. Gain two cheaper Action cards.

This obviously should be "Return to the supply" or it will have a bad interaction with Fortress. Disregarding that, this seems to be rather weak. It needs to have an Action that outlives its usefulness AND cheaper spammable cards to be of any use. And even then, there needs to be the opportunity cost to play this before the spammable actions run out. This will definitely have its uses, but Way of the Butterfly generally does the exchanging part better.
Why spammable? The two cards gained can be different. I'd gladly use this both on a Witch after the curses are out, and to trash a Chapel for nothing once it's done its job.
But I agree that Way of the Butterfly is usually better.
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X-tra

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #477 on: January 18, 2021, 05:12:49 pm »
0

Likewise, I don't think it obviously should say "return" instead of "trash" just because of Fortress, a card who's supposed to benefit from being trashed. Otherwise, with that mindset, Fortress is obviously broken with stuff like Apprentice. Still, I agree that the card should be returned to its pile, if only to match what other Ways such as Butterfly and Horse do as well. No other Ways self-trash, and while it's probably not illegal to have one attempting to do so, I prefer not to steer too much away from pre-existing concepts.

Anyway, a round of promo cards could be really fun. Time to unleash the wacky ideas and go nuts. :)
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segura

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #478 on: January 19, 2021, 01:56:46 am »
+2

Compared to other Fortress combo, this is relatively weak. There are plenty of board with no worthwhile $2s or $3s, so spending an Action to gain two of them might not be good at all.
If you change it to "return to the Supply" you get rid of other combos, like the on-trash effect of Catacombs.
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Timinou

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #479 on: January 19, 2021, 10:21:06 am »
0

If we do another round for Promos, I was thinking that it should have the following constraints:
- It should be playable with the Base cards alone plus any set, i.e. it should not make use of things (tokens, mats, etc) that are only found in certain expansions (so for example, no Exiling, no Reserve cards, etc; on the other hand, Night cards would OK)
- It should not introduce any new keywords

Thoughts?
« Last Edit: January 19, 2021, 11:26:28 am by Timinou »
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spineflu

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #480 on: January 19, 2021, 11:18:02 am »
0

I think that's reasonable. Would Projects be allowed? or Landmarks that don't require vp tokens?

Timinou

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #481 on: January 19, 2021, 11:22:59 am »
0

I think that's reasonable. Would Projects be allowed? or Landmarks that don't require vp tokens?

That's a good question. I would say no to Projects because they would need the player markers (even if they are easily substitutable), but yes to to Landmarks that don't require VP tokens.
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X-tra

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #482 on: January 19, 2021, 11:24:31 am »
+2

As Timinou said, I think as long as it doesn't require expansion-specific components, it's good to go. If that is the rule to follow, then I suppose Projects wouldn't work, because they require wooden cubes (specific to Renaissance). However, Landmarks without VP tokens would work in my book.

Sauna/Avanto proves that an expansion-specific gameplay mechanic (here, split piles) can be transferred to Promos, again, as long as it can be used by itself without being dependent on other components.

But yeah, I'm just echoing what has been said already. :)
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Timinou

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #483 on: January 19, 2021, 08:47:23 pm »
+3

So to formally kick things off:

PROMO DESIGN CONTEST

Design a Promo card for Dominion.  The Promo card can be a card, an Event, a Way, or a Landmark.  The following restrictions will apply:

1. Your submission should not require any components that are specific to certain Expansions only.  For example, the following are not permitted:
  • Reserve cards
  • Exile mechanic
  • Other mats (Island, Native Village, Pirate Ship, Trade Route)
  • Tokens (including VP tokens, Villagers, Coffers, Debt, Embargo tokens, Adventures tokens)
  • Projects
  • Ruins
  • Non-Supply cards found only in specific expansions (Horses, Spoils, Wishes, Prizes, Spirits, Madmen, etc.)
  • Boons and Hexes
2. Submissions should not require Potions, Platinums, or Colonies

3. Submissions should not require any of the official Artifacts or States (but feel free to create your own Artifacts or States that interact with your submission if you wish)

4. Submissions should not introduce any new keywords

5. You can use mechanics that are specific to certain expansions, as long as your submission does not violate any of the above restrictions.  So for example, the following would be permitted:
  • Duration cards
  • Night cards
  • Heirlooms
  • Mixed piles
  • Split piles
« Last Edit: January 19, 2021, 11:17:23 pm by Timinou »
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segura

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #484 on: January 20, 2021, 07:12:37 am »
+1

This is an oldie but I think it is neat for a promo. On the surface it is a more expensive Harem with variable Coin/VP values, so it will be immediately familiar. Strategically it plays different though, being perhaps most similar to Fairgrounds.

