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Author Topic: Set Expansion Contest  (Read 3059 times)

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silverspawn

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #100 on: October 12, 2020, 03:40:06 am »
0


Somehow, I had the idea that not all Seaside cards are duration cards. Idk why I thought that.
<waterfall>
In light of the previous discussion, I imagine segura will think this is underpowered. It isn't. Anyway, I thought that discarding first is actually an underutilized mechanic.
I like the card, but I really don't think it needs the drawback of helping other players.
Also, I think the set expansion contests are supposed to use at least one of the mechanical themes of the expansion, which for Seaside would be: duration, other next-turn/top-decking stuff (like Treasury/Treasure Map), usage of the Seaside mats, pirate ship tokens, embargo tokens, etc.
 
I shall not be heartbroken if it doesn't qualify, and I don't expect it to win either way since most people probably share segura's intuition here.

Alas! I think you're wrong. The thing that's most important in most dominion games is to play as many hand-size increasing effects as possible. That's why smithy is strong (it's one of them) and why trashing it's strong (lets you play then more often).

This card is bonkers for that. It's both sifting and draw together. Way stronger than embassy since it increases your hand size by twice as much.

(I do agree it doesn't need the penalty power-level wise, but I think it's a higher skill card with the penalty, and still  strong enough to be bought.)

And every set has several cards that don't fit the theme. Like warehouse.
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segura

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #101 on: October 12, 2020, 09:21:09 am »
0

What the other payers get, i.e. Reverse Fugitive, is a $4:

+1 Card
+1 Action

Discard a card to draw a card

There is an old discussion about a Lab for $4 that gives each other player a Fugitive. The hunch was that it is too weak.
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4701
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4007.msg97045#msg97045

Waterfall is quite similar, not to mention that Reverse Fugitive is often preferable to Waterfall, especially if terminal space is limited (or you are thin and can only discard good stuff before you draw in which case the card is just a Smithy).

So yeah, this is a weakish $5 without the Reverse Fugitive and totally underpowered with the Reverse Fugitive.
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silverspawn

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #102 on: October 12, 2020, 09:30:41 am »
0

called it
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segura

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #103 on: October 12, 2020, 09:30:45 am »
0

Caravan had nothing to do with seaside either. Waterfall makes the most sense in seaside if anything
The focus of the expansion contests is first and foremost on mechanics. The theme should ideally match, but that is secondary.
If the focus would be on theme, I could post a Night card named Pirate" that I play with and that uses Spoils and the Treasure Chest.
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LordBaphomet

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #104 on: October 12, 2020, 11:11:18 am »
0

Caravan had nothing to do with seaside either. Waterfall makes the most sense in seaside if anything
The focus of the expansion contests is first and foremost on mechanics. The theme should ideally match, but that is secondary.
If the focus would be on theme, I could post a Night card named Pirate" that I play with and that uses Spoils and the Treasure Chest.

I think Caravan fits the secondary theme of trade/commerce. Embargo, Smugglers, Warehouse, Caravan, Bazaar, Merchant Ship all fit this theme.
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anordinaryman

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #105 on: October 12, 2020, 02:12:23 pm »
+1

Quote
Sunken Treasure - Action - $5
+2 Cards
Choose one: Put a gold from the Supply and the top card of your deck face up on your Native Village mat; or put up to 3 cards from your Native Village Mat on top of your deck in any order.

This submission deals with three sub-themes of Seaside -- Gold Gaining, top of the deck, and mats. It may look like this combos excellently with Native Village except those cards together mean your hand size stays exactly same.
Neat idea, but I think it might be weak for $5. Maybe have the second option be "Take three cards from your Native Village mat, putting one in your hand, and the rest on top of your deck" ?
Also, I didn't realize Seaside had a gold-gaining subtheme.

Nice idea. That makes it a Smithy+ (draws 2 cards and the third card you have some choice over), which seems great for a 3. And I could simplify the ordering... I'm going to do that!

Yeah, technically the sub-them is conditional gold gaining-- Explorer and Treasure Map (and to some extent Smugglers specifically allows up to 6). This sort of fits in that the Conditional clause is you need to play Sunken Treasure twice.

