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Author Topic: Set Expansion Contest  (Read 79749 times)

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grrgrrgrr

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #400 on: January 02, 2021, 06:26:45 am »
+10



Quote
Obsolete Denomination (Project, $3)
During your turns, Coppers produce $0. When you play a Copper, trash it.
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Holger

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #401 on: January 02, 2021, 09:45:06 am »
+1

Letterpress
cost $6 - Project
When you gain a non-Victory card costing up to $4, gain a copy of it (that doesn't come with another).


A permanent Talisman.  Let's spell a magic of stella!  (Be careful when someone has a Witch.)

I like it. But the Curse thing seems more like a bug than a feature. Maybe "Action Card" rather than non-victory?

Also probably better if it can't double Tunnels. 4 VP for 3$ is a bit silly.

Tunnel is a Victory card.  I didn't say Action cards so that I can gain many Silvers.
First I tried "$5, mandatory gain", too easy to govern games. Next, "$6, optional gain", too useful. So this is "$6, mandatory", a little weakened.

Isn't the difference between mandatory and optional gain negligible in the majority of games that don't have a junker? It's rare that you intentionally gain a cheap card and wouldn't want another copy of it for free - except for cheap trashers like Chapel, which you'll gain before your first $6 hand anyway.
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Holger

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #402 on: January 02, 2021, 09:49:06 am »
+4



Quote
Obsolete Denomination (Project, $3)
During your turns, Coppers produce $0. When you play a Copper, trash it.

Lord Bottington will buy this on turn 1...  ;D ;D
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Gubump

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #403 on: January 02, 2021, 11:36:06 am »
+1

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grrgrrgrr

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #404 on: January 02, 2021, 11:41:16 am »
+1

Letterpress
cost $6 - Project
When you gain a non-Victory card costing up to $4, gain a copy of it (that doesn't come with another).


A permanent Talisman.  Let's spell a magic of stella!  (Be careful when someone has a Witch.)

I like it. But the Curse thing seems more like a bug than a feature. Maybe "Action Card" rather than non-victory?

Also probably better if it can't double Tunnels. 4 VP for 3$ is a bit silly.

I'd honestly add "costing $2 to $4". Other possiblities include: add a "during your turn" clause or explicitly exclude Curses from eligible cards (you cannot exclude Ruins though).
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spineflu

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #405 on: January 02, 2021, 03:05:31 pm »
+1


Quote
Favor • $4 • Treasure
+1 Coffers
+1 Villager
You may return this to the Supply to return to your Action phase, then +1 Card.

This is similar to a card i entered in like, WDC#93, but corrected (to being cheaper) and more modular (if you want more actions like villa, you'll have to spend the villager you just got). I'm entering it because I think Renaissance, for as high-skill-level as it is, doesn't have a Villa/Cavalry style returner (or other "extra turns" mechanic, save for fleet), and I think that'd be a cool thing to have.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2021, 03:06:40 pm by spineflu »
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LittleFish

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #406 on: January 03, 2021, 03:07:25 pm »
0


Wouldn't it make more sense to be "during your turns" not "in your turns"?
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Gubump

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #407 on: January 03, 2021, 03:13:32 pm »
0


Wouldn't it make more sense to be "during your turns" not "in your turns"?

I copied the wording from Labyrinth:
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Aquila

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #408 on: January 03, 2021, 04:47:25 pm »
+2



Quote
Obsolete Denomination (Project, $3)
During your turns, Coppers produce $0. When you play a Copper, trash it.
I like this, it's clever. It's just a shame Renaissance already has Silos.



Quote
Theatre Venue
Victory
Worth 1% plus an additional 1% for every 2 Villagers you have (rounded down).
-
When you gain this, if you have no Villagers, +3 Villagers, otherwise +1 Villager.

A VP card that scales with additional Villagers. Some of the other Villager cards could make this busted, so I am thinking it may be too good as is. I am thinking of changing it to be a set bonus VPs for just having a minimum number of Villagers, something like +2 VP for having at last 4 Villagers or something. It is still a decent source of villagers regardless and can be remodeled if that is an option in the Kingdom if you are not going "big villager". Feedback would be appreciated.
Villagers are unbounded, so the infinite VP,  endless game potential here might be quite likely? (Patron and Expedition don't push the game to its end.)
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Xen3k

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #409 on: January 03, 2021, 08:10:47 pm »
0



Quote
Theatre Venue
Victory
Worth 1% plus an additional 1% for every 2 Villagers you have (rounded down).
-
When you gain this, if you have no Villagers, +3 Villagers, otherwise +1 Villager.