It's main downside is that due to the "modern" prevalence of engines, Province play (this does after all cost as much as Province, if there is just one further Treasure or Victory Kingdom card) is often the dominant strategy. A non-variable price, most likely $6, could be a necessary buff.

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Timinou

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #485 on: January 20, 2021, 09:07:33 am »
0

As currently worded, Exiled Victory cards wouldn't count for scoring, right?
Also, I don't recall if any of the official alt-VP cards or Landmarks use the phrase "in your deck".  Does it matter if something is in your discard pile at the end of the game? [EDIT: Just looked up the rules; it shouldn't matter and Exiled cards should count]
« Last Edit: January 20, 2021, 09:15:44 am by Timinou »
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majiponi

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #486 on: January 20, 2021, 10:24:15 am »
0

Blessed Coin
cost $4 - Treasure - Duration - Reaction
Either now or at the start of your next turn, +$2. While this is in play, when another player plays an Attack card, it doesn't affect you.
---
When another player plays an Attack card, you may first play this from your hand.
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spineflu

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #487 on: January 20, 2021, 10:27:13 am »
0

I'm entering an event with a two-sided state



Quote
Scry $3 Event
You may put a card from your discard pile on the bottom of your deck. If you don't have Warned, take Warned.

Quote
Warned State
Play with your deck face up (turn it face down when counting or shuffling). At the start of your turn, you may discard the top card from your deck.

"play with your deck face up" seems like fertile promo ground; unfortunately it also seems like it'd be a project most of the time. Pairing it with discard plucking and some weak sifting seems appropriate. This - one event card, six state cards - is still fewer cards than a typical kingdom pile, so i think it'd even be feasible to do with irl printing.

Edited - much simpler, now single sided state.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2021, 11:12:09 am by spineflu »
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X-tra

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #488 on: January 20, 2021, 11:30:37 am »
0

Blessed Coin
cost $4 - Treasure - Duration - Reaction
Either now or at the start of your next turn, +$2. While this is in play, when another player plays an Attack card, it doesn't affect you.
---
When another player plays an Attack card, you may first play this from your hand.

Just for fun, I wanted to sketch what this three colour typing would look like on a Dominion card:

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Aquila

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #489 on: January 20, 2021, 05:11:39 pm »
0

Entry:
Quote
Warden - Action Attack, $5 cost.
+3 Cards
+1 Buy

Each other player discards a card with +Buy amounts in its text (or reveals they can't). Those who do draw a card.
-
In games using this, Duchies are worth 1VP more.
I liked the connection of 'in games using this' and promo and landed here. Duchies are more efficient than Provinces at gaining VP; either the game is longer with Provinces still relevant, or Duchies are a 3 pile rush alt VP strategy. Buys have an influence here, so the on-play makes an impact there in a new way.



I'm entering an event with a two-sided state

/

Quote
Scry $3 Event
You may place a card from your discard pile on the bottom of your deck, then turn your deck face up. If you don't have "Warned" or "Twice Warned", take "Warned".

Quote
Warned State
After shuffling or counting your deck, turn it face up. At the start of your turn, you may discard the top card of your deck. If you do, turn this over to Twice Warned.

Quote
Twice Warned State
After shuffling or counting your deck, turn it face up. At the start of clean up, you may discard the top card of your deck. If you do, return this (and turn your deck face down).

"play with your deck face up" seems like fertile promo ground; unfortunately it also seems like it'd be a project most of the time. Pairing it with discard plucking and some weak sifting seems appropriate. This - one event card, six state cards - is still fewer cards than a typical kingdom pile, so i think it'd even be feasible to do with irl printing.

Points of pride: putting the "what about shuffling"/"what if i need to count my deck" complaints implicitly to rest.
So Scry by itself lets you see your deck for the rest of its current shuffle. Each side of Warned turns the next new deck over, or if you don't have it anymore the deck goes face down as normal. Do I have this right? Because turning it over after counting the deck seems unnecessary, it's all face up so you can look through all of it as you count. I guess it's all public knowledge as well, technically. What's stopping your opponents leafing through your deck? (A sensible rulebook instruction saying they can't.)
And the decision to discard the top of deck with Twice Warned is between moving a junk card on and losing the deck knowledge advantage so having to pay another $3 later to regain it. I suppose it's worth it sometimes, but most likely it's a $3 better saved.
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spineflu

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #490 on: January 20, 2021, 07:35:07 pm »
0


I'm entering an event with a two-sided state

/

Quote
Scry $3 Event
You may place a card from your discard pile on the bottom of your deck, then turn your deck face up. If you don't have "Warned" or "Twice Warned", take "Warned".