The only other "original" expansion that has two gold gainers is Hinterlands. Even with the new expansions, no other expansion has two action cards that gain golds, though there are events that do it. But at the time it was pretty cool like, wow I can directly gain golds and you feel like a Pirate in a way.
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anordinaryman

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #106 on: October 12, 2020, 02:13:25 pm »
+1

Updated Submission



Quote
Sunken Treasure - Action - $5
+2 Cards
Choose one: take up to two cards from your Native Village Mat, putting one in your hand and the other on top of your deck; or put a gold from the Supply and the top card of your deck face up on your Native Village mat.
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Xen3k

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #107 on: October 12, 2020, 05:58:32 pm »
0

Closing Submissions

I will try and get the results posted tonight.
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LordBaphomet

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #108 on: October 12, 2020, 07:41:53 pm »
+1

Closing Submissions

I will try and get the results posted tonight.

I completely forgot to put a price on mine so if it could just be taken out of the consideration? Thanks.
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Xen3k

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #109 on: October 12, 2020, 08:08:48 pm »
0

Closing Submissions

I will try and get the results posted tonight.

I completely forgot to put a price on mine so if it could just be taken out of the consideration? Thanks.

Fair enough. For what it is worth, I did like the effect. If you do care to complete it, be sure to share it!
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Xen3k

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #110 on: October 12, 2020, 09:16:38 pm »
+4

Results for Contest round #3: Seaside

First I would like to say that this was quite a challenge as I am not sure I have a completely firm grasp on how a card being a duration effects the power level of a card. I tried to explain my reasoning to the best of my ability when relevant, but some of this came down to my preference in design and my expectations from Dominion.

Now, all entries except one dealt directly with the theme of "cards whose abilities affect future turns", and all of them do fit the flavor of Seaside. There are some really innovative uses of mats and one card that put those coin tokens to use. I think all the entries have merit, and what I do criticize is intended to be constructive. I had real trouble only picking only three entries, so made it three runners up. So, without further preamble.


Dispatch by X-tra
Quote
$5 - Action-Duration
Set aside a card from your hand. At the start of your next turn, trash that card and gain a card to your hand costing up to $2 more than it.

Seaside is lacking a remodeler, and this is a nifty one. I like this at $5, kind of like a suped-up Transmogriphy. No real criticisms here.


Drawbridge by LibraryAdventurer
Quote
$3 - Action-Duration
+2 cards. At the start of your next turn, you may trash a card from your hand.
-
While this is in play, when another player plays an attack, its player may discard a card. If they don't, you are unaffected by the attack.

With so many aggressive Attack cards in Seaside, another Lighthouse may be warranted. There is also a lack of quality trashers, and this is definitely a good one. As worded, if multiple opponents have a Drawbridge in play I would have to discard a card for each Drawbridge I want to bypass. A very cool effect.


Exploration Ship by D782802859
Quote
$4 - Action-Duration
Choose one: +2 Cards or +$2. At the start of your next turn, get the other choice.

This is a cool mash-up of Merchant Ship and a nerfed Wharf. Overlooking the redundancy of including this in Seaside, I think it is an interesting case study to try and gauge what the appropriate price for Merchant Ship would be. This being a middle ground between the two, and both being $5, the obvious take is that this should also be $5. I do think this should be $5, but my reasoning is more in line with the options this provides to the player and comparing it to newer contemporaries such as Den Of Sin. Though Den Of Sin is a bit better being non-terminal and gained to your hand, just playing Exploration Ship as a terminal Silver with a Den Of Sin effect attached still feels like a $5 cost card.


Ferryman by gambit05
Quote
$4 - Action-Duration
Trash up to 2 cards from your hand and put that many Coin tokens on this.
At the start of your next turn: Remove the Coin tokens, for +$1 each.

A very nice trasher that puts the coin tokens to good use. Seaside does lack an effective trasher and this is quite good.


Frigate by grep
Quote
$5 - Action-Attack-Duration
Now and at start of your next turn:
+$1
Each other player discards down to 3 cards.

Seaside has a lot of really aggressive attack cards, adding another is not unreasonable, but I would hesitate on doing that. The card is great though. I think it is priced correctly and the single coin a turn is appropriate as the consecutive Militias is pretty darn brutal. Good card.



Importer by NoMoreFun
Quote
$6 - Action-Duration
At the start of your next turn, gain a card costing up to $5.
-
While this is in play, when you gain a card, you may put it in your hand.