A VP card that scales with additional Villagers. Some of the other Villager cards could make this busted, so I am thinking it may be too good as is. I am thinking of changing it to be a set bonus VPs for just having a minimum number of Villagers, something like +2 VP for having at last 4 Villagers or something. It is still a decent source of villagers regardless and can be remodeled if that is an option in the Kingdom if you are not going "big villager". Feedback would be appreciated.
Villagers are unbounded, so the infinite VP,  endless game potential here might be quite likely? (Patron and Expedition don't push the game to its end.)

It is a good point that Villagers are indeed uncapped. I still want it pseudo scaling with the number of villagers you have, so I changed it to be capped based on how many Theatre Venues you have.



Quote
Theatre Venue
Victory
Worth 1VP plus an additional 1VP per set you have of Theatre Venue - 2 Villagers.
-
When you gain this, if you have no Villagers, +3 Villagers, otherwise +1 Villager.

Updated the original post here. Hopefully this change will address the potential infinite VP concern without nerfing the card too hard.
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BBobb

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #410 on: January 04, 2021, 01:39:54 am »
0



Quote
Theatre Venue
Victory
Worth 1% plus an additional 1% for every 2 Villagers you have (rounded down).
-
When you gain this, if you have no Villagers, +3 Villagers, otherwise +1 Villager.

A VP card that scales with additional Villagers. Some of the other Villager cards could make this busted, so I am thinking it may be too good as is. I am thinking of changing it to be a set bonus VPs for just having a minimum number of Villagers, something like +2 VP for having at last 4 Villagers or something. It is still a decent source of villagers regardless and can be remodeled if that is an option in the Kingdom if you are not going "big villager". Feedback would be appreciated.
Villagers are unbounded, so the infinite VP,  endless game potential here might be quite likely? (Patron and Expedition don't push the game to its end.)

It is a good point that Villagers are indeed uncapped. I still want it pseudo scaling with the number of villagers you have, so I changed it to be capped based on how many Theatre Venues you have.



Quote
Theatre Venue
Victory
Worth 1VP plus an additional 1VP per set you have of Theatre Venue - 2 Villagers.
-
When you gain this, if you have no Villagers, +3 Villagers, otherwise +1 Villager.

Updated the original post here. Hopefully this change will address the potential infinite VP concern without nerfing the card too hard.

Problem is that now, all Theatre Venues are Estates after the first one (if I am understanding the card correctly).
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grrgrrgrr

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #411 on: January 04, 2021, 09:25:00 am »
+1



Quote
Theatre Venue
Victory
Worth 1% plus an additional 1% for every 2 Villagers you have (rounded down).
-
When you gain this, if you have no Villagers, +3 Villagers, otherwise +1 Villager.

A VP card that scales with additional Villagers. Some of the other Villager cards could make this busted, so I am thinking it may be too good as is. I am thinking of changing it to be a set bonus VPs for just having a minimum number of Villagers, something like +2 VP for having at last 4 Villagers or something. It is still a decent source of villagers regardless and can be remodeled if that is an option in the Kingdom if you are not going "big villager". Feedback would be appreciated.
Villagers are unbounded, so the infinite VP,  endless game potential here might be quite likely? (Patron and Expedition don't push the game to its end.)

It is a good point that Villagers are indeed uncapped. I still want it pseudo scaling with the number of villagers you have, so I changed it to be capped based on how many Theatre Venues you have.



Quote
Theatre Venue
Victory
Worth 1VP plus an additional 1VP per set you have of Theatre Venue - 2 Villagers.
-
When you gain this, if you have no Villagers, +3 Villagers, otherwise +1 Villager.

Updated the original post here. Hopefully this change will address the potential infinite VP concern without nerfing the card too hard.

Problem is that now, all Theatre Venues are Estates after the first one (if I am understanding the card correctly).

Not quite. The VP value is MIN(n*(n+1), (1+[V/2])*n). It explores the concept of a VP card whose value grows quadratically w.r.t. the amount of TVs in your deck (n), but the amount of villagers in your pool (V) drastically keeps the count in check.
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silverspawn

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #412 on: January 04, 2021, 05:41:21 pm »
+2

anordinaryman

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #413 on: January 06, 2021, 04:38:48 pm »
0



Quote
Obsolete Denomination (Project, $3)
During your turns, Coppers produce $0. When you play a Copper, trash it.
I like this, it's clever. It's just a shame Renaissance already has Silos.