Quote
Warned State
After shuffling or counting your deck, turn it face up. At the start of your turn, you may discard the top card of your deck. If you do, turn this over to Twice Warned.

Quote
Twice Warned State
After shuffling or counting your deck, turn it face up. At the start of clean up, you may discard the top card of your deck. If you do, return this (and turn your deck face down).

"play with your deck face up" seems like fertile promo ground; unfortunately it also seems like it'd be a project most of the time. Pairing it with discard plucking and some weak sifting seems appropriate. This - one event card, six state cards - is still fewer cards than a typical kingdom pile, so i think it'd even be feasible to do with irl printing.

Points of pride: putting the "what about shuffling"/"what if i need to count my deck" complaints implicitly to rest.
So Scry by itself lets you see your deck for the rest of its current shuffle. Each side of Warned turns the next new deck over, or if you don't have it anymore the deck goes face down as normal. Do I have this right? Because turning it over after counting the deck seems unnecessary, it's all face up so you can look through all of it as you count. I guess it's all public knowledge as well, technically. What's stopping your opponents leafing through your deck? (A sensible rulebook instruction saying they can't.)
And the decision to discard the top of deck with Twice Warned is between moving a junk card on and losing the deck knowledge advantage so having to pay another $3 later to regain it. I suppose it's worth it sometimes, but most likely it's a $3 better saved.
after you buy Scry / have Warned or Twice Warned, you turn your deck face down for shuffling or counting; at all other times, it is face up. I suppose other players could look through it, but I think that falls under the same sort of table ettiquette as not looking at other players' hands.
As for price, consider it more that you can discard two pieces of green/junk until you buy it again.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2021, 07:36:24 pm by spineflu »
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LibraryAdventurer

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #491 on: January 21, 2021, 12:48:39 am »
+1

This is a card I've had in my set for a long time, but I think it'd fit well as a promo card.

Quote
Royal Heirloom
$5 - Action - Duration
Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal an action card, put the action card in your hand and discard the rest. Then choose an action card from your hand. Play it now and play it again at the start of your next turn.

dpm

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #492 on: January 21, 2021, 10:05:15 am »
+1

This is an oldie but I think it is neat for a promo. On the surface it is a more expensive Harem with variable Coin/VP values, so it will be immediately familiar. Strategically it plays different though, being perhaps most similar to Fairgrounds.

It's main downside is that due to the "modern" prevalence of engines, Province play (this does after all cost as much as Province, if there is just one further Treasure or Victory Kingdom card) is often the dominant strategy. A non-variable price, most likely $6, could be a necessary buff.



This is a cool card, but what is its cost if Castles are in the kingdom? 
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spineflu

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #493 on: January 21, 2021, 10:46:30 am »
0

This is an oldie but I think it is neat for a promo. On the surface it is a more expensive Harem with variable Coin/VP values, so it will be immediately familiar. Strategically it plays different though, being perhaps most similar to Fairgrounds.

It's main downside is that due to the "modern" prevalence of engines, Province play (this does after all cost as much as Province, if there is just one further Treasure or Victory Kingdom card) is often the dominant strategy. A non-variable price, most likely $6, could be a necessary buff.



This is a cool card, but what is its cost if Castles are in the kingdom?
$14 + whatever other treasures/victories are in the kingdom. It's also worth 11VP if you run the castle pile (and grab at least one Prov/Duc/Estate).

dpm

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #494 on: January 21, 2021, 02:17:22 pm »
0

If the castles pile is empty then those 8 victory cards are no longer in the supply.  Is it intended to be "in the supply at the beginning of the game"? 
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segura

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #495 on: January 21, 2021, 02:25:45 pm »
+1

Nope. So when e.g. the last Plunder is bought, the cost of Treasure Cove decreases by 1.
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Holger

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #496 on: January 21, 2021, 05:16:49 pm »
0


I'm entering an event with a two-sided state

/

Quote
Scry $3 Event
You may place a card from your discard pile on the bottom of your deck, then turn your deck face up. If you don't have "Warned" or "Twice Warned", take "Warned".