This is the first of the Gainers from the submissions. These seems very strong, just with the gain-to-hand effect. While the Duration tag will slow it down, it seems to be an Artisan+. I think it would still be quite good even if it could only gain $4 cost cards. I think the gain-to-hand effect is the most interesting thing about the card, so I would hate to see that removed.


Port Inspector by aladdinstardust
Quote
$4 - Action-Duration
+$2
At the start of your next turn, you may trash or gain to hand a card from your Island mat.
-
While this is in play, when you gain a card, put it on your Island mat.

Nice use of the Island mat. Another good defensive card to protect against the aggressively priced junking cards in Seaside. It is interesting how this slows down your deck if you are not careful. I do not know if I would get this early game if there were cheap +Buys in the game, but greening with a Port Inspector seems to be something I would want to try out. Probably going to try and bring this to my game group.


Royal Expedition by Jonatan Djurachkovitch
Quote
$6 - Action-Duration
Now and at the start of your next turn, you may play an Action card from your hand twice.

The duration Throne Room I never knew I wanted! I think it is safely priced at $6, but may actually be ok at $5 due to the potential misses that can happen on the second turn and the slowness of it. As is, I really like the clean and simple design.


Shipbuilder by Aquila
Quote
$4 - Action Duration
Choose one: gain a card onto your deck costing up to $3; or gain a card onto your deck costing up to $5.
At the start of your next turn, get the other choice.

Another gainer that can snag $5 cost cards, this time putting them on top of your deck. It is a really cool concept to have a single card gain two cards over the course of two turns, Gardens would love this card. I do think this is undercosted as-is. I could be gauging the nerf it being a Duration has on the card, but this appears to be an Artisan variant at least.


Shipyard by alion8me
Quote
$4 - Action-Duration
+1 Action
At the start of your next turn, discard a card from your hand and gain a card costing up to $5.

The final generic gainer submitted, and this seems more reasonable at $4. This is like an alt version of Cobbler or Feast without the self trashing. In addition to being slow you also have to discard a card to gain a card. This is perfectly reasonable as it is, in my opinion.


Steamboat by grrgrrgrr
Quote
$4 - Action-Duration
+5 Cards
+1 Buy
At the start of your next turn, discard 2 cards.

My first thought when I saw this was that it was a reverse Tactician. Now, Tactician gives more on the turn it triggers with the built in Village, but that comparison is still there, so seeing this at $4 is pretty surprising. Now I realize the drawback on Steamboat is pretty steep, but Tacticians can also be steep. I think Steamboat is a very Kingdom dependant card and in the right setup it is pretty bonkers. On average I think I would only buy a single one early to guarantee a nice 9 card double buy turn. If there were any hand-size Attack cards, I don't think I would get it. The design seems to really be leaning on the penalty of discarding two cards the next turn to balance its power, and I personally don't like this severe of a penalty as I would be afraid of turning the card into a noob-trap. The nice thing about Tactician is that it sets up a big turn that you can anticipate and plan out, Steamboat sets up a dead turn if you are not careful and that can feel bad. I personally would have liked this more at $5 drawing 4 cards and discarding 1 the next turn like a slow Council Room with a more manageable draw-back than current. As-is, I think it will be too cheap on average, and even at $5 its power level will fluctuate wildly based on the rest of the Kingdom because of that drawback.


Sunken Treasure by anordinaryman
Quote
$5 - Action
+2 Cards
Choose one: take up to two cards from your Native Village Mat, putting one in your hand and the other on top of your deck; or put a gold from the Supply and the top card of your deck face up on your Native Village mat.

Very cool terminal draw card that uses the Native Village mat for storage. The potential interactions with Native Vilalge is really interesting. I think this is priced right at $5 as it is not always a Smithy, but gains you nice things off your mat when it is.


Waterfall by silverspawn
Quote
$5 - Action
Discard up to 3 cards from your hand. +2 Cards per card discarded. Each other player may discard a card, to draw a card.

This does not really embody the "abilities affect future turns" theme of Seaside, and the filter role is being handled quite well by Warehouse (and Navigator I guess). This reminds me of a terminal Shepherd that allows you to discard more than Victory cards. I think the price at $5 is perfectly reasonable, being able to dig 6 cards deep is not to be scoffed at. I am not sure if the penalty of allowing each other player discard a card to draw is needed. Later in the game, especially if there is deck thinning in the Kingdom, I can see the possibility of it becoming more difficult to get the full effect from Waterfall.