To me this feels radically different than silos. With Silos, you can still use Coppers for economy, you just get to sift them at start of turn to get to your engine better (or other Coppers). And, like all sifting, you still run the risk of your engine dying to a build draw, even later on. But Obsolete Denomination instantly reduces the economy Coppers provide to $0 and you still have to draw them to trash them.

With Obsolete Denomination a hand of 5 coppers does nothing for this turn, and helps future turns with trashing. With Silos, the hand of 5 coppers is like a guide.

I think Obsolete Denomination is the best fan card I've ever seen. It's simple, but strategically complicated about when you buy it.
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spineflu

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #414 on: January 06, 2021, 04:43:25 pm »
+1



Quote
Obsolete Denomination (Project, $3)
During your turns, Coppers produce $0. When you play a Copper, trash it.
I like this, it's clever. It's just a shame Renaissance already has Silos.


To me this feels radically different than silos. With Silos, you can still use Coppers for economy, you just get to sift them at start of turn to get to your engine better (or other Coppers). And, like all sifting, you still run the risk of your engine dying to a build draw, even later on. But Obsolete Denomination instantly reduces the economy Coppers provide to $0 and you still have to draw them to trash them.

With Obsolete Denomination a hand of 5 coppers does nothing for this turn, and helps future turns with trashing. With Silos, the hand of 5 coppers is like a guide.

I think Obsolete Denomination is the best fan card I've ever seen. It's simple, but strategically complicated about when you buy it.

i think it really does one unforgivable thing though, which is enable economic pins. Say you've got enough "other" economy (silvers, whatever), a handful of villages+draw to get it, and someone pulls off a KC-KC-swindler(s) to trash out all your other money. All the sudden you can't rebuild your deck at all. It's a midjudgement on your part doing that, but thats going to sour you on the game as a whole.
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segura

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #415 on: January 06, 2021, 05:32:36 pm »
0



Quote
Obsolete Denomination (Project, $3)
During your turns, Coppers produce $0. When you play a Copper, trash it.
I like this, it's clever. It's just a shame Renaissance already has Silos.

It's simple, but strategically complicated about when you buy it.
Doesn’t look complicated. You open Silver/Silver or Silver / terminal Silver. Then you buy a $4 or $5 and the Project.
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pubby

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #416 on: January 06, 2021, 05:43:50 pm »
+2

If I play Coppersmith with Obselete Denomination, what happens?
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GendoIkari

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #417 on: January 06, 2021, 08:26:39 pm »
+2

If I play Coppersmith with Obselete Denomination, what happens?

Outpost + Expedition seems to provide a canon example... "Extra 2 cards" goes on top of the "only draw 3 cards", so it should work the same here; "an additional " would go on top of "produces ".
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Holger

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #418 on: January 07, 2021, 11:45:57 am »
0



Quote
Obsolete Denomination (Project, $3)
During your turns, Coppers produce $0. When you play a Copper, trash it.
I like this, it's clever. It's just a shame Renaissance already has Silos.


To me this feels radically different than silos. With Silos, you can still use Coppers for economy, you just get to sift them at start of turn to get to your engine better (or other Coppers). And, like all sifting, you still run the risk of your engine dying to a build draw, even later on. But Obsolete Denomination instantly reduces the economy Coppers provide to $0 and you still have to draw them to trash them.

With Obsolete Denomination a hand of 5 coppers does nothing for this turn, and helps future turns with trashing. With Silos, the hand of 5 coppers is like a guide.

I think Obsolete Denomination is the best fan card I've ever seen. It's simple, but strategically complicated about when you buy it.

i think it really does one unforgivable thing though, which is enable economic pins. Say you've got enough "other" economy (silvers, whatever), a handful of villages+draw to get it, and someone pulls off a KC-KC-swindler(s) to trash out all your other money. All the sudden you can't rebuild your deck at all. It's a midjudgement on your part doing that, but thats going to sour you on the game as a whole.

I don't think that's a huge problem, as most official cards with Debt have a similar issue: If you have unpaid Debt (e.g. due to buying City Quarter, Donate or Blacksmith) and lose all your deck's economy, you can't buy anything for the rest of the game, not even Coppers.
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Holger

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #419 on: January 07, 2021, 12:15:42 pm »
+1



Quote
Theatre Venue
Victory
Worth 1% plus an additional 1% for every 2 Villagers you have (rounded down).
-
When you gain this, if you have no Villagers, +3 Villagers, otherwise +1 Villager.