Quote
Warned State
After shuffling or counting your deck, turn it face up. At the start of your turn, you may discard the top card of your deck. If you do, turn this over to Twice Warned.

Quote
Twice Warned State
After shuffling or counting your deck, turn it face up. At the start of clean up, you may discard the top card of your deck. If you do, return this (and turn your deck face down).

"play with your deck face up" seems like fertile promo ground; unfortunately it also seems like it'd be a project most of the time. Pairing it with discard plucking and some weak sifting seems appropriate. This - one event card, six state cards - is still fewer cards than a typical kingdom pile, so i think it'd even be feasible to do with irl printing.

Points of pride: putting the "what about shuffling"/"what if i need to count my deck" complaints implicitly to rest.
So Scry by itself lets you see your deck for the rest of its current shuffle. Each side of Warned turns the next new deck over, or if you don't have it anymore the deck goes face down as normal. Do I have this right? Because turning it over after counting the deck seems unnecessary, it's all face up so you can look through all of it as you count. I guess it's all public knowledge as well, technically. What's stopping your opponents leafing through your deck? (A sensible rulebook instruction saying they can't.)
And the decision to discard the top of deck with Twice Warned is between moving a junk card on and losing the deck knowledge advantage so having to pay another $3 later to regain it. I suppose it's worth it sometimes, but most likely it's a $3 better saved.
after you buy Scry / have Warned or Twice Warned, you turn your deck face down for shuffling or counting; at all other times, it is face up. I suppose other players could look through it, but I think that falls under the same sort of table ettiquette as not looking at other players' hands.
As for price, consider it more that you can discard two pieces of green/junk until you buy it again.
So Scry allows you to look at your whole deck, not just the top card? That's an interesting concept, but seems very AP-prone to me...

Certainly not looking at opponents' hands is a hard rule, not just etiquette? So there should also be a ruling whether opponents can look through your face-up deck with Scry or not.

After all, all face-up cards in the game are generally public knowledge, and opponents are already allowed to count your deck, since deck size is public knowledge.
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LittleFish

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #497 on: January 21, 2021, 05:21:46 pm »
+1


I'm entering an event with a two-sided state

/

Quote
Scry $3 Event
You may place a card from your discard pile on the bottom of your deck, then turn your deck face up. If you don't have "Warned" or "Twice Warned", take "Warned".

Quote
Warned State
After shuffling or counting your deck, turn it face up. At the start of your turn, you may discard the top card of your deck. If you do, turn this over to Twice Warned.

Quote
Twice Warned State
After shuffling or counting your deck, turn it face up. At the start of clean up, you may discard the top card of your deck. If you do, return this (and turn your deck face down).

"play with your deck face up" seems like fertile promo ground; unfortunately it also seems like it'd be a project most of the time. Pairing it with discard plucking and some weak sifting seems appropriate. This - one event card, six state cards - is still fewer cards than a typical kingdom pile, so i think it'd even be feasible to do with irl printing.

Points of pride: putting the "what about shuffling"/"what if i need to count my deck" complaints implicitly to rest.
So Scry by itself lets you see your deck for the rest of its current shuffle. Each side of Warned turns the next new deck over, or if you don't have it anymore the deck goes face down as normal. Do I have this right? Because turning it over after counting the deck seems unnecessary, it's all face up so you can look through all of it as you count. I guess it's all public knowledge as well, technically. What's stopping your opponents leafing through your deck? (A sensible rulebook instruction saying they can't.)
And the decision to discard the top of deck with Twice Warned is between moving a junk card on and losing the deck knowledge advantage so having to pay another $3 later to regain it. I suppose it's worth it sometimes, but most likely it's a $3 better saved.
after you buy Scry / have Warned or Twice Warned, you turn your deck face down for shuffling or counting; at all other times, it is face up. I suppose other players could look through it, but I think that falls under the same sort of table ettiquette as not looking at other players' hands.
As for price, consider it more that you can discard two pieces of green/junk until you buy it again.
So Scry allows you to look at your whole deck, not just the top card? That's an interesting concept, but seems very AP-prone to me...

Certainly not looking at opponents' hands is a hard rule, not just etiquette? So there should also be a ruling whether opponents can look through your face-up deck with Scry or not.