Runners Up
Sunken Treasure by anordinaryman
Dispatch by X-tra
Ferryman by gambit05

WINNER
Port Inspector by aladdinstardust

I could have easily added a couple more or so to the runners up list! Thank you for participating!
« Last Edit: October 13, 2020, 10:23:10 am by Xen3k »
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aladdinstardust

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #111 on: October 12, 2020, 10:14:11 pm »
+2

Thank you to Xen3k for Judging! And congratulations to all the runners-up and submitters!

Contest round #4: Alchemy

I am actually quite excited to be judging this one, because I am one of those rare birds who enjoys this expansion.

The themes of Alchemy are Potion based cards and a focus on Action cards. Donald wanted to make cards that people would want multiple of since they were going to have a Potion in their deck - so lots of +Actions, cards that reward actions, and a Treasure that needs lots of cards to really shine. And apparently Herbalist. Hm.

I will be judging based on how well your card entices players to buy multiples, how it interacts with Actions (if it does), and I would also enjoy seeing ways in which your designs could make the Potion mechanic a bit more accessible.

I will give a 24-hour warning in 6 days and commence judging the following day.

Good luck to all designers!
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Jonatan Djurachkovitch

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #112 on: October 13, 2020, 01:13:12 am »
0

In the future, when we've done all expansions we could continue with hypothetical crossover expansions, for example Adventures/Nocturne (night-reserve cards!), or Cornucopia/Hinterlands (when gain, if you have at least 5 differently named cards in play).
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Jonatan Djurachkovitch

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #113 on: October 13, 2020, 01:46:50 am »
0

Here's my submission, might change it out later.
Quote
Homunculus
$3P - Action
+1 Action
+3 Cards
+1 Buy
Choose one: Trash a Treasure card from your hand, or trash this.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2020, 01:48:37 am by Jonatan Djurachkovitch »
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gambit05

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #114 on: October 13, 2020, 04:45:59 am »
+1

My submission:



Astrologer
$3P Action
Quote

+1 Action

Choose one: Return a
Potion from your hand to
          the Supply, for +3 Cards;           
or +1 Buy and gain a
Potion to your hand.

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spineflu

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #115 on: October 13, 2020, 09:18:58 am »
0


Quote
Aonbarr $4⚗ Action
+4 Cards
You may trash a card from your hand.
You may return this to its pile for +2 Actions.
-
Instead of paying this card's cost, you may pay ⚗⚗; if you do, +1 Buy and +$2

an older card of mine but one explicitly for including in Alchemy. Gives a reason to have multiple potions. name is a mythological horse from irish mythology
« Last Edit: October 16, 2020, 09:05:50 am by spineflu »
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aladdinstardust

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #116 on: October 15, 2020, 06:25:29 pm »
+1

In the future, when we've done all expansions we could continue with hypothetical crossover expansions, for example Adventures/Nocturne (night-reserve cards!), or Cornucopia/Hinterlands (when gain, if you have at least 5 differently named cards in play).

I just finished a set a little while ago called Dominion: Odyssey, which visits all the past sets and (most of the) mechanics. At first I thought those cards would fit perfectly for the theme of this thread, but then I realized that almost all of my cards overlapped sets. I think mixing expansions is super interesting, and it certainly opens up a lot of design possibility.
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herw

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #117 on: October 16, 2020, 01:35:21 am »
+1

Alchemist's Laboratory


     
Quote
Alchemist's Laboratory $1P Action
+1 Card
+1 Action

Play a Potion or a Silver. If you do, +1 Card and gain a Gold.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2020, 02:23:25 am by herw »
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gambit05

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #118 on: October 16, 2020, 02:40:03 am »
+1

Alchemist's Laboratory


     
Quote
Alchemist's Laboratory $1P Action
+1 Card
+1 Action

Play a Potion or a Silver. If you do, +1 Card and gain a Gold.

I think a better wording is:
Quote
You may play a Potion or a Silver, for +1 Card and...