A VP card that scales with additional Villagers. Some of the other Villager cards could make this busted, so I am thinking it may be too good as is. I am thinking of changing it to be a set bonus VPs for just having a minimum number of Villagers, something like +2 VP for having at last 4 Villagers or something. It is still a decent source of villagers regardless and can be remodeled if that is an option in the Kingdom if you are not going "big villager". Feedback would be appreciated.
Villagers are unbounded, so the infinite VP,  endless game potential here might be quite likely? (Patron and Expedition don't push the game to its end.)

It is a good point that Villagers are indeed uncapped. I still want it pseudo scaling with the number of villagers you have, so I changed it to be capped based on how many Theatre Venues you have.



Quote
Theatre Venue
Victory
Worth 1VP plus an additional 1VP per set you have of Theatre Venue - 2 Villagers.
-
When you gain this, if you have no Villagers, +3 Villagers, otherwise +1 Villager.

Updated the original post here. Hopefully this change will address the potential infinite VP concern without nerfing the card too hard.


I don't think the potential danger of a golden deck with one of only two specific two-card combos* requires making Theatre Venue significantly more complicated (I consider your original version much simpler and more elegant than the update).
You'd already need two Theatre Venues (original version) in your deck (i.e. two otherwise dead cards) just to make Patron equivalent to Monument in terms of VP's gained per turn, and Monument is an official card that allows for a (weakish) golden deck without any help (except for a trasher). And just like Monument, Patron and Exploration do push the player toward buying more cards instead of building a golden deck, by giving $2 or 1 Coffers, respectively.
Finally, I don't see any "Villager golden deck" with TV even coming close to the Fortress-Bishop golden deck (which is guaranteed to give at least 12 VP per turn indefinitely): E.g. Exploration+your original TV gives at most 4 VP per turn, even if you managed to get all 8 TV's.


*Actually, Patron+TV is rather a 3-card combo, as you also need a strong trasher to create this golden deck.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2021, 12:18:24 pm by Holger »
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Xen3k

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #420 on: January 07, 2021, 06:15:57 pm »
0



Quote
Theatre Venue
Victory
Worth 1% plus an additional 1% for every 2 Villagers you have (rounded down).
-
When you gain this, if you have no Villagers, +3 Villagers, otherwise +1 Villager.

A VP card that scales with additional Villagers. Some of the other Villager cards could make this busted, so I am thinking it may be too good as is. I am thinking of changing it to be a set bonus VPs for just having a minimum number of Villagers, something like +2 VP for having at last 4 Villagers or something. It is still a decent source of villagers regardless and can be remodeled if that is an option in the Kingdom if you are not going "big villager". Feedback would be appreciated.
Villagers are unbounded, so the infinite VP,  endless game potential here might be quite likely? (Patron and Expedition don't push the game to its end.)

It is a good point that Villagers are indeed uncapped. I still want it pseudo scaling with the number of villagers you have, so I changed it to be capped based on how many Theatre Venues you have.



Quote
Theatre Venue
Victory
Worth 1VP plus an additional 1VP per set you have of Theatre Venue - 2 Villagers.
-
When you gain this, if you have no Villagers, +3 Villagers, otherwise +1 Villager.

Updated the original post here. Hopefully this change will address the potential infinite VP concern without nerfing the card too hard.


I don't think the potential danger of a golden deck with one of only two specific two-card combos* requires making Theatre Venue significantly more complicated (I consider your original version much simpler and more elegant than the update).
You'd already need two Theatre Venues (original version) in your deck (i.e. two otherwise dead cards) just to make Patron equivalent to Monument in terms of VP's gained per turn, and Monument is an official card that allows for a (weakish) golden deck without any help (except for a trasher). And just like Monument, Patron and Exploration do push the player toward buying more cards instead of building a golden deck, by giving $2 or 1 Coffers, respectively.
Finally, I don't see any "Villager golden deck" with TV even coming close to the Fortress-Bishop golden deck (which is guaranteed to give at least 12 VP per turn indefinitely): E.g. Exploration+your original TV gives at most 4 VP per turn, even if you managed to get all 8 TV's.


*Actually, Patron+TV is rather a 3-card combo, as you also need a strong trasher to create this golden deck.