After all, all face-up cards in the game are generally public knowledge, and opponents are already allowed to count your deck, since deck size is public knowledge.
Maybe have it be like Native Village, where you can look at the card (in this case the top card of your deck) at any time
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spineflu

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #498 on: January 21, 2021, 05:42:24 pm »
0


I'm entering an event with a two-sided state

/

Quote
Scry $3 Event
You may place a card from your discard pile on the bottom of your deck, then turn your deck face up. If you don't have "Warned" or "Twice Warned", take "Warned".

Quote
Warned State
After shuffling or counting your deck, turn it face up. At the start of your turn, you may discard the top card of your deck. If you do, turn this over to Twice Warned.

Quote
Twice Warned State
After shuffling or counting your deck, turn it face up. At the start of clean up, you may discard the top card of your deck. If you do, return this (and turn your deck face down).

"play with your deck face up" seems like fertile promo ground; unfortunately it also seems like it'd be a project most of the time. Pairing it with discard plucking and some weak sifting seems appropriate. This - one event card, six state cards - is still fewer cards than a typical kingdom pile, so i think it'd even be feasible to do with irl printing.

Points of pride: putting the "what about shuffling"/"what if i need to count my deck" complaints implicitly to rest.
So Scry by itself lets you see your deck for the rest of its current shuffle. Each side of Warned turns the next new deck over, or if you don't have it anymore the deck goes face down as normal. Do I have this right? Because turning it over after counting the deck seems unnecessary, it's all face up so you can look through all of it as you count. I guess it's all public knowledge as well, technically. What's stopping your opponents leafing through your deck? (A sensible rulebook instruction saying they can't.)
And the decision to discard the top of deck with Twice Warned is between moving a junk card on and losing the deck knowledge advantage so having to pay another $3 later to regain it. I suppose it's worth it sometimes, but most likely it's a $3 better saved.
after you buy Scry / have Warned or Twice Warned, you turn your deck face down for shuffling or counting; at all other times, it is face up. I suppose other players could look through it, but I think that falls under the same sort of table ettiquette as not looking at other players' hands.
As for price, consider it more that you can discard two pieces of green/junk until you buy it again.
So Scry allows you to look at your whole deck, not just the top card? That's an interesting concept, but seems very AP-prone to me...

Certainly not looking at opponents' hands is a hard rule, not just etiquette? So there should also be a ruling whether opponents can look through your face-up deck with Scry or not.

After all, all face-up cards in the game are generally public knowledge, and opponents are already allowed to count your deck, since deck size is public knowledge.
nope;
you (and everyone at the table) should only be looking at/able to see the top card.

it's a friendly game with an etiquette that shouldn't really be bringing out this level of rules lawyer. i figured "turn your deck over" was easier than a constant peeking at the top, or turning the top card face up all the time, but maybe i misjudged. It's certainly less text than other options.

if you need to count a face up deck, flip it face down first.

As for the rest of your post:
Like, for a thought experiment, let's say you're playing on a glass table. you count your deck, but leave them just fanned out enough to be able to see where everything is if they were face up; if you duck under the table (not technically in the rulebook) so that you're able to see what's coming up in your deck, that's against the etiquette of the game. Or unsportsmanlike or whatever. Yeah you might win, but it's a friendly game; why are you trying to cheat to win at a friendly game?

I guess, in short, try to win, but try to win only using the knowledge you're supposed to have; you can accidentally knock over a face up deck, or know the contents of someone's discard pile, and use that knowledge to "win" but if it's not in good faith, how's it a win?

edit: and, I looked in the rulebook, it doesn't specify whether or not you can look at other players' hands; I'd guess that's equal parts convention on how a "hand" works and etiquette. I certainly wouldn't want to play open handed all the time (only when teaching, really) but that's just me.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2021, 06:05:56 pm by spineflu »
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Holger

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #499 on: January 21, 2021, 05:53:40 pm »
+1

This is an oldie but I think it is neat for a promo. On the surface it is a more expensive Harem with variable Coin/VP values, so it will be immediately familiar. Strategically it plays different though, being perhaps most similar to Fairgrounds.

It's main downside is that due to the "modern" prevalence of engines, Province play (this does after all cost as much as Province, if there is just one further Treasure or Victory Kingdom card) is often the dominant strategy. A non-variable price, most likely $6, could be a necessary buff.



As this is almost always at least as good as Harem (you only need one other Treasure in play and one other VP card in your deck to make it +$2+2VP), it shouldn't have a fixed cost of $6 IMO.
If you want to make the price non-variable, I'd suggest $7 (which is also the price it currently has when there's no other extra Treasure or VP piles in the kingdom, and no empty piles.) But it may also be fine as is.
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