This avoids the cases when a player has a Potion or Silver in hand, but doesn't play it for whatever reason. The other players wouldn't know.
According to my understanding of the spirit of Alchemy is gaining a Gold a bit counter-productive. It would get more difficult to gain and chain Alchemist's Laboratory and/or to buy other cards. How about: "...for +1 Card and +1 Buy"?
+1 Buy seems to be underrepresented in Alchemy; and would fit with the somehow odd cost of Alchemist's Laboratory ($2P might be better anyway).
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herw

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #119 on: October 16, 2020, 03:15:16 am »
0

Alchemist's Laboratory


     
Quote
Alchemist's Laboratory $1P Action
+1 Card
+1 Action

Play a Potion or a Silver. If you do, +1 Card and gain a Gold.

I think a better wording is:
Quote
You may play a Potion or a Silver, for +1 Card and...

This avoids the cases when a player has a Potion or Silver in hand, but doesn't play it for whatever reason. The other players wouldn't know.
According to my understanding of the spirit of Alchemy is gaining a Gold a bit counter-productive. It would get more difficult to gain and chain Alchemist's Laboratory and/or to buy other cards. How about: "...for +1 Card and +1 Buy"?
+1 Buy seems to be underrepresented in Alchemy; and would fit with the somehow odd cost of Alchemist's Laboratory ($2P might be better anyway).

I don't want to change to  a +1 buy because it would be too near to your nice suggestion Astrologer and would have to have higher costs. So I stay with +1 Gold (historically the mainspring of Alchemists ;) ).
Why no +1 buy? I always play Alchemy with these basic cards:



Alchemist's Laboratory


     
Quote
Alchemist's Laboratory $1P Action
+1 Card
+1 Action

You may play a Potion or a Silver, for +1 Card and gain a Gold.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2020, 03:26:27 am by herw »
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Aquila

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #120 on: October 16, 2020, 03:27:38 am »
+1

I've hardly ever played with alchemy, but here's something that seems to fit:
Quote
Catalyst - Action, PP cost.
+1 Action
+1 Buy

Play any number of Treasures from your hand. + $1 per Potion you played.
Draw until you have 6 cards in hand.
Alchemy probably doesn't need more draw though.
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gambit05

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #121 on: October 16, 2020, 03:59:53 am »
0

I don't want to change to  a +1 buy because it would be too near to your nice suggestion Astrologer and would have to have higher costs. So I stay with +1 Gold (historically the mainspring of Alchemists ;) ).
Why no +1 buy? I always play Alchemy with these basic cards:



Alchemist's Laboratory


     
Quote
Alchemist's Laboratory $1P Action
+1 Card
+1 Action

You may play a Potion or a Silver, for +1 Card and gain a Gold.

Honestly, I totally forgot that Astrologer gives an optional +1 Buy.
Despite that, I can't see what argues against +1 Buy in relation to your Fan-made Victory cards.
Also, keep in mind that this contest is about presenting a card that fits to the official Alchemy expansion, not to Fan-made cards that nobody else uses.
I am not sure about the English wording, i.e. whether it should be:
"...and to gain a Gold."

I've hardly ever played with alchemy, but here's something that seems to fit:
Quote
Catalyst - Action, PP cost.
+1 Action
+1 Buy

Play any number of Treasures from your hand. + $1 per Potion you played.
Draw until you have 6 cards in hand.
Alchemy probably doesn't need more draw though.

That looks interesting.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2020, 04:01:07 am by gambit05 »
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silverspawn

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #122 on: October 16, 2020, 04:02:05 am »
0

It should be 'to' gain a gold.
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infangthief

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #123 on: October 16, 2020, 04:59:54 am »
0

Here's my submission, might change it out later.
Quote
Homunculus
$3P - Action
+1 Action
+3 Cards
+1 Buy
Choose one: Trash a Treasure card from your hand, or trash this.

I think normally "Choose" means you can choose an option even if you then fail to be able to do it.
Is that the intention here? Can I choose the "trash a Treasure card" option, then say, oh I don't have any Treasure cards in my hand?
Or is the intention closer to Death Cart?
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herw

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Re: Set Expansion Contest
« Reply #124 on: October 16, 2020, 05:16:46 am »
+1

ok, ok, ok ...

Alchemist's Laboratory

     
Quote
Alchemist's Laboratory $2P Action
+1 Card
+1 Action

You may play a Potion or a Silver for +1 Card and +1 Buy.

Maybe that the costs of $2P are too high? ... because you have to have potion or silver on your hand too.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2020, 12:22:34 am by herw »
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