Thanks for the feedback. I am concerned about the centralizing nature of the card if it has the infinite VP potential. I am also thinking of fan content that is more generous with Villagers than the official cards. I agree with you that the original is more straight forward, and I actually prefer it, but am concerned the infinite VP potential is too verboten as a general rule to allow. I would appreciate additional opinions on it as I am not fully familiar with peoples opinions on how detrimental it is to have a card give the potential for a "golden deck".
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spineflu

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #421 on: January 07, 2021, 07:21:45 pm »
0



Quote
Obsolete Denomination (Project, $3)
During your turns, Coppers produce $0. When you play a Copper, trash it.
I like this, it's clever. It's just a shame Renaissance already has Silos.


To me this feels radically different than silos. With Silos, you can still use Coppers for economy, you just get to sift them at start of turn to get to your engine better (or other Coppers). And, like all sifting, you still run the risk of your engine dying to a build draw, even later on. But Obsolete Denomination instantly reduces the economy Coppers provide to $0 and you still have to draw them to trash them.

With Obsolete Denomination a hand of 5 coppers does nothing for this turn, and helps future turns with trashing. With Silos, the hand of 5 coppers is like a guide.

I think Obsolete Denomination is the best fan card I've ever seen. It's simple, but strategically complicated about when you buy it.

i think it really does one unforgivable thing though, which is enable economic pins. Say you've got enough "other" economy (silvers, whatever), a handful of villages+draw to get it, and someone pulls off a KC-KC-swindler(s) to trash out all your other money. All the sudden you can't rebuild your deck at all. It's a midjudgement on your part doing that, but thats going to sour you on the game as a whole.

I don't think that's a huge problem, as most official cards with Debt have a similar issue: If you have unpaid Debt (e.g. due to buying City Quarter, Donate or Blacksmith) and lose all your deck's economy, you can't buy anything for the rest of the game, not even Coppers.
correct BUT you can only pin yourself with debt; this enables another player to do it to you
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segura

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #422 on: January 08, 2021, 12:56:47 am »
+1

If you buy this Project with KC and Swindler in the Kingdom and get pinned down, you deserve to lose.
Copper as a way to always get out of an economic mess is a nice design feature but it is from a practical perspective nearly totally irrelevant. I can count the non-Garden games in which I bought Copper on one hand.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2021, 12:58:42 am by segura »
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Timinou

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #423 on: January 08, 2021, 01:42:22 pm »
0

24 hour warning
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Holger

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #424 on: January 09, 2021, 10:24:16 am »
+1



Quote
Obsolete Denomination (Project, $3)
During your turns, Coppers produce $0. When you play a Copper, trash it.
I like this, it's clever. It's just a shame Renaissance already has Silos.


To me this feels radically different than silos. With Silos, you can still use Coppers for economy, you just get to sift them at start of turn to get to your engine better (or other Coppers). And, like all sifting, you still run the risk of your engine dying to a build draw, even later on. But Obsolete Denomination instantly reduces the economy Coppers provide to $0 and you still have to draw them to trash them.

With Obsolete Denomination a hand of 5 coppers does nothing for this turn, and helps future turns with trashing. With Silos, the hand of 5 coppers is like a guide.

I think Obsolete Denomination is the best fan card I've ever seen. It's simple, but strategically complicated about when you buy it.

i think it really does one unforgivable thing though, which is enable economic pins. Say you've got enough "other" economy (silvers, whatever), a handful of villages+draw to get it, and someone pulls off a KC-KC-swindler(s) to trash out all your other money. All the sudden you can't rebuild your deck at all. It's a midjudgement on your part doing that, but thats going to sour you on the game as a whole.

I don't think that's a huge problem, as most official cards with Debt have a similar issue: If you have unpaid Debt (e.g. due to buying City Quarter, Donate or Blacksmith) and lose all your deck's economy, you can't buy anything for the rest of the game, not even Coppers.
correct BUT you can only pin yourself with debt; this enables another player to do it to you
In both cases, you can unwillingly get pinned by your opponent: 
Suppose the only $ sources in my deck are 2 Silver and the starting Coppers, and I use a $3 hand to buy either Donate or OD to get rid of my Coppers (usually a reasonable thing to do).
Either way, my opponent can pin me if he can Swindle both of my Silvers into (say) Villages on his next turn, leaving me unable to buy anything (due to the now permanent Debt from buying Donate) resp. anything useful (with OD) for the rest of the game.